Re: [MapHist] Query: Arno Peters controversy
This is a MapHist list message (when you hit 'reply' you're replying to the whole list) o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + Dear Vladimiro While agreeing with everything you have written I do think we may have missed the point a little. My reply was to point out to / remind Stefan that there was at least one other name connected to this particular projection. I have no axe to grind with the projection per se. Secondly, there are a lot of people out here who are not learned (your bold type). I do classify myself as a lover of maps and an amateur collector and perhaps know a little more about these wonderful works of art than many, but I do not classify myself as learned as I still have much to learn. Thirdly, and most importantly, we have not given poor Stefan many sources which he can refer to which was his original appeal. (Sorry if I have missed any besides Joost's references to his father's work.) Maybe some of the learned community out there can give him some decent references. I do not think anyone wants to start up a pro-contra discussion here as I believe most readers are on your side. Best wishes to all MapHisters Kit This email has been sent to you by: Kit Batten Auerhahnweg 7 70499 Stuttgart Germany kitthe...@aol.com 0049-711-865524 If you are not the intended recipient of this email, I apologise for my error and for any inconvenience caused. Could you please delete it and any attachment from your computer. A short message to the above email address with a subject line only with text - Incorrect Email Address - would be much appreciated. ___ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl Maphist mailing list Maphist@geo.uu.nl http://mailman.geo.uu.nl/mailman/listinfo/maphist
Re: [MapHist] John Melish's Map of Indiana
This is a MapHist list message (when you hit 'reply' you're replying to the whole list) o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + Oops, I should not have rushed last night. I meant to indicate the 1812 version (there was no 1816 version of that map). I got a bit careless there, and indicated that same 1812 link twice (and that 1812 issue is based on the 1804) for the first of those images from Abraham Bradley, Jr. Also, here is a more complete citation for the article mentioned, which does discuss Bradley's informational resources, at the close of the previous message: Caldwell, Larry and Buehler, Michael (2010). Picturing a networked nation: Abraham Bradley's landmark U.S. postal maps. The Portolan 77(spring): 7-25. ill. 54 endnotes. Rumsey does show a ca. 1809 version (also with the aberrant placement of Lake Michigan, as would be expected): http://www.davidrumsey.com/luna/servlet/detail/RUMSEY~8~1~31107~1150183:Map-of-the-United-States,-exhibitin. All of these are discussed in the article. If you do not subscribe to _The Portolan_, back issues are available: http://home.earthlink.net/~docktor/portolan_order.htm . Joel Kovarsky On 10/22/2010 11:19 PM, Joel Kovarsky wrote: This is a MapHist list message (when you hit 'reply' you're replying to the whole list) o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + This isn't a direct answer, and I'm not sure where Melish got his information, but that erroneous configuration for Lake Michigan also appeared in Arrowsmith's 1819 map of the United States: http://www.davidrumsey.com/luna/servlet/detail/RUMSEY~8~1~200355~3000292:A-Map-Of-The-United-States-of-North?sort=Pub_List_No_InitialSort%2CPub_Date%2CPub_List_No%2CSeries_No. The notes speculate that Bradley's postal map of the U.S. might have been a source: http://www.davidrumsey.com/luna/servlet/detail/RUMSEY~8~1~224~20038:Map-of-the-United-States,-Exhibitin. That particular 1816 issue of the map also shows the erroneous position of Lake Michigan, as does the 1812 version: http://www.davidrumsey.com/luna/servlet/detail/RUMSEY~8~1~224~20038:Map-of-the-United-States,-Exhibitin. I would assume Melish had access to some similar sources. The 1804 version of Bradley's map also shows similar features (see article by Caldwell and Buehler in the spring 2010 issue, no. 77, of _The Portolan_. Joel Kovarsky On 10/22/2010 2:41 PM, Howell, Monique wrote: This is a MapHist list message (when you hit 'reply' you're replying to the whole list) o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + Hello, I am looking for information regarding the erroneous placement of Lake Michigan in some of John Melish's early maps showing Indiana. Indiana was the first of his short lived individual maps of the states, done in 1817. This 1817 map shows Lake Michigan in the middle of the northern boundary of the state. He improved the map in 1819 and places Lake Michigan in the correct north-western corner of the state. Both of these maps show that the surveys were furnished by Burr Bradley, perhaps the error was his? I cannot find any literature about this correction and what led to him misplacing the lake in his earlier map. Does anyone know of an article that discusses this? If not I am also curious to hear your theories. The 1817 Map of Indiana was not the first or only time he had made this mistake. I also have an 1813 Melish map of the U.S., found in the front of his 1815 /Traveller's Directory, / which shows Lake Michigan dipping into Indiana right down the middle of the state. Thank you in advance Monique *** Monique Howell Librarian - Indiana Collection Indiana State Library mohow...@library.in.gov ___ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information:http://www.maphist.nl Maphist mailing list Maphist@geo.uu.nl http://mailman.geo.uu.nl/mailman/listinfo/maphist No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG -www.avg.com Version: 9.0.862 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3212 - Release Date: 10/22/10 02:34:00 -- Joel Kovarsky The Prime Meridian 1839 Clay Dr., Crozet, VA 22932 USA Phone: 434-823-5696 Email:t...@theprimemeridian.com Website:http://www.theprimemeridian.com ___ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the
[MapHist] Naval Medal 1628, with map of Americas
This is a MapHist list message (when you hit 'reply' you're replying to the whole list) o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + Pure and alone for carto historical purposes, here in the Netherlands a Naval Medal [1628] with map of Americas, Europe and Western Africa is being auctioned. The map projection shows the Americas with California as an island. On the other side showing the battle of Matanzas. An illustration of the medal can be found on page 274 275 of the auction catalogue http://www.schulman.nl/auction/cat334.pdf http://www.schulman.nl/auction/cat334.pdf Kunstpedia.org Curators of art knowledge http://www.kunstpedia.com/ www.kunstpedia.org Administration : Haansberg 19 4874 NJ Etten-Leur the Netherlands t. +31-76-5032797 f. +31-76-5032540 Skype b-meijer DISCLAMER The information in this message is confidentail and may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the adressee. Access to this message by anyone else is unauthorized. If you are not the intented recipient, any disclosure, copying or distribution of the message, or any action or omission taken by you in reliave on it, is prohibited and may be unlawful. Please immediately contact the sender or the postmaster if you have recieved this message in error. VOORWAARDEN De informatie in dit bericht is vertrouwelijk en persoonlijk. Het is alleen bestemd voor de geadresseerde. Als u niet de bedoelde ontvanger bent is inzage, kopieren, verspreiden, misbruik en dergelijke akties in welke vorm dan ook illegaal en derhalve verboden. Indien u per abuis de ontvanger van dit bericht bent neem dan direkt kontakt op met de afzender of met de postmaster. ___ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl Maphist mailing list Maphist@geo.uu.nl http://mailman.geo.uu.nl/mailman/listinfo/maphist
Re: [MapHist] Query: Arno Peters controversy
This is a MapHist list message (when you hit 'reply' you're replying to the whole list) o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + Thanks to Kit for the call to reply at the bibliographical help which moved Stefan to write to us. May be I had to count up one million before replying. I wanted just to point out, in a vivid manner, that the question from the technical point of view has nothing else to say and I wanted to suggest a new line of research: manipulation of masses, and social psychology. I would very like to know, for instance, whether the UN Organizations like Unicef asked to some learned person (Snyder, Robinson, et al.) what he thought about the new projection before adopting it! And what moved them to choose that projection. Anyway, from the list of interests of Stefan I see he is moving in the socio-political direction. FIne! As fa as to Italy there has been no particular attention from the Academic point of view, neither from the political one. I remember just a paper written in the early 90s in order to defend Mercator's projection against the attack by Peters and the attention paid by persons involved in ONG. I may ask to the Società Geografica Italiana whether it took part to the international debate. vladimiro Il giorno 23/ott/2010, alle ore 08.57, kitthe...@aol.com ha scritto: This is a MapHist list message (when you hit 'reply' you're replying to the whole list) o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + Dear Vladimiro While agreeing with everything you have written I do think we may have missed the point a little. My reply was to point out to / remind Stefan that there was at least one other name connected to this particular projection. I have no axe to grind with the projection per se. Secondly, there are a lot of people out here who are not learned (your bold type). I do classify myself as a lover of maps and an amateur collector and perhaps know a little more about these wonderful works of art than many, but I do not classify myself as learned as I still have much to learn. Thirdly, and most importantly, we have not given poor Stefan many sources which he can refer to which was his original appeal. (Sorry if I have missed any besides Joost's references to his father's work.) Maybe some of the learned community out there can give him some decent references. I do not think anyone wants to start up a pro-contra discussion here as I believe most readers are on your side. Best wishes to all MapHisters Kit This email has been sent to you by: Kit Batten Auerhahnweg 7 70499 Stuttgart Germany kitthe...@aol.com 0049-711-865524 If you are not the intended recipient of this email, I apologise for my error and for any inconvenience caused. Could you please delete it and any attachment from your computer. A short message to the above email address with a subject line only with text - Incorrect Email Address - would be much appreciated. ___ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl Maphist mailing list Maphist@geo.uu.nl http://mailman.geo.uu.nl/mailman/listinfo/maphist ___ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl Maphist mailing list Maphist@geo.uu.nl http://mailman.geo.uu.nl/mailman/listinfo/maphist
RE: [MapHist] Dr. A. Petermann's Mitteilungen... maps
This is a MapHist list message (when you hit 'reply' you're replying to the whole list) o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + Gilles (and John Cloud et al.): As I recall the original enquiry, it requested a lead to discover if there was a corpus of digitised images of the 'PGM' maps - not references to (old) articles and books. The best of the latter will be found in the reference I gave - and specifically to Jan Smits, who should be contacted (jan.sm...@kb.nl) direct. But, now feeling obliged to carry out a simple search myself, I have discovered that the 'PGM' or 'Mittheilungen aus Justus Perthes' geographischer Anstalt . . .' (1855-1894) - complete (?) with its maps - are to be found scanned and publicly accessible (Dank u wel, Universiteitsbibliotheek Gent!) direct. Or (my longer route) via www.maphistory.info/Webimages.html ; then click on (what was to me, an obvious starting point) the 'Europeana' site. Whether Gent University - or any other institution - has continued the scanning of the series I know not. Francis Herbert -Original Message- From: maphist-boun...@geo.uu.nl [mailto:maphist-boun...@geo.uu.nl] On Behalf Of Gilles Palsky Sent: 22 October 2010 22:25 To: Discussion group for map history Subject: Re: [MapHist] Dr. A. Petermann's Mitteilungen... maps This is a MapHist list message (when you hit 'reply' you're replying to the whole list) o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + A study in German was published in the PGM in 1978 : Stams, Werner: Die Kartographie in den ersten 30 Jahrgängen von Petermanns Geographischen Mitteilungen. In: Petermanns Geographische Mitteilungen, Vol. 122 (1978), pages 185-202, 271-284. It mentioned another index, older, by R. Bliss Classified index to the maps in Petermann's Geographische Mittheilungen, 1855-1881, Bulletin of Harvard University, no. 22-27, 1882-1884. A list comprising 1340 titles followed by a reference list of (a) personal names and (b) expeditions and surveys. Many lists (JB Harley would have ironized about that), but no scans. G. John Cloud john.cl...@noaa.gov a écrit : This is a MapHist list message (when you hit 'reply' you're replying to the whole list) o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + A thorough digital archives of the Petermann's maps would be a fabulous resource. I think at present there are only scattered sub-sets here and there. In addition to Jan Smits' carto-bibliography, see also: Demhardt, Dr. Imre J., 2006. Der Erde ein Gesicht geben. Petermanns Geographische Mitteilungen und die Entstehung der modernen Geographie in Deutschland (Giving Earth a Face. Petermann's Geographical Journal and the Emergence of Modern Geography in Germany).Gotha: Universität Erfurt. -- _ _ (o) (o) oOOO(_)OOOo--- John Cloud Geographer/Writer/Editor NOAA Central Library 1315 East-West Highway SSMC-3, 2nd Floor, E/OC4 Silver Spring, MD 20910 301-713-2607, ext. 126 john.cl...@noaa.gov aussi: Chez Cloud Urbanique 1915 Kalorama Rd. NW Apt. 603 Washington, DC 20009 202-277-4931 ___ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl Maphist mailing list Maphist@geo.uu.nl http://mailman.geo.uu.nl/mailman/listinfo/maphist -- Ce message a ete verifie par MailScanner pour des virus ou des polluriels et rien de suspect n'a ete trouve. -- Gilles Palsky Professeur, universite de Paris 1 Institut de Geographie 191 rue Saint-Jacques 75005 Paris -- Ce message a ete verifie par MailScanner pour des virus ou des polluriels et rien de suspect n'a ete trouve. ___ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl Maphist mailing list Maphist@geo.uu.nl http://mailman.geo.uu.nl/mailman/listinfo/maphist ___ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect
Re: [MapHist] Query: Arno Peters controversy
This is a MapHist list message (when you hit 'reply' you're replying to the whole list) o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + On 10/23/2010 5:06 AM, Vladimiro Valerio wrote: I wanted just to point out, in a vivid manner, that the question from the technical point of view has nothing else to say and I wanted to suggest a new line of research: manipulation of masses, and social psychology. As someone who is not all that learned (and not even a map person! ;-) I just wanted to say that I found Vladimiro's passionate post fascinating. Alas, I don't know beans about projection issues, so am happy enough to just follow along with anything that appears to question the colonialist legacy ... or that challenges the establishment visual culture with which I am (again, unthinkingly) most familiar. At any rate, I have a thumbnail of the Peters Projection map posted to http://www.she-philosopher.com/ib/topics/antipodist.html (see the last 3 entries in the right-hand sidebar), with accompanying link to a sales page for it at a favorite (left-leaning) activist group: the Syracuse Cultural Workers, whose organizational motto is: No matter what our attempts to inform, it is our ability to inspire that will turn the tides. FWIW, Syracuse Cultural Workers also sells the Hobo-Dyer Equal Area Map and the Upside Down World Map (for which, see additional links at the bottom of my Web page sidebar). The brief descriptions I give there of the 3 maps all come from the SCW catalog, and reflect the very sociocultural biases Vladimiro admonishes I suppose all this means that I'm going to have to update these sidebar captions one of these days ;( ... But there's no time for psychoanalyzing myself right now! I'm not supposed to be doing anything at the moment other than getting 3 websites ready to launch by the end of this month ... to which tasks I had best return forthwith! bg In haste, Deborah _ Deborah Taylor-Pearce d...@she-philosopher.com ___ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl Maphist mailing list Maphist@geo.uu.nl http://mailman.geo.uu.nl/mailman/listinfo/maphist
Re: [MapHist] Help with Ptolemaios Handbuch der Geographie
This is a MapHist list message (when you hit 'reply' you're replying to the whole list) o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + I have the book. Send me privately your list of places. vladimiro Il giorno 23/ott/2010, alle ore 21.55, Sorin Fortiu ha scritto: This is a MapHist list message (when you hit 'reply' you're replying to the whole list) o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + Dear List; I need badly some help; I do not find Alfred STÜCKELBERGER, Gerd GRAßHOFF, et al. (eds.), Ptolemaios Handbuch der Geographie, Griechisch-Deutsch, 2006, ISBN 3-7965-2148-7 in the libraries from Romania or Hungary. For an experiment, I would need 10 coordinates of some places as they are listed in this book. If there is a kind soul willing to help me, please contact me off list. Thank You all for any help, S o r i n F O R T I U http://www.banat.ro/academica.htm ___ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl Maphist mailing list Maphist@geo.uu.nl http://mailman.geo.uu.nl/mailman/listinfo/maphist ___ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl Maphist mailing list Maphist@geo.uu.nl http://mailman.geo.uu.nl/mailman/listinfo/maphist
