Re: N900 battery duration
On Tue, 10 Nov 2009, Tuomas Kulve wrote: Aniello Del Sorbo wrote: An N8x0 in offline mode (idle) consumes much less energy in a night than its minutes-long start up. Does somebody have any data on this? Here is some data: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=361648postcount=23 Abstract: The often repeated claim that a reboot cycle wastes a lot of battery is incorrect. -- Matan. ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N900 battery duration
2009/11/10 Tuomas Kulve tuo...@kulve.fi: Aniello Del Sorbo wrote: An N8x0 in offline mode (idle) consumes much less energy in a night than its minutes-long start up. Does somebody have any data on this? I don't, but I do remember an e-mail or thread somewhere long ago about this. I was reporting it by memory. -- anidel Sent from London, Eng, United Kingdom ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N900 battery duration
2009/11/11 Matan Ziv-Av ma...@svgalib.org: On Tue, 10 Nov 2009, Tuomas Kulve wrote: Aniello Del Sorbo wrote: An N8x0 in offline mode (idle) consumes much less energy in a night than its minutes-long start up. Does somebody have any data on this? Here is some data: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=361648postcount=23 Abstract: The often repeated claim that a reboot cycle wastes a lot of battery is incorrect. To have a fair comparison you should now check the battery-status before going to sleep and when waking up again so to compare how much battery went down in one night. Interesting results nonetheless. Thanks! -- anidel ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N900 battery duration
Matan Ziv-Av wrote: Here is some data: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=361648postcount=23 Abstract: The often repeated claim that a reboot cycle wastes a lot of battery is incorrect. Hmm, you proved you can drain battery in 44 reboot cycles in 2 and half hours. To me it says reboot wastes a lot of battery :-) You can play video or surf the web longer than 2.5 hours. In fact there is not many things that could drain battery faster than reboots, is it? I have posted my findings with one spare N810 to that thread. I got like 30 days with N810 sitting completely idle. That would roughly mean one reboot is 16 hours of standby (with no wi-fi). Frantisek ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N900 battery duration
2009/11/11 Frantisek Dufka duf...@seznam.cz: Matan Ziv-Av wrote: Here is some data: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=361648postcount=23 Abstract: The often repeated claim that a reboot cycle wastes a lot of battery is incorrect. Hmm, you proved you can drain battery in 44 reboot cycles in 2 and half hours. To me it says reboot wastes a lot of battery :-) You can play video or surf the web longer than 2.5 hours. In fact there is not many things that could drain battery faster than reboots, is it? I have posted my findings with one spare N810 to that thread. I got like 30 days with N810 sitting completely idle. That would roughly mean one reboot is 16 hours of standby (with no wi-fi). Frantisek The issue was (abstract) if a reboot would consume more energy than a night-long idle. If you swap reboots with nights and assume night consumption = reboot consumption then you should be able to squeeze up to 44 nights out of a charged battery. -- anidel Sent from London, Eng, United Kingdom ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N900 battery duration
Frantisek Dufka wrote: I have posted my findings with one spare N810 to that thread. I got like 30 days with N810 sitting completely idle. That would roughly mean one reboot is 16 hours of standby (with no wi-fi). 30 days. That's quite nice. Any idea why n900 gets only to 4 days then? What makes the difference so big? I didn't run it on offline mode though. -- Tuomas ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N900 battery duration
Aniello Del Sorbo wrote: The issue was (abstract) if a reboot would consume more energy than a night-long idle. As I said - by Matan's equation in the forum post, one reboot is 16 hours of standby. So at least with wi-fi off, keeping it idle looks better. I was thinking about testing with wi-fi but my router cannot keep connection for so long so it would be a bit mor complex than just keeping it in the drawer. you should be able to squeeze up to 44 nights out of a charged battery. I guess with 30 full days I could do 60 nights ;-) But I somehow need to keep it powered off during daytime. Maybe I could shut it down in the morning and boot it in the evening to save power ;-) Frantisek ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N900 battery duration
2009/11/11 Frantisek Dufka duf...@seznam.cz: Aniello Del Sorbo wrote: The issue was (abstract) if a reboot would consume more energy than a night-long idle. As I said - by Matan's equation in the forum post, one reboot is 16 hours of standby. So at least with wi-fi off, keeping it idle looks better. I was thinking about testing with wi-fi but my router cannot keep connection for so long so it would be a bit mor complex than just keeping it in the drawer. you should be able to squeeze up to 44 nights out of a charged battery. I guess with 30 full days I could do 60 nights ;-) But I somehow need to keep it powered off during daytime. Maybe I could shut it down in the morning and boot it in the evening to save power ;-) Frantisek Yeah, that's true. So far it looks like a reboot is mostly equal to a night-long idle consumption. To me at least. 44 reboots and 60 nights, considering a difference in how old a battery is, could very well be the case. I also take a bit into account battery heat dissipation (in the case of 44 consecutive reboot). So, I would guess that leaving it on in offline is better than turning it off and than on during the night (it's faster to switch between offline/online than actually rebooting). But rebooting ensures and memory leak gets a workaround. oh well.. -- anidel Sent from London, Eng, United Kingdom ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N900 battery duration
On Wed, 11 Nov 2009, Frantisek Dufka wrote: Matan Ziv-Av wrote: Here is some data: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=361648postcount=23 Abstract: The often repeated claim that a reboot cycle wastes a lot of battery is incorrect. Hmm, you proved you can drain battery in 44 reboot cycles in 2 and half hours. To me it says reboot wastes a lot of battery :-) You can play video or surf the web longer than 2.5 hours. In fact there is not many things that could drain battery faster than reboots, is it? I cannot play video for 2.5 hours on my almost 2 years old N810. I can hardly read an ebook for this long. In addition I have dual boot, including 30s delay. During this delay screen is on maximum brightness, and I don't know which power saving features are enabled, so without this delay, a few more reboots might be possible. I have posted my findings with one spare N810 to that thread. I got like 30 days with N810 sitting completely idle. That would roughly mean one reboot is 16 hours of standby (with no wi-fi). This must be very atypical. In similar tests on a new N800 I never even managed two weeks (in offline mode). The main reason I suggest turning off when the device is not going to be used for long periods (such as a night sleep) is the non-slim chance that something might cause break power saving (metalayer-crawler, router incompatible with power saving, forgetting to disconnect bluetooth, etc.) and you wake up to see a dead device. -- Matan. ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N900 battery duration
Matan Ziv-Av wrote: I cannot play video for 2.5 hours on my almost 2 years old N810. I can hardly read an ebook for this long. In addition I have dual boot, including 30s delay. During this delay screen is on maximum brightness, and I don't know which power saving features are enabled, so without this delay, a few more reboots might be possible. Good points. I have posted my findings with one spare N810 to that thread. I got like 30 days with N810 sitting completely idle. That would roughly mean one reboot is 16 hours of standby (with no wi-fi). This must be very atypical. In similar tests on a new N800 I never even managed two weeks (in offline mode). N800 is worse, see Igor's post here http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-users/2008-February/009409.html My numbers is from my own measurements I did later. The extra N810 was new at that time. The main reason I suggest turning off when the device is not going to be used for long periods (such as a night sleep) is the non-slim chance that something might cause break power saving (metalayer-crawler, router incompatible with power saving, forgetting to disconnect bluetooth, etc.) and you wake up to see a dead device. Yes, definitely. I was trying to solve this by send SIGSTOP to offending processes (browser in particular) when keyboard and screen is locked and it somehow worked. It is relatively easy to do it as powerlaunch script. With nice UI that would allow to picks up offenders by monitoring CPU usage this could be useful tool for poor man's suspend. Basically by locking screen and keys every process except few critical onces could be stopped and later resumed (SIGSTOP,SIGCONT) when device is unlocked. Would not solve keeping audio open etc. Frantisek ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
App Developers and Mer
A question of curiosity. To any application developers that might be on this list, are you planning to make sure your applications will work on Mer? I am wondering what kind of application support Mer will gain? Thanks, Sean ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: App Developers and Mer
Am Mittwoch, den 11.11.2009, 09:36 -0500 schrieb sean: A question of curiosity. To any application developers that might be on this list There is a maemo-developers list - probably fits better, as this is the maemo-users list. andre -- Andre Klapper (maemo.org bugmaster) ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: App Developers and Mer
On Wed, 2009-11-11 at 16:25 +0100, Andre Klapper wrote: Am Mittwoch, den 11.11.2009, 09:36 -0500 schrieb sean: A question of curiosity. To any application developers that might be on this list There is a maemo-developers list - probably fits better, as this is the maemo-users list. But to let people on this list know ... :) We hope to be close enough that we plan to have apps submitted to the autobuilder be built against Mer. Of course developers will need to account for things like the N800 having no keybaord etc There are many ways to think of Mer... a backport of Fremantle to the N8x0/770 is one of them. David/lbt ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: new on list / sponsoring ISP in Germany
Here you have third party reseller: http://geizhals.at/deutschland/?cat=umtsverasuch=n900 As you see, you can get the N900 cheap... I dont like Sim lock so i will buy one without a contract. 2009/11/10 Boris bo...@cation.de Hej all, I'm new to this list, subscribed because I'm very interested in maemo, especially on the upcoming N900. I'm using Debian Linux since early Potatoe and hope to have a good chance getting these things (desktop and mobile) good together. The N900 is announced for late November 09. Does anybody know, if there will be a sponsoring provider in Germany selling this little thing for small money including a fair (flat-) rate? Thanks, Boris ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N900 battery duration
On Wed, Nov 11, 2009 at 5:58 AM, Frantisek Dufka duf...@seznam.cz wrote: Aniello Del Sorbo wrote: The issue was (abstract) if a reboot would consume more energy than a night-long idle. As I said - by Matan's equation in the forum post, one reboot is 16 hours of standby. So at least with wi-fi off, keeping it idle looks better. I was thinking about testing with wi-fi but my router cannot keep connection for so long so it would be a bit mor complex than just keeping it in the drawer. you should be able to squeeze up to 44 nights out of a charged battery. I guess with 30 full days I could do 60 nights ;-) But I somehow need to keep it powered off during daytime. Maybe I could shut it down in the morning and boot it in the evening to save power ;-) Frantisek The absurdity knows know bounds. You're saying a battery will last longer with a device turned on in sleep mode than it is even capable keeping a charge sitting all by itself out of the device on a counter. Give me a break. We're talking real-world usage here. If you actually *use* the device, rather than just letting it sit idle doing nothing (in which case why do you even own the thing?!?!?!), you're not going to get anything like that kind of battery duration. I've tried putting my N800 in offline sleep mode at night, and never got more than 3 days out of it, even with very little usage during the day. If I turn it off when I'm not using it and turn it on and back off 2-4 times a day, I can get 1 to 2 weeks out of it. Even if the N810s are better, there are too many variables to defend such outrageous claims, especially if you (again) actually use the thing and install any apps that run in the background. Let's leave theory to the theorists and take a dose of reality, okay? Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: App Developers and Mer
Hello! A question of curiosity. To any application developers that might be on this list, are you planning to make sure your applications will work on Mer? Yes. After my application run fine in fremantle I plan to start looking at Mer. Since Mer should be rather fremantle-like (at tat time) I do not expect larger problems. I'm also intersted in getting back any feedback for my applications on Mer. I am wondering what kind of application support Mer will gain? A good one, since a working Mer will allow me to drop support for the older diablo OS version (N800, N810) and possible even gain back support for 770. Since Mer should be more fremantle-like than the older OS version getting Mer to run on the devices will make it possibly easier to support older Devices for developers that have a fremantle version of their applications running. -- Gruß... Tim (still having an N800 and N810) ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
