Re: [libreoffice-marketing] LibreOffice download page: updating the text

[Regis Perdreau]

Hi,

Things evolve quickly, maybe some decisions need some refresh !
I have always seen this web page from version 5-6,
Some feedback should be appreciated. Is it this page still relevant ?
It's not clear for everyone that it's a community version, and you can't
easily ask
a backport of some bug fix, for example.

Regards,

Régis Perdreau



Le mer. 12 juin 2024 à 16:55, Italo Vignoli  a écrit :

> Although we respect every opinion, I would leave marketing decisions to
> people who have some marketing experience, and not to everyone (because
> marketing is a profession as much as software development, and I avoid
> to make comments to development decisions exactly because I know that I
> am not competent in that area).
>
> Of course, you are free to deploy the LibreOffice version you prefer,
> but this doesn't mean that your judgement is absolute and is valid for
> millions of users worlwide. Normal users, i.e. over 98% of all users,
> are scared by technical jargon and are not able to recognize a bug from
> a feature. We have to communicate to these users, and not to developers
> who perfectly know how to manage the software they use.
>
> So, with 42 years of marketing profession under my belt, I am rather
> tired to see people without any marketing understanding making comments
> about marketing decisions. We leave developemnt decisions to developers,
> please leave marketing decision to marketers.
>
> On 12/06/24 16:22, Justin Luth wrote:
> > I completely disagree with your definition of "stable". Stable in this
> > context means "it works just as good (or better) with my existing
> > documents as the version of LO that I want to upgrade from". It means no
> > regressions, no crashing, no surprises. It does not mean "no new
> > development" since nothing on the download page has "new development" in
> > it. This is important because EVERYTHING about the download page
> > revolves around the issue of whether one version is "more stable" than
> > the other version, and is the whole reason why people should chose
> > between "the older" and "the newer" version.
> >
> > FRESH is still only suitable for early adopters.  24.2 will only be
> > suitable for "everyone" when it reaches STILL status. (For me
> > personally, I don't even consider STILL to be stable and won't deploy it
> > until it has reach the last planned point release.) [I see that you have
> > dropped the FRESH/STILL wording, but the underlying concept is still
> > 100% valid.]
> >
> > By removing "early adopter", you actually confuse the issue, because now
> > there really is no distinction between what FRESH and STILL mean.
> >
> > It shouldn't be that hard for people to choose. Use the STILL version if
> > you just want to "do work". Use the FRESH version if you want to help
> > the community improve the product by testing and bug reporting.  It
> > doesn't get much clearer than the current "If you're a technology
> > enthusiast, early adopter or power user, this version is for you!". You
> > can only be confused about that if you don't know what an enthusiast or
> > an early adopter is. FRESH is for people who want to "Get Involved".
> > STILL is for people who want to "take".
> >
> > If you change the wording now, you will just confuse the issue in a
> > month, when 24.2.5 moves into STILL status, and 24.8 becomes the FRESH
> > version. Are you going to imply that 24.8.0 will be "ideal for everyone
> > and not just early adopters"? I certainly hope not.
> >
> > You need to get out of marketing mode. People are correct to believe
> > that 24.2 is "not stable" yet. You shouldn't be afraid to acknowledge
> > that. And until you acknowledge that, you will continue to make it
> > difficult for people to "decide" which of the two options to chose from.
> >
> > Justin
> >
> > On 6/12/24 8:51 AM, Mike Saunders wrote:
> >> Hi everyone,
> >>
> >> Check out the two boxes on the download page, for (currently) the
> >> LibreOffice 24.2 and 7.6 branches:
> >>
> >> https://www.libreoffice.org/download/download-libreoffice/
> >>
> >> We've heard from users on social media and at our info@ and download@
> >> addresses that they're confused which version to choose, or believe
> >> the 24.2 branch isn't stable etc. Obviously both branches are stable
> >> (in the sense that they don't change radically, and only receive bug
> >> and security fixes -- no new features in the middle of the branch).
> >>
> >> So let's look at updating the text for clarity! My initial suggestion:
> >>
> >>
> >> Newer branch (currently 24.2): The very latest version, with lots of
> >> new features and improvements.
> >>
> >> Older branch (currently 7.6): Our previous release, which we are still
> >> supporting. For business deployments, we strongly recommend getting
> >> long-term supported versions from our ecosystem.
> >>
> >>
> >> What do you think? Bear in mind that we want to keep the text short
> >> and snappy here!
> >>
> >
> --
> Italo Vignoli - it...@vignoli.org
> 

[libreoffice-marketing] Fosdem

[Regis Perdreau]

Hi,

I have reviewed the Fosdem list of developer rooms here :
There are no Officesuite rooms.
Did TDF ask for a booth this year ?

Regards,

Régis Perdreau

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Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Excel World Championship - something similar for LibreOffice?

[Regis Perdreau]

Hi Mike,

Yes, i think we have to think of this.
I'm interested to participate to a group if anybody want to think about it.

Regards

Régis Perdreau



Le ven. 4 août 2023 à 11:17, Mike Saunders <
mike.saund...@documentfoundation.org> a écrit :

> Hi everyone,
>
> In the marketing Telegram group, John pointed us to this:
>
>
> https://www.theverge.com/2023/8/3/23817220/excel-esports-espn-the-ocho-championship-start-time-watch
>
> Quite a fun idea! Maybe we could do something similar with LibreOffice?
> Obviously, we have pretty limited resources, but perhaps something where
> LibreOffice users show us (via screenshots or videos) the cool things
> they're doing with Calc, and then we do a little competition where
> people/TDF members rate them for the best.
>
> Let us know your ideas!
>
> --
> Mike Saunders, Marketing and Community Coordinator
> The Document Foundation
>
> --
> To unsubscribe e-mail to: marketing+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org
> Problems?
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[libreoffice-marketing] Editorial line

[Regis Perdreau]

Hi,

I want to know is there a document which sum up the editorial line of the
document foundation ?

Regards,

Régis Perdreau

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Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: [libreoffice-design] Moving to LibreOffice 8?

[Regis Perdreau]

So, I agree with the proposal. L8 could be seen as a new start and not an
achievement... new developers mean new functionalities, evolving
organization. I think we can build something around that. Marketed as the
mix of different knowledge as distinguishing elements.

Regards,

Régis

Le ven. 7 avr. 2023 à 00:14, Italo Vignoli  a écrit :

> I have written that developers have a different mindset from marketing
> people. I have never said that developers are dumb people, and I have
> never even thought this.
>
> On 06/04/23 23:45, Regis Perdreau wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > So if i understand correctly, developers are dumb people, talking only to
> > its computer, and marketer have the privilege to speak to real user...
> > Well, all the day, i speak to real user, and all say that marketers talk
> > non sense about Microsoft compatibility...
> > I wonder how to solve daily cognitive dissonnance
> > *
> > <
> https://context.reverso.net/traduction/anglais-francais/cognitive+dissonance
> >*
> > Just kidding
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Régis Perdreau
> >
> >
> >
> > Le jeu. 6 avr. 2023 à 23:00, Gustavo Buzzatti Pacheco <
> gbpach...@gmail.com>
> > a écrit :
> >
> >> Hi, Nigel, Ben, Eyal, all!
> >>
> >>   Let me add some comments. :)
> >>
> >>   For sure, the current approach is a requirement for our internal
> >> development organization, as Ben noted. Also, it was really important in
> >> the first years of LibreOffice/TDF, when we used it to demonstrate we
> were
> >> ahead of Apache OpenOffice for the users and the strong
> project/community
> >> we were building.
> >>
> >>   On the other hand, for the current moment of LibreOffice as a project
> and
> >> product, I think we can do more or different things. Nigel wrote
> >> exactly what I mean about 'boring' from the user perspective: most of
> the
> >> users don't care about minor changes.
> >>
> >>   So, I think, now, we should decide about releases with a Marketing
> >> perspective and the number 8 could be a first step to do it, even
> without
> >> big changes.
> >>
> >>   Could it mean we will do a marketing trick?
> >>
> >>   I think no, because we will be transparent with our users as we always
> >> have been. If the release won't have big improvements, we won't talk
> about
> >> big improvements.
> >>
> >>   Why release a version without big improvements?
> >>
> >>   That is the other point: I don't think we should focus only on big
> code
> >> improvements to use major version numbers (or even version names). We
> >> aren't only a product. We are a project and community. Indeed, the
> released
> >> product is our final work but a major version can also be used to spread
> >> (or celebrate) the maturity of the product/project/community. This is a
> >> different approach than paid software/non FLOSS. This is what I mean
> with
> >> consolidation.
> >>
> >>
> >> On Thu, Apr 6, 2023 at 8:22 AM Nigel Verity 
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Hi Gustavo
> >>>
> >>> This is a very good point.
> >>>
> >>> If I see that some software I use regularly has gone from 7.5 to 7.6,
> >>> say, I wouldn't rush to upgrade unless I knew it fixed a problem that
> >>> affected me. I'm pretty sure that I would upgrade from 7.5 to to 8.0
> far
> >>> more quickly, if for no other reason that the psychological one of
> wanting
> >>> to be using what my head tells me must be an improvement over my
> current
> >>> version.
> >>>
> >>> Of course release notes are available to determine what really has
> >>> changed but I rather suspect that most users never read them.
> >>>
> >>> The discussion of the different motivators for development and
> marketing
> >>> people is very interesting. When I was a developer neither I nor
> anybody in
> >>> my teams was ever let anywhere near sales activities - and I think for
> very
> >>> good reasons.
> >>>
> >>> Cheers
> >>>
> >>> Nige
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> * LibreOffice - Free and open source office suite: LibreOffice Website
> >>> <https://www.libreoffice.org/> *
> >>> * Respects your privacy, and gives you back control over your data*
> >>> --
> >&g

Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: [libreoffice-design] Moving to LibreOffice 8?

[Regis Perdreau]

Hi all,

So if i understand correctly, developers are dumb people, talking only to
its computer, and marketer have the privilege to speak to real user...
Well, all the day, i speak to real user, and all say that marketers talk
non sense about Microsoft compatibility...
I wonder how to solve daily cognitive dissonnance
*
*
Just kidding

Cheers,
Régis Perdreau



Le jeu. 6 avr. 2023 à 23:00, Gustavo Buzzatti Pacheco 
a écrit :

> Hi, Nigel, Ben, Eyal, all!
>
>  Let me add some comments. :)
>
>  For sure, the current approach is a requirement for our internal
> development organization, as Ben noted. Also, it was really important in
> the first years of LibreOffice/TDF, when we used it to demonstrate we were
> ahead of Apache OpenOffice for the users and the strong project/community
> we were building.
>
>  On the other hand, for the current moment of LibreOffice as a project and
> product, I think we can do more or different things. Nigel wrote
> exactly what I mean about 'boring' from the user perspective: most of the
> users don't care about minor changes.
>
>  So, I think, now, we should decide about releases with a Marketing
> perspective and the number 8 could be a first step to do it, even without
> big changes.
>
>  Could it mean we will do a marketing trick?
>
>  I think no, because we will be transparent with our users as we always
> have been. If the release won't have big improvements, we won't talk about
> big improvements.
>
>  Why release a version without big improvements?
>
>  That is the other point: I don't think we should focus only on big code
> improvements to use major version numbers (or even version names). We
> aren't only a product. We are a project and community. Indeed, the released
> product is our final work but a major version can also be used to spread
> (or celebrate) the maturity of the product/project/community. This is a
> different approach than paid software/non FLOSS. This is what I mean with
> consolidation.
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 6, 2023 at 8:22 AM Nigel Verity 
> wrote:
>
>> Hi Gustavo
>>
>> This is a very good point.
>>
>> If I see that some software I use regularly has gone from 7.5 to 7.6,
>> say, I wouldn't rush to upgrade unless I knew it fixed a problem that
>> affected me. I'm pretty sure that I would upgrade from 7.5 to to 8.0 far
>> more quickly, if for no other reason that the psychological one of wanting
>> to be using what my head tells me must be an improvement over my current
>> version.
>>
>> Of course release notes are available to determine what really has
>> changed but I rather suspect that most users never read them.
>>
>> The discussion of the different motivators for development and marketing
>> people is very interesting. When I was a developer neither I nor anybody in
>> my teams was ever let anywhere near sales activities - and I think for very
>> good reasons.
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> Nige
>>
>>
>> * LibreOffice - Free and open source office suite: LibreOffice Website
>>  *
>> * Respects your privacy, and gives you back control over your data*
>> --
>> *From:* Gustavo Buzzatti Pacheco 
>> *Sent:* 05 April 2023 22:05
>> *To:* TDF Devs ; TDF Marketing <
>> marketing@global.libreoffice.org>; TDF Design <
>> des...@global.libreoffice.org>
>> *Subject:* Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: [libreoffice-design] Moving
>> to LibreOffice 8?
>>
>> Hi Eyal, all!
>>
>>  I also respectfully disagree with you on some points. ;D
>>
>>  I like the idea to move to 8, even with no big technical innovation (if
>> we
>> have, for sure it will be better).
>>
>>  IMHO, long sequences of minor releases (7.6, in the current case) are
>> getting boring and not important for the users (for both enterprise and
>> individual profiles).
>>
>>  I'm not saying that we should embrace the Firefox approach, but thinking
>> about Italo's idea (8 <-> infinite), I guess the message of this version
>> could be consolidation, not exactly innovation.
>>
>> Best
>> Gustavo
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 28, 2023 at 4:23 AM Eyal Rozenberg  wrote:
>>
>> > I respectfully disagree with Italo.
>> >
>> > First, about the "frame of reference". In my opinion, decisions such as
>> > major version number bumping are not, first and foremost, marketing
>> > decisions. That is a _consideration_, since the version number is
>> > declarative than technical. But - such an action should be "truthful"
>> > before being "marketable".
>> >
>> > It is more important, in my opinion, that users and potential users
>> > receive trustworthy signaling from the project - not just w.r.t. version
>> > numbers, but generally - than for the media to get a gimmick for
>> coverage.
>> >
>> > A second point is that bumping a version number without a major
>> > innovation moves you a few more steps into the category of, say, Firefox
>> > and such, where versions just increase automatically with no meaning

Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Comments to Proposals

[Regis Perdreau]

Hi,

The problem is the cultural border with the community word , not sure it
has exactly the same meaning in every language.
"Classic" or "Standard" can mean in french "old fashion" "basic"...These
words were put so many times next to tech products to suggest it as an "end
of life" product without explicit talk.

Problem is you want to "educate" with a traditional way that marketing uses
to influence with a positive concept without being explicit.
if we need money, it's the case, say it clearly, i think it's not a taboo
in the enterprise world...
Say "Standard Version funded by the enterprise community"
or
"Cooperative Edition funded by the enterprise community", a kind of
official consortium.
and a link/button "How to take part"
Every enterprise understands what it is and what to do.

Cheers,

Régis Perdreau



Le mar. 10 nov. 2020 à 02:41, Marc Paré  a écrit :

> Hi Italo,
>
> Le 2020-11-09 à 17 h 52, Italo Vignoli a écrit :
> > First of all, thanks for the proposals, although most of them are still
> > focusing on community members and not on end users. Sorry, but the label
> > must not please community members but educate - or help to educate - the
> > enterprises who are ignoring the concept of giving back to open source
> > projects in order to make the projects self-sustainable (in a way or
> > another, where the another is a plethora of forks backed each one by one
> > company, which is exactly the model we decided not to implement when we
> > launched LibreOffice). So, this is not a self-reassurance exercise for
> > community members, but a product positioning effort.
>
> I find this a little confusing. Your October 26th note to the marketing
> team read:
>
> "1. Product Label for the community supported version provided by TDF
> (i.e. Personal or Community or other proposals)
> "
>
> Could you explain how "Community" has now been dropped from the list or
> potential labels?
>
> From the way you describe in the above paragraph, also confusing. So, it
> sounds like the LibreOffice Enterprise version will be the same for all
> ecosystems companies?
> So, for example, the desktop version of Collabora will be identical to CIB
> desktop version? As will the online version of LibreOffice online?
>
>
> >
> > So, the proposals which can be included in the list are Sophie's
> > "CREATIVE" and Marco's "STANDARD" and "DESKTOP", as they provide several
> > options in term of communications. All other proposals cannot be used as
> > a basis for educating enterprises by exerting some moral suasion, as the
> > concept cannot be associated to the label.
> >
> > Also, the name of the product release by ecosystem companies cannot be
> > decided by community members. Some of the companies use the "powered by"
> > concept but other do not, and the decision about the product naming is
> > theirs. This is the reason why there is a LibreOffice Enterprise.
> Your October 26 note to the marketing teams read:
>
> "
>
> 3. LibreOffice Enterprise label
> 2.1 Marketing will collect ideas and suggestions about the use of the
> ingredient brand by November 10, and then will summarize them in a guide
> 2.2 Board will comment, update and approve the guide by November 25
> TOPICS TO DISCUSS
> 1. LibreOffice Enterprise label
> 2. Who should use it and where (i.e. just on products, products and
> marketing materials, other places)
> "
>
> Also confusing. Were you not looking for opinions with regards to the
> enterprise label?
>
> I believe that there is a flaw in this approach. I don't believe that you
> will move people by some artificial moral suasion that, should you find it
> not work in a couple of years, then, to have it reopen to try another
> label. IMO, having a more believable label that fits each group should be
> what the project look to offer. If the label does not signify a sense of
> belonging to the membership but rather hint more that the "real" software
> to download is that of an ecosystem product, then you run the risk of
> hinting that membership work is being appraised more of lower quality. I
> believe people will hold value more to an open project that speaks plainly
> to its membership. This would not prevent the LibreOffice community to
> promote and support the ecosystem with added value marketing and publicity.
>
> I believe you are giving too little credit to the label "Community" and am
> a little surprised at how fast this label or any other would be dismissed
> without membership input or vote given the parameters given at the outset -
> to be honest, I would have still suggested "Community" regardless. The
> proof that many organizations have travelled this road is that there is a
> great amount of open source projects where they are supporting their
> ecosystem partner with "Community" - "Enterprise" labels. Searching on
> "Community" brings back multitudes of hits on these labels ... there must
> be a reason why this there are so many frequent mentions and why it seems
> to be successful.
>
> 

Re: [libreoffice-marketing] MARKETING PLAN: Some Proposals

[Regis Perdreau]

I propose LibreOffice Dynamic Community Edition



Régis Perdreau



Le lun. 9 nov. 2020 à 19:21, Telesto  a écrit :

> LibreOffice Tech Edition [Technology/Technical/ Technology Preview]
> LibreOffice Free Edition
> LibreOffice Engineering Edition
> LibreOffice Frontrunner Edition
>
> Basic also feels limited. Classic sounds old.
> Community/Personal are not it
> Rolling doesn't sound well (still think it should be mentioned
> somewhere; but not as edition phrase)
>
> --
> About position of the edition text: title bar, about box, start center,
> artwork etc.
> No strong opinion here; as long as they as long as it blends in. Nice
> font, font color etc.
>
>
> Op 9-11-2020 om 16:38 schreef sophi:
> > Hi Italo, all,
> > Le 09/11/2020 à 16:04, Italo Vignoli a écrit :
> >> So far, I have not participated to the discussion, hoping that this
> >> could help others in pushing forward their proposals. Unfortunately,
> >> this has not happened, so I am trying to share some thoughts and
> >> proposals for the following action item:
> >>
> >> 1. Product Label for the community supported version provided by TDF
> >>
> >> First of all, it should be clear that this label is not targeted to
> >> community members, but to the outside world of LibreOffice users (so,
> >> probably to 99.9% of all users). Rejecting a label because it is not
> >> seen as appropriate for community members is not helping the decision,
> >> because we need to improve the positioning for all those people who do
> >> not contribute at all to the project (apart from donations, which are
> >> not seen as contributions for this decision).
> >>
> >> The unfortunate reality is that the majority of enterprises is using
> >> LibreOffice for free - is their right, but they usually save a rather
> >> substantial amount of money by replacing MS Office licenses with
> >> LibreOffice - without giving back anything, while they should support
> >> the project at least in the same proportion of individuals who donate
> >> (because they recognize the value of the software).
> >>
> >> So, we need to exert some moral suasion on enterprises by making it
> >> clear - with a label - that the LibreOffice version they are using is
> >> not targeted to enterprises, as it is not supported professionally, or
> >> it is not packaged according to the needs of enterprises deploying
> >> LibreOffice on a large number of PCs.
> >>
> >> Proposals in line with the objective:
> >>
> >> COMMUNITY: makes the Community happy, but does not communicate to users
> >> the right message, as Community is the feature-limited version of open
> >> core projects (best case, competent users or 1% of all users), or the
> >> organization where you treat addictions (worst case, or 98.9% of all
> >> users). IMHO not applicable.
> >>
> >> PERSONAL: does not make the Community happy because Personal is not
> >> interpreted in the right way by OSS advocates (Personal as in personal
> >> computer or personal productivity), on the contrary is rather clear for
> >> users outside the community ("I can use it for free on my PC"), and is
> >> providing the right message to enterprises (by the way, a label will not
> >> stop anyone from using LibreOffice for free on hundreds or thousands of
> >> PCs, but will give us a reason for a strong message). IMHO the best.
> >>
> >> ROLLING: Rolling is a techie term for OSS advocates, based on several
> >> Linux distros, although not popular amongst users provides a feeling of
> >> something which is not perfectly stable, and as such could be used - but
> >> the deployment should be carefully studied - to provide a message for
> >> enterprises. IMHO sub-optimal but probably acceptable.
> >>
> >> CLASSIC: Classic is a typical branding term used by very large brands to
> >> label the "original" product, when there are variants available. As such
> >> it could work, although the message for enterprises should be carefully
> >> crafted and added. IMHO sub-optimal but probably acceptable.
> >>
> >> BASIC: this is the closest label to "home" or "unsupported", which were
> >> suggested by ecosystem members (but have a negative meaning which is not
> >> appropriate for a quality product such as LibreOffice), it is not the
> >> most elegant solution but it could be deployed with some extra care, and
> >> some specific message targeted to enterprises. IMHO the last resport, if
> >> nothing else works.
> >>
> >> Looking forward to other proposals, possibly with a rationale.
> > My proposal would be: Creative
> > Rationale is that:
> > - it has a positive connotation which expresses the creativity of the
> > community reflected in the product.
> > - Creative lets you feel that it's in progress, will go further by
> > iterations just like when you write a book, or design a painting. And
> > it's how is our release process compared to LTS.
> > - also, it mirrors CC in the way of making commons accessible to all.
> >
> >> Of course, please remember the planned meeting on Wednesday, 

Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Discussion about Marketing Plan

[Regis Perdreau]

Hi,

Sorry for that,
I think that french speaking area would be interested by the meeting.
I save the date.

Regards,

Régis Perdreau



Le mer. 28 oct. 2020 à 16:32, Florian Effenberger <
flo...@documentfoundation.org> a écrit :

> Hi Italo,
>
> Italo Vignoli wrote:
> > After 90 minutes alone in the room, I have left.
> >
> > If this is the interest around the marketing plan, I don't think that
> > people could complain if they don't agree with the decisions.
> >
> > I will be again in the room next Wednesday, I hope to have more people
> > than today (having one would be a 100% increase).
>
> could we look into offering different times? I can imagine that for many
> European business hours are a problem.
>
> Florian
>
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Re: [libreoffice-marketing] LibreOfficeFR has reached a new milestone

[Regis Perdreau]

Hi,

Could we have any statistics sorted by langage/country/  about libreoffice
download ?

Cheers,

Régis Perdreau



Le ven. 23 août 2019 à 09:04, Mike Saunders <
mike.saund...@documentfoundation.org> a écrit :

> On 22/08/2019 19:49, William Gathoye wrote:
> >
> > Great super! But I was more thinking about the average views per tweet
> > you have (in terms of reach).
>
> I just looked at the analytics, and so far in August we've had 47 tweets
> with 302,000 impressions, so that averages at 6,425 per tweet (but that
> is largely distorted by the LO 6.3 announcement tweet).
>
> In August we've also had 12,100 profile visits and 1,171 mentions.
>
> Cheers,
> Mike
>
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