Re: [MI-L] Project Grande Terminated?
hi richard > I read that ArcGIS 9.2 is now using GDAL libaries. If that's true, it > seems like PostGIS should be near at hand. would indeed be a reason to start using ArcGIS :-))) ! ciao flavio ___ MapInfo-L mailing list MapInfo-L@lists.directionsmag.com http://www.directionsmag.com/mailman/listinfo/mapinfo-l
RE: [MI-L] Project Grande Terminated?
Hi Thomas > Not so. Manifold has a big commitment to using Oracle we looked many times into manifold ... never managed to convince any of us, despite all their constant "blubber" about being so much better then anybody else and being lots cheaper. and we do not see it anywhere here in europe with very few exceptions. seems not to get any foothold. ciao flavio ___ MapInfo-L mailing list MapInfo-L@lists.directionsmag.com http://www.directionsmag.com/mailman/listinfo/mapinfo-l
Re: [MI-L] Project Grande Terminated?
On 10/20/06, Flavio Hendry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: All there! Why does MapInfo not take PostGIS and/or MySQL MyGIS and plug them in? Free out-of-the-internet and easy to use! And no major overhead like with Oracle ... and it would be the only commercial desktop GIS doing that (as far as I know) ... I read that ArcGIS 9.2 is now using GDAL libaries. If that's true, it seems like PostGIS should be near at hand. Rich -- Richard Greenwood [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.greenwoodmap.com ___ MapInfo-L mailing list MapInfo-L@lists.directionsmag.com http://www.directionsmag.com/mailman/listinfo/mapinfo-l
Re: [MI-L] Project Grande Terminated?
On Fri, Oct 20, 2006 at 05:11:19PM +0200, Flavio Hendry wrote: > > Perhaps that multi-user geodatabase (similar to ArcSDE), that Doug > > Cubin asked for a couple of days ago. Imagine if we had that today, > > out-of-the-box, easy to use? > > All there! Why does MapInfo not take PostGIS and/or MySQL MyGIS and plug > them in? Free out-of-the-internet and easy to use! And no major overhead > like with Oracle ... and it would be the only commercial desktop GIS > doing that (as far as I know) ... Market size probably has a lot to do with that decision. But it sure looks to me that there are some very cool tools for MapInfo users in that direction! I expect that it's only a matter of time before somebody works out how to provide MapInfo features directly over an ODBC connection to a PostgreSQL/PostGIS database, but even without that there are good business reasons to look into it. I had no trouble connecting a PostgresSQL database to MapInfo, so I can now deploy a Internet-based multi-user database using MapInfo Pro in the front end. Also, with the PG scripting capability plus PostGIS/Geos extensions I'm even learning to do things I can't do in MapInfo, and can see generally how the spatial capability might be built in one day. I'd agree with you that there are a lot of FOSS database and GIS software tools that are useful now and getting better all the time. Wish I had more time to explore them! ___ MapInfo-L mailing list MapInfo-L@lists.directionsmag.com http://www.directionsmag.com/mailman/listinfo/mapinfo-l
RE: [MI-L] Project Grande Terminated?
>> Perhaps that multi-user geodatabase (similar to ArcSDE), that Doug >> Cubin asked for a couple of days ago. Imagine if we had that today, >> out-of-the-box, easy to use? > All there! Why does MapInfo not take PostGIS and/or > MySQL MyGIS and plug them in? Free out-of-the-internet > and easy to use! And no major overhead like with Oracle ... > and it would be the only commercial desktop GIS > doing that (as far as I know) ... Not so. Manifold has a big commitment to using Oracle, and storing data in its spatial and its suite of interfaces and formats. The 7x release (a couple of months old, now), which is available in both 32-bit and 64-bit versions, is 'Oracle-enabled'. After all, Oracle 10ex is for free and is adequate for many of the people who use GIS and subscribe to this list. IL Thomas GeoSciSoft - Perth, Australia ciao flav ___ MapInfo-L mailing list MapInfo-L@lists.directionsmag.com http://www.directionsmag.com/mailman/listinfo/mapinfo-l -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.408 / Virus Database: 268.13.7/488 - Release Date: 19/10/2006 ___ MapInfo-L mailing list MapInfo-L@lists.directionsmag.com http://www.directionsmag.com/mailman/listinfo/mapinfo-l
RE: [MI-L] Project Grande Terminated?
> I hear from many others that the GUI of .NET applications > can be quite slow, where you can even see the visual items > being drawed on the screen. And I guess a GIS application > would be especially prone to such a problem. No, not so. The only area (but it is very important) where a GIS or any other graphics-intensive application (eg, a game) would be slowed, is of course the screen. But that's why we have GPUs (specialised microprocessors or graphics processing units) that must be a special area of attention. The GUI itself is no slower than Win32, and certainly very much richer. And what about the "glass" and overall graphics system on Vista? But that's all OT. IL Thomas GeoSciSoft - Perth, Australia ___ MapInfo-L mailing list MapInfo-L@lists.directionsmag.com http://www.directionsmag.com/mailman/listinfo/mapinfo-l
Re: [MI-L] Project Grande Terminated?
> Perhaps that multi-user geodatabase (similar to ArcSDE), that Doug > Cubin asked for a couple of days ago. Imagine if we had that today, > out-of-the-box, easy to use? All there! Why does MapInfo not take PostGIS and/or MySQL MyGIS and plug them in? Free out-of-the-internet and easy to use! And no major overhead like with Oracle ... and it would be the only commercial desktop GIS doing that (as far as I know) ... ciao flav ___ MapInfo-L mailing list MapInfo-L@lists.directionsmag.com http://www.directionsmag.com/mailman/listinfo/mapinfo-l
Re: [MI-L] Project Grande Terminated?
In 2002 MapInfo has probably looked at estimated costs and benefits from taking a number of strategic decisions and choose to do "Project Grande". At this point (2006) there has been a significant sunken cost, so either they still expect more very significant cost before they have something working or the benefits do no longer seem so great compared to what they have today. Also, by bringing out an almost new platform (which would only have the TAB file in common with existing MI Pro), MI Corp. introduces a big risk of loosing customers to other platforms. In 2002 ArcGIS was still a very new product, so at that point it would have been easier to compete against it and speed of modern computers has also made ArcGIS fell less slow than it used to do. An interesting question is: What will they do instead? Do a 64-bit version? Keep improving the 32-bit version for many years? Restart the Grande project in a couple of years? Another question is what other project MI Corp could have started in 2002? Perhaps that multi-user geodatabase (similar to ArcSDE), that Doug Cubin asked for a couple of days ago. Imagine if we had that today, out-of-the-box, easy to use? Lot's of Friday afternoon guessing :-) Regards Uffe - Original Message - From: "Flavio Hendry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Mats Elfström" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; ; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, October 20, 2006 1:53 PM Subject: Re: Sv: Fw: [MI-L] Project Grande Terminated? Hi Mats / Uffe I completely agree with Mats: SAD! And I do not think there would be too many people crying after ancient outdated MapBasic (what an excuse, it's like: "it still must run on windows 95" ...). ESRI did the right thing: if you do it new, do it right and do not take all this old legacy stuff along. Uffe: I did not see anything ever, that a .NET based MapInfo would get as slow as ArcGIS (Bos is right, it's more of a format issue) ... Demos of Grande I have seen, very at the usual MapInfo speed. You must mix it up with Java, that is the slow "lots coffee drinking software" (their logo really matches :-) ...). That MapInfo does not do anything Mit freundlichem Gruss / Best Regards Flavio Hendry TYDAC Web-Site: http://www.tydac.ch TYDAC MapServer: http://www.mapserver.ch Mit freundlichen Gruessen / Kind Regards mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TYDAC AG - http://www.tydac.ch Geographic Information Solutions Luternauweg 12 -- CH-3006 Bern Tel +41 (0)31 368 0180 - Fax +41 (0)31 368 1860 ___ MapInfo-L mailing list MapInfo-L@lists.directionsmag.com http://www.directionsmag.com/mailman/listinfo/mapinfo-l
Re: [MI-L] Project Grande Terminated?
Hi Uffe I would not have thought this was a contributing factor. In fact I would have the thought the graphics capability of .NET was one of the original drivers to start the .NET Project Grande. The old Windows API calls are presented at a higher more usable level but because of DirectX support are if anything more performant than the older API calls which did not use DirectX. For example raster rotation is a doddle in .NET but was a few weeks work using older APIs!. I know its a "hobby horse" of mine and will generate a few groans but the speed would not drop to that of Arc because of the native TAB format and the RTREE index. Even if you use inefficient VB5 calls to draw the graphics the speed is fine because you are only reading and drawing the "onscreen" vectors - and .NET is faster than those VB5 calls. One of the MI jewels. Perhaps now more resources can go into taking the TAB format to 64 bit!? Regards Bob MapsByDesign.co.uk - Original Message - From: "Uffe Kousgaard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "'Mapinfo-L'" Sent: Friday, October 20, 2006 10:55 AM Subject: Re: [MI-L] Project Grande Terminated? It is quite some time I saw these demos and they were based on rather small datasets and very limited functionality in the user interface. I hear from many others that the GUI of .NET applications can be quite slow, where you can even see the visual items being drawed on the screen. And I guess a GIS application would be especially prone to such a problem. But a few more details from Moshe Binyamin would be interesting. Regards Uffe - Original Message - From: "SCISOFT" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "'Uffe Kousgaard'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "'Mapinfo-L'" Sent: Friday, October 20, 2006 11:42 AM Subject: RE: [MI-L] Project Grande Terminated? Uffe I haven't seen PG demos run - was it so slow? .NET isn't inherently slow. Was it the panning and screen updating, perhaps? IL Thomas GeoSciSoft - Perth, Australia -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Uffe Kousgaard Sent: Friday, October 20, 2006 4:10 PM To: Mapinfo-L Subject: Re: [MI-L] Project Grande Terminated? Dear all, My guess is MapInfo Corp. stopped the project because we could have ended up with something even slower than ArcGIS. That would have been a disaster for the product. The existing user interface isn't that bad, so you have to look at pro's and con's. Remember the grass isn't always greener on the other side, once you get there. Let's hope they start working on a 64-bit native version instead of going the slow .NET route. Perhaps even with some of the desired improvements included. As a developer of 3rd party add-ons for MapInfo (RouteFinder in particular), this also has the implication we can spend our resources on adding new functionality in future versions instead of rewriting code. And a big thanks to Moshe Binyamin for letting us know, what is going on. Kind regards Uffe Kousgaard www.routeware.dk ___ MapInfo-L mailing list MapInfo-L@lists.directionsmag.com http://www.directionsmag.com/mailman/listinfo/mapinfo-l ___ MapInfo-L mailing list MapInfo-L@lists.directionsmag.com http://www.directionsmag.com/mailman/listinfo/mapinfo-l
Re: [MI-L] Project Grande Terminated?
It is quite some time I saw these demos and they were based on rather small datasets and very limited functionality in the user interface. I hear from many others that the GUI of .NET applications can be quite slow, where you can even see the visual items being drawed on the screen. And I guess a GIS application would be especially prone to such a problem. But a few more details from Moshe Binyamin would be interesting. Regards Uffe - Original Message - From: "SCISOFT" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "'Uffe Kousgaard'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "'Mapinfo-L'" Sent: Friday, October 20, 2006 11:42 AM Subject: RE: [MI-L] Project Grande Terminated? Uffe I haven't seen PG demos run - was it so slow? .NET isn't inherently slow. Was it the panning and screen updating, perhaps? IL Thomas GeoSciSoft - Perth, Australia -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Uffe Kousgaard Sent: Friday, October 20, 2006 4:10 PM To: Mapinfo-L Subject: Re: [MI-L] Project Grande Terminated? Dear all, My guess is MapInfo Corp. stopped the project because we could have ended up with something even slower than ArcGIS. That would have been a disaster for the product. The existing user interface isn't that bad, so you have to look at pro's and con's. Remember the grass isn't always greener on the other side, once you get there. Let's hope they start working on a 64-bit native version instead of going the slow .NET route. Perhaps even with some of the desired improvements included. As a developer of 3rd party add-ons for MapInfo (RouteFinder in particular), this also has the implication we can spend our resources on adding new functionality in future versions instead of rewriting code. And a big thanks to Moshe Binyamin for letting us know, what is going on. Kind regards Uffe Kousgaard www.routeware.dk ___ MapInfo-L mailing list MapInfo-L@lists.directionsmag.com http://www.directionsmag.com/mailman/listinfo/mapinfo-l
RE: [MI-L] Project Grande Terminated?
Uffe I haven't seen PG demos run - was it so slow? .NET isn't inherently slow. Was it the panning and screen updating, perhaps? IL Thomas GeoSciSoft - Perth, Australia -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Uffe Kousgaard Sent: Friday, October 20, 2006 4:10 PM To: Mapinfo-L Subject: Re: [MI-L] Project Grande Terminated? Dear all, My guess is MapInfo Corp. stopped the project because we could have ended up with something even slower than ArcGIS. That would have been a disaster for the product. The existing user interface isn't that bad, so you have to look at pro's and con's. Remember the grass isn't always greener on the other side, once you get there. Let's hope they start working on a 64-bit native version instead of going the slow .NET route. Perhaps even with some of the desired improvements included. As a developer of 3rd party add-ons for MapInfo (RouteFinder in particular), this also has the implication we can spend our resources on adding new functionality in future versions instead of rewriting code. And a big thanks to Moshe Binyamin for letting us know, what is going on. Kind regards Uffe Kousgaard www.routeware.dk ___ MapInfo-L mailing list MapInfo-L@lists.directionsmag.com http://www.directionsmag.com/mailman/listinfo/mapinfo-l
Re: [MI-L] Project Grande Terminated?
Dear all, My guess is MapInfo Corp. stopped the project because we could have ended up with something even slower than ArcGIS. That would have been a disaster for the product. The existing user interface isn't that bad, so you have to look at pro's and con's. Remember the grass isn't always greener on the other side, once you get there. Let's hope they start working on a 64-bit native version instead of going the slow .NET route. Perhaps even with some of the desired improvements included. As a developer of 3rd party add-ons for MapInfo (RouteFinder in particular), this also has the implication we can spend our resources on adding new functionality in future versions instead of rewriting code. And a big thanks to Moshe Binyamin for letting us know, what is going on. Kind regards Uffe Kousgaard www.routeware.dk - Original Message - From: "Mats Elfström" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, October 20, 2006 8:57 AM Subject: Sv: Fw: [MI-L] Project Grande Terminated? Hi All! This was sad news. Perhaps not for those who make a living on legacy MapInfo use and programming, but I really thought it was time to move on to new vistas (unintentional pun). My chief concern, and the most promising thing about Project Grande is the new user interface. With the new layer control, tabbed windows and map layout templates, I really felt that MapInfo took a giant leap to catch up with the competition, perhaps even overtaking them in some aspects. From what I hear now, this will probably never be. We will for the 'foreseeable future' be stuck with a GUI which does not quite meet today's standards. I will refrain from lamenting further, but I am inclined to agree with the lister who the other day sadly remarked that he or she had to, from a professional standpoint, recommend ArcGIS/ArcView in favor of MapInfo to some clients. Best regards, Mats.E ___ MapInfo-L mailing list MapInfo-L@lists.directionsmag.com http://www.directionsmag.com/mailman/listinfo/mapinfo-l
Re: [MI-L] Project Grande Terminated?
Hi All, On a similar note, does anyone know if I can use C# (which is .NET as far as I know) to connect to MapInfo for the integrated mapping. I've just decided to look into C# as a programming language, and I've noticed a stark resemblence to JAVA. In either case, I'm a bit of a beginner and don't know how to accomplish this. Any Help? Don Mitchell. Message: 3 Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2006 16:15:18 -0600 From: Bill Thoen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [MI-L] Project Grande Terminated? To: mapinfo-l@lists.directionsmag.com Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I heard through the grapevine that the MapInfo Pro .NET effort just got whacked today! The new .NET stuff is going into MapXtreme, which will be able to be licensed on the desktop, but that new releases of MI Pro are still going to be programmable by MapBasic and that MapBasic development will continue for the foreseeable future. I guess this means that we MB developers will still be able to afford the fancy cars, palatial mansions and Hollywood lifestyles we have become accustomed to... (heh!) Does anyone else here have any more details about this yet? I also heard something about a VB.NET interface to MapInfo, but I don't know what that means yet. - Bill Thoen ___ MapInfo-L mailing list MapInfo-L@lists.directionsmag.com http://www.directionsmag.com/mailman/listinfo/mapinfo-l
