RE: installing windows on macs? What are the advantages/why do people opt for this?
Agreed. I think what I like most about the Mac is that I can run both at once. I like Mac for many tasks, but, honestly, Windows is better at several things. Doesn't matter. When using a Mac, I can run either. Of course, on a Windows machine, I could also run another OS like Linux, but, even as someone that's been to college for Computer Science, and worked professionally as a software engineer, I don't enjoy having to geek out on low level details on most tasks like is required with Linux. For me, anyway, the Mac OS is the most accessible Unix that I know of. It is what I wish Linux could have become. I can get low level if I want, but I don't have to. And, of course, VoiceOver is so much better than Orca, and Alex handily beats all of the speech engines for Linux. I kind of cheer Linux on in a way. This is probably a subject for another thread, but the reason that I think that OS X ended up so much better as a user friendly Unix instead of Linux, is that Linux makes it too easy for everyone to have their own way. Choice is a good thing, but the cost is that everyone has their own way, and trying to make all of those choices fit together/work together is a huge challenge. In some ways, I think that is a harder challenge than what Microsoft has to deal with by getting Windows to run on so many different types of computer components. I used to be for choice over all other considerations, but that peaked when I was a teenager, and was interested in computing for the sake of learning about computing. Now that I need computers for my business, I get real annoyed when I must research a computing problem in too much detail. I *can* figure it out, but I would rather spend my time working with the computer, instead of on it. Anything that saves me time and decreases complexity is worth the money that the person or company is asking. This is why I've switched to Apple stuff, even for situations where I don't use OS X. Bryan -Original Message- From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Kawal Gucukoglu Sent: Friday, June 18, 2010 10:54 PM To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: installing windows on macs? What are the advantages/why do people opt for this? Hi Olivia. I thought I'd reply to some of your message. The reason why I have windows on my Mac is: 1. I need to keep my windows mobile up-to-date (even though in due course I'll have the Iphone. 2. The reason why I switched to the Mac was my constant losing of jaws licence counts. 3. I like to keep my hand in all technology and as Mark has said, sometimes you need windows to run programs such as Goldwave that I use along with a host of windows products which I use from time to time. I'm a great believer of using all the technology available to me and believe in choices and do not wish to keep my eggs in one basket as it were. Kawal. On Jun 18, 2010, at 3:05 PM, Olivia Norman wrote: Hi Everyone, Now, this is just my opinion, so don't flame me to much, OK? :) I just don't understand totally why people install windows on the mac and what they use it for? It seems to me, and my admittedly limited experience with windows over the last few years, that it just simply isn't worth the trouble and expense for most people. Consider that windows isn't accessible out of the box, so you've often got to get some expensive third party solution like Jaws to make it accessible to you, as well as purchasing windows. I guess the question I'm asking here, is if you're going to shell out the cash for windows, and the third party access solutions, why get a mac in te first place? Also, from a VO users prospective, how difficult is it to switch between the two operating systems? I'm just curious, and if you're using windows, I would be interested in knowing why and how you switch between the OS's? Thanks for appeasing my curiosity! I'm sure there are totally good reasons for using windows on a mac, I'd just like to know why/what they are! Olivia Innovation distinguishes between a leader and a follower Steve Jobs -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. Kawal Gucukoglu (E-mail/MSN): kawal_gucuko...@sent.com (Skype ID): kawalgucukoglu (Mobile/Text): +447905618396 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl
Re: installing windows on macs? What are the advantages/why do people opt for this?
There is full support for Exchange and in fact I use Apple Mail and iCal to manage my mail and calendar on the Mac and it works beautifully. The meeting proposals are automatically added to the calendar for me and I simply use iCal to choose if I accept/decline/or tentatively accept a meeting proposal and of course initiate meeting requests. Hmmm, I had not thought of trying the iCal widget to see what info that provides and so I will have to check that out. On Jun 18, 2010, at 9:30 PM, Chris Moore wrote: Fair comments... However, wasn't Exchange support added to Mail with Snow Leopard? Whilst there is a smaller audience on the Mac front who are not requesting VoiceOver support from Developers yet there will quite a wait before we start to see more accessible stuff. Windows has had JAWS, Windows Eyes etc for many many years. VoiceOver is only 5 years old and in my opinion it only became usable fully in October last year. So I think we are doing pretty well all things considered. But I will soon be dipping my toe into the Windows world of accessibility at work. I do hope Logic Pro gains voice over support and Sound Studio etc to help rebalance the situation when it comes to audio. Don't expect support for Reason or record though, the developers have told that it is something they will not be doing. This is where JAWS can have an advantage of VoiceOver, as scripts can be made to over come this. On 19 Jun 2010, at 00:57, Bryan Smart wrote: I like the Mac, too, but it can't do everything. For music and audio production, we now have Pro Tools, but, for many tasks, software systems under Windows like Sonar still have superior access. So, for now, I run Sonar in BootCamp. I run a small business, and use Outlook and Excel extensively. Mac Mail doesn't have any server solution like Exchange. Numbers might be a replacement for Excel, but I have a huge set of templates built up in Excel that I haven't spent the time to convert. There are practically no accessible games for the Mac. The only ones that partly work are Audio Quake and Sound RTS, and those take a huge amount of manual hackery to get going. On Windows, there are several first person shooters (single and network player), RPG games, racing games, strategy/war games, board and card games, etc. If you have a Mac, and you want to use any of that, you need Windows. Plus, there is other specialty software like Klango and TeamTalk that aren't available for the Mac. I realize that this next remark could be taken badly. So, I want you to know that I'm trying to say it as constructively as possible. I might be wrong, but it is my understanding that you got one of the jobs that Apple posted recently. Congratulations. However, you'll poorly serve yourself and your employer if you allow your knowledge of accessible computing to start and stop with OS X. You can't evaluate your work unless you know the works of others such that you can judge your relative success. When I was at Microsoft, for example, people routinely had secondary machines in their offices that ran other OSes (like Linux variants). This was encouraged. If everyone lives in their own little bubble, surrounded by other people at the same company that also share the same little bubble, then entire trends can come and go in the outside world without them even noticing. If you're doing something accessibility related at Apple, then you should have Windows installed on a computer that you must routinely use for some required task, so that you'll force yourself to use it. You don't need to get Jaws. Get Window Eyes. get System Access. The point is to make yourself do something in Windows world so that you can have experience with what they get right, and what they get wrong. Anyway, I hope that you didn't get too upset by my response, either. I don't want to be critical, but, if you're trying to improve the accessibility situation on the Mac, you must know what others are trying. It isn't enough to only live in Mac world. Bryan -Original Message- From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of David McLean Sent: Friday, June 18, 2010 2:19 PM To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: -- SPAM -- Re: installing windows on macs? What are the advantages/why do people opt for this? The only thing I use Windows for, and the only reason I installed it on the Mac as a Vm, is to use Winamp. I like Vlc but I just haven't found anything I like as well as Winamp. Also I've been a Windows used since the mid 90s so there are still a few times such as now with the Audible/Safari problem where it is just more convenient to go back to Windows temporarily. On Jun 18, 2010, at 10:38 AM, Donna Goodin wrote: Hi Olivia, Remember that a lot of us who are coming to the Mac now, have been Windows users for many
Re: installing windows on macs? What are the advantages/why do people opt for this?
Donna, of the sites I have encountered with such, I have not had any problems on my Mac. Interesting that you have had problems. On Jun 18, 2010, at 10:48 PM, Donna Goodin wrote: I assume you're referring to my comment re audio captchas? What I was referring to is that on the Mac, I have had difficulty getting audio captchas to play. The Yahoo site was one place where I ran into this problem. When I went to the same site on my Windows machine, I didn't have a problem in the world. Best, Donna -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: installing windows on macs? What are the advantages/why do people opt for this?
I have, and it really surprised me. I don't think it was a fluke, as I tried repeatedly to get the chaptcha to play. And it's happened a couple of times. I can't remember what the other site was, though. On Jun 19, 2010, at 5:43 AM, Scott Howell wrote: Donna, of the sites I have encountered with such, I have not had any problems on my Mac. Interesting that you have had problems. On Jun 18, 2010, at 10:48 PM, Donna Goodin wrote: I assume you're referring to my comment re audio captchas? What I was referring to is that on the Mac, I have had difficulty getting audio captchas to play. The Yahoo site was one place where I ran into this problem. When I went to the same site on my Windows machine, I didn't have a problem in the world. Best, Donna -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: installing windows on macs? What are the advantages/why do people opt for this?
Hi, Hmm. That's interesting. The only times I've had issues with that is when I'm missing a Safari plugin, and if I'm missing something I'm told what it is and how to get it. Regards, Nic Mobile Me: nic2...@me.com GoogleTalk: chojiro1...@gmail.com Facebook Twitter Skype: Kvalme MSN Messenger: nico...@home3.gvdnet.dk Yahoo! Messenger: cin368 AIM: cincinster On Jun 19, 2010, at 3:19 PM, Donna Goodin wrote: I have, and it really surprised me. I don't think it was a fluke, as I tried repeatedly to get the chaptcha to play. And it's happened a couple of times. I can't remember what the other site was, though. On Jun 19, 2010, at 5:43 AM, Scott Howell wrote: Donna, of the sites I have encountered with such, I have not had any problems on my Mac. Interesting that you have had problems. On Jun 18, 2010, at 10:48 PM, Donna Goodin wrote: I assume you're referring to my comment re audio captchas? What I was referring to is that on the Mac, I have had difficulty getting audio captchas to play. The Yahoo site was one place where I ran into this problem. When I went to the same site on my Windows machine, I didn't have a problem in the world. Best, Donna -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: installing windows on macs? What are the advantages/why do people opt for this?
Well, I'm glad to hear this, actually. But no, I didn't see anything about getting a Safari plug-in. Probably won't get to it for a few days, but maybe I'll go back to Yahoogroups and try again to see what happens. Strange. Donna On Jun 19, 2010, at 9:17 AM, Nicolai Svendsen wrote: Hi, Hmm. That's interesting. The only times I've had issues with that is when I'm missing a Safari plugin, and if I'm missing something I'm told what it is and how to get it. Regards, Nic Mobile Me: nic2...@me.com GoogleTalk: chojiro1...@gmail.com Facebook Twitter Skype: Kvalme MSN Messenger: nico...@home3.gvdnet.dk Yahoo! Messenger: cin368 AIM: cincinster On Jun 19, 2010, at 3:19 PM, Donna Goodin wrote: I have, and it really surprised me. I don't think it was a fluke, as I tried repeatedly to get the chaptcha to play. And it's happened a couple of times. I can't remember what the other site was, though. On Jun 19, 2010, at 5:43 AM, Scott Howell wrote: Donna, of the sites I have encountered with such, I have not had any problems on my Mac. Interesting that you have had problems. On Jun 18, 2010, at 10:48 PM, Donna Goodin wrote: I assume you're referring to my comment re audio captchas? What I was referring to is that on the Mac, I have had difficulty getting audio captchas to play. The Yahoo site was one place where I ran into this problem. When I went to the same site on my Windows machine, I didn't have a problem in the world. Best, Donna -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: installing windows on macs? What are the advantages/why do people opt for this?
Hi Olivia, Remember that a lot of us who are coming to the Mac now, have been Windows users for many years, which means, unfortunately, that we already own that expensive third-party software. :) Speaking only for myself of course, I got a Mac b/c I like the notion of out-of-the-box accessibility, and I want to support Apple in this approach. I would also be happy to stop paying for upgrades to that expensive 3rd-party software. When I bought my Mac, my plan had been to abandon Windows completely, but I have found that simply isn't possible. Right now, there is not a good scanning option for the Mac, unless you want to commit to fine-reader without a demo, and use it in conjunction with Vuescan. My copy of Kurzweil works great, so I continue to scan on my old Windows machine. I also find that some Word docs with tables in them read much better in Windows than on the Mac. I also use the Duxbury translator, which runs under Windows. Also, several of us have noted that audio captchas work much better under windows than they do on the Mac. Moreover, at least on the faculty end, Blackboard works *much better under Windows, in fact, as of last winter, Safari 4 wasn't even supported. So, though I had not planned to continue using Windows, for all of the above reasons, I still do. My solution has been to simply hang onto my Windows machine. But if you can't do that for whatever reason, your only option is to run a dual-boot system on your Mac. I love my Mac, but right now it simply cannot completely replace my Windows machine. So, until it can, I'll be running both. Take care, Donna On Jun 18, 2010, at 10:05 AM, Olivia Norman wrote: Hi Everyone, Now, this is just my opinion, so don't flame me to much, OK? :) I just don't understand totally why people install windows on the mac and what they use it for? It seems to me, and my admittedly limited experience with windows over the last few years, that it just simply isn't worth the trouble and expense for most people. Consider that windows isn't accessible out of the box, so you've often got to get some expensive third party solution like Jaws to make it accessible to you, as well as purchasing windows. I guess the question I'm asking here, is if you're going to shell out the cash for windows, and the third party access solutions, why get a mac in te first place? Also, from a VO users prospective, how difficult is it to switch between the two operating systems? I'm just curious, and if you're using windows, I would be interested in knowing why and how you switch between the OS's? Thanks for appeasing my curiosity! I'm sure there are totally good reasons for using windows on a mac, I'd just like to know why/what they are! Olivia Innovation distinguishes between a leader and a follower Steve Jobs -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: installing windows on macs? What are the advantages/why do people opt for this?
I have parallels installed on my Mac. I already had Windows xp installed via BootCamp which I used rarely for applications that you could not get to run on a Mac back in the day when I used to have a Nokia phone and a Sat nav that was not a tom tom. After losing my site I thought I would install Parallels to take advantage of my boot camp and read that it was better and faster then VMware.'s Fusion. I did needed some sighted assistance to set it up. Not sure if Fusion would be better then this. What I do like is that Zoom on the Mac seems to work on the Windows side too. I have downloaded JAWS 11 demo so I can try and learn it a little before I have to use it at work. I think the majority of people probably use Windows on their Mac occasionally to run the odd application that is not available for the Mac. I know others who use it for gaming. Life would be much easier if my Employer would just let me hook up my Mac to their network, but sadly everything they use is Microsoft. My experience of JAWS so far is awful! I started using VO before learning JAWS which is probably the opposite of most. It feels like taking a step backwards to be honest. Yes lots of things work, but I find it very clumsy not having a rota to flick between forms and headers and stuff. None of this press INS and function key whatever. Maybe in time I might prefer it, but I doubt it as I am a true Mac boy. On 18 Jun 2010, at 15:05, Olivia Norman wrote: Hi Everyone, Now, this is just my opinion, so don't flame me to much, OK? :) I just don't understand totally why people install windows on the mac and what they use it for? It seems to me, and my admittedly limited experience with windows over the last few years, that it just simply isn't worth the trouble and expense for most people. Consider that windows isn't accessible out of the box, so you've often got to get some expensive third party solution like Jaws to make it accessible to you, as well as purchasing windows. I guess the question I'm asking here, is if you're going to shell out the cash for windows, and the third party access solutions, why get a mac in te first place? Also, from a VO users prospective, how difficult is it to switch between the two operating systems? I'm just curious, and if you're using windows, I would be interested in knowing why and how you switch between the OS's? Thanks for appeasing my curiosity! I'm sure there are totally good reasons for using windows on a mac, I'd just like to know why/what they are! Olivia Innovation distinguishes between a leader and a follower Steve Jobs -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
RE: installing windows on macs? What are the advantages/why do people opt for this?
Hello Olivia, I would never dream of flaming you or anyone for asking an honest question. While I'm short on time, I wanted to give you an answer from someone who is not biased against either platform, something that is becoming harder and harder to find, sadly. I find that I am traveling great distances on the weekends, these days. For a while, I would take two computers with me my beloved MacBook Pro 13-inch, and my beloved Acer 7-inch NetBook, simply the most adorable thing I've ever seen. The reason why I take two is probably obvious; there are some programs in Windows 7, such as MS Money and OpenBook, that require Windows. Also, although I know Mac users will hate this, many web pages simply work better with Internet Explorer. Remember, I don't make the news, I simply report it so don't shoot the messenger, OK? (Smile) Also, I use GoldWave and I do so in Windows. Now, keep in mind that while my MacBook Pro is much larger than my cute little NetBook, it gets up to 3 times as long of battery life, it's much faster, and quite frankly, it provides a more enjoyable physical working platform. Now that I have a full working virtual machine with Windows 7 Ultimate with Jaws, I have the best of both worlds on one machine. Less cords to keep track of and a faster computer, to boot. Also, any resources I attach to the Mac, such as my Verizon Wireless AirCard, is automatically available to the Windows 7 virtual machine. Finally, since using Windows 7 Ultimate in a virtual environment, there is no need to run virus scanners or anything else that may slow down the Windows experience for, assuming I keep backup copies of the virtual machine, should anything get corrupted, (not likely to happen) I simply delete the infected machine and replace it with the backup copy complete with everything intact including my installed licensed copy of Jaws. I hope this helps you understand the benefit of a Windows virtual machine on a Mac. Oh! One more thing, with the current problems of Safari 5, it's nice to be able to quickly switch to Internet Explorer to enjoy the web. Olivia, remember, it's all about options and choices, the most wonderful liberty in the universe, to be sure. Have a wonderful day, Mark -Original Message- From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Olivia Norman Sent: Friday, June 18, 2010 7:06 AM To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Subject: installing windows on macs? What are the advantages/why do people opt for this? Hi Everyone, Now, this is just my opinion, so don't flame me to much, OK? :) I just don't understand totally why people install windows on the mac and what they use it for? It seems to me, and my admittedly limited experience with windows over the last few years, that it just simply isn't worth the trouble and expense for most people. Consider that windows isn't accessible out of the box, so you've often got to get some expensive third party solution like Jaws to make it accessible to you, as well as purchasing windows. I guess the question I'm asking here, is if you're going to shell out the cash for windows, and the third party access solutions, why get a mac in te first place? Also, from a VO users prospective, how difficult is it to switch between the two operating systems? I'm just curious, and if you're using windows, I would be interested in knowing why and how you switch between the OS's? Thanks for appeasing my curiosity! I'm sure there are totally good reasons for using windows on a mac, I'd just like to know why/what they are! Olivia Innovation distinguishes between a leader and a follower Steve Jobs -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: installing windows on macs? What are the advantages/why do people opt for this?
Hi. I really miss a good scanning software for the mac. I am using finereader 10 in bootcamp or in vmware. I also like, that you can access your windows files from your mac, if for exampel your windows has broke down, that happens. Another thing is that if you use vmware you can install windows yourself you can do that with xp I am not sure when it comes to windows 7. There are also some good image solutions to backup your windows installation. Bootcamp you can use winclone. IF you make an installation in vmware you can simply backup the folder in which your windows is placed. I would also love if I could do everything with my mac, but it is not possible at the moment. But I love my mac, and I love everything I can do on it. I have got a lot of funy programs for my mac, I have never found for my windows. Best regards Annie. 2010/6/18, Donna Goodin goodi...@msu.edu: Hi Olivia, Remember that a lot of us who are coming to the Mac now, have been Windows users for many years, which means, unfortunately, that we already own that expensive third-party software. :) Speaking only for myself of course, I got a Mac b/c I like the notion of out-of-the-box accessibility, and I want to support Apple in this approach. I would also be happy to stop paying for upgrades to that expensive 3rd-party software. When I bought my Mac, my plan had been to abandon Windows completely, but I have found that simply isn't possible. Right now, there is not a good scanning option for the Mac, unless you want to commit to fine-reader without a demo, and use it in conjunction with Vuescan. My copy of Kurzweil works great, so I continue to scan on my old Windows machine. I also find that some Word docs with tables in them read much better in Windows than on the Mac. I also use the Duxbury translator, which runs under Windows. Also, several of us have noted that audio captchas work much better under windows than they do on the Mac. Moreover, at least on the faculty end, Blackboard works *much better under Windows, in fact, as of last winter, Safari 4 wasn't even supported. So, though I had not planned to continue using Windows, for all of the above reasons, I still do. My solution has been to simply hang onto my Windows machine. But if you can't do that for whatever reason, your only option is to run a dual-boot system on your Mac. I love my Mac, but right now it simply cannot completely replace my Windows machine. So, until it can, I'll be running both. Take care, Donna On Jun 18, 2010, at 10:05 AM, Olivia Norman wrote: Hi Everyone, Now, this is just my opinion, so don't flame me to much, OK? :) I just don't understand totally why people install windows on the mac and what they use it for? It seems to me, and my admittedly limited experience with windows over the last few years, that it just simply isn't worth the trouble and expense for most people. Consider that windows isn't accessible out of the box, so you've often got to get some expensive third party solution like Jaws to make it accessible to you, as well as purchasing windows. I guess the question I'm asking here, is if you're going to shell out the cash for windows, and the third party access solutions, why get a mac in te first place? Also, from a VO users prospective, how difficult is it to switch between the two operating systems? I'm just curious, and if you're using windows, I would be interested in knowing why and how you switch between the OS's? Thanks for appeasing my curiosity! I'm sure there are totally good reasons for using windows on a mac, I'd just like to know why/what they are! Olivia Innovation distinguishes between a leader and a follower Steve Jobs -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: installing windows on macs? What are the advantages/why do people opt for this?
This makes great sense! Thanks for putting this so clearly! I do completely understand where you're coming from, and this is exactly the kind of information I was intersetd in obtaining! I'd probably be more inclined to use windows if screen readers were less expensive and more accessible. If you've already payed the price for jaws, though, I can see the benefits and why you would take this route! :) Olivia Innovation distinguishes between a leader and a follower Steve Jobs On Jun 18, 2010, at 7:38 AM, M. Taylor wrote: Hello Olivia, I would never dream of flaming you or anyone for asking an honest question. While I'm short on time, I wanted to give you an answer from someone who is not biased against either platform, something that is becoming harder and harder to find, sadly. I find that I am traveling great distances on the weekends, these days. For a while, I would take two computers with me my beloved MacBook Pro 13-inch, and my beloved Acer 7-inch NetBook, simply the most adorable thing I've ever seen. The reason why I take two is probably obvious; there are some programs in Windows 7, such as MS Money and OpenBook, that require Windows. Also, although I know Mac users will hate this, many web pages simply work better with Internet Explorer. Remember, I don't make the news, I simply report it so don't shoot the messenger, OK? (Smile) Also, I use GoldWave and I do so in Windows. Now, keep in mind that while my MacBook Pro is much larger than my cute little NetBook, it gets up to 3 times as long of battery life, it's much faster, and quite frankly, it provides a more enjoyable physical working platform. Now that I have a full working virtual machine with Windows 7 Ultimate with Jaws, I have the best of both worlds on one machine. Less cords to keep track of and a faster computer, to boot. Also, any resources I attach to the Mac, such as my Verizon Wireless AirCard, is automatically available to the Windows 7 virtual machine. Finally, since using Windows 7 Ultimate in a virtual environment, there is no need to run virus scanners or anything else that may slow down the Windows experience for, assuming I keep backup copies of the virtual machine, should anything get corrupted, (not likely to happen) I simply delete the infected machine and replace it with the backup copy complete with everything intact including my installed licensed copy of Jaws. I hope this helps you understand the benefit of a Windows virtual machine on a Mac. Oh! One more thing, with the current problems of Safari 5, it's nice to be able to quickly switch to Internet Explorer to enjoy the web. Olivia, remember, it's all about options and choices, the most wonderful liberty in the universe, to be sure. Have a wonderful day, Mark -Original Message- From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Olivia Norman Sent: Friday, June 18, 2010 7:06 AM To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Subject: installing windows on macs? What are the advantages/why do people opt for this? Hi Everyone, Now, this is just my opinion, so don't flame me to much, OK? :) I just don't understand totally why people install windows on the mac and what they use it for? It seems to me, and my admittedly limited experience with windows over the last few years, that it just simply isn't worth the trouble and expense for most people. Consider that windows isn't accessible out of the box, so you've often got to get some expensive third party solution like Jaws to make it accessible to you, as well as purchasing windows. I guess the question I'm asking here, is if you're going to shell out the cash for windows, and the third party access solutions, why get a mac in te first place? Also, from a VO users prospective, how difficult is it to switch between the two operating systems? I'm just curious, and if you're using windows, I would be interested in knowing why and how you switch between the OS's? Thanks for appeasing my curiosity! I'm sure there are totally good reasons for using windows on a mac, I'd just like to know why/what they are! Olivia Innovation distinguishes between a leader and a follower Steve Jobs -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at
Re: installing windows on macs? What are the advantages/why do people opt for this?
Well put Mark. You know? A lot of times we do things just because we can. Like owning 2 pairs of sneakers. lol. You can only wear one pair at a time right? lol. But it just boils down to flexibility. There are things that the Mac with voiceover just don't or can't do at this point. Windows and a 3rd party screenreader fills this void for some people. On Jun 18, 2010, at 10:38 AM, M. Taylor wrote: Hello Olivia, I would never dream of flaming you or anyone for asking an honest question. While I'm short on time, I wanted to give you an answer from someone who is not biased against either platform, something that is becoming harder and harder to find, sadly. I find that I am traveling great distances on the weekends, these days. For a while, I would take two computers with me my beloved MacBook Pro 13-inch, and my beloved Acer 7-inch NetBook, simply the most adorable thing I've ever seen. The reason why I take two is probably obvious; there are some programs in Windows 7, such as MS Money and OpenBook, that require Windows. Also, although I know Mac users will hate this, many web pages simply work better with Internet Explorer. Remember, I don't make the news, I simply report it so don't shoot the messenger, OK? (Smile) Also, I use GoldWave and I do so in Windows. Now, keep in mind that while my MacBook Pro is much larger than my cute little NetBook, it gets up to 3 times as long of battery life, it's much faster, and quite frankly, it provides a more enjoyable physical working platform. Now that I have a full working virtual machine with Windows 7 Ultimate with Jaws, I have the best of both worlds on one machine. Less cords to keep track of and a faster computer, to boot. Also, any resources I attach to the Mac, such as my Verizon Wireless AirCard, is automatically available to the Windows 7 virtual machine. Finally, since using Windows 7 Ultimate in a virtual environment, there is no need to run virus scanners or anything else that may slow down the Windows experience for, assuming I keep backup copies of the virtual machine, should anything get corrupted, (not likely to happen) I simply delete the infected machine and replace it with the backup copy complete with everything intact including my installed licensed copy of Jaws. I hope this helps you understand the benefit of a Windows virtual machine on a Mac. Oh! One more thing, with the current problems of Safari 5, it's nice to be able to quickly switch to Internet Explorer to enjoy the web. Olivia, remember, it's all about options and choices, the most wonderful liberty in the universe, to be sure. Have a wonderful day, Mark -Original Message- From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Olivia Norman Sent: Friday, June 18, 2010 7:06 AM To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Subject: installing windows on macs? What are the advantages/why do people opt for this? Hi Everyone, Now, this is just my opinion, so don't flame me to much, OK? :) I just don't understand totally why people install windows on the mac and what they use it for? It seems to me, and my admittedly limited experience with windows over the last few years, that it just simply isn't worth the trouble and expense for most people. Consider that windows isn't accessible out of the box, so you've often got to get some expensive third party solution like Jaws to make it accessible to you, as well as purchasing windows. I guess the question I'm asking here, is if you're going to shell out the cash for windows, and the third party access solutions, why get a mac in te first place? Also, from a VO users prospective, how difficult is it to switch between the two operating systems? I'm just curious, and if you're using windows, I would be interested in knowing why and how you switch between the OS's? Thanks for appeasing my curiosity! I'm sure there are totally good reasons for using windows on a mac, I'd just like to know why/what they are! Olivia Innovation distinguishes between a leader and a follower Steve Jobs -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
Re: installing windows on macs? What are the advantages/why do people opt for this?
Sometimes it's a matter of circomstances... For example, I once upon a time took an online course for the blind. I had me a copy of windows xp pro from the machine that died and was replaced by my mac. At this time, we were using a ventrillo server to attend classes and the windows version worked better than the mac one. I also had iwork 08 which had not been made accessible, so at the time and for that place a vm running the hated os, with some slightly dated third party access solution fit the need for that time and place. On 2010-06-18, at 10:05 AM, Olivia Norman wrote: Hi Everyone, Now, this is just my opinion, so don't flame me to much, OK? :) I just don't understand totally why people install windows on the mac and what they use it for? It seems to me, and my admittedly limited experience with windows over the last few years, that it just simply isn't worth the trouble and expense for most people. Consider that windows isn't accessible out of the box, so you've often got to get some expensive third party solution like Jaws to make it accessible to you, as well as purchasing windows. I guess the question I'm asking here, is if you're going to shell out the cash for windows, and the third party access solutions, why get a mac in te first place? Also, from a VO users prospective, how difficult is it to switch between the two operating systems? I'm just curious, and if you're using windows, I would be interested in knowing why and how you switch between the OS's? Thanks for appeasing my curiosity! I'm sure there are totally good reasons for using windows on a mac, I'd just like to know why/what they are! Olivia Innovation distinguishes between a leader and a follower Steve Jobs -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: installing windows on macs? What are the advantages/why do people opt for this?
You're like me! I'm a true mac fan girl, and I'd never use jaws again, personally. I'm pretty lucky because I can use my mac at work, but I know unfortunately, that most places are still using windows and microsoft. I hope you're able to figure out jaws enough to use it for work. I am sure that there are people on this list who can give you some jaws tips and tricks. Olivia Innovation distinguishes between a leader and a follower Steve Jobs On Jun 18, 2010, at 7:28 AM, Chris Moore wrote: I have parallels installed on my Mac. I already had Windows xp installed via BootCamp which I used rarely for applications that you could not get to run on a Mac back in the day when I used to have a Nokia phone and a Sat nav that was not a tom tom. After losing my site I thought I would install Parallels to take advantage of my boot camp and read that it was better and faster then VMware.'s Fusion. I did needed some sighted assistance to set it up. Not sure if Fusion would be better then this. What I do like is that Zoom on the Mac seems to work on the Windows side too. I have downloaded JAWS 11 demo so I can try and learn it a little before I have to use it at work. I think the majority of people probably use Windows on their Mac occasionally to run the odd application that is not available for the Mac. I know others who use it for gaming. Life would be much easier if my Employer would just let me hook up my Mac to their network, but sadly everything they use is Microsoft. My experience of JAWS so far is awful! I started using VO before learning JAWS which is probably the opposite of most. It feels like taking a step backwards to be honest. Yes lots of things work, but I find it very clumsy not having a rota to flick between forms and headers and stuff. None of this press INS and function key whatever. Maybe in time I might prefer it, but I doubt it as I am a true Mac boy. On 18 Jun 2010, at 15:05, Olivia Norman wrote: Hi Everyone, Now, this is just my opinion, so don't flame me to much, OK? :) I just don't understand totally why people install windows on the mac and what they use it for? It seems to me, and my admittedly limited experience with windows over the last few years, that it just simply isn't worth the trouble and expense for most people. Consider that windows isn't accessible out of the box, so you've often got to get some expensive third party solution like Jaws to make it accessible to you, as well as purchasing windows. I guess the question I'm asking here, is if you're going to shell out the cash for windows, and the third party access solutions, why get a mac in te first place? Also, from a VO users prospective, how difficult is it to switch between the two operating systems? I'm just curious, and if you're using windows, I would be interested in knowing why and how you switch between the OS's? Thanks for appeasing my curiosity! I'm sure there are totally good reasons for using windows on a mac, I'd just like to know why/what they are! Olivia Innovation distinguishes between a leader and a follower Steve Jobs -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: installing windows on macs? What are the advantages/why do people opt for this?
It's interesting that blackboard didn't work for you. I was a student for a year lst winter, and I got great results with blackboard and safari. Hopefully, the mac will soon replace that expensive third party software for you! :) I totally understand that some still need windows, and I'm kind of enjoying finding out all of this information from all of you! Olivia Innovation distinguishes between a leader and a follower Steve Jobs On Jun 18, 2010, at 7:38 AM, Donna Goodin wrote: Hi Olivia, Remember that a lot of us who are coming to the Mac now, have been Windows users for many years, which means, unfortunately, that we already own that expensive third-party software. :) Speaking only for myself of course, I got a Mac b/c I like the notion of out-of-the-box accessibility, and I want to support Apple in this approach. I would also be happy to stop paying for upgrades to that expensive 3rd-party software. When I bought my Mac, my plan had been to abandon Windows completely, but I have found that simply isn't possible. Right now, there is not a good scanning option for the Mac, unless you want to commit to fine-reader without a demo, and use it in conjunction with Vuescan. My copy of Kurzweil works great, so I continue to scan on my old Windows machine. I also find that some Word docs with tables in them read much better in Windows than on the Mac. I also use the Duxbury translator, which runs under Windows. Also, several of us have noted that audio captchas work much better under windows than they do on the Mac. Moreover, at least on the faculty end, Blackboard works *much better under Windows, in fact, as of last winter, Safari 4 wasn't even supported. So, though I had not planned to continue using Windows, for all of the above reasons, I still do. My solution has been to simply hang onto my Windows machine. But if you can't do that for whatever reason, your only option is to run a dual-boot system on your Mac. I love my Mac, but right now it simply cannot completely replace my Windows machine. So, until it can, I'll be running both. Take care, Donna On Jun 18, 2010, at 10:05 AM, Olivia Norman wrote: Hi Everyone, Now, this is just my opinion, so don't flame me to much, OK? :) I just don't understand totally why people install windows on the mac and what they use it for? It seems to me, and my admittedly limited experience with windows over the last few years, that it just simply isn't worth the trouble and expense for most people. Consider that windows isn't accessible out of the box, so you've often got to get some expensive third party solution like Jaws to make it accessible to you, as well as purchasing windows. I guess the question I'm asking here, is if you're going to shell out the cash for windows, and the third party access solutions, why get a mac in te first place? Also, from a VO users prospective, how difficult is it to switch between the two operating systems? I'm just curious, and if you're using windows, I would be interested in knowing why and how you switch between the OS's? Thanks for appeasing my curiosity! I'm sure there are totally good reasons for using windows on a mac, I'd just like to know why/what they are! Olivia Innovation distinguishes between a leader and a follower Steve Jobs -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: installing windows on macs? What are the advantages/why do people opt for this?
Hello, I am in the same boat. I have a lot of scanning to do, and started law school 2 years ago. There wasn't any great OCR solution for the mac, so I decided to install windows XP and kurzweil via fusion on my machine. I still use it to this day just for that purpose, but have replaced windows everywhere else. On Jun 18, 2010, at 10:55 AM, Kaare Dehard wrote: Sometimes it's a matter of circomstances... For example, I once upon a time took an online course for the blind. I had me a copy of windows xp pro from the machine that died and was replaced by my mac. At this time, we were using a ventrillo server to attend classes and the windows version worked better than the mac one. I also had iwork 08 which had not been made accessible, so at the time and for that place a vm running the hated os, with some slightly dated third party access solution fit the need for that time and place. On 2010-06-18, at 10:05 AM, Olivia Norman wrote: Hi Everyone, Now, this is just my opinion, so don't flame me to much, OK? :) I just don't understand totally why people install windows on the mac and what they use it for? It seems to me, and my admittedly limited experience with windows over the last few years, that it just simply isn't worth the trouble and expense for most people. Consider that windows isn't accessible out of the box, so you've often got to get some expensive third party solution like Jaws to make it accessible to you, as well as purchasing windows. I guess the question I'm asking here, is if you're going to shell out the cash for windows, and the third party access solutions, why get a mac in te first place? Also, from a VO users prospective, how difficult is it to switch between the two operating systems? I'm just curious, and if you're using windows, I would be interested in knowing why and how you switch between the OS's? Thanks for appeasing my curiosity! I'm sure there are totally good reasons for using windows on a mac, I'd just like to know why/what they are! Olivia Innovation distinguishes between a leader and a follower Steve Jobs -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: installing windows on macs? What are the advantages/why do people opt for this?
Hi John, I have a copy of fusion and was planning to port an xp set up over to my Mac with the K1000. I'm using a bookedge scanner, and its driver installation is a bit nonstandard, hence the desire to port over, rather than just getting win7 and startig fresh. What scanner are you using with your k1000 and your fusion on your mac? Mary -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: installing windows on macs? What are the advantages/why do people opt for this?
Hello Mary, The scanner I'm using is a fujitsu fi-6230. I like the scanner because of its super fast document feeder. You can get that bad boy going at sixty pages per minute. The other nice thing is that the document feeder supports double sided scanning, so where applicable you get both pages on a single pass. Some people will probably want to wring my neck for saying this, but when I scan books I get much better results when I unbind them, and feed the pages through the ADF. The flatbed is pretty good on this thing for other types of documents, but it really makes a mess when trying to recognize book pages. I haven't figured out why. John On Jun 18, 2010, at 11:48 AM, Mary Otten wrote: Hi John, I have a copy of fusion and was planning to port an xp set up over to my Mac with the K1000. I'm using a bookedge scanner, and its driver installation is a bit nonstandard, hence the desire to port over, rather than just getting win7 and startig fresh. What scanner are you using with your k1000 and your fusion on your mac? Mary -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: installing windows on macs? What are the advantages/why do people opt for this?
Thanks, John. that Fujitsu doesn't sound like the scanner for me. I doubt the library would appreciate me cutting up their books. smile mary -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: installing windows on macs? What are the advantages/why do people opt for this?
Hi Olivia, Well I can of course speak for myself, but let me share a few things with you: 1. I use windows only for school projects/related activities. Specifically I use OUtlook Express to follow the message postings, which are not a typical news group format. I have been after the developers of Unison for quite a while and they keep promising html support, which I think they implemented, but then they went off and broke accessibility of Unison now and I cannot use it for reading the news groups. 2. I am also needing to use Word and Power Point, which I have iWorks, but I have not mastered it sufficiently to write papers. I also do have windows on my MBP at work, however, there it is necessary since I have to be able to work with the software available and They do not offer alternatives yet. I am lucky in that my employer purchased the screen reader, which I can use on more than one machine and I did not have to pay for XP. So I am fortunate, not to have spent any money. Once I can ensure I will turn out good paper s using Pages, then I will have one less reason to waste my time with windows. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: installing windows on macs? What are the advantages/why do people opt for this?
Could you not use a Newsreader on the Mac similar to how news groups are displayed within Outlook Express? I have not used those type of news groups for years, but I am sure there will be something you could get on the Mac, this will mean less time on Windows On 18 Jun 2010, at 18:11, Scott Howell wrote: Hi Olivia, Well I can of course speak for myself, but let me share a few things with you: 1. I use windows only for school projects/related activities. Specifically I use OUtlook Express to follow the message postings, which are not a typical news group format. I have been after the developers of Unison for quite a while and they keep promising html support, which I think they implemented, but then they went off and broke accessibility of Unison now and I cannot use it for reading the news groups. 2. I am also needing to use Word and Power Point, which I have iWorks, but I have not mastered it sufficiently to write papers. I also do have windows on my MBP at work, however, there it is necessary since I have to be able to work with the software available and They do not offer alternatives yet. I am lucky in that my employer purchased the screen reader, which I can use on more than one machine and I did not have to pay for XP. So I am fortunate, not to have spent any money. Once I can ensure I will turn out good paper s using Pages, then I will have one less reason to waste my time with windows. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: installing windows on macs? What are the advantages/why do people opt for this?
Donna, Excuse my ignorance, but what audio software do you use on Windows and for what purpose? Chris On 18 Jun 2010, at 15:38, Donna Goodin wrote: Hi Olivia, Remember that a lot of us who are coming to the Mac now, have been Windows users for many years, which means, unfortunately, that we already own that expensive third-party software. :) Speaking only for myself of course, I got a Mac b/c I like the notion of out-of-the-box accessibility, and I want to support Apple in this approach. I would also be happy to stop paying for upgrades to that expensive 3rd-party software. When I bought my Mac, my plan had been to abandon Windows completely, but I have found that simply isn't possible. Right now, there is not a good scanning option for the Mac, unless you want to commit to fine-reader without a demo, and use it in conjunction with Vuescan. My copy of Kurzweil works great, so I continue to scan on my old Windows machine. I also find that some Word docs with tables in them read much better in Windows than on the Mac. I also use the Duxbury translator, which runs under Windows. Also, several of us have noted that audio captchas work much better under windows than they do on the Mac. Moreover, at least on the faculty end, Blackboard works *much better under Windows, in fact, as of last winter, Safari 4 wasn't even supported. So, though I had not planned to continue using Windows, for all of the above reasons, I still do. My solution has been to simply hang onto my Windows machine. But if you can't do that for whatever reason, your only option is to run a dual-boot system on your Mac. I love my Mac, but right now it simply cannot completely replace my Windows machine. So, until it can, I'll be running both. Take care, Donna On Jun 18, 2010, at 10:05 AM, Olivia Norman wrote: Hi Everyone, Now, this is just my opinion, so don't flame me to much, OK? :) I just don't understand totally why people install windows on the mac and what they use it for? It seems to me, and my admittedly limited experience with windows over the last few years, that it just simply isn't worth the trouble and expense for most people. Consider that windows isn't accessible out of the box, so you've often got to get some expensive third party solution like Jaws to make it accessible to you, as well as purchasing windows. I guess the question I'm asking here, is if you're going to shell out the cash for windows, and the third party access solutions, why get a mac in te first place? Also, from a VO users prospective, how difficult is it to switch between the two operating systems? I'm just curious, and if you're using windows, I would be interested in knowing why and how you switch between the OS's? Thanks for appeasing my curiosity! I'm sure there are totally good reasons for using windows on a mac, I'd just like to know why/what they are! Olivia Innovation distinguishes between a leader and a follower Steve Jobs -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: -- SPAM -- Re: installing windows on macs? What are the advantages/why do people opt for this?
The only thing I use Windows for, and the only reason I installed it on the Mac as a Vm, is to use Winamp. I like Vlc but I just haven't found anything I like as well as Winamp. Also I've been a Windows used since the mid 90s so there are still a few times such as now with the Audible/Safari problem where it is just more convenient to go back to Windows temporarily. On Jun 18, 2010, at 10:38 AM, Donna Goodin wrote: Hi Olivia, Remember that a lot of us who are coming to the Mac now, have been Windows users for many years, which means, unfortunately, that we already own that expensive third-party software. :) Speaking only for myself of course, I got a Mac b/c I like the notion of out-of-the-box accessibility, and I want to support Apple in this approach. I would also be happy to stop paying for upgrades to that expensive 3rd-party software. When I bought my Mac, my plan had been to abandon Windows completely, but I have found that simply isn't possible. Right now, there is not a good scanning option for the Mac, unless you want to commit to fine-reader without a demo, and use it in conjunction with Vuescan. My copy of Kurzweil works great, so I continue to scan on my old Windows machine. I also find that some Word docs with tables in them read much better in Windows than on the Mac. I also use the Duxbury translator, which runs under Windows. Also, several of us have noted that audio captchas work much better under windows than they do on the Mac. Moreover, at least on the faculty end, Blackboard works *much better under Windows, in fact, as of last winter, Safari 4 wasn't even supported. So, though I had not planned to continue using Windows, for all of the above reasons, I still do. My solution has been to simply hang onto my Windows machine. But if you can't do that for whatever reason, your only option is to run a dual-boot system on your Mac. I love my Mac, but right now it simply cannot completely replace my Windows machine. So, until it can, I'll be running both. Take care, Donna On Jun 18, 2010, at 10:05 AM, Olivia Norman wrote: Hi Everyone, Now, this is just my opinion, so don't flame me to much, OK? :) I just don't understand totally why people install windows on the mac and what they use it for? It seems to me, and my admittedly limited experience with windows over the last few years, that it just simply isn't worth the trouble and expense for most people. Consider that windows isn't accessible out of the box, so you've often got to get some expensive third party solution like Jaws to make it accessible to you, as well as purchasing windows. I guess the question I'm asking here, is if you're going to shell out the cash for windows, and the third party access solutions, why get a mac in te first place? Also, from a VO users prospective, how difficult is it to switch between the two operating systems? I'm just curious, and if you're using windows, I would be interested in knowing why and how you switch between the OS's? Thanks for appeasing my curiosity! I'm sure there are totally good reasons for using windows on a mac, I'd just like to know why/what they are! Olivia Innovation distinguishes between a leader and a follower Steve Jobs -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: installing windows on macs? What are the advantages/why do people opt for this?
Yeah, I took a BLackboard course with safari and it wasn't all that bad. Messaging could use some work, though, as when I tried to message someone it for some reason came out blank on their end. On Jun 18, 2010, at 11:00 AM, Olivia Norman wrote: It's interesting that blackboard didn't work for you. I was a student for a year lst winter, and I got great results with blackboard and safari. Hopefully, the mac will soon replace that expensive third party software for you! :) I totally understand that some still need windows, and I'm kind of enjoying finding out all of this information from all of you! Olivia Innovation distinguishes between a leader and a follower Steve Jobs On Jun 18, 2010, at 7:38 AM, Donna Goodin wrote: Hi Olivia, Remember that a lot of us who are coming to the Mac now, have been Windows users for many years, which means, unfortunately, that we already own that expensive third-party software. :) Speaking only for myself of course, I got a Mac b/c I like the notion of out-of-the-box accessibility, and I want to support Apple in this approach. I would also be happy to stop paying for upgrades to that expensive 3rd-party software. When I bought my Mac, my plan had been to abandon Windows completely, but I have found that simply isn't possible. Right now, there is not a good scanning option for the Mac, unless you want to commit to fine-reader without a demo, and use it in conjunction with Vuescan. My copy of Kurzweil works great, so I continue to scan on my old Windows machine. I also find that some Word docs with tables in them read much better in Windows than on the Mac. I also use the Duxbury translator, which runs under Windows. Also, several of us have noted that audio captchas work much better under windows than they do on the Mac. Moreover, at least on the faculty end, Blackboard works *much better under Windows, in fact, as of last winter, Safari 4 wasn't even supported. So, though I had not planned to continue using Windows, for all of the above reasons, I still do. My solution has been to simply hang onto my Windows machine. But if you can't do that for whatever reason, your only option is to run a dual-boot system on your Mac. I love my Mac, but right now it simply cannot completely replace my Windows machine. So, until it can, I'll be running both. Take care, Donna On Jun 18, 2010, at 10:05 AM, Olivia Norman wrote: Hi Everyone, Now, this is just my opinion, so don't flame me to much, OK? :) I just don't understand totally why people install windows on the mac and what they use it for? It seems to me, and my admittedly limited experience with windows over the last few years, that it just simply isn't worth the trouble and expense for most people. Consider that windows isn't accessible out of the box, so you've often got to get some expensive third party solution like Jaws to make it accessible to you, as well as purchasing windows. I guess the question I'm asking here, is if you're going to shell out the cash for windows, and the third party access solutions, why get a mac in te first place? Also, from a VO users prospective, how difficult is it to switch between the two operating systems? I'm just curious, and if you're using windows, I would be interested in knowing why and how you switch between the OS's? Thanks for appeasing my curiosity! I'm sure there are totally good reasons for using windows on a mac, I'd just like to know why/what they are! Olivia Innovation distinguishes between a leader and a follower Steve Jobs -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
Re: installing windows on macs? What are the advantages/why do people opt for this?
The reason i do it as my broadcasting suite uses windows and i don't want to change it, pluss I have ot use sonar to edit and master stuff until I can afford protools le which will be a while but I'm patient. Take care. S On Jun 18, 2010, at 11:43 AM, Ricardo Walker wrote: Hi, It seems that you guys had your success with blackboard from the student end. Donna sounds like she uses blackboard as a faculty member. Maybe there is a subtle difference that impairs the accessibility with VO hth On Jun 18, 2010, at 2:39 PM, Orin wrote: Yeah, I took a BLackboard course with safari and it wasn't all that bad. Messaging could use some work, though, as when I tried to message someone it for some reason came out blank on their end. On Jun 18, 2010, at 11:00 AM, Olivia Norman wrote: It's interesting that blackboard didn't work for you. I was a student for a year lst winter, and I got great results with blackboard and safari. Hopefully, the mac will soon replace that expensive third party software for you! :) I totally understand that some still need windows, and I'm kind of enjoying finding out all of this information from all of you! Olivia Innovation distinguishes between a leader and a follower Steve Jobs On Jun 18, 2010, at 7:38 AM, Donna Goodin wrote: Hi Olivia, Remember that a lot of us who are coming to the Mac now, have been Windows users for many years, which means, unfortunately, that we already own that expensive third-party software. :) Speaking only for myself of course, I got a Mac b/c I like the notion of out-of-the-box accessibility, and I want to support Apple in this approach. I would also be happy to stop paying for upgrades to that expensive 3rd-party software. When I bought my Mac, my plan had been to abandon Windows completely, but I have found that simply isn't possible. Right now, there is not a good scanning option for the Mac, unless you want to commit to fine-reader without a demo, and use it in conjunction with Vuescan. My copy of Kurzweil works great, so I continue to scan on my old Windows machine. I also find that some Word docs with tables in them read much better in Windows than on the Mac. I also use the Duxbury translator, which runs under Windows. Also, several of us have noted that audio captchas work much better under windows than they do on the Mac. Moreover, at least on the faculty end, Blackboard works *much better under Windows, in fact, as of last winter, Safari 4 wasn't even supported. So, though I had not planned to continue using Windows, for all of the above reasons, I still do. My solution has been to simply hang onto my Windows machine. But if you can't do that for whatever reason, your only option is to run a dual-boot system on your Mac. I love my Mac, but right now it simply cannot completely replace my Windows machine. So, until it can, I'll be running both. Take care, Donna On Jun 18, 2010, at 10:05 AM, Olivia Norman wrote: Hi Everyone, Now, this is just my opinion, so don't flame me to much, OK? :) I just don't understand totally why people install windows on the mac and what they use it for? It seems to me, and my admittedly limited experience with windows over the last few years, that it just simply isn't worth the trouble and expense for most people. Consider that windows isn't accessible out of the box, so you've often got to get some expensive third party solution like Jaws to make it accessible to you, as well as purchasing windows. I guess the question I'm asking here, is if you're going to shell out the cash for windows, and the third party access solutions, why get a mac in te first place? Also, from a VO users prospective, how difficult is it to switch between the two operating systems? I'm just curious, and if you're using windows, I would be interested in knowing why and how you switch between the OS's? Thanks for appeasing my curiosity! I'm sure there are totally good reasons for using windows on a mac, I'd just like to know why/what they are! Olivia Innovation distinguishes between a leader and a follower Steve Jobs -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are
Re: installing windows on macs? What are the advantages/why do people opt for this?
Hi! I went through a year of graduate school using pages to write my papers, and the lowest grade I got was a b+. I was able to format correctly, and accomplish all tasks just fine. If you would like some pointers and tips, feel free to email me off list, I'm happy to help! :) Olivia Innovation distinguishes between a leader and a follower Steve Jobs On Jun 18, 2010, at 10:11 AM, Scott Howell wrote: Hi Olivia, Well I can of course speak for myself, but let me share a few things with you: 1. I use windows only for school projects/related activities. Specifically I use OUtlook Express to follow the message postings, which are not a typical news group format. I have been after the developers of Unison for quite a while and they keep promising html support, which I think they implemented, but then they went off and broke accessibility of Unison now and I cannot use it for reading the news groups. 2. I am also needing to use Word and Power Point, which I have iWorks, but I have not mastered it sufficiently to write papers. I also do have windows on my MBP at work, however, there it is necessary since I have to be able to work with the software available and They do not offer alternatives yet. I am lucky in that my employer purchased the screen reader, which I can use on more than one machine and I did not have to pay for XP. So I am fortunate, not to have spent any money. Once I can ensure I will turn out good paper s using Pages, then I will have one less reason to waste my time with windows. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: installing windows on macs? What are the advantages/why do people opt for this?
I like the Mac, too, but it can't do everything. For music and audio production, we now have Pro Tools, but, for many tasks, software systems under Windows like Sonar still have superior access. So, for now, I run Sonar in BootCamp. I run a small business, and use Outlook and Excel extensively. Mac Mail doesn't have any server solution like Exchange. Numbers might be a replacement for Excel, but I have a huge set of templates built up in Excel that I haven't spent the time to convert. There are practically no accessible games for the Mac. The only ones that partly work are Audio Quake and Sound RTS, and those take a huge amount of manual hackery to get going. On Windows, there are several first person shooters (single and network player), RPG games, racing games, strategy/war games, board and card games, etc. If you have a Mac, and you want to use any of that, you need Windows. Plus, there is other specialty software like Klango and TeamTalk that aren't available for the Mac. I realize that this next remark could be taken badly. So, I want you to know that I'm trying to say it as constructively as possible. I might be wrong, but it is my understanding that you got one of the jobs that Apple posted recently. Congratulations. However, you'll poorly serve yourself and your employer if you allow your knowledge of accessible computing to start and stop with OS X. You can't evaluate your work unless you know the works of others such that you can judge your relative success. When I was at Microsoft, for example, people routinely had secondary machines in their offices that ran other OSes (like Linux variants). This was encouraged. If everyone lives in their own little bubble, surrounded by other people at the same company that also share the same little bubble, then entire trends can come and go in the outside world without them even noticing. If you're doing something accessibility related at Apple, then you should have Windows installed on a computer that you must routinely use for some required task, so that you'll force yourself to use it. You don't need to get Jaws. Get Window Eyes. get System Access. The point is to make yourself do something in Windows world so that you can have experience with what they get right, and what they get wrong. Anyway, I hope that you didn't get too upset by my response, either. I don't want to be critical, but, if you're trying to improve the accessibility situation on the Mac, you must know what others are trying. It isn't enough to only live in Mac world. Bryan -Original Message- From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of David McLean Sent: Friday, June 18, 2010 2:19 PM To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: -- SPAM -- Re: installing windows on macs? What are the advantages/why do people opt for this? The only thing I use Windows for, and the only reason I installed it on the Mac as a Vm, is to use Winamp. I like Vlc but I just haven't found anything I like as well as Winamp. Also I've been a Windows used since the mid 90s so there are still a few times such as now with the Audible/Safari problem where it is just more convenient to go back to Windows temporarily. On Jun 18, 2010, at 10:38 AM, Donna Goodin wrote: Hi Olivia, Remember that a lot of us who are coming to the Mac now, have been Windows users for many years, which means, unfortunately, that we already own that expensive third-party software. :) Speaking only for myself of course, I got a Mac b/c I like the notion of out-of-the-box accessibility, and I want to support Apple in this approach. I would also be happy to stop paying for upgrades to that expensive 3rd-party software. When I bought my Mac, my plan had been to abandon Windows completely, but I have found that simply isn't possible. Right now, there is not a good scanning option for the Mac, unless you want to commit to fine-reader without a demo, and use it in conjunction with Vuescan. My copy of Kurzweil works great, so I continue to scan on my old Windows machine. I also find that some Word docs with tables in them read much better in Windows than on the Mac. I also use the Duxbury translator, which runs under Windows. Also, several of us have noted that audio captchas work much better under windows than they do on the Mac. Moreover, at least on the faculty end, Blackboard works *much better under Windows, in fact, as of last winter, Safari 4 wasn't even supported. So, though I had not planned to continue using Windows, for all of the above reasons, I still do. My solution has been to simply hang onto my Windows machine. But if you can't do that for whatever reason, your only option is to run a dual-boot system on your Mac. I love my Mac, but right now it simply cannot completely replace my Windows machine. So, until it can, I'll be running both. Take care, Donna On Jun 18, 2010
Re: installing windows on macs? What are the advantages/why do people opt for this?
Fair comments... However, wasn't Exchange support added to Mail with Snow Leopard? Whilst there is a smaller audience on the Mac front who are not requesting VoiceOver support from Developers yet there will quite a wait before we start to see more accessible stuff. Windows has had JAWS, Windows Eyes etc for many many years. VoiceOver is only 5 years old and in my opinion it only became usable fully in October last year. So I think we are doing pretty well all things considered. But I will soon be dipping my toe into the Windows world of accessibility at work. I do hope Logic Pro gains voice over support and Sound Studio etc to help rebalance the situation when it comes to audio. Don't expect support for Reason or record though, the developers have told that it is something they will not be doing. This is where JAWS can have an advantage of VoiceOver, as scripts can be made to over come this. On 19 Jun 2010, at 00:57, Bryan Smart wrote: I like the Mac, too, but it can't do everything. For music and audio production, we now have Pro Tools, but, for many tasks, software systems under Windows like Sonar still have superior access. So, for now, I run Sonar in BootCamp. I run a small business, and use Outlook and Excel extensively. Mac Mail doesn't have any server solution like Exchange. Numbers might be a replacement for Excel, but I have a huge set of templates built up in Excel that I haven't spent the time to convert. There are practically no accessible games for the Mac. The only ones that partly work are Audio Quake and Sound RTS, and those take a huge amount of manual hackery to get going. On Windows, there are several first person shooters (single and network player), RPG games, racing games, strategy/war games, board and card games, etc. If you have a Mac, and you want to use any of that, you need Windows. Plus, there is other specialty software like Klango and TeamTalk that aren't available for the Mac. I realize that this next remark could be taken badly. So, I want you to know that I'm trying to say it as constructively as possible. I might be wrong, but it is my understanding that you got one of the jobs that Apple posted recently. Congratulations. However, you'll poorly serve yourself and your employer if you allow your knowledge of accessible computing to start and stop with OS X. You can't evaluate your work unless you know the works of others such that you can judge your relative success. When I was at Microsoft, for example, people routinely had secondary machines in their offices that ran other OSes (like Linux variants). This was encouraged. If everyone lives in their own little bubble, surrounded by other people at the same company that also share the same little bubble, then entire trends can come and go in the outside world without them even noticing. If you're doing something accessibility related at Apple, then you should have Windows installed on a computer that you must routinely use for some required task, so that you'll force yourself to use it. You don't need to get Jaws. Get Window Eyes. get System Access. The point is to make yourself do something in Windows world so that you can have experience with what they get right, and what they get wrong. Anyway, I hope that you didn't get too upset by my response, either. I don't want to be critical, but, if you're trying to improve the accessibility situation on the Mac, you must know what others are trying. It isn't enough to only live in Mac world. Bryan -Original Message- From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of David McLean Sent: Friday, June 18, 2010 2:19 PM To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: -- SPAM -- Re: installing windows on macs? What are the advantages/why do people opt for this? The only thing I use Windows for, and the only reason I installed it on the Mac as a Vm, is to use Winamp. I like Vlc but I just haven't found anything I like as well as Winamp. Also I've been a Windows used since the mid 90s so there are still a few times such as now with the Audible/Safari problem where it is just more convenient to go back to Windows temporarily. On Jun 18, 2010, at 10:38 AM, Donna Goodin wrote: Hi Olivia, Remember that a lot of us who are coming to the Mac now, have been Windows users for many years, which means, unfortunately, that we already own that expensive third-party software. :) Speaking only for myself of course, I got a Mac b/c I like the notion of out-of-the-box accessibility, and I want to support Apple in this approach. I would also be happy to stop paying for upgrades to that expensive 3rd-party software. When I bought my Mac, my plan had been to abandon Windows completely, but I have found that simply isn't possible. Right now, there is not a good scanning option for the Mac, unless you want
Re: installing windows on macs? What are the advantages/why do people opt for this?
My school mail is Microsoft Exchange and I get it on the Mac running Snow Leopard. On Jun 18, 2010, at 9:30 PM, Chris Moore wrote: Fair comments... However, wasn't Exchange support added to Mail with Snow Leopard? Whilst there is a smaller audience on the Mac front who are not requesting VoiceOver support from Developers yet there will quite a wait before we start to see more accessible stuff. Windows has had JAWS, Windows Eyes etc for many many years. VoiceOver is only 5 years old and in my opinion it only became usable fully in October last year. So I think we are doing pretty well all things considered. But I will soon be dipping my toe into the Windows world of accessibility at work. I do hope Logic Pro gains voice over support and Sound Studio etc to help rebalance the situation when it comes to audio. Don't expect support for Reason or record though, the developers have told that it is something they will not be doing. This is where JAWS can have an advantage of VoiceOver, as scripts can be made to over come this. On 19 Jun 2010, at 00:57, Bryan Smart wrote: I like the Mac, too, but it can't do everything. For music and audio production, we now have Pro Tools, but, for many tasks, software systems under Windows like Sonar still have superior access. So, for now, I run Sonar in BootCamp. I run a small business, and use Outlook and Excel extensively. Mac Mail doesn't have any server solution like Exchange. Numbers might be a replacement for Excel, but I have a huge set of templates built up in Excel that I haven't spent the time to convert. There are practically no accessible games for the Mac. The only ones that partly work are Audio Quake and Sound RTS, and those take a huge amount of manual hackery to get going. On Windows, there are several first person shooters (single and network player), RPG games, racing games, strategy/war games, board and card games, etc. If you have a Mac, and you want to use any of that, you need Windows. Plus, there is other specialty software like Klango and TeamTalk that aren't available for the Mac. I realize that this next remark could be taken badly. So, I want you to know that I'm trying to say it as constructively as possible. I might be wrong, but it is my understanding that you got one of the jobs that Apple posted recently. Congratulations. However, you'll poorly serve yourself and your employer if you allow your knowledge of accessible computing to start and stop with OS X. You can't evaluate your work unless you know the works of others such that you can judge your relative success. When I was at Microsoft, for example, people routinely had secondary machines in their offices that ran other OSes (like Linux variants). This was encouraged. If everyone lives in their own little bubble, surrounded by other people at the same company that also share the same little bubble, then entire trends can come and go in the outside world without them even noticing. If you're doing something accessibility related at Apple, then you should have Windows installed on a computer that you must routinely use for some required task, so that you'll force yourself to use it. You don't need to get Jaws. Get Window Eyes. get System Access. The point is to make yourself do something in Windows world so that you can have experience with what they get right, and what they get wrong. Anyway, I hope that you didn't get too upset by my response, either. I don't want to be critical, but, if you're trying to improve the accessibility situation on the Mac, you must know what others are trying. It isn't enough to only live in Mac world. Bryan -Original Message- From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of David McLean Sent: Friday, June 18, 2010 2:19 PM To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: -- SPAM -- Re: installing windows on macs? What are the advantages/why do people opt for this? The only thing I use Windows for, and the only reason I installed it on the Mac as a Vm, is to use Winamp. I like Vlc but I just haven't found anything I like as well as Winamp. Also I've been a Windows used since the mid 90s so there are still a few times such as now with the Audible/Safari problem where it is just more convenient to go back to Windows temporarily. On Jun 18, 2010, at 10:38 AM, Donna Goodin wrote: Hi Olivia, Remember that a lot of us who are coming to the Mac now, have been Windows users for many years, which means, unfortunately, that we already own that expensive third-party software. :) Speaking only for myself of course, I got a Mac b/c I like the notion of out-of-the-box accessibility, and I want to support Apple in this approach. I would also be happy to stop paying for upgrades to that expensive 3rd-party software. When I bought my Mac, my plan had been
Re: installing windows on macs? What are the advantages/why do people opt for this?
I assume you're referring to my comment re audio captchas? What I was referring to is that on the Mac, I have had difficulty getting audio captchas to play. The Yahoo site was one place where I ran into this problem. When I went to the same site on my Windows machine, I didn't have a problem in the world. Best, Donna On Jun 18, 2010, at 1:35 PM, Chris Moore wrote: Donna, Excuse my ignorance, but what audio software do you use on Windows and for what purpose? Chris On 18 Jun 2010, at 15:38, Donna Goodin wrote: Hi Olivia, Remember that a lot of us who are coming to the Mac now, have been Windows users for many years, which means, unfortunately, that we already own that expensive third-party software. :) Speaking only for myself of course, I got a Mac b/c I like the notion of out-of-the-box accessibility, and I want to support Apple in this approach. I would also be happy to stop paying for upgrades to that expensive 3rd-party software. When I bought my Mac, my plan had been to abandon Windows completely, but I have found that simply isn't possible. Right now, there is not a good scanning option for the Mac, unless you want to commit to fine-reader without a demo, and use it in conjunction with Vuescan. My copy of Kurzweil works great, so I continue to scan on my old Windows machine. I also find that some Word docs with tables in them read much better in Windows than on the Mac. I also use the Duxbury translator, which runs under Windows. Also, several of us have noted that audio captchas work much better under windows than they do on the Mac. Moreover, at least on the faculty end, Blackboard works *much better under Windows, in fact, as of last winter, Safari 4 wasn't even supported. So, though I had not planned to continue using Windows, for all of the above reasons, I still do. My solution has been to simply hang onto my Windows machine. But if you can't do that for whatever reason, your only option is to run a dual-boot system on your Mac. I love my Mac, but right now it simply cannot completely replace my Windows machine. So, until it can, I'll be running both. Take care, Donna On Jun 18, 2010, at 10:05 AM, Olivia Norman wrote: Hi Everyone, Now, this is just my opinion, so don't flame me to much, OK? :) I just don't understand totally why people install windows on the mac and what they use it for? It seems to me, and my admittedly limited experience with windows over the last few years, that it just simply isn't worth the trouble and expense for most people. Consider that windows isn't accessible out of the box, so you've often got to get some expensive third party solution like Jaws to make it accessible to you, as well as purchasing windows. I guess the question I'm asking here, is if you're going to shell out the cash for windows, and the third party access solutions, why get a mac in te first place? Also, from a VO users prospective, how difficult is it to switch between the two operating systems? I'm just curious, and if you're using windows, I would be interested in knowing why and how you switch between the OS's? Thanks for appeasing my curiosity! I'm sure there are totally good reasons for using windows on a mac, I'd just like to know why/what they are! Olivia Innovation distinguishes between a leader and a follower Steve Jobs -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: installing windows on macs? What are the advantages/why do people opt for this?
I was unable to enter my students' grades, which is, shall we say, a big problem. :) Donna On Jun 18, 2010, at 2:39 PM, Orin wrote: Yeah, I took a BLackboard course with safari and it wasn't all that bad. Messaging could use some work, though, as when I tried to message someone it for some reason came out blank on their end. On Jun 18, 2010, at 11:00 AM, Olivia Norman wrote: It's interesting that blackboard didn't work for you. I was a student for a year lst winter, and I got great results with blackboard and safari. Hopefully, the mac will soon replace that expensive third party software for you! :) I totally understand that some still need windows, and I'm kind of enjoying finding out all of this information from all of you! Olivia Innovation distinguishes between a leader and a follower Steve Jobs On Jun 18, 2010, at 7:38 AM, Donna Goodin wrote: Hi Olivia, Remember that a lot of us who are coming to the Mac now, have been Windows users for many years, which means, unfortunately, that we already own that expensive third-party software. :) Speaking only for myself of course, I got a Mac b/c I like the notion of out-of-the-box accessibility, and I want to support Apple in this approach. I would also be happy to stop paying for upgrades to that expensive 3rd-party software. When I bought my Mac, my plan had been to abandon Windows completely, but I have found that simply isn't possible. Right now, there is not a good scanning option for the Mac, unless you want to commit to fine-reader without a demo, and use it in conjunction with Vuescan. My copy of Kurzweil works great, so I continue to scan on my old Windows machine. I also find that some Word docs with tables in them read much better in Windows than on the Mac. I also use the Duxbury translator, which runs under Windows. Also, several of us have noted that audio captchas work much better under windows than they do on the Mac. Moreover, at least on the faculty end, Blackboard works *much better under Windows, in fact, as of last winter, Safari 4 wasn't even supported. So, though I had not planned to continue using Windows, for all of the above reasons, I still do. My solution has been to simply hang onto my Windows machine. But if you can't do that for whatever reason, your only option is to run a dual-boot system on your Mac. I love my Mac, but right now it simply cannot completely replace my Windows machine. So, until it can, I'll be running both. Take care, Donna On Jun 18, 2010, at 10:05 AM, Olivia Norman wrote: Hi Everyone, Now, this is just my opinion, so don't flame me to much, OK? :) I just don't understand totally why people install windows on the mac and what they use it for? It seems to me, and my admittedly limited experience with windows over the last few years, that it just simply isn't worth the trouble and expense for most people. Consider that windows isn't accessible out of the box, so you've often got to get some expensive third party solution like Jaws to make it accessible to you, as well as purchasing windows. I guess the question I'm asking here, is if you're going to shell out the cash for windows, and the third party access solutions, why get a mac in te first place? Also, from a VO users prospective, how difficult is it to switch between the two operating systems? I'm just curious, and if you're using windows, I would be interested in knowing why and how you switch between the OS's? Thanks for appeasing my curiosity! I'm sure there are totally good reasons for using windows on a mac, I'd just like to know why/what they are! Olivia Innovation distinguishes between a leader and a follower Steve Jobs -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To
Re: installing windows on macs? What are the advantages/why do people opt for this?
Hi Olivia. I thought I'd reply to some of your message. The reason why I have windows on my Mac is: 1. I need to keep my windows mobile up-to-date (even though in due course I'll have the Iphone. 2. The reason why I switched to the Mac was my constant losing of jaws licence counts. 3. I like to keep my hand in all technology and as Mark has said, sometimes you need windows to run programs such as Goldwave that I use along with a host of windows products which I use from time to time. I'm a great believer of using all the technology available to me and believe in choices and do not wish to keep my eggs in one basket as it were. Kawal. On Jun 18, 2010, at 3:05 PM, Olivia Norman wrote: Hi Everyone, Now, this is just my opinion, so don't flame me to much, OK? :) I just don't understand totally why people install windows on the mac and what they use it for? It seems to me, and my admittedly limited experience with windows over the last few years, that it just simply isn't worth the trouble and expense for most people. Consider that windows isn't accessible out of the box, so you've often got to get some expensive third party solution like Jaws to make it accessible to you, as well as purchasing windows. I guess the question I'm asking here, is if you're going to shell out the cash for windows, and the third party access solutions, why get a mac in te first place? Also, from a VO users prospective, how difficult is it to switch between the two operating systems? I'm just curious, and if you're using windows, I would be interested in knowing why and how you switch between the OS's? Thanks for appeasing my curiosity! I'm sure there are totally good reasons for using windows on a mac, I'd just like to know why/what they are! Olivia Innovation distinguishes between a leader and a follower Steve Jobs -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. Kawal Gucukoglu (E-mail/MSN): kawal_gucuko...@sent.com (Skype ID): kawalgucukoglu (Mobile/Text): +447905618396 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
