Re: [mailop] Outlook says "mail accepted for delivery" but it never shows up

[David Hofstee]

Hi Andrew,

But in your case you may have some differing "ip reputation" to account
for. For me the only difference was the html layout. Nothing else was
changed.

I have to say this was years ago. I generally do not spend so much time on
a single message.

Yours,


David

On 22 November 2017 at 17:03, Andrew Wingle <awin...@listrak.com> wrote:

> Hi David,
>
>
>
> I can attest to the same issue and the replication of the issue. We have
> found some scenarios where the same email will deliver to specific domain
> on one IP and not of the other. I cannot say that we have seen a different
> result by “cleaning” the HTML up. Seems that the blackholing has increased
> significantly over the past few weeks if other metrics are indeed
> indicative of this problem.
>
>
>
> e.g.
>
> This is for the same exact message. Nothing about the messages are
> changed. Messages are DKIM signed and have SPF-passing. IPs are given to
> show an example only.
>
>
>
> recipient domain  sender IP result
>
> x...@hotmail.com142.0.83.00 accepted and delivered
>
> a...@outlook.com   142.0.83.00 accepted but never found
> (blackholed)
>
>
>
> recipient domain  sender IP result
>
> x...@hotmail.com142.0.83.01 accepted but never found
> (blackholed)
>
> a...@outlook.com   142.0.83.01 accepted and delivered
>
>
>
> For the message that is received in the mailbox there is nothing unique
> about the header results to give way to what may have happened to the other
> recipient’s message.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Andrew
>
>
>
>
>
> *ANDREW D. WINGLE*
>
>
>
> 717-625-7857 <(717)%20625-7857> direct
>
> --------
>
>
>
> *From:* mailop [mailto:mailop-boun...@mailop.org] *On Behalf Of *David
> Hofstee
> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 22, 2017 10:40 AM
> *To:* mailop <mailop@mailop.org>
> *Subject:* Re: [mailop] Outlook says "mail accepted for delivery" but it
> never shows up
>
>
>
> Hi Klaus,
>
>
>
> No, actually it was perfectly repeatable. We couldn't believe it either.
> Since this was a notification email of the ESP application we really wanted
> to know why it was dropped by Microsoft so we rinsed and repeated...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> David
>
>
>
> On 22 November 2017 at 10:42, Klaus Ethgen <klaus+mai...@ethgen.de> wrote:
>
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA512
>
> Hi,
>
> Am Mi den 22. Nov 2017 um 10:21 schrieb David Hofstee:
> > It certainly could also have to do with the html content formatting. I
> have
> > seen that a cleaner html layout suddenly allowed my email.
>
> Well, that is just a random coincident. I have even plain text mails
> dropped by microsoft.
>
> Regards
>Klaus
> - --
> Klaus Ethgen   http://www.ethgen.ch/
> pub  4096R/4E20AF1C 2011-05-16Klaus Ethgen <kl...@ethgen.ch>
> Fingerprint: 85D4 CA42 952C 949B 1753  62B3 79D0 B06F 4E20 AF1C
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
> Comment: Charset: ISO-8859-1
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> -END PGP SIGNATURE-
>
>
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>
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>
> My opinion is mine.
>



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Re: [mailop] Outlook says "mail accepted for delivery" but it never shows up

[Andrew Wingle]

Hi David,

I can attest to the same issue and the replication of the issue. We have found 
some scenarios where the same email will deliver to specific domain on one IP 
and not of the other. I cannot say that we have seen a different result by 
“cleaning” the HTML up. Seems that the blackholing has increased significantly 
over the past few weeks if other metrics are indeed indicative of this problem.

e.g.
This is for the same exact message. Nothing about the messages are changed. 
Messages are DKIM signed and have SPF-passing. IPs are given to show an example 
only.

recipient domain  sender IP result
x...@hotmail.com142.0.83.00 accepted and delivered
a...@outlook.com   142.0.83.00 accepted but never found 
(blackholed)

recipient domain  sender IP result
x...@hotmail.com142.0.83.01 accepted but never found 
(blackholed)
a...@outlook.com   142.0.83.01 accepted and delivered

For the message that is received in the mailbox there is nothing unique about 
the header results to give way to what may have happened to the other 
recipient’s message.

Regards,
Andrew


ANDREW D. WINGLE

717-625-7857 direct


From: mailop [mailto:mailop-boun...@mailop.org] On Behalf Of David Hofstee
Sent: Wednesday, November 22, 2017 10:40 AM
To: mailop <mailop@mailop.org>
Subject: Re: [mailop] Outlook says "mail accepted for delivery" but it never 
shows up

Hi Klaus,

No, actually it was perfectly repeatable. We couldn't believe it either. Since 
this was a notification email of the ESP application we really wanted to know 
why it was dropped by Microsoft so we rinsed and repeated...



David

On 22 November 2017 at 10:42, Klaus Ethgen 
<klaus+mai...@ethgen.de<mailto:klaus+mai...@ethgen.de>> wrote:
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA512

Hi,

Am Mi den 22. Nov 2017 um 10:21 schrieb David Hofstee:
> It certainly could also have to do with the html content formatting. I have
> seen that a cleaner html layout suddenly allowed my email.

Well, that is just a random coincident. I have even plain text mails
dropped by microsoft.

Regards
   Klaus
- --
Klaus Ethgen   http://www.ethgen.ch/
pub  4096R/4E20AF1C 2011-05-16Klaus Ethgen 
<kl...@ethgen.ch<mailto:kl...@ethgen.ch>>
Fingerprint: 85D4 CA42 952C 949B 1753  62B3 79D0 B06F 4E20 AF1C
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Re: [mailop] Outlook says "mail accepted for delivery" but it never shows up

[Laura Atkins]

In that case, it’s likely a bit of the content of the email that’s triggering 
some of their internal filters. MS has, for a long time, had a policy of 
dropping mail in the floor if they judge it to be bad enough after they’ve 
accepted it. If it’s particular messages then there’s a content (links, URLs, 
landing pages) issue somewhere. 

If it’s only to one address then it’s possible that address has some filter 
that’s causing the mail to drop. I know I investigated something a while back 
where if customers created “never send me email with  in it” the mail 
wouldn’t be delivered.

laura 


> On Nov 22, 2017, at 7:39 AM, David Hofstee  
> wrote:
> 
> Hi Klaus,
> 
> No, actually it was perfectly repeatable. We couldn't believe it either. 
> Since this was a notification email of the ESP application we really wanted 
> to know why it was dropped by Microsoft so we rinsed and repeated...
> 
> 
> 
> David
> 
> On 22 November 2017 at 10:42, Klaus Ethgen  > wrote:
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA512
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Am Mi den 22. Nov 2017 um 10:21 schrieb David Hofstee:
> > It certainly could also have to do with the html content formatting. I have
> > seen that a cleaner html layout suddenly allowed my email.
> 
> Well, that is just a random coincident. I have even plain text mails
> dropped by microsoft.
> 
> Regards
>Klaus
> - --
> Klaus Ethgen   http://www.ethgen.ch/ 
> 
> pub  4096R/4E20AF1C 2011-05-16Klaus Ethgen 
> Fingerprint: 85D4 CA42 952C 949B 1753  62B3 79D0 B06F 4E20 AF1C
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
> Comment: Charset: ISO-8859-1
> 
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> =6qLG
> -END PGP SIGNATURE-
> 
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> 
> 
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-- 
Having an Email Crisis?  We can help! 800 823-9674 

Laura Atkins
Word to the Wise
la...@wordtothewise.com
(650) 437-0741  

Email Delivery Blog: https://wordtothewise.com/blog 







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Re: [mailop] Outlook says "mail accepted for delivery" but it never shows up

[David Hofstee]

Hi Klaus,

No, actually it was perfectly repeatable. We couldn't believe it either.
Since this was a notification email of the ESP application we really wanted
to know why it was dropped by Microsoft so we rinsed and repeated...



David

On 22 November 2017 at 10:42, Klaus Ethgen  wrote:

> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA512
>
> Hi,
>
> Am Mi den 22. Nov 2017 um 10:21 schrieb David Hofstee:
> > It certainly could also have to do with the html content formatting. I
> have
> > seen that a cleaner html layout suddenly allowed my email.
>
> Well, that is just a random coincident. I have even plain text mails
> dropped by microsoft.
>
> Regards
>Klaus
> - --
> Klaus Ethgen   http://www.ethgen.ch/
> pub  4096R/4E20AF1C 2011-05-16Klaus Ethgen 
> Fingerprint: 85D4 CA42 952C 949B 1753  62B3 79D0 B06F 4E20 AF1C
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
> Comment: Charset: ISO-8859-1
>
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> -END PGP SIGNATURE-
>
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Re: [mailop] Outlook says "mail accepted for delivery" but it never shows up

[Klaus Ethgen]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA512

Hi,

Am Mi den 22. Nov 2017 um 10:21 schrieb David Hofstee:
> It certainly could also have to do with the html content formatting. I have
> seen that a cleaner html layout suddenly allowed my email.

Well, that is just a random coincident. I have even plain text mails
dropped by microsoft.

Regards
   Klaus
- -- 
Klaus Ethgen   http://www.ethgen.ch/
pub  4096R/4E20AF1C 2011-05-16Klaus Ethgen 
Fingerprint: 85D4 CA42 952C 949B 1753  62B3 79D0 B06F 4E20 AF1C
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Comment: Charset: ISO-8859-1

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hnQH6fWj
=6qLG
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Re: [mailop] Outlook says "mail accepted for delivery" but it never shows up

[David Hofstee]

Hi Mathieu,

It certainly could also have to do with the html content formatting. I have
seen that a cleaner html layout suddenly allowed my email. Same IP, same
sender, same text, same layout, different html. That made the difference
between dropping the email and letting it through at Microsoft.

Yours,


David

On 21 November 2017 at 14:07, Mathieu Marnat  wrote:

> This is indeed the issue : everything is set up correctly.
>
> SNDS has a "View IP Status" page that is supposed to tell you when there
> is a block, there are also SMTP replies for that. Instead, Outlook just
> replies "accepted for delivery" when it is in fact blocked.
>
> What is even more curious about this is that some of the IPs blocked are
> green on SNDS, and they accepted to lift the block. So, was the block
> legitimate in the first place ? I tend to doubt it.
>
>
> Mathieu.
>
>
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Re: [mailop] Outlook says "mail accepted for delivery" but it never shows up

[Melissa Vanhentenrijck]

Hi everyone, 

We have also experienced this several times for several of our customers. 
Emails just seem to disappear into a black hole. We set up SPF, DKIM and DMARC 
by default for all of our customers and our IPs are registered on SNDS. 

We've already logged several tickets about these issues. Usually they do 
resolve the issue quite fast after which emails are delivered again as 
expected, but I didn't receive an explanation on why this happened or what the 
fix was or how to avoid it in the future. 

Kind regards, 

Melissa Vanhentenrijck

-Original Message-
From: mailop [mailto:mailop-boun...@mailop.org] On Behalf Of Renaud Allard via 
mailop
Sent: Monday, November 20, 2017 12:32
To: mailop@mailop.org
Subject: Re: [mailop] Outlook says "mail accepted for delivery" but it never 
shows up


On 11/20/2017 11:34 AM, Mathieu Marnat wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> 
> Has anyone noticed cases where Outlook says that email is accepted for 
> delivery but in fact you can never see it in any folder of your webmail ?
> 
> I contacted Outlook's support but I am also interested in knowing if I 
> am the only one in that case. These days, delivering legitimate emails 
> to Outlook seems to be a tough job.
> 
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> 


Hi,

I assume you are talking about outlook.com. That's a very very very common 
issue. These servers just accept many things and never deliver them if they 
decide that, after accepting, the message doesn't look 'good enough'.

Try to set up SPF , DKIM, DMARC, and verify you are not in a know blacklist or 
you IP doesn't have a bad reputation. Also, you should subscribe to SNDS.

Best Regards


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Re: [mailop] Outlook says "mail accepted for delivery" but it never shows up

[Renaud Allard via mailop]

On 11/20/2017 11:34 AM, Mathieu Marnat wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> 
> Has anyone noticed cases where Outlook says that email is accepted for
> delivery but in fact you can never see it in any folder of your webmail ?
> 
> I contacted Outlook's support but I am also interested in knowing if I
> am the only one in that case. These days, delivering legitimate emails
> to Outlook seems to be a tough job.
> 
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> 


Hi,

I assume you are talking about outlook.com. That's a very very very
common issue. These servers just accept many things and never deliver
them if they decide that, after accepting, the message doesn't look
'good enough'.

Try to set up SPF , DKIM, DMARC, and verify you are not in a know
blacklist or you IP doesn't have a bad reputation. Also, you should
subscribe to SNDS.

Best Regards



smime.p7s
Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature
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