Re: [MapHist] Digital image copyright on websites
This is a MapHist list message (when you hit 'reply' you're replying to the whole list) o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + There is no general practice to consider here. In the U.S., at least, an image is considered copyrighted as soon as it is created -- that's the law, not practice. On 11/28/2010 8:42 AM, J. B. Post wrote: This is a MapHist list message (when you hit 'reply' you're replying to the whole list) o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + A few years back, there was a question on this list about copyright of reproductions/photographs of maps obviously in the public domain. The upshot was in UScopyright law, photographs and some other reproductions of graphic works are considered to be new artistic creations and the copyright is claimed on them, not on the original graphic work. I haven't looked at all that many websites with maps on them and was wondering if there is any sense if most claim copyright of their contents. This is not the same as copy protection which attempts to keep the images from being downloaded and is a technical thing, not a legal thing. Even if a site allows free downloading, it could still claim a copyright, even if only a general one for the site itself, intended as a blanket for the contents. Any sense on the general practice? JBP ___ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl Maphist mailing list Maphist@geo.uu.nl http://mailman.geo.uu.nl/mailman/listinfo/maphist -- -- David M. Lawrence| Home: (804) 559-9786 7471 Brook Way Court | Fax: (804) 559-9787 Mechanicsville, VA 23111 | Email: d...@fuzzo.com USA | http: http://fuzzo.com -- All drains lead to the ocean. -- Gill, Finding Nemo We have met the enemy and he is us. -- Pogo No trespassing 4/17 of a haiku -- Richard Brautigan ___ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl Maphist mailing list Maphist@geo.uu.nl http://mailman.geo.uu.nl/mailman/listinfo/maphist
RE: [MapHist] Digital image copyright on websites
This is a MapHist list message (when you hit 'reply' you're replying to the whole list) o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + My question was not one of legality or copyrightability, but whether most websites containing maps which members of this list might encounter have claimed a copyright. -Original Message- From: maphist-boun...@geo.uu.nl [mailto:maphist-boun...@geo.uu.nl] On Behalf Of David M. Lawrence Sent: Sunday, November 28, 2010 8:44 AM To: Discussion group for map history Subject: Re: [MapHist] Digital image copyright on websites There is no general practice to consider here. In the U.S., at least, an image is considered copyrighted as soon as it is created -- that's the law, not practice. On 11/28/2010 8:42 AM, J. B. Post wrote: This is a MapHist list message (when you hit 'reply' you're replying to the whole list) o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + A few years back, there was a question on this list about copyright of reproductions/photographs of maps obviously in the public domain. The upshot was in US copyright law, photographs and some other reproductions of graphic works are considered to be new artistic creations and the copyright is claimed on them, not on the original graphic work. I haven't looked at all that many websites with maps on them and was wondering if there is any sense if most claim copyright of their contents. This is not the same as copy protection which attempts to keep the images from being downloaded and is a technical thing, not a legal thing. Even if a site allows free downloading, it could still claim a copyright, even if only a general one for the site itself, intended as a blanket for the contents. Any sense on the general practice? JBP ___ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl Maphist mailing list Maphist@geo.uu.nl http://mailman.geo.uu.nl/mailman/listinfo/maphist -- -- David M. Lawrence| Home: (804) 559-9786 7471 Brook Way Court | Fax: (804) 559-9787 Mechanicsville, VA 23111 | Email: d...@fuzzo.com USA | http: http://fuzzo.com -- All drains lead to the ocean. -- Gill, Finding Nemo We have met the enemy and he is us. -- Pogo No trespassing 4/17 of a haiku -- Richard Brautigan ___ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl Maphist mailing list Maphist@geo.uu.nl http://mailman.geo.uu.nl/mailman/listinfo/maphist
Re: [MapHist] Digital image copyright on websites
This is a MapHist list message (when you hit 'reply' you're replying to the whole list) o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + On 11/28/2010 9:19 AM, J. B. Post wrote: but whether most websites containing maps which members of this list might encounter have claimed a copyright. This would nearly be a research project, if one were looking for a significant general answer, hence entailing scanning existing image sites for statements: http://maphistory.info/webimages.html . For some of the larger library sites with better cartobibliographic information (for example, see those mentioned herein: http://www.maphistory.info/SEARCHING%20FOR%20EARLY%20MAPS.pdf), there are often copyright or terms of use statements. Joel Kovarsky ___ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl Maphist mailing list Maphist@geo.uu.nl http://mailman.geo.uu.nl/mailman/listinfo/maphist
Re: [MapHist] Digital image copyright on websites
This is a MapHist list message (when you hit 'reply' you're replying to the whole list) o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + JBP, Until our map society web site went off line ~ 2 months ago (long story), all of our map image web pages contained a notice that the images were protected by copyright. I have received numerous requests for permission to use our map images, and granted all. I did find one case of someone using one of our images on products sold at Zazzle (he also had stolen images from the Hargrett Library's web site). It took about a week after I notified Zazzle for them to remove his account. Jay L. Jay Lester William P. Cumming Map Society ___ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl Maphist mailing list Maphist@geo.uu.nl http://mailman.geo.uu.nl/mailman/listinfo/maphist
Re: [MapHist] Digital image copyright on websites
This is a MapHist list message (when you hit 'reply' you're replying to the whole list) o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + Don, the answer is important enough to reply to the entire list. According to U.S. copyright law any creative work is copyrighted as soon as it is fixed in some tangible form -- so a photograph is copyrighted as soon as it is taken. A photograph of a map or other form of graphic may, however, be considered a derivative work which (unfortunately) is also covered under copyright law. Anyone wanting to publish a photograph of an original work may or may not need to obtain permission of the owner to the rights of the original work to publish the photograph. The law is very fuzzy on this point. Older works are generally in the public domain -- but nowadays it takes a ridiculously long time for a work to pass into the public domain under U.S. law -- which has tended to abuse the founders' intent that exclusive right to a work of art or invention shall be LIMITED. (Over the past 120 years or so, we have repeatedly extended the term of copyright so that it lasts nearly a century beyond the life of the author, whereas patent rights were extended to something like -- gasp! -- 17 years.) If you want to publish a photograph of a 300-year-old map, don't use a flash, but you should be able to publish the photograph without any copyright concerns. (Even under European law, copyright doesn't last forever, although it might as well given the lunatic length of copyright terms there.) You cannot (well, should not) publish someone else's photograph of that same work. Fair use does come into play here, but I really don't want to go there. Dave On 11/28/2010 9:31 AM, Donald Mcguirk wrote: David, I was interested in your responce on maphist. By your comment did you mean that an image is copyrighted to the date of its first creation (ex. a map dated 1700 is copyrighted at 1700) or that a photo reproduction of that 1700 map is copyrighted to the date that the photo was created? Thanks in advance for your clarification. Don McGuirk - Original Message - From: David M. Lawrenced...@fuzzo.com To: Discussion group for map historymaphist@geo.uu.nl Sent: Sunday, November 28, 2010 6:44:17 AM GMT -07:00 US/Canada Mountain Subject: Re: [MapHist] Digital image copyright on websites This is a MapHist list message (when you hit 'reply' you're replying to the whole list) o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + There is no general practice to consider here. In the U.S., at least, an image is considered copyrighted as soon as it is created -- that's the law, not practice. On 11/28/2010 8:42 AM, J. B. Post wrote: This is a MapHist list message (when you hit 'reply' you're replying to the whole list) o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o +   A few years back, there was a question on this list about copyright of reproductions/photographs of maps obviously in the public domain. The upshot was in US copyright law, photographs and some other reproductions of graphic works are considered to be new artistic creations and the copyright is claimed on them, not on the original graphic work. I haven’t looked at all that many websites with maps on them and was wondering if there is any sense if most claim copyright of their contents. This is not the same as “copy protection� which attempts to keep the images from being downloaded and is a technical thing, not a legal thing. Even if a site allows free downloading, it could still claim a copyright, even if only a general one for the site itself, intended as a blanket for the contents. Any sense on the general practice?  JBP  ___ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl Maphist mailing list Maphist@geo.uu.nl http://mailman.geo.uu.nl/mailman/listinfo/maphist -- -- David M. Lawrence| Home: (804) 559-9786 7471 Brook Way Court | Fax: (804) 559-9787 Mechanicsville, VA 23111 | Email: d...@fuzzo.com USA | http: http://fuzzo.com -- All drains lead to the ocean. -- Gill, Finding Nemo We have met the enemy and he is us. -- Pogo No trespassing 4/17 of a haiku -- Richard Brautigan ___ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University
Re: [MapHist] Digital image copyright on websites
This is a MapHist list message (when you hit 'reply' you're replying to the whole list) o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + In the early MapHist discussion that you mentioned (presumably the one that took place in October of 2009) there was at least one message noting the /Bridgeman Art Library v. Corel Corp./ case, in which the US District Court for the Southern District of New York ruled in 1999 that exact photographic copies of public domain images (e.g. of art works, but presumably this would also apply to maps) could _not_ be copyrighted. I have no idea whether this ruling has any current standing, but the actual ruling makes interesting reading. See the Wikipedia article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bridgeman_Art_Library_v._Corel_Corp. -- Jeremy On 11/28/2010 8:42 AM, J. B. Post wrote: This is a MapHist list message (when you hit 'reply' you're replying to the whole list) o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + A few years back, there was a question on this list about copyright of reproductions/photographs of maps obviously in the public domain. The upshot was in UScopyright law, photographs and some other reproductions of graphic works are considered to be new artistic creations and the copyright is claimed on them, not on the original graphic work. I haven't looked at all that many websites with maps on them and was wondering if there is any sense if most claim copyright of their contents. This is not the same as copy protection which attempts to keep the images from being downloaded and is a technical thing, not a legal thing. Even if a site allows free downloading, it could still claim a copyright, even if only a general one for the site itself, intended as a blanket for the contents. Any sense on the general practice? JBP ___ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl Maphist mailing list Maphist@geo.uu.nl http://mailman.geo.uu.nl/mailman/listinfo/maphist
Re: [MapHist] Digital image copyright on websites
This is a MapHist list message (when you hit 'reply' you're replying to the whole list) o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + Your question is somewhat irrelevant. Lets be clear -- according to U.S. law, you do not CLAIM copyright. If you create a work, copyright exists -- it is inherent in the act of creation. You may REGISTER a copyright, which gives you access to punitive damages in a lawsuit for copyright infringement. But registration does not affect whether or not you own copyright. Sure, Web sites can and should own copyright to their original content. (Keep in mind, though, that U.S. government sites are by definition in the public domain. Not everything posted on government Web sites is in the public domain, however. Only works that were created or commissioned by government agencies are.) If a Web publisher uses his original photos, those are by definition copyrighted by him -- no CLAIM needs to be made. If a publisher uses someone else's photos, they must either have bought the rights to that work, licensed the right to use that work, or they are probably illegally claiming someone else's rights as their own. Dave On 11/28/2010 9:19 AM, J. B. Post wrote: This is a MapHist list message (when you hit 'reply' you're replying to the whole list) o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + My question was not one of legality or copyrightability, but whether most websites containing maps which members of this list might encounter have claimed a copyright. -Original Message- From: maphist-boun...@geo.uu.nl [mailto:maphist-boun...@geo.uu.nl] On Behalf Of David M. Lawrence Sent: Sunday, November 28, 2010 8:44 AM To: Discussion group for map history Subject: Re: [MapHist] Digital image copyright on websites There is no general practice to consider here. In the U.S., at least, an image is considered copyrighted as soon as it is created -- that's the law, not "practice." On 11/28/2010 8:42 AM, J. B. Post wrote: This is a MapHist list message (when you hit 'reply' you're replying to the whole list) o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + o + A few years back, there was a question on this list about copyright of reproductions/photographs of maps obviously in the public domain. The upshot was in US copyright law, photographs and some other reproductions of graphic works are considered to be new artistic creations and the copyright is claimed on them, not on the original graphic work. I havent looked at all that many websites with maps on them and was wondering if there is any sense if most claim copyright of their contents. This is not the same as copy protection which attempts to keep the images from being downloaded and is a technical thing, not a legal thing. Even if a site allows free downloading, it could still claim a copyright, even if only a general one for the site itself, intended as a blanket for the contents. Any sense on the general practice? JBP ___ MapHist: E-mail discussion group on the history of cartography hosted by the Faculty of Geosciences, University of Utrecht. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Utrecht. The University of Utrecht does not take any responsibility for the views of the author. List Information: http://www.maphist.nl Maphist mailing list Maphist@geo.uu.nl http://mailman.geo.uu.nl/mailman/listinfo/maphist -- -- David M. Lawrence | Home: (804) 559-9786 7471 Brook Way Court | Fax: (804) 559-9787 Mechanicsville, VA 23111
