Re: [MlMt] Behavior upon clicking notification

[John D. Muccigrosso]

On 9 May 2017, at 10:40, Benny Kjær Nielsen wrote:


On 5 May 2017, at 18:15, John D. Muccigrosso wrote:



On 25 Apr 2017, at 10:39, John D. Muccigrosso wrote:




Bonus: allow for a "Delete" option right from the notification.




Iʻve activated the secret setting for having the notification be 
"delete" instead of "reply", which is great. Is it possible _not_ to 
activate MM upon the click?



I've looked into this and the answer is no, it doesn't seem to be 
possible. The hack I looked into for doing both Delete and Reply 
buttons involved making “dismiss” (Close) into Delete. I think 
that would not activate MailMate which might be why it works in Apple 
Mail. But as previously noted I think it became too much of a hack 
(with potentially unpredictable behavior with OS upgrades).


Frankly, it's a lot less useful if it activates MM, since I then have to 
re-dismiss it. Not having to go to the app is a big part of the point of 
having the notification action, no?


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[MlMt] Cursor placement in replies

[John D. Muccigrosso]

I'm seeing a weird new thing:

Replying to messages with some selected text, the cursor ends up at the 
start of the first line of the signature for one of my signatures, not 
above it as it used to and still does for my other signatures.


The signature is not tied to an account and it has multiple lines, but 
if I shorten it to one line, I still get the behavior.


Plain text composition.

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Re: [MlMt] Behavior upon clicking notification

[John D. Muccigrosso]

On 25 Apr 2017, at 10:39, John D. Muccigrosso wrote:


Bonus: allow for a "Delete" option right from the notification.


Iʻve activated the secret setting for having the notification be 
"delete" instead of "reply", which is great. Is it possible _not_ to 
activate MM upon the click?


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Re: [MlMt] Behavior upon clicking notification

[John D. Muccigrosso]

On 28 Apr 2017, at 7:21, Benny Kjær Nielsen wrote:


Bonus: allow for a "Delete" option right from the notification.

I've actually spent a lot of time trying to make this work like in 
Apple Mail, but I keep running into problems. The public API does not 
support it and the private API certainly does not make it easy. I can 
kind of make it work in 'banner' mode, but then it's very hard to 
dismiss notifications in 'alert' mode. I've given up for now.


I'm a banner guy, so this would be good for me. :-)

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Re: [MlMt] Behavior upon clicking notification

[John D. Muccigrosso]

On 25 Apr 2017, at 12:25, Randall Meadows wrote:


On 25 Apr 2017, at 9:53, John D. Muccigrosso wrote:


On 25 Apr 2017, at 10:53, Verdon Vaillancourt wrote:


John,

If you look at the alert icons in the task bar at the top of your 
display, you should find options to go directly to the message, or 
just delete it, and lots of other options… for individual messages 
or groups of them.


v

On 25 Apr 2017, at 10:39, John D. Muccigrosso wrote:

Currently if you click on a notification about a new message, MM2 
activates, switches to Inbox, and highlights that messages.


I'd prefer it simply activate and open that message. I'm not 
normally in Inbox (I use smart mailboxes a lot), and what I want to 
do is read the message, not see it in a list.


I'm not sure what you mean here.


He's talking about the MailMate menu bar item, which can be enabled 
via Preferences > Counters > "Display: In menu bar".


Ah, I don't have that on.

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Re: [MlMt] Behavior upon clicking notification

[John D. Muccigrosso]

On 25 Apr 2017, at 10:53, Verdon Vaillancourt wrote:


John,

If you look at the alert icons in the task bar at the top of your 
display, you should find options to go directly to the message, or 
just delete it, and lots of other options… for individual messages 
or groups of them.


v

On 25 Apr 2017, at 10:39, John D. Muccigrosso wrote:

Currently if you click on a notification about a new message, MM2 
activates, switches to Inbox, and highlights that messages.


I'd prefer it simply activate and open that message. I'm not normally 
in Inbox (I use smart mailboxes a lot), and what I want to do is read 
the message, not see it in a list.


I'm not sure what you mean here.

I have MM set to show Banners, not Alerts, but what's the alert icon in 
the task bar? (What's the task bar for that matter, the menu bar?)


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Re: [MlMt] Addressee options

[John D. Muccigrosso]

On 25 Apr 2017, at 5:20, Benny Kjær Nielsen wrote:


On 22 Apr 2017, at 16:53, John D. Muccigrosso wrote:

It would be great if clicking on an address of an addressee (in 
whatever field) gave some more options, like copy. I know you can 
double-click it (to turn it into text?), but a single-click option 
would be great.


I've added a couple of “Copy” menu items.


Thanks!

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Re: [MlMt] Editing previous sent addresses

[John D. Muccigrosso]

Kind of relatedly, Mail.app also lets you click on a recipient and see 
the other addresses associated with that one in Contacts. It would be 
great to have this because I often want to switch emails for a given 
recipient.


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Re: [MlMt] Addressee options

[John D. Muccigrosso]

On 22 Apr 2017, at 11:23, Verdon Vaillancourt wrote:


Try a right-click

On 22 Apr 2017, at 10:53, John D. Muccigrosso wrote:

It would be great if clicking on an address of an addressee (in 
whatever field) gave some more options, like copy. I know you can 
double-click it (to turn it into text?), but a single-click option 
would be great.


I did.

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[MlMt] Addressee options

[John D. Muccigrosso]

It would be great if clicking on an address of an addressee (in whatever 
field) gave some more options, like copy. I know you can double-click it 
(to turn it into text?), but a single-click option would be great.


John
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Re: [MlMt] Quoted text weirdness

[John D. Muccigrosso]

I just wanted to check in on this thread again, because I frequently 
reply to messages by highlighting the text I want to show up and then 
hitting reply. MM2 loses the empty lines in between paragraphs, and I 
have to fix them every time.


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Re: [MlMt] Searching

[John D. Muccigrosso]

On 17 Apr 2017, at 1:30, Ralph Alvy wrote:

Before typing your search string, hit ‘/‘. You’ll then be given 
a search box for the current mailbox.


Easier: click in the search field and change the default folder via the 
menu there. I've got mine set to "current folder". Holding down option 
when searching flips it to "all".


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[MlMt] Share

[John D. Muccigrosso]

The MM2 share widget pops up a window asking if I want to open a message 
or cancel. A few questions:


1. How is this an improvement over the built-in Mail share widget? I 
suppose it allows you to use MM and another mail client?


2. No button on the pop-up is a keyboard default, so you have to click 
on it.


3. Most of the time you're going to want to create the message, so "OK" 
should be the default, but more broadly, how is asking here better than 
just opening a new message that can be closed (and thus canceled)? It's 
one action in either case.


So I guess I'd suggest that the pop-up step be eliminated.

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Re: [MlMt] Undo deletion forgets sometimes

[John D. Muccigrosso]

On 5 Mar 2017, at 10:15, Robert Brenstein wrote:

Could the difference be that you deleted that skipped message when 
viewing it in its own window? The undo does not register those 
deletions.


Yes, it well could be that.

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[MlMt] Undo deletion forgets sometimes

[John D. Muccigrosso]

I just tried to undo the deletion of a message, and MM2 undid several of 
them as I kept asking it to, but skipped over the most recent deletion, 
never to get to it.


(And my viewing prefs were just ignored again and I had to hide the 
message view in 3-pane view and hide the sources in the left-side bar.)


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Re: [MlMt] Changed prefs

[John D. Muccigrosso]

On 1 Mar 2017, at 15:58, Shoshanna Green wrote:

Several people, including me, have reported finding that their preview 
window was open to a width of one pixel or so, which meant that it 
*seemed* closed/hidden, because it was too narrow for human eyes to 
see, but messages were being marked read as soon as they were 
selected. I don't know if MailMate occasionally spontaneously opens 
its preview window or if it's user error (hand slips and invisibly 
opens the preview?). It's only happened to me once or twice, but "Make 
sure the preview window is closed. No, really, make SURE" should 
definitely be the first troubleshooting step if someone sees that 
behavior unwanted.


Yes, you've clearly got the cause right.

I'm fairly certain though, that this happens upon opening MM2 after it's 
been quit, so I don't think it's me accidentally hitting some key, 
unless MM reads something from the keyboard (like a command-key press) 
while it's opening, but that seems odd to me.


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Re: [MlMt] Move not copy recipients

[John D. Muccigrosso]

On 16 Feb 2017, at 5:15, Benny Kjær Nielsen wrote:

It looks like dragging _multiple_ recipients does result in a copy and 
not a move in MM 2.0.



I think this is just a side-effect of the hack.


OK, but still on the bug list? :-)

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Re: [MlMt] gnupg2 via Homebrew = MISSING_COMMAND

[John D. Muccigrosso]

On 11 Feb 2017, at 18:39, Vincent Danen wrote:


Ok, did some digging and found this message from almost two years ago:

https://lists.freron.com/mailmate/2015-April/004210.html

This works.  Is this something that could maybe make its way into the 
manual?


Just add it to the manual on github:

https://github.com/mailmate/mailmate_manual

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Re: [MlMt] Move not copy recipients

[John D. Muccigrosso]

On 10 Feb 2017, at 10:12, Benny Kjær Nielsen wrote:

There's no setting for this. “Move” is supposed to be the default. 
Holding down ⌥ or ⌘ should change it to “Copy”. It's a bit of 
a hack though (most things are with relation to the NSTokenField class 
used for email addresses) and I certainly don't rule out that some 
corner cases won't work as expected. Don't put anything into the 
display of the plus sign (some times) shown. It doesn't necessarily 
reflect what happens.


It looks like dragging _multiple_ recipients does result in a copy and 
not a move in MM 2.0.


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Re: [MlMt] Empty line missing before forwarded text

[John D. Muccigrosso]

On 10 Feb 2017, at 9:21, Benny Kjær Nielsen wrote:


On 8 Feb 2017, at 16:06, John D. Muccigrosso wrote:


If I just hit the “forward” button, the resultant message has no 
empty line between the end of my signature and the “Forwarded 
message:” text. It should.



This problem is triggered when the configured signature does not end 
with a newline character. You can add that, but I've also added to 
MailMate (next update) that this is done automatically whenever the 
signature is used.


Thanks! (I’m used to worrying about preceding empty lines for sigs, 
but not following.)


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Re: [MlMt] Move not copy recipients

[John D. Muccigrosso]

On 9 Feb 2017, at 13:16, Verdon Vaillancourt wrote:


me too… command key will make it move, not copy


Huh, how about that. I didn’t even try that since it’s not the usual 
key for modifying commands, though not that I think of it 
command-dragging an item does the opposite of your default behavior 
(copy or move) in the Finder, doesn’t it?


I’m on 2.0beta (6076).

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[MlMt] Move not copy recipients

[John D. Muccigrosso]

It seems that the default behavior when recipients are dragged from one 
field to another (to: to bcc:, for example) is to copy them. I would 
think that a move would be preferred (and that holding down the option 
key would change that to copy).


John
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[MlMt] Empty line missing before forwarded text

[John D. Muccigrosso]

If I just hit the “forward” button, the resultant message has no 
empty line between the end of my signature and the “Forwarded 
message:” text. It should.


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Re: [MlMt] Request: t searches default to sent folder

[John D. Muccigrosso]

On 25 Jan 2017, at 9:15, Robert Brenstein wrote:

I followed the hint from Benny and used the little disclosure triangle 
in the global search box to set the default search mailbox to the 
current mailbox. That popup allows to set a specific mailbox (like 
sent) as well.


Robert

On 24 Jan 2017, at 21:29, Steven M. Bellovin wrote:


I know there's a menu item, but as a keyboard guy I just type 
command-option-control F to bring up a folder-specific search box.  
If the current folder is the Sent folder, it defaults to "To/Cc/Bcc"; 
for anything else, it defaults to "From".  This works well, and I 
almost never use the global search box.


I didn’t know about either one of these, so thanks to both of you.

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Re: [MlMt] Request: t searches default to sent folder

[John D. Muccigrosso]

On 24 Jan 2017, at 14:59, Peter Stevens wrote:

How about defaulting to the folder you are currently in? This makes it 
much more like Thunderbird’s “quick filter”, a feature I really 
miss.


It could be an option, to be sure. Most of the time I’m in smart 
folders designed to minimize what I see (like “Today”), so this is 
not what I would want.


I think Apple Mail.app switches to the sent-mail folder if you search 
for something in the “to” field and back to the inbox, if you search 
for “from”.


Personally I find that most of my searches are to find out what exactly 
I wrote to somebody, so they tend to be in the “t something” form.


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[MlMt] Request: t searches default to sent folder

[John D. Muccigrosso]

When you do a search, the selected folder switches to “All 
Messages.” Almost all the time, I want searches on the recipient to 
look in “Sent Messages,” and I end up switching to that folder.


Does it make sense to have that be the default for such searches, or 
would others not find that to be useful?


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Re: [MlMt] Eudora's mail concatenation in MailMate

[John D. Muccigrosso]

On 12 Jan 2017, at 13:46, Mike Petonic wrote:

No objection from me. I just think that a markdown manual collaborated 
with on GitHub is less collaborative (i.e., someone has to do the 
integrations and approve them) as compared to a Wiki, where they just 
have to be monitored.  I doubt that Benny has that much available time 
to do the integrations, and I think we'd all rather that Benny focus 
on continuing to make MM the best damned MUA for macOS. :-)


On the other hand, if we have volunteers to do the editing from 
submissions, then my concern would go away, and a manual format is 
oftentimes that best format for certain people because of the 
linearity (it's not my desired format, however).


I’m indifferent to the method, but since github already points the 
wiki to the manual, something would have to change.


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Re: [MlMt] Eudora's mail concatenation in MailMate

[John D. Muccigrosso]

On 12 Jan 2017, at 11:50, Mike Petonic wrote:

Perhaps we could use Github's Wiki feature of the 
https://github.com/mailmate/ site.  It doesn't appear that it's 
enabled, or rather, it is enabled but it just redirects us to the 
markdown manual (https://github.com/mailmate/mailmate_manual) again.


We could agree to limit the scope to a best-practices wiki, and thus 
wouldn't have a lot of scope creep.


Not a bad idea, but what’s the objection to putting such a section 
into the manual on github?


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Re: [MlMt] Eudora's mail concatenation in MailMate

[John D. Muccigrosso]

On 11 Jan 2017, at 11:28, Ted Byfield wrote:

A Mailmate tips/tricks resource would very useful to fill the gap 
between the manual (which should be very minimal) and this ~support 
list (which is great but a noisy way to build practical knowledge).


This isn't intended as a criticism of MM at all — on the contrary, 
I'm just thinking about a resource that could help it to grow.


Why can’t the manual have this as part of it?

(BTW, I’ve got a months-old PR on the manual: 
https://github.com/mailmate/mailmate_manual .)


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Re: [MlMt] Extra lines in quoted text

[John D. Muccigrosso]

On 5 Jan 2017, at 11:22, Benny Kjær Nielsen wrote:


On 5 Jan 2017, at 17:11, John D. Muccigrosso wrote:


There are no blank lines in there. There’s a space in the 
“blank” line, sure, but MM2 is generating 3 paragraphs between the 
salutation and the body, not one with a space in it.


It's not like there is a “correct” conversion to plain text. 
Everything that has to do with HTML to text conversion is heuristic in 
some way and HTML generated by Outlook certainly does not make it 
easier. The conversion from HTML to text is not actually done by 
MailMate itself. This is handled by an external script I didn't write 
myself. Note that MailMate does strip the weird occurrences of   
   before doing this, because this often triggers issues.
The first thing to examine though is whether or not the message 
contains a plain text body part. MailMate always prefers this before 
trying to convert HTML to plain text. This is under the assumption 
that the email client generating the HTML probably also knows best 
what the best representation using plain text would be (unfortunately 
this is not always true).
If there's no such plain text part (there really should be, but I'm 
not surprised if there isn't) then the problem is that MailMate 
doesn't properly “clean up” the plain text after the conversion. 
You can forward an example to me using “Message ▸ Forward as 
Attachment” and then I might find time to look into that.

I hope that makes it a bit clearer.


Benny,

I’ll send them along. Both have plain text parts with the following 
header:


Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

The plain text has the correct spacing, though interestingly it 
doesn’t have the non-breaking space in the html.



(And sorry for not yet answering all the other emails to the list.)


Don’t be! You’re very good at replying, IMO.

PS I left the reply as MM2 made it. You’ll notice that the original 
text from me is not double-quoted, even though it should be.


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Re: [MlMt] Extra lines in quoted text

[John D. Muccigrosso]

On 5 Jan 2017, at 11:07, John Cooper wrote:

I can't address MailMate's HTML rendering, but the reply appears to be 
doing the right thing.


Explain why to me again?

Here’s the code again:

John,

I have searched 
through m=


So I see:

one paragraph for “John”
one for the space
one for the body of the message

There are no blank lines in there. There’s a space in the “blank” 
line, sure, but MM2 is generating 3 paragraphs between the salutation 
and the body, not one with a space in it.


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Re: [MlMt] Extra lines in quoted text

[John D. Muccigrosso]

On 5 Jan 2017, at 10:58, John Cooper wrote:

The entire purpose of the   entity is to be explicitly represented as 
white space. Microsoft Word, for whatever reason, has included an 
additional blank paragraph between the salutation and the first 
paragraph of the body. So MailMate appears to be respecting the HTML 
correctly and inserting that paragraph.


So this means “blank paragraph” for Word:



?

In any case, if MM2’s html rendering doesn’t show three paragraphs, 
why should the plaintext reply?


That’s the bug, IMO.

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[MlMt] Extra lines in quoted text

[John D. Muccigrosso]

I’m sure I’ve mentioned this before, but it keeps happening.

I read in HTML if the message has it, but reply in plain text. MM2 will 
sometimes insert extra quoted lines when there’s a blank line in the 
original.


For example, here’s the original html via cmd-option-U:


John,

I have searched 
through m=


The reply text comes out:


John,

 

I have searched through m...


I’m not sure what’s causing the problem. Note that the middle line 
of the three blank quoted lines has two spaces in it after the angle 
bracket, while the other two are empty.


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Re: [MlMt] # messages in a thread

[John D. Muccigrosso]

On 9 Dec 2016, at 9:39, Aaron Falk wrote:

> Ah, too bad.  It was a feature of Mulberry that I quite liked.  Thanks.

Mulberry was awesome. Complicated, but really powerful.

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Re: [MlMt] Viewing text vs HTML part of message

[John D. Muccigrosso]

On 21 Oct 2016, at 11:45, Bill Cole wrote:


On 18 Oct 2016, at 17:21, Charlie Garrison wrote:


Good morning,

A mailing list I subscribe to has changed their mailing list server. 
As a result, *every* message is delivered as both html and text, and 
the html version hurts my eyes. How can I configure a sub-mailbox 
(single mailing list) of smart mailbox to always shows the text mime 
part, in preference to html?


This seems like an excessively complex alternative to the "Prefer 
plain text" checkbox in the Preferences->Viewer pane...


OTOH, a nice little toolbar icon that switched between versions 
wouldn’t be bad.


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Re: [MlMt] Behavior upon deleting an open message

[John D. Muccigrosso]

On 8 Oct 2016, at 23:38, Richard Rettke wrote:

BTW, undo only handles the deletion if you noticed it. The all 
knowing, all seeing are good with that. A mere mortal like myself, not 
so much.


:-)

Yes, if you don’t notice when you delete something it’s a problem. 
Have you considered changing the delete command to something less easy 
to do by mistake? (I also just noticed “Cancel deletion”, but I’m 
not sure what that does.)


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[MlMt] Behavior upon deleting an open message

[John D. Muccigrosso]

I wrote in another thread:

2. If I delete that message while it’s open, no message is left 
selected. I’d rather the next message in the thread get selected. 
I’m a keyboard guy, and while this isn’t a big deal if the message 
I want is the last one in the inbox (just hit the up arrow), it’s a 
pain if it’s not and I have to hit the arrow multiple times or use 
the mouse.


Someone else suggested that the next message be selected and opened, 
which I would not prefer, but having no message be selected after 
deleting an open one is not good, IMO.


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Re: [MlMt] Quoted text weirdness

[John D. Muccigrosso]

On 3 Oct 2016, at 8:13, Benny Kjær Nielsen wrote:


On 28 Sep 2016, at 15:43, John D. Muccigrosso wrote:


Some issues:

1. Often a spurious blank line is inserted at the end of the quoted 
text. (For example if I reply to a plaintext message with a quotation 
in it at the end.)

2. Quoted text will lose internal blank lines.
3. In a non-plaintext message, quoting already quoted text won’t 
work and all the originally quoted text loses its line breaks and 
doesn’t get “double-quoted”.


I could probably come up with some example, but I’m curious whether 
others see this.


This is a general issue. MailMate is not particularly clever when it 
comes to interpreting the selected text when this is used to 
reply/forward an email. It could certainly be better, but it's not 
currently a high priority item.


I hope it becomes one. I reply to messages multiple times a day and get 
caught by this repeatedly.


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Re: [MlMt] Help sending from account

[John D. Muccigrosso]

On 30 Sep 2016, at 10:07, John D. Muccigrosso wrote:

I have an email address that I use frequently, but which is really 
just a forwarding address that I read in my iCloud inbox.


When I try to send a message from that address, MM2 pops up an alert 
saying:



Unexpected return code 550 (expected 250):
“5.7.0 From address is not one of your addresses.”.

Tip: Open the Activity Viewer (⌥⌘0) before retrying. The SMTP log 
file might provide additional information.


The Activity Viewer shows that the error message is coming from my 
me.com (iCloud) account.


How do I get MM2 to stop trying the me.com SMTP server and use another 
one? The address is listed in that other source account as an email 
belonging to me.


(Hoping this will work, btw, with another server that will let the 
mail go through.)


Responding to myself.

Turned out that this works fine once I create a new message. MM2 seems 
to have been stuck on using the me.com account to send the message even 
after I had removed that address from the iCloud list of addresses. When 
I made a new message with the address already moved off that list and 
onto the other server, it worked fine.


John
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[MlMt] Help sending from account

[John D. Muccigrosso]

I have an email address that I use frequently, but which is really just 
a forwarding address that I read in my iCloud inbox.


When I try to send a message from that address, MM2 pops up an alert 
saying:



Unexpected return code 550 (expected 250):
“5.7.0 From address is not one of your addresses.”.

Tip: Open the Activity Viewer (⌥⌘0) before retrying. The SMTP log 
file might provide additional information.


The Activity Viewer shows that the error message is coming from my 
me.com (iCloud) account.


How do I get MM2 to stop trying the me.com SMTP server and use another 
one? The address is listed in that other source account as an email 
belonging to me.


(Hoping this will work, btw, with another server that will let the mail 
go through.)


John
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[MlMt] Quoted text weirdness

[John D. Muccigrosso]

I haven’t quite sussed out all the behavior yet, but there’s 
definitely some weirdness for me in how MM2 handles quoted text in a 
reply.


First, I have “only include selected text” checked. And I only use 
plaintext.


Some issues:

1. Often a spurious blank line is inserted at the end of the quoted 
text. (For example if I reply to a plaintext message with a quotation in 
it at the end.)

2. Quoted text will lose internal blank lines.
3. In a non-plaintext message, quoting already quoted text won’t work 
and all the originally quoted text loses its line breaks and doesn’t 
get “double-quoted”.


I could probably come up with some example, but I’m curious whether 
others see this.




John
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Re: [MlMt] Moving messages

[John D. Muccigrosso]

On 27 Sep 2016, at 9:09, Rob McBroom wrote:


On 26 Sep 2016, at 15:34, John D. Muccigrosso wrote:

When the box pops up to select a mailbox to move the selected message 
into, it takes only one click to make the move. That is, select and 
move are both combined. I keep expecting to have to double click and 
therefore move two messages.


Reasonable people can disagree, but I think it’s supposed to be as 
fast a process as possible, so the current behavior seems fine to me.


Honestly, my first thought was “You can use the mouse on that 
window?” Have you given the keyboard a try there? The search is 
Quicksilver-like so you can get the folder you want very quickly. For 
example, to select “Inbox → Work Account”, you could just type 
“iwac” (or less) then hit ↩.


Fair enough. I do use the keyboard to find the right mailbox, but not to 
activate it.


On the clicking, I can’t think of a similar interface where you click 
once to select & implement something from a box like that (though to be 
honest, that box isn’t very Mac-like at all, is it?).


Speed-wise, a double click is a tiny bit slower than a single one, sure, 
but that box just screams “double-click!” at me and my muscle memory 
takes over. In fact I just did it again while testing even though I know 
how it works! :-)


Another thing: once the move has been effectuated, the box should close. 
It looks to me like if I click on a mailbox, it stays open (not sure 
why), but if I hit return or double-click, it closes.


So, in my book, very odd behavior in several ways.

I assume the other similar interfaces work similarly (like 
go-to-mailbox).


John
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[MlMt] Moving messages

[John D. Muccigrosso]

When the box pops up to select a mailbox to move the selected message 
into, it takes only one click to make the move. That is, select and move 
are both combined. I keep expecting to have to double click and 
therefore move two messages.


I think it really should require a double click. Thatʻs how selections 
in other dialogs work.


John
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Re: [MlMt] Multiple email addresses per user in OS X Contacts and Mailmate

[John D. Muccigrosso]

On 14 Sep 2016, at 9:50, Rob Willett wrote:

The list is dynamic, parents change jobs (and email addresses), 
ISP’s, kids leave, new kids join. At the moment I have an Excel 
spreadsheet which I can cut and paste, but thats not a good solution 
as its a multiple step process. The Contacts app *should* do this but 
somebody at Apple decided to limit group contacts to a single email 
address.


One of the things in MM that makes this more difficult is that, unlike 
in Mail.app, when you click on an address in the to: field, you don’t 
have the option of switching to another of that card’s addresses.


PS If you have to update a list, the Text Expander option isn’t any 
more difficult than a spreadsheet. But Thomas seems to have the right 
idea: Contacts does allow this, even if it’s an ugly interface. :-) 
Not sure you can have two addresses for one person though, but that 
would not be a negative for me. Who wants to get two copies of the same 
thing? :-)


John
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Re: [MlMt] Multiple email addresses per user in OS X Contacts and Mailmate

[John D. Muccigrosso]

On 14 Sep 2016, at 8:01, Annamarie wrote:

Well the way I would manage this is with Text Expander. I'd create a 
snippet with all the email addresses you want and voila! Never have to 
build the list again.


I do this lots with groups of emails.


Great idea if you have Text Expander.

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Re: [MlMt] Outlook users have long lines to read when I send them emails

[John D. Muccigrosso]

On 9 Sep 2016, at 9:48, Mark McCullagh wrote:

Hi, using MailMate for a while but just got a complaint from a friend 
who uses Outlook and says that he has to scroll miles to the right to 
read a whole paragraph I write.


Is there a MailMate setting that will put in hard returns to prevent 
this?


Trying to fix the wrong problem. :-)

John
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Re: [MlMt] Feature Request: BCC warning/intro

[John D. Muccigrosso]

On 8 Sep 2016, at 3:51, Benny Kjær Nielsen wrote:


On 8 Sep 2016, at 1:05, John D. Muccigrosso wrote:

My issue with bcc is that when I “reply” to one in my sent mail, 
the bcc’ed addresses from the original don’t show up. I’d 
prefer they were back in the bcc on the new message.


I believe this was (recently) fixed when I fixed an issue with editing 
drafts with customized Bcc headers. Am I wrong?


Yes. It still doesn’t work for me. Version 2.0BETA (6054)

John
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Re: [MlMt] Feature Request: BCC warning/intro

[John D. Muccigrosso]

On 7 Sep 2016, at 19:11, Randall Meadows wrote:


On 7 Sep 2016, at 17:05, John D. Muccigrosso wrote:

My issue with bcc is that when I “reply” to one in my sent mail, 
the bcc’ed addresses from the original don’t show up. I’d 
prefer they were back in the bcc on the new message.


Then you'd be able to see who was BCC'ed, defeating the entire point 
of BCC.


I can see them. It’s in my sent mail, so I sent it. Have a look at one 
of your own to see.


John
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Re: [MlMt] Feature Request: BCC warning/intro

[John D. Muccigrosso]

My issue with bcc is that when I “reply” to one in my sent mail, the 
bcc’ed addresses from the original don’t show up. I’d prefer they 
were back in the bcc on the new message.


John
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Re: [MlMt] Preview again

[John D. Muccigrosso]

On 7 Sep 2016, at 10:40, Robert Brenstein wrote:

May be this command should refer to showing msg content pane. After 
all, that pane is also shown when no message is selected in the list. 
An alternative could be to define another layout that can be selected 
as an alternative to the three pane layout: a two pane layout. A three 
pane layout without the msg content pane is a three pane layout by 
name only after all.


Yes, I like this 2-pane or 3-pane idea.

John
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Re: [MlMt] Preview again

[John D. Muccigrosso]

On 7 Sep 2016, at 9:59, Benny Kjær Nielsen wrote:

That is the default, but the other posters were discussing the message 
preview in the main window. I don't really consider it a preview 
myself, but that's because I almost never use the standalone message 
window. (I think it all depends on the user's previous email client 
history. I'm not stating that one is better than the other.)


Clearly there is some kind of bug related to saving the state of a 
hidden view. I tried to reproduce that without luck, but I'll give it 
another go. (Let me know if one of you find reproducible steps.)


If that “Show message view” command is related to this, could it get 
changed to “Show message preview”?


John
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Re: [MlMt] Preview again

[John D. Muccigrosso]

On 6 Sep 2016, at 14:39, Richard Rettke wrote:

On 6 Sep 2016, at 11:47, Sherif Soliman   she...@ssoliman.com   
wrote:
Do you mean something different than View > Layout > Hide Message 
View?

Huh? Really confused.  
My View > Layout doesn't have hide or show anything. It only has Show 
Tips and Standard.


You have to have the main window in front, with no message window in 
front of it. The menu changes depending on which kind of window is in 
front.


John
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Re: [MlMt] Preview again

[John D. Muccigrosso]

On 6 Sep 2016, at 12:47, Sherif Soliman wrote:

Do you mean something different than View > Layout > Hide Message 
View?


Is that what that command does? Is “Message View” what MailMate 
calls “Preview”?


If it is, great (though I would rename it).

Oddly, those “hide” commands all stay “hide” even when they 
should say “show”. Thatʻs confusing.


John
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Re: [MlMt] thread-reading behavior

[John D. Muccigrosso]

On 1 Sep 2016, at 14:25, aisrael wrote:


It is the alt (MacOS) key, not the cmd one.


Ah, the option key (which I now see is sometimes labeled Alt). Thanks!

Here’s what happens for me:

1. Option-enter when a thread is highlighted. Beep.
2. Cmd-enter. Also beep.
3. Option-double-click. Top message opens.
4. Cmd-double-click. Top message opens.

So I’m not seeing any of this behavior. Holding down the key stops the 
usual enter-to-open behavior and does nothing when double-clicking.


If you use it on a folder/subfolder/subsubfolder….in the Finder, it 
opens the entire thread also.


I don’t understand this. Option-double-clicking a folder opens the 
folder and closes the containing folder, as it has done for years. 
Command-double-clicking opens the folder in a new tab, which is 
analogous to opening it in a new window (tab/window choice might be a 
pref).



Oh, wait, you mean just option-clicking on the little arrow. Yes, in 
both contexts that reveals the entire tree, but in neither does it open 
the file/message, and that’s what I’m after.


To be clear: what I want to happen is that when I open a selected, but 
collapsed thread by either hitting enter or double-clicking on it, is 
that all the messages in the thread open at once. That could be using 
the current method of having them all be displayed in the same window, 
or in multiple windows. Mail.app does it the former way, with each 
message in its own little enclosed box inside the window. (I like this 
behavior.)



John
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Re: [MlMt] thread-reading behavior

[John D. Muccigrosso]

On 1 Sep 2016, at 14:14, aisrael wrote:

For point 1, you just press Alt at the same time, it opens the entire 
thread (it is a regular McOS command).


I’ll try that out. Thanks. (I assume you mean command there, and not 
option, right?)


PS I’m not sure how it’s a regular OS command.

John
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Re: [MlMt] thread-reading behavior

[John D. Muccigrosso]

On 1 Sep 2016, at 14:11, Billy Youdelman wrote:

2. If I delete that message while it’s open, no message is left 
selected. I’d rather the next message in the thread get selected.


...and opened, regardless if the message list is threaded.  Yes, yes, 
yes - this would be extremely helpful for me.


I wouldn’t want it opened if it weren’t in the same thread, but I 
can see that others might. I think this is a preference in other mail 
apps, “Open next message on delete” vel sim.


I also realize that the two scenarios I described are mutually 
exclusive. That is, if the entire thread opens in one window when I hit 
enter, then there’s no need to select the next message when I delete 
one, since that message is already there in the multi-message window.


John
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[MlMt] thread-reading behavior

[John D. Muccigrosso]

Here’s what I would like to happen when I click on the first message 
in a thread in my inbox, versus what does happen. The view I get in my 
inbox when there is such a thread is of the first message with the 
little sideways arrow next to it, so I can tell it’s got some replies. 
When I click on that message, or hit return while it’s selected:


1. That message alone opens up. I’d rather all the messages in the 
thread open together, just like when opening multiple messages.


2. If I delete that message while it’s open, no message is left 
selected. I’d rather the next message in the thread get selected. 
I’m a keyboard guy, and while this isn’t a big deal if the message I 
want is the last one in the inbox (just hit the up arrow), it’s a pain 
if it’s not and I have to hit the arrow multiple times or use the 
mouse.


John
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[MlMt] Bug: return of the "read" without reading problem

[John D. Muccigrosso]

Just got the new beta, and when I clicked on an unread message in my 
inbox, it got marked unread, even though I don’t keep the preview pane 
open. Looking at the bottom of the window, I saw a kind of grayed out 
line down there where the little holder to open the preview pane should 
be (didn’t take a screen shot, sorry). So I grabbed it and opened up 
the preview, then closed it, which made it look the way it’s supposed 
to (with the little circle for a handle. Now new messages don’t get 
marked read when I click on them.


Strikes me as some kind of bug from the transition to the new version.

John
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Re: [MlMt] 2.0 bug: smart folders keep collapsing

[John D. Muccigrosso]

On 20 Aug 2016, at 1:48, Benny Kjær Nielsen wrote:

The expanded state is likely lost if the mailbox is ever empty (no 
submailboxes). Maybe it's empty when you quit and then when you launch 
new messages have arrived, but the expanded state is still lost. Could 
that explain it?


Yes, that is possibly what happens, but I don’t want it to. :-)

John
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Re: [MlMt] 2.0 feature request: attachment preview at bottom

[John D. Muccigrosso]

On 16 Aug 2016, at 7:35, Benny Kjær Nielsen wrote:


On 15 Aug 2016, at 16:20, John D. Muccigrosso wrote:


On 15 Aug 2016, at 9:35, Robert Brenstein wrote:



When there are attachments and when the preview is visible would be 
better IMHO. An alternative could be to list them in the header, 
like for example the tags.




I never show the preview, so that wouldn’t work for me. They could 
be up top somewhere too. Always visible and obvious is the goal.


This part confuses me a bit. You would like to have attachments 
displayed (or a list of attachments) even if the message itself is not 
displayed? A main window with a message list with a preview of the 
attachments of the currently selected message(s). (In any case, when I 
get around to refactoring how attachments are handled/displayed then 
this would quite likely be possible with a custom layout.)


Sorry. I got confused there. When reading a message, I would like to be 
able to see the attachments all the time, so I don’t have scroll down 
to the bottom to see them, as currently (at least when they’re not 
images).


John
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Re: [MlMt] 2.0 bug: smart folders keep collapsing

[John D. Muccigrosso]

On 16 Aug 2016, at 7:31, Benny Kjær Nielsen wrote:


On 10 Aug 2016, at 16:30, John D. Muccigrosso wrote:

I have a few smart folders that I use for most of my work. They’re 
things like “Today” with mail from the last 24 hours (would 
really like that to be “today’s date”, btw!), and contain as 
subfolders the various inboxes I have. I leave them expanded via the 
little arrow on the left (what’s that called?), but often when I 
start up MM2, they’re collapsed again. Not sure why, but it’s 
pesky.


I think this would only happen if MailMate had crashed between these 
launches (which is kind of on purpose, but I might be changing that). 
This might also explain why you don't see it every time. But let me 
know if you have a reproducible situation.


I don’t think it’s a crash, and I don’t see anything via Console. 
It’s happened right now. “Yesterday” is collapsed. It has one 
message, 0 unread.


John
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Re: [MlMt] 2.0 feature request: attachment preview at bottom

[John D. Muccigrosso]

On 15 Aug 2016, at 9:35, Robert Brenstein wrote:


On 15.08.2016 at 9:08 Uhr -0400 John D. Muccigrosso apparently wrote:


On 14 Aug 2016, at 17:29, Robert Brenstein wrote:





You mean like document icons with filenames below the message body.




That would work, but the key is to have them always visible, so 
perhaps in a pane like the preview. This pane would only appear when 
there were attachments.


John


When there are attachments and when the preview is visible would be 
better IMHO. An alternative could be to list them in the header, like 
for example the tags.


I never show the preview, so that wouldn’t work for me. They could be 
up top somewhere too. Always visible and obvious is the goal.


John
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Re: [MlMt] 2.0 feature request: attachment preview at bottom

[John D. Muccigrosso]

On 14 Aug 2016, at 17:29, Robert Brenstein wrote:


On 14.08.2016 at 10:41 Uhr -0400 John D. Muccigrosso apparently wrote:


On 14 Aug 2016, at 4:58, Benny Kjær Nielsen wrote:

You mean an option to force inlining of all attachments even if they 
are not defined to be inlined by the sender?




No, not inline, just available at the bottom of the window.

John


You mean like document icons with filenames below the message body.


That would work, but the key is to have them always visible, so perhaps 
in a pane like the preview. This pane would only appear when there were 
attachments.


John
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Re: [MlMt] 2.0 feature request: attachment preview at bottom

[John D. Muccigrosso]

On 14 Aug 2016, at 4:58, Benny Kjær Nielsen wrote:


On 10 Aug 2016, at 16:31, John D. Muccigrosso wrote:

When attachments aren’t being shown in-line, it would be great if 
they were always visible at the bottom of the screen, kind of like 
previews are shown in composer windows.


You mean an option to force inlining of all attachments even if they 
are not defined to be inlined by the sender?


No, not inline, just available at the bottom of the window.

John
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Re: [MlMt] toolbar icons!

[John D. Muccigrosso]

On 11 Aug 2016, at 14:23, Jan Erik Moström wrote:

> On 11 Aug 2016, at 16:14, John D. Muccigrosso wrote:
>
>> Yay!
>
> What? Where? The v2 beta release?

Yep.

John
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Re: [MlMt] toolbar icons!

[John D. Muccigrosso]

On 11 Aug 2016, at 11:08, Randall Meadows wrote:

I haven't tried the new version with the "hieroglyphics", but...can 
you still control-click on the toolbar itself, and select how you want 
it displayed, e.g., "Icon and Text", "Icon Only", "Text Only", with 
the new icons?


Yep. Not all the icons are great, I’ll admit, but I prefer them to 
words. YMMV, of course.


John
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[MlMt] toolbar icons!

[John D. Muccigrosso]

Yay!
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[MlMt] 2.0 feature request: attachment preview at bottom

[John D. Muccigrosso]

When attachments aren’t being shown in-line, it would be great if they 
were always visible at the bottom of the screen, kind of like previews 
are shown in composer windows.


John
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[MlMt] 2.0 bug: smart folders keep collapsing

[John D. Muccigrosso]

I have a few smart folders that I use for most of my work. They’re 
things like “Today” with mail from the last 24 hours (would really 
like that to be “today’s date”, btw!), and contain as subfolders 
the various inboxes I have. I leave them expanded via the little arrow 
on the left (what’s that called?), but often when I start up MM2, 
they’re collapsed again. Not sure why, but it’s pesky.


John
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Re: [MlMt] 2.0 bug - opened messages not marked as read

[John D. Muccigrosso]

On 5 Aug 2016, at 16:21, Benny Kjær Nielsen wrote:


On 4 Aug 2016, at 19:01, John D. Muccigrosso wrote:

I was getting messages being marked as read without opening them 
because the Viewer pref “Mark messages as read after X seconds” 
was checked with X=0. (I think that behavior is a bug too, because 
they should only be marked as read after viewing and I have the 
preview pane closed.)


That sounds like a bug, but I'm not able to reproduce it. It indicates 
that MailMate is still displaying the message even though you cannot 
see the preview pane. Could you play around with showing/hiding the 
message preview and see if you can find a pattern to this behavior?


Yeah, I’m not so sure I can figure out a pattern. I just re-checked 
the box so that messages are marked viewed after 0 seconds, and with the 
preview closed, messages are not getting marked as read unless I 
actually open them. IOW, it seems to be working now.


John
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Re: [MlMt] A couple of things about the inbox window(?)

[John D. Muccigrosso]

On 5 Aug 2016, at 11:51, Randall Meadows wrote:


On 5 Aug 2016, at 7:07, John D. Muccigrosso wrote:

First, I’m not sure that’s what it’s called, but I mean the 
main window with the list of messages.


Highlight a message in the list. Do a shift-up/down arrow. The 
message above/below the one you’re on gets added to the selection. 
Perfect. Now cmd-shift-arrow. The same thing happens. What I would 
expect to happen is that the whole set of messages above/below gets 
added to the selection. Mail.app doesn’t do this either, FWIW. I 
guess this is because I expect cmd-arrow to move me to the top or 
bottom of a list of items, which it doesn’t here, just like it 
moves me to the top or bottom of a body of text. (In the Finder, 
cmd-arrow moves you to the enclos-ing/-ed folder.)


Just a SWAG, but when selecting, ⌘ takes on a different meaning, 
typically allowing a disjoint selection.  No idea if that's what going 
on here, but might be an explanation for your expectation.


Yes, when clicking, ⌘ enables discrete selection while shift does 
continuous, but with arrows, shift enables select and ⌘ makes the 
movement go “all the way” in whatever direction you’re going. This 
works with text and I guess my expectation is that it would work here in 
the same way.


John
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[MlMt] 2.0 bug - opened messages not marked as read

[John D. Muccigrosso]

β 6043

I was getting messages being marked as read without opening them because 
the Viewer pref “Mark messages as read after X seconds” was checked 
with X=0. (I think that behavior is a bug too, because they should only 
be marked as read after viewing and I have the preview pane closed.) 
Anyway, now messages don’t seem to be getting marked as read at all, 
even after I open them.


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Re: [MlMt] opening multiple mails

[John D. Muccigrosso]

On 4 Aug 2016, at 12:02, Robert Brenstein wrote:


On 04.08.2016 at 11:10 Uhr -0400 John D. Muccigrosso apparently wrote:



And, just this moment, I did some experimenting:

Try shift-cmd-O instead of just cmd-O and the messages will open in 
different windows.


Haven't found a way to make return open them in different windows 
though.


John


Yes, that is great! I checked only the combination on the message 
menu. Strange that the menu item remains the same with and without the 
shift key, but who cares.


Yes, you’re right, though at least the shift shows up, indicating that 
something different will happen.


Is they a way to have the oldest messages show on top? MM seems to 
insist that newer messages are on top, but 95% of the time, I want to 
read them in the order they went sent.


Ah, you’re right. Hadn’t noticed that.

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Re: [MlMt] opening multiple mails

[John D. Muccigrosso]

On 4 Aug 2016, at 11:05, John D. Muccigrosso wrote:


On 4 Aug 2016, at 10:39, Robert Brenstein wrote:

Is there a trick to open multiple mails in separate viewer windows? 
When I select, let's say 3 emails, and open them, I get a single 
window with all 3 emails concatenated. I want each in its own window. 
I tried various combinations of modifier keys but failed.


I’m ambivalent about this, so maybe a pref would be nice.


And, just this moment, I did some experimenting:

Try shift-cmd-O instead of just cmd-O and the messages will open in 
different windows.


Haven’t found a way to make return open them in different windows 
though.


John
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Re: [MlMt] opening multiple mails

[John D. Muccigrosso]

On 4 Aug 2016, at 10:39, Robert Brenstein wrote:

Is there a trick to open multiple mails in separate viewer windows? 
When I select, let's say 3 emails, and open them, I get a single 
window with all 3 emails concatenated. I want each in its own window. 
I tried various combinations of modifier keys but failed.


I’m ambivalent about this, so maybe a pref would be nice.

OTOH, I definitely would like threads to open up all visible in the same 
window. Right now if the thread is collapsed and I open it up, I only 
see the first message.


John
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Re: [MlMt] composer window placement

[John D. Muccigrosso]

On 3 Aug 2016, at 9:43, Benny Kjær Nielsen wrote:


On 2 Aug 2016, at 1:23, John D. Muccigrosso wrote:

New-message windows in MM2 seem to get placed a little right and 
lower than the previous one, until one gets as far right and down as 
possible and then they stay there. Makes me think they’re going 
off-screen.


But they're not, right?


No, they’re not, but without the space between the window and the edge 
of the screen, at first glance they look like they are. For comparison, 
Mail.app restarts the positioning when there’s still some space left 
between the window and the edge of the screen.


I’d prefer MM2 to remember where I placed one the last time and 
always use that. Or at least restart the placement (as I think 
Mail.app does).


The “cascading” should only happen if you already have a window 
open of the same type, but for you it always happens? (That's a bug 
and it does not appear to be reproducible for me.)


No, it happens with more than one window, but stops happening when the 
window reaches the edge of the screen. For example, Cmd-N opens a new 
window. Repeat for another new one and it’s down and to the right a 
bit. Keep doing that until the window hits the bottom of the screen. Now 
new windows will start moving right, but still all the way at the 
bottom. Finally a window hits the right of the screen and new windows 
just stay there. Same thing with messages I’m reading.


The desired behavior is what Mail.app does: when opening multiple 
windows, move over and right until _close_ to the edge and then the 
corner, and then restart positioning from upper-left somewhere.


Another option would be to open a new message window in the same place 
every time, if there are no other message windows open. Again, this is 
what Mail.app seems to do.



I have also found myself with windows opening in the far bottom-right. 
I’m not sure how to reproduce that right now, but will re-post when I 
get it.


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Re: [MlMt] composer window placement

[John D. Muccigrosso]

Should have added that this happens with messages I’m reading too. 
Same feeling about it.


John
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[MlMt] composer window placement

[John D. Muccigrosso]

New-message windows in MM2 seem to get placed a little right and lower 
than the previous one, until one gets as far right and down as possible 
and then they stay there. Makes me think they’re going off-screen. 
I’d prefer MM2 to remember where I placed one the last time and always 
use that. Or at least restart the placement (as I think Mail.app does).


Thanks.

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Re: [MlMt] Cancel or Delete Send fails

[John D. Muccigrosso]

On 25 Jul 2016, at 13:39, Ralph Alvy wrote:

This wouldn’t handle this situation, where I don’t realize the 
connection is slow until I see the long period the mail is sitting in 
Drafts during the Send process.


On 25 Jul 2016, at 6:28, John D. Muccigrosso wrote:


On 24 Jul 2016, at 12:09, Ralph Alvy wrote:



Here’s where it becomes an issue. I’m in a location where SMTP 
is too slow for the attachment I want to email, but I didn’t 
realize it. Too late. I just hit Send. I’d like to be able stop it 
when I see it taking forever in Drafts, and just send them a Dropbox 
link instead.




A possible solution to such problems is having a default delay on 
sending. (Some other app does this, I think, but I forget which). So 
your messages would go out after X seconds, instead of right away. 
Then you could cancel the send within that time period.


Note that this is different from a scheduled send (which would also 
be nice).


Ah, you said “I just hit send” which made me think it was a matter 
of a few seconds. Even so, the delay could be 5 minutes.


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Re: [MlMt] enhancement, I think

[John D. Muccigrosso]

On 24 Jul 2016, at 11:16, Benny Kjær Nielsen wrote:


On 21 Jul 2016, at 23:14, John D. Muccigrosso wrote:


On 21 Jul 2016, at 6:21, Benny Kjær Nielsen wrote:




On 21 Jul 2016, at 12:05, Alain Israel wrote:



I agree, this is probably one of the only weak points of MM. 
However based on my experience with other applications, this is 
definitively not a trivial issue, and it is certainly dependent on 
the IMAP server.




Why couldn’t MM store smart-mailbox info in iCloud?


The problem is not where to store, but how to synchronize what is 
stored between MailMate installs. Currently MailMate cannot even 
detect changes made to the file storing smart mailboxes. A relaunch is 
needed when editing it manually.


Using iCloud to store is also an unnecessary complication when IMAP is 
already known/configured and available for shared storage (and 
potentially cross-platform although that is not relevant in this 
case).


Yes, but Apple encourages use of iCloud for such things, doesn’t it? 
And it doesn’t involves the manipulation of IMAP for non-mail stuff.


Personally I wouldn’t much mind if it were DropBox instead of iCloud, 
but I think iCloud is a bit more user-friendly and doesn’t require any 
special subscriptions. Many non-savvy users use iCloud already.


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Re: [MlMt] Cancel or Delete Send fails

[John D. Muccigrosso]

On 24 Jul 2016, at 12:09, Ralph Alvy wrote:

Here’s where it becomes an issue. I’m in a location where SMTP is 
too slow for the attachment I want to email, but I didn’t realize 
it. Too late. I just hit Send. I’d like to be able stop it when I 
see it taking forever in Drafts, and just send them a Dropbox link 
instead.


A possible solution to such problems is having a default delay on 
sending. (Some other app does this, I think, but I forget which). So 
your messages would go out after X seconds, instead of right away. Then 
you could cancel the send within that time period.


Note that this is different from a scheduled send (which would also be 
nice).


John
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Re: [MlMt] enhancement, I think

[John D. Muccigrosso]

On 21 Jul 2016, at 6:21, Benny Kjær Nielsen wrote:


On 21 Jul 2016, at 12:05, Alain Israel wrote:

I agree, this is probably one of the only weak points of MM. However 
based on my experience with other applications, this is definitively 
not a trivial issue, and it is certainly dependent on the IMAP 
server.


To be clear, a solution would involve some kind of private 
“message” within an IMAP folder on an IMAP server (as also seen 
with other email clients). This could of course be hidden by MailMate, 
but it would be visible in other email clients -- annoying but 
necessary. There is no standardized way to do these things via IMAP. 
This also means that IMAP server bugs are not likely to be a major 
issue.


Benny, in one of your previous emails, you mentioned that the lack of 
tag syncing (meaning I have to re-tag by hand dozens of emails each 
time I change computer) coudl be somehow debugged. Is this correct?


Certainly, but maybe best done off list. Write me an email via “Help 
▸ Send Feedback” and describe a (short) set of steps needed to 
reproduce the issue. Note that if it's an Exchange server then it's a 
known issue. Exchange does not support custom IMAP keywords.


Why couldn’t MM store smart-mailbox info in iCloud?

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Re: [MlMt] Change font size in new-message headers?

[John D. Muccigrosso]

On 21 Jul 2016, at 4:41, Benny Kjær Nielsen wrote:


On 14 Jul 2016, at 22:53, John D. Muccigrosso wrote:


On 14 Jul 2016, at 16:52, John D. Muccigrosso wrote:

On 14 Jul 2016, at 13:48, Benny Kjær Nielsen wrote:



With “new messages” I assumed you meant the Composer. If that is 
not the case then you can change the font like you do with other 
parts of the GUI (click on the view to focus it and then use 
“Format ▸ Show Fonts”). The size of the headers view is not 
updated until after you change the selected message.




I do mean Composer (I guess). See the screen shot here:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/xb9093jigejnw4l/Screenshot%202016-07-14%2016.48.06.png


I'm afraid the link no longer works (probably because I took too long 
to reply to this email).


My bad. Here’s a new one:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/r8sksrufj9y61fz/Screenshot%202016-07-21%2017.11.51.png

John
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Re: [MlMt] Change font size in new-message headers?

[John D. Muccigrosso]

On 14 Jul 2016, at 16:52, John D. Muccigrosso wrote:

On 14 Jul 2016, at 13:48, Benny Kjær Nielsen wrote:


On 14 Jul 2016, at 18:49, John D. Muccigrosso wrote:


On 14 Jul 2016, at 11:52, Benny Kjær Nielsen wrote:




On 14 Jul 2016, at 16:22, John D. Muccigrosso wrote:



Is it possible to change the font size in the header section of new 
messages (where the to:, subject:, etc appear)?




No, these are standard GUI elements. I believe the best way to 
resize the interface in general is to use the Displays preferences 
pane in System Preferences.




That’s disappointing. I think they’re too small by a point or 
two, but don’t have a problem with the rest of the system settings, 
so I don’t want to change them.


With “new messages” I assumed you meant the Composer. If that is 
not the case then you can change the font like you do with other parts 
of the GUI (click on the view to focus it and then use “Format ▸ 
Show Fonts”). The size of the headers view is not updated until 
after you change the selected message.


I do mean Composer (I guess). See the screen shot here:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/xb9093jigejnw4l/Screenshot%202016-07-14%2016.48.06.png


But which pane is it? I don’t see the relevant info in Displays.


I'm on a Retina machine now which provides a “Scaled” option in 
the Displays preferences pane, but I'm not sure it's the same on 
non-Retina. I cannot test that right now.


Well, I’ve got the option to scale the resolution, but that’s 
definitely not something I want to do.


John
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[MlMt] Change font size in new-message headers?

[John D. Muccigrosso]

Is it possible to change the font size in the header section of new 
messages (where the to:, subject:, etc appear)?


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Re: [MlMt] date condition mismatches

[John D. Muccigrosso]

On 8 Jun 2015, at 17:33, Shoshanna Green wrote:

Today I have another instance of the issue I described a month ago (as 
well as it still persisting in the smart mailbox I created last 
month):


Sorry about the late response.

a message was sent this morning and arrived this morning, June 8, but 
MailMate does not find it in a smart mailbox if the date condition on 
that mailbox is set to “exactly 6/8/2015.” Instead, it finds it if 
the date condition is set to “exactly 6/7/2015.”


Note that “Date” is actually the date relative to the location of 
the sender. For example, the message you sent me has this date:


Date: Mon, 08 Jun 2015 11:33:38 -0400

The received date is the same in this case, but it’s time is 
different (17:33 due to my location), but in theory the date could 
also have been different.


I think you can get what you want if you use “Date-Received” (via 
Other…) instead of “Date”.


(Maybe MailMate should behave differently with respect to the date 
header, but it’s always tricky to get these things right making it 
work well for all use cases.)


Apologies for again resurrecting an old thread, but I wanted to add that 
my assumption was that “date” meant “date received”, which is 
perhaps naive of me. A request for making the “date received” option 
visible by default and next to date.



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Re: [MlMt] Submailbox naming

[John D. Muccigrosso]

On 6 Jul 2016, at 3:51, Philip Paeps wrote:

On 2016-07-05 18:34:57 (+0530), Benny Kjær Nielsen 
 wrote:


It's non-trivial (and a bit hardcoded), but the Unread mailbox shows 
how it can be done:


${#source.path.noinbox} — ${#source.#name}

The first part is the mailbox name, but without INBOX when it's the 
kind of IMAP account in which all mailboxes are children of the 
INBOX. The latter is the name of the account as seen in the IMAP 
account editor.



Note that `${#source.path.noinbox}` only strips the INBOX from 
children of INBOX, it doesn't become the empty string for INBOX 
itself.  That's probably a reasonable implementation but it took me a 
bit of fiddling before I figure out that what I wanted for my setup 
is:


${#source-name:/downcase} ${#source.path.noinbox/INBOX//}

This piece of wisdom may be helpful to others with a similar setup to 
mine (and similar OCD). :)


So it looks like we’ve got some good examples out there. I wonder if 
we could get a good working set for better documentation and what the 
best way to do that would be. I’m happy to fork the manual on github. 
Would others be able to do that, or perhaps just email to me?


John
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Re: [MlMt] new mail notification sound

[John D. Muccigrosso]

On Thu, 19 Apr 2012, Benny Kj?r Nielsen wrote:


On 19 Apr 2012, at 0:38, Baron Fujimoto wrote:

As far as I can tell, MailMate should not configured to play any 
sounds
when new mail arrives, yet whenever a new message arrives in the 
INBOX
folder of my source, the "glass" sound plays.  The only place I 
could find

that seemed relevant was Preference > Counters > Sound. Am I missing
correct place to turn this off somewhere?


Not really. You are just the victim of bad user interface design.

MailMate allows you to configure 4 counters, one for each corner of 
the dock icon. This is what is illustrated by the four dots in the 
left side of the Counters preferences pane. You simply need to find 
the counter with the ?Glass? sound and then change it to ?None?.


Originally, the Counters interface was a quick temporary solution. I 
still plan to change how this works, but it is not yet a high 
priority. I'll see if I can change the wording used below the dots to 
be less ambiguous.


Ah, I see how it works now.  I had assumed the settings in the right 
side

of that preferences panel were independent of the positioning settings
on the left side.  I see now that they are per position setting.  I've
found the elusive "glass" notification and disabled it.


Wow, I just realized how completely I was misunderstanding this 
preference. Thanks for this (very old) thread!


Note that MailMate also has a slot in the System pref pane 
“Notifications”, which seems to be ignored. That’s where I first 
went to turn the sound off.


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Re: [MlMt] Submailbox naming

[John D. Muccigrosso]

On 5 Jul 2016, at 9:04, Benny Kjær Nielsen wrote:


On 3 Jul 2016, at 19:17, John D. Muccigrosso wrote:



I’m trying to name sub mailboxes to a smart mailbox by the account 
name. The default os source.path results in several with the same 
name “INBOX”, which of course isn’t very helpful.


What’s the magic word to use here (if there is one)?





It's non-trivial (and a bit hardcoded), but the Unread mailbox shows 
how it can be done:


${#source.path.noinbox} — ${#source.#name}


The first part is the mailbox name, but without INBOX when it's the 
kind of IMAP account in which all mailboxes are children of the INBOX. 
The latter is the name of the account as seen in the IMAP account 
editor.


Perfect. I just used the last bit, since I’m already only looking at 
inboxes.


Is there a list of things that work with a leading #? And I think this 
is a good thing to add to the docs, which I might get to sometime soon 
on github. :-)


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Re: [MlMt] Submailbox naming

[John D. Muccigrosso]

On 4 Jul 2016, at 10:14, John D. Muccigrosso wrote:

That's the default I was talking about. I'm trying to get the account 
name, not the mailbox title. So "gmail" instead of INBOX, for example.


John Muccigrosso


On Jul 3, 2016, at 16:51, Mike Brasch <mikebra...@fastmail.fm> wrote:

On 3 Jul 2016, at 19:17, John D. Muccigrosso wrote:

I’m trying to name sub mailboxes to a smart mailbox by the account 
name. The default os source.path results in several with the same 
name “INBOX”, which of course isn’t very helpful.


What’s the magic word to use here (if there is one)?


Source > Path > Noinbox


Playing around a bit with this and I tried using the options from the 
“for each unique value of” drop-down menu. Still not getting me the 
“Description” for each account, but at least I can tell which is 
which. Here’s what I’m currently using:


${#source.server.user/%40/@/}

which pulls the user name and returns the @ to its original form instead 
of the encoded %40 that gets reported originally. I’ve also got that 
dropdown set to “Source > Server” which for me results in one 
sub-mailbox for each account I have.


Another one I was playing with pulls the server address parts:

${#source.server.domain.second-level}.${#source.server.domain.top-level}

to yield something like “gmail.com”, but since I have two gmail 
accounts, that wasn’t specific enough.


Again, I’d prefer to show the same Description that gets pulled from 
my Internet Accounts System pref pane.


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[MlMt] Smart mailbox for "today", etc.

[John D. Muccigrosso]

I like to have “date is today” instead of “within last day”. 
Ditto for “yesterday”. It’s nice to have last week or month too, 
but I can live with the slight variation in the window on those when the 
window doesn’t quite start at midnight. For “today” though, I 
really want “today” and not the last 24 hours.


I see there are several old requests on the mailing list for this (2013 
and 2014), but I wanted to put in another request for it.


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Re: [MlMt] Submailbox naming

[John D. Muccigrosso]

That's the default I was talking about. I'm trying to get the account 
name, not the mailbox title. So "gmail" instead of INBOX, for example.


John Muccigrosso


On Jul 3, 2016, at 16:51, Mike Brasch <mikebra...@fastmail.fm> wrote:

On 3 Jul 2016, at 19:17, John D. Muccigrosso wrote:

I’m trying to name sub mailboxes to a smart mailbox by the account 
name. The default os source.path results in several with the same 
name “INBOX”, which of course isn’t very helpful.


What’s the magic word to use here (if there is one)?


Source > Path > Noinbox

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[MlMt] Submailbox naming

[John D. Muccigrosso]

I’m trying to name sub mailboxes to a smart mailbox by the account 
name. The default os source.path results in several with the same name 
“INBOX”, which of course isn’t very helpful.


What’s the magic word to use here (if there is one)?

TIA.

John
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