Re: Apple pulls Airport routers, possible refresh coming

[Sabahattin Gucukoglu]

Well, good to hear that the Ubiquiti gear was accessible, at any rate.  I’m not 
exactly in love with the idea of a dedicated configuration app, but since Apple 
do it, I probably shouldn’t complain, even though I do because it’s just plain 
wrong and dammit this is why we have standards. :)

Yes, AirPort supports PPPoE, and yes it can authenticate to a VDSL service and 
do NAT+DHCP if you want.  You just have to provide the Ethernet-to-PTM bridge, 
i.e. Draytek.  They operate in NZ as well, so presumably they have modems and 
firmware for your providers.  Check ‘em out. draytek.co.nz and they’re 
showcasing the V130.

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RE: Apple pulls Airport routers, possible refresh coming

[Simon Fogarty]

Sadam,

Sounds great, as for the Ubiquity interface, I can say that the Rocket M2 is 
very usable, it has a couple of issues with jaws, but I can't say much more 
about it with voiceover.

 It is however useable with windows.

 If the airport extreme can be made to use pppoe, I take it then it could be 
used to connect directly to my service provider through my fiber connection or 
am I still going to need something else in the middle to connect to the ISP?





-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Sabahattin Gucukoglu
Sent: Tuesday, 31 May 2016 5:45 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Apple pulls Airport routers, possible refresh coming

Eu-bloody-reka!

http://www.chriscolotti.us/technology/apple-airports-dirty-little-secret/

Recent firmware that supports extending guest networks to extender AirPort base 
stations do so using VLAN 1003.  Awesome.  So I can do the whole Internet-only 
guest networks thing even without a primary AirPort, after all.  Heck, I can 
even do the whole captive portal thing, charge money, etc, etc, if I want.  
Learn something new every day, and really, it’s very cool.

Now, do I really want to?  That’s the question. :)

Client isolation for guest networks is missing in action for a while, but VLANs 
do at least assure separation of the traffic inside and outside the tagged 
broadcast domains.  So, your guest clients can talk to each other and the ‘net, 
but not to your stuff.  I think, now that guest networks can extend over the 
wire, it’s fair to say that client isolation loses much of its effectiveness, 
because you have to capture broadcast traffic too and for this to work the DHCP 
server (which uses broadcast) needs to be reachable over the wire.  I wouldn’t 
use this for separating stuff on your own network, but I’d be more than happy 
to let promiscuous (i.e. unknown and untrusted) clients use this to share the 
same broadcast domain and the Internet.  Now, if only Apple would let you 
specify the VLAN IDs directly …

I’ve heard great things about Ubiquiti in recent times, indeed most recently 
because of their more attractive pricing, but one of the not-so-great things 
I’ve heard is that they use a Java desktop app for configuration.  My geek 
heart might be lusting after more configuration flexibility, but not, I think, 
to that extent. :)  Maybe, if I ever have a real need to leave Apple, but right 
now I really don’t.  AirPort works, really, it’s easy, fast and reliable, and 
in the context of my needs on my own trusted network, it’s nothing that can’t 
be made up for with a good firewall upstream.  I think that’s the way to go if 
you want to take control.

Kawal has the AirPort Extreme doing PPPoE, yes.  The Draytek v130 is acting as 
a pure PTM (i.e. Ethernet) bridge with VDSL2.  BT OpenReach provides a “Generic 
ethernet” service; tag your packets with VLAN 101, and it’s tunnelled direct to 
your ISP RAS infrastructure.  Sadly BT (which I believe is short for “British 
Tossers”) insist that your equipment support baby jumbo frames (MTU 1508 
including PPPoE) so the tunnel fits in their gigantic MPLS infrastructure at 
the expense of those pesky standards, but fortunately Apple makes up for the 
loss of large packets by silently MSS clamping to 1400 bytes, so it all works 
itself out in the end for most applications that people care about.  Well, 
except IPv6 is broken, of course.

Gosh.  That was an unnecessarily technical post all round, wasn’t it? Sorry 
about that. :)

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RE: Apple pulls Airport routers, possible refresh coming

[Simon Fogarty]

I use to do that  around my neighbourhood when I was a student, I setup a wifi 
network that I sold off access to for international students,
Had great coverage and about 15 students at a time using it with some qos 
config from my AP's 

Good way to make some extra cash when a student. 

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Scott Granados
Sent: Tuesday, 31 May 2016 1:00 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Apple pulls Airport routers, possible refresh coming

Agreed, I used an M5 rocket as well.  With their gear I’ve been able to clear 
50 miles or more port to point so it doesn’t surprise me you got fairly far.  
Florida in the US has interesting geography where it is extremely flat.  I 
think the highest point above sea level is 8 feet.  Because it’s so flat 
signals carry for miles and miles where they would not in other topographical 
conditions.  So we could set up point to point wireless links over miles to 
light up neighborhoods and then use smaller hardware to distribute the signals 
around the local community.

> On May 30, 2016, at 5:54 AM, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
> 
> Hi Scott,
> 
> I've got a ubiquity M2 rocket and 13Dbl omni directional antenna on my roof 
> putting out a signal not quite strong enough to get to my place of work, but 
> the high school across the road from my house gets it and my neaces made use 
> of it when they were at the school, Ubiquity is great stuff and reasonably 
> priced and very easy to use 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Scott Granados
> Sent: Monday, 30 May 2016 4:24 PM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: Apple pulls Airport routers, possible refresh coming
> 
> By the way, if you want enterprise features like that for non enterprise 
> prices, hell even lower than Apple prices check out Ubiquiti Unifi access 
> points.
> http://www.ubnt.com
> 
> they are about $100 or so per unit and support all sorts of protocols 
> including AC, they support captive portal, roaming profiles, VLAN tagging and 
> much much more.
> 
> 
>> On May 29, 2016, at 11:38 AM, Sabahattin Gucukoglu  wrote:
>> 
>> Yeah, I’m with Tim here.  There are of course competitors, but to me, speed 
>> isn’t everything and you can more than make up for any potential 
>> inflexibility in the router part of the AirPort by just using it as a pure 
>> bridging access-point, at which it’s very good.  The only thing I wish 
>> they’d bring back is SNMP support, and I wish the “Guest Network” could use 
>> a VLAN tag and not be limited just to a NAT setup.  Those features are of 
>> course “Enterprise”-grade, but I’m sure they aren’t too much to ask for a 
>> product like this, seeing as how Apple were once targeting them at small 
>> businesses.
>> 
>> JMO, of course, YMMV, and all that.
>> 
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Re: Apple pulls Airport routers, possible refresh coming

[Sabahattin Gucukoglu]

Eu-bloody-reka!

http://www.chriscolotti.us/technology/apple-airports-dirty-little-secret/

Recent firmware that supports extending guest networks to extender AirPort base 
stations do so using VLAN 1003.  Awesome.  So I can do the whole Internet-only 
guest networks thing even without a primary AirPort, after all.  Heck, I can 
even do the whole captive portal thing, charge money, etc, etc, if I want.  
Learn something new every day, and really, it’s very cool.

Now, do I really want to?  That’s the question. :)

Client isolation for guest networks is missing in action for a while, but VLANs 
do at least assure separation of the traffic inside and outside the tagged 
broadcast domains.  So, your guest clients can talk to each other and the ‘net, 
but not to your stuff.  I think, now that guest networks can extend over the 
wire, it’s fair to say that client isolation loses much of its effectiveness, 
because you have to capture broadcast traffic too and for this to work the DHCP 
server (which uses broadcast) needs to be reachable over the wire.  I wouldn’t 
use this for separating stuff on your own network, but I’d be more than happy 
to let promiscuous (i.e. unknown and untrusted) clients use this to share the 
same broadcast domain and the Internet.  Now, if only Apple would let you 
specify the VLAN IDs directly …

I’ve heard great things about Ubiquiti in recent times, indeed most recently 
because of their more attractive pricing, but one of the not-so-great things 
I’ve heard is that they use a Java desktop app for configuration.  My geek 
heart might be lusting after more configuration flexibility, but not, I think, 
to that extent. :)  Maybe, if I ever have a real need to leave Apple, but right 
now I really don’t.  AirPort works, really, it’s easy, fast and reliable, and 
in the context of my needs on my own trusted network, it’s nothing that can’t 
be made up for with a good firewall upstream.  I think that’s the way to go if 
you want to take control.

Kawal has the AirPort Extreme doing PPPoE, yes.  The Draytek v130 is acting as 
a pure PTM (i.e. Ethernet) bridge with VDSL2.  BT OpenReach provides a “Generic 
ethernet” service; tag your packets with VLAN 101, and it’s tunnelled direct to 
your ISP RAS infrastructure.  Sadly BT (which I believe is short for “British 
Tossers”) insist that your equipment support baby jumbo frames (MTU 1508 
including PPPoE) so the tunnel fits in their gigantic MPLS infrastructure at 
the expense of those pesky standards, but fortunately Apple makes up for the 
loss of large packets by silently MSS clamping to 1400 bytes, so it all works 
itself out in the end for most applications that people care about.  Well, 
except IPv6 is broken, of course.

Gosh.  That was an unnecessarily technical post all round, wasn’t it? Sorry 
about that. :)

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Re: Apple pulls Airport routers, possible refresh coming

[Kawal Gucukoglu]

I just know that I use my Draytech to connect to my Airport Extreme as I’m not 
sure work with conjunction with Each other.  Sabahattin helped me over Facetime 
as I’m not too technical.  I just followed his instructions.  All I know in the 
Airport Extreme, I specify the Setting for my ISP and for the Draytech, I 
updated the firmware as it’s an ADSL thing as I use Fibroctive connection.  May 
be Sabahattin can explain how the Draytech works in conjunction with the 
Airport Extreme as that is too technical for me and I don’t want to get it 
wrong!

Kawal.
> On 30 May 2016, at 10:44, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
> 
> So Kawal,
>  
> You are using a Draytech device as your modem router and your extreme for 
> your wifi?
>  
> Or is this incorrect?
>  
> Which device are you using to authenticate back to your ISP?
>  
> I’m guessing not your airport extreme?
>  
> Cheers,
>  
>  
> Simon F
>  
>  
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Kawal Gucukoglu
> Sent: Monday, 30 May 2016 8:43 AM
> To: Macvisionaries 
> Subject: Re: Apple pulls Airport routers, possible refresh coming
>  
> I love my Airport Extreme as I told my ISP that I’d not use their routers as 
> I had bad experience with another ISP provider with their Router and so when 
> I moved to my current provider, I was determined to use my own equipment as 
> normally in the past, I’d not get good performance with an ISP Router as the 
> software would not be suitable for the Mac as providers normally provide for 
> Windows PC market and they put software on them which are not very accessible 
> for blind people to use.  I am not highly technical so I prefer things to be 
> as simple as possible and if I use Apple stuff then I’m bound to get support 
> from other Voice Over users on this list if I have a problem and I know that 
> the Airport Extreme works with Voice over.  I know these days ISP routers 
> might work with Apple but the software is not easy to install and something 
> is bound to go wrong.  I have been with my current provider since 2013 and 
> because of my current set up, I’ve never had a problem and things work 
> flawlessly.  I get uninterrupted streaming because of my Draytech and Airport 
> Extreme.
>  
> Kawal.
> On 29 May 2016, at 16:38, Sabahattin Gucukoglu  <mailto:listse...@me.com>> wrote:
>  
> Yeah, I’m with Tim here.  There are of course competitors, but to me, speed 
> isn’t everything and you can more than make up for any potential 
> inflexibility in the router part of the AirPort by just using it as a pure 
> bridging access-point, at which it’s very good.  The only thing I wish they’d 
> bring back is SNMP support, and I wish the “Guest Network” could use a VLAN 
> tag and not be limited just to a NAT setup.  Those features are of course 
> “Enterprise”-grade, but I’m sure they aren’t too much to ask for a product 
> like this, seeing as how Apple were once targeting them at small businesses.
> 
> JMO, of course, YMMV, and all that.
> 
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Re: Apple pulls Airport routers, possible refresh coming

[Scott Granados]

Agreed, I used an M5 rocket as well.  With their gear I’ve been able to clear 
50 miles or more port to point so it doesn’t surprise me you got fairly far.  
Florida in the US has interesting geography where it is extremely flat.  I 
think the highest point above sea level is 8 feet.  Because it’s so flat 
signals carry for miles and miles where they would not in other topographical 
conditions.  So we could set up point to point wireless links over miles to 
light up neighborhoods and then use smaller hardware to distribute the signals 
around the local community.

> On May 30, 2016, at 5:54 AM, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
> 
> Hi Scott,
> 
> I've got a ubiquity M2 rocket and 13Dbl omni directional antenna on my roof 
> putting out a signal not quite strong enough to get to my place of work, but 
> the high school across the road from my house gets it and my neaces made use 
> of it when they were at the school, Ubiquity is great stuff and reasonably 
> priced and very easy to use 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Scott Granados
> Sent: Monday, 30 May 2016 4:24 PM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: Apple pulls Airport routers, possible refresh coming
> 
> By the way, if you want enterprise features like that for non enterprise 
> prices, hell even lower than Apple prices check out Ubiquiti Unifi access 
> points.
> http://www.ubnt.com
> 
> they are about $100 or so per unit and support all sorts of protocols 
> including AC, they support captive portal, roaming profiles, VLAN tagging and 
> much much more.
> 
> 
>> On May 29, 2016, at 11:38 AM, Sabahattin Gucukoglu  wrote:
>> 
>> Yeah, I’m with Tim here.  There are of course competitors, but to me, speed 
>> isn’t everything and you can more than make up for any potential 
>> inflexibility in the router part of the AirPort by just using it as a pure 
>> bridging access-point, at which it’s very good.  The only thing I wish 
>> they’d bring back is SNMP support, and I wish the “Guest Network” could use 
>> a VLAN tag and not be limited just to a NAT setup.  Those features are of 
>> course “Enterprise”-grade, but I’m sure they aren’t too much to ask for a 
>> product like this, seeing as how Apple were once targeting them at small 
>> businesses.
>> 
>> JMO, of course, YMMV, and all that.
>> 
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
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>> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>> 
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
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RE: Apple pulls Airport routers, possible refresh coming

[Simon Fogarty]

Hi Scott,

 I've got a ubiquity M2 rocket and 13Dbl omni directional antenna on my roof 
putting out a signal not quite strong enough to get to my place of work, but 
the high school across the road from my house gets it and my neaces made use of 
it when they were at the school, Ubiquity is great stuff and reasonably priced 
and very easy to use 

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Scott Granados
Sent: Monday, 30 May 2016 4:24 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Apple pulls Airport routers, possible refresh coming

By the way, if you want enterprise features like that for non enterprise 
prices, hell even lower than Apple prices check out Ubiquiti Unifi access 
points.
http://www.ubnt.com

they are about $100 or so per unit and support all sorts of protocols including 
AC, they support captive portal, roaming profiles, VLAN tagging and much much 
more.


> On May 29, 2016, at 11:38 AM, Sabahattin Gucukoglu  wrote:
> 
> Yeah, I’m with Tim here.  There are of course competitors, but to me, speed 
> isn’t everything and you can more than make up for any potential 
> inflexibility in the router part of the AirPort by just using it as a pure 
> bridging access-point, at which it’s very good.  The only thing I wish they’d 
> bring back is SNMP support, and I wish the “Guest Network” could use a VLAN 
> tag and not be limited just to a NAT setup.  Those features are of course 
> “Enterprise”-grade, but I’m sure they aren’t too much to ask for a product 
> like this, seeing as how Apple were once targeting them at small businesses.
> 
> JMO, of course, YMMV, and all that.
> 
> -- 
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RE: Apple pulls Airport routers, possible refresh coming

[Simon Fogarty]

So Kawal,

You are using a Draytech device as your modem router and your extreme for your 
wifi?

Or is this incorrect?

Which device are you using to authenticate back to your ISP?

I’m guessing not your airport extreme?

Cheers,


Simon F


From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Kawal Gucukoglu
Sent: Monday, 30 May 2016 8:43 AM
To: Macvisionaries 
Subject: Re: Apple pulls Airport routers, possible refresh coming

I love my Airport Extreme as I told my ISP that I’d not use their routers as I 
had bad experience with another ISP provider with their Router and so when I 
moved to my current provider, I was determined to use my own equipment as 
normally in the past, I’d not get good performance with an ISP Router as the 
software would not be suitable for the Mac as providers normally provide for 
Windows PC market and they put software on them which are not very accessible 
for blind people to use.  I am not highly technical so I prefer things to be as 
simple as possible and if I use Apple stuff then I’m bound to get support from 
other Voice Over users on this list if I have a problem and I know that the 
Airport Extreme works with Voice over.  I know these days ISP routers might 
work with Apple but the software is not easy to install and something is bound 
to go wrong.  I have been with my current provider since 2013 and because of my 
current set up, I’ve never had a problem and things work flawlessly.  I get 
uninterrupted streaming because of my Draytech and Airport Extreme.

Kawal.
On 29 May 2016, at 16:38, Sabahattin Gucukoglu 
mailto:listse...@me.com>> wrote:

Yeah, I’m with Tim here.  There are of course competitors, but to me, speed 
isn’t everything and you can more than make up for any potential inflexibility 
in the router part of the AirPort by just using it as a pure bridging 
access-point, at which it’s very good.  The only thing I wish they’d bring back 
is SNMP support, and I wish the “Guest Network” could use a VLAN tag and not be 
limited just to a NAT setup.  Those features are of course “Enterprise”-grade, 
but I’m sure they aren’t too much to ask for a product like this, seeing as how 
Apple were once targeting them at small businesses.

JMO, of course, YMMV, and all that.

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RE: Apple pulls Airport routers, possible refresh coming

[Simon Fogarty]

Express and I can’t fault it infact I think it’s a lot more stable and a better 
signal than the fritzbox I’ve got as my main router from my ISP.

The express is very basic and works great, it’s just a shame they don’t have 
1gig Ethernet connectivity for data transfer oh and AC wifi

From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Kevin Barry
Sent: Sunday, 29 May 2016 5:18 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Apple pulls Airport routers, possible refresh coming

I have an airport extreme, it is not all that it's cracked up to be. Aside from 
its deliberately limited ability to customize, the app on my iPhone often 
crashes, and it repeatedly asks me to enter my password, even during the same 
session.
In addition, it was never that competitive as far as range and speed with other 
models. To me, the reason why I bought it originally, was it is firmware update 
of all, which was not coming back then, but is more common now.

On Sunday, May 29, 2016, Sabahattin Gucukoglu 
mailto:listse...@me.com>> wrote:
Well I hope it’s not that they’re leaving the market, that’s for sure.  I only 
recently had the dubious honour of setting up a Netgear Wi-Fi extender, and 
wish it had been an AirPort.  A new one is not off the cards for me.

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Re: Apple pulls Airport routers, possible refresh coming

[Scott Granados]

Two problems you’re running in to.

The peers between Time Warner and Sprint are congested, the WiFi calling head 
ends are also over subscribed likely and your provider may be reprioritizing 
packets.  Remember your WiFi calling is likely encapsulated in a VPN so not 
likely to be QOS tagged because the routers in-between can’t see inside the 
packet.  This is unless the type of service bits are set on the calling WiFi 
packets and this only prioritizes outbound anyway.  Your carrier strips off QOS 
bits anyway so it’s all best effort once it hits the public network.


> On May 29, 2016, at 9:04 PM, Brent Harding  wrote:
> 
> Yes, QOS could be useful to have. I've been trying to figure out why whenever 
> I make a phone call through Sprint wifi calling or even my Obihai voip 
> adapter, I get solid receive with very choppy transmission. I don't generally 
> keep anything uploading at the same time, so something's crossed somewhere, 
> possibly even Time Warner in this old building.
>  
>> - Original Message - 
>> From: Kevin Barry <mailto:krba...@gmail.com>
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
>> Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2016 9:30 AM
>> Subject: Re: Apple pulls Airport routers, possible refresh coming
>> 
>> For one, there is no provision for quality of service. It is a router 
>> designed to be simple to set up and run. It does that but at the expense of 
>> losing options. If you are familiar with these sorts of devices I should not 
>> have to tell you this. As for reasonable speeds, that depends on what you 
>> define as reasonable. It works okay but many competitors do better. 
>> 
>> On Sunday, May 29, 2016, Tim Kilburn > <mailto:kilbu...@me.com>> wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>> 
>>> Limited in which respect?  I've not experienced these sorts of crashes that 
>>> you're speaking of and had much more reliable and better performance than 
>>> many other products.  Have also set numerous ones up in schools where 
>>> classes of students were accessing them without issue and with reasonable 
>>> performance.  Interesting that people have differing experiences with 
>>> similar units.
>>> 
>>> Later...
>>> 
>>> Tim Kilburn
>>> Fort McMurray, AB Canada 
>>> 
>>> On May 28, 2016, at 23:17, Kevin Barry < <>krba...@gmail.com 
>>> <mailto:krba...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I have an airport extreme, it is not all that it's cracked up to be. Aside 
>>> from its deliberately limited ability to customize, the app on my iPhone 
>>> often crashes, and it repeatedly asks me to enter my password, even during 
>>> the same session.
>>> In addition, it was never that competitive as far as range and speed with 
>>> other models. To me, the reason why I bought it originally, was it is 
>>> firmware update of all, which was not coming back then, but is more common 
>>> now.
>>> 
>>> On Sunday, May 29, 2016, Sabahattin Gucukoglu < <>listse...@me.com 
>>> <mailto:listse...@me.com>> wrote:
>>>> Well I hope it’s not that they’re leaving the market, that’s for sure.  I 
>>>> only recently had the dubious honour of setting up a Netgear Wi-Fi 
>>>> extender, and wish it had been an AirPort.  A new one is not off the cards 
>>>> for me.
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>>> Visionaries list.
>>>> 
>>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or 
>>>> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the 
>>>> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>>> 
>>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara 
>>>> Quinn - you can reach Cara at  <>caraqu...@caraquinn.com 
>>>> <mailto:caraqu...@caraquinn.com>
>>>> 
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>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ 
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>>>> <m

Re: Apple pulls Airport routers, possible refresh coming

[Scott Granados]

By the way, if you want enterprise features like that for non enterprise 
prices, hell even lower than Apple prices check out Ubiquiti Unifi access 
points.
http://www.ubnt.com

they are about $100 or so per unit and support all sorts of protocols including 
AC, they support captive portal, roaming profiles, VLAN tagging and much much 
more.


> On May 29, 2016, at 11:38 AM, Sabahattin Gucukoglu  wrote:
> 
> Yeah, I’m with Tim here.  There are of course competitors, but to me, speed 
> isn’t everything and you can more than make up for any potential 
> inflexibility in the router part of the AirPort by just using it as a pure 
> bridging access-point, at which it’s very good.  The only thing I wish they’d 
> bring back is SNMP support, and I wish the “Guest Network” could use a VLAN 
> tag and not be limited just to a NAT setup.  Those features are of course 
> “Enterprise”-grade, but I’m sure they aren’t too much to ask for a product 
> like this, seeing as how Apple were once targeting them at small businesses.
> 
> JMO, of course, YMMV, and all that.
> 
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Re: Apple pulls Airport routers, possible refresh coming

[Brent Harding]

I wonder if these guest network features really do separation as well as 
using several routers would? Does not having that Vlan tag mean that 
whatever nasties are on a guests laptop easily find their way across the gap 
and hit your stuff anyways? From what I have been reading lately, it is 
better to put your little small devices like the cameras, thermostats, etc, 
on the guest side in order to limit them practically to their own sandbox 
and the Internet.


- Original Message - 
From: "Sabahattin Gucukoglu" 

To: 
Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2016 10:38 AM
Subject: Re: Apple pulls Airport routers, possible refresh coming


Yeah, I’m with Tim here.  There are of course competitors, but to me, speed 
isn’t everything and you can more than make up for any potential 
inflexibility in the router part of the AirPort by just using it as a pure 
bridging access-point, at which it’s very good.  The only thing I wish they’d 
bring back is SNMP support, and I wish the “Guest Network” could use a VLAN 
tag and not be limited just to a NAT setup.  Those features are of course 
“Enterprise”-grade, but I’m sure they aren’t too much to ask for a product 
like this, seeing as how Apple were once targeting them at small businesses.


JMO, of course, YMMV, and all that.

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Re: Apple pulls Airport routers, possible refresh coming

[Brent Harding]

Yes, QOS could be useful to have. I've been trying to figure out why whenever I 
make a phone call through Sprint wifi calling or even my Obihai voip adapter, I 
get solid receive with very choppy transmission. I don't generally keep 
anything uploading at the same time, so something's crossed somewhere, possibly 
even Time Warner in this old building.

  - Original Message - 
  From: Kevin Barry 
  To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2016 9:30 AM
  Subject: Re: Apple pulls Airport routers, possible refresh coming


  For one, there is no provision for quality of service. It is a router 
designed to be simple to set up and run. It does that but at the expense of 
losing options. If you are familiar with these sorts of devices I should not 
have to tell you this. As for reasonable speeds, that depends on what you 
define as reasonable. It works okay but many competitors do better. 

  On Sunday, May 29, 2016, Tim Kilburn  wrote:

Hi,


Limited in which respect?  I've not experienced these sorts of crashes that 
you're speaking of and had much more reliable and better performance than many 
other products.  Have also set numerous ones up in schools where classes of 
students were accessing them without issue and with reasonable performance.  
Interesting that people have differing experiences with similar units.


Later...


Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada 


On May 28, 2016, at 23:17, Kevin Barry  wrote:


I have an airport extreme, it is not all that it's cracked up to be. Aside 
from its deliberately limited ability to customize, the app on my iPhone often 
crashes, and it repeatedly asks me to enter my password, even during the same 
session.
In addition, it was never that competitive as far as range and speed with 
other models. To me, the reason why I bought it originally, was it is firmware 
update of all, which was not coming back then, but is more common now.

On Sunday, May 29, 2016, Sabahattin Gucukoglu  wrote:

  Well I hope it’s not that they’re leaving the market, that’s for sure.  I 
only recently had the dubious honour of setting up a Netgear Wi-Fi extender, 
and wish it had been an AirPort.  A new one is not off the cards for me.

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Re: Apple pulls Airport routers, possible refresh coming

[Kawal Gucukoglu]

I love my Airport Extreme as I told my ISP that I’d not use their routers as I 
had bad experience with another ISP provider with their Router and so when I 
moved to my current provider, I was determined to use my own equipment as 
normally in the past, I’d not get good performance with an ISP Router as the 
software would not be suitable for the Mac as providers normally provide for 
Windows PC market and they put software on them which are not very accessible 
for blind people to use.  I am not highly technical so I prefer things to be as 
simple as possible and if I use Apple stuff then I’m bound to get support from 
other Voice Over users on this list if I have a problem and I know that the 
Airport Extreme works with Voice over.  I know these days ISP routers might 
work with Apple but the software is not easy to install and something is bound 
to go wrong.  I have been with my current provider since 2013 and because of my 
current set up, I’ve never had a problem and things work flawlessly.  I get 
uninterrupted streaming because of my Draytech and Airport Extreme.

Kawal.
> On 29 May 2016, at 16:38, Sabahattin Gucukoglu  wrote:
> 
> Yeah, I’m with Tim here.  There are of course competitors, but to me, speed 
> isn’t everything and you can more than make up for any potential 
> inflexibility in the router part of the AirPort by just using it as a pure 
> bridging access-point, at which it’s very good.  The only thing I wish they’d 
> bring back is SNMP support, and I wish the “Guest Network” could use a VLAN 
> tag and not be limited just to a NAT setup.  Those features are of course 
> “Enterprise”-grade, but I’m sure they aren’t too much to ask for a product 
> like this, seeing as how Apple were once targeting them at small businesses.
> 
> JMO, of course, YMMV, and all that.
> 
> -- 
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Re: Apple pulls Airport routers, possible refresh coming

[Sabahattin Gucukoglu]

Yeah, I’m with Tim here.  There are of course competitors, but to me, speed 
isn’t everything and you can more than make up for any potential inflexibility 
in the router part of the AirPort by just using it as a pure bridging 
access-point, at which it’s very good.  The only thing I wish they’d bring back 
is SNMP support, and I wish the “Guest Network” could use a VLAN tag and not be 
limited just to a NAT setup.  Those features are of course “Enterprise”-grade, 
but I’m sure they aren’t too much to ask for a product like this, seeing as how 
Apple were once targeting them at small businesses.

JMO, of course, YMMV, and all that.

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Re: Apple pulls Airport routers, possible refresh coming

[Tim Kilburn]

Hi,

In our tests, albeit not exhaustive nor extremely intricate, it was primarily 
the commercial AP's like Cisco, that out performed our Extremes.  I'll also 
admit that these tests were two or so years ago, so there may have been others 
that surpassed the Extreme.  As a home network unit, I'd still recommend it 
anytime.

Later...

Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On May 29, 2016, at 08:30, Kevin Barry  wrote:

For one, there is no provision for quality of service. It is a router designed 
to be simple to set up and run. It does that but at the expense of losing 
options. If you are familiar with these sorts of devices I should not have to 
tell you this. As for reasonable speeds, that depends on what you define as 
reasonable. It works okay but many competitors do better. 

On Sunday, May 29, 2016, Tim Kilburn mailto:kilbu...@me.com>> 
wrote:
Hi,

Limited in which respect?  I've not experienced these sorts of crashes that 
you're speaking of and had much more reliable and better performance than many 
other products.  Have also set numerous ones up in schools where classes of 
students were accessing them without issue and with reasonable performance.  
Interesting that people have differing experiences with similar units.

Later...

Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On May 28, 2016, at 23:17, Kevin Barry > wrote:

I have an airport extreme, it is not all that it's cracked up to be. Aside from 
its deliberately limited ability to customize, the app on my iPhone often 
crashes, and it repeatedly asks me to enter my password, even during the same 
session.
In addition, it was never that competitive as far as range and speed with other 
models. To me, the reason why I bought it originally, was it is firmware update 
of all, which was not coming back then, but is more common now.

On Sunday, May 29, 2016, Sabahattin Gucukoglu > wrote:
Well I hope it’s not that they’re leaving the market, that’s for sure.  I only 
recently had the dubious honour of setting up a Netgear Wi-Fi extender, and 
wish it had been an AirPort.  A new one is not off the cards for me.

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Re: Apple pulls Airport routers, possible refresh coming

[Kevin Barry]

For one, there is no provision for quality of service. It is a router
designed to be simple to set up and run. It does that but at the expense of
losing options. If you are familiar with these sorts of devices I should
not have to tell you this. As for reasonable speeds, that depends on what
you define as reasonable. It works okay but many competitors do better.

On Sunday, May 29, 2016, Tim Kilburn  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Limited in which respect?  I've not experienced these sorts of crashes
> that you're speaking of and had much more reliable and better performance
> than many other products.  Have also set numerous ones up in schools where
> classes of students were accessing them without issue and with reasonable
> performance.  Interesting that people have differing experiences with
> similar units.
>
> Later...
>
> Tim Kilburn
> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
>
> On May 28, 2016, at 23:17, Kevin Barry  > wrote:
>
> I have an airport extreme, it is not all that it's cracked up to be. Aside
> from its deliberately limited ability to customize, the app on my iPhone
> often crashes, and it repeatedly asks me to enter my password, even during
> the same session.
> In addition, it was never that competitive as far as range and speed with
> other models. To me, the reason why I bought it originally, was it is
> firmware update of all, which was not coming back then, but is more common
> now.
>
> On Sunday, May 29, 2016, Sabahattin Gucukoglu  > wrote:
>
>> Well I hope it’s not that they’re leaving the market, that’s for sure.  I
>> only recently had the dubious honour of setting up a Netgear Wi-Fi
>> extender, and wish it had been an AirPort.  A new one is not off the cards
>> for me.
>>
>> --
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>> Visionaries list.
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>> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>
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>> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>
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>
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Re: Apple pulls Airport routers, possible refresh coming

[Tim Kilburn]

Hi,

Limited in which respect?  I've not experienced these sorts of crashes that 
you're speaking of and had much more reliable and better performance than many 
other products.  Have also set numerous ones up in schools where classes of 
students were accessing them without issue and with reasonable performance.  
Interesting that people have differing experiences with similar units.

Later...

Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On May 28, 2016, at 23:17, Kevin Barry  wrote:

I have an airport extreme, it is not all that it's cracked up to be. Aside from 
its deliberately limited ability to customize, the app on my iPhone often 
crashes, and it repeatedly asks me to enter my password, even during the same 
session.
In addition, it was never that competitive as far as range and speed with other 
models. To me, the reason why I bought it originally, was it is firmware update 
of all, which was not coming back then, but is more common now.

On Sunday, May 29, 2016, Sabahattin Gucukoglu mailto:listse...@me.com>> wrote:
Well I hope it’s not that they’re leaving the market, that’s for sure.  I only 
recently had the dubious honour of setting up a Netgear Wi-Fi extender, and 
wish it had been an AirPort.  A new one is not off the cards for me.

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Re: Apple pulls Airport routers, possible refresh coming

[Kevin Barry]

I have an airport extreme, it is not all that it's cracked up to be. Aside
from its deliberately limited ability to customize, the app on my iPhone
often crashes, and it repeatedly asks me to enter my password, even during
the same session.
In addition, it was never that competitive as far as range and speed with
other models. To me, the reason why I bought it originally, was it is
firmware update of all, which was not coming back then, but is more common
now.

On Sunday, May 29, 2016, Sabahattin Gucukoglu  wrote:

> Well I hope it’s not that they’re leaving the market, that’s for sure.  I
> only recently had the dubious honour of setting up a Netgear Wi-Fi
> extender, and wish it had been an AirPort.  A new one is not off the cards
> for me.
>
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Re: Apple pulls Airport routers, possible refresh coming

[Sabahattin Gucukoglu]

Well I hope it’s not that they’re leaving the market, that’s for sure.  I only 
recently had the dubious honour of setting up a Netgear Wi-Fi extender, and 
wish it had been an AirPort.  A new one is not off the cards for me.

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Apple pulls Airport routers, possible refresh coming

[Alex Hall]

Hi all,
Just FYI, don't buy an Airport router right now. Apple pulled them from its 
retail and online stores yesterday, and with WWDC just a couple weeks away, the 
chances are high that this indicates a refresh. The below article also notes 
that it could be due to changing regulations, but even if that's the case, 
Apple will have to update the routers to comply with said regulations, or get 
out of the router market. If you're looking into an Airport, hold off until 
WWDC, I'd say.
http://www.cultofmac.com/430543/apple-pulls-airport-extreme-and-time-capsule-from-u-s-stores/

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Have a great day,
Alex Hall
mehg...@icloud.com




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