[Mailman-Users] Re: Question on outputting all lists and list owners and a process for batch disabling of lists without an owner

[John Lake]

Thanks very much Bruce and Mark!  

Much appreciated,

John

On 5/27/22, 1:53 PM, "Mark Sapiro"  wrote:

On 5/27/22 12:47, Bruce Johnson via Mailman-Users wrote:
> Well some guy named Mark supported one method in the past 8-) (which I 
found googling ‘how to disable a mailman 2 list’ because I’d like to know how, 
too, since we do occasionally have need to do this.)
> 
> 
https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2010-September/070283.html__;!!C5qS4YX3!AJcsaCQavpDgwaaIVqilPzNAu0rJ_NfoDw_GIKESav0V0oT2bK06YElcB7px4bxmW9JrUvOMkdrHNRxH$
 

The method in that thread is simply moving the lists/ aside. 
That is one way to disable a list, but there are others depending on 
what you actually want. For that, this withlist script will do it.
```
import os
from Mailman import Site
BACKUP_DIR = 'path to a mailman writable directory'
def no_owner(mlist)
 if len mlist.owner == 0:
 print('List %s has no owners, disabling.' % mlist.real_name)
 src = Site.get_listpath(mlist.internal_name())
 dst = os.path.join(BACKUP_DIR, mlist.internal_name())
 os.rename(src, dst)
```
BACKUP_DIR is set to the full path of the directory in which to save the 
list configurations. To avoid potential issues with os.rename, 
BACKUP_DIR should be on the same file system as Mailman's lists/ directory.

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[Mailman-Users] Question on outputting all lists and list owners and a process for batch disabling of lists without an owner

[John Lake]

Howdy!

To start with, a belated thank you is in order for Mark Sapiro –I leveraged 
your suggestion for batch changing list owners (in our case, changing list 
owner from owner “a” to owner “b” for 700 lists)  from your post here:

https://answers.launchpad.net/mailman/+question/111591  


Our security department has asked me to canvas all of our lists (4,237!)—and if 
a list owner value is not defined they want me to disable the list.


  1.  Can I combine the list_lists and list_owners commands to output both 
(hopefully linked) values as a .csv?
  2.  Is there a script that any of you have leveraged to batch disable lists 
without a defined owner?


Thanks in advance for the assistance, I really appreciate this community as I 
don’t have much Linux Fu and the GNU resources and assistance have been 
invaluable!

Best,

John
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[Mailman-Users] Re: Troubleshooting steps for moderated messages (supposedly) sent without list admin approval?

[John Lake]

Thanks Odhiambo!!

From: Odhiambo Washington 
Date: Thursday, March 10, 2022 at 12:51 PM
To: John Lake 
Cc: "mailman-users@python.org" 
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Troubleshooting steps for moderated messages 
(supposedly) sent without list admin approval?



On Thu, Mar 10, 2022 at 10:07 PM John Lake 
mailto:johnl...@uoregon.edu>> wrote:
Good morning,

We had a ticket come in this morning that I could use some guidance on, posted 
below.  The ticket had screen shots of the original messages and the 
authorization messages sent to the list admins. I can confirm that the messages 
each had unique eml attachments.  Are there log files that show the moderator 
approvals?Thanks in advance for any assistance as I try to dig on this 
oddity..  

“It appears there was an issue with our Mailman listserv today and I am hoping 
you may be able to shed more light on why/how it happened. We use mailman to 
manage the “(redacted list name)” which was used to distribute a message about 
commencement plans to academic and administrative leadership today. We got the 
original request but the message didn't appear in the moderation queue (it said 
there was nothing there). We needed to make some changes to the message so we 
had it resent for moderation and approved it through. The second message went 
out fine, but now the first message has also gone out without anyone approving 
it.”

/path/mailman/log/vette*

--
Best regards,
Odhiambo WASHINGTON,
Nairobi,KE
+254 7 3200 0004/+254 7 2274 3223
"Oh, the cruft.", egrep -v '^$|^.*#' :-)
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[Mailman-Users] Troubleshooting steps for moderated messages (supposedly) sent without list admin approval?

[John Lake]

Good morning,

We had a ticket come in this morning that I could use some guidance on, posted 
below.  The ticket had screen shots of the original messages and the 
authorization messages sent to the list admins. I can confirm that the messages 
each had unique eml attachments.  Are there log files that show the moderator 
approvals?Thanks in advance for any assistance as I try to dig on this 
oddity..  

“It appears there was an issue with our Mailman listserv today and I am hoping 
you may be able to shed more light on why/how it happened. We use mailman to 
manage the “(redacted list name)” which was used to distribute a message about 
commencement plans to academic and administrative leadership today. We got the 
original request but the message didn't appear in the moderation queue (it said 
there was nothing there). We needed to make some changes to the message so we 
had it resent for moderation and approved it through. The second message went 
out fine, but now the first message has also gone out without anyone approving 
it.”





Thanks,

John Lake
Application Security Analyst
University of Oregon


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[Mailman-Users] Re: is log4j2 leveraged in Mailman version 2.1.14-1?

[John Lake]

Good to know!  I'll move this up to the front burner.  ; )

-Original Message-
From: Carl Zwanzig  
Sent: Friday, December 10, 2021 1:39 PM
To: mailman-users@python.org
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: is log4j2 leveraged in Mailman version 2.1.14-1?

On 12/10/2021 1:28 PM, John Lake wrote:
> @Carl Zwanzig--  excellent point, I've inherited this older version of 
> Mailman and its definitely on my maintenance debt list to upgrade to 
> ver
> 3+.  
You can upgrade to 2.1.current(35?) quite easily, might take an hour :D. 
Highly recommended.

z!

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[Mailman-Users] Re: is log4j2 leveraged in Mailman version 2.1.14-1?

[John Lake]

@David Gibbs--thanks!  That was my assumption but I appreciate the feedback and 
confirmation.  @Carl Zwanzig--  excellent point, I've inherited this older 
version of Mailman and its definitely on my maintenance debt list to upgrade to 
ver 3+.  

Thanks again,

John

-Original Message-
From: Carl Zwanzig  
Sent: Friday, December 10, 2021 1:04 PM
To: mailman-users@python.org
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: is log4j2 leveraged in Mailman version 2.1.14-1?

On 12/10/2021 1:00 PM, David Gibbs via Mailman-Users wrote:
> On Fri, Dec 10, 2021 at 2:40 PM John Lake  wrote:
>> Does Mailman version 2.1.14-1 utilize Java logging library log4j2 and if so, 
>> what version does it use?
> 
> Mailman is written in python ... it doesn't use java libraries at all.

And if they're still running 2.1.14, they have a heap of other security holes.

Later,

z!


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[Mailman-Users] is log4j2 leveraged in Mailman version 2.1.14-1?

[John Lake]

Good morning and Happy Friday!

You may have seen this exploit announcement today, our IT department at the 
university is in triage mode:

https://www.lunasec.io/docs/blog/log4j-zero-day/#affected-apache-log4j2-versions

Does Mailman version 2.1.14-1 utilize Java logging library log4j2 and if so, 
what version does it use?

These are the affected versions:  Affected Apache log4j2 
Versions​

2.0 <= Apache log4j <= 2.14.1

Thanks in advance for your input!

John
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[Mailman-Users] Re: Expected mailq behavior/maintenance commands

[John Lake]

Thanks Mark!

I checked Defaults.py and it appears that the VERP_DELIVERY_INTERVAL value 
setting is "0".



-Original Message-
From: Mark Sapiro  
Sent: Monday, November 1, 2021 9:26 AM
To: mailman-users@python.org
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: Expected mailq behavior/maintenance commands

On 11/1/21 7:54 AM, John Lake wrote:
> Thanks Steve and Mark!  Which file has the VERP_DELIVERY_INTERVAL setting?  I 
> did not see it in mm_cfg or the .py files in the MTA directory.


If it is not set in mm_cfg.py, it assumes the default value from Defaults.py.

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[Mailman-Users] Re: Expected mailq behavior/maintenance commands

[John Lake]

Thanks Steve and Mark!  Which file has the VERP_DELIVERY_INTERVAL setting?  I 
did not see it in mm_cfg or the .py files in the MTA directory.

We had a pronounced spike again in the /mqueue dir earlier this morning --it 
went up to more than 1200 messages and then 30 minutes later it was back down 
to 110.

Thanks again,

John

-Original Message-
From: Stephen J. Turnbull  
Sent: Monday, November 1, 2021 12:03 AM
To: Mark Sapiro 
Cc: mailman-users@python.org
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: Expected mailq behavior/maintenance commands

Mark Sapiro writes:

 > On the other hand, if VERP_DELIVERY_INTERVAL is set to 0, Mailman will  > 
 > deliver messages to Sendmail in chunks with multiple recipients per  > 
 > message.

Note that personalization also affects this.  For example, if the footer 
contains the subscriber's subscription page URL, the message has to be 
submitted separately for each subscriber.

I think those two settings are everything that affects the ability of the MTA 
to send to multiple recipients in one SMTP transaction.  Mark?

Steve

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[Mailman-Users] Re: Expected mailq behavior/maintenance commands

[John Lake]

Hi Mark,

Thanks very much for your fast response--I have a lot to learn and I really 
appreciate the help.

The qfiles/out directory is clear, the queued messages are in var/spool/mqueue.

We use Sendmail as our MTA , I'll ping our Unix admin on the setting that you 
referenced below:

"If delivery is too slow, you may be able to address this in the MTA. You want 
the MTA to do no address verification at incoming SMTP time and minimal other 
checking."

I'll keep doing some digging, thanks again for the links and helpful 
information!

John

-Original Message-
From: Mark Sapiro  
Sent: Friday, October 29, 2021 3:49 PM
To: mailman-users@python.org
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: Expected mailq behavior/maintenance commands

On 10/29/21 8:18 AM, John Lake wrote:
> 
> It is now below 200 messages.  I have not monitored the queue this 
> closely before and it has raised some questions.  
> 
> I’ve looked through the documentation and community posts on the GNU website 
> and I have not found specific information relating to what the expected mailq 
> behavior/healthy number of messages is.  I expect that this would vary by the 
> environment and number of messages sent but am curious as to what would 
> considered to be a normal/healthy threshold of queued messages.


Are you talking about MTA queues or Mailman's out queue? If you are talking 
about messages queued in the MTA, There's not much Mailman can do about that. 
If you are talking about messages queued in Mailman's out queue, normally this 
queue should be empty and if it has lots of queued messages, the queue is 
backlogged due to slow delivery to the MTA.

What to do about this depends on the MTA and some Mailman settings. 
There are many posts on this in the archives of this list. See 
https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://mail.python.org/archives/search?mlist=mailman-users*40python.org=backlogged*out*queue__;JSsr!!C5qS4YX3!T8Jt2kqtKunmlhTuLnmR_AgyvFvPCI-M5Bf0_THJBd-eqJBhL6jxN6StoUlCbrw2DUI$
 

In particular, see
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for what to look for in Mailman's smtp log. If delivery is too slow, you may be 
able to address this in the MTA. You want the MTA to do no address verification 
at incoming SMTP time and minimal other checking. 
You may want to set up an alternate port for Mailman to deliver to.


> Are there purge/maintenance commands that can be leveraged for normal 
> maintenance or in the case above—more of a kill-switch purge?


All you can do is manually move *.pck files out of Mailman's qfiles/out/ 
directory, but then those messages won't be delivered until you put them back.

If you have reason to believe some messages are unwanted, you can use Mailman's 
bin/show_qfiles command to inspect them and then delete unwanted ones.

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[Mailman-Users] Expected mailq behavior/maintenance commands

[John Lake]

Howdy,

Not-so-longtime watcher—first time poster.  I’ll start by saying how much that 
I appreciate this Mailman resource, as a noob it has proved very valuable for 
me.

I inherited the service owner role of Mailman recently and have been impressed 
at how well it works.  Have not had any major pings until a few days ago, our 
monitoring system alerts if the queue exceeds 400 messages and it spiked to 
more than 600.  It appears that a mass mailer produced a large number of 
bounces.

One of my co-workers moved some of the messages out of the queue and it rapidly 
went down to below 300—and then vacillated over the next few days between 
225-260 messages.

It is now below 200 messages.  I have not monitored the queue this closely 
before and it has raised some questions.  

I’ve looked through the documentation and community posts on the GNU website 
and I have not found specific information relating to what the expected mailq 
behavior/healthy number of messages is.  I expect that this would vary by the 
environment and number of messages sent but am curious as to what would 
considered to be a normal/healthy threshold of queued messages.

Are there purge/maintenance commands that can be leveraged for normal 
maintenance or in the case above—more of a kill-switch purge?

Thanks in advance for any assistance.

Happy Friday!

John Lake

Application Security Analyst
University of Oregon
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