Re: It's not good to believe everything you hear

[Kawal Gucukoglu]

I understand, that people can't afford to buy new hardware all the time, that 
is the case for everyone.
> On 1 Oct 2016, at 17:18, E.T. <ancient.ali...@icloud.com> wrote:
> 
> Kawal,
>   Memory is only a small part of the hardware. There is a great deal more 
> under the hood that plays a part in what a new OS can support. Just as there 
> are advances in hardware design, there are advances in the OS which can be 
> backward compatible only so far.
> 
>   But this does not mean we must buy new hardware if what we have performs to 
> our expectations.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>  Are We Alone in the Universe?
> ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> 
> On 10/1/2016 7:43 AM, Kawal Gucukoglu wrote:
>> Hi.
>> 
>> Just catching up with the group e-mails.  I have a Mac Mini and I Mac but 
>> don't understand why a seven year old MacMini won't work with the latest Mac 
>> Operating system.  I thought as long as you have a working Mac then the new 
>> OS will work on anything providing that it has enough memory to run such as 
>> 4 to 16 of RAM.
>> 
>> I also would not attack anyone just because they could not run the latest 
>> software as it is what we can afford asthe hard ware goes.  These quality 
>> machines are expensive, much so than windows.
>> 
>> Although both of my machines have 32 and 16 of RAM, once these machines have 
>> packed up, no idea if I'll be able to afford new machines as it depends if 
>> I'm still working.
>> 
>> Thanks.
>> 
>> Kawal.
>>> On 30 Sep 2016, at 12:13, Martin Brown <mbrown.bro...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Sorry to hear that Ray. Bit of a bugger as we would say in this part of the 
>>> world. As was said by Tim, I think, in an earlier post, you have a good 
>>> robust device there that should run for years. I shall certainly continue 
>>> to use this little Mini for at least the next two or three years if it 
>>> continues to play ball.
>>> 
>>> At that time, perhaps, I shall invest in the cheapest off-the shelf 
>>> portable Mac that will fulfil my needs. Being able to read emails and 
>>> access the web covers most, if not all, my needs most of the time.
>>> 
>>> By the way Ray, are you really barefooted. Could hunt you up an old pair of 
>>> shoes at this end if it would help.
>>> All the best.
>>> Martin
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Ray Foret jr
>>> Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2016 8:34 PM
>>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>> Subject: Re: It's not good to believe everything you hear
>>> 
>>> Wow, Martin, I saved your message to my Mac.  There’s a good long article 
>>> in that contribution I know there is.  You really could do it if you wanted 
>>> to.
>>> 
>>> I too cannot upgrade to Sierra because this here mid 2009 Mac book pro just 
>>> will not take it.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Sent from my Mac, The only computer with full accessibility for the blind 
>>> built-in
>>> 
>>> Sincerely, The Constantly Barefooted Ray Still a very happy Mac, Verizon 
>>> Wireless iPhone6+ and Apple TV user!
>>> 
>>>> On Sep 29, 2016, at 8:39 AM, Martin Brown <mbrown.bro...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> I quite honestly think that some people don't read their emails before
>>>> responding. Nowhere in my email did I say that Apple was forcing me to
>>>> upgrade to Sierra. The point is that I can't do so even if I
>>>> desperately wanted to without buying a new machine. Indeed, I don't
>>>> agree with something being forced upon anyone. I feel the reference
>>>> here is towards Microsoft and Windows 10. Believe me I am no fan of such 
>>>> an approach.
>>>> 
>>>> However, here is an interesting point. I am running a 5-year-old
>>>> desktop custom built machine. It has 8GB of RAM and a 1TB hard drive.
>>>> Despite the speck remaining the same in every sense, including the
>>>> CPU, Windows 10 is much faster than Windows 7 ever was on this machine.
>>>> 
>>>> So, please feel free to lambast Microsoft. Times they deserve it,
>>>> times they don't. I do not feel protective towards any provider of
>>>> either goods or services. It is simply a financial transaction between 
>>>> them and myself.
>>>> Long gone is the day when providers cared anything abo

Re: It's not good to believe everything you hear

[E.T.]

Kawal,
   Memory is only a small part of the hardware. There is a great deal 
more under the hood that plays a part in what a new OS can support. Just 
as there are advances in hardware design, there are advances in the OS 
which can be backward compatible only so far.


   But this does not mean we must buy new hardware if what we have 
performs to our expectations.


From E.T.'s Keyboard...
  Are We Alone in the Universe?
ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 10/1/2016 7:43 AM, Kawal Gucukoglu wrote:

Hi.

Just catching up with the group e-mails.  I have a Mac Mini and I Mac but don't 
understand why a seven year old MacMini won't work with the latest Mac 
Operating system.  I thought as long as you have a working Mac then the new OS 
will work on anything providing that it has enough memory to run such as 4 to 
16 of RAM.

I also would not attack anyone just because they could not run the latest 
software as it is what we can afford asthe hard ware goes.  These quality 
machines are expensive, much so than windows.

Although both of my machines have 32 and 16 of RAM, once these machines have 
packed up, no idea if I'll be able to afford new machines as it depends if I'm 
still working.

Thanks.

Kawal.

On 30 Sep 2016, at 12:13, Martin Brown <mbrown.bro...@gmail.com> wrote:

Sorry to hear that Ray. Bit of a bugger as we would say in this part of the 
world. As was said by Tim, I think, in an earlier post, you have a good robust 
device there that should run for years. I shall certainly continue to use this 
little Mini for at least the next two or three years if it continues to play 
ball.

At that time, perhaps, I shall invest in the cheapest off-the shelf portable 
Mac that will fulfil my needs. Being able to read emails and access the web 
covers most, if not all, my needs most of the time.

By the way Ray, are you really barefooted. Could hunt you up an old pair of 
shoes at this end if it would help.
All the best.
Martin
-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Ray Foret jr
Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2016 8:34 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: It's not good to believe everything you hear

Wow, Martin, I saved your message to my Mac.  There’s a good long article in 
that contribution I know there is.  You really could do it if you wanted to.

I too cannot upgrade to Sierra because this here mid 2009 Mac book pro just 
will not take it.


Sent from my Mac, The only computer with full accessibility for the blind 
built-in

Sincerely, The Constantly Barefooted Ray Still a very happy Mac, Verizon 
Wireless iPhone6+ and Apple TV user!


On Sep 29, 2016, at 8:39 AM, Martin Brown <mbrown.bro...@gmail.com> wrote:

I quite honestly think that some people don't read their emails before
responding. Nowhere in my email did I say that Apple was forcing me to
upgrade to Sierra. The point is that I can't do so even if I
desperately wanted to without buying a new machine. Indeed, I don't
agree with something being forced upon anyone. I feel the reference
here is towards Microsoft and Windows 10. Believe me I am no fan of such an 
approach.

However, here is an interesting point. I am running a 5-year-old
desktop custom built machine. It has 8GB of RAM and a 1TB hard drive.
Despite the speck remaining the same in every sense, including the
CPU, Windows 10 is much faster than Windows 7 ever was on this machine.

So, please feel free to lambast Microsoft. Times they deserve it,
times they don't. I do not feel protective towards any provider of
either goods or services. It is simply a financial transaction between them and 
myself.
Long gone is the day when providers cared anything about their
customers, and as far as I am concerned, the feeling is mutual.

Despite that however, I strongly feel that people should pay for the
goods and services they receive. This is equally true when the goods
are licenced software. There are those who feel it is fine to share
such products with friends and family members in breach of very clear
guidelines to the contrary, but the less said about that the better.
Thank goodness none of my friends subscribe to this list.

Another responder points out that my Mini is, and will probably
continue to function using El Capitan for a long time. I have no doubt
of that and I have said as much myself. Macs are built too last. It
defeats the purpose however if the hardware cannot be upgraded to
match the needs of the software, at least to some degree, without buying a new 
machine.

Here is something in my appalling ignorance that escapes me. I have a
friend who bought a Mini at the same time as myself. An off the shelf
Mac Mini in late 2009 had a speck of 1GB of RAM and a 128GB hard
drive. He decided to double the Ram to 2GB and stay with the same size
hard drive. I, on the other hand, decided on 4GB of RAM and a 500GB
hard drive. As you can imagine the price difference was significan

Re: It's not good to believe everything you hear

[Anne Robertson]

Hello Kawal,

I’ve had Macs for 20 years now and on several occasions, the processor chips 
have changed meaning that an older Mac couldn’t run the latest OS. The 
processors in these older Macs cannot cope with the new OS, but they can carry 
on running El Capitan with no problem.
We have an old Mac Mini that is still running Snow Leopard!
Cheers,

Anne



> On 1 Oct 2016, at 16:43, Kawal Gucukoglu <kgli...@icloud.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi.
> 
> Just catching up with the group e-mails.  I have a Mac Mini and I Mac but 
> don't understand why a seven year old MacMini won't work with the latest Mac 
> Operating system.  I thought as long as you have a working Mac then the new 
> OS will work on anything providing that it has enough memory to run such as 4 
> to 16 of RAM.
> 
> I also would not attack anyone just because they could not run the latest 
> software as it is what we can afford asthe hard ware goes.  These quality 
> machines are expensive, much so than windows.
> 
> Although both of my machines have 32 and 16 of RAM, once these machines have 
> packed up, no idea if I'll be able to afford new machines as it depends if 
> I'm still working.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Kawal.
>> On 30 Sep 2016, at 12:13, Martin Brown <mbrown.bro...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Sorry to hear that Ray. Bit of a bugger as we would say in this part of the 
>> world. As was said by Tim, I think, in an earlier post, you have a good 
>> robust device there that should run for years. I shall certainly continue to 
>> use this little Mini for at least the next two or three years if it 
>> continues to play ball.
>> 
>> At that time, perhaps, I shall invest in the cheapest off-the shelf portable 
>> Mac that will fulfil my needs. Being able to read emails and access the web 
>> covers most, if not all, my needs most of the time.
>> 
>> By the way Ray, are you really barefooted. Could hunt you up an old pair of 
>> shoes at this end if it would help.
>> All the best.
>> Martin   
>> -Original Message-
>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Ray Foret jr
>> Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2016 8:34 PM
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: Re: It's not good to believe everything you hear
>> 
>> Wow, Martin, I saved your message to my Mac.  There’s a good long article in 
>> that contribution I know there is.  You really could do it if you wanted to.
>> 
>> I too cannot upgrade to Sierra because this here mid 2009 Mac book pro just 
>> will not take it.
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my Mac, The only computer with full accessibility for the blind 
>> built-in
>> 
>> Sincerely, The Constantly Barefooted Ray Still a very happy Mac, Verizon 
>> Wireless iPhone6+ and Apple TV user!
>> 
>>> On Sep 29, 2016, at 8:39 AM, Martin Brown <mbrown.bro...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I quite honestly think that some people don't read their emails before 
>>> responding. Nowhere in my email did I say that Apple was forcing me to 
>>> upgrade to Sierra. The point is that I can't do so even if I 
>>> desperately wanted to without buying a new machine. Indeed, I don't 
>>> agree with something being forced upon anyone. I feel the reference 
>>> here is towards Microsoft and Windows 10. Believe me I am no fan of such an 
>>> approach.
>>> 
>>> However, here is an interesting point. I am running a 5-year-old 
>>> desktop custom built machine. It has 8GB of RAM and a 1TB hard drive. 
>>> Despite the speck remaining the same in every sense, including the 
>>> CPU, Windows 10 is much faster than Windows 7 ever was on this machine.
>>> 
>>> So, please feel free to lambast Microsoft. Times they deserve it, 
>>> times they don't. I do not feel protective towards any provider of 
>>> either goods or services. It is simply a financial transaction between them 
>>> and myself.
>>> Long gone is the day when providers cared anything about their 
>>> customers, and as far as I am concerned, the feeling is mutual.
>>> 
>>> Despite that however, I strongly feel that people should pay for the 
>>> goods and services they receive. This is equally true when the goods 
>>> are licenced software. There are those who feel it is fine to share 
>>> such products with friends and family members in breach of very clear 
>>> guidelines to the contrary, but the less said about that the better. 
>>> Thank goodness none of my friends subscribe to this list.
>>> 
>>

Re: It's not good to believe everything you hear

[Kawal Gucukoglu]

Hi.

Just catching up with the group e-mails.  I have a Mac Mini and I Mac but don't 
understand why a seven year old MacMini won't work with the latest Mac 
Operating system.  I thought as long as you have a working Mac then the new OS 
will work on anything providing that it has enough memory to run such as 4 to 
16 of RAM.

I also would not attack anyone just because they could not run the latest 
software as it is what we can afford asthe hard ware goes.  These quality 
machines are expensive, much so than windows.

Although both of my machines have 32 and 16 of RAM, once these machines have 
packed up, no idea if I'll be able to afford new machines as it depends if I'm 
still working.

Thanks.

Kawal.
> On 30 Sep 2016, at 12:13, Martin Brown <mbrown.bro...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Sorry to hear that Ray. Bit of a bugger as we would say in this part of the 
> world. As was said by Tim, I think, in an earlier post, you have a good 
> robust device there that should run for years. I shall certainly continue to 
> use this little Mini for at least the next two or three years if it continues 
> to play ball.
> 
> At that time, perhaps, I shall invest in the cheapest off-the shelf portable 
> Mac that will fulfil my needs. Being able to read emails and access the web 
> covers most, if not all, my needs most of the time.
> 
> By the way Ray, are you really barefooted. Could hunt you up an old pair of 
> shoes at this end if it would help.
> All the best.
> Martin   
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Ray Foret jr
> Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2016 8:34 PM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: It's not good to believe everything you hear
> 
> Wow, Martin, I saved your message to my Mac.  There’s a good long article in 
> that contribution I know there is.  You really could do it if you wanted to.
> 
> I too cannot upgrade to Sierra because this here mid 2009 Mac book pro just 
> will not take it.
> 
> 
> Sent from my Mac, The only computer with full accessibility for the blind 
> built-in
> 
> Sincerely, The Constantly Barefooted Ray Still a very happy Mac, Verizon 
> Wireless iPhone6+ and Apple TV user!
> 
>> On Sep 29, 2016, at 8:39 AM, Martin Brown <mbrown.bro...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> I quite honestly think that some people don't read their emails before 
>> responding. Nowhere in my email did I say that Apple was forcing me to 
>> upgrade to Sierra. The point is that I can't do so even if I 
>> desperately wanted to without buying a new machine. Indeed, I don't 
>> agree with something being forced upon anyone. I feel the reference 
>> here is towards Microsoft and Windows 10. Believe me I am no fan of such an 
>> approach.
>> 
>> However, here is an interesting point. I am running a 5-year-old 
>> desktop custom built machine. It has 8GB of RAM and a 1TB hard drive. 
>> Despite the speck remaining the same in every sense, including the 
>> CPU, Windows 10 is much faster than Windows 7 ever was on this machine.
>> 
>> So, please feel free to lambast Microsoft. Times they deserve it, 
>> times they don't. I do not feel protective towards any provider of 
>> either goods or services. It is simply a financial transaction between them 
>> and myself.
>> Long gone is the day when providers cared anything about their 
>> customers, and as far as I am concerned, the feeling is mutual.
>> 
>> Despite that however, I strongly feel that people should pay for the 
>> goods and services they receive. This is equally true when the goods 
>> are licenced software. There are those who feel it is fine to share 
>> such products with friends and family members in breach of very clear 
>> guidelines to the contrary, but the less said about that the better. 
>> Thank goodness none of my friends subscribe to this list.
>> 
>> Another responder points out that my Mini is, and will probably 
>> continue to function using El Capitan for a long time. I have no doubt 
>> of that and I have said as much myself. Macs are built too last. It 
>> defeats the purpose however if the hardware cannot be upgraded to 
>> match the needs of the software, at least to some degree, without buying a 
>> new machine.
>> 
>> Here is something in my appalling ignorance that escapes me. I have a 
>> friend who bought a Mini at the same time as myself. An off the shelf 
>> Mac Mini in late 2009 had a speck of 1GB of RAM and a 128GB hard 
>> drive. He decided to double the Ram to 2GB and stay with the same size 
>> hard drive. I, on the other hand, decided on 4GB of RAM an

Re: It's not good to believe everything you hear

[David Chittenden]

One thing I have learned over the years is, if multiple people misunderstand 
what I have said or written, it usually means I have not spoken or written the 
way I think I have. Since I am the one who is attempting to get others to 
understand me, it is upon me to figure out how to state in a way which is 
understood by others. Attacking others because what I wrote led to different 
understanding from what I was attempting to say serves only to alienate me.

David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
Mobile: +64 21 2288 288
Sent from my iPhone

> On 30/09/2016, at 23:44, Martin Brown <mbrown.bro...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> With all due respect David, you are a good example of those who do not read 
> what is written. My 2009 machine is the Mac Mini in question. So, that equals 
> 7 years old.
> 
> My five-year-old machine is a custom built Windows device. So, it was 
> acquired in 2012.
> 
> I do use both operating systems. Therefore, despite the advice from another 
> contributor I have every right to be part of this community. My posts are not 
> intended to be taken as a personal attack on any member of the list. There 
> are those, however, who seem to take any negativity directed towards Apple 
> and its products as an attack on them personally. Ah well, still good to be 
> alive despite all that.
> Have a good day from a very sunny UK.
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of David Chittenden
> Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2016 9:53 PM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: It's not good to believe everything you hear
> 
> 2009 machine in 2016 is a 7 year old machine, not a 5 year old machine.
> 
> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
> Mobile: +64 21 2288 288
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On 30/09/2016, at 02:39, Martin Brown <mbrown.bro...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> I quite honestly think that some people don't read their emails before 
>> responding. Nowhere in my email did I say that Apple was forcing me to 
>> upgrade to Sierra. The point is that I can't do so even if I 
>> desperately wanted to without buying a new machine. Indeed, I don't 
>> agree with something being forced upon anyone. I feel the reference 
>> here is towards Microsoft and Windows 10. Believe me I am no fan of such an 
>> approach.
>> 
>> However, here is an interesting point. I am running a 5-year-old 
>> desktop custom built machine. It has 8GB of RAM and a 1TB hard drive. 
>> Despite the speck remaining the same in every sense, including the 
>> CPU, Windows 10 is much faster than Windows 7 ever was on this machine.
>> 
>> So, please feel free to lambast Microsoft. Times they deserve it, 
>> times they don't. I do not feel protective towards any provider of 
>> either goods or services. It is simply a financial transaction between them 
>> and myself.
>> Long gone is the day when providers cared anything about their 
>> customers, and as far as I am concerned, the feeling is mutual.
>> 
>> Despite that however, I strongly feel that people should pay for the 
>> goods and services they receive. This is equally true when the goods 
>> are licenced software. There are those who feel it is fine to share 
>> such products with friends and family members in breach of very clear 
>> guidelines to the contrary, but the less said about that the better. 
>> Thank goodness none of my friends subscribe to this list.
>> 
>> Another responder points out that my Mini is, and will probably 
>> continue to function using El Capitan for a long time. I have no doubt 
>> of that and I have said as much myself. Macs are built too last. It 
>> defeats the purpose however if the hardware cannot be upgraded to 
>> match the needs of the software, at least to some degree, without buying a 
>> new machine.
>> 
>> Here is something in my appalling ignorance that escapes me. I have a 
>> friend who bought a Mini at the same time as myself. An off the shelf 
>> Mac Mini in late 2009 had a speck of 1GB of RAM and a 128GB hard 
>> drive. He decided to double the Ram to 2GB and stay with the same size 
>> hard drive. I, on the other hand, decided on 4GB of RAM and a 500GB 
>> hard drive. As you can imagine the price difference was significant. 
>> Now, here is the point. He is also running El Capitan with absolutely 
>> no performance difference to my own machine. Like myself, he cannot 
>> upgrade to Sierra, but as we have both light-heartedly laughed, he has 
>> only been half as well screwed as I myself have.
>> 
>> So

Re: It's not good to believe everything you hear

[Tim Kilburn]

A chicken wouldn't last outside either.  A world of contrasts here.  I'm not 
sure that bare feet would have been practical bak in May either when our city 
was under siege by the wildfire we affectionately call the Beast.  Ruddy hot or 
freezing cold.  Tough on bare feet no matter what the animal.

But, I digress.  Topic closed.

Later...

Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Sep 30, 2016, at 14:19, Simon Fogarty <si...@blinky-net.com> wrote:

Chicken!



-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Tim Kilburn
Sent: Saturday, 1 October 2016 2:16 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: It's not good to believe everything you hear

Hi,

Barefoot is not really practical up here in the Great White North.  40 or 50 
below does not load well on bare feet :).

Later...

Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Sep 30, 2016, at 06:34, Ray Foret jr <rforet7...@comcast.net> wrote:

Martin, Shoes should be against the law!!!  Bare feet are the only way to go!!!

Well, so long as I can use Amadeus Pro on this here Mac, it will stay in 
service.  Done with Sound Forge Pro for Mac because it doesn’t meat my audio 
needs.  Good for a while but Amadeus Pro beats it for accessibility and 
flexibility with respect to what a blind person can manipulate with it.


Sent from my Mac, The only computer with full accessibility for the blind 
built-in

Sincerely, The Constantly Barefooted Ray Still a very happy Mac, Verizon 
Wireless iPhone6+ and Apple TV user!

> On Sep 30, 2016, at 6:13 AM, Martin Brown <mbrown.bro...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Sorry to hear that Ray. Bit of a bugger as we would say in this part of the 
> world. As was said by Tim, I think, in an earlier post, you have a good 
> robust device there that should run for years. I shall certainly continue to 
> use this little Mini for at least the next two or three years if it continues 
> to play ball.
> 
> At that time, perhaps, I shall invest in the cheapest off-the shelf portable 
> Mac that will fulfil my needs. Being able to read emails and access the web 
> covers most, if not all, my needs most of the time.
> 
> By the way Ray, are you really barefooted. Could hunt you up an old pair of 
> shoes at this end if it would help.
> All the best.
> Martin   
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Ray Foret jr
> Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2016 8:34 PM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: It's not good to believe everything you hear
> 
> Wow, Martin, I saved your message to my Mac.  There’s a good long article in 
> that contribution I know there is.  You really could do it if you wanted to.
> 
> I too cannot upgrade to Sierra because this here mid 2009 Mac book pro just 
> will not take it.
> 
> 
> Sent from my Mac, The only computer with full accessibility for the 
> blind built-in
> 
> Sincerely, The Constantly Barefooted Ray Still a very happy Mac, Verizon 
> Wireless iPhone6+ and Apple TV user!
> 
>> On Sep 29, 2016, at 8:39 AM, Martin Brown <mbrown.bro...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> I quite honestly think that some people don't read their emails 
>> before responding. Nowhere in my email did I say that Apple was 
>> forcing me to upgrade to Sierra. The point is that I can't do so even 
>> if I desperately wanted to without buying a new machine. Indeed, I 
>> don't agree with something being forced upon anyone. I feel the 
>> reference here is towards Microsoft and Windows 10. Believe me I am no fan 
>> of such an approach.
>> 
>> However, here is an interesting point. I am running a 5-year-old 
>> desktop custom built machine. It has 8GB of RAM and a 1TB hard drive.
>> Despite the speck remaining the same in every sense, including the 
>> CPU, Windows 10 is much faster than Windows 7 ever was on this machine.
>> 
>> So, please feel free to lambast Microsoft. Times they deserve it, 
>> times they don't. I do not feel protective towards any provider of 
>> either goods or services. It is simply a financial transaction between them 
>> and myself.
>> Long gone is the day when providers cared anything about their 
>> customers, and as far as I am concerned, the feeling is mutual.
>> 
>> Despite that however, I strongly feel that people should pay for the 
>> goods and services they receive. This is equally true when the goods 
>> are licenced software. There are those who feel it is fine to share 
>> such products with friends and family members in breach of very clear 
>> guidelines to the contrary, but the less said about that the better.
>> Thank goodness none of 

RE: It's not good to believe everything you hear

[Simon Fogarty]

Chicken!



-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Tim Kilburn
Sent: Saturday, 1 October 2016 2:16 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: It's not good to believe everything you hear

Hi,

Barefoot is not really practical up here in the Great White North.  40 or 50 
below does not load well on bare feet :).

Later...

Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Sep 30, 2016, at 06:34, Ray Foret jr <rforet7...@comcast.net> wrote:

Martin, Shoes should be against the law!!!  Bare feet are the only way to go!!!

Well, so long as I can use Amadeus Pro on this here Mac, it will stay in 
service.  Done with Sound Forge Pro for Mac because it doesn’t meat my audio 
needs.  Good for a while but Amadeus Pro beats it for accessibility and 
flexibility with respect to what a blind person can manipulate with it.


Sent from my Mac, The only computer with full accessibility for the blind 
built-in

Sincerely, The Constantly Barefooted Ray Still a very happy Mac, Verizon 
Wireless iPhone6+ and Apple TV user!

> On Sep 30, 2016, at 6:13 AM, Martin Brown <mbrown.bro...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Sorry to hear that Ray. Bit of a bugger as we would say in this part of the 
> world. As was said by Tim, I think, in an earlier post, you have a good 
> robust device there that should run for years. I shall certainly continue to 
> use this little Mini for at least the next two or three years if it continues 
> to play ball.
> 
> At that time, perhaps, I shall invest in the cheapest off-the shelf portable 
> Mac that will fulfil my needs. Being able to read emails and access the web 
> covers most, if not all, my needs most of the time.
> 
> By the way Ray, are you really barefooted. Could hunt you up an old pair of 
> shoes at this end if it would help.
> All the best.
> Martin   
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Ray Foret jr
> Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2016 8:34 PM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: It's not good to believe everything you hear
> 
> Wow, Martin, I saved your message to my Mac.  There’s a good long article in 
> that contribution I know there is.  You really could do it if you wanted to.
> 
> I too cannot upgrade to Sierra because this here mid 2009 Mac book pro just 
> will not take it.
> 
> 
> Sent from my Mac, The only computer with full accessibility for the 
> blind built-in
> 
> Sincerely, The Constantly Barefooted Ray Still a very happy Mac, Verizon 
> Wireless iPhone6+ and Apple TV user!
> 
>> On Sep 29, 2016, at 8:39 AM, Martin Brown <mbrown.bro...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> I quite honestly think that some people don't read their emails 
>> before responding. Nowhere in my email did I say that Apple was 
>> forcing me to upgrade to Sierra. The point is that I can't do so even 
>> if I desperately wanted to without buying a new machine. Indeed, I 
>> don't agree with something being forced upon anyone. I feel the 
>> reference here is towards Microsoft and Windows 10. Believe me I am no fan 
>> of such an approach.
>> 
>> However, here is an interesting point. I am running a 5-year-old 
>> desktop custom built machine. It has 8GB of RAM and a 1TB hard drive.
>> Despite the speck remaining the same in every sense, including the 
>> CPU, Windows 10 is much faster than Windows 7 ever was on this machine.
>> 
>> So, please feel free to lambast Microsoft. Times they deserve it, 
>> times they don't. I do not feel protective towards any provider of 
>> either goods or services. It is simply a financial transaction between them 
>> and myself.
>> Long gone is the day when providers cared anything about their 
>> customers, and as far as I am concerned, the feeling is mutual.
>> 
>> Despite that however, I strongly feel that people should pay for the 
>> goods and services they receive. This is equally true when the goods 
>> are licenced software. There are those who feel it is fine to share 
>> such products with friends and family members in breach of very clear 
>> guidelines to the contrary, but the less said about that the better.
>> Thank goodness none of my friends subscribe to this list.
>> 
>> Another responder points out that my Mini is, and will probably 
>> continue to function using El Capitan for a long time. I have no 
>> doubt of that and I have said as much myself. Macs are built too 
>> last. It defeats the purpose however if the hardware cannot be 
>> upgraded to match the needs of the software, at least to some degree, 
>> without buying a new mach

RE: It's not good to believe everything you hear

[Simon Fogarty]

Oh Ray, 

I see now, you have Bare feet, meaning your not wearing anything in the way of 
foot ware,

I thought that you actually had feet of a bear, you know, as in hairy with 
really sharp claws.

 Oh well,

 You couldn't go bare foot around my city,
You'd end up bleeding to death from walking in broken glass.
Drunken students who'd have ever been one.

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Ray Foret jr
Sent: Saturday, 1 October 2016 1:35 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: It's not good to believe everything you hear

Martin, Shoes should be against the law!!!  Bare feet are the only way to go!!!

Well, so long as I can use Amadeus Pro on this here Mac, it will stay in 
service.  Done with Sound Forge Pro for Mac because it doesn’t meat my audio 
needs.  Good for a while but Amadeus Pro beats it for accessibility and 
flexibility with respect to what a blind person can manipulate with it.


Sent from my Mac, The only computer with full accessibility for the blind 
built-in

Sincerely, The Constantly Barefooted Ray Still a very happy Mac, Verizon 
Wireless iPhone6+ and Apple TV user!

> On Sep 30, 2016, at 6:13 AM, Martin Brown <mbrown.bro...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Sorry to hear that Ray. Bit of a bugger as we would say in this part of the 
> world. As was said by Tim, I think, in an earlier post, you have a good 
> robust device there that should run for years. I shall certainly continue to 
> use this little Mini for at least the next two or three years if it continues 
> to play ball.
> 
> At that time, perhaps, I shall invest in the cheapest off-the shelf portable 
> Mac that will fulfil my needs. Being able to read emails and access the web 
> covers most, if not all, my needs most of the time.
> 
> By the way Ray, are you really barefooted. Could hunt you up an old pair of 
> shoes at this end if it would help.
> All the best.
> Martin   
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Ray Foret jr
> Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2016 8:34 PM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: It's not good to believe everything you hear
> 
> Wow, Martin, I saved your message to my Mac.  There’s a good long article in 
> that contribution I know there is.  You really could do it if you wanted to.
> 
> I too cannot upgrade to Sierra because this here mid 2009 Mac book pro just 
> will not take it.
> 
> 
> Sent from my Mac, The only computer with full accessibility for the 
> blind built-in
> 
> Sincerely, The Constantly Barefooted Ray Still a very happy Mac, Verizon 
> Wireless iPhone6+ and Apple TV user!
> 
>> On Sep 29, 2016, at 8:39 AM, Martin Brown <mbrown.bro...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> I quite honestly think that some people don't read their emails 
>> before responding. Nowhere in my email did I say that Apple was 
>> forcing me to upgrade to Sierra. The point is that I can't do so even 
>> if I desperately wanted to without buying a new machine. Indeed, I 
>> don't agree with something being forced upon anyone. I feel the 
>> reference here is towards Microsoft and Windows 10. Believe me I am no fan 
>> of such an approach.
>> 
>> However, here is an interesting point. I am running a 5-year-old 
>> desktop custom built machine. It has 8GB of RAM and a 1TB hard drive.
>> Despite the speck remaining the same in every sense, including the 
>> CPU, Windows 10 is much faster than Windows 7 ever was on this machine.
>> 
>> So, please feel free to lambast Microsoft. Times they deserve it, 
>> times they don't. I do not feel protective towards any provider of 
>> either goods or services. It is simply a financial transaction between them 
>> and myself.
>> Long gone is the day when providers cared anything about their 
>> customers, and as far as I am concerned, the feeling is mutual.
>> 
>> Despite that however, I strongly feel that people should pay for the 
>> goods and services they receive. This is equally true when the goods 
>> are licenced software. There are those who feel it is fine to share 
>> such products with friends and family members in breach of very clear 
>> guidelines to the contrary, but the less said about that the better.
>> Thank goodness none of my friends subscribe to this list.
>> 
>> Another responder points out that my Mini is, and will probably 
>> continue to function using El Capitan for a long time. I have no 
>> doubt of that and I have said as much myself. Macs are built too 
>> last. It defeats the purpose however if the hardware cannot be 
>> upgraded to m

Re: It's not good to believe everything you hear

[Tim Kilburn]

Hi,

Barefoot is not really practical up here in the Great White North.  40 or 50 
below does not load well on bare feet :).

Later...

Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Sep 30, 2016, at 06:34, Ray Foret jr <rforet7...@comcast.net> wrote:

Martin, Shoes should be against the law!!!  Bare feet are the only way to go!!!

Well, so long as I can use Amadeus Pro on this here Mac, it will stay in 
service.  Done with Sound Forge Pro for Mac because it doesn’t meat my audio 
needs.  Good for a while but Amadeus Pro beats it for accessibility and 
flexibility with respect to what a blind person can manipulate with it.


Sent from my Mac, The only computer with full accessibility for the blind 
built-in

Sincerely, The Constantly Barefooted Ray
Still a very happy Mac, Verizon Wireless iPhone6+ and Apple TV user!

> On Sep 30, 2016, at 6:13 AM, Martin Brown <mbrown.bro...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Sorry to hear that Ray. Bit of a bugger as we would say in this part of the 
> world. As was said by Tim, I think, in an earlier post, you have a good 
> robust device there that should run for years. I shall certainly continue to 
> use this little Mini for at least the next two or three years if it continues 
> to play ball.
> 
> At that time, perhaps, I shall invest in the cheapest off-the shelf portable 
> Mac that will fulfil my needs. Being able to read emails and access the web 
> covers most, if not all, my needs most of the time.
> 
> By the way Ray, are you really barefooted. Could hunt you up an old pair of 
> shoes at this end if it would help.
> All the best.
> Martin   
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Ray Foret jr
> Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2016 8:34 PM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: It's not good to believe everything you hear
> 
> Wow, Martin, I saved your message to my Mac.  There’s a good long article in 
> that contribution I know there is.  You really could do it if you wanted to.
> 
> I too cannot upgrade to Sierra because this here mid 2009 Mac book pro just 
> will not take it.
> 
> 
> Sent from my Mac, The only computer with full accessibility for the blind 
> built-in
> 
> Sincerely, The Constantly Barefooted Ray Still a very happy Mac, Verizon 
> Wireless iPhone6+ and Apple TV user!
> 
>> On Sep 29, 2016, at 8:39 AM, Martin Brown <mbrown.bro...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> I quite honestly think that some people don't read their emails before 
>> responding. Nowhere in my email did I say that Apple was forcing me to 
>> upgrade to Sierra. The point is that I can't do so even if I 
>> desperately wanted to without buying a new machine. Indeed, I don't 
>> agree with something being forced upon anyone. I feel the reference 
>> here is towards Microsoft and Windows 10. Believe me I am no fan of such an 
>> approach.
>> 
>> However, here is an interesting point. I am running a 5-year-old 
>> desktop custom built machine. It has 8GB of RAM and a 1TB hard drive. 
>> Despite the speck remaining the same in every sense, including the 
>> CPU, Windows 10 is much faster than Windows 7 ever was on this machine.
>> 
>> So, please feel free to lambast Microsoft. Times they deserve it, 
>> times they don't. I do not feel protective towards any provider of 
>> either goods or services. It is simply a financial transaction between them 
>> and myself.
>> Long gone is the day when providers cared anything about their 
>> customers, and as far as I am concerned, the feeling is mutual.
>> 
>> Despite that however, I strongly feel that people should pay for the 
>> goods and services they receive. This is equally true when the goods 
>> are licenced software. There are those who feel it is fine to share 
>> such products with friends and family members in breach of very clear 
>> guidelines to the contrary, but the less said about that the better. 
>> Thank goodness none of my friends subscribe to this list.
>> 
>> Another responder points out that my Mini is, and will probably 
>> continue to function using El Capitan for a long time. I have no doubt 
>> of that and I have said as much myself. Macs are built too last. It 
>> defeats the purpose however if the hardware cannot be upgraded to 
>> match the needs of the software, at least to some degree, without buying a 
>> new machine.
>> 
>> Here is something in my appalling ignorance that escapes me. I have a 
>> friend who bought a Mini at the same time as myself. An off the shelf 
>> Mac Mini in late 2009 had a speck of 1GB of RAM and a 128GB hard 
>> drive. He decided

Re: It's not good to believe everything you hear

[Ray Foret jr]

Martin, Shoes should be against the law!!!  Bare feet are the only way to go!!!

Well, so long as I can use Amadeus Pro on this here Mac, it will stay in 
service.  Done with Sound Forge Pro for Mac because it doesn’t meat my audio 
needs.  Good for a while but Amadeus Pro beats it for accessibility and 
flexibility with respect to what a blind person can manipulate with it.


Sent from my Mac, The only computer with full accessibility for the blind 
built-in

Sincerely, The Constantly Barefooted Ray
Still a very happy Mac, Verizon Wireless iPhone6+ and Apple TV user!

> On Sep 30, 2016, at 6:13 AM, Martin Brown <mbrown.bro...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Sorry to hear that Ray. Bit of a bugger as we would say in this part of the 
> world. As was said by Tim, I think, in an earlier post, you have a good 
> robust device there that should run for years. I shall certainly continue to 
> use this little Mini for at least the next two or three years if it continues 
> to play ball.
> 
> At that time, perhaps, I shall invest in the cheapest off-the shelf portable 
> Mac that will fulfil my needs. Being able to read emails and access the web 
> covers most, if not all, my needs most of the time.
> 
> By the way Ray, are you really barefooted. Could hunt you up an old pair of 
> shoes at this end if it would help.
> All the best.
> Martin   
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Ray Foret jr
> Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2016 8:34 PM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: It's not good to believe everything you hear
> 
> Wow, Martin, I saved your message to my Mac.  There’s a good long article in 
> that contribution I know there is.  You really could do it if you wanted to.
> 
> I too cannot upgrade to Sierra because this here mid 2009 Mac book pro just 
> will not take it.
> 
> 
> Sent from my Mac, The only computer with full accessibility for the blind 
> built-in
> 
> Sincerely, The Constantly Barefooted Ray Still a very happy Mac, Verizon 
> Wireless iPhone6+ and Apple TV user!
> 
>> On Sep 29, 2016, at 8:39 AM, Martin Brown <mbrown.bro...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> I quite honestly think that some people don't read their emails before 
>> responding. Nowhere in my email did I say that Apple was forcing me to 
>> upgrade to Sierra. The point is that I can't do so even if I 
>> desperately wanted to without buying a new machine. Indeed, I don't 
>> agree with something being forced upon anyone. I feel the reference 
>> here is towards Microsoft and Windows 10. Believe me I am no fan of such an 
>> approach.
>> 
>> However, here is an interesting point. I am running a 5-year-old 
>> desktop custom built machine. It has 8GB of RAM and a 1TB hard drive. 
>> Despite the speck remaining the same in every sense, including the 
>> CPU, Windows 10 is much faster than Windows 7 ever was on this machine.
>> 
>> So, please feel free to lambast Microsoft. Times they deserve it, 
>> times they don't. I do not feel protective towards any provider of 
>> either goods or services. It is simply a financial transaction between them 
>> and myself.
>> Long gone is the day when providers cared anything about their 
>> customers, and as far as I am concerned, the feeling is mutual.
>> 
>> Despite that however, I strongly feel that people should pay for the 
>> goods and services they receive. This is equally true when the goods 
>> are licenced software. There are those who feel it is fine to share 
>> such products with friends and family members in breach of very clear 
>> guidelines to the contrary, but the less said about that the better. 
>> Thank goodness none of my friends subscribe to this list.
>> 
>> Another responder points out that my Mini is, and will probably 
>> continue to function using El Capitan for a long time. I have no doubt 
>> of that and I have said as much myself. Macs are built too last. It 
>> defeats the purpose however if the hardware cannot be upgraded to 
>> match the needs of the software, at least to some degree, without buying a 
>> new machine.
>> 
>> Here is something in my appalling ignorance that escapes me. I have a 
>> friend who bought a Mini at the same time as myself. An off the shelf 
>> Mac Mini in late 2009 had a speck of 1GB of RAM and a 128GB hard 
>> drive. He decided to double the Ram to 2GB and stay with the same size 
>> hard drive. I, on the other hand, decided on 4GB of RAM and a 500GB 
>> hard drive. As you can imagine the price difference was significant. 
>> Now, here is the point. He is

RE: It's not good to believe everything you hear

[Martin Brown]

Sorry to hear that Ray. Bit of a bugger as we would say in this part of the 
world. As was said by Tim, I think, in an earlier post, you have a good robust 
device there that should run for years. I shall certainly continue to use this 
little Mini for at least the next two or three years if it continues to play 
ball.

At that time, perhaps, I shall invest in the cheapest off-the shelf portable 
Mac that will fulfil my needs. Being able to read emails and access the web 
covers most, if not all, my needs most of the time.

By the way Ray, are you really barefooted. Could hunt you up an old pair of 
shoes at this end if it would help.
All the best.
Martin   
-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Ray Foret jr
Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2016 8:34 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: It's not good to believe everything you hear

Wow, Martin, I saved your message to my Mac.  There’s a good long article in 
that contribution I know there is.  You really could do it if you wanted to.

I too cannot upgrade to Sierra because this here mid 2009 Mac book pro just 
will not take it.


Sent from my Mac, The only computer with full accessibility for the blind 
built-in

Sincerely, The Constantly Barefooted Ray Still a very happy Mac, Verizon 
Wireless iPhone6+ and Apple TV user!

> On Sep 29, 2016, at 8:39 AM, Martin Brown <mbrown.bro...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> I quite honestly think that some people don't read their emails before 
> responding. Nowhere in my email did I say that Apple was forcing me to 
> upgrade to Sierra. The point is that I can't do so even if I 
> desperately wanted to without buying a new machine. Indeed, I don't 
> agree with something being forced upon anyone. I feel the reference 
> here is towards Microsoft and Windows 10. Believe me I am no fan of such an 
> approach.
> 
> However, here is an interesting point. I am running a 5-year-old 
> desktop custom built machine. It has 8GB of RAM and a 1TB hard drive. 
> Despite the speck remaining the same in every sense, including the 
> CPU, Windows 10 is much faster than Windows 7 ever was on this machine.
> 
> So, please feel free to lambast Microsoft. Times they deserve it, 
> times they don't. I do not feel protective towards any provider of 
> either goods or services. It is simply a financial transaction between them 
> and myself.
> Long gone is the day when providers cared anything about their 
> customers, and as far as I am concerned, the feeling is mutual.
> 
> Despite that however, I strongly feel that people should pay for the 
> goods and services they receive. This is equally true when the goods 
> are licenced software. There are those who feel it is fine to share 
> such products with friends and family members in breach of very clear 
> guidelines to the contrary, but the less said about that the better. 
> Thank goodness none of my friends subscribe to this list.
> 
> Another responder points out that my Mini is, and will probably 
> continue to function using El Capitan for a long time. I have no doubt 
> of that and I have said as much myself. Macs are built too last. It 
> defeats the purpose however if the hardware cannot be upgraded to 
> match the needs of the software, at least to some degree, without buying a 
> new machine.
> 
>  Here is something in my appalling ignorance that escapes me. I have a 
> friend who bought a Mini at the same time as myself. An off the shelf 
> Mac Mini in late 2009 had a speck of 1GB of RAM and a 128GB hard 
> drive. He decided to double the Ram to 2GB and stay with the same size 
> hard drive. I, on the other hand, decided on 4GB of RAM and a 500GB 
> hard drive. As you can imagine the price difference was significant. 
> Now, here is the point. He is also running El Capitan with absolutely 
> no performance difference to my own machine. Like myself, he cannot 
> upgrade to Sierra, but as we have both light-heartedly laughed, he has 
> only been half as well screwed as I myself have.
> 
> So, do chill out friends. The sun still shines and the world continues 
> to revolve. An almost pathological adherence to any one supplier over 
> another cannot be a good thing. Apple produce a great product with 
> great built-in accessibility. The weakness in their model from a 
> consumer's perspective is that they provide both the hardware and the 
> software. Although this has many benefits, it is not an ideal 
> situation in one crucial area. Namely, it is not financially to their 
> advantage to support hardware beyond a short time frame. Microsoft 
> will be just as bad in this respect now that they have also got into 
> the hardware game. Because of that, under no circumstances, will I 
> purchase any of their

RE: It's not good to believe everything you hear

[Martin Brown]

With all due respect David, you are a good example of those who do not read 
what is written. My 2009 machine is the Mac Mini in question. So, that equals 7 
years old.

My five-year-old machine is a custom built Windows device. So, it was acquired 
in 2012.

I do use both operating systems. Therefore, despite the advice from another 
contributor I have every right to be part of this community. My posts are not 
intended to be taken as a personal attack on any member of the list. There are 
those, however, who seem to take any negativity directed towards Apple and its 
products as an attack on them personally. Ah well, still good to be alive 
despite all that.
Have a good day from a very sunny UK.

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of David Chittenden
Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2016 9:53 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: It's not good to believe everything you hear

2009 machine in 2016 is a 7 year old machine, not a 5 year old machine.

David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
Mobile: +64 21 2288 288
Sent from my iPhone

> On 30/09/2016, at 02:39, Martin Brown <mbrown.bro...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> I quite honestly think that some people don't read their emails before 
> responding. Nowhere in my email did I say that Apple was forcing me to 
> upgrade to Sierra. The point is that I can't do so even if I 
> desperately wanted to without buying a new machine. Indeed, I don't 
> agree with something being forced upon anyone. I feel the reference 
> here is towards Microsoft and Windows 10. Believe me I am no fan of such an 
> approach.
> 
> However, here is an interesting point. I am running a 5-year-old 
> desktop custom built machine. It has 8GB of RAM and a 1TB hard drive. 
> Despite the speck remaining the same in every sense, including the 
> CPU, Windows 10 is much faster than Windows 7 ever was on this machine.
> 
> So, please feel free to lambast Microsoft. Times they deserve it, 
> times they don't. I do not feel protective towards any provider of 
> either goods or services. It is simply a financial transaction between them 
> and myself.
> Long gone is the day when providers cared anything about their 
> customers, and as far as I am concerned, the feeling is mutual.
> 
> Despite that however, I strongly feel that people should pay for the 
> goods and services they receive. This is equally true when the goods 
> are licenced software. There are those who feel it is fine to share 
> such products with friends and family members in breach of very clear 
> guidelines to the contrary, but the less said about that the better. 
> Thank goodness none of my friends subscribe to this list.
> 
> Another responder points out that my Mini is, and will probably 
> continue to function using El Capitan for a long time. I have no doubt 
> of that and I have said as much myself. Macs are built too last. It 
> defeats the purpose however if the hardware cannot be upgraded to 
> match the needs of the software, at least to some degree, without buying a 
> new machine.
> 
>  Here is something in my appalling ignorance that escapes me. I have a 
> friend who bought a Mini at the same time as myself. An off the shelf 
> Mac Mini in late 2009 had a speck of 1GB of RAM and a 128GB hard 
> drive. He decided to double the Ram to 2GB and stay with the same size 
> hard drive. I, on the other hand, decided on 4GB of RAM and a 500GB 
> hard drive. As you can imagine the price difference was significant. 
> Now, here is the point. He is also running El Capitan with absolutely 
> no performance difference to my own machine. Like myself, he cannot 
> upgrade to Sierra, but as we have both light-heartedly laughed, he has 
> only been half as well screwed as I myself have.
> 
> So, do chill out friends. The sun still shines and the world continues 
> to revolve. An almost pathological adherence to any one supplier over 
> another cannot be a good thing. Apple produce a great product with 
> great built-in accessibility. The weakness in their model from a 
> consumer's perspective is that they provide both the hardware and the 
> software. Although this has many benefits, it is not an ideal 
> situation in one crucial area. Namely, it is not financially to their 
> advantage to support hardware beyond a short time frame. Microsoft 
> will be just as bad in this respect now that they have also got into 
> the hardware game. Because of that, under no circumstances, will I 
> purchase any of their hardware. They will use the same old flannel to 
> encourage their customers to buy the latest offering so that their 
> well-heeled shareholders can buy a bigger and better yacht than their 
> equally well-heeled neighbou

Re: It's not good to believe everything you hear

[E.T.]

   No Ray but I will not trouble myself to quote Martin's statement.

From E.T.'s Keyboard...
  Are We Alone in the Universe?
ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 9/29/2016 12:34 PM, Ray Foret jr wrote:

With Respect, ET, I suspect you missunderstood Martin’s point.  Really really 
read his e-mail and, this time, pay attention.

He was not talking about going back to Microsoft.


Sent from my Mac, The only computer with full accessibility for the blind 
built-in

Sincerely, The Constantly Barefooted Ray
Still a very happy Mac, Verizon Wireless iPhone6+ and Apple TV user!


On Sep 29, 2016, at 9:29 AM, E.T.  wrote:

Martin,
  Your editorials are beginning to ramble, you have long since lost your point. 
If your intent on going back to Microsoft, great but this is still the group 
for Apple products.

From E.T.'s Keyboard...
 Are We Alone in the Universe?
ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 9/29/2016 6:39 AM, Martin Brown wrote:

I quite honestly think that some people don't read their emails before
responding. Nowhere in my email did I say that Apple was forcing me to
upgrade to Sierra. The point is that I can't do so even if I desperately
wanted to without buying a new machine. Indeed, I don't agree with something
being forced upon anyone. I feel the reference here is towards Microsoft and
Windows 10. Believe me I am no fan of such an approach.

However, here is an interesting point. I am running a 5-year-old desktop
custom built machine. It has 8GB of RAM and a 1TB hard drive. Despite the
speck remaining the same in every sense, including the CPU, Windows 10 is
much faster than Windows 7 ever was on this machine.

So, please feel free to lambast Microsoft. Times they deserve it, times they
don't. I do not feel protective towards any provider of either goods or
services. It is simply a financial transaction between them and myself.
Long gone is the day when providers cared anything about their customers,
and as far as I am concerned, the feeling is mutual.

Despite that however, I strongly feel that people should pay for the goods
and services they receive. This is equally true when the goods are licenced
software. There are those who feel it is fine to share such products with
friends and family members in breach of very clear guidelines to the
contrary, but the less said about that the better. Thank goodness none of my
friends subscribe to this list.

Another responder points out that my Mini is, and will probably continue to
function using El Capitan for a long time. I have no doubt of that and I
have said as much myself. Macs are built too last. It defeats the purpose
however if the hardware cannot be upgraded to match the needs of the
software, at least to some degree, without buying a new machine.

 Here is something in my appalling ignorance that escapes me. I have a
friend who bought a Mini at the same time as myself. An off the shelf Mac
Mini in late 2009 had a speck of 1GB of RAM and a 128GB hard drive. He
decided to double the Ram to 2GB and stay with the same size hard drive. I,
on the other hand, decided on 4GB of RAM and a 500GB hard drive. As you can
imagine the price difference was significant. Now, here is the point. He is
also running El Capitan with absolutely no performance difference to my own
machine. Like myself, he cannot upgrade to Sierra, but as we have both
light-heartedly laughed, he has only been half as well screwed as I myself
have.

So, do chill out friends. The sun still shines and the world continues to
revolve. An almost pathological adherence to any one supplier over another
cannot be a good thing. Apple produce a great product with great built-in
accessibility. The weakness in their model from a consumer's perspective is
that they provide both the hardware and the software. Although this has many
benefits, it is not an ideal situation in one crucial area. Namely, it is
not financially to their advantage to support hardware beyond a short time
frame. Microsoft will be just as bad in this respect now that they have also
got into the hardware game. Because of that, under no circumstances, will I
purchase any of their hardware. They will use the same old flannel to
encourage their customers to buy the latest offering so that their
well-heeled shareholders can buy a bigger and better yacht than their
equally well-heeled neighbours. I have a rule that I always follow when
assimilating any information coming from a source that has a financial
interest in that information. Don't believe everything they tell you.
Indeed, only believe a small fraction of what they tell you, and you can't
go wrong.
Kind Regards:
Martin



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list.

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feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
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Re: It's not good to believe everything you hear

[David Chittenden]

2009 machine in 2016 is a 7 year old machine, not a 5 year old machine.

David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
Mobile: +64 21 2288 288
Sent from my iPhone

> On 30/09/2016, at 02:39, Martin Brown  wrote:
> 
> I quite honestly think that some people don't read their emails before
> responding. Nowhere in my email did I say that Apple was forcing me to
> upgrade to Sierra. The point is that I can't do so even if I desperately
> wanted to without buying a new machine. Indeed, I don't agree with something
> being forced upon anyone. I feel the reference here is towards Microsoft and
> Windows 10. Believe me I am no fan of such an approach.
> 
> However, here is an interesting point. I am running a 5-year-old desktop
> custom built machine. It has 8GB of RAM and a 1TB hard drive. Despite the
> speck remaining the same in every sense, including the CPU, Windows 10 is
> much faster than Windows 7 ever was on this machine.  
> 
> So, please feel free to lambast Microsoft. Times they deserve it, times they
> don't. I do not feel protective towards any provider of either goods or
> services. It is simply a financial transaction between them and myself.
> Long gone is the day when providers cared anything about their customers,
> and as far as I am concerned, the feeling is mutual.
> 
> Despite that however, I strongly feel that people should pay for the goods
> and services they receive. This is equally true when the goods are licenced
> software. There are those who feel it is fine to share such products with
> friends and family members in breach of very clear guidelines to the
> contrary, but the less said about that the better. Thank goodness none of my
> friends subscribe to this list.
> 
> Another responder points out that my Mini is, and will probably continue to
> function using El Capitan for a long time. I have no doubt of that and I
> have said as much myself. Macs are built too last. It defeats the purpose
> however if the hardware cannot be upgraded to match the needs of the
> software, at least to some degree, without buying a new machine.
> 
>  Here is something in my appalling ignorance that escapes me. I have a
> friend who bought a Mini at the same time as myself. An off the shelf Mac
> Mini in late 2009 had a speck of 1GB of RAM and a 128GB hard drive. He
> decided to double the Ram to 2GB and stay with the same size hard drive. I,
> on the other hand, decided on 4GB of RAM and a 500GB hard drive. As you can
> imagine the price difference was significant. Now, here is the point. He is
> also running El Capitan with absolutely no performance difference to my own
> machine. Like myself, he cannot upgrade to Sierra, but as we have both
> light-heartedly laughed, he has only been half as well screwed as I myself
> have.
> 
> So, do chill out friends. The sun still shines and the world continues to
> revolve. An almost pathological adherence to any one supplier over another
> cannot be a good thing. Apple produce a great product with great built-in
> accessibility. The weakness in their model from a consumer's perspective is
> that they provide both the hardware and the software. Although this has many
> benefits, it is not an ideal situation in one crucial area. Namely, it is
> not financially to their advantage to support hardware beyond a short time
> frame. Microsoft will be just as bad in this respect now that they have also
> got into the hardware game. Because of that, under no circumstances, will I
> purchase any of their hardware. They will use the same old flannel to
> encourage their customers to buy the latest offering so that their
> well-heeled shareholders can buy a bigger and better yacht than their
> equally well-heeled neighbours. I have a rule that I always follow when
> assimilating any information coming from a source that has a financial
> interest in that information. Don't believe everything they tell you.
> Indeed, only believe a small fraction of what they tell you, and you can't
> go wrong.
> Kind Regards:
> Martin   
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
> macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> --- 
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Re: It's not good to believe everything you hear

[Ray Foret jr]

With Respect, ET, I suspect you missunderstood Martin’s point.  Really really 
read his e-mail and, this time, pay attention.

He was not talking about going back to Microsoft.


Sent from my Mac, The only computer with full accessibility for the blind 
built-in

Sincerely, The Constantly Barefooted Ray
Still a very happy Mac, Verizon Wireless iPhone6+ and Apple TV user!

> On Sep 29, 2016, at 9:29 AM, E.T.  wrote:
> 
> Martin,
>   Your editorials are beginning to ramble, you have long since lost your 
> point. If your intent on going back to Microsoft, great but this is still the 
> group for Apple products.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>  Are We Alone in the Universe?
> ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> 
> On 9/29/2016 6:39 AM, Martin Brown wrote:
>> I quite honestly think that some people don't read their emails before
>> responding. Nowhere in my email did I say that Apple was forcing me to
>> upgrade to Sierra. The point is that I can't do so even if I desperately
>> wanted to without buying a new machine. Indeed, I don't agree with something
>> being forced upon anyone. I feel the reference here is towards Microsoft and
>> Windows 10. Believe me I am no fan of such an approach.
>> 
>> However, here is an interesting point. I am running a 5-year-old desktop
>> custom built machine. It has 8GB of RAM and a 1TB hard drive. Despite the
>> speck remaining the same in every sense, including the CPU, Windows 10 is
>> much faster than Windows 7 ever was on this machine.
>> 
>> So, please feel free to lambast Microsoft. Times they deserve it, times they
>> don't. I do not feel protective towards any provider of either goods or
>> services. It is simply a financial transaction between them and myself.
>> Long gone is the day when providers cared anything about their customers,
>> and as far as I am concerned, the feeling is mutual.
>> 
>> Despite that however, I strongly feel that people should pay for the goods
>> and services they receive. This is equally true when the goods are licenced
>> software. There are those who feel it is fine to share such products with
>> friends and family members in breach of very clear guidelines to the
>> contrary, but the less said about that the better. Thank goodness none of my
>> friends subscribe to this list.
>> 
>> Another responder points out that my Mini is, and will probably continue to
>> function using El Capitan for a long time. I have no doubt of that and I
>> have said as much myself. Macs are built too last. It defeats the purpose
>> however if the hardware cannot be upgraded to match the needs of the
>> software, at least to some degree, without buying a new machine.
>> 
>>  Here is something in my appalling ignorance that escapes me. I have a
>> friend who bought a Mini at the same time as myself. An off the shelf Mac
>> Mini in late 2009 had a speck of 1GB of RAM and a 128GB hard drive. He
>> decided to double the Ram to 2GB and stay with the same size hard drive. I,
>> on the other hand, decided on 4GB of RAM and a 500GB hard drive. As you can
>> imagine the price difference was significant. Now, here is the point. He is
>> also running El Capitan with absolutely no performance difference to my own
>> machine. Like myself, he cannot upgrade to Sierra, but as we have both
>> light-heartedly laughed, he has only been half as well screwed as I myself
>> have.
>> 
>> So, do chill out friends. The sun still shines and the world continues to
>> revolve. An almost pathological adherence to any one supplier over another
>> cannot be a good thing. Apple produce a great product with great built-in
>> accessibility. The weakness in their model from a consumer's perspective is
>> that they provide both the hardware and the software. Although this has many
>> benefits, it is not an ideal situation in one crucial area. Namely, it is
>> not financially to their advantage to support hardware beyond a short time
>> frame. Microsoft will be just as bad in this respect now that they have also
>> got into the hardware game. Because of that, under no circumstances, will I
>> purchase any of their hardware. They will use the same old flannel to
>> encourage their customers to buy the latest offering so that their
>> well-heeled shareholders can buy a bigger and better yacht than their
>> equally well-heeled neighbours. I have a rule that I always follow when
>> assimilating any information coming from a source that has a financial
>> interest in that information. Don't believe everything they tell you.
>> Indeed, only believe a small fraction of what they tell you, and you can't
>> go wrong.
>> Kind Regards:
>> Martin
>> 
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac 

Re: It's not good to believe everything you hear

[Ray Foret jr]

Wow, Martin, I saved your message to my Mac.  There’s a good long article in 
that contribution I know there is.  You really could do it if you wanted to.

I too cannot upgrade to Sierra because this here mid 2009 Mac book pro just 
will not take it.


Sent from my Mac, The only computer with full accessibility for the blind 
built-in

Sincerely, The Constantly Barefooted Ray
Still a very happy Mac, Verizon Wireless iPhone6+ and Apple TV user!

> On Sep 29, 2016, at 8:39 AM, Martin Brown  wrote:
> 
> I quite honestly think that some people don't read their emails before
> responding. Nowhere in my email did I say that Apple was forcing me to
> upgrade to Sierra. The point is that I can't do so even if I desperately
> wanted to without buying a new machine. Indeed, I don't agree with something
> being forced upon anyone. I feel the reference here is towards Microsoft and
> Windows 10. Believe me I am no fan of such an approach.
> 
> However, here is an interesting point. I am running a 5-year-old desktop
> custom built machine. It has 8GB of RAM and a 1TB hard drive. Despite the
> speck remaining the same in every sense, including the CPU, Windows 10 is
> much faster than Windows 7 ever was on this machine.  
> 
> So, please feel free to lambast Microsoft. Times they deserve it, times they
> don't. I do not feel protective towards any provider of either goods or
> services. It is simply a financial transaction between them and myself.
> Long gone is the day when providers cared anything about their customers,
> and as far as I am concerned, the feeling is mutual.
> 
> Despite that however, I strongly feel that people should pay for the goods
> and services they receive. This is equally true when the goods are licenced
> software. There are those who feel it is fine to share such products with
> friends and family members in breach of very clear guidelines to the
> contrary, but the less said about that the better. Thank goodness none of my
> friends subscribe to this list.
> 
> Another responder points out that my Mini is, and will probably continue to
> function using El Capitan for a long time. I have no doubt of that and I
> have said as much myself. Macs are built too last. It defeats the purpose
> however if the hardware cannot be upgraded to match the needs of the
> software, at least to some degree, without buying a new machine.
> 
>  Here is something in my appalling ignorance that escapes me. I have a
> friend who bought a Mini at the same time as myself. An off the shelf Mac
> Mini in late 2009 had a speck of 1GB of RAM and a 128GB hard drive. He
> decided to double the Ram to 2GB and stay with the same size hard drive. I,
> on the other hand, decided on 4GB of RAM and a 500GB hard drive. As you can
> imagine the price difference was significant. Now, here is the point. He is
> also running El Capitan with absolutely no performance difference to my own
> machine. Like myself, he cannot upgrade to Sierra, but as we have both
> light-heartedly laughed, he has only been half as well screwed as I myself
> have.
> 
> So, do chill out friends. The sun still shines and the world continues to
> revolve. An almost pathological adherence to any one supplier over another
> cannot be a good thing. Apple produce a great product with great built-in
> accessibility. The weakness in their model from a consumer's perspective is
> that they provide both the hardware and the software. Although this has many
> benefits, it is not an ideal situation in one crucial area. Namely, it is
> not financially to their advantage to support hardware beyond a short time
> frame. Microsoft will be just as bad in this respect now that they have also
> got into the hardware game. Because of that, under no circumstances, will I
> purchase any of their hardware. They will use the same old flannel to
> encourage their customers to buy the latest offering so that their
> well-heeled shareholders can buy a bigger and better yacht than their
> equally well-heeled neighbours. I have a rule that I always follow when
> assimilating any information coming from a source that has a financial
> interest in that information. Don't believe everything they tell you.
> Indeed, only believe a small fraction of what they tell you, and you can't
> go wrong.
> Kind Regards:
> Martin   
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
> macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> --- 

Re: It's not good to believe everything you hear

[E.T.]

Martin,
   Your editorials are beginning to ramble, you have long since lost 
your point. If your intent on going back to Microsoft, great but this is 
still the group for Apple products.


From E.T.'s Keyboard...
  Are We Alone in the Universe?
ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 9/29/2016 6:39 AM, Martin Brown wrote:

I quite honestly think that some people don't read their emails before
responding. Nowhere in my email did I say that Apple was forcing me to
upgrade to Sierra. The point is that I can't do so even if I desperately
wanted to without buying a new machine. Indeed, I don't agree with something
being forced upon anyone. I feel the reference here is towards Microsoft and
Windows 10. Believe me I am no fan of such an approach.

However, here is an interesting point. I am running a 5-year-old desktop
custom built machine. It has 8GB of RAM and a 1TB hard drive. Despite the
speck remaining the same in every sense, including the CPU, Windows 10 is
much faster than Windows 7 ever was on this machine.

So, please feel free to lambast Microsoft. Times they deserve it, times they
don't. I do not feel protective towards any provider of either goods or
services. It is simply a financial transaction between them and myself.
Long gone is the day when providers cared anything about their customers,
and as far as I am concerned, the feeling is mutual.

Despite that however, I strongly feel that people should pay for the goods
and services they receive. This is equally true when the goods are licenced
software. There are those who feel it is fine to share such products with
friends and family members in breach of very clear guidelines to the
contrary, but the less said about that the better. Thank goodness none of my
friends subscribe to this list.

Another responder points out that my Mini is, and will probably continue to
function using El Capitan for a long time. I have no doubt of that and I
have said as much myself. Macs are built too last. It defeats the purpose
however if the hardware cannot be upgraded to match the needs of the
software, at least to some degree, without buying a new machine.

  Here is something in my appalling ignorance that escapes me. I have a
friend who bought a Mini at the same time as myself. An off the shelf Mac
Mini in late 2009 had a speck of 1GB of RAM and a 128GB hard drive. He
decided to double the Ram to 2GB and stay with the same size hard drive. I,
on the other hand, decided on 4GB of RAM and a 500GB hard drive. As you can
imagine the price difference was significant. Now, here is the point. He is
also running El Capitan with absolutely no performance difference to my own
machine. Like myself, he cannot upgrade to Sierra, but as we have both
light-heartedly laughed, he has only been half as well screwed as I myself
have.

So, do chill out friends. The sun still shines and the world continues to
revolve. An almost pathological adherence to any one supplier over another
cannot be a good thing. Apple produce a great product with great built-in
accessibility. The weakness in their model from a consumer's perspective is
that they provide both the hardware and the software. Although this has many
benefits, it is not an ideal situation in one crucial area. Namely, it is
not financially to their advantage to support hardware beyond a short time
frame. Microsoft will be just as bad in this respect now that they have also
got into the hardware game. Because of that, under no circumstances, will I
purchase any of their hardware. They will use the same old flannel to
encourage their customers to buy the latest offering so that their
well-heeled shareholders can buy a bigger and better yacht than their
equally well-heeled neighbours. I have a rule that I always follow when
assimilating any information coming from a source that has a financial
interest in that information. Don't believe everything they tell you.
Indeed, only believe a small fraction of what they tell you, and you can't
go wrong.
Kind Regards:
Martin



--
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
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For 

It's not good to believe everything you hear

[Martin Brown]

I quite honestly think that some people don't read their emails before
responding. Nowhere in my email did I say that Apple was forcing me to
upgrade to Sierra. The point is that I can't do so even if I desperately
wanted to without buying a new machine. Indeed, I don't agree with something
being forced upon anyone. I feel the reference here is towards Microsoft and
Windows 10. Believe me I am no fan of such an approach.

However, here is an interesting point. I am running a 5-year-old desktop
custom built machine. It has 8GB of RAM and a 1TB hard drive. Despite the
speck remaining the same in every sense, including the CPU, Windows 10 is
much faster than Windows 7 ever was on this machine.  

So, please feel free to lambast Microsoft. Times they deserve it, times they
don't. I do not feel protective towards any provider of either goods or
services. It is simply a financial transaction between them and myself.
Long gone is the day when providers cared anything about their customers,
and as far as I am concerned, the feeling is mutual.

Despite that however, I strongly feel that people should pay for the goods
and services they receive. This is equally true when the goods are licenced
software. There are those who feel it is fine to share such products with
friends and family members in breach of very clear guidelines to the
contrary, but the less said about that the better. Thank goodness none of my
friends subscribe to this list.

Another responder points out that my Mini is, and will probably continue to
function using El Capitan for a long time. I have no doubt of that and I
have said as much myself. Macs are built too last. It defeats the purpose
however if the hardware cannot be upgraded to match the needs of the
software, at least to some degree, without buying a new machine.

  Here is something in my appalling ignorance that escapes me. I have a
friend who bought a Mini at the same time as myself. An off the shelf Mac
Mini in late 2009 had a speck of 1GB of RAM and a 128GB hard drive. He
decided to double the Ram to 2GB and stay with the same size hard drive. I,
on the other hand, decided on 4GB of RAM and a 500GB hard drive. As you can
imagine the price difference was significant. Now, here is the point. He is
also running El Capitan with absolutely no performance difference to my own
machine. Like myself, he cannot upgrade to Sierra, but as we have both
light-heartedly laughed, he has only been half as well screwed as I myself
have.

So, do chill out friends. The sun still shines and the world continues to
revolve. An almost pathological adherence to any one supplier over another
cannot be a good thing. Apple produce a great product with great built-in
accessibility. The weakness in their model from a consumer's perspective is
that they provide both the hardware and the software. Although this has many
benefits, it is not an ideal situation in one crucial area. Namely, it is
not financially to their advantage to support hardware beyond a short time
frame. Microsoft will be just as bad in this respect now that they have also
got into the hardware game. Because of that, under no circumstances, will I
purchase any of their hardware. They will use the same old flannel to
encourage their customers to buy the latest offering so that their
well-heeled shareholders can buy a bigger and better yacht than their
equally well-heeled neighbours. I have a rule that I always follow when
assimilating any information coming from a source that has a financial
interest in that information. Don't believe everything they tell you.
Indeed, only believe a small fraction of what they tell you, and you can't
go wrong.
Kind Regards:
Martin   

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
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