Re: clock menu in system preferences - help

[Brad Snyder]

The Mac Buzz is an eye bug event on Clubhouse, held the first and third 
Wednesday of each month at 5:00 PM CST.
Schedule for this event will change in January. However, there is a Mac bus 
scheduled for tomorrow. Link is below.

https://www.clubhouse.com/event/m2jeNgkz

- Brad -

On Dec 14, 2021, at 12:03, Michael Shelman  wrote:

What is Mac Buzz? thanks in advance..

On Thursday, November 18, 2021 at 8:48:36 AM UTC-8 wb...@swbell.net wrote:
> Yes, this also works.
> This is exactly what we discussed in the Mac Buzz last night.
> 
> - Brad -
> 
> 
> On Nov 18, 2021, at 09:56, Patrick Ford  wrote:
> 
> Hi, when you get to the point  in the table after interacting then you can 
> use command plus down arrow and then only use the up arrow to get to the 
> clock menu - it's strange but it works  -
> Come and See
> scripturepass...@groups.io
> 
>> On Nov 18, 2021, at 10:53 AM, Les Kriegler  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Brad,
>> 
>> Okay, I tried your steps. I’m running Monterey. When I get to the empty cell 
>> announcements, I did a VO right arrow. I never heard row 15, rather row 17 
>> which was the first numbered row spoken. So I went back two to what I 
>> thought was Row 15 and heard Fast User Switching. Aside from not finding the 
>> Clock option, this entire procedure seems rather complicated. My one 
>> complaint about Mac software is the need to interact as often as one needs 
>> to do. I did try activating items that were referenced as empty cells, but 
>> again I could not activate the clock. More trouble than it’s worth.
>> Best,
>> 
>> Les
>> 
>>> On Nov 18, 2021, at 10:17 AM, Brad Snyder  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Patrick,
>>> 
>>> Assuming you are running either macOS Big Sur or Monterey, try the 
>>> following, and see if it helps:
>>> 
>>> 1.  Go to System Preferences > Dock & Menu Bar.
>>> 2.  Navigate to the table, and interact with the table using VO + Shift + 
>>> DownArrow.
>>> 3.  Once you have interacted with the table, navigate to the item labeled 
>>> Clock Menu Bar, and stop interacting with the table by pressing VO + Shift 
>>> + UpArrow.
>>> 
>>> Note: There seems to be a VoiceOver issue when navigating this table with 
>>> macOS Monterey, in that labels for some table items are not spoken by 
>>> VoiceOver.  Instead of speaking the correct label name for some items, 
>>> VoiceOver may say Empty Cell, or VoiceOver may speak a row number.
>>> In any case, the Clock Menu Bar item is the 4th row from the bottom of the 
>>> table, which is row 15.
>>> 
>>> 4.  Once you have stoped interacting with the table, navigate using VO + 
>>> RightArrow, until you hear VoiceOver speak Clock, and then Date Options, 
>>> which is followed by several items, that can be selected or unselected to 
>>> suit your preferences.
>>> 5.  Once you have made your selection, close the System Preferences window, 
>>> and you are done.
>>> 
>>> HTH.
>>> 
>>> - Brad -
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Nov 18, 2021, at 05:52, Patrick Ford  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi,
>>> In the clock menu of doc and menus in system preferences I cannot make any 
>>> changes. As I VO right arrow to make a change to the date and time it says 
>>> it is dimmed and checked and some say dimmed and unchecked. How do I make 
>>> the change I wish to make? I know there is a way to have Seri just say the 
>>> time without the date mentioned.
>>> Thanks.
>>> Patrick 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Come and See
>>> scripturepass...@groups.io
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>> Visionaries list.
>>> 
>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners 
>>> or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>> 
>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at: 
>>>  mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
>>> cara...@caraquinn.com
>>> 
>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisi...@googlegroups.com/
>>> --- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
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>>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/83C84EBA-16A6-479D-B20C-819697F3C7A9%40gmail.com.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>> Visionaries list.
>>>  
>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners 
>>> or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>>  
>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at: 
>>> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
>>> cara...@caraquinn.com
>>>  
>>> The archives 

Re: clock menu in system preferences - help

[Michael Shelman]

What is Mac Buzz? thanks in advance..

On Thursday, November 18, 2021 at 8:48:36 AM UTC-8 wb...@swbell.net wrote:

> Yes, this also works.
> This is exactly what we discussed in the Mac Buzz last night.
>
> - Brad -
>
>
> On Nov 18, 2021, at 09:56, Patrick Ford  wrote:
>
> Hi, when you get to the point  in the table after interacting then you can 
> use command plus down arrow and then only use the up arrow to get to the 
> clock menu - it's strange but it works  -
> Come and See
> scripturepass...@groups.io
>
> On Nov 18, 2021, at 10:53 AM, Les Kriegler  wrote:
>
> Hi Brad,
>
> Okay, I tried your steps. I’m running Monterey. When I get to the empty 
> cell announcements, I did a VO right arrow. I never heard row 15, rather 
> row 17 which was the first numbered row spoken. So I went back two to what 
> I thought was Row 15 and heard Fast User Switching. Aside from not finding 
> the Clock option, this entire procedure seems rather complicated. My one 
> complaint about Mac software is the need to interact as often as one needs 
> to do. I did try activating items that were referenced as empty cells, but 
> again I could not activate the clock. More trouble than it’s worth.
> Best,
>
> Les
>
> On Nov 18, 2021, at 10:17 AM, Brad Snyder  wrote:
>
> Hi Patrick,
>
> Assuming you are running either macOS Big Sur or Monterey, try the 
> following, and see if it helps:
>
> 1.  Go to System Preferences > Dock & Menu Bar.
> 2.  Navigate to the table, and interact with the table using VO + Shift + 
> DownArrow.
> 3.  Once you have interacted with the table, navigate to the item 
> labeled Clock Menu Bar, and stop interacting with the table by pressing VO 
> + Shift + UpArrow.
>
> Note: There seems to be a VoiceOver issue when navigating this table with 
> macOS Monterey, in that labels for some table items are not spoken by 
> VoiceOver.  Instead of speaking the correct label name for some items, 
> VoiceOver may say Empty Cell, or VoiceOver may speak a row number.
> In any case, the Clock Menu Bar item is the 4th row from the bottom of the 
> table, which is row 15.
>
> 4.  Once you have stoped interacting with the table, navigate using VO + 
> RightArrow, until you hear VoiceOver speak Clock, and then Date Options, 
> which is followed by several items, that can be selected or unselected to 
> suit your preferences.
> 5.  Once you have made your selection, close the System Preferences 
> window, and you are done.
>
> HTH.
>
> - Brad -
>
>
> On Nov 18, 2021, at 05:52, Patrick Ford  wrote:
>
> Hi,
> In the clock menu of doc and menus in system preferences I cannot make any 
> changes. As I VO right arrow to make a change to the date and time it says 
> it is dimmed and checked and some say dimmed and unchecked. How do I make 
> the change I wish to make? I know there is a way to have Seri just say the 
> time without the date mentioned.
> Thanks.
> Patrick 
>
>
> Come and See
> scripturepass...@groups.io
>
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
> Visionaries list.
>
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or 
> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the 
> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark 
> at:  mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
> cara...@caraquinn.com
>
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisi...@googlegroups.com/ 
> 
> --- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisionarie...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/83C84EBA-16A6-479D-B20C-819697F3C7A9%40gmail.com
> .
>
>
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
> Visionaries list.
>  
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or 
> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the 
> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>  
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at: 
> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
> cara...@caraquinn.com
>  
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisi...@googlegroups.com/ 
> 
> --- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisionarie...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> 

Re: clock menu in system preferences - help

[Jonathan Cohn]

The analog clock puts a small circle in the menu bar with hands  that move 
around the circle. The The digital clock puts 4 digits there with a-colon 
separating the hours from the minutes. 
I had switched mine to analog probably 15 years ago, so that there would be 
more space for other items in that menu. This was especially important with the 
original iMac that had a much lower resolution than todays computers.

Jonathan 

Best wishes,

Jonathan Cohn



> On Nov 20, 2021, at 06:40, Patrick Ford  wrote:
> 
> Hi Jonathan,
> YOu have found the anser! Thanks so much. It worked. I wonder what the 
> difference is between the analog and the digital?
> Thanks again.
> Patrick 
> Come and See
> scripturepassage-subscr...@groups.io 
> 
> 
>> On Nov 18, 2021, at 8:00 PM, Jonathan Cohn > > wrote:
>> 
>> Hello,
>> If you have your clock set to be "analog", then you can not select date 
>> options. I expect this is your issue. I had not seen this control panel in 
>> Monterey yet, and was a bit surprised at its design.
>> Don't forget that you can use the item chooser.
>> 
>>  Best wishes,
>> 
>> Jonathan Cohn
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Nov 18, 2021, at 14:59, Brad Snyder >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> I find that on my Intel Mac mini, running  Monterey, it makes no difference 
>>> whether I interact with the table or not.  Simple arrow-key navigation does 
>>> the trick.
>>> Thanks Tim.
>>> 
>>> - Brad -
>>> 
>>> On Nov 18, 2021, at 12:24, 'Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries 
>>> mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> 
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi,
>>> 
>>> I’ve found that after interacting with the table, you can just use arrows 
>>> without VO and you will not encounter the VO problem.  Just an alternative 
>>> method.  It’s definitely still a bug, although with workarounds.
>>> 
>>> Later…
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Tim Kilburn
>>> Jamf Certified Tech
>>> Apple Professional Learning Specialist
>>> Apple Teacher
>>> (with Swift Playgrounds Recognition)
>>> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
>>> 
 On Nov 18, 2021, at 12:28, Brad Snyder >>> > wrote:
 
 Exactly.
 
 - Brad -
 
 
 On Nov 18, 2021, at 10:51, Herbie Allen >>> > wrote:
 
 Don’t forget guys we  also discussed the alternative method of  navigation 
 without interaction. When you get to the table, do an option down aero, 
 then up aero and you will find the clock menu that way. VO right, and you 
 will see all the options for date and what not.
 Herbie
 
> On Nov 18, 2021, at 09:56, Patrick Ford  > wrote:
> 
> Hi, when you get to the point  in the table after interacting then you 
> can use command plus down arrow and then only use the up arrow to get to 
> the clock menu - it's strange but it works  -
> Come and See
> scripturepassage-subscr...@groups.io 
> 
> 
>> On Nov 18, 2021, at 10:53 AM, Les Kriegler > > wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Brad,
>> 
>> Okay, I tried your steps. I’m running Monterey. When I get to the empty 
>> cell announcements, I did a VO right arrow. I never heard row 15, rather 
>> row 17 which was the first numbered row spoken. So I went back two to 
>> what I thought was Row 15 and heard Fast User Switching. Aside from not 
>> finding the Clock option, this entire procedure seems rather 
>> complicated. My one complaint about Mac software is the need to interact 
>> as often as one needs to do. I did try activating items that were 
>> referenced as empty cells, but again I could not activate the clock. 
>> More trouble than it’s worth.
>> Best,
>> 
>> Les
>> 
>>> On Nov 18, 2021, at 10:17 AM, Brad Snyder >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Patrick,
>>> 
>>> Assuming you are running either macOS Big Sur or Monterey, try the 
>>> following, and see if it helps:
>>> 
>>> 1.  Go to System Preferences > Dock & Menu Bar.
>>> 2.  Navigate to the table, and interact with the table using VO + Shift 
>>> + DownArrow.
>>> 3.  Once you have interacted with the table, navigate to the item 
>>> labeled Clock Menu Bar, and stop interacting with the table by pressing 
>>> VO + Shift + UpArrow.
>>> 
>>> Note: There seems to be a VoiceOver issue when navigating this table 
>>> with macOS Monterey, in that labels for some table items are not spoken 
>>> by VoiceOver.  Instead of speaking the correct label name for some 
>>> items, VoiceOver may say Empty Cell, or VoiceOver may speak a row 
>>> number.
>>> In any case, the Clock Menu Bar item is the 4th row from the bottom of 
>>> the table, which is row 15.
>>> 
>>> 4.  Once you have stoped interacting 

Re: clock menu in system preferences - help

[Patrick Ford]

Hi Jonathan,
YOu have found the anser! Thanks so much. It worked. I wonder what the 
difference is between the analog and the digital?
Thanks again.
Patrick 
Come and See
scripturepassage-subscr...@groups.io

> On Nov 18, 2021, at 8:00 PM, Jonathan Cohn  wrote:
> 
> Hello,
> If you have your clock set to be "analog", then you can not select date 
> options. I expect this is your issue. I had not seen this control panel in 
> Monterey yet, and was a bit surprised at its design.
> Don't forget that you can use the item chooser.
> 
>   Best wishes,
> 
> Jonathan Cohn
> 
> 
> 
>> On Nov 18, 2021, at 14:59, Brad Snyder > > wrote:
>> 
>> I find that on my Intel Mac mini, running  Monterey, it makes no difference 
>> whether I interact with the table or not.  Simple arrow-key navigation does 
>> the trick.
>> Thanks Tim.
>> 
>> - Brad -
>> 
>> On Nov 18, 2021, at 12:24, 'Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries 
>> mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> I’ve found that after interacting with the table, you can just use arrows 
>> without VO and you will not encounter the VO problem.  Just an alternative 
>> method.  It’s definitely still a bug, although with workarounds.
>> 
>> Later…
>> 
>> 
>> Tim Kilburn
>> Jamf Certified Tech
>> Apple Professional Learning Specialist
>> Apple Teacher
>> (with Swift Playgrounds Recognition)
>> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
>> 
>>> On Nov 18, 2021, at 12:28, Brad Snyder >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> Exactly.
>>> 
>>> - Brad -
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Nov 18, 2021, at 10:51, Herbie Allen >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> Don’t forget guys we  also discussed the alternative method of  navigation 
>>> without interaction. When you get to the table, do an option down aero, 
>>> then up aero and you will find the clock menu that way. VO right, and you 
>>> will see all the options for date and what not.
>>> Herbie
>>> 
 On Nov 18, 2021, at 09:56, Patrick Ford >>> > wrote:
 
 Hi, when you get to the point  in the table after interacting then you can 
 use command plus down arrow and then only use the up arrow to get to the 
 clock menu - it's strange but it works  -
 Come and See
 scripturepassage-subscr...@groups.io 
 
 
> On Nov 18, 2021, at 10:53 AM, Les Kriegler  > wrote:
> 
> Hi Brad,
> 
> Okay, I tried your steps. I’m running Monterey. When I get to the empty 
> cell announcements, I did a VO right arrow. I never heard row 15, rather 
> row 17 which was the first numbered row spoken. So I went back two to 
> what I thought was Row 15 and heard Fast User Switching. Aside from not 
> finding the Clock option, this entire procedure seems rather complicated. 
> My one complaint about Mac software is the need to interact as often as 
> one needs to do. I did try activating items that were referenced as empty 
> cells, but again I could not activate the clock. More trouble than it’s 
> worth.
> Best,
> 
> Les
> 
>> On Nov 18, 2021, at 10:17 AM, Brad Snyder > > wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Patrick,
>> 
>> Assuming you are running either macOS Big Sur or Monterey, try the 
>> following, and see if it helps:
>> 
>> 1.  Go to System Preferences > Dock & Menu Bar.
>> 2.  Navigate to the table, and interact with the table using VO + Shift 
>> + DownArrow.
>> 3.  Once you have interacted with the table, navigate to the item 
>> labeled Clock Menu Bar, and stop interacting with the table by pressing 
>> VO + Shift + UpArrow.
>> 
>> Note: There seems to be a VoiceOver issue when navigating this table 
>> with macOS Monterey, in that labels for some table items are not spoken 
>> by VoiceOver.  Instead of speaking the correct label name for some 
>> items, VoiceOver may say Empty Cell, or VoiceOver may speak a row number.
>> In any case, the Clock Menu Bar item is the 4th row from the bottom of 
>> the table, which is row 15.
>> 
>> 4.  Once you have stoped interacting with the table, navigate using VO + 
>> RightArrow, until you hear VoiceOver speak Clock, and then Date Options, 
>> which is followed by several items, that can be selected or unselected 
>> to suit your preferences.
>> 5.  Once you have made your selection, close the System Preferences 
>> window, and you are done.
>> 
>> HTH.
>> 
>> - Brad -
>> 
>> 
>> On Nov 18, 2021, at 05:52, Patrick Ford > > wrote:
>> 
>> Hi,
>> In the clock menu of doc and menus in system preferences I cannot make 
>> any changes. As I VO right arrow to make a change to the date and time 
>> it says it is dimmed and checked and some say dimmed and unchecked. How 

Re: clock menu in system preferences - help

[Jonathan Cohn]

Hello,
If you have your clock set to be "analog", then you can not select date 
options. I expect this is your issue. I had not seen this control panel in 
Monterey yet, and was a bit surprised at its design.
Don't forget that you can use the item chooser.

Best wishes,

Jonathan Cohn



> On Nov 18, 2021, at 14:59, Brad Snyder  wrote:
> 
> I find that on my Intel Mac mini, running  Monterey, it makes no difference 
> whether I interact with the table or not.  Simple arrow-key navigation does 
> the trick.
> Thanks Tim.
> 
> - Brad -
> 
> On Nov 18, 2021, at 12:24, 'Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I’ve found that after interacting with the table, you can just use arrows 
> without VO and you will not encounter the VO problem.  Just an alternative 
> method.  It’s definitely still a bug, although with workarounds.
> 
> Later…
> 
> 
> Tim Kilburn
> Jamf Certified Tech
> Apple Professional Learning Specialist
> Apple Teacher
> (with Swift Playgrounds Recognition)
> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
> 
>> On Nov 18, 2021, at 12:28, Brad Snyder > > wrote:
>> 
>> Exactly.
>> 
>> - Brad -
>> 
>> 
>> On Nov 18, 2021, at 10:51, Herbie Allen > > wrote:
>> 
>> Don’t forget guys we  also discussed the alternative method of  navigation 
>> without interaction. When you get to the table, do an option down aero, then 
>> up aero and you will find the clock menu that way. VO right, and you will 
>> see all the options for date and what not.
>> Herbie
>> 
>>> On Nov 18, 2021, at 09:56, Patrick Ford >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi, when you get to the point  in the table after interacting then you can 
>>> use command plus down arrow and then only use the up arrow to get to the 
>>> clock menu - it's strange but it works  -
>>> Come and See
>>> scripturepassage-subscr...@groups.io 
>>> 
>>> 
 On Nov 18, 2021, at 10:53 AM, Les Kriegler >>> > wrote:
 
 Hi Brad,
 
 Okay, I tried your steps. I’m running Monterey. When I get to the empty 
 cell announcements, I did a VO right arrow. I never heard row 15, rather 
 row 17 which was the first numbered row spoken. So I went back two to what 
 I thought was Row 15 and heard Fast User Switching. Aside from not finding 
 the Clock option, this entire procedure seems rather complicated. My one 
 complaint about Mac software is the need to interact as often as one needs 
 to do. I did try activating items that were referenced as empty cells, but 
 again I could not activate the clock. More trouble than it’s worth.
 Best,
 
 Les
 
> On Nov 18, 2021, at 10:17 AM, Brad Snyder  > wrote:
> 
> Hi Patrick,
> 
> Assuming you are running either macOS Big Sur or Monterey, try the 
> following, and see if it helps:
> 
> 1.  Go to System Preferences > Dock & Menu Bar.
> 2.  Navigate to the table, and interact with the table using VO + Shift + 
> DownArrow.
> 3.  Once you have interacted with the table, navigate to the item labeled 
> Clock Menu Bar, and stop interacting with the table by pressing VO + 
> Shift + UpArrow.
> 
> Note: There seems to be a VoiceOver issue when navigating this table with 
> macOS Monterey, in that labels for some table items are not spoken by 
> VoiceOver.  Instead of speaking the correct label name for some items, 
> VoiceOver may say Empty Cell, or VoiceOver may speak a row number.
> In any case, the Clock Menu Bar item is the 4th row from the bottom of 
> the table, which is row 15.
> 
> 4.  Once you have stoped interacting with the table, navigate using VO + 
> RightArrow, until you hear VoiceOver speak Clock, and then Date Options, 
> which is followed by several items, that can be selected or unselected to 
> suit your preferences.
> 5.  Once you have made your selection, close the System Preferences 
> window, and you are done.
> 
> HTH.
> 
> - Brad -
> 
> 
> On Nov 18, 2021, at 05:52, Patrick Ford  > wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> In the clock menu of doc and menus in system preferences I cannot make 
> any changes. As I VO right arrow to make a change to the date and time it 
> says it is dimmed and checked and some say dimmed and unchecked. How do I 
> make the change I wish to make? I know there is a way to have Seri just 
> say the time without the date mentioned.
> Thanks.
> Patrick 
> 
> 
> Come and See
> scripturepassage-subscr...@groups.io 
> 
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
> Visionaries list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of 

Re: clock menu in system preferences - help

[Brad Snyder]

I find that on my Intel Mac mini, running  Monterey, it makes no difference 
whether I interact with the table or not.  Simple arrow-key navigation does the 
trick.
Thanks Tim.

- Brad -

On Nov 18, 2021, at 12:24, 'Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries 
 wrote:

Hi,

I’ve found that after interacting with the table, you can just use arrows 
without VO and you will not encounter the VO problem.  Just an alternative 
method.  It’s definitely still a bug, although with workarounds.

Later…


Tim Kilburn
Jamf Certified Tech
Apple Professional Learning Specialist
Apple Teacher
(with Swift Playgrounds Recognition)
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

> On Nov 18, 2021, at 12:28, Brad Snyder  wrote:
> 
> Exactly.
> 
> - Brad -
> 
> 
> On Nov 18, 2021, at 10:51, Herbie Allen  wrote:
> 
> Don’t forget guys we  also discussed the alternative method of  navigation 
> without interaction. When you get to the table, do an option down aero, then 
> up aero and you will find the clock menu that way. VO right, and you will see 
> all the options for date and what not.
> Herbie
> 
>> On Nov 18, 2021, at 09:56, Patrick Ford  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi, when you get to the point  in the table after interacting then you can 
>> use command plus down arrow and then only use the up arrow to get to the 
>> clock menu - it's strange but it works  -
>> Come and See
>> scripturepassage-subscr...@groups.io
>> 
>>> On Nov 18, 2021, at 10:53 AM, Les Kriegler  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Brad,
>>> 
>>> Okay, I tried your steps. I’m running Monterey. When I get to the empty 
>>> cell announcements, I did a VO right arrow. I never heard row 15, rather 
>>> row 17 which was the first numbered row spoken. So I went back two to what 
>>> I thought was Row 15 and heard Fast User Switching. Aside from not finding 
>>> the Clock option, this entire procedure seems rather complicated. My one 
>>> complaint about Mac software is the need to interact as often as one needs 
>>> to do. I did try activating items that were referenced as empty cells, but 
>>> again I could not activate the clock. More trouble than it’s worth.
>>> Best,
>>> 
>>> Les
>>> 
 On Nov 18, 2021, at 10:17 AM, Brad Snyder  wrote:
 
 Hi Patrick,
 
 Assuming you are running either macOS Big Sur or Monterey, try the 
 following, and see if it helps:
 
 1.  Go to System Preferences > Dock & Menu Bar.
 2.  Navigate to the table, and interact with the table using VO + Shift + 
 DownArrow.
 3.  Once you have interacted with the table, navigate to the item labeled 
 Clock Menu Bar, and stop interacting with the table by pressing VO + Shift 
 + UpArrow.
 
 Note: There seems to be a VoiceOver issue when navigating this table with 
 macOS Monterey, in that labels for some table items are not spoken by 
 VoiceOver.  Instead of speaking the correct label name for some items, 
 VoiceOver may say Empty Cell, or VoiceOver may speak a row number.
 In any case, the Clock Menu Bar item is the 4th row from the bottom of the 
 table, which is row 15.
 
 4.  Once you have stoped interacting with the table, navigate using VO + 
 RightArrow, until you hear VoiceOver speak Clock, and then Date Options, 
 which is followed by several items, that can be selected or unselected to 
 suit your preferences.
 5.  Once you have made your selection, close the System Preferences 
 window, and you are done.
 
 HTH.
 
 - Brad -
 
 
 On Nov 18, 2021, at 05:52, Patrick Ford  wrote:
 
 Hi,
 In the clock menu of doc and menus in system preferences I cannot make any 
 changes. As I VO right arrow to make a change to the date and time it says 
 it is dimmed and checked and some say dimmed and unchecked. How do I make 
 the change I wish to make? I know there is a way to have Seri just say the 
 time without the date mentioned.
 Thanks.
 Patrick 
 
 
 Come and See
 scripturepassage-subscr...@groups.io
 
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Re: clock menu in system preferences - help

['Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries]

Hi,

I’ve found that after interacting with the table, you can just use arrows 
without VO and you will not encounter the VO problem.  Just an alternative 
method.  It’s definitely still a bug, although with workarounds.

Later…


Tim Kilburn
Jamf Certified Tech
Apple Professional Learning Specialist
Apple Teacher
(with Swift Playgrounds Recognition)
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

> On Nov 18, 2021, at 12:28, Brad Snyder  wrote:
> 
> Exactly.
> 
> - Brad -
> 
> 
> On Nov 18, 2021, at 10:51, Herbie Allen  > wrote:
> 
> Don’t forget guys we  also discussed the alternative method of  navigation 
> without interaction. When you get to the table, do an option down aero, then 
> up aero and you will find the clock menu that way. VO right, and you will see 
> all the options for date and what not.
> Herbie
> 
>> On Nov 18, 2021, at 09:56, Patrick Ford > > wrote:
>> 
>> Hi, when you get to the point  in the table after interacting then you can 
>> use command plus down arrow and then only use the up arrow to get to the 
>> clock menu - it's strange but it works  -
>> Come and See
>> scripturepassage-subscr...@groups.io 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Nov 18, 2021, at 10:53 AM, Les Kriegler >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Brad,
>>> 
>>> Okay, I tried your steps. I’m running Monterey. When I get to the empty 
>>> cell announcements, I did a VO right arrow. I never heard row 15, rather 
>>> row 17 which was the first numbered row spoken. So I went back two to what 
>>> I thought was Row 15 and heard Fast User Switching. Aside from not finding 
>>> the Clock option, this entire procedure seems rather complicated. My one 
>>> complaint about Mac software is the need to interact as often as one needs 
>>> to do. I did try activating items that were referenced as empty cells, but 
>>> again I could not activate the clock. More trouble than it’s worth.
>>> Best,
>>> 
>>> Les
>>> 
 On Nov 18, 2021, at 10:17 AM, Brad Snyder >>> > wrote:
 
 Hi Patrick,
 
 Assuming you are running either macOS Big Sur or Monterey, try the 
 following, and see if it helps:
 
 1.  Go to System Preferences > Dock & Menu Bar.
 2.  Navigate to the table, and interact with the table using VO + Shift + 
 DownArrow.
 3.  Once you have interacted with the table, navigate to the item labeled 
 Clock Menu Bar, and stop interacting with the table by pressing VO + Shift 
 + UpArrow.
 
 Note: There seems to be a VoiceOver issue when navigating this table with 
 macOS Monterey, in that labels for some table items are not spoken by 
 VoiceOver.  Instead of speaking the correct label name for some items, 
 VoiceOver may say Empty Cell, or VoiceOver may speak a row number.
 In any case, the Clock Menu Bar item is the 4th row from the bottom of the 
 table, which is row 15.
 
 4.  Once you have stoped interacting with the table, navigate using VO + 
 RightArrow, until you hear VoiceOver speak Clock, and then Date Options, 
 which is followed by several items, that can be selected or unselected to 
 suit your preferences.
 5.  Once you have made your selection, close the System Preferences 
 window, and you are done.
 
 HTH.
 
 - Brad -
 
 
 On Nov 18, 2021, at 05:52, Patrick Ford >>> > wrote:
 
 Hi,
 In the clock menu of doc and menus in system preferences I cannot make any 
 changes. As I VO right arrow to make a change to the date and time it says 
 it is dimmed and checked and some say dimmed and unchecked. How do I make 
 the change I wish to make? I know there is a way to have Seri just say the 
 time without the date mentioned.
 Thanks.
 Patrick 
 
 
 Come and See
 scripturepassage-subscr...@groups.io 
 
 
 -- 
 The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
 Visionaries list.
 
 If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or 
 if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the 
 owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
 
 Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark 
 at:  mk...@ucla.edu  and your owner is Cara Quinn - 
 you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com 
 
 
 The archives for this list can be searched at:
 http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ 
 
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Re: clock menu in system preferences - help

[Brad Snyder]

Exactly.

- Brad -


On Nov 18, 2021, at 10:51, Herbie Allen  wrote:

Don’t forget guys we  also discussed the alternative method of  navigation 
without interaction. When you get to the table, do an option down aero, then up 
aero and you will find the clock menu that way. VO right, and you will see all 
the options for date and what not.
Herbie

> On Nov 18, 2021, at 09:56, Patrick Ford  > wrote:
> 
> Hi, when you get to the point  in the table after interacting then you can 
> use command plus down arrow and then only use the up arrow to get to the 
> clock menu - it's strange but it works  -
> Come and See
> scripturepassage-subscr...@groups.io 
> 
> 
>> On Nov 18, 2021, at 10:53 AM, Les Kriegler > > wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Brad,
>> 
>> Okay, I tried your steps. I’m running Monterey. When I get to the empty cell 
>> announcements, I did a VO right arrow. I never heard row 15, rather row 17 
>> which was the first numbered row spoken. So I went back two to what I 
>> thought was Row 15 and heard Fast User Switching. Aside from not finding the 
>> Clock option, this entire procedure seems rather complicated. My one 
>> complaint about Mac software is the need to interact as often as one needs 
>> to do. I did try activating items that were referenced as empty cells, but 
>> again I could not activate the clock. More trouble than it’s worth.
>> Best,
>> 
>> Les
>> 
>>> On Nov 18, 2021, at 10:17 AM, Brad Snyder >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Patrick,
>>> 
>>> Assuming you are running either macOS Big Sur or Monterey, try the 
>>> following, and see if it helps:
>>> 
>>> 1.  Go to System Preferences > Dock & Menu Bar.
>>> 2.  Navigate to the table, and interact with the table using VO + Shift + 
>>> DownArrow.
>>> 3.  Once you have interacted with the table, navigate to the item labeled 
>>> Clock Menu Bar, and stop interacting with the table by pressing VO + Shift 
>>> + UpArrow.
>>> 
>>> Note: There seems to be a VoiceOver issue when navigating this table with 
>>> macOS Monterey, in that labels for some table items are not spoken by 
>>> VoiceOver.  Instead of speaking the correct label name for some items, 
>>> VoiceOver may say Empty Cell, or VoiceOver may speak a row number.
>>> In any case, the Clock Menu Bar item is the 4th row from the bottom of the 
>>> table, which is row 15.
>>> 
>>> 4.  Once you have stoped interacting with the table, navigate using VO + 
>>> RightArrow, until you hear VoiceOver speak Clock, and then Date Options, 
>>> which is followed by several items, that can be selected or unselected to 
>>> suit your preferences.
>>> 5.  Once you have made your selection, close the System Preferences window, 
>>> and you are done.
>>> 
>>> HTH.
>>> 
>>> - Brad -
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Nov 18, 2021, at 05:52, Patrick Ford >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi,
>>> In the clock menu of doc and menus in system preferences I cannot make any 
>>> changes. As I VO right arrow to make a change to the date and time it says 
>>> it is dimmed and checked and some say dimmed and unchecked. How do I make 
>>> the change I wish to make? I know there is a way to have Seri just say the 
>>> time without the date mentioned.
>>> Thanks.
>>> Patrick 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Come and See
>>> scripturepassage-subscr...@groups.io 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>> Visionaries list.
>>> 
>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners 
>>> or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>> 
>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at: 
>>>  mk...@ucla.edu  and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
>>> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com 
>>> 
>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ 
>>> 
>>> --- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com 
>>> .
>>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/83C84EBA-16A6-479D-B20C-819697F3C7A9%40gmail.com
>>>  
>>> .
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>> Visionaries list.
>>>  
>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>>> 

Re: clock menu in system preferences - help

[Herbie Allen]

The only uninteracting you should have to do is the search bar, once you find 
the menu, VO right, don’t do anything with interacting.

> On Nov 18, 2021, at 10:58, Patrick Ford  wrote:
> 
> once at the clock menu - stop interacting and then vo right  and find your 
> choices that you need  in the clock  and/or date and time -
> Come and See
> scripturepassage-subscr...@groups.io 
> 
> 
>> On Nov 18, 2021, at 11:51 AM, Les Kriegler > > wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Brad,
>> Your suggestion is well-taken. I will contact Apple. I am able to get to the 
>> clock, I hear Clock Menu Bar but cannot do anything from there. I checked 
>> this out, as I felt I had inadvertently misled Patrick. Well, as they say, 
>> no good deed goes unpunished. Since I got this far, can you explain how I 
>> proceed once reaching the clock Menu bar? By the way, on my system, it is 
>> row 17 according to Voiceover. Thanks for the assist and the procedure.
>> Best Regards,
>> 
>> Les
>> 
>>> On Nov 18, 2021, at 11:47 AM, Brad Snyder >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Les,
>>> 
>>> Sorry to hear you are having difficulty following my instructions.
>>> The Clock Menu item is the 4th item from the bottom of the table.  There is 
>>> no interacting with this item.  You simply stop interacting with the table, 
>>> and navigate to the right using VO + RightArrow.
>>> Other than VoiceOver not reading items in the table, I find this procedure 
>>> works very well.
>>> If you have an issue with this process, I suggest you contact Apple, and 
>>> share your thoughts with them.
>>> 
>>> - Brad -
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Nov 18, 2021, at 09:53, Les Kriegler >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Brad,
>>> 
>>> Okay, I tried your steps. I’m running Monterey. When I get to the empty 
>>> cell announcements, I did a VO right arrow. I never heard row 15, rather 
>>> row 17 which was the first numbered row spoken. So I went back two to what 
>>> I thought was Row 15 and heard Fast User Switching. Aside from not finding 
>>> the Clock option, this entire procedure seems rather complicated. My one 
>>> complaint about Mac software is the need to interact as often as one needs 
>>> to do. I did try activating items that were referenced as empty cells, but 
>>> again I could not activate the clock. More trouble than it’s worth.
>>> Best,
>>> 
>>> Les
>>> 
 On Nov 18, 2021, at 10:17 AM, Brad Snyder >>> > wrote:
 
 Hi Patrick,
 
 Assuming you are running either macOS Big Sur or Monterey, try the 
 following, and see if it helps:
 
 1.  Go to System Preferences > Dock & Menu Bar.
 2.  Navigate to the table, and interact with the table using VO + Shift + 
 DownArrow.
 3.  Once you have interacted with the table, navigate to the item labeled 
 Clock Menu Bar, and stop interacting with the table by pressing VO + Shift 
 + UpArrow.
 
 Note: There seems to be a VoiceOver issue when navigating this table with 
 macOS Monterey, in that labels for some table items are not spoken by 
 VoiceOver.  Instead of speaking the correct label name for some items, 
 VoiceOver may say Empty Cell, or VoiceOver may speak a row number.
 In any case, the Clock Menu Bar item is the 4th row from the bottom of the 
 table, which is row 15.
 
 4.  Once you have stoped interacting with the table, navigate using VO + 
 RightArrow, until you hear VoiceOver speak Clock, and then Date Options, 
 which is followed by several items, that can be selected or unselected to 
 suit your preferences.
 5.  Once you have made your selection, close the System Preferences 
 window, and you are done.
 
 HTH.
 
 - Brad -
 
 
 On Nov 18, 2021, at 05:52, Patrick Ford >>> > wrote:
 
 Hi,
 In the clock menu of doc and menus in system preferences I cannot make any 
 changes. As I VO right arrow to make a change to the date and time it says 
 it is dimmed and checked and some say dimmed and unchecked. How do I make 
 the change I wish to make? I know there is a way to have Seri just say the 
 time without the date mentioned.
 Thanks.
 Patrick 
 
 
 Come and See
 scripturepassage-subscr...@groups.io 
 
 
 -- 
 The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
 Visionaries list.
 
 If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or 
 if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the 
 owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
 
 Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark 
 at:  mk...@ucla.edu  and your owner is Cara Quinn - 
 you can reach Cara at 

Re: clock menu in system preferences - help

[Les Kriegler]

Hi Herbie,
Okay, that procedure worked. I like not having to interact in this case. I hope 
it works for Patrick. Brad, sorry I was snarky, I’m ill and should not have 
bothered with this today.
Best,

Les

> On Nov 18, 2021, at 11:51 AM, Herbie Allen  wrote:
> 
> Don’t forget guys we  also discussed the alternative method of  navigation 
> without interaction. When you get to the table, do an option down aero, then 
> up aero and you will find the clock menu that way. VO right, and you will see 
> all the options for date and what not.
> Herbie
> 
>> On Nov 18, 2021, at 09:56, Patrick Ford > > wrote:
>> 
>> Hi, when you get to the point  in the table after interacting then you can 
>> use command plus down arrow and then only use the up arrow to get to the 
>> clock menu - it's strange but it works  -
>> Come and See
>> scripturepassage-subscr...@groups.io 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Nov 18, 2021, at 10:53 AM, Les Kriegler >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Brad,
>>> 
>>> Okay, I tried your steps. I’m running Monterey. When I get to the empty 
>>> cell announcements, I did a VO right arrow. I never heard row 15, rather 
>>> row 17 which was the first numbered row spoken. So I went back two to what 
>>> I thought was Row 15 and heard Fast User Switching. Aside from not finding 
>>> the Clock option, this entire procedure seems rather complicated. My one 
>>> complaint about Mac software is the need to interact as often as one needs 
>>> to do. I did try activating items that were referenced as empty cells, but 
>>> again I could not activate the clock. More trouble than it’s worth.
>>> Best,
>>> 
>>> Les
>>> 
 On Nov 18, 2021, at 10:17 AM, Brad Snyder >>> > wrote:
 
 Hi Patrick,
 
 Assuming you are running either macOS Big Sur or Monterey, try the 
 following, and see if it helps:
 
 1.  Go to System Preferences > Dock & Menu Bar.
 2.  Navigate to the table, and interact with the table using VO + Shift + 
 DownArrow.
 3.  Once you have interacted with the table, navigate to the item labeled 
 Clock Menu Bar, and stop interacting with the table by pressing VO + Shift 
 + UpArrow.
 
 Note: There seems to be a VoiceOver issue when navigating this table with 
 macOS Monterey, in that labels for some table items are not spoken by 
 VoiceOver.  Instead of speaking the correct label name for some items, 
 VoiceOver may say Empty Cell, or VoiceOver may speak a row number.
 In any case, the Clock Menu Bar item is the 4th row from the bottom of the 
 table, which is row 15.
 
 4.  Once you have stoped interacting with the table, navigate using VO + 
 RightArrow, until you hear VoiceOver speak Clock, and then Date Options, 
 which is followed by several items, that can be selected or unselected to 
 suit your preferences.
 5.  Once you have made your selection, close the System Preferences 
 window, and you are done.
 
 HTH.
 
 - Brad -
 
 
 On Nov 18, 2021, at 05:52, Patrick Ford >>> > wrote:
 
 Hi,
 In the clock menu of doc and menus in system preferences I cannot make any 
 changes. As I VO right arrow to make a change to the date and time it says 
 it is dimmed and checked and some say dimmed and unchecked. How do I make 
 the change I wish to make? I know there is a way to have Seri just say the 
 time without the date mentioned.
 Thanks.
 Patrick 
 
 
 Come and See
 scripturepassage-subscr...@groups.io 
 
 
 -- 
 The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
 Visionaries list.
 
 If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or 
 if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the 
 owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
 
 Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark 
 at:  mk...@ucla.edu  and your owner is Cara Quinn - 
 you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com 
 
 
 The archives for this list can be searched at:
 http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ 
 
 --- 
 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
 "MacVisionaries" group.
 To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
 email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com 
 .
 To view this discussion on the web visit 
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Re: clock menu in system preferences - help

[Patrick Ford]

once at the clock menu - stop interacting and then vo right  and find your 
choices that you need  in the clock  and/or date and time -
Come and See
scripturepassage-subscr...@groups.io

> On Nov 18, 2021, at 11:51 AM, Les Kriegler  wrote:
> 
> Hi Brad,
> Your suggestion is well-taken. I will contact Apple. I am able to get to the 
> clock, I hear Clock Menu Bar but cannot do anything from there. I checked 
> this out, as I felt I had inadvertently misled Patrick. Well, as they say, no 
> good deed goes unpunished. Since I got this far, can you explain how I 
> proceed once reaching the clock Menu bar? By the way, on my system, it is row 
> 17 according to Voiceover. Thanks for the assist and the procedure.
> Best Regards,
> 
> Les
> 
>> On Nov 18, 2021, at 11:47 AM, Brad Snyder > > wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Les,
>> 
>> Sorry to hear you are having difficulty following my instructions.
>> The Clock Menu item is the 4th item from the bottom of the table.  There is 
>> no interacting with this item.  You simply stop interacting with the table, 
>> and navigate to the right using VO + RightArrow.
>> Other than VoiceOver not reading items in the table, I find this procedure 
>> works very well.
>> If you have an issue with this process, I suggest you contact Apple, and 
>> share your thoughts with them.
>> 
>> - Brad -
>> 
>> 
>> On Nov 18, 2021, at 09:53, Les Kriegler > > wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Brad,
>> 
>> Okay, I tried your steps. I’m running Monterey. When I get to the empty cell 
>> announcements, I did a VO right arrow. I never heard row 15, rather row 17 
>> which was the first numbered row spoken. So I went back two to what I 
>> thought was Row 15 and heard Fast User Switching. Aside from not finding the 
>> Clock option, this entire procedure seems rather complicated. My one 
>> complaint about Mac software is the need to interact as often as one needs 
>> to do. I did try activating items that were referenced as empty cells, but 
>> again I could not activate the clock. More trouble than it’s worth.
>> Best,
>> 
>> Les
>> 
>>> On Nov 18, 2021, at 10:17 AM, Brad Snyder >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Patrick,
>>> 
>>> Assuming you are running either macOS Big Sur or Monterey, try the 
>>> following, and see if it helps:
>>> 
>>> 1.  Go to System Preferences > Dock & Menu Bar.
>>> 2.  Navigate to the table, and interact with the table using VO + Shift + 
>>> DownArrow.
>>> 3.  Once you have interacted with the table, navigate to the item labeled 
>>> Clock Menu Bar, and stop interacting with the table by pressing VO + Shift 
>>> + UpArrow.
>>> 
>>> Note: There seems to be a VoiceOver issue when navigating this table with 
>>> macOS Monterey, in that labels for some table items are not spoken by 
>>> VoiceOver.  Instead of speaking the correct label name for some items, 
>>> VoiceOver may say Empty Cell, or VoiceOver may speak a row number.
>>> In any case, the Clock Menu Bar item is the 4th row from the bottom of the 
>>> table, which is row 15.
>>> 
>>> 4.  Once you have stoped interacting with the table, navigate using VO + 
>>> RightArrow, until you hear VoiceOver speak Clock, and then Date Options, 
>>> which is followed by several items, that can be selected or unselected to 
>>> suit your preferences.
>>> 5.  Once you have made your selection, close the System Preferences window, 
>>> and you are done.
>>> 
>>> HTH.
>>> 
>>> - Brad -
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Nov 18, 2021, at 05:52, Patrick Ford >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi,
>>> In the clock menu of doc and menus in system preferences I cannot make any 
>>> changes. As I VO right arrow to make a change to the date and time it says 
>>> it is dimmed and checked and some say dimmed and unchecked. How do I make 
>>> the change I wish to make? I know there is a way to have Seri just say the 
>>> time without the date mentioned.
>>> Thanks.
>>> Patrick 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Come and See
>>> scripturepassage-subscr...@groups.io 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>> Visionaries list.
>>> 
>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners 
>>> or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>> 
>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at: 
>>>  mk...@ucla.edu  and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
>>> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com 
>>> 
>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ 
>>> 
>>> --- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and 

Re: clock menu in system preferences - help

[Patrick Ford]

Hi, yeah I learned this from Wednesday night  on mac buzz - finding the clock 
menu was no issue - my issue is that the choices  are dimmed - 
Come and See
scripturepassage-subscr...@groups.io

> On Nov 18, 2021, at 11:51 AM, Herbie Allen  wrote:
> 
> Don’t forget guys we  also discussed the alternative method of  navigation 
> without interaction. When you get to the table, do an option down aero, then 
> up aero and you will find the clock menu that way. VO right, and you will see 
> all the options for date and what not.
> Herbie
> 
>> On Nov 18, 2021, at 09:56, Patrick Ford > > wrote:
>> 
>> Hi, when you get to the point  in the table after interacting then you can 
>> use command plus down arrow and then only use the up arrow to get to the 
>> clock menu - it's strange but it works  -
>> Come and See
>> scripturepassage-subscr...@groups.io 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Nov 18, 2021, at 10:53 AM, Les Kriegler >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Brad,
>>> 
>>> Okay, I tried your steps. I’m running Monterey. When I get to the empty 
>>> cell announcements, I did a VO right arrow. I never heard row 15, rather 
>>> row 17 which was the first numbered row spoken. So I went back two to what 
>>> I thought was Row 15 and heard Fast User Switching. Aside from not finding 
>>> the Clock option, this entire procedure seems rather complicated. My one 
>>> complaint about Mac software is the need to interact as often as one needs 
>>> to do. I did try activating items that were referenced as empty cells, but 
>>> again I could not activate the clock. More trouble than it’s worth.
>>> Best,
>>> 
>>> Les
>>> 
 On Nov 18, 2021, at 10:17 AM, Brad Snyder >>> > wrote:
 
 Hi Patrick,
 
 Assuming you are running either macOS Big Sur or Monterey, try the 
 following, and see if it helps:
 
 1.  Go to System Preferences > Dock & Menu Bar.
 2.  Navigate to the table, and interact with the table using VO + Shift + 
 DownArrow.
 3.  Once you have interacted with the table, navigate to the item labeled 
 Clock Menu Bar, and stop interacting with the table by pressing VO + Shift 
 + UpArrow.
 
 Note: There seems to be a VoiceOver issue when navigating this table with 
 macOS Monterey, in that labels for some table items are not spoken by 
 VoiceOver.  Instead of speaking the correct label name for some items, 
 VoiceOver may say Empty Cell, or VoiceOver may speak a row number.
 In any case, the Clock Menu Bar item is the 4th row from the bottom of the 
 table, which is row 15.
 
 4.  Once you have stoped interacting with the table, navigate using VO + 
 RightArrow, until you hear VoiceOver speak Clock, and then Date Options, 
 which is followed by several items, that can be selected or unselected to 
 suit your preferences.
 5.  Once you have made your selection, close the System Preferences 
 window, and you are done.
 
 HTH.
 
 - Brad -
 
 
 On Nov 18, 2021, at 05:52, Patrick Ford >>> > wrote:
 
 Hi,
 In the clock menu of doc and menus in system preferences I cannot make any 
 changes. As I VO right arrow to make a change to the date and time it says 
 it is dimmed and checked and some say dimmed and unchecked. How do I make 
 the change I wish to make? I know there is a way to have Seri just say the 
 time without the date mentioned.
 Thanks.
 Patrick 
 
 
 Come and See
 scripturepassage-subscr...@groups.io 
 
 
 -- 
 The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
 Visionaries list.
 
 If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or 
 if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the 
 owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
 
 Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark 
 at:  mk...@ucla.edu  and your owner is Cara Quinn - 
 you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com 
 
 
 The archives for this list can be searched at:
 http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ 
 
 --- 
 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
 "MacVisionaries" group.
 To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
 email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com 
 .
 To view this discussion on the web visit 
 https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/83C84EBA-16A6-479D-B20C-819697F3C7A9%40gmail.com
  
 

Re: clock menu in system preferences - help

[Herbie Allen]

Don’t forget guys we  also discussed the alternative method of  navigation 
without interaction. When you get to the table, do an option down aero, then up 
aero and you will find the clock menu that way. VO right, and you will see all 
the options for date and what not.
Herbie

> On Nov 18, 2021, at 09:56, Patrick Ford  wrote:
> 
> Hi, when you get to the point  in the table after interacting then you can 
> use command plus down arrow and then only use the up arrow to get to the 
> clock menu - it's strange but it works  -
> Come and See
> scripturepassage-subscr...@groups.io 
> 
> 
>> On Nov 18, 2021, at 10:53 AM, Les Kriegler > > wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Brad,
>> 
>> Okay, I tried your steps. I’m running Monterey. When I get to the empty cell 
>> announcements, I did a VO right arrow. I never heard row 15, rather row 17 
>> which was the first numbered row spoken. So I went back two to what I 
>> thought was Row 15 and heard Fast User Switching. Aside from not finding the 
>> Clock option, this entire procedure seems rather complicated. My one 
>> complaint about Mac software is the need to interact as often as one needs 
>> to do. I did try activating items that were referenced as empty cells, but 
>> again I could not activate the clock. More trouble than it’s worth.
>> Best,
>> 
>> Les
>> 
>>> On Nov 18, 2021, at 10:17 AM, Brad Snyder >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Patrick,
>>> 
>>> Assuming you are running either macOS Big Sur or Monterey, try the 
>>> following, and see if it helps:
>>> 
>>> 1.  Go to System Preferences > Dock & Menu Bar.
>>> 2.  Navigate to the table, and interact with the table using VO + Shift + 
>>> DownArrow.
>>> 3.  Once you have interacted with the table, navigate to the item labeled 
>>> Clock Menu Bar, and stop interacting with the table by pressing VO + Shift 
>>> + UpArrow.
>>> 
>>> Note: There seems to be a VoiceOver issue when navigating this table with 
>>> macOS Monterey, in that labels for some table items are not spoken by 
>>> VoiceOver.  Instead of speaking the correct label name for some items, 
>>> VoiceOver may say Empty Cell, or VoiceOver may speak a row number.
>>> In any case, the Clock Menu Bar item is the 4th row from the bottom of the 
>>> table, which is row 15.
>>> 
>>> 4.  Once you have stoped interacting with the table, navigate using VO + 
>>> RightArrow, until you hear VoiceOver speak Clock, and then Date Options, 
>>> which is followed by several items, that can be selected or unselected to 
>>> suit your preferences.
>>> 5.  Once you have made your selection, close the System Preferences window, 
>>> and you are done.
>>> 
>>> HTH.
>>> 
>>> - Brad -
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Nov 18, 2021, at 05:52, Patrick Ford >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi,
>>> In the clock menu of doc and menus in system preferences I cannot make any 
>>> changes. As I VO right arrow to make a change to the date and time it says 
>>> it is dimmed and checked and some say dimmed and unchecked. How do I make 
>>> the change I wish to make? I know there is a way to have Seri just say the 
>>> time without the date mentioned.
>>> Thanks.
>>> Patrick 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Come and See
>>> scripturepassage-subscr...@groups.io 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>> Visionaries list.
>>> 
>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners 
>>> or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>> 
>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at: 
>>>  mk...@ucla.edu  and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
>>> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com 
>>> 
>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ 
>>> 
>>> --- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com 
>>> .
>>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/83C84EBA-16A6-479D-B20C-819697F3C7A9%40gmail.com
>>>  
>>> .
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>> Visionaries list.
>>>  
>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners 
>>> or moderators directly 

Re: clock menu in system preferences - help

[Les Kriegler]

Hi Brad,
Your suggestion is well-taken. I will contact Apple. I am able to get to the 
clock, I hear Clock Menu Bar but cannot do anything from there. I checked this 
out, as I felt I had inadvertently misled Patrick. Well, as they say, no good 
deed goes unpunished. Since I got this far, can you explain how I proceed once 
reaching the clock Menu bar? By the way, on my system, it is row 17 according 
to Voiceover. Thanks for the assist and the procedure.
Best Regards,

Les

> On Nov 18, 2021, at 11:47 AM, Brad Snyder  wrote:
> 
> Hi Les,
> 
> Sorry to hear you are having difficulty following my instructions.
> The Clock Menu item is the 4th item from the bottom of the table.  There is 
> no interacting with this item.  You simply stop interacting with the table, 
> and navigate to the right using VO + RightArrow.
> Other than VoiceOver not reading items in the table, I find this procedure 
> works very well.
> If you have an issue with this process, I suggest you contact Apple, and 
> share your thoughts with them.
> 
> - Brad -
> 
> 
> On Nov 18, 2021, at 09:53, Les Kriegler  > wrote:
> 
> Hi Brad,
> 
> Okay, I tried your steps. I’m running Monterey. When I get to the empty cell 
> announcements, I did a VO right arrow. I never heard row 15, rather row 17 
> which was the first numbered row spoken. So I went back two to what I thought 
> was Row 15 and heard Fast User Switching. Aside from not finding the Clock 
> option, this entire procedure seems rather complicated. My one complaint 
> about Mac software is the need to interact as often as one needs to do. I did 
> try activating items that were referenced as empty cells, but again I could 
> not activate the clock. More trouble than it’s worth.
> Best,
> 
> Les
> 
>> On Nov 18, 2021, at 10:17 AM, Brad Snyder > > wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Patrick,
>> 
>> Assuming you are running either macOS Big Sur or Monterey, try the 
>> following, and see if it helps:
>> 
>> 1.  Go to System Preferences > Dock & Menu Bar.
>> 2.  Navigate to the table, and interact with the table using VO + Shift + 
>> DownArrow.
>> 3.  Once you have interacted with the table, navigate to the item labeled 
>> Clock Menu Bar, and stop interacting with the table by pressing VO + Shift + 
>> UpArrow.
>> 
>> Note: There seems to be a VoiceOver issue when navigating this table with 
>> macOS Monterey, in that labels for some table items are not spoken by 
>> VoiceOver.  Instead of speaking the correct label name for some items, 
>> VoiceOver may say Empty Cell, or VoiceOver may speak a row number.
>> In any case, the Clock Menu Bar item is the 4th row from the bottom of the 
>> table, which is row 15.
>> 
>> 4.  Once you have stoped interacting with the table, navigate using VO + 
>> RightArrow, until you hear VoiceOver speak Clock, and then Date Options, 
>> which is followed by several items, that can be selected or unselected to 
>> suit your preferences.
>> 5.  Once you have made your selection, close the System Preferences window, 
>> and you are done.
>> 
>> HTH.
>> 
>> - Brad -
>> 
>> 
>> On Nov 18, 2021, at 05:52, Patrick Ford > > wrote:
>> 
>> Hi,
>> In the clock menu of doc and menus in system preferences I cannot make any 
>> changes. As I VO right arrow to make a change to the date and time it says 
>> it is dimmed and checked and some say dimmed and unchecked. How do I make 
>> the change I wish to make? I know there is a way to have Seri just say the 
>> time without the date mentioned.
>> Thanks.
>> Patrick 
>> 
>> 
>> Come and See
>> scripturepassage-subscr...@groups.io 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>> 
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
>> mk...@ucla.edu  and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
>> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com 
>> 
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ 
>> 
>> --- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com 
>> .
>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/83C84EBA-16A6-479D-B20C-819697F3C7A9%40gmail.com
>>  
>> 

Re: clock menu in system preferences - help

[Brad Snyder]

Yes, this also works.
This is exactly what we discussed in the Mac Buzz last night.

- Brad -


On Nov 18, 2021, at 09:56, Patrick Ford  wrote:

Hi, when you get to the point  in the table after interacting then you can use 
command plus down arrow and then only use the up arrow to get to the clock menu 
- it's strange but it works  -
Come and See
scripturepassage-subscr...@groups.io 


> On Nov 18, 2021, at 10:53 AM, Les Kriegler  > wrote:
> 
> Hi Brad,
> 
> Okay, I tried your steps. I’m running Monterey. When I get to the empty cell 
> announcements, I did a VO right arrow. I never heard row 15, rather row 17 
> which was the first numbered row spoken. So I went back two to what I thought 
> was Row 15 and heard Fast User Switching. Aside from not finding the Clock 
> option, this entire procedure seems rather complicated. My one complaint 
> about Mac software is the need to interact as often as one needs to do. I did 
> try activating items that were referenced as empty cells, but again I could 
> not activate the clock. More trouble than it’s worth.
> Best,
> 
> Les
> 
>> On Nov 18, 2021, at 10:17 AM, Brad Snyder > > wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Patrick,
>> 
>> Assuming you are running either macOS Big Sur or Monterey, try the 
>> following, and see if it helps:
>> 
>> 1.  Go to System Preferences > Dock & Menu Bar.
>> 2.  Navigate to the table, and interact with the table using VO + Shift + 
>> DownArrow.
>> 3.  Once you have interacted with the table, navigate to the item labeled 
>> Clock Menu Bar, and stop interacting with the table by pressing VO + Shift + 
>> UpArrow.
>> 
>> Note: There seems to be a VoiceOver issue when navigating this table with 
>> macOS Monterey, in that labels for some table items are not spoken by 
>> VoiceOver.  Instead of speaking the correct label name for some items, 
>> VoiceOver may say Empty Cell, or VoiceOver may speak a row number.
>> In any case, the Clock Menu Bar item is the 4th row from the bottom of the 
>> table, which is row 15.
>> 
>> 4.  Once you have stoped interacting with the table, navigate using VO + 
>> RightArrow, until you hear VoiceOver speak Clock, and then Date Options, 
>> which is followed by several items, that can be selected or unselected to 
>> suit your preferences.
>> 5.  Once you have made your selection, close the System Preferences window, 
>> and you are done.
>> 
>> HTH.
>> 
>> - Brad -
>> 
>> 
>> On Nov 18, 2021, at 05:52, Patrick Ford > > wrote:
>> 
>> Hi,
>> In the clock menu of doc and menus in system preferences I cannot make any 
>> changes. As I VO right arrow to make a change to the date and time it says 
>> it is dimmed and checked and some say dimmed and unchecked. How do I make 
>> the change I wish to make? I know there is a way to have Seri just say the 
>> time without the date mentioned.
>> Thanks.
>> Patrick 
>> 
>> 
>> Come and See
>> scripturepassage-subscr...@groups.io 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>> 
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
>> mk...@ucla.edu  and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
>> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com 
>> 
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ 
>> 
>> --- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com 
>> .
>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/83C84EBA-16A6-479D-B20C-819697F3C7A9%40gmail.com
>>  
>> .
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>>  
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>  
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at: 
>> mk...@ucla.edu  and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
>> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com 
>>  
>> The archives for 

Re: clock menu in system preferences - help

[Brad Snyder]

Hi Les,

Sorry to hear you are having difficulty following my instructions.
The Clock Menu item is the 4th item from the bottom of the table.  There is no 
interacting with this item.  You simply stop interacting with the table, and 
navigate to the right using VO + RightArrow.
Other than VoiceOver not reading items in the table, I find this procedure 
works very well.
If you have an issue with this process, I suggest you contact Apple, and share 
your thoughts with them.

- Brad -


On Nov 18, 2021, at 09:53, Les Kriegler  wrote:

Hi Brad,

Okay, I tried your steps. I’m running Monterey. When I get to the empty cell 
announcements, I did a VO right arrow. I never heard row 15, rather row 17 
which was the first numbered row spoken. So I went back two to what I thought 
was Row 15 and heard Fast User Switching. Aside from not finding the Clock 
option, this entire procedure seems rather complicated. My one complaint about 
Mac software is the need to interact as often as one needs to do. I did try 
activating items that were referenced as empty cells, but again I could not 
activate the clock. More trouble than it’s worth.
Best,

Les

> On Nov 18, 2021, at 10:17 AM, Brad Snyder  > wrote:
> 
> Hi Patrick,
> 
> Assuming you are running either macOS Big Sur or Monterey, try the following, 
> and see if it helps:
> 
> 1.  Go to System Preferences > Dock & Menu Bar.
> 2.  Navigate to the table, and interact with the table using VO + Shift + 
> DownArrow.
> 3.  Once you have interacted with the table, navigate to the item labeled 
> Clock Menu Bar, and stop interacting with the table by pressing VO + Shift + 
> UpArrow.
> 
> Note: There seems to be a VoiceOver issue when navigating this table with 
> macOS Monterey, in that labels for some table items are not spoken by 
> VoiceOver.  Instead of speaking the correct label name for some items, 
> VoiceOver may say Empty Cell, or VoiceOver may speak a row number.
> In any case, the Clock Menu Bar item is the 4th row from the bottom of the 
> table, which is row 15.
> 
> 4.  Once you have stoped interacting with the table, navigate using VO + 
> RightArrow, until you hear VoiceOver speak Clock, and then Date Options, 
> which is followed by several items, that can be selected or unselected to 
> suit your preferences.
> 5.  Once you have made your selection, close the System Preferences window, 
> and you are done.
> 
> HTH.
> 
> - Brad -
> 
> 
> On Nov 18, 2021, at 05:52, Patrick Ford  > wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> In the clock menu of doc and menus in system preferences I cannot make any 
> changes. As I VO right arrow to make a change to the date and time it says it 
> is dimmed and checked and some say dimmed and unchecked. How do I make the 
> change I wish to make? I know there is a way to have Seri just say the time 
> without the date mentioned.
> Thanks.
> Patrick 
> 
> 
> Come and See
> scripturepassage-subscr...@groups.io 
> 
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
> mk...@ucla.edu  and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can 
> reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com 
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ 
> 
> --- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/83C84EBA-16A6-479D-B20C-819697F3C7A9%40gmail.com.
> 
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
>  
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>  
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at: 
> mk...@ucla.edu  and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can 
> reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com 
>  
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ 
> 
> --- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" 

Re: clock menu in system preferences - help

[Patrick Ford]

Hi, when you get to the point  in the table after interacting then you can use 
command plus down arrow and then only use the up arrow to get to the clock menu 
- it's strange but it works  -
Come and See
scripturepassage-subscr...@groups.io

> On Nov 18, 2021, at 10:53 AM, Les Kriegler  wrote:
> 
> Hi Brad,
> 
> Okay, I tried your steps. I’m running Monterey. When I get to the empty cell 
> announcements, I did a VO right arrow. I never heard row 15, rather row 17 
> which was the first numbered row spoken. So I went back two to what I thought 
> was Row 15 and heard Fast User Switching. Aside from not finding the Clock 
> option, this entire procedure seems rather complicated. My one complaint 
> about Mac software is the need to interact as often as one needs to do. I did 
> try activating items that were referenced as empty cells, but again I could 
> not activate the clock. More trouble than it’s worth.
> Best,
> 
> Les
> 
>> On Nov 18, 2021, at 10:17 AM, Brad Snyder > > wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Patrick,
>> 
>> Assuming you are running either macOS Big Sur or Monterey, try the 
>> following, and see if it helps:
>> 
>> 1.  Go to System Preferences > Dock & Menu Bar.
>> 2.  Navigate to the table, and interact with the table using VO + Shift + 
>> DownArrow.
>> 3.  Once you have interacted with the table, navigate to the item labeled 
>> Clock Menu Bar, and stop interacting with the table by pressing VO + Shift + 
>> UpArrow.
>> 
>> Note: There seems to be a VoiceOver issue when navigating this table with 
>> macOS Monterey, in that labels for some table items are not spoken by 
>> VoiceOver.  Instead of speaking the correct label name for some items, 
>> VoiceOver may say Empty Cell, or VoiceOver may speak a row number.
>> In any case, the Clock Menu Bar item is the 4th row from the bottom of the 
>> table, which is row 15.
>> 
>> 4.  Once you have stoped interacting with the table, navigate using VO + 
>> RightArrow, until you hear VoiceOver speak Clock, and then Date Options, 
>> which is followed by several items, that can be selected or unselected to 
>> suit your preferences.
>> 5.  Once you have made your selection, close the System Preferences window, 
>> and you are done.
>> 
>> HTH.
>> 
>> - Brad -
>> 
>> 
>> On Nov 18, 2021, at 05:52, Patrick Ford > > wrote:
>> 
>> Hi,
>> In the clock menu of doc and menus in system preferences I cannot make any 
>> changes. As I VO right arrow to make a change to the date and time it says 
>> it is dimmed and checked and some say dimmed and unchecked. How do I make 
>> the change I wish to make? I know there is a way to have Seri just say the 
>> time without the date mentioned.
>> Thanks.
>> Patrick 
>> 
>> 
>> Come and See
>> scripturepassage-subscr...@groups.io 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>> 
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
>> mk...@ucla.edu  and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
>> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com 
>> 
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ 
>> 
>> --- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/83C84EBA-16A6-479D-B20C-819697F3C7A9%40gmail.com.
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>>  
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>  
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at: 
>> mk...@ucla.edu  and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
>> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com 
>>  
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ 
>> 
>> --- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to 

Re: clock menu in system preferences - help

[Patrick Ford]

Thanks Brad - I learned this from the Mac  Buzz on Wednesday evening  on club 
house - so I am at the point where I Vo right arrow to date options - my 
problem is that all the choices  are dimmed out - voice over is telling me the 
choices are dimmed and some are checked and not checked -0 but all are dimmed 
out - it's strange - I have restarted my mac, which does run monterey -and in 
this doc and menu section there is no locking or unlucking  for changes - so it 
is strange -
Come and See
scripturepassage-subscr...@groups.io

> On Nov 18, 2021, at 10:17 AM, Brad Snyder  wrote:
> 
> Hi Patrick,
> 
> Assuming you are running either macOS Big Sur or Monterey, try the following, 
> and see if it helps:
> 
> 1.  Go to System Preferences > Dock & Menu Bar.
> 2.  Navigate to the table, and interact with the table using VO + Shift + 
> DownArrow.
> 3.  Once you have interacted with the table, navigate to the item labeled 
> Clock Menu Bar, and stop interacting with the table by pressing VO + Shift + 
> UpArrow.
> 
> Note: There seems to be a VoiceOver issue when navigating this table with 
> macOS Monterey, in that labels for some table items are not spoken by 
> VoiceOver.  Instead of speaking the correct label name for some items, 
> VoiceOver may say Empty Cell, or VoiceOver may speak a row number.
> In any case, the Clock Menu Bar item is the 4th row from the bottom of the 
> table, which is row 15.
> 
> 4.  Once you have stoped interacting with the table, navigate using VO + 
> RightArrow, until you hear VoiceOver speak Clock, and then Date Options, 
> which is followed by several items, that can be selected or unselected to 
> suit your preferences.
> 5.  Once you have made your selection, close the System Preferences window, 
> and you are done.
> 
> HTH.
> 
> - Brad -
> 
> 
> On Nov 18, 2021, at 05:52, Patrick Ford  > wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> In the clock menu of doc and menus in system preferences I cannot make any 
> changes. As I VO right arrow to make a change to the date and time it says it 
> is dimmed and checked and some say dimmed and unchecked. How do I make the 
> change I wish to make? I know there is a way to have Seri just say the time 
> without the date mentioned.
> Thanks.
> Patrick 
> 
> 
> Come and See
> scripturepassage-subscr...@groups.io 
> 
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> --- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/83C84EBA-16A6-479D-B20C-819697F3C7A9%40gmail.com.
> 
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
>  
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>  
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at: 
> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>  
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ 
> 
> --- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com 
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Re: clock menu in system preferences - help

[Les Kriegler]

Hi Brad,

Okay, I tried your steps. I’m running Monterey. When I get to the empty cell 
announcements, I did a VO right arrow. I never heard row 15, rather row 17 
which was the first numbered row spoken. So I went back two to what I thought 
was Row 15 and heard Fast User Switching. Aside from not finding the Clock 
option, this entire procedure seems rather complicated. My one complaint about 
Mac software is the need to interact as often as one needs to do. I did try 
activating items that were referenced as empty cells, but again I could not 
activate the clock. More trouble than it’s worth.
Best,

Les

> On Nov 18, 2021, at 10:17 AM, Brad Snyder  wrote:
> 
> Hi Patrick,
> 
> Assuming you are running either macOS Big Sur or Monterey, try the following, 
> and see if it helps:
> 
> 1.  Go to System Preferences > Dock & Menu Bar.
> 2.  Navigate to the table, and interact with the table using VO + Shift + 
> DownArrow.
> 3.  Once you have interacted with the table, navigate to the item labeled 
> Clock Menu Bar, and stop interacting with the table by pressing VO + Shift + 
> UpArrow.
> 
> Note: There seems to be a VoiceOver issue when navigating this table with 
> macOS Monterey, in that labels for some table items are not spoken by 
> VoiceOver.  Instead of speaking the correct label name for some items, 
> VoiceOver may say Empty Cell, or VoiceOver may speak a row number.
> In any case, the Clock Menu Bar item is the 4th row from the bottom of the 
> table, which is row 15.
> 
> 4.  Once you have stoped interacting with the table, navigate using VO + 
> RightArrow, until you hear VoiceOver speak Clock, and then Date Options, 
> which is followed by several items, that can be selected or unselected to 
> suit your preferences.
> 5.  Once you have made your selection, close the System Preferences window, 
> and you are done.
> 
> HTH.
> 
> - Brad -
> 
> 
> On Nov 18, 2021, at 05:52, Patrick Ford  > wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> In the clock menu of doc and menus in system preferences I cannot make any 
> changes. As I VO right arrow to make a change to the date and time it says it 
> is dimmed and checked and some say dimmed and unchecked. How do I make the 
> change I wish to make? I know there is a way to have Seri just say the time 
> without the date mentioned.
> Thanks.
> Patrick 
> 
> 
> Come and See
> scripturepassage-subscr...@groups.io 
> 
> 
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Re: clock menu in system preferences - help

[Brad Snyder]

Hi Patrick,

Assuming you are running either macOS Big Sur or Monterey, try the following, 
and see if it helps:

1.  Go to System Preferences > Dock & Menu Bar.
2.  Navigate to the table, and interact with the table using VO + Shift + 
DownArrow.
3.  Once you have interacted with the table, navigate to the item labeled Clock 
Menu Bar, and stop interacting with the table by pressing VO + Shift + UpArrow.

Note: There seems to be a VoiceOver issue when navigating this table with macOS 
Monterey, in that labels for some table items are not spoken by VoiceOver.  
Instead of speaking the correct label name for some items, VoiceOver may say 
Empty Cell, or VoiceOver may speak a row number.
In any case, the Clock Menu Bar item is the 4th row from the bottom of the 
table, which is row 15.

4.  Once you have stoped interacting with the table, navigate using VO + 
RightArrow, until you hear VoiceOver speak Clock, and then Date Options, which 
is followed by several items, that can be selected or unselected to suit your 
preferences.
5.  Once you have made your selection, close the System Preferences window, and 
you are done.

HTH.

- Brad -


On Nov 18, 2021, at 05:52, Patrick Ford  wrote:

Hi,
In the clock menu of doc and menus in system preferences I cannot make any 
changes. As I VO right arrow to make a change to the date and time it says it 
is dimmed and checked and some say dimmed and unchecked. How do I make the 
change I wish to make? I know there is a way to have Seri just say the time 
without the date mentioned.
Thanks.
Patrick 


Come and See
scripturepassage-subscr...@groups.io

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Re: clock menu in system preferences - help

[Les Kriegler]

Well, I understand what you are talking about now. When I unlocked, the only 
option I saw was to set time automatically and that was checked. I could not 
locate an option to change the hour and date manually.
Best,

Les

> On Nov 18, 2021, at 8:36 AM, Patrick Ford  wrote:
> 
> Thanks for your reply. The clock menu is under the doc and menu tab in system 
> preferences. When I open this, there is a date option section, and the 
> preferences under this are dimmed. Where you sent me, and I did go there and 
> unlock, the clock menu is not available there. 
> Patrick 
> Come and See
> scripturepassage-subscr...@groups.io
> 
>> On Nov 18, 2021, at 8:00 AM, Les Kriegler  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Patrick,
>> Okay, go into System Preferences and choose Date and Time. Use your tab key 
>> until you find the option for Click the Lock to make changes. Make your 
>> changes and then choose the same option to lock that setting to prevent 
>> further changes. Hope this helps.
>> Best,
>> 
>> Les
>> 
>>> On Nov 18, 2021, at 6:52 AM, Patrick Ford  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi,
>>> In the clock menu of doc and menus in system preferences I cannot make any 
>>> changes. As I VO right arrow to make a change to the date and time it says 
>>> it is dimmed and checked and some say dimmed and unchecked. How do I make 
>>> the change I wish to make? I know there is a way to have Seri just say the 
>>> time without the date mentioned.
>>> Thanks.
>>> Patrick 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Come and See
>>> scripturepassage-subscr...@groups.io
>>> 
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>>> Visionaries list.
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>>> 
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>>>  mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
>>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>> 
>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
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>> 
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Re: clock menu in system preferences - help

[Patrick Ford]

Thanks for your reply. The clock menu is under the doc and menu tab in system 
preferences. When I open this, there is a date option section, and the 
preferences under this are dimmed. Where you sent me, and I did go there and 
unlock, the clock menu is not available there. 
Patrick 
Come and See
scripturepassage-subscr...@groups.io

> On Nov 18, 2021, at 8:00 AM, Les Kriegler  wrote:
> 
> Hi Patrick,
> Okay, go into System Preferences and choose Date and Time. Use your tab key 
> until you find the option for Click the Lock to make changes. Make your 
> changes and then choose the same option to lock that setting to prevent 
> further changes. Hope this helps.
> Best,
> 
> Les
> 
>> On Nov 18, 2021, at 6:52 AM, Patrick Ford  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi,
>> In the clock menu of doc and menus in system preferences I cannot make any 
>> changes. As I VO right arrow to make a change to the date and time it says 
>> it is dimmed and checked and some say dimmed and unchecked. How do I make 
>> the change I wish to make? I know there is a way to have Seri just say the 
>> time without the date mentioned.
>> Thanks.
>> Patrick 
>> 
>> 
>> Come and See
>> scripturepassage-subscr...@groups.io
>> 
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>> Visionaries list.
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>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>> 
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Re: clock menu in system preferences - help

[Les Kriegler]

Hi Patrick,
Okay, go into System Preferences and choose Date and Time. Use your tab key 
until you find the option for Click the Lock to make changes. Make your changes 
and then choose the same option to lock that setting to prevent further 
changes. Hope this helps.
Best,

Les

> On Nov 18, 2021, at 6:52 AM, Patrick Ford  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> In the clock menu of doc and menus in system preferences I cannot make any 
> changes. As I VO right arrow to make a change to the date and time it says it 
> is dimmed and checked and some say dimmed and unchecked. How do I make the 
> change I wish to make? I know there is a way to have Seri just say the time 
> without the date mentioned.
> Thanks.
> Patrick 
> 
> 
> Come and See
> scripturepassage-subscr...@groups.io
> 
> -- 
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> 
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clock menu in system preferences - help

[Patrick Ford]

Hi,
In the clock menu of doc and menus in system preferences I cannot make any 
changes. As I VO right arrow to make a change to the date and time it says it 
is dimmed and checked and some say dimmed and unchecked. How do I make the 
change I wish to make? I know there is a way to have Seri just say the time 
without the date mentioned.
Thanks.
Patrick 


Come and See
scripturepassage-subscr...@groups.io

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