Re: Getting Row and Column Headers to Speak in Excel

['Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries]

Hi,

VO-c will read the column header.  I think that the limitation is with the 
specification of the header row.  If I'm not mistaken, your header rows must be 
the top most rows.  So, rows one through five can be designated as header rows, 
but not individually.  That is, if you have one header row, it is in row one, 
if you have two, it's row one and two and so on.  I don't believe that you can 
designate row seven as your header row, nor could you designate row three.  You 
can also freeze header rows and columns so that they are not affected during a 
sort or other manipulations.

Check out this link:

https://support.apple.com/kb/PH17073?locale=en_CA=en_US

I realize that this is from a sighted prospective, but the gist is the same.

Later...


Tim Kilburn
Apple Teacher
(with Swift Playgrounds Recognition)
Jamf Certified Associate
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Sep 16, 2019, at 10:45, 'Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries 
 wrote:

Okay, this is strange. So, I have 8 columns that should be spoken as I navigate 
through the rows of. The columns start around from A7 to H7. When I set Column 
header, in the “table” formatter tab, it just sets row 1 and up as the header. 
Maybe this isn’t what I’m looking for? I just want Voiceover to speak the 
headers as I move through them, like NVDA does with Insert+Shift+C for column 
titles.

> On Sep 16, 2019, at 11:24 AM, 'Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries 
> mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> 
> wrote:
> 
> Hi Devin,
> 
> As long as you've designated the row or column as a Header Row or Header 
> Column, just press VO-r or VO-c to hear the titles for the rows and/or 
> columns.  You designate these under the Table menu in the MenuBar.  If you 
> have one row at the top that you wish to be the Header Row, then select "1" 
> from the sub-menu.  If header rows or columns are not designated, Numbers 
> will simply tell you the cell reference column letter or row number.
> 
> HTH.
> 
> Later...
> 
> 
> Tim Kilburn
> Apple Teacher
> (with Swift Playgrounds Recognition)
> Jamf Certified Associate
> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
> 
> On Sep 16, 2019, at 10:12, 'Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries 
> mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> 
> wrote:
> 
> Is there a way to read headers in Numbers? I have a time sheet, with
> Date   Clock inClock out   Clock inClock out   time 
> worked
> That kind of thing, and going back up to the header column is really tedious. 
> 
>> On Sep 16, 2019, at 10:46 AM, 'Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries 
>> mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Dave,
>> 
>> I get it now.  The problem arises from the way that Excel is laid out 
>> compared to Numbers.  Notice that the Column headings such as A, B, C etc 
>> are handled differently in Excel and Numbers.  In Excel, you can move one 
>> row up and read the cell reference letters pertaining to the column headers. 
>>  In Numbers, you need to use the VO-back slash command to access these 
>> column headers.  This is an inherent difference in that Numbers presents the 
>> spreadsheet as. a grouping of tables each with column and row headers.  This 
>> makes it easier to use the VO table commands to work within the Numbers app. 
>>  Because Excel uses different formatting of the sheet itself, the normal VO 
>> table commands do not work as expected.  Excel is an amazing spreadsheet 
>> app, and, essentially, is more powerful than Numbers, but from a VO 
>> prospective, is not as friendly.  to the sighted user, these issues probably 
>> wouldn't present themselves, but to us, they are a barrier.  I totally 
>> understand about wanting to know the title of the headers, but I'm thinking 
>> that, as you've aptly determined, this is more problematic in Excel than 
>> Numbers.
>> 
>> Sorry I didn't find a solution for you.
>> 
>> Best.
>> 
>> 
>> Tim Kilburn
>> Apple Teacher
>> (with Swift Playgrounds Recognition)
>> Jamf Certified Associate
>> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
>> 
>> On Sep 16, 2019, at 08:46, Dave Carlson > > wrote:
>> 
>> Tim,
>> You may have already caught the underlying problem: It not the lack of the 
>> Column/Row coordinates, it’s that the top row and leftmost column cannot be 
>> set up to speak as I navigate the spreadsheet. My large financial sheets  
>> elude my brain’s ability to remember just what each row means, or what each 
>> column is.
>> 
>> Dave Carlson
>> Pioneer, Farfar, Oregonian, Woodworker, Engineer, and Musician
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>>  
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>  
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at: 
>> mk...@ucla.edu  and your owner is Cara 

Re: Getting Row and Column Headers to Speak in Excel

['Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries]

Okay, this is strange. So, I have 8 columns that should be spoken as I navigate 
through the rows of. The columns start around from A7 to H7. When I set Column 
header, in the “table” formatter tab, it just sets row 1 and up as the header. 
Maybe this isn’t what I’m looking for? I just want Voiceover to speak the 
headers as I move through them, like NVDA does with Insert+Shift+C for column 
titles.

> On Sep 16, 2019, at 11:24 AM, 'Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi Devin,
> 
> As long as you've designated the row or column as a Header Row or Header 
> Column, just press VO-r or VO-c to hear the titles for the rows and/or 
> columns.  You designate these under the Table menu in the MenuBar.  If you 
> have one row at the top that you wish to be the Header Row, then select "1" 
> from the sub-menu.  If header rows or columns are not designated, Numbers 
> will simply tell you the cell reference column letter or row number.
> 
> HTH.
> 
> Later...
> 
> 
> Tim Kilburn
> Apple Teacher
> (with Swift Playgrounds Recognition)
> Jamf Certified Associate
> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
> 
> On Sep 16, 2019, at 10:12, 'Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries 
> mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> 
> wrote:
> 
> Is there a way to read headers in Numbers? I have a time sheet, with
> Date   Clock inClock out   Clock inClock out   time 
> worked
> That kind of thing, and going back up to the header column is really tedious. 
> 
>> On Sep 16, 2019, at 10:46 AM, 'Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries 
>> mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Dave,
>> 
>> I get it now.  The problem arises from the way that Excel is laid out 
>> compared to Numbers.  Notice that the Column headings such as A, B, C etc 
>> are handled differently in Excel and Numbers.  In Excel, you can move one 
>> row up and read the cell reference letters pertaining to the column headers. 
>>  In Numbers, you need to use the VO-back slash command to access these 
>> column headers.  This is an inherent difference in that Numbers presents the 
>> spreadsheet as. a grouping of tables each with column and row headers.  This 
>> makes it easier to use the VO table commands to work within the Numbers app. 
>>  Because Excel uses different formatting of the sheet itself, the normal VO 
>> table commands do not work as expected.  Excel is an amazing spreadsheet 
>> app, and, essentially, is more powerful than Numbers, but from a VO 
>> prospective, is not as friendly.  to the sighted user, these issues probably 
>> wouldn't present themselves, but to us, they are a barrier.  I totally 
>> understand about wanting to know the title of the headers, but I'm thinking 
>> that, as you've aptly determined, this is more problematic in Excel than 
>> Numbers.
>> 
>> Sorry I didn't find a solution for you.
>> 
>> Best.
>> 
>> 
>> Tim Kilburn
>> Apple Teacher
>> (with Swift Playgrounds Recognition)
>> Jamf Certified Associate
>> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
>> 
>> On Sep 16, 2019, at 08:46, Dave Carlson > > wrote:
>> 
>> Tim,
>> You may have already caught the underlying problem: It not the lack of the 
>> Column/Row coordinates, it’s that the top row and leftmost column cannot be 
>> set up to speak as I navigate the spreadsheet. My large financial sheets  
>> elude my brain’s ability to remember just what each row means, or what each 
>> column is.
>> 
>> Dave Carlson
>> Pioneer, Farfar, Oregonian, Woodworker, Engineer, and Musician
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>>  
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>  
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at: 
>> mk...@ucla.edu  and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
>> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com 
>>  
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ 
>> 
>> --- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com 
>> .
>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/AEE5F10E-A9BF-446B-B0A4-72191B8C94B7%40sbcglobal.net
>>  
>> .
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>>  
>> 

Re: Getting Row and Column Headers to Speak in Excel

['Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries]

Hi Dave,

Within a given spreadsheet, you can have numerous sheets, and within each 
sheet, you can have any number of tables.  You normally just have one table, 
but if you like to get complicated, you can have more.  I set up one for a 
curriculum alignment sheet that had three worksheets, each with six tables.  
You don't necessarily need to move between tables if you've set up your 
spreadsheet with just one table, but it's possible.  Just like in Excel, you 
can have data in one table affect the data in another, or data in one table 
affect the data in a different table on a different sheet.  As long as this is 
all within the same spreadsheet, like is good.

Regarding table commands, the most important one to know is the VO-shift-back 
slash command, or also known as VO-vertical line.  That's VO plus shift plus 
the key just above the return key.  To see the list of VO commands related to 
tables, press VO-h, arrow to Commands, right and down to Table commands, then 
right and down to hear the various commands available to you.

HTH.

Later...


Tim Kilburn
Apple Teacher
(with Swift Playgrounds Recognition)
Jamf Certified Associate
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Sep 16, 2019, at 10:12, Dave Carlson  wrote:

Tim and Phil,
I think I need just a bit more “under the hood” definition. You both say that 
Numbers uses a group or collection of tables with headers, whereas Excel does 
not. I am having a problem (typical engineer that I am) wrapping my head around 
what you mean by this group or collection. I envision small little tables 
scattered all over the worksheet, each with a tiny chunk of the data in the 
cells. Is that correct? If so, I hope I don’t need to ever know exactly which 
table I’m in.
As to navigating in Numbers, do I need to use more of the table navigation 
commands, and are there a specific set of such, that I should learn?
Thanks again for putting me back on the right trail. OMG! Hope I don’t have 
another round of issues with negative numbers...

Dave Carlson
Musician, Engineer, Farfar, Oregonian, Woodworker, and Pioneer






-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.
 
If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
 
Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at: 
mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com
 
The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ 

--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com 
.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/237D4F03-8F74-42B9-9EA5-5F51A05AA4FA%40sbcglobal.net
 
.

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/138B7FD3-6527-4A60-B486-14089BB9BCEA%40me.com.

Re: Getting Row and Column Headers to Speak in Excel

['Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries]

Hi Devin,

As long as you've designated the row or column as a Header Row or Header 
Column, just press VO-r or VO-c to hear the titles for the rows and/or columns. 
 You designate these under the Table menu in the MenuBar.  If you have one row 
at the top that you wish to be the Header Row, then select "1" from the 
sub-menu.  If header rows or columns are not designated, Numbers will simply 
tell you the cell reference column letter or row number.

HTH.

Later...


Tim Kilburn
Apple Teacher
(with Swift Playgrounds Recognition)
Jamf Certified Associate
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Sep 16, 2019, at 10:12, 'Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries 
 wrote:

Is there a way to read headers in Numbers? I have a time sheet, with
Date Clock inClock out   Clock inClock out   time 
worked
That kind of thing, and going back up to the header column is really tedious. 

> On Sep 16, 2019, at 10:46 AM, 'Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries 
> mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> 
> wrote:
> 
> Hi Dave,
> 
> I get it now.  The problem arises from the way that Excel is laid out 
> compared to Numbers.  Notice that the Column headings such as A, B, C etc are 
> handled differently in Excel and Numbers.  In Excel, you can move one row up 
> and read the cell reference letters pertaining to the column headers.  In 
> Numbers, you need to use the VO-back slash command to access these column 
> headers.  This is an inherent difference in that Numbers presents the 
> spreadsheet as. a grouping of tables each with column and row headers.  This 
> makes it easier to use the VO table commands to work within the Numbers app.  
> Because Excel uses different formatting of the sheet itself, the normal VO 
> table commands do not work as expected.  Excel is an amazing spreadsheet app, 
> and, essentially, is more powerful than Numbers, but from a VO prospective, 
> is not as friendly.  to the sighted user, these issues probably wouldn't 
> present themselves, but to us, they are a barrier.  I totally understand 
> about wanting to know the title of the headers, but I'm thinking that, as 
> you've aptly determined, this is more problematic in Excel than Numbers.
> 
> Sorry I didn't find a solution for you.
> 
> Best.
> 
> 
> Tim Kilburn
> Apple Teacher
> (with Swift Playgrounds Recognition)
> Jamf Certified Associate
> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
> 
> On Sep 16, 2019, at 08:46, Dave Carlson  > wrote:
> 
> Tim,
> You may have already caught the underlying problem: It not the lack of the 
> Column/Row coordinates, it’s that the top row and leftmost column cannot be 
> set up to speak as I navigate the spreadsheet. My large financial sheets  
> elude my brain’s ability to remember just what each row means, or what each 
> column is.
> 
> Dave Carlson
> Pioneer, Farfar, Oregonian, Woodworker, Engineer, and Musician
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
>  
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>  
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at: 
> mk...@ucla.edu  and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can 
> reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com 
>  
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ 
> 
> --- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com 
> .
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/AEE5F10E-A9BF-446B-B0A4-72191B8C94B7%40sbcglobal.net
>  
> .
> 
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
>  
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>  
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at: 
> mk...@ucla.edu  and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can 
> reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com 
>  
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ 
> 
> --- 
> You received this 

Re: Getting Row and Column Headers to Speak in Excel

[Dave Carlson]

Tim and Phil,
I think I need just a bit more “under the hood” definition. You both say that 
Numbers uses a group or collection of tables with headers, whereas Excel does 
not. I am having a problem (typical engineer that I am) wrapping my head around 
what you mean by this group or collection. I envision small little tables 
scattered all over the worksheet, each with a tiny chunk of the data in the 
cells. Is that correct? If so, I hope I don’t need to ever know exactly which 
table I’m in.
As to navigating in Numbers, do I need to use more of the table navigation 
commands, and are there a specific set of such, that I should learn?
Thanks again for putting me back on the right trail. OMG! Hope I don’t have 
another round of issues with negative numbers...

Dave Carlson
Musician, Engineer, Farfar, Oregonian, Woodworker, and Pioneer





-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/237D4F03-8F74-42B9-9EA5-5F51A05AA4FA%40sbcglobal.net.

Re: Getting Row and Column Headers to Speak in Excel

['Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries]

Is there a way to read headers in Numbers? I have a time sheet, with
Date Clock inClock out   Clock inClock out   time 
worked
That kind of thing, and going back up to the header column is really tedious. 

> On Sep 16, 2019, at 10:46 AM, 'Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi Dave,
> 
> I get it now.  The problem arises from the way that Excel is laid out 
> compared to Numbers.  Notice that the Column headings such as A, B, C etc are 
> handled differently in Excel and Numbers.  In Excel, you can move one row up 
> and read the cell reference letters pertaining to the column headers.  In 
> Numbers, you need to use the VO-back slash command to access these column 
> headers.  This is an inherent difference in that Numbers presents the 
> spreadsheet as. a grouping of tables each with column and row headers.  This 
> makes it easier to use the VO table commands to work within the Numbers app.  
> Because Excel uses different formatting of the sheet itself, the normal VO 
> table commands do not work as expected.  Excel is an amazing spreadsheet app, 
> and, essentially, is more powerful than Numbers, but from a VO prospective, 
> is not as friendly.  to the sighted user, these issues probably wouldn't 
> present themselves, but to us, they are a barrier.  I totally understand 
> about wanting to know the title of the headers, but I'm thinking that, as 
> you've aptly determined, this is more problematic in Excel than Numbers.
> 
> Sorry I didn't find a solution for you.
> 
> Best.
> 
> 
> Tim Kilburn
> Apple Teacher
> (with Swift Playgrounds Recognition)
> Jamf Certified Associate
> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
> 
> On Sep 16, 2019, at 08:46, Dave Carlson  > wrote:
> 
> Tim,
> You may have already caught the underlying problem: It not the lack of the 
> Column/Row coordinates, it’s that the top row and leftmost column cannot be 
> set up to speak as I navigate the spreadsheet. My large financial sheets  
> elude my brain’s ability to remember just what each row means, or what each 
> column is.
> 
> Dave Carlson
> Pioneer, Farfar, Oregonian, Woodworker, Engineer, and Musician
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
>  
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>  
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at: 
> mk...@ucla.edu  and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can 
> reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com 
>  
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ 
> 
> --- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com 
> .
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/AEE5F10E-A9BF-446B-B0A4-72191B8C94B7%40sbcglobal.net
>  
> .
> 
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
>  
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>  
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at: 
> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>  
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ 
> 
> --- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com 
> .
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/0A12273B-22E9-41FB-AAA9-EDD42A63D909%40me.com
>  
> .

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is 

Re: Getting Row and Column Headers to Speak in Excel

['Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries]

Hi Dave,

I get it now.  The problem arises from the way that Excel is laid out compared 
to Numbers.  Notice that the Column headings such as A, B, C etc are handled 
differently in Excel and Numbers.  In Excel, you can move one row up and read 
the cell reference letters pertaining to the column headers.  In Numbers, you 
need to use the VO-back slash command to access these column headers.  This is 
an inherent difference in that Numbers presents the spreadsheet as. a grouping 
of tables each with column and row headers.  This makes it easier to use the VO 
table commands to work within the Numbers app.  Because Excel uses different 
formatting of the sheet itself, the normal VO table commands do not work as 
expected.  Excel is an amazing spreadsheet app, and, essentially, is more 
powerful than Numbers, but from a VO prospective, is not as friendly.  to the 
sighted user, these issues probably wouldn't present themselves, but to us, 
they are a barrier.  I totally understand about wanting to know the title of 
the headers, but I'm thinking that, as you've aptly determined, this is more 
problematic in Excel than Numbers.

Sorry I didn't find a solution for you.

Best.


Tim Kilburn
Apple Teacher
(with Swift Playgrounds Recognition)
Jamf Certified Associate
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Sep 16, 2019, at 08:46, Dave Carlson  wrote:

Tim,
You may have already caught the underlying problem: It not the lack of the 
Column/Row coordinates, it’s that the top row and leftmost column cannot be set 
up to speak as I navigate the spreadsheet. My large financial sheets  elude my 
brain’s ability to remember just what each row means, or what each column is.

Dave Carlson
Pioneer, Farfar, Oregonian, Woodworker, Engineer, and Musician





-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.
 
If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
 
Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at: 
mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com
 
The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ 

--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com 
.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/AEE5F10E-A9BF-446B-B0A4-72191B8C94B7%40sbcglobal.net
 
.

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/0A12273B-22E9-41FB-AAA9-EDD42A63D909%40me.com.

Re: Getting Row and Column Headers to Speak in Excel

[Dave Carlson]

Tim,
You may have already caught the underlying problem: It not the lack of the 
Column/Row coordinates, it’s that the top row and leftmost column cannot be set 
up to speak as I navigate the spreadsheet. My large financial sheets  elude my 
brain’s ability to remember just what each row means, or what each column is.

Dave Carlson
Pioneer, Farfar, Oregonian, Woodworker, Engineer, and Musician




-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/AEE5F10E-A9BF-446B-B0A4-72191B8C94B7%40sbcglobal.net.

Re: Getting Row and Column Headers to Speak in Excel

[Dave Carlson]

Phil,
While not the answer I wanted, it was not unexpected. But your experiences 
being exactly the same as mine give me more encouragement to go back and start 
working harder with the Numbers app. Except for not being able to quickly jump 
across large blank areas, having the row and column headers speaking is 
essential. Heigh-ho, off to Numbers, I go!

Dave Carlson
Musician, Engineer, Farfar, Oregonian, Woodworker, and Pioneer





-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/B4D1D86E-69D5-4A35-97AD-755AB8BA7D02%40sbcglobal.net.

Re: Getting Row and Column Headers to Speak in Excel

['Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries]

Hi,

Not sure what settings are "negatively" affecting your Mac.  Sorry for the pun, 
I couldn't resist.  Anyway, if I use arrow or tab navigation in Excel, the cell 
reference is announced.  That is, VO will say "23.5, E7".  I can also press 
VO-r or VO-c to have VO announce the row or column that is focused.  You 
certainly are having interesting oddities.  Phil does have a point though in 
that sometimes you have to think outside your JAWS box and figure out how to 
approach these problems from a non-JAWS/PC prospective.  I do admire your 
tenacity though and your persistence with resolving these difficulties and 
becoming more adept at your Mac.  Good on you!  Keep your questions coming, I'm 
confident you'll become a very proficient user.

Later...


Tim Kilburn
Apple Teacher
(with Swift Playgrounds Recognition)
Jamf Certified Associate
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Sep 16, 2019, at 06:54, Phil Halton  wrote:

I think one problem may be that you’re still thinking in terms of jaws and 
windows whilst working on a Mac. When I first transitioned to the Mac someone 
told me to just forget about jaws and work with vo because they are two 
different systems and you can’t transfer functionality of one over to the other 
and vice versa. I was stumped with numbers at first for the same reason you are 
-  skipping over blank spaces but it’s a different concept on the Mac you don’t 
have data areas spaced out around an endless grid, instead  you have a table to 
contain one data set and multiple tables on a canvas. That way you don’t have 
the problem of embedded blanks and the inability to skip past them. Header and 
row columns are spoken perfectly well in numbers, and if you give it a chance, 
and just forget about jaws and excel you Will find that  numbers works 
extremely well. I was a heavy Jaws and XL user to, now I’m a heavy numbers 
user. Good luck to you.

Sent from my IPhone


> On Sep 16, 2019, at 12:30 AM, Dave Carlson  wrote:
> 
> I’m spending a large amount of time re-acquainting myself with Excel on the 
> Mac. It’s my preference because I can very quickly leap from one set of data 
> to another, skipping over all the blanks. Numbers does not offer this.
> 
> Okay, I’ve resolved the negative numbers issue by using Tom as my voice, and 
> showing the minus$ as the format. Now, here’s what could well be a 
> deal-breaker…
> 
> As we all know, without a way to have the top row and left column speaking 
> along with navigating the spreadsheet, we are totally lost. Good old JAWS in 
> Windows provided this — VO apparently does not. All my searching for methods 
> on the web sites to set up a link have failed.
> 
> Am I doomed to use Numbers, simply because it’s the only app that will read 
> those headers while navigating? Or has someone developed scripts to handle 
> it? Help!
> 
> Dave Carlson
> Engineer, Pioneer, Farfar, Woodworker, Musician, and Oregonian
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> --- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/ED262595-57CC-41CB-A44D-C82CC564D116%40sbcglobal.net.

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/7149223F-6663-44AD-9A22-C923E4C357C0%40gmail.com.

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have 

Re: Getting Row and Column Headers to Speak in Excel

[Phil Halton]

I think one problem may be that you’re still thinking in terms of jaws and 
windows whilst working on a Mac. When I first transitioned to the Mac someone 
told me to just forget about jaws and work with vo because they are two 
different systems and you can’t transfer functionality of one over to the other 
and vice versa. I was stumped with numbers at first for the same reason you are 
-  skipping over blank spaces but it’s a different concept on the Mac you don’t 
have data areas spaced out around an endless grid, instead  you have a table to 
contain one data set and multiple tables on a canvas. That way you don’t have 
the problem of embedded blanks and the inability to skip past them. Header and 
row columns are spoken perfectly well in numbers, and if you give it a chance, 
and just forget about jaws and excel you Will find that  numbers works 
extremely well. I was a heavy Jaws and XL user to, now I’m a heavy numbers 
user. Good luck to you.

Sent from my IPhone


> On Sep 16, 2019, at 12:30 AM, Dave Carlson  wrote:
> 
> I’m spending a large amount of time re-acquainting myself with Excel on the 
> Mac. It’s my preference because I can very quickly leap from one set of data 
> to another, skipping over all the blanks. Numbers does not offer this.
> 
> Okay, I’ve resolved the negative numbers issue by using Tom as my voice, and 
> showing the minus$ as the format. Now, here’s what could well be a 
> deal-breaker…
> 
> As we all know, without a way to have the top row and left column speaking 
> along with navigating the spreadsheet, we are totally lost. Good old JAWS in 
> Windows provided this — VO apparently does not. All my searching for methods 
> on the web sites to set up a link have failed.
> 
> Am I doomed to use Numbers, simply because it’s the only app that will read 
> those headers while navigating? Or has someone developed scripts to handle 
> it? Help!
> 
> Dave Carlson
> Engineer, Pioneer, Farfar, Woodworker, Musician, and Oregonian
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> --- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/ED262595-57CC-41CB-A44D-C82CC564D116%40sbcglobal.net.

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/7149223F-6663-44AD-9A22-C923E4C357C0%40gmail.com.