Re: [maemo-users] 770 on the way
I would be happy if Nokia would work on stability issues. The pre-packaged opera does not work as smooth as someone would expect of a consumer device (you harly can browser for 2 hours without restarting it several times) and the from-time-to-time crashes I am sure everybody has seen are not really ... well ... what I would expect from a Linux powered device. EIther Nokia's software stack isn't polished enough (the N770 came too late anyway) or there are some detect-crash-technologies which don't work right. lg Clemens 2006/12/8, Ted Zlatanov [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On 8 Dec 2006, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If the 870 had a pull-out keyboard, that would be compelling enough for me. Otherwise, I'd probably skip a generation or two. Indeed! I have an n770 and would definitely buy an 870 if it had a keyboard with a CTRL and ESC button (that is, a keyboard on which I could code, run vim, etc) Code?!?! You are insane. The 770 screen is hardly big enough for web browsing. Code requires lots of physical screen space. The ESC key for vim is the go back key by the way, in case you didn't know about it :) I've tried pull-out keyboards over the years: Zaurus, Mylo, even some UMPCs. They are unpleasant for me. Maybe my fingers are thick, but I find them more trouble than the 770 on-screen keyboard, which has the predictive input too. I was very happy with the Nokia 9000-series keyboards, though. The keys are large and there's enough distance between them. I wouldn't mind a clamshell 770 successor with those keys and a wide screen for watching movies :) Ted ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: [maemo-users] 770 on the way
Hi, The pre-packaged opera does not work as smooth as someone would expect of a consumer device (you harly can browser for 2 hours without restarting it several times) Have you tried disabling the Flash plugin (and restarting Browser)? Some of the Flash content on the web is not really ... well ... - Eero PS. It's enlightening to run top when browsing the net with and without Flash enabled... ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: [maemo-users] 770 on the way
On 8 Dec 2006, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If the 870 had a pull-out keyboard, that would be compelling enough for me. Otherwise, I'd probably skip a generation or two. Indeed! I have an n770 and would definitely buy an 870 if it had a keyboard with a CTRL and ESC button (that is, a keyboard on which I could code, run vim, etc) Code?!?! You are insane. The 770 screen is hardly big enough for web browsing. Code requires lots of physical screen space. The ESC key for vim is the go back key by the way, in case you didn't know about it :) I've tried pull-out keyboards over the years: Zaurus, Mylo, even some UMPCs. They are unpleasant for me. Maybe my fingers are thick, but I find them more trouble than the 770 on-screen keyboard, which has the predictive input too. I was very happy with the Nokia 9000-series keyboards, though. The keys are large and there's enough distance between them. I wouldn't mind a clamshell 770 successor with those keys and a wide screen for watching movies :) Ted ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: [maemo-users] 770 on the way
Dave Cridland wrote: Whatever the reasons, though, this does eliminate a large selling tool that Nokia's phones have, which was Jonathan's point. The 770 is not a phone. Neither is a Nokia firewall appliance. They are completely different markets. FWIW, I live in the U.S. and the last phone I bought from a carrier was a TDMA/analog device that was purchased by my employer ten years ago. -Gary ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: [maemo-users] 770 on the way
If the 870 had a pull-out keyboard, that would be compelling enough for me. Otherwise, I'd probably skip a generation or two. Indeed! I have an n770 and would definitely buy an 870 if it had a keyboard with a CTRL and ESC button (that is, a keyboard on which I could code, run vim, etc) ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: [maemo-users] 770 on the way
If the 870 had a pull-out keyboard, that would be compelling enough for me. Otherwise, I'd probably skip a generation or two. Indeed! I have an n770 and would definitely buy an 870 if it had a keyboard with a CTRL and ESC button (that is, a keyboard on which I could code, run vim, etc) I hear people give this critique about the 770 all the time and occasionally feel compelled to respond. Although there's a place for devices with keyboards, there's a place for devices without them as well. As with the good/fast/cheap dilemma, there's a choice when designing a handheld device: Great screen, great form-factor, built-in thumboard: pick any two. Screen/form-factor is the right choice for me, and the 770 offers a variety of methods for interfacing with external keyboards via bluetooth, USB, and the network (ssh/vnc). I'd rather see external keyboard support improve, and see better touchscreen based input (improved HWR, dasher, hexinput, etc) than see a thumboard added. In fact there's a lot of things I'd like to see before a thumboard. Thanks, Mike ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: [maemo-users] 770 on the way
On 11/30/06, Gary [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jonathan Matthews-Levine wrote: Remembering, of course, that 99%+ of the 770s sold have been, IMHO, *not* on contract, but with the end user paying the full retail price. Why would the 770 be sold by mobile phone companies in the first place? And if so, why would there be a service agreement tied to it? That was sort of my *point* :-) I was attempting (badly!) to make the point that the usual product pattern for Nokia/SE/whoever - where they release some new, interesting device and then release incremental/facelift upgrades that'll support themselves through the artificially buoyed up market of telco contracts - may not be very well suited to the full-price, no-contract-available 770 upgrade. Following from this *and* the 770's fairly (let's be nice :-)) /niche/ market, the 870/780/880/whatever needs to be both a compelling device for new buyers AND a compelling upgrade for existing 770 owners! All IMHO, of course :-) Jonathan -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] That sounds vaguely obscene, and if there's one thing I cannot *stand*, it's vagueness. -- Dean Grennell ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: [maemo-users] 770 on the way
Jonathan Matthews-Levine wrote: That was sort of my *point* :-) I was attempting (badly!) to make the point that the usual product pattern for Nokia/SE/whoever - where they release some new, interesting device and then release incremental/facelift upgrades that'll support themselves through the artificially buoyed up market of telco contracts - may not be very well suited to the full-price, no-contract-available 770 upgrade. Are you from US? Because most people around me (and I guess generally in Europe) buy their phones themselves and not from mobile operator. Operators offer phones too, yes, but they are generally overpriced, outdated and the choice is limited. Maybe companies use this but for average person it does not make sense. Phones and cellular operators are different things. Or do you buy TV from your cable/TV operator? Also majority of people here (70%) use prepaid cards without contract and even have more such cards from different operators and swap them in one phone. Maybe mobile market is more competitive in Europe (or in my country)? I remember phones bought from operators were blocked in firmware to prevent using with other cellular networks but this is history too (maybe noone bought such phones?). So to sum it up I don't think such artifical market exist here or is too important and manufacturers can produce crappy phones because of this. Frantisek ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: [maemo-users] 770 on the way
2006/12/4, Frantisek Dufka [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Jonathan Matthews-Levine wrote: That was sort of my *point* :-) I was attempting (badly!) to make the point that the usual product pattern for Nokia/SE/whoever - where they release some new, interesting device and then release incremental/facelift upgrades that'll support themselves through the artificially buoyed up market of telco contracts - may not be very well suited to the full-price, no-contract-available 770 upgrade. Are you from US? Because most people around me (and I guess generally in Europe) buy their phones themselves and not from mobile operator. Operators offer phones too, yes, but they are generally overpriced, outdated and the choice is limited. Maybe companies use this but for average person it does not make sense. Phones and cellular operators are different things. Or do you buy TV from your cable/TV operator? Also majority of people here (70%) use prepaid cards without contract and even have more such cards from different operators and swap them in one phone. Maybe mobile market is more competitive in Europe (or in my country)? I remember phones bought from operators were blocked in firmware to prevent using with other cellular networks but this is history too (maybe noone bought such phones?). So to sum it up I don't think such artifical market exist here or is too important and manufacturers can produce crappy phones because of this. Frantisek ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users As far as I know, here, in France, most of the phones are sold by operators with contracts. Well, I guess the N770, since it can't be sold with contracts, doesn't fit their needs. Anyway It would be cool if it could be sold in stores instead of nokia's internet shop only. If people could try it before buying it, there'd be many more sales. Everybody who put a hand on mine felt in love with it. Joel ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: [maemo-users] 770 on the way
Hello, On Mon, 2006-12-04 at 11:59 +0100, Frantisek Dufka wrote: Are you from US? Because most people around me (and I guess generally in Europe) buy their phones themselves and not from mobile operator. Just jumping in on this: here in Austria I guess 80-90% of phones are sold by mobile operators including a contract (binding customers usually for 24 months). The phones are usually SIM/Network-locked and also branded by the operator, but usually way cheaper than when buying them without contract (most low end phones are given away with the contract for free), which is probably the reason why they do get sold that way at all. So this artificial market does exist, and the manufacturers do produce crappy phones for this market, because customers don't invest money to buy them (well, at least not directly, of course the binding contract costs money) and will not complain as much as if they had bought it for the retail price. No idea about the rest of Europe (even though in .fi I remember most people wondering about SIM-locked phones as well), so maybe it's just the usual Austrian way of being a bit behind the times. ;) Kind regards WK -- Using Unison on the Nokia 770 http://linux.spiney.org/debian_linux_maemo_nokia_770_unison_port ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: [maemo-users] 770 on the way
On Mon Dec 4 10:59:27 2006, Frantisek Dufka wrote: Are you from US? Because most people around me (and I guess generally in Europe) buy their phones themselves and not from mobile operator. Operators offer phones too, yes, but they are generally overpriced, outdated and the choice is limited. Not in the UK, at least. In the UK, the majority of phones - especially higher end ones - are bought with a pay-monthly contract. This either lowers the price or renders the phone free, but in return, also locks the phone to a specific operator. I'm pretty sure this is a common pattern thoughout much of Europe - our operators include T-Mobile (so I assume the same applies in Germany), and Orange, which is French owned. Even prepay phones are heavily subsidized by the operators, although by no means as much, and the phone selection is much more limited anyway. This leads me to suspect that actually the operators could provide subsidized 770s, since a 770 owner is more likely to use increased mobile data, which in turn the operators can recoup the costs from. But they don't, perhaps because it's a whole new area to them that they'd much rather stay out of, perhaps because they perceive it as too much of a niche market, and perhaps because unlike the phones, which they can essentially customize to their services, they'd never have the same degree of control over the 770. Whatever the reasons, though, this does eliminate a large selling tool that Nokia's phones have, which was Jonathan's point. Dave. -- Dave Cridland - mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - xmpp:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - acap://acap.dave.cridland.net/byowner/user/dwd/bookmarks/ - http://dave.cridland.net/ Infotrope Polymer - ACAP, IMAP, ESMTP, and Lemonade ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: [maemo-users] 770 on the way
[...] Just jumping in on this: here in Austria I guess 80-90% of phones are sold by mobile operators including a contract (binding customers usually for 24 months). The phones are usually SIM/Network-locked and also branded by the operator, but usually way cheaper than when buying them without contract (most low end phones are given away with the contract for free), which is probably the reason why they do get sold that way at all. [...] In Spain this is also true. People usually buy their phones branded/locked by operators. The non-locked unbranded phones are denominated free, and in the last year or so their are also sold in big commercial stores, so I guess their sales are growing a lot... but most of the people I know have a branded phone. -- Eloi Crespillo Itchart ZEN Programari lliure i xarxes SLL [EMAIL PROTECTED] | [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.ikuszen.com | www.grupoikusnet.com ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: [maemo-users] 770 on the way
Wolfgang Karall wrote: Just jumping in on this: here in Austria I guess 80-90% of phones are sold by mobile operators including a contract (binding customers usually for 24 months). The phones are usually SIM/Network-locked and also branded by the operator, but usually way cheaper than when buying them without contract (most low end phones are given away with the contract for free), which is probably the reason why they do get sold that way at all. Well, so maybe we are lucky in Czech Republic after all. That number 70% of customers with prepaid cards I found in some press release of one operator here. I also found we currently have 11.45 milion active SIM cards (population is less that 10milion) so it means 114 active cards to 100 people. Sim locking was used here too but it was abandoned year or two ago by all operators. Probably because customers hated such phones. It was harder to use when switching prepaid cards and harder to sell them second hand. Phones are branded too which is still reason why not to buy them :-) They are (IMHO) cheaper only if you really call a lot (i.e being a businessman with expensive contract) otherwise even 'discounted' operator phones (even with contract) are still a bit more expensive or have similar price like regular ones you buy on each corner. Also young people switch phones like socks (I mean often :-) so new 'discounted' phone after two years of contract is not very attractive. As for operators all three we have were local but were recently bought one by one by T-mobile, Vodafone and O2 so maybe things will get worse. But maybe not. But we have similar monopolistic behaviour with banks. You pay monthly fee for simply having bank account and then pay for each little thing you do (local money transfers both for send and receive, drawing cash from ATM, ...). Banks were recently sold too but this still remains. One bank here recently cancelled fees when you receive money because some people wanted to annoy co-worker and told friends to send him 1CZK via money transfer and he had to pay hundreds (incoming fee was 5CZK) and balance went below zero. It was a bit medialized then :-) But this is really off topic now :-) Frantisek ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: [maemo-users] 770 on the way
If the 870 had a pull-out keyboard, that would be compelling enough for me. Otherwise, I'd probably skip a generation or two. K -- Sent from my Nokia 770 http://astroturfgarden.com - Original message - From: Jonathan Matthews-Levine [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: maemo-users@maemo.org Sent: Mon Dec 4 2006 04:29:32 AM EST Subject: Re: [maemo-users] 770 on the way On 11/30/06, Gary [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jonathan Matthews-Levine wrote: Remembering, of course, that 99%+ of the 770s sold have been, IMHO, *not* on contract, but with the end user paying the full retail price. Why would the 770 be sold by mobile phone companies in the first place? And if so, why would there be a service agreement tied to it? That was sort of my *point* :-) I was attempting (badly!) to make the point that the usual product pattern for Nokia/SE/whoever - where they release some new, interesting device and then release incremental/facelift upgrades that'll support themselves through the artificially buoyed up market of telco contracts - may not be very well suited to the full-price, no-contract-available 770 upgrade. Following from this *and* the 770's fairly (let's be nice :-)) /niche/ market, the 870/780/880/whatever needs to be both a compelling device for new buyers AND a compelling upgrade for existing 770 owners! All IMHO, of course :-) Jonathan -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] That sounds vaguely obscene, and if there's one thing I cannot *stand*, it's vagueness. -- Dean Grennell ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
RE: [maemo-users] 770 on the way
That was sort of my *point* :-) I was attempting (badly!) to make the point that the usual product pattern for Nokia/SE/whoever - where they release some new, interesting device and then release incremental/facelift upgrades that'll support themselves through the artificially buoyed up market of telco contracts - may not be very well suited to the full-price, no-contract-available 770 upgrade. Are you from US? Because most people around me (and I guess generally in Europe) buy their phones themselves and not from mobile operator. Operators offer phones too, yes, but they are generally overpriced, outdated and the choice is limited. Maybe companies use this but for average person it does not make sense. Phones and cellular operators are different things. Or do you buy TV from your cable/TV operator? Also majority of people here (70%) use prepaid cards without contract and even have more such cards from different operators and swap them in one phone. Maybe mobile market is more competitive in Europe (or in my country)? I remember phones bought from operators were blocked in firmware to prevent using with other cellular networks but this is history too (maybe noone bought such phones?). So to sum it up I don't think such artifical market exist here or is too important and manufacturers can produce crappy phones because of this. Frantisek As far as I know, here, in France, most of the phones are sold by operators with contracts. Well, I guess the N770, since it can't be sold with contracts, doesn't fit their needs. Anyway It would be cool if it could be sold in stores instead of nokia's internet shop only. If people could try it before buying it, there'd be many more sales. Everybody who put a hand on mine felt in love with it. Joel Hi there, The internet shop is not the only point of sale. Nokia 770 does sell in several retail chains, for example El Corte Ingles used to have them, CompUSA seems to have them too and I even saw them on sale at airport in Venice;-) However they are not on offer in the usual mobile operator stores, with the notable exception of the Nokia Flagship Stores (AFAIK). Br, --jakub ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
RE: [maemo-users] 770 on the way
I was attempting (badly!) to make the point that the usual product pattern for Nokia/SE/whoever - where they release some new, interesting device and then release incremental/facelift upgrades that'll support themselves through the artificially buoyed up market of telco contracts - may not be very well suited to the full-price, no-contract-available 770 upgrade. Are you from US? Because most people around me (and I guess generally in Europe) buy their phones themselves and not from mobile operator. Operators offer phones too, yes, but they are generally overpriced, outdated and the choice is limited. Maybe companies use this but for average person it does not make sense. Phones and cellular operators are different things. Or do you buy TV from your cable/TV operator? Also majority of people here (70%) use prepaid cards without contract and even have more such cards from different operators and swap them in one phone. Maybe mobile market is more competitive in Europe (or in my country)? I remember phones bought from operators were blocked in firmware to prevent using with other cellular networks but this is history too (maybe noone bought such phones?). Certainly everyone I know in the UK gets a phone as part of the line rental package (or at least discounted by it) from their service provider/operator (e.g. Vodafone, Orange, etc.). Seems like there are major differences within Europe too (not too surprisingly). Regards, Simon ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Aw: RE: [maemo-users] 770 on the way
Hello there are several stores in germany which sell the device with contracts, expes. with upgrades that meens that the customers have a mobile and gget the device cheaper. - Ursprüngliche Mitteilung - Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] An: maemo-users@maemo.org Gesendet: Mo., 4. Dez. 2006 12:24:05 CET Betreff: RE: [maemo-users] 770 on the way That was sort of my *point* :-) I was attempting (badly!) to make the point that the usual product pattern for Nokia/SE/whoever - where they release some new, interesting device and then release incremental/facelift upgrades that'll support themselves through the artificially buoyed up market of telco contracts - may not be very well suited to the full-price, no-contract-available 770 upgrade. Are you from US? Because most people around me (and I guess generally in Europe) buy their phones themselves and not from mobile operator. Operators offer phones too, yes, but they are generally overpriced, outdated and the choice is limited. Maybe companies use this but for average person it does not make sense. Phones and cellular operators are different things. Or do you buy TV from your cable/TV operator? Also majority of people here (70%) use prepaid cards without contract and even have more such cards from different operators and swap them in one phone. Maybe mobile market is more competitive in Europe (or in my country)? I remember phones bought from operators were blocked in firmware to prevent using with other cellular networks but this is history too (maybe noone bought such phones?). So to sum it up I don't think such artifical market exist here or is too important and manufacturers can produce crappy phones because of this. Frantisek As far as I know, here, in France, most of the phones are sold by operators with contracts. Well, I guess the N770, since it can't be sold with contracts, doesn't fit their needs. Anyway It would be cool if it could be sold in stores instead of nokia's internet shop only. If people could try it before buying it, there'd be many more sales. Everybody who put a hand on mine felt in love with it. Joel Hi there, The internet shop is not the only point of sale. Nokia 770 does sell in several retail chains, for example El Corte Ingles used to have them, CompUSA seems to have them too and I even saw them on sale at airport in Venice;-) However they are not on offer in the usual mobile operator stores, with the notable exception of the Nokia Flagship Stores (AFAIK). Br, --jakub Attachment:___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: RE: [maemo-users] 770 on the way
Hi, all This entire thread seems to be referring to the Nokia N770 as a phone, which it is certainly not unless one considers GoogleTalk a phone feature of the like of GSM and UMTS phones. The N770 is a pocket computer first and foremost. It does come from a company that, among other things, is well known for phones. B.R. - Original Message - From: Mathias Uebelacker To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: maemo-users@maemo.org Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 7:24 PM Subject: Aw: RE: [maemo-users] 770 on the way Hello there are several stores in germany which sell the device with contracts, expes. with upgrades that meens that the customers have a mobile and gget the device cheaper. - Ursprüngliche Mitteilung - Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] An: maemo-users@maemo.org Gesendet: Mo., 4. Dez. 2006 12:24:05 CET Betreff: RE: [maemo-users] 770 on the way That was sort of my *point* :-) I was attempting (badly!) to make the point that the usual product pattern for Nokia/SE/whoever - where they release some new, interesting device and then release incremental/facelift upgrades that'll support themselves through the artificially buoyed up market of telco contracts - may not be very well suited to the full-price, no-contract-available 770 upgrade. Are you from US? Because most people around me (and I guess generally in Europe) buy their phones themselves and not from mobile operator. Operators offer phones too, yes, but they are generally overpriced, outdated and the choice is limited. Maybe companies use this but for average person it does not make sense. Phones and cellular operators are different things. Or do you buy TV from your cable/TV operator? Also majority of people here (70%) use prepaid cards without contract and even have more such cards from different operators and swap them in one phone. Maybe mobile market is more competitive in Europe (or in my country)? I remember phones bought from operators were blocked in firmware to prevent using with other cellular networks but this is history too (maybe noone bought such phones?). So to sum it up I don't think such artifical market exist here or is too important and manufacturers can produce crappy phones because of this. Frantisek As far as I know, here, in France, most of the phones are sold by operators with contracts. Well, I guess the N770, since it can't be sold with contracts, doesn't fit their needs. Anyway It would be cool if it could be sold in stores instead of nokia's internet shop only. If people could try it before buying it, there'd be many more sales. Everybody who put a hand on mine felt in love with it. Joel Hi there, The internet shop is not the only point of sale. Nokia 770 does sell in several retail chains, for example El Corte Ingles used to have them, CompUSA seems to have them too and I even saw them on sale at airport in Venice;-) However they are not on offer in the usual mobile operator stores, with the notable exception of the Nokia Flagship Stores (AFAIK). Br, --jakub Attachment: -- ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: [maemo-users] 770 on the way
On 30 Nov 2006, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Features I'd like to see are • better memory swap - no browser quits More memory is always good, period. I would gladly pay for 1 GB memory! The option to do so should at least be available. I know the CPU in the 770 can't do more than 128 MB according to the specs, but perhaps there's a newer and faster one that would work. The current swap situation is a real problem. I miss GEOS :) In 1 MB RAM they fit a full GUI environment, including a nice DTP system, spreadsheet, database, games, etc. I bought the first Nokia 9000 communicator that ran GEOS when it was available in the USA, and I keep wondering what could have happened if that platform had taken off. In case anyone is curious about how they did it: all the system libraries were implemented in object-oriented assembler, heh. They seem to be gone now. The Maemo developers may find this interesting, from http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=1864 4. Technically speaking, what was the strongest point of GEOS at the time? Adam de Boor: GEOS had two major strengths, technically speaking: 1. it was highly, highly optimized 2. so much of what an application needed to do was already implemented as object classes in the system, with a nice model/view/controller mechanism to allow you to incorporate the classes into your apps. We often pointed out that GeoWrite, which could do a number of things in 1990 that Word only got to in 2000, was only 150K, and about half of that was precompiled object instances. What we didn't say was there was another 500K of code in the system that implemented most of the functionality. GeoWrite itself was primarily a document manager and UI resource. • a slightly faster processor never hurts Ditto, see above. Ted ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: [maemo-users] 770 on the way
On Wed, Nov 29, 2006 at 09:28:47PM -0800, Chris Louden wrote: Aside from making sure it has a good charge and general config whats the first thing I should do/install/upgrade? There's no should, but you may be interested in these: - Upgrade the OS version to 2.2006.39-14 if your device doesn't have it yet: http://europe.nokia.com/A4144790. You can find out the version you have in the Control Panel. - Add the Maemo Garage repository to the Application Manager. The details are at http://maemo.org/maemowiki/ApplicationRepositories Not every interesting package is there yet, so you may want to add some other repositories as well. - Install FBReader: the killer app for the 770, in my humble opinion. You can get free e-books from http://www.baen.com/library/, or buy DRM-less ones from http://www.webscription.net/. There are other sources as well, it's just that I remember these two best. - Panel clock applet from: http://www.home.unix-ag.org/simon/files/n770/ panelclock_0.5_armel.deb - CPU/Memory usage applet (load-applet) from the Maemo Garage repository. - SSH server and client: http://maemo.org/maemowiki/InstallSsh2006 - Password Safe for keeping all those passwords you cannot remember - Create a swap file on the MMC card so the device doesn't run out of memory if you have three browser windows, an audio player, and an e-book open at the same time. You can do that in the Control Panel. The downside is that if you enable swap, you can no longer use the USB cable for accessing the MMC card's contents conveniently from your laptop. (I use wifi + sshfs instead, because I do not like cables anyway.) Is there anything that's not intuitive, or anything that is not very well documented that you can suggest based on your experiences? What don't I know that I should know to make best use of the 770 Here's what I use my tablet for: - e-books (FBReader) - mp3 player while walking or driving (a universal car PDA holder is nice to have) - SSH client - web browser - password safe - GPS navigation device with Maemo Mapper and a Bluetooth GPS I almost never use it for email (and when I do I prefer ssh + mutt) or jabber/google talk. Can it transmit audio via the bluetooth? No. Or would the only way to get audio to a headset be something like this http://www.logitech.com/lang/images/0/13149.jpg which has its own transmitter? Currently, yes. It is possible that a future OS upgrade will add Bluetooth headset support, but don't hold your breath. My interests are using it to read web/gmail/rss, Doable, not very convenient. I sometimes use my 770 for web browsing when I'm too lazy to pull out my laptop out of my backpack; that should give you the relative estimation of the inconvenience ;) listen to mp3s, No problem. and play basic games. None of the available games hooked me so far, but then maybe I just lost my passion for gaming. I've been quite infatuated with the 770 for some time. I absolutely love it. I know its predecessor is just around the corner I think you mean successor. I don't like what I see in the leaked pictures. It's ugly. but I could not hold off any longer and ordered one. Should arrive by the end of the week with a 2GB RS-MMC. You definitely want to upgrade to the 2.2006.39-14 OS version then. Earlier ones didn't support 2GB cards. I have a 1GB card, and so far it has been (barely) sufficient. I think it was the images I saw of the Canola project that made me decide I could no longer wait. Marius Gedminas -- Never attribute to malloc that which can be adequately explained by stupidity. -- From the .sig of [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Joerg Pommnitz) signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: [maemo-users] 770 on the way
On 11/30/06, Marius Gedminas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, Nov 29, 2006 at 09:28:47PM -0800, Chris Louden wrote: I've been quite infatuated with the 770 for some time. I absolutely love it. aolme too/aol I know its [sucessor] is just around the corner I don't like what I see in the leaked pictures. It's ugly. aolme too/aol I seriously hope that the leaked pictures were for some other (perhaps GPS-oriented) device. 'Cos - frankly - it just didn't seem to offer sufficient advantages over the hopefully-now-proven success of the 770. Remembering, of course, that 99%+ of the 770s sold have been, IMHO, *not* on contract, but with the end user paying the full retail price. We're not on the wait 6 months and see what my mobile telco will offer me to extend my contract cycle, but have to make the /choice/ to invest. The skunkware nature of the 770 that I'd come to understand limited the hardware design to reusing existing components where at all possible (and - sometimes - where it would only degrade the design to an acceptable degree) should make any dedicated-design upgrade better *by*definition* - not worse. both aesthetically AND capability-wise. I *really* want to get excited by the 770++. Nokia: Make it so/picard :-) //jcml -- Jonathan Matthews-Levine That sounds vaguely obscene, and if there's one thing I cannot *stand*, it's vagueness. -- Dean Grennell ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: [maemo-users] 770 on the way
I hear you on the rumored update... while the increse in memory looks to be nice it's pretty nasty looking. I like the blackness... though the built in handle / stand is slick. Features I'd like to see are • voice over bluetooth - I mean how the heck did Nokia not do this particularly with VOIP in mind. • better memory swap - no browser quits • slide out keyboard - though each time I really think I want this I consider that I use my 770 more to receive than to input info • a slightly faster processor never hurts • flash 7+ so we can do youtube and other streaming video sites. On 11/30/06, Jonathan Matthews-Levine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 11/30/06, Marius Gedminas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, Nov 29, 2006 at 09:28:47PM -0800, Chris Louden wrote: I've been quite infatuated with the 770 for some time. I absolutely love it. aolme too/aol I know its [sucessor] is just around the corner I don't like what I see in the leaked pictures. It's ugly. aolme too/aol I seriously hope that the leaked pictures were for some other (perhaps GPS-oriented) device. 'Cos - frankly - it just didn't seem to offer sufficient advantages over the hopefully-now-proven success of the 770. Remembering, of course, that 99%+ of the 770s sold have been, IMHO, *not* on contract, but with the end user paying the full retail price. We're not on the wait 6 months and see what my mobile telco will offer me to extend my contract cycle, but have to make the /choice/ to invest. The skunkware nature of the 770 that I'd come to understand limited the hardware design to reusing existing components where at all possible (and - sometimes - where it would only degrade the design to an acceptable degree) should make any dedicated-design upgrade better *by*definition* - not worse. both aesthetically AND capability-wise. I *really* want to get excited by the 770++. Nokia: Make it so/picard :-) //jcml -- Jonathan Matthews-Levine That sounds vaguely obscene, and if there's one thing I cannot *stand*, it's vagueness. -- Dean Grennell ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: [maemo-users] 770 on the way
Jonathan Matthews-Levine wrote: Remembering, of course, that 99%+ of the 770s sold have been, IMHO, *not* on contract, but with the end user paying the full retail price. Why would the 770 be sold by mobile phone companies in the first place? And if so, why would there be a service agreement tied to it? -Gary ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: [maemo-users] 770 on the way
I know its [sucessor] is just around the corner I don't like what I see in the leaked pictures. It's ugly. http://www.i4u.com/article6951.html It's GPS/Media. Not a web device (according to this site, the photo's aren't leaked either, Nokia announced the 330). ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: [maemo-users] 770 on the way
Alex Crough wrote: I know its [sucessor] is just around the corner I don't like what I see in the leaked pictures. It's ugly. http://www.i4u.com/article6951.html It's GPS/Media. Not a web device (according to this site, the photo's aren't leaked either, Nokia announced the 330). I believe the successor to 770 is the rumored 870 as shown here http://www.engadget.com/2006/10/26/nokia-870-surfaces-in-the-wild/ Sameer -- Dr. Sameer Verma, Ph.D. Associate Professor of Information Systems San Francisco State University San Francisco CA 94132 USA http://verma.sfsu.edu/ http://opensource.sfsu.edu/ ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
[maemo-users] 770 on the way
Hello, If someone could answer a few questions for me as I am new to the 770 I would appreciate it. On/Off list doesn't matter in case my questions are not appropriate for the list. Aside from making sure it has a good charge and general config whats the first thing I should do/install/upgrade? Is there anything that's not intuitive, or anything that is not very well documented that you can suggest based on your experiences? What don't I know that I should know to make best use of the 770 Can it transmit audio via the bluetooth? Or would the only way to get audio to a headset be something like this http://www.logitech.com/lang/images/0/13149.jpg which has its own transmitter? My interests are using it to read web/gmail/rss, listen to mp3s, and play basic games. I've been quite infatuated with the 770 for some time. I know its predecessor is just around the corner but I could not hold off any longer and ordered one. Should arrive by the end of the week with a 2GB RS-MMC. I think it was the images I saw of the Canola project that made me decide I could no longer wait. ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
