Re: [mailop] gmail putting most messages into Spam

[Bill Cole via mailop]

On 2023-01-18 at 00:16:53 UTC-0500 (Wed, 18 Jan 2023 00:16:53 -0500)
John Covici via mailop 
is rumored to have said:


hmmm, I have one for covici.com -- does this not cover the subdomain?


No.


I don't even think my registrar can have an spf for a subdomain.


That would be remarkably weak on their part. SPF is just a DNS TXT 
record that starts with 'v=spf1' and you can have one for any name in 
DNS. You have MX records for ccs.covici.com, so surely you can add a TXT 
record for is.




On Tue, 17 Jan 2023 21:08:18 -0500,
Jarland Donnell via mailop wrote:


One very obvious one I hit right away. You seem to be sending
from @ccs.covici.com, and it has no SPF record:
https://www.whatsmydns.net/#TXT/ccs.covici.com

A good, solid SPF record is a bare minimum these days. Google is
requiring it more than ever, and while the message they're giving
you isn't the one I'm used to seeing for that, every negative
point about the email you send is a mark against you which means
every aspect you can improve on is relevant.

On 2023-01-17 18:03, John Covici via mailop wrote:

OK, well, now I can't send even to a single gmail address.  What is
mail-tester.com  --I have never used it?  Is it a website?


On Tue, 17 Jan 2023 18:20:09 -0500,
Jarland Donnell via mailop wrote:


On 2023-01-17 17:06, John Covici via mailop wrote:

Still broke for me.


I believe your issue was different from the one in this thread
and best summarized by your message in that separate thread:

On 2023-01-17 10:31, John Covici via mailop wrote:
Hi.   For some reason this morning, I am having problems sending 
to

gmail addresses.  I get the following error for each:

<<< 550-5.7.1 [166.84.7.93  12] Our system has detected that 
this

message is
<<< 550-5.7.1 likely unsolicited mail. To reduce the amount of 
spam

sent to Gmail,
<<< 550-5.7.1 this message has been blocked. Please visit
<<< 550-5.7.1
https://support.google.com/mail/?p=UnsolicitedMessageError
 Now I have had no problems sending to gmail, but this message was
 send to maybe 40 users or so -- is this my problem, or am I doing
 something else wrong?

Thanks in advance for any suggestions.


It's arguable which is worse, but this is definitely different
than spam folder delivery. I would argue your situation is better
because I'd rather know it wasn't delivered than tell someone to
check their spam folder, because people just don't and you have
little clear insight into the fact that they absolutely need to
look there. That said, I just performed a log audit and I do not
see a recent increase in these error messages from our side. I'm
not Google, obviously, but we process enough email that I feel
like polling my logs can easily indicate a trend of lack thereof.

My first instinct in your position would be to use something like
mail-tester.com to get a basic check over your headers, DNS,
etc. I know it's not wildly popular on this list but in a world
where the average user still runs to mxtoolbox, mail-tester.com
is exponentially better in it's assessments.
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--
Your life is like a penny.  You're going to lose it.  The question is:
How do
you spend it?

 John Covici wb2una
 cov...@ccs.covici.com
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--
Bill Cole
b...@scconsult.com or billc...@apache.org
(AKA @grumpybozo and many *@billmail.scconsult.com addresses)
Not Currently Available For Hire
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Re: [mailop] gmail putting most messages into Spam

[John Covici via mailop]

hmmm, I have one for covici.com -- does this not cover the subdomain?
I don't even think my registrar can have an spf for a subdomain.

On Tue, 17 Jan 2023 21:08:18 -0500,
Jarland Donnell via mailop wrote:
> 
> One very obvious one I hit right away. You seem to be sending
> from @ccs.covici.com, and it has no SPF record:
> https://www.whatsmydns.net/#TXT/ccs.covici.com
> 
> A good, solid SPF record is a bare minimum these days. Google is
> requiring it more than ever, and while the message they're giving
> you isn't the one I'm used to seeing for that, every negative
> point about the email you send is a mark against you which means
> every aspect you can improve on is relevant.
> 
> On 2023-01-17 18:03, John Covici via mailop wrote:
> > OK, well, now I can't send even to a single gmail address.  What is
> > mail-tester.com  --I have never used it?  Is it a website?
> > 
> > 
> > On Tue, 17 Jan 2023 18:20:09 -0500,
> > Jarland Donnell via mailop wrote:
> >> 
> >> On 2023-01-17 17:06, John Covici via mailop wrote:
> >> > Still broke for me.
> >> 
> >> I believe your issue was different from the one in this thread
> >> and best summarized by your message in that separate thread:
> >> 
> >> On 2023-01-17 10:31, John Covici via mailop wrote:
> >> > Hi.   For some reason this morning, I am having problems sending to
> >> > gmail addresses.  I get the following error for each:
> >> >
> >> > <<< 550-5.7.1 [166.84.7.93  12] Our system has detected that this
> >> > message is
> >> > <<< 550-5.7.1 likely unsolicited mail. To reduce the amount of spam
> >> > sent to Gmail,
> >> > <<< 550-5.7.1 this message has been blocked. Please visit
> >> > <<< 550-5.7.1
> >> > https://support.google.com/mail/?p=UnsolicitedMessageError
> >> >  Now I have had no problems sending to gmail, but this message was
> >> >  send to maybe 40 users or so -- is this my problem, or am I doing
> >> >  something else wrong?
> >> >
> >> > Thanks in advance for any suggestions.
> >> 
> >> It's arguable which is worse, but this is definitely different
> >> than spam folder delivery. I would argue your situation is better
> >> because I'd rather know it wasn't delivered than tell someone to
> >> check their spam folder, because people just don't and you have
> >> little clear insight into the fact that they absolutely need to
> >> look there. That said, I just performed a log audit and I do not
> >> see a recent increase in these error messages from our side. I'm
> >> not Google, obviously, but we process enough email that I feel
> >> like polling my logs can easily indicate a trend of lack thereof.
> >> 
> >> My first instinct in your position would be to use something like
> >> mail-tester.com to get a basic check over your headers, DNS,
> >> etc. I know it's not wildly popular on this list but in a world
> >> where the average user still runs to mxtoolbox, mail-tester.com
> >> is exponentially better in it's assessments.
> >> ___
> >> mailop mailing list
> >> mailop@mailop.org
> >> https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop
> >> 
> ___
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> https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop
> 

-- 
Your life is like a penny.  You're going to lose it.  The question is:
How do
you spend it?

 John Covici wb2una
 cov...@ccs.covici.com
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Re: [mailop] gmail putting most messages into Spam

[Carsten Schiefner via mailop]

Thanks,  Jarland - excellent pointer!

-Original Message-
From: Jarland Donnell via mailop 
To: Mailop 
Sent: Mi., 18 Jan. 2023 0:31
Subject: Re: [mailop] gmail putting most messages into Spam

[...]

My first instinct in your position would be to use something like 
mail-tester.com to get a basic check over your headers, DNS, etc. I know 
it's not wildly popular on this list but in a world where the average 
user still runs to mxtoolbox, mail-tester.com is exponentially better in 
it's assessments.
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Re: [mailop] Using cloud hosts for MX (not SMTP)

[Jarland Donnell via mailop]

Though it's possible that you may see this more with governments and 
such, I've not noticed that anyone significant blocks their own traffic 
outbound to OVH, except for a couple of military contractors (which 
isn't my definition of significant to any average person). If they block 
anything it's usually blocking their own inbound email which came from 
an OVH IP, rather than their own outbound email headed toward an OVH IP.


On 2023-01-17 20:34, Alberto Abrao via mailop wrote:

Hello,

first message to this list. I have been lurking for a while, and I 
learned a lot here. Thank you.


I operate a personal e-mail server, and, as soon as I started 
self-hosting, I requested a static IP from my ISP, moving records as I 
changed to a different provider.


During the move, I was relying on the "retry" period of the SMTP 
protocol, which worked just fine.


Still, it generates an error message to the sender. I was looking to 
"split" my server, having the MX (inbound) at a cloud provider (OVH), 
and keeping outbound SMTP on the IP provided by my ISP.


I see many posts saying that e-mails from cloud providers such as OVH 
are blocked outright by many. That had me wondering if it's a good idea 
to proceed with this plan, as I may not be able to receive messages 
from senders under these operators.


That'd assume the block is inbound and outbound, instead of 
inbound-only. Is that the case?


One more thing, would a set up like this interfere with my "score", so 
to speak?



Once again, thank you.

Kind regards,
Alberto Abrao

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[mailop] Using cloud hosts for MX (not SMTP)

[Alberto Abrao via mailop]

Hello,

first message to this list. I have been lurking for a while, and I 
learned a lot here. Thank you.


I operate a personal e-mail server, and, as soon as I started 
self-hosting, I requested a static IP from my ISP, moving records as I 
changed to a different provider.


During the move, I was relying on the "retry" period of the SMTP 
protocol, which worked just fine.


Still, it generates an error message to the sender. I was looking to 
"split" my server, having the MX (inbound) at a cloud provider (OVH), 
and keeping outbound SMTP on the IP provided by my ISP.


I see many posts saying that e-mails from cloud providers such as OVH 
are blocked outright by many. That had me wondering if it's a good idea 
to proceed with this plan, as I may not be able to receive messages from 
senders under these operators.


That'd assume the block is inbound and outbound, instead of 
inbound-only. Is that the case?


One more thing, would a set up like this interfere with my "score", so 
to speak?



Once again, thank you.

Kind regards,
Alberto Abrao

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Re: [mailop] gmail putting most messages into Spam

[Jarland Donnell via mailop]

One very obvious one I hit right away. You seem to be sending from 
@ccs.covici.com, and it has no SPF record: 
https://www.whatsmydns.net/#TXT/ccs.covici.com


A good, solid SPF record is a bare minimum these days. Google is 
requiring it more than ever, and while the message they're giving you 
isn't the one I'm used to seeing for that, every negative point about 
the email you send is a mark against you which means every aspect you 
can improve on is relevant.


On 2023-01-17 18:03, John Covici via mailop wrote:

OK, well, now I can't send even to a single gmail address.  What is
mail-tester.com  --I have never used it?  Is it a website?


On Tue, 17 Jan 2023 18:20:09 -0500,
Jarland Donnell via mailop wrote:


On 2023-01-17 17:06, John Covici via mailop wrote:
> Still broke for me.

I believe your issue was different from the one in this thread
and best summarized by your message in that separate thread:

On 2023-01-17 10:31, John Covici via mailop wrote:
> Hi.   For some reason this morning, I am having problems sending to
> gmail addresses.  I get the following error for each:
>
> <<< 550-5.7.1 [166.84.7.93  12] Our system has detected that this
> message is
> <<< 550-5.7.1 likely unsolicited mail. To reduce the amount of spam
> sent to Gmail,
> <<< 550-5.7.1 this message has been blocked. Please visit
> <<< 550-5.7.1
> https://support.google.com/mail/?p=UnsolicitedMessageError
>  Now I have had no problems sending to gmail, but this message was
>  send to maybe 40 users or so -- is this my problem, or am I doing
>  something else wrong?
>
> Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

It's arguable which is worse, but this is definitely different
than spam folder delivery. I would argue your situation is better
because I'd rather know it wasn't delivered than tell someone to
check their spam folder, because people just don't and you have
little clear insight into the fact that they absolutely need to
look there. That said, I just performed a log audit and I do not
see a recent increase in these error messages from our side. I'm
not Google, obviously, but we process enough email that I feel
like polling my logs can easily indicate a trend of lack thereof.

My first instinct in your position would be to use something like
mail-tester.com to get a basic check over your headers, DNS,
etc. I know it's not wildly popular on this list but in a world
where the average user still runs to mxtoolbox, mail-tester.com
is exponentially better in it's assessments.
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Re: [mailop] gmail putting most messages into Spam

[Jarland Donnell via mailop]

You visit mail-tester.com, copy the email address, send an email to it, 
and then wait about 15-30 seconds and click the button. It'll give you 
an overview. It's not perfect, but if your email has some very 
significant, avoidable problems it's an easy way to identify a few 
common ones.


On 2023-01-17 18:03, John Covici via mailop wrote:

OK, well, now I can't send even to a single gmail address.  What is
mail-tester.com  --I have never used it?  Is it a website?


On Tue, 17 Jan 2023 18:20:09 -0500,
Jarland Donnell via mailop wrote:


On 2023-01-17 17:06, John Covici via mailop wrote:
> Still broke for me.

I believe your issue was different from the one in this thread
and best summarized by your message in that separate thread:

On 2023-01-17 10:31, John Covici via mailop wrote:
> Hi.   For some reason this morning, I am having problems sending to
> gmail addresses.  I get the following error for each:
>
> <<< 550-5.7.1 [166.84.7.93  12] Our system has detected that this
> message is
> <<< 550-5.7.1 likely unsolicited mail. To reduce the amount of spam
> sent to Gmail,
> <<< 550-5.7.1 this message has been blocked. Please visit
> <<< 550-5.7.1
> https://support.google.com/mail/?p=UnsolicitedMessageError
>  Now I have had no problems sending to gmail, but this message was
>  send to maybe 40 users or so -- is this my problem, or am I doing
>  something else wrong?
>
> Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

It's arguable which is worse, but this is definitely different
than spam folder delivery. I would argue your situation is better
because I'd rather know it wasn't delivered than tell someone to
check their spam folder, because people just don't and you have
little clear insight into the fact that they absolutely need to
look there. That said, I just performed a log audit and I do not
see a recent increase in these error messages from our side. I'm
not Google, obviously, but we process enough email that I feel
like polling my logs can easily indicate a trend of lack thereof.

My first instinct in your position would be to use something like
mail-tester.com to get a basic check over your headers, DNS,
etc. I know it's not wildly popular on this list but in a world
where the average user still runs to mxtoolbox, mail-tester.com
is exponentially better in it's assessments.
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Re: [mailop] gmail putting most messages into Spam

[John Covici via mailop]

OK, well, now I can't send even to a single gmail address.  What is
mail-tester.com  --I have never used it?  Is it a website?


On Tue, 17 Jan 2023 18:20:09 -0500,
Jarland Donnell via mailop wrote:
> 
> On 2023-01-17 17:06, John Covici via mailop wrote:
> > Still broke for me.
> 
> I believe your issue was different from the one in this thread
> and best summarized by your message in that separate thread:
> 
> On 2023-01-17 10:31, John Covici via mailop wrote:
> > Hi.   For some reason this morning, I am having problems sending to
> > gmail addresses.  I get the following error for each:
> > 
> > <<< 550-5.7.1 [166.84.7.93  12] Our system has detected that this
> > message is
> > <<< 550-5.7.1 likely unsolicited mail. To reduce the amount of spam
> > sent to Gmail,
> > <<< 550-5.7.1 this message has been blocked. Please visit
> > <<< 550-5.7.1
> > https://support.google.com/mail/?p=UnsolicitedMessageError
> >  Now I have had no problems sending to gmail, but this message was
> >  send to maybe 40 users or so -- is this my problem, or am I doing
> >  something else wrong?
> > 
> > Thanks in advance for any suggestions.
> 
> It's arguable which is worse, but this is definitely different
> than spam folder delivery. I would argue your situation is better
> because I'd rather know it wasn't delivered than tell someone to
> check their spam folder, because people just don't and you have
> little clear insight into the fact that they absolutely need to
> look there. That said, I just performed a log audit and I do not
> see a recent increase in these error messages from our side. I'm
> not Google, obviously, but we process enough email that I feel
> like polling my logs can easily indicate a trend of lack thereof.
> 
> My first instinct in your position would be to use something like
> mail-tester.com to get a basic check over your headers, DNS,
> etc. I know it's not wildly popular on this list but in a world
> where the average user still runs to mxtoolbox, mail-tester.com
> is exponentially better in it's assessments.
> ___
> mailop mailing list
> mailop@mailop.org
> https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop
> 

-- 
Your life is like a penny.  You're going to lose it.  The question is:
How do
you spend it?

 John Covici wb2una
 cov...@ccs.covici.com
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[mailop] Anyone from Cogeco (ca) that can reach out to me offlist?

[Michael Peddemors via mailop]

Just looking at some strange behavior reported from the spam auditing 
team, and trying to see how legitimate it is..


Thanks..

--
"Catch the Magic of Linux..."

Michael Peddemors, President/CEO LinuxMagic Inc.
Visit us at http://www.linuxmagic.com @linuxmagic
A Wizard IT Company - For More Info http://www.wizard.ca
"LinuxMagic" a Registered TradeMark of Wizard Tower TechnoServices Ltd.

604-682-0300 Beautiful British Columbia, Canada

This email and any electronic data contained are confidential and intended
solely for the use of the individual or entity to which they are addressed.
Please note that any views or opinions presented in this email are solely
those of the author and are not intended to represent those of the company.
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Re: [mailop] gmail putting most messages into Spam

[Jarland Donnell via mailop]

On 2023-01-17 17:06, John Covici via mailop wrote:

Still broke for me.


I believe your issue was different from the one in this thread and best 
summarized by your message in that separate thread:


On 2023-01-17 10:31, John Covici via mailop wrote:

Hi.   For some reason this morning, I am having problems sending to
gmail addresses.  I get the following error for each:

<<< 550-5.7.1 [166.84.7.93  12] Our system has detected that this
message is
<<< 550-5.7.1 likely unsolicited mail. To reduce the amount of spam
sent to Gmail,
<<< 550-5.7.1 this message has been blocked. Please visit
<<< 550-5.7.1
https://support.google.com/mail/?p=UnsolicitedMessageError
 Now I have had no problems sending to gmail, but this message was
 send to maybe 40 users or so -- is this my problem, or am I doing
 something else wrong?

Thanks in advance for any suggestions.


It's arguable which is worse, but this is definitely different than spam 
folder delivery. I would argue your situation is better because I'd 
rather know it wasn't delivered than tell someone to check their spam 
folder, because people just don't and you have little clear insight into 
the fact that they absolutely need to look there. That said, I just 
performed a log audit and I do not see a recent increase in these error 
messages from our side. I'm not Google, obviously, but we process enough 
email that I feel like polling my logs can easily indicate a trend of 
lack thereof.


My first instinct in your position would be to use something like 
mail-tester.com to get a basic check over your headers, DNS, etc. I know 
it's not wildly popular on this list but in a world where the average 
user still runs to mxtoolbox, mail-tester.com is exponentially better in 
it's assessments.

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Re: [mailop] gmail putting most messages into Spam

[John Covici via mailop]

Still broke for me.

On Tue, 17 Jan 2023 17:22:02 -0500,
Jarland Donnell via mailop wrote:
> 
> Just a +1 report for the sake of data. The only legitimate emails
> I have in my spam folder at Gmail are from Inno Supps and
> healthcare.gov. Inno Supps I get because of their products and,
> therefore, their language is quite similar to standard spam
> campaigns. Healthcare.gov I get because, legitimate as they may
> be, they sure are spammy little shits.
> 
> I have not seen an increase in customer complaints about emails
> landing in Gmail folders. If anything, compared to the growth
> over the last holiday season, the complaints are fewer and
> farther between relative to the number of customers we have.
> 
> I can absolutely say without question though that I have
> repeatedly witnessed since 2011 (when my work in the field began)
> users who found benefit in purchasing new domains to increase
> their chances of landing in inboxes. EIther because of a past
> history of intentional abuse (being sorry doesn't fix filters),
> their domains using TLDs that were inherently more highly
> associated with abuse (Why does .monster even exist if not for
> spam?), or their domains used keywords that were very common in
> spam like "health" or "healthcare" (huge increase in the years
> following ACA passage in the US).
> 
> On 2023-01-17 07:16, Paul Gregg via mailop wrote:
> > Heads up in case anyone else is experiencing this.
> > 
> > We are aware of a recent change in behaviour of gmail.com where
> > most email is placed directly into Spam folder.
> > 
> > So far we have dozens of customers reporting this.
> > Tested myself with full SPF, DKIM and DMARC with p=reject - which gmail
> > itself marks as passing all tests. The mail was also delivered
> > over TLS.
> > Mails go to Spam.
> > 
> > We're trying to reach out to google, but so far have no response.
> > 
> > We don't think it is just 'us', as reddit r/msp has others reporting
> > same from O365 direct to gmail.
> > 
> > PG
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> 

-- 
Your life is like a penny.  You're going to lose it.  The question is:
How do
you spend it?

 John Covici wb2una
 cov...@ccs.covici.com
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Re: [mailop] gmail putting most messages into Spam

[Jarland Donnell via mailop]

Just a +1 report for the sake of data. The only legitimate emails I have 
in my spam folder at Gmail are from Inno Supps and healthcare.gov. Inno 
Supps I get because of their products and, therefore, their language is 
quite similar to standard spam campaigns. Healthcare.gov I get because, 
legitimate as they may be, they sure are spammy little shits.


I have not seen an increase in customer complaints about emails landing 
in Gmail folders. If anything, compared to the growth over the last 
holiday season, the complaints are fewer and farther between relative to 
the number of customers we have.


I can absolutely say without question though that I have repeatedly 
witnessed since 2011 (when my work in the field began) users who found 
benefit in purchasing new domains to increase their chances of landing 
in inboxes. EIther because of a past history of intentional abuse (being 
sorry doesn't fix filters), their domains using TLDs that were 
inherently more highly associated with abuse (Why does .monster even 
exist if not for spam?), or their domains used keywords that were very 
common in spam like "health" or "healthcare" (huge increase in the years 
following ACA passage in the US).


On 2023-01-17 07:16, Paul Gregg via mailop wrote:

Heads up in case anyone else is experiencing this.

We are aware of a recent change in behaviour of gmail.com where
most email is placed directly into Spam folder.

So far we have dozens of customers reporting this.
Tested myself with full SPF, DKIM and DMARC with p=reject - which gmail
itself marks as passing all tests. The mail was also delivered over 
TLS.

Mails go to Spam.

We're trying to reach out to google, but so far have no response.

We don't think it is just 'us', as reddit r/msp has others reporting
same from O365 direct to gmail.

PG
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Re: [mailop] gmail putting most messages into Spam

[Jeff via mailop]

PPE has replied and stated the issue is resolved

>From our tests this appears to be correct - FYI

On Tue, Jan 17, 2023 at 3:10 PM Jeff 
wrote:

> For us it is PPE customers to Google (even if the sender is on Google and
> the message originates from google, then goes to PPE it is still getting
> marked as spam)
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jan 17, 2023 at 11:09 AM Robert Schoneman via mailop <
> mailop@mailop.org> wrote:
>
>> We have emails going to Spam which originate from O365/PPE. Separately we
>> have emails which are now being categorized as updates which previously
>> were not. Sorry if that wasn’t clear.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* mailop  *On Behalf Of *Mark Alley via
>> mailop
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 17, 2023 10:48 AM
>> *To:* mailop@mailop.org
>> *Subject:* Re: [mailop] gmail putting most messages into Spam
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Sorry - categories*, not labels.
>>
>> On 1/17/2023 9:43 AM, Mark Alley wrote:
>>
>> The labels in Gmail/workspace aren't the same as spam, they are part of
>> the Inbox. If you have the user turn off labels, you will see them still in
>> the inbox as expected.
>>
>> On 1/17/2023 9:32 AM, Robert Schoneman via mailop wrote:
>>
>> Our outbound email from O365 through PPE to Gmail and Google Workspace is
>> going to Spam. “Show Original” indicates pass on all of SPF, DKIM, DMARC.
>> Emails that are nothing but text are going to Spam along with emails
>> containing links and/or attachments. We got the first user ticket about
>> this issue on Sunday evening when trying to communicate with a partner who
>> uses Google Workspace.
>>
>>
>>
>> We’ve also seen emails from our contact center system and ticketing
>> system which previously went to user’s Gmail Inboxes now going to
>> “Updates”. Contact center and ticketing system do not go through PPE or
>> O365.
>>
>>
>>
>> Something has definitely changed on Google’s side.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* mailop   *On
>> Behalf Of *Gellner, Oliver via mailop
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 17, 2023 10:15 AM
>> *To:* mailop@mailop.org
>> *Subject:* Re: [mailop] gmail putting most messages into Spam
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 2023-01-17 14:41, Paul Gregg via mailop wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> > We are aware of a recent change in behaviour of gmail.com where most
>> email is placed directly into Spam folder.
>>
>> > So far we have dozens of customers reporting this.
>>
>> > Tested myself with full SPF, DKIM and DMARC with p=reject - which gmail
>> itself marks as passing all tests. The mail was also delivered over TLS.
>>
>> > Mails go to Spam.
>>
>>
>>
>> I cannot confirm this issue, so it may be specific to certain IP
>> addresses or domains, as in Jaroslaw Rafas case, where it's likely
>> connected to the reputation of the used domain.
>>
>> Either way, SPF, DKIM and DMARC authenticate a message, they do not say
>> whether it's spam or not.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> BR Oliver
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>>
>>
>>
>> dmTECH GmbH
>>
>> Am dm-Platz 1, 76227 Karlsruhe * Postfach 10 02 34, 76232 Karlsruhe
>>
>> Telefon 0721 5592-2500 Telefax 0721 5592-2777
>>
>> dmt...@dm.de * www.dmTECH.de
>>
>> GmbH: Sitz Karlsruhe, Registergericht Mannheim, HRB 104927
>>
>> Geschäftsführer: Christoph Werner, Martin Dallmeier, Roman Melcher
>>
>> 
>>
>> Datenschutzrechtliche Informationen
>>
>> Wenn Sie mit uns in Kontakt treten, beispielsweise wenn Sie an unser
>> ServiceCenter Fragen haben, bei uns einkaufen oder unser dialogicum in
>> Karlsruhe besuchen, mit uns in einer geschäftlichen Verbindung stehen oder
>> sich bei uns bewerben, verarbeiten wir personenbezogene Daten.
>> Informationen unter anderem zu den konkreten Datenverarbeitungen,
>> Löschfristen, Ihren Rechten sowie die Kontaktdaten unserer
>> Datenschutzbeauftragten finden Sie hier<
>> https://www.dm.de/datenschutzerklaerung-kommunikation-mit-externen-493832
>> >.
>>
>> ___
>>
>> mailop mailing list
>>
>> mailop@mailop.org
>>
>> https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
>>
>> mailop mailing list
>>
>> mailop@mailop.org
>>
>> https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop
>>
>> ___
>> mailop mailing list
>> mailop@mailop.org
>> https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop
>>
>
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Re: [mailop] gmail putting most messages into Spam

[Jeff via mailop]

For us it is PPE customers to Google (even if the sender is on Google and
the message originates from google, then goes to PPE it is still getting
marked as spam)



On Tue, Jan 17, 2023 at 11:09 AM Robert Schoneman via mailop <
mailop@mailop.org> wrote:

> We have emails going to Spam which originate from O365/PPE. Separately we
> have emails which are now being categorized as updates which previously
> were not. Sorry if that wasn’t clear.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* mailop  *On Behalf Of *Mark Alley via
> mailop
> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 17, 2023 10:48 AM
> *To:* mailop@mailop.org
> *Subject:* Re: [mailop] gmail putting most messages into Spam
>
>
>
>
>
> Sorry - categories*, not labels.
>
> On 1/17/2023 9:43 AM, Mark Alley wrote:
>
> The labels in Gmail/workspace aren't the same as spam, they are part of
> the Inbox. If you have the user turn off labels, you will see them still in
> the inbox as expected.
>
> On 1/17/2023 9:32 AM, Robert Schoneman via mailop wrote:
>
> Our outbound email from O365 through PPE to Gmail and Google Workspace is
> going to Spam. “Show Original” indicates pass on all of SPF, DKIM, DMARC.
> Emails that are nothing but text are going to Spam along with emails
> containing links and/or attachments. We got the first user ticket about
> this issue on Sunday evening when trying to communicate with a partner who
> uses Google Workspace.
>
>
>
> We’ve also seen emails from our contact center system and ticketing system
> which previously went to user’s Gmail Inboxes now going to “Updates”.
> Contact center and ticketing system do not go through PPE or O365.
>
>
>
> Something has definitely changed on Google’s side.
>
>
>
> *From:* mailop   *On
> Behalf Of *Gellner, Oliver via mailop
> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 17, 2023 10:15 AM
> *To:* mailop@mailop.org
> *Subject:* Re: [mailop] gmail putting most messages into Spam
>
>
>
>
>
> On 2023-01-17 14:41, Paul Gregg via mailop wrote:
>
>
>
> > We are aware of a recent change in behaviour of gmail.com where most
> email is placed directly into Spam folder.
>
> > So far we have dozens of customers reporting this.
>
> > Tested myself with full SPF, DKIM and DMARC with p=reject - which gmail
> itself marks as passing all tests. The mail was also delivered over TLS.
>
> > Mails go to Spam.
>
>
>
> I cannot confirm this issue, so it may be specific to certain IP addresses
> or domains, as in Jaroslaw Rafas case, where it's likely connected to the
> reputation of the used domain.
>
> Either way, SPF, DKIM and DMARC authenticate a message, they do not say
> whether it's spam or not.
>
>
>
> --
>
> BR Oliver
>
>
>
> 
>
>
>
> dmTECH GmbH
>
> Am dm-Platz 1, 76227 Karlsruhe * Postfach 10 02 34, 76232 Karlsruhe
>
> Telefon 0721 5592-2500 Telefax 0721 5592-2777
>
> dmt...@dm.de * www.dmTECH.de
>
> GmbH: Sitz Karlsruhe, Registergericht Mannheim, HRB 104927
>
> Geschäftsführer: Christoph Werner, Martin Dallmeier, Roman Melcher
>
> 
>
> Datenschutzrechtliche Informationen
>
> Wenn Sie mit uns in Kontakt treten, beispielsweise wenn Sie an unser
> ServiceCenter Fragen haben, bei uns einkaufen oder unser dialogicum in
> Karlsruhe besuchen, mit uns in einer geschäftlichen Verbindung stehen oder
> sich bei uns bewerben, verarbeiten wir personenbezogene Daten.
> Informationen unter anderem zu den konkreten Datenverarbeitungen,
> Löschfristen, Ihren Rechten sowie die Kontaktdaten unserer
> Datenschutzbeauftragten finden Sie hier<
> https://www.dm.de/datenschutzerklaerung-kommunikation-mit-externen-493832
> >.
>
> ___
>
> mailop mailing list
>
> mailop@mailop.org
>
> https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop
>
>
>
> ___
>
> mailop mailing list
>
> mailop@mailop.org
>
> https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop
>
> ___
> mailop mailing list
> mailop@mailop.org
> https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop
>
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Re: [mailop] problem sending messages to gmail

[John Covici via mailop]

Still getting the problem -- I could not even send to my own gmail
account!

On Tue, 17 Jan 2023 11:59:28 -0500,
Paul Gregg via mailop wrote:
> 
> On Tue, Jan 17, 2023 at 11:31:22AM -0500, John Covici via mailop wrote:
> >  Hi.   For some reason this morning, I am having problems sending to
> >  gmail addresses.  I get the following error for each:
> > 
> >  <<< 550-5.7.1 [166.84.7.93  12] Our system has detected that this
> >  message is
> >  <<< 550-5.7.1 likely unsolicited mail. To reduce the amount of spam
> >  sent to Gmail,
> >  <<< 550-5.7.1 this message has been blocked. Please visit
> >  <<< 550-5.7.1
> >  https://support.google.com/mail/?p=UnsolicitedMessageError
> >   Now I have had no problems sending to gmail, but this message was
> >   send to maybe 40 users or so -- is this my problem, or am I doing
> >   something else wrong?
> > 
> >  Thanks in advance for any suggestions.
> 
> Yes, we also started seeing these in the past 60 or so hours. In this
> case, the message is rejected (and not delivered to the user) and
> (likely) and NDR is sent back.
> 
> I should note that within the past hour - things look to be
> significantly improved. Mail is making it to Inboxes - and seeing
> significantly fewer 550-5.7.1 responses.
> 
> PG
> ___
> mailop mailing list
> mailop@mailop.org
> https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop
> 

-- 
Your life is like a penny.  You're going to lose it.  The question is:
How do
you spend it?

 John Covici wb2una
 cov...@ccs.covici.com
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Re: [mailop] problem sending messages to gmail

[Paul Gregg via mailop]

On Tue, Jan 17, 2023 at 11:31:22AM -0500, John Covici via mailop wrote:
>  Hi.   For some reason this morning, I am having problems sending to
>  gmail addresses.  I get the following error for each:
> 
>  <<< 550-5.7.1 [166.84.7.93  12] Our system has detected that this
>  message is
>  <<< 550-5.7.1 likely unsolicited mail. To reduce the amount of spam
>  sent to Gmail,
>  <<< 550-5.7.1 this message has been blocked. Please visit
>  <<< 550-5.7.1
>  https://support.google.com/mail/?p=UnsolicitedMessageError
>   Now I have had no problems sending to gmail, but this message was
>   send to maybe 40 users or so -- is this my problem, or am I doing
>   something else wrong?
> 
>  Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

Yes, we also started seeing these in the past 60 or so hours. In this
case, the message is rejected (and not delivered to the user) and
(likely) and NDR is sent back.

I should note that within the past hour - things look to be
significantly improved. Mail is making it to Inboxes - and seeing
significantly fewer 550-5.7.1 responses.

PG
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[mailop] problem sending messages to gmail

[John Covici via mailop]

Hi.   For some reason this morning, I am having problems sending to
gmail addresses.  I get the following error for each:

<<< 550-5.7.1 [166.84.7.93  12] Our system has detected that this
message is
<<< 550-5.7.1 likely unsolicited mail. To reduce the amount of spam
sent to Gmail,
<<< 550-5.7.1 this message has been blocked. Please visit
<<< 550-5.7.1
https://support.google.com/mail/?p=UnsolicitedMessageError
 Now I have had no problems sending to gmail, but this message was
 send to maybe 40 users or so -- is this my problem, or am I doing
 something else wrong?

Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

-- 
Your life is like a penny.  You're going to lose it.  The question is:
How do
you spend it?

 John Covici wb2una
 cov...@ccs.covici.com
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Re: [mailop] gmail putting most messages into Spam

[Robert Schoneman via mailop]

We have emails going to Spam which originate from O365/PPE. Separately we have 
emails which are now being categorized as updates which previously were not. 
Sorry if that wasn’t clear.


From: mailop  On Behalf Of Mark Alley via mailop
Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2023 10:48 AM
To: mailop@mailop.org
Subject: Re: [mailop] gmail putting most messages into Spam

Sorry - categories*, not labels.  ‌  ‌  ‌  ‌  ‌  ‌  ‌  ‌  ‌  ‌  ‌  ‌  ‌  ‌  ‌  
‌  ‌  ‌  ‌  ‌  ‌  ‌  ‌  ‌  ‌  ‌  ‌  ‌  ‌  ‌  ‌  ‌  ‌  ‌  ‌  ‌  ‌  ‌  ‌  ‌  ‌  ‌ 
 ‌  ‌  ‌  ‌  ‌  ‌  ‌  ‌  ‌  ‌  ‌  ‌  ‌  ‌  ‌  ‌  ‌  ‌  ‌  ‌  ‌  ‌  ‌  ‌  ‌  ‌  
‌  ‌  ‌  ‌  ‌  ‌  ‌  ‌  ‌  ‌  ‌  ‌  ‌  ‌  ‌  ‌
[cid:image001.png@01D92A62.3C4EA950]
External (mailop@mailop.org)
[cid:image002.png@01D92A62.3C4EA950]
  Report This 
Email
  FAQ  Protection by 
INKY


Sorry - categories*, not labels.
On 1/17/2023 9:43 AM, Mark Alley wrote:

The labels in Gmail/workspace aren't the same as spam, they are part of the 
Inbox. If you have the user turn off labels, you will see them still in the 
inbox as expected.
On 1/17/2023 9:32 AM, Robert Schoneman via mailop wrote:
Our outbound email from O365 through PPE to Gmail and Google Workspace is going 
to Spam. “Show Original” indicates pass on all of SPF, DKIM, DMARC. Emails that 
are nothing but text are going to Spam along with emails containing links 
and/or attachments. We got the first user ticket about this issue on Sunday 
evening when trying to communicate with a partner who uses Google Workspace.

We’ve also seen emails from our contact center system and ticketing system 
which previously went to user’s Gmail Inboxes now going to “Updates”. Contact 
center and ticketing system do not go through PPE or O365.

Something has definitely changed on Google’s side.

From: mailop  On 
Behalf Of Gellner, Oliver via mailop
Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2023 10:15 AM
To: mailop@mailop.org
Subject: Re: [mailop] gmail putting most messages into Spam



On 2023-01-17 14:41, Paul Gregg via mailop wrote:



> We are aware of a recent change in behaviour of gmail.com where most email is 
> placed directly into Spam folder.

> So far we have dozens of customers reporting this.

> Tested myself with full SPF, DKIM and DMARC with p=reject - which gmail 
> itself marks as passing all tests. The mail was also delivered over TLS.

> Mails go to Spam.



I cannot confirm this issue, so it may be specific to certain IP addresses or 
domains, as in Jaroslaw Rafas case, where it's likely connected to the 
reputation of the used domain.

Either way, SPF, DKIM and DMARC authenticate a message, they do not say whether 
it's spam or not.



--

BR Oliver







dmTECH GmbH

Am dm-Platz 1, 76227 Karlsruhe * Postfach 10 02 34, 76232 Karlsruhe

Telefon 0721 5592-2500 Telefax 0721 5592-2777

dmt...@dm.de> * 
www.dmTECH.de

GmbH: Sitz Karlsruhe, Registergericht Mannheim, HRB 104927

Geschäftsführer: Christoph Werner, Martin Dallmeier, Roman Melcher



Datenschutzrechtliche Informationen

Wenn Sie mit uns in Kontakt treten, beispielsweise wenn Sie an unser 
ServiceCenter Fragen haben, bei uns einkaufen oder unser dialogicum in 
Karlsruhe besuchen, mit uns in einer geschäftlichen Verbindung stehen oder sich 
bei uns bewerben, verarbeiten wir personenbezogene Daten. Informationen unter 
anderem zu den konkreten Datenverarbeitungen, Löschfristen, Ihren Rechten sowie 
die Kontaktdaten unserer Datenschutzbeauftragten finden Sie 
hier.

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Re: [mailop] gmail putting most messages into Spam

[Mark Alley via mailop]

Sorry - categories*, not labels.

On 1/17/2023 9:43 AM, Mark Alley wrote:


The labels in Gmail/workspace aren't the same as spam, they are part 
of the Inbox. If you have the user turn off labels, you will see them 
still in the inbox as expected.


On 1/17/2023 9:32 AM, Robert Schoneman via mailop wrote:


Our outbound email from O365 through PPE to Gmail and Google 
Workspace is going to Spam. “Show Original” indicates pass on all of 
SPF, DKIM, DMARC. Emails that are nothing but text are going to Spam 
along with emails containing links and/or attachments. We got the 
first user ticket about this issue on Sunday evening when trying to 
communicate with a partner who uses Google Workspace.


We’ve also seen emails from our contact center system and ticketing 
system which previously went to user’s Gmail Inboxes now going to 
“Updates”. Contact center and ticketing system do not go through PPE 
or O365.


Something has definitely changed on Google’s side.

*From:* mailop  *On Behalf Of *Gellner, 
Oliver via mailop

*Sent:* Tuesday, January 17, 2023 10:15 AM
*To:* mailop@mailop.org
*Subject:* Re: [mailop] gmail putting most messages into Spam

On 2023-01-17 14:41, Paul Gregg via mailop wrote:

> We are aware of a recent change in behaviour of gmail.com where 
most email is placed directly into Spam folder.


> So far we have dozens of customers reporting this.

> Tested myself with full SPF, DKIM and DMARC with p=reject - which 
gmail itself marks as passing all tests. The mail was also delivered 
over TLS.


> Mails go to Spam.

I cannot confirm this issue, so it may be specific to certain IP 
addresses or domains, as in Jaroslaw Rafas case, where it's likely 
connected to the reputation of the used domain.


Either way, SPF, DKIM and DMARC authenticate a message, they do not 
say whether it's spam or not.


--

BR Oliver



dmTECH GmbH

Am dm-Platz 1, 76227 Karlsruhe * Postfach 10 02 34, 76232 Karlsruhe

Telefon 0721 5592-2500 Telefax 0721 5592-2777

dmt...@dm.de> * 
www.dmTECH.de


GmbH: Sitz Karlsruhe, Registergericht Mannheim, HRB 104927

Geschäftsführer: Christoph Werner, Martin Dallmeier, Roman Melcher



Datenschutzrechtliche Informationen

Wenn Sie mit uns in Kontakt treten, beispielsweise wenn Sie an unser 
ServiceCenter Fragen haben, bei uns einkaufen oder unser dialogicum 
in Karlsruhe besuchen, mit uns in einer geschäftlichen Verbindung 
stehen oder sich bei uns bewerben, verarbeiten wir personenbezogene 
Daten. Informationen unter anderem zu den konkreten 
Datenverarbeitungen, Löschfristen, Ihren Rechten sowie die 
Kontaktdaten unserer Datenschutzbeauftragten finden Sie 
hier.


___

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https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop


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Re: [mailop] gmail putting most messages into Spam

[Mark Alley via mailop]

The labels in Gmail/workspace aren't the same as spam, they are part of 
the Inbox. If you have the user turn off labels, you will see them still 
in the inbox as expected.


On 1/17/2023 9:32 AM, Robert Schoneman via mailop wrote:


Our outbound email from O365 through PPE to Gmail and Google Workspace 
is going to Spam. “Show Original” indicates pass on all of SPF, DKIM, 
DMARC. Emails that are nothing but text are going to Spam along with 
emails containing links and/or attachments. We got the first user 
ticket about this issue on Sunday evening when trying to communicate 
with a partner who uses Google Workspace.


We’ve also seen emails from our contact center system and ticketing 
system which previously went to user’s Gmail Inboxes now going to 
“Updates”. Contact center and ticketing system do not go through PPE 
or O365.


Something has definitely changed on Google’s side.

*From:* mailop  *On Behalf Of *Gellner, 
Oliver via mailop

*Sent:* Tuesday, January 17, 2023 10:15 AM
*To:* mailop@mailop.org
*Subject:* Re: [mailop] gmail putting most messages into Spam

On 2023-01-17 14:41, Paul Gregg via mailop wrote:

> We are aware of a recent change in behaviour of gmail.com where most 
email is placed directly into Spam folder.


> So far we have dozens of customers reporting this.

> Tested myself with full SPF, DKIM and DMARC with p=reject - which 
gmail itself marks as passing all tests. The mail was also delivered 
over TLS.


> Mails go to Spam.

I cannot confirm this issue, so it may be specific to certain IP 
addresses or domains, as in Jaroslaw Rafas case, where it's likely 
connected to the reputation of the used domain.


Either way, SPF, DKIM and DMARC authenticate a message, they do not 
say whether it's spam or not.


--

BR Oliver



dmTECH GmbH

Am dm-Platz 1, 76227 Karlsruhe * Postfach 10 02 34, 76232 Karlsruhe

Telefon 0721 5592-2500 Telefax 0721 5592-2777

dmt...@dm.de> * 
www.dmTECH.de


GmbH: Sitz Karlsruhe, Registergericht Mannheim, HRB 104927

Geschäftsführer: Christoph Werner, Martin Dallmeier, Roman Melcher



Datenschutzrechtliche Informationen

Wenn Sie mit uns in Kontakt treten, beispielsweise wenn Sie an unser 
ServiceCenter Fragen haben, bei uns einkaufen oder unser dialogicum in 
Karlsruhe besuchen, mit uns in einer geschäftlichen Verbindung stehen 
oder sich bei uns bewerben, verarbeiten wir personenbezogene Daten. 
Informationen unter anderem zu den konkreten Datenverarbeitungen, 
Löschfristen, Ihren Rechten sowie die Kontaktdaten unserer 
Datenschutzbeauftragten finden Sie 
hier.


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Re: [mailop] gmail putting most messages into Spam

[Robert Schoneman via mailop]

Our outbound email from O365 through PPE to Gmail and Google Workspace is going 
to Spam. "Show Original" indicates pass on all of SPF, DKIM, DMARC. Emails that 
are nothing but text are going to Spam along with emails containing links 
and/or attachments. We got the first user ticket about this issue on Sunday 
evening when trying to communicate with a partner who uses Google Workspace.

We've also seen emails from our contact center system and ticketing system 
which previously went to user's Gmail Inboxes now going to "Updates". Contact 
center and ticketing system do not go through PPE or O365.

Something has definitely changed on Google's side.

From: mailop  On Behalf Of Gellner, Oliver via mailop
Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2023 10:15 AM
To: mailop@mailop.org
Subject: Re: [mailop] gmail putting most messages into Spam

On 2023-01-17 14:41, Paul Gregg via mailop wrote: > We are aware of a recent 
change in behaviour of gmail.com where most email is placed directly into Spam 
folder. > So far we have dozens of customers
[cid:image001.png@01D92A5E.C3AD30A0]
External (mailop@mailop.org)
[cid:image002.png@01D92A5E.C3AD30A0]
  Report This 
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On 2023-01-17 14:41, Paul Gregg via mailop wrote:



> We are aware of a recent change in behaviour of gmail.com where most email is 
> placed directly into Spam folder.

> So far we have dozens of customers reporting this.

> Tested myself with full SPF, DKIM and DMARC with p=reject - which gmail 
> itself marks as passing all tests. The mail was also delivered over TLS.

> Mails go to Spam.



I cannot confirm this issue, so it may be specific to certain IP addresses or 
domains, as in Jaroslaw Rafas case, where it's likely connected to the 
reputation of the used domain.

Either way, SPF, DKIM and DMARC authenticate a message, they do not say whether 
it's spam or not.



--

BR Oliver







dmTECH GmbH

Am dm-Platz 1, 76227 Karlsruhe * Postfach 10 02 34, 76232 Karlsruhe

Telefon 0721 5592-2500 Telefax 0721 5592-2777

dmt...@dm.de> * 
www.dmTECH.de

GmbH: Sitz Karlsruhe, Registergericht Mannheim, HRB 104927

Geschäftsführer: Christoph Werner, Martin Dallmeier, Roman Melcher



Datenschutzrechtliche Informationen

Wenn Sie mit uns in Kontakt treten, beispielsweise wenn Sie an unser 
ServiceCenter Fragen haben, bei uns einkaufen oder unser dialogicum in 
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Re: [mailop] gmail putting most messages into Spam

[Gellner, Oliver via mailop]

On 2023-01-17 14:41, Paul Gregg via mailop wrote:

> We are aware of a recent change in behaviour of gmail.com where most email is 
> placed directly into Spam folder.
> So far we have dozens of customers reporting this.
> Tested myself with full SPF, DKIM and DMARC with p=reject - which gmail 
> itself marks as passing all tests. The mail was also delivered over TLS.
> Mails go to Spam.

I cannot confirm this issue, so it may be specific to certain IP addresses or 
domains, as in Jaroslaw Rafas case, where it's likely connected to the 
reputation of the used domain.
Either way, SPF, DKIM and DMARC authenticate a message, they do not say whether 
it's spam or not.

--
BR Oliver



dmTECH GmbH
Am dm-Platz 1, 76227 Karlsruhe * Postfach 10 02 34, 76232 Karlsruhe
Telefon 0721 5592-2500 Telefax 0721 5592-2777
dmt...@dm.de * www.dmTECH.de
GmbH: Sitz Karlsruhe, Registergericht Mannheim, HRB 104927
Geschäftsführer: Christoph Werner, Martin Dallmeier, Roman Melcher

Datenschutzrechtliche Informationen
Wenn Sie mit uns in Kontakt treten, beispielsweise wenn Sie an unser 
ServiceCenter Fragen haben, bei uns einkaufen oder unser dialogicum in 
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Re: [mailop] gmail putting most messages into Spam

[Mark Alley via mailop]

Ah, that is interesting. I checked with a few client PoD clusters I have 
access to and haven't noticed any spam filtering issues at the moment 
with consumer gmail accounts or workspace tenants.



On 1/17/2023 9:05 AM, Paul Gregg wrote:

On Tue, Jan 17, 2023 at 08:28:54AM -0600, Mark Alley via mailop wrote:

Just to clarify - Do you mean from Proofpoint enterprise (PoD) customers or
Proofpoint essentials? I could definitely see essentials having this problem
as their IP space is shared amongst customers, but PoD clusters each
individually have their own IPs that are separate from any other customer.

On 1/17/2023 8:15 AM, Jeff via mailop wrote:

We too have been seeing this in the last 48 hours

Only from clients sending out from Proofpoint though and Google is
marking them as Spam for the reason "Blatant Spam"... when they are
clearly not

We have tickets open with all relevant providers (Proofpoint and Google)
to see if we can figure this out

In my case, Proofpoint Essentials*. Tho a post in r/msp about this same
issue last night also suggests folks are seeing it from PoD and even
when they removed Proofpoint from the path and sent O365->Gmail
directly.

Disclosure: * I'm the Eng Manager responsible for the Essentials
Platform.


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Re: [mailop] gmail putting most messages into Spam

[Paul Gregg via mailop]

On Tue, Jan 17, 2023 at 08:28:54AM -0600, Mark Alley via mailop wrote:
> Just to clarify - Do you mean from Proofpoint enterprise (PoD) customers or
> Proofpoint essentials? I could definitely see essentials having this problem
> as their IP space is shared amongst customers, but PoD clusters each
> individually have their own IPs that are separate from any other customer.
> 
> On 1/17/2023 8:15 AM, Jeff via mailop wrote:
> > We too have been seeing this in the last 48 hours
> > 
> > Only from clients sending out from Proofpoint though and Google is
> > marking them as Spam for the reason "Blatant Spam"... when they are
> > clearly not
> > 
> > We have tickets open with all relevant providers (Proofpoint and Google)
> > to see if we can figure this out

In my case, Proofpoint Essentials*. Tho a post in r/msp about this same
issue last night also suggests folks are seeing it from PoD and even
when they removed Proofpoint from the path and sent O365->Gmail
directly.

Disclosure: * I'm the Eng Manager responsible for the Essentials
Platform.

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Re: [mailop] gmail putting most messages into Spam

[Al Iverson via mailop]

A (wanted) notification from Google's Blogger service to me went to
spam this morning, which is new and unique. But it talks about email
auth, and spam, so I'm not 100% sure it's related.

I'd love to see an example of this -- anybody affected, feel free to
email me off list? This address (aiver...@wombatmail.com) is Gmail.

Thanks,
Al

On Tue, Jan 17, 2023 at 8:32 AM Mark Alley via mailop  wrote:
>
> Just to clarify - Do you mean from Proofpoint enterprise (PoD) customers or 
> Proofpoint essentials? I could definitely see essentials having this problem 
> as their IP space is shared amongst customers, but PoD clusters each 
> individually have their own IPs that are separate from any other customer.
>
> On 1/17/2023 8:15 AM, Jeff via mailop wrote:
>
> We too have been seeing this in the last 48 hours
>
> Only from clients sending out from Proofpoint though and Google is 
> marking them as Spam for the reason "Blatant Spam"... when they are clearly 
> not
>
> We have tickets open with all relevant providers (Proofpoint and Google) to 
> see if we can figure this out
>
> On Tue, Jan 17, 2023 at 9:10 AM Jaroslaw Rafa via mailop  
> wrote:
>>
>> Dnia 17.01.2023 o godz. 13:16:03 Paul Gregg via mailop pisze:
>> > Heads up in case anyone else is experiencing this.
>> >
>> > We are aware of a recent change in behaviour of gmail.com where
>> > most email is placed directly into Spam folder.
>> >
>> > So far we have dozens of customers reporting this.
>> > Tested myself with full SPF, DKIM and DMARC with p=reject - which gmail
>> > itself marks as passing all tests. The mail was also delivered over TLS.
>> > Mails go to Spam.
>> >
>> > We're trying to reach out to google, but so far have no response.
>> >
>> > We don't think it is just 'us', as reddit r/msp has others reporting
>> > same from O365 direct to gmail.
>>
>> Welcome to the club :(
>>
>> I'm experiencing this for over 2 years. Have written about this on this very
>> list a few times. Google just suddenly stopped to "like" my domain. I had
>> no SPF, DKIM nor DMARC at that time (despite this I didn't have any
>> deliverability problem, including Google). After Google changed something
>> and started to spam-mark my mail I implemented SPF/DKIM/DMARC (outgoing
>> only, I don't want to bother with checking this crap on incoming mail).
>> Everything passes at Google, but it doesn't help.
>>
>> However, when I send from exactly the same server, using exactly the same
>> mail client, only with diferent sender domain, the mails go through. So I
>> know it's the domain Google doesn't like.
>>
>> Nothing helps - even when the recipient at Gmail flags my mail as non-spam,
>> it can happen that next messages from me still go to spam. Even when I REPLY
>> (!) to a mail I got from a Gmail user, my reply goes to spam, which is
>> completely illogical. It should be obvious for Google to detect that this is
>> a reply to a message that was previously sent from Gmail.
>>
>> I have filled in the "sender troubleshooting form" on Google website
>> multiple times (you need to provide headers from receiving side of the mail
>> that was misclassified as spam, so I made myself a test account at Gmail
>> that I am sending messages to) - however they state in advance that they
>> won't contact you and inform you whether they did anything or not to your
>> complaint. Looks like they didn't do anything. I managed to reach Brandon
>> from Google via this very list, but he said that it just works so and from
>> their point of view they don't see any reason to change anything. I just
>> happen to have a domain whose parent domain has a "poor reputation" and I
>> have to accept it.
>>
>> I even made a blog post about it some time ago, but it's in my language (ie.
>> Polish). After that post I was contacted by some other people who are
>> unlucky to be in the same situation.
>>
>> Shame on you Google.
>> --
>> Regards,
>>Jaroslaw Rafa
>>r...@rafa.eu.org
>> --
>> "In a million years, when kids go to school, they're gonna know: once there
>> was a Hushpuppy, and she lived with her daddy in the Bathtub."
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-- 

Al Iverson / Deliverability blogging at www.spamresource.com
Subscribe to the weekly newsletter at wombatmail.com/sr.cgi
DNS Tools at xnnd.com / (312) 725-0130 / Chicago (Central Time)
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Re: [mailop] gmail putting most messages into Spam

[Mark Alley via mailop]

Just to clarify - Do you mean from Proofpoint enterprise (PoD) customers 
or Proofpoint essentials? I could definitely see essentials having this 
problem as their IP space is shared amongst customers, but PoD clusters 
each individually have their own IPs that are separate from any other 
customer.


On 1/17/2023 8:15 AM, Jeff via mailop wrote:

We too have been seeing this in the last 48 hours

Only from clients sending out from Proofpoint though and Google is 
marking them as Spam for the reason "Blatant Spam"... when they are 
clearly not


We have tickets open with all relevant providers (Proofpoint and 
Google) to see if we can figure this out


On Tue, Jan 17, 2023 at 9:10 AM Jaroslaw Rafa via mailop 
 wrote:


Dnia 17.01.2023 o godz. 13:16:03 Paul Gregg via mailop pisze:
> Heads up in case anyone else is experiencing this.
>
> We are aware of a recent change in behaviour of gmail.com
 where
> most email is placed directly into Spam folder.
>
> So far we have dozens of customers reporting this.
> Tested myself with full SPF, DKIM and DMARC with p=reject -
which gmail
> itself marks as passing all tests. The mail was also delivered
over TLS.
> Mails go to Spam.
>
> We're trying to reach out to google, but so far have no response.
>
> We don't think it is just 'us', as reddit r/msp has others reporting
> same from O365 direct to gmail.

Welcome to the club :(

I'm experiencing this for over 2 years. Have written about this on
this very
list a few times. Google just suddenly stopped to "like" my
domain. I had
no SPF, DKIM nor DMARC at that time (despite this I didn't have any
deliverability problem, including Google). After Google changed
something
and started to spam-mark my mail I implemented SPF/DKIM/DMARC
(outgoing
only, I don't want to bother with checking this crap on incoming
mail).
Everything passes at Google, but it doesn't help.

However, when I send from exactly the same server, using exactly
the same
mail client, only with diferent sender domain, the mails go
through. So I
know it's the domain Google doesn't like.

Nothing helps - even when the recipient at Gmail flags my mail as
non-spam,
it can happen that next messages from me still go to spam. Even
when I REPLY
(!) to a mail I got from a Gmail user, my reply goes to spam, which is
completely illogical. It should be obvious for Google to detect
that this is
a reply to a message that was previously sent from Gmail.

I have filled in the "sender troubleshooting form" on Google website
multiple times (you need to provide headers from receiving side of
the mail
that was misclassified as spam, so I made myself a test account at
Gmail
that I am sending messages to) - however they state in advance
that they
won't contact you and inform you whether they did anything or not
to your
complaint. Looks like they didn't do anything. I managed to reach
Brandon
from Google via this very list, but he said that it just works so
and from
their point of view they don't see any reason to change anything.
I just
happen to have a domain whose parent domain has a "poor
reputation" and I
have to accept it.

I even made a blog post about it some time ago, but it's in my
language (ie.
Polish). After that post I was contacted by some other people who are
unlucky to be in the same situation.

Shame on you Google.
-- 
Regards,

   Jaroslaw Rafa
r...@rafa.eu.org
--
"In a million years, when kids go to school, they're gonna know:
once there
was a Hushpuppy, and she lived with her daddy in the Bathtub."
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Description: OpenPGP public key


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Re: [mailop] gmail putting most messages into Spam

[Jeff via mailop]

We too have been seeing this in the last 48 hours

Only from clients sending out from Proofpoint though and Google is
marking them as Spam for the reason "Blatant Spam"... when they are clearly
not

We have tickets open with all relevant providers (Proofpoint and Google) to
see if we can figure this out

On Tue, Jan 17, 2023 at 9:10 AM Jaroslaw Rafa via mailop 
wrote:

> Dnia 17.01.2023 o godz. 13:16:03 Paul Gregg via mailop pisze:
> > Heads up in case anyone else is experiencing this.
> >
> > We are aware of a recent change in behaviour of gmail.com where
> > most email is placed directly into Spam folder.
> >
> > So far we have dozens of customers reporting this.
> > Tested myself with full SPF, DKIM and DMARC with p=reject - which gmail
> > itself marks as passing all tests. The mail was also delivered over TLS.
> > Mails go to Spam.
> >
> > We're trying to reach out to google, but so far have no response.
> >
> > We don't think it is just 'us', as reddit r/msp has others reporting
> > same from O365 direct to gmail.
>
> Welcome to the club :(
>
> I'm experiencing this for over 2 years. Have written about this on this
> very
> list a few times. Google just suddenly stopped to "like" my domain. I had
> no SPF, DKIM nor DMARC at that time (despite this I didn't have any
> deliverability problem, including Google). After Google changed something
> and started to spam-mark my mail I implemented SPF/DKIM/DMARC (outgoing
> only, I don't want to bother with checking this crap on incoming mail).
> Everything passes at Google, but it doesn't help.
>
> However, when I send from exactly the same server, using exactly the same
> mail client, only with diferent sender domain, the mails go through. So I
> know it's the domain Google doesn't like.
>
> Nothing helps - even when the recipient at Gmail flags my mail as non-spam,
> it can happen that next messages from me still go to spam. Even when I
> REPLY
> (!) to a mail I got from a Gmail user, my reply goes to spam, which is
> completely illogical. It should be obvious for Google to detect that this
> is
> a reply to a message that was previously sent from Gmail.
>
> I have filled in the "sender troubleshooting form" on Google website
> multiple times (you need to provide headers from receiving side of the mail
> that was misclassified as spam, so I made myself a test account at Gmail
> that I am sending messages to) - however they state in advance that they
> won't contact you and inform you whether they did anything or not to your
> complaint. Looks like they didn't do anything. I managed to reach Brandon
> from Google via this very list, but he said that it just works so and from
> their point of view they don't see any reason to change anything. I just
> happen to have a domain whose parent domain has a "poor reputation" and I
> have to accept it.
>
> I even made a blog post about it some time ago, but it's in my language
> (ie.
> Polish). After that post I was contacted by some other people who are
> unlucky to be in the same situation.
>
> Shame on you Google.
> --
> Regards,
>Jaroslaw Rafa
>r...@rafa.eu.org
> --
> "In a million years, when kids go to school, they're gonna know: once there
> was a Hushpuppy, and she lived with her daddy in the Bathtub."
> ___
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Re: [mailop] gmail putting most messages into Spam

[Jaroslaw Rafa via mailop]

Dnia 17.01.2023 o godz. 13:16:03 Paul Gregg via mailop pisze:
> Heads up in case anyone else is experiencing this.
> 
> We are aware of a recent change in behaviour of gmail.com where
> most email is placed directly into Spam folder.
> 
> So far we have dozens of customers reporting this.
> Tested myself with full SPF, DKIM and DMARC with p=reject - which gmail
> itself marks as passing all tests. The mail was also delivered over TLS.
> Mails go to Spam.
> 
> We're trying to reach out to google, but so far have no response.
> 
> We don't think it is just 'us', as reddit r/msp has others reporting
> same from O365 direct to gmail.

Welcome to the club :(

I'm experiencing this for over 2 years. Have written about this on this very
list a few times. Google just suddenly stopped to "like" my domain. I had
no SPF, DKIM nor DMARC at that time (despite this I didn't have any
deliverability problem, including Google). After Google changed something
and started to spam-mark my mail I implemented SPF/DKIM/DMARC (outgoing
only, I don't want to bother with checking this crap on incoming mail). 
Everything passes at Google, but it doesn't help.

However, when I send from exactly the same server, using exactly the same
mail client, only with diferent sender domain, the mails go through. So I
know it's the domain Google doesn't like.

Nothing helps - even when the recipient at Gmail flags my mail as non-spam,
it can happen that next messages from me still go to spam. Even when I REPLY
(!) to a mail I got from a Gmail user, my reply goes to spam, which is
completely illogical. It should be obvious for Google to detect that this is
a reply to a message that was previously sent from Gmail.

I have filled in the "sender troubleshooting form" on Google website
multiple times (you need to provide headers from receiving side of the mail
that was misclassified as spam, so I made myself a test account at Gmail
that I am sending messages to) - however they state in advance that they
won't contact you and inform you whether they did anything or not to your
complaint. Looks like they didn't do anything. I managed to reach Brandon
from Google via this very list, but he said that it just works so and from
their point of view they don't see any reason to change anything. I just
happen to have a domain whose parent domain has a "poor reputation" and I
have to accept it.

I even made a blog post about it some time ago, but it's in my language (ie.
Polish). After that post I was contacted by some other people who are
unlucky to be in the same situation.

Shame on you Google.
-- 
Regards,
   Jaroslaw Rafa
   r...@rafa.eu.org
--
"In a million years, when kids go to school, they're gonna know: once there
was a Hushpuppy, and she lived with her daddy in the Bathtub."
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Re: [mailop] gmail putting most messages into Spam

[Paul Gregg via mailop]

On Tue, Jan 17, 2023 at 02:50:04PM +0100, Peter N. M. Hansteen wrote:
>  Just a wild guess based on experience - do those deliveries happen over IPv6?

In this case, no.  We* only have IPv4 throughout the stack - IPv6 is
disabled everywhere.

*Proofpoint Essentials

I did think it might be TLS - but every test I've seen did hand off to
gmail over TLS - so not that.

Regards,
PG
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Re: [mailop] gmail putting most messages into Spam

[Peter N. M. Hansteen via mailop]

On Tue, Jan 17, 2023 at 01:16:03PM +, Paul Gregg via mailop wrote:
> Heads up in case anyone else is experiencing this.
> 
> We are aware of a recent change in behaviour of gmail.com where
> most email is placed directly into Spam folder.
> 
> So far we have dozens of customers reporting this.
> Tested myself with full SPF, DKIM and DMARC with p=reject - which gmail
> itself marks as passing all tests. The mail was also delivered over TLS.
> Mails go to Spam.
> 
> We're trying to reach out to google, but so far have no response.
> 
> We don't think it is just 'us', as reddit r/msp has others reporting
> same from O365 direct to gmail.

Just a wild guess based on experience - do those deliveries happen over IPv6?

I've seen similar when delivery was attempted from an IPv6 address without 
proper reverse lookup. 

At the time (some years back) it looked to me at least that Google had decided 
to be quite a bit stricter in handling mail from IPv6 space than from IPv4.

All the best,
Peter

-- 
Peter N. M. Hansteen, member of the first RFC 1149 implementation team
https://bsdly.blogspot.com/ https://www.bsdly.net/ https://www.nuug.no/
"Remember to set the evil bit on all malicious network traffic"
delilah spamd[29949]: 85.152.224.147: disconnected after 42673 seconds.
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[mailop] gmail putting most messages into Spam

[Paul Gregg via mailop]

Heads up in case anyone else is experiencing this.

We are aware of a recent change in behaviour of gmail.com where
most email is placed directly into Spam folder.

So far we have dozens of customers reporting this.
Tested myself with full SPF, DKIM and DMARC with p=reject - which gmail
itself marks as passing all tests. The mail was also delivered over TLS.
Mails go to Spam.

We're trying to reach out to google, but so far have no response.

We don't think it is just 'us', as reddit r/msp has others reporting
same from O365 direct to gmail.

PG
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