[Mailman-Users] Re: Cloudmark blacklist
Jayson, The top blog post on this site is currently on the topic of getting Gmail and others to accept self-hosted email: https://infosec.engineering Looks like Jerry uses Mailgun. Michael Reeder mich...@hygeiacounseling.com Baltimore, MD On April 14, 2024 11:48:20 AM EDT, Michael Reeder -- Hygeia MS wrote: >Jayson, > >I'm not sure I'm fully knowledgeable enough in this matter to help, but >maybe... > >For my Mastodon VPS I use sendpulse.com as the outgoing SMTP server. They >have a surprisingly high threshold of free outbound SMTP messages they allow >per month before asking you for a paid plan. So far, I have had no problem >with blocked messages, so you might try them? > >FYI -- This is a company based in Ukraine with their servers in Germany, so >not sure what happens if Russia makes further strides in the war. > >-- Michael > >*Michael Reeder, LCPC >* >*Hygeia Counseling Services : Baltimore / Mt. Washington Village location* >*410-871-TALK / michael(at)hygeiacounseling.com* > > >On 3/16/2024 11:10 AM, Jayson Smith wrote: >> Hi, >> >> What I mean is that I'd love to find a good, reliable smarthost I can direct >> my SMTP server on my VPS to use. I've heard knowledgeable friends say over >> and over and over again, "Anyone who runs their own Email server is just >> asking for trouble, it's not worth it any more." The real problem I'm seeing >> is that seemingly within the last few years, at least some VPS providers >> (Linode and Digital Ocean for sure) have started getting entire IP ranges >> put on blocklists. My first experience of being put on UCEPROTECT level 3 >> was on January 20, 2021, and a few weeks ago my IP wound up on UCEPROTECT >> level 2. Yes, I know how the UCEPROTECT lists work, but the point is that I >> never used to find my IP on those lists, but now it happens every few >> months. I have to think something has happened to cause more spammers to use >> these providers. >> >> As for incoming Email, I'd like for my own SMTP server to be able to >> continue handling it. The reason is that I don't want some other Email >> provider's spam blocking software deciding what I get to see. I have some >> incoming spam control measures in place for specific Email addresses that >> tend to receive a lot of spam, but for me and my family members, everything >> gets through. Yes this means we get incoming spam that comes our way, but it >> also means we don't have to worry about an important incoming message going >> missing because it was sent to the spam folder or silently discarded. >> >> Thanks for any thoughts, >> >> Jayson >> >> On 3/16/2024 5:26 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: >>> Jayson Smith writes: >>> >>> > I'm getting really tired of these unexplained blacklistings. Does >>> > anyone know of any reliable outgoing Email service providers? >>> >>> What do you mean by that? Gmail for example allows you (or did allow >>> you 18 months ago) to validate an alternate address through the usual >>> "can you read this mail and send back a cookie" dance, and use those >>> validated addresses in From. >>> >>> Unfortunately, in my experience at least Gmail won't allow you to use >>> a non-gmail address in From unless you're using their app or browser >>> client. Authenticated SMTP to port 587 doesn't cut it for whatever >>> reason. The best I could figure out was sending through eg gmail >>> using From: m...@gmail.com and setting Reply-To. >>> >>> > Ideally I want to continue to handle my own incoming Email because >>> > I don't want someone else's spam blocking software deciding what >>> > Emails I receive. >>> >>> I don't know of freemail who allows that, unfortunately. The closest >>> I know of is Google, as above. >-- >Mailman-Users mailing list -- mailman-users@python.org >To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-le...@python.org >https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/ >Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 >Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 >Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/ > https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-users@python.org/ >Member address: mich...@hygeiacounseling.com -- Mailman-Users mailing list -- mailman-users@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-le...@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/ Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/ https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-users@python.org/ Member address: arch...@jab.org
[Mailman-Users] Re: Admin Panel Spam Filters: Filtering Message Body for Keywords?
Thank you Mark. Very thorough explanation. Appreciated. Michael Reeder mich...@hygeiacounseling.com On April 14, 2024 8:49:18 PM EDT, Mark Sapiro wrote: >On 4/14/24 08:34, Michael Reeder -- Hygeia MS wrote: >> Hello All, >> >> **Question: Is there a way to use [Spam filters] (or any other setting in >> the GUI admin panel) to filter for keywords in the body of the incoming >> email message?** > > >No. Those only filter against message headers, not the message body. > >To filter based on the message body requires a custom handler. There is a FAQ >artile at https://wiki.list.org/x/4030615 that discusses this, but > >> My situation is that I don't have access to the back-end to set up any more >> sophisticated filters (Dream Host) so I need to ONLY utilize tools available >> through the web GUI administrative panel. > > >implementing a custom handler requires more access than you have. > > >> Online examples of how to do this are strangely hard to find, other than >> discussions of how to look at headers for spam filter scores. > > >In the GUI see Privacy options... -> Spam filters -> Details for >header_filter_rules if you haven't already. > > >> **Question: Is there a way to use [Spam filters] (or any other setting in >> the GUI admin panel) to filter for keywords in the body of the incoming >> email message?** > >No. > >-- >Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, >San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan > >-- >Mailman-Users mailing list -- mailman-users@python.org >To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-le...@python.org >https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/ >Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 >Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 >Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/ > https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-users@python.org/ >Member address: mich...@hygeiacounseling.com -- Mailman-Users mailing list -- mailman-users@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-le...@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/ Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/ https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-users@python.org/ Member address: arch...@mail-archive.com
[Mailman-Users] B.S. With Google Yellow Boxes and GNU Mailman
This may well be a Dream Host administrative issue rather than a GNU Mailman issue.?? That said I'm wondering if: a) There is anything I can do from the administrative interface, or b) Anything I can ask Dream Host to do as they have admin rights on the server CONCERN: Gmail has started sticking a yellow warning box on every GNU Mailman email to Gmail users this week stating to "Be careful with this message" and that they can't verify that it actually came from clinicians-excha...@lists.clinicians-exchange.org. They then provide buttons to report it as spam or phishing. Gmail is also indicating: SPF:?? NEUTRAL with IP 64.90.62.202 DKIM:?? 'FAIL' with domain gmail.com This is freaking out a few of my users. I'm attaching a screenshot of the message and source code for the same message.?? Hopefully this list allows attachments... I already tried using filters in Gmail (as an end user) to try and mark the messages safe, but this does not work. I have a support message in with Dream Host as well. Thanks Michael *Michael Reeder, LCPC * *Hygeia Counseling Services : Baltimore / Mt. Washington Village location* *410-871-TALK / michael(at)hygeiacounseling.com* *http://www.hygeiacounseling.com - main website. * Delivered-To: reederfullsl...@gmail.com Received: by 2002:ac4:9195:0:b0:535:ca28:6c09 with SMTP id m21csp2767303pic; Mon, 1 Aug 2022 19:06:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-Smtp-Source: AA6agR7TXywrqhmADbZsCtXoT4kqeag0EzhJYZnuTsGrT/XSrKIJUK0gYPC0MOfhbCltn2768vYa X-Received: by 2002:a63:8249:0:b0:41b:d328:20fd with SMTP id w70-20020a63824900b0041bd32820fdmr9923565pgd.38.1659406003685; Mon, 01 Aug 2022 19:06:43 -0700 (PDT) ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; t=1659406003; cv=none; d=google.com; s=arc-20160816; b=Ocea1qHkq5N549blu8KlrcDtjWxI5EEq7nayKcjwZ7T3VJs4mORFVA5teXBpn0Q5U/ AgrQqbs/BrijHcIZ+0LWCGEZRLCUAKo3Y9KZ+YHGmS8S/V/ronUrZJODn/8JCLWtV8SV Biw982zCdA/F1i0rzR+Grqv3bjN7H/JLa2Pqd8eG3g9j4myjAwfBTaByfLlVDIYWex3/ HMdq/ALSJldd9fG1WMORXghnCv+k2vZBEojMG+bo0SPn1MoAT9afqLOUQWHXSBvouaZo dsrCjP957ZuLUSdPZofGNbklURveO1u82Qfs8QPpDKHH7mJSkoS+P8N3i+c0yk4nPVeW ymPw== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=arc-20160816; h=sender:errors-to:content-transfer-encoding:cc:reply-to:from :list-subscribe:list-help:list-post:list-archive:list-unsubscribe :list-id:precedence:subject:to:content-language:user-agent :mime-version:date:message-id:dkim-signature:delivered-to; bh=kx4Auo4pZg7gqLor2KAw7AUVYYsK0WHZVldxAiqLcJw=; b=L8amcDITQmLhNG0NOziwhI/ovkp7m583eNTH/X8XYu1LWY5kdOscRG7dEBXed1sREv 7JQ3qP9t9shs+v1VREtNWzZs72SGv2J+iCASY6XEApbJ3JeHyoyfxRJqz7k6EmywVvkk Vvg9yrdcBuL3xYSA14bhXkV0htyPa+ycS8laIiLS4hRam7q0WealZDQJG32FwjJ1yZQa ce/JXjI0VanVDLrolkC00hMIA36LZJn68PIx54m3jZgoxi4q5tSukbzdmvfmDZStyBhD 3oU3A4Pc/uEzvVvoHLIRBHBur0v0bYCROHu+21vbfbNMhQK+rHY8i2YGCWXQse8Yrgiy iDwQ== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.google.com; dkim=neutral (body hash did not verify) header.i=@gmail.com header.s=20210112 header.b=CNSOtBcq; spf=neutral (google.com: 64.90.62.202 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of clinicians-exchange-boun...@lists.clinicians-exchange.org) smtp.mailfrom=clinicians-exchange-boun...@lists.clinicians-exchange.org Return-Path: Received: from pdx1-mailman01.dreamhost.com (pdx1-mailman01.dreamhost.com. [64.90.62.202]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id bx13-20020a056a00428d00b0051840478994si759670pfb.375.2022.08.01.19.06.43 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 01 Aug 2022 19:06:43 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: neutral (google.com: 64.90.62.202 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of clinicians-exchange-boun...@lists.clinicians-exchange.org) client-ip=64.90.62.202; Authentication-Results: mx.google.com; dkim=neutral (body hash did not verify) header.i=@gmail.com header.s=20210112 header.b=CNSOtBcq; spf=neutral (google.com: 64.90.62.202 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of clinicians-exchange-boun...@lists.clinicians-exchange.org) smtp.mailfrom=clinicians-exchange-boun...@lists.clinicians-exchange.org Received: from pdx1-mailman01.dreamhost.com (pdx1-mailman01.dreamhost.com [IPv6:::1]) by pdx1-mailman01.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E33B20AD6; Mon, 1 Aug 2022 19:06:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: clinicians-excha...@lists.clinicians-exchange.org Delivered-To: clinicians-exchange-clinicians-exchange@pdx1-mailman01.dreamhost.com Received: from mail-io1-f42.google.com (mail-io1-f42.google.com [209.85.166.42]) by pdx1-mailman01.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F09D9204A4 for ; Mon, 1 Aug 2022 19:06:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-io1-f42.google.com with SMTP id q14so9749920iod
[Mailman-Users] Re: How to Fix Hotmail and Outlook to Allow "Safe Mailing Lists"
All, Directions to posted to website along with graphics of how to do it: https://www.clinicians-exchange.org/fix-hotmail-and-outlook-to-allow-safe-mailing-lists/ *Michael Reeder, LCPC * *Hygeia Counseling Services : Baltimore / Mt. Washington Village location* *410-205-2419 / michael(at)hygeiacounseling.com* *http://www.hygeiacounseling.com - main website. * On 1/14/2021 2:29 AM, Michael Reeder LCPC -- Hygeia Regular wrote: /For your education and possible amusement...// // //I am the list administrator for a GNU Mailman list of about 750 psychotherapists, most of them aged 60- to 80-years-old.// // //These are very, very capable people -- not all of whom are highly computer-savvy.// // //I was recently aghast to discover that not only does Hotmail still exist (!?), but that about 40 of our active members have Hotmail accounts. (!!!???)// // //The following is a fix for how Hotmail users can set up "Safe Mailing Lists" so as to keep your mailing lists from being blocked by Hotmail. I pursued this after checking with Microsoft to make sure my domain was not being entirely blocked as a spammer domain.// // //Just in case you have any Hotmail users...// // / Forwarded Message Dear Hotmail Users: A few weeks ago I wrote asking for feedback as to whether or not you are receiving the Clinicians Exchange email list messages. Some Hotmail users wrote back that they ARE receiving list messages. Some Hotmail users wrote back that they ARE NOT receiving list messages. This has been a perplexing problem. I believe we now have a fix (read on to see what to do). The issue is that Hotmail (and Outlook) have an automatic filter rule that filters out all mailing lists where the mailing list address is not your individual address. So anything addressed to "clinicians-excha...@clinicians-exchange.org" is thrown away since its not addressed to your individual email address (such as "sm...@smith.com" -- even though you are on the list). I believe that Hotmail seems to just discard everything to the "bit bucket in the sky" without an error message and without placing such messages in a Junk or Spam folder for possible retrieval. This is specifically a Hotmail problem and is correctable in a non-obvious way requiring many steps. Here are the steps in written form. I have attached a .pdf document with the steps illustrated by pictures: *Setting Up "Safe Mailing Lists" In Hotmail and Outlook** * STEP #1: From the Inbox of your online Hotmail or Outlook email account, click on the "Settings" wheel in the upper right-hand corner of the page. STEP #2: In the "Settings" dropdown control dialogue box on the right-hand side of the screen, scroll down to the bottom of the list (likely off-screen when you first start) and select "View all Outlook Settings". STEP #3: When the controls for "View all Outlook settings" pop-up in a dialogue box, click on "Junk Mail". STEP #4: When the "Junk Mail" controls dialogue box pops-up, scroll down to the "Safe Mailing Lists" section (which will likely be off-screen until you scroll down). STEP #5: Click on "Add". Enter "clinicians-excha...@lists.clinicians-exchange.org" and press the "Enter" key on your keyboard. Click on "Add" again and enter "clinicians-excha...@clinicians-exchange.org" and press the "Enter" key again. Make sure to click the blue "Save" button at the bottom right of the screen. You are done! Close dialogue boxes and go back to your inbox. Please see attached .pdf for an illustrated version. Some Hotmail users seem to have no problem receiving our list even when these "Safe Mailing List" steps are not implemented. It's weird. Thanks, Michael Reeder Moderator Team PREFERRED: clinicians-exchange-ow...@clinicians-exchange.org PERSONAL: mich...@hygeiacounseling.com *Michael Reeder, LCPC * *Hygeia Counseling Services : Baltimore / Mt. Washington Village location* *410-205-2419 / michael(at)hygeiacounseling.com* *http://www.hygeiacounseling.com - main website. * -- Mailman-Users mailing list -- mailman-users@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-le...@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/ Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/ https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-users@python.org/ -- Mailman-Users mailing list -- mailman-users@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-le...@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/ Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/ https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-users@python.org/
[Mailman-Users] How to Fix Hotmail and Outlook to Allow "Safe Mailing Lists"
/For your education and possible amusement...// // //I am the list administrator for a GNU Mailman list of about 750 psychotherapists, most of them aged 60- to 80-years-old.// // //These are very, very capable people -- not all of whom are highly computer-savvy.// // //I was recently aghast to discover that not only does Hotmail still exist (!?), but that about 40 of our active members have Hotmail accounts. (!!!???)// // //The following is a fix for how Hotmail users can set up "Safe Mailing Lists" so as to keep your mailing lists from being blocked by Hotmail. I pursued this after checking with Microsoft to make sure my domain was not being entirely blocked as a spammer domain.// // //Just in case you have any Hotmail users...// // / Forwarded Message Dear Hotmail Users: A few weeks ago I wrote asking for feedback as to whether or not you are receiving the Clinicians Exchange email list messages. Some Hotmail users wrote back that they ARE receiving list messages. Some Hotmail users wrote back that they ARE NOT receiving list messages. This has been a perplexing problem. I believe we now have a fix (read on to see what to do). The issue is that Hotmail (and Outlook) have an automatic filter rule that filters out all mailing lists where the mailing list address is not your individual address. So anything addressed to "clinicians-excha...@clinicians-exchange.org" is thrown away since its not addressed to your individual email address (such as "sm...@smith.com" -- even though you are on the list). I believe that Hotmail seems to just discard everything to the "bit bucket in the sky" without an error message and without placing such messages in a Junk or Spam folder for possible retrieval. This is specifically a Hotmail problem and is correctable in a non-obvious way requiring many steps. Here are the steps in written form. I have attached a .pdf document with the steps illustrated by pictures: *Setting Up "Safe Mailing Lists" In Hotmail and Outlook** * STEP #1: From the Inbox of your online Hotmail or Outlook email account, click on the "Settings" wheel in the upper right-hand corner of the page. STEP #2: In the "Settings" dropdown control dialogue box on the right-hand side of the screen, scroll down to the bottom of the list (likely off-screen when you first start) and select "View all Outlook Settings". STEP #3: When the controls for "View all Outlook settings" pop-up in a dialogue box, click on "Junk Mail". STEP #4: When the "Junk Mail" controls dialogue box pops-up, scroll down to the "Safe Mailing Lists" section (which will likely be off-screen until you scroll down). STEP #5: Click on "Add". Enter "clinicians-excha...@lists.clinicians-exchange.org" and press the "Enter" key on your keyboard. Click on "Add" again and enter "clinicians-excha...@clinicians-exchange.org" and press the "Enter" key again. Make sure to click the blue "Save" button at the bottom right of the screen. You are done! Close dialogue boxes and go back to your inbox. Please see attached .pdf for an illustrated version. Some Hotmail users seem to have no problem receiving our list even when these "Safe Mailing List" steps are not implemented. It's weird. Thanks, Michael Reeder Moderator Team PREFERRED: clinicians-exchange-ow...@clinicians-exchange.org PERSONAL: mich...@hygeiacounseling.com *Michael Reeder, LCPC * *Hygeia Counseling Services : Baltimore / Mt. Washington Village location* *410-205-2419 / michael(at)hygeiacounseling.com* *http://www.hygeiacounseling.com - main website. * -- Mailman-Users mailing list -- mailman-users@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-le...@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/ Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/ https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-users@python.org/
[Mailman-Users] Re: Removal of Line Breaks in Replies to Digest Messages
Steve, Thank you for this info on use of MIME digests. I hope to keep looking into this and put together a short etiquette and user's guide for interested list members. -- Michael *Michael Reeder, LCPC * *Hygeia Counseling Services : Baltimore / Mt. Washington Village location* *410-205-2419 / michael(at)hygeiacounseling.com* *http://www.hygeiacounseling.com - main website. * On 11/19/2020 1:30 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: Michael, I wrote a long reply, only to discover that Mark had written it first and better and posted it. :-) This part might be of some use if at least some of your users have sufficiently capable clients. Michael Reeder LCPC -- Hygeia Regular writes: > On 11/17/2020 9:21 PM, Michael Reeder LCPC -- Hygeia Regular wrote: > > Mark -- I very much appreciate your answer below. I'll work on the > > (nearly impossible) task of training users to respond to digests > > properly and also explain to people that the Mailman list mgmt > > software can't control formatting screw-ups by email client programs. I don't have a list of capable software off-hand (except that essentially all clients implemented in Emacs are capable -- but you probably don't want to wish that on your users ;-). However, here are some features that help if present: Bursting digests: Also called "exploding" or "expanding". The digest message is broken up into individual messages, and threaded and sorted as usual for the client. Possibly filtered, as well. Useful for people who want to (a) thread the messages in the digest with saved messages in a folder or inbox, or (b) save a few messages and discard the rest. Suboptimal for "scan digest and discard it" workflows. Some clients (Outlook 2011) can do this as a filter, but don't seem to have an option to do it from the inbox summary display. Digest-as-folder: The client treats the digest message as a folder (that's exactly what it is!) and threads and sorts the individual messages in that folder as usual. Optimal for scan-and-discard workflows. Suboptimal if you want to thread messages in the folder against messages outside the folder. Steve -- Mailman-Users mailing list -- mailman-users@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-le...@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/ Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/ https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-users@python.org/ -- Mailman-Users mailing list -- mailman-users@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-le...@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/ Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/ https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-users@python.org/
[Mailman-Users] Re: Removal of Line Breaks in Replies to Digest Messages
Chip, Yup -- I'm going to have to hope that most of my users do not use threaded email displays. I don't think they do. I'll attempt education on only including the message being replied to from plain digests, and replying to specific messages in MIME digests, but yeah -- this will be a hopeless battle. My subscription list consists of about 800 retirement age psychotherapists -- most are just not going to learn this! Thanks, Michael *Michael Reeder, LCPC * *Hygeia Counseling Services : Baltimore / Mt. Washington Village location* *410-205-2419 / michael(at)hygeiacounseling.com* *http://www.hygeiacounseling.com - main website. * On 11/18/2020 12:23 PM, Chip Davis wrote: As regards thread hijacking, there is an IETF 'In-Reply-To:' header <https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc4021#page-10> that keeps track of that, regardless the string in the 'Subject:' header. Without that, creating a threaded email display would be a nightmare. This is one of the most constant (re-)training issues I have to address as a Mailman admin. That, and the necessity of trimming quotes. :-/ -Chip- On 11/18/2020 9:09 AM, Michael Reeder LCPC wrote: Okay, upon reflection I think I figured out what happened here. I replied to an existing thread but deleted the entirety of the message thread and changed the subject entirely. I thought that started a new message thread but perhaps the list software registers that as a reply to an existing thread. I organize my email client by date and not by thread so I would not see this. Apologizes to all if this is the case. On 11/17/2020 9:21 PM, Michael Reeder LCPC -- Hygeia Regular wrote: I agree with not hijacking threads... What hijack? Looks to me like I started a new topic. Right?? -- Mailman-Users mailing list -- mailman-users@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-le...@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/ Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/ https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-users@python.org/ -- Mailman-Users mailing list -- mailman-users@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-le...@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/ Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/ https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-users@python.org/
[Mailman-Users] Re: Removal of Line Breaks in Replies to Digest Messages
Mark,
Okay -- did not know about the "In Reply To" header. Thank you.
"The replacement of quote marks (") and apostrophes (') with question
marks (?) is an issue with the mail client that creates the message. "
-- Got it. Thank you. Looks like there is an issue with some Apple
email clients (iPhone and Outlook for IOS).
"As far as whether the digest formatting is "messed up", I'd need to see
an actual digest message to comment further. "-- Well, that's the
thing. I would send it to you, but when he sent me the "messed up"
digest, it looked absolutely FINE on both my Android phone and in
Thunderbird on Windows 10!!
*I guess my only question at this point would be -- is this common on
Apple products?
*
Thanks,
Michael
*Michael Reeder, LCPC
*
*Hygeia Counseling Services : Baltimore / Mt. Washington Village location*
*410-205-2419 / michael(at)hygeiacounseling.com*
*http://www.hygeiacounseling.com - main website.
*
On 11/18/2020 10:15 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
On 11/17/20 9:21 PM, Michael Reeder LCPC -- Hygeia Regular wrote:
Okay, upon reflection I think I figured out what happened here. I
replied to an existing thread but deleted the entirety of the message
thread and changed the subject entirely. I thought that started a new
message thread but perhaps the list software registers that as a reply
to an existing thread. I organize my email client by date and not by
thread so I would not see this. Apologizes to all if this is the case.
When you reply to a message, your Mail client adds an In-Reply-To:
header in your post even if you change the Subject: and message body. It
is the In-Reply-To header that says this is a reply to a message in the
existing thread.
I'm told by my list subscriber the following:
a. He thinks that the Digest message formatting is messed-up as it
originally comes from the list, but he is not sure (reply messages might
be messing up the formatting).
b. He is using iPhone and Outlook for Apple email clients.
c. He is also experiencing quote marks (") and apostrophes (') being
turned into question marks (?) throughout the text of digest messages.
Is this mess a function of his Apple email clients, or a problem that
rests with the Mailman list management software?
The replacement of quote marks (") and apostrophes (') with question
marks (?) is an issue with the mail client that creates the message. The
issue is they aren't ascii quotes and apostrophes. The quotes are
unicode left and right double quotes and the apostrophes are unicode
right single quotes. These characters are not ascii so they are replaced
by question marks in an ascii plain text digest. They should render OK
in messages in a MIME format digest, but then the pnone client may not
do a reasonable job of rendering a MIME format digest.
As far as whether the digest formatting is "messed up", I'd need to see
an actual digest message to comment further.
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[Mailman-Users] Removal of Line Breaks in Replies to Digest Messages
Okay, upon reflection I think I figured out what happened here. I
replied to an existing thread but deleted the entirety of the
message thread and changed the subject entirely. I thought that
started a new message thread but perhaps the list software registers
that as a reply to an existing thread. I organize my email client
by date and not by thread so I would not see this. Apologizes to
all if this is the case.
I'm told by my list subscriber the following:
a. He thinks that the Digest message formatting is messed-up as it
originally comes from the list, but he is not sure (reply messages
might be messing up the formatting).
b. He is using iPhone and Outlook for Apple email clients.
c. He is also experiencing quote marks (") and apostrophes (') being
turned into question marks (?) throughout the text of digest
messages.
Is this mess a function of his Apple email clients, or a problem
that rests with the Mailman list management software?
Thanks,
Michael
Michael Reeder, LCPC
Hygeia Counseling Services : Baltimore / Mt.
Washington Village location
410-205-2419
/ michael(at)hygeiacounseling.com
http://www.hygeiacounseling.com
- main website.
On 11/17/2020 9:21 PM, Michael Reeder LCPC -- Hygeia Regular
wrote:
Mark
-- I very much appreciate your answer below. I'll work on the
(nearly impossible) task of training users to respond to digests
properly and also explain to people that the Mailman list mgmt
software can't control formatting screw-ups by email client
programs.
I agree with not hijacking threads... What hijack? Looks to me
like I started a new topic. Right??
Thanks,
Michael Reeder
mich...@hygeiacounseling.com
On 11/17/2020 2:32 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
On 11/16/20 10:36 PM, Michael Reeder LCPC
-- Hygeia Regular wrote:
Hello All,
Please don't hijack threads. When you want to post a new topic,
don't do
it by replying to another post, just compose a ney message to
the list.
I am running a listserv which was
recently moved to GNU Mailman 2.1.23
on a Dream Host server (I assume UNIX). I am encountering the
following
problem:
Please see
<https://wiki.list.org/DOC/Mailman%20is%20not%20Listserv>.
Replies to Digest messages (both MIME
and plain text) sometimes have
line breaks stripped from them. We have seen this so far with
both a
version of Microsoft Outlook and an email client program for
an Android
phone. As far as I know, the digest messages themselves
originally all
look fine when sent from the listserv.
Anyone know if there is anything I can do about this?
Use a different mail client that doesn't do this. Otherwse,
there's
nothing you can do to control what users mail clients do.
Bonus Question: I do not have command
prompt access -- only admin panel
access (listserv software is implemented through Dream Host).
Anything I
can do from the admin panel? What would I ask Dream Host to
change?
There is no change to the digests themselves that would mitigate
this
issue without breaking the way the original digests render.
Further, people shouldn't be replying to a digest. For a MIME
format
digest, they should open the individual message and reply to
that. For
the plain digest, they should just copy/paste relevant context
from the
digest into a new post to the list. Of course, training list
members to
do that is probably not possible ...
--
Mailman-Users mailing list -- mailman-users@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/
https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-users@python.org/
[Mailman-Users] Removal of Line Breaks in Replies to Digest Messages
Okay, upon reflection I think I figured out what happened here. I
replied to an existing thread but deleted the entirety of the message
thread and changed the subject entirely. I thought that started a new
message thread but perhaps the list software registers that as a reply
to an existing thread. I organize my email client by date and not by
thread so I would not see this. Apologizes to all if this is the case.
I'm told by my list subscriber the following:
a. He thinks that the Digest message formatting is messed-up as it
originally comes from the list, but he is not sure (reply messages might
be messing up the formatting).
b. He is using iPhone and Outlook for Apple email clients.
c. He is also experiencing quote marks (") and apostrophes (') being
turned into question marks (?) throughout the text of digest messages.
Is this mess a function of his Apple email clients, or a problem that
rests with the Mailman list management software?
Thanks,
Michael
*Michael Reeder, LCPC
*
*Hygeia Counseling Services : Baltimore / Mt. Washington Village location*
*410-205-2419 / michael(at)hygeiacounseling.com*
*http://www.hygeiacounseling.com - main website.
*
On 11/17/2020 9:21 PM, Michael Reeder LCPC -- Hygeia Regular wrote:
Mark -- I very much appreciate your answer below. I'll work on the
(nearly impossible) task of training users to respond to digests
properly and also explain to people that the Mailman list mgmt
software can't control formatting screw-ups by email client programs.
I agree with not hijacking threads... What hijack? Looks to me like
I started a new topic. Right??
Thanks,
Michael Reeder
mich...@hygeiacounseling.com
On 11/17/2020 2:32 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
On 11/16/20 10:36 PM, Michael Reeder LCPC -- Hygeia Regular wrote:
Hello All,
Please don't hijack threads. When you want to post a new topic, don't do
it by replying to another post, just compose a ney message to the list.
I am running a listserv which was recently moved to GNU Mailman 2.1.23
on a Dream Host server (I assume UNIX). I am encountering the
following
problem:
Please see <https://wiki.list.org/DOC/Mailman%20is%20not%20Listserv>.
Replies to Digest messages (both MIME and plain text) sometimes have
line breaks stripped from them. We have seen this so far with both a
version of Microsoft Outlook and an email client program for an Android
phone. As far as I know, the digest messages themselves originally all
look fine when sent from the listserv.
Anyone know if there is anything I can do about this?
Use a different mail client that doesn't do this. Otherwse, there's
nothing you can do to control what users mail clients do.
Bonus Question: I do not have command prompt access -- only admin
panel
access (listserv software is implemented through Dream Host).
Anything I
can do from the admin panel? What would I ask Dream Host to change?
There is no change to the digests themselves that would mitigate this
issue without breaking the way the original digests render.
Further, people shouldn't be replying to a digest. For a MIME format
digest, they should open the individual message and reply to that. For
the plain digest, they should just copy/paste relevant context from the
digest into a new post to the list. Of course, training list members to
do that is probably not possible ...
--
Mailman-Users mailing list -- mailman-users@python.org
To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-le...@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/
https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-users@python.org/
[Mailman-Users] Removal of Line Breaks in Replies to Digest Messages
Hello All, I am running a listserv which was recently moved to GNU Mailman 2.1.23 on a Dream Host server (I assume UNIX). I am encountering the following problem: Replies to Digest messages (both MIME and plain text) sometimes have line breaks stripped from them. We have seen this so far with both a version of Microsoft Outlook and an email client program for an Android phone. As far as I know, the digest messages themselves originally all look fine when sent from the listserv. Anyone know if there is anything I can do about this? Bonus Question: I do not have command prompt access -- only admin panel access (listserv software is implemented through Dream Host). Anything I can do from the admin panel? What would I ask Dream Host to change? Thanks, Michael *Michael Reeder, LCPC * *Hygeia Counseling Services : Baltimore / Mt. Washington Village location* *410-205-2419 / michael(at)hygeiacounseling.com* *http://www.hygeiacounseling.com - main website. * -- Mailman-Users mailing list -- mailman-users@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-le...@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/ Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/ https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-users@python.org/
