Re: [Marxism] Fwd: Fw: [jewswhospeakout] The trap set for the Jews of France (from the UJ FP, French Jewish Union for Peace)
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * Here's the English translation (I think, as the author's name is slightly different): http://jewdas.org/the-trap-set-for-the-jews-of-france/ -Original Message- From: Marxism [mailto:marxism-boun...@lists.csbs.utah.edu] On Behalf Of Andrew Pollack via Marxism Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2015 11:49 AM To: rfidle...@sympatico.ca Subject: [Marxism] Fwd: Fw: [jewswhospeakout] The trap set for the Jews of France (from the UJ FP, French Jewish Union for Peace) POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * Subject: Fw: [jewswhospeakout] The trap set for the Jews of France (from the UJ FP, French Jewish Union for Peace) From: Jim Cohen jim.co...@libertysurf.fr To: 'dr. abraham Weizfeld' saal...@fokus.name, directdemocracymovem...@yahoogroups.com, 'Jews Who Speak Out' jewswhospeak...@lists.riseup.net, 'CPRRJewishForum' cprrjewishfo...@yahoogroups.com, 'Givat' givat-ow...@yahoogroups.com, 'Jewish_Non-Zionist_FORUM' jewish_non-zionist_fo...@yahoogroups.com, 'JewishPeaceNews' jewishpeacenews-ow...@yahoogroups.com, 'J-P_Solidarite-y' j-p_solidarit...@yahoogroups.com, 'JPLO-OLPJ' jplo-o...@yahoogroups.com, 'JUNITY-Canada@yahoogroups. com' junity-can...@yahoogroups.com, 'PAJU' p...@yahoogroups.com Subject: [jewswhospeakout] The trap set for the Jews of France (from the UJFP, French Jewish Union for Peace) Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2015 21:55:16 +0100 Dear friends, Here’s something I just translated, and the translation has been approved by the folks who produced the text, that is, the National Bureau of the *Union juive fran�aise pour la paix*. To be shared if you see fit. best, Jim Cohen Paris Here’s the original : http://www.ujfp.org/spip.php?article3772 And the translation: *The trap set for the Jews of France * Thursday 15 January 2015 Bureau National de l’UJFP http://www.ujfp.org/spip.php?auteur222 – The National Bureau of the French Jewish Union for Peace In the past several days we have experienced the same repeated shocks as all our fellow citizens. As Jews we were profoundly upset by the horrible attack carried out on Jews only because they were Jews. This can only evoke memories of the worst periods of Judaism in France. All we believe in as activists, citizens, and human beings, and all that we struggle for – the value of life, equality among human beings, and *ta’ayush* (living together) – was trampled in the editorial office of a magazine and in a kosher market. We are convinced that freedom of expression is a fundamental value of any democratic society and that it must be defended at all costs against obscurantist violence. We are also conscious of the rise of a formidable anti-semitism in France. But we seek to analyze it and understand its causes, because like all racisms it breeds blindness, hatred and bloodshed. For years our association has been denouncing the trap set for French Jews and it is important to describe this trap again in the wake of this murderous attack. This trip has been laid by several different instances, at several different levels, yet not without coordination. It began with Ariel Sharon’s provocations on the esplanade of the� al-Aqsa Mosque, which unleashed a second Intifada in 2000. The Israeli government decided that France, which is home to the largest Jewish community of Europe, was a necessary and indispensable tool of its policies. The executive arms of these instances in France was made of the Israeli embassy, the Jewish Agency and the CRIF, that is, the so-called representative council of Jewish institutions in France. Their aim is to embark all Jews of France in a current of unconditional support to all actions of the Israeli government, including the worst. The CRIF seeks to impose the image of a totally homogeneous Jewish community in full support of a flawless Zionism and unequivocal support to the regime’s actions. The same mission is then pursued within the network of secular Jewish associations, from which our organization was bound quickly to be ejected because the orthodoxy says there is no salvation outside Zionism. To imagine a collectivity of nearly 600,000 French Jews speaking with a single voice is just as stupid and insane as attributing a similar unanimity to five or six million Muslims, among whom there are, obviously, religious observers, secular or otherwise and in varying degrees, and even a few friends of Zionism! Such reasoning promotes the
Re: [Marxism] Article on Borotba
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * There are two different, even if perhaps slightly overlapping, issues here. One is whether AWL is pro-Zionist and Islamophobic. The answer is yes, without question, and it can be documented if need be. The other is whether AWL's take on Ukraine is accurate. It very well might be. 90% of what the Stalinists in WWP/PSL say is accurate. But as with AWL, interpreting everything they say, and the spin they put on it, requires extra care given their bankrupt politics. On Wed, Jan 21, 2015 at 10:48 AM, Sergii Kutnii via Marxism marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu wrote: POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * There's an important cultural difference that comes to play here: while in the US Jewishness is seen as a religious identity, in the Eastern Europe it is more of a cultural or ethnic identity so a Christian Jew is not an oxymoron. Yes, it was not always so, and Jewishness has been defined through Judaism in pre-1917 Russian Empire but this is an important example of how an identity can be redefined over time. AWL does not, to the best of my knowledge, identify themselves as Jewish neither in terms of religion nor in terms of culture, so they don't seem to have a material stake in the conflict. They just have an idea of how a conflict in a distant land that does not affect them directly should be resolved. Without a material interest in the existence of Israel, this is not enough, in my view, to call anyone a Zionist. Should an American who thinks that Scottish independency is a good idea be called a Scottish nationalist? _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/acpollack2%40gmail.com _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] excellent takedown of liberal backlash against Selma
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Re: [Marxism] Article on Borotba
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * There's an important cultural difference that comes to play here: while in the US Jewishness is seen as a religious identity, in the Eastern Europe it is more of a cultural or ethnic identity so a Christian Jew is not an oxymoron. Yes, it was not always so, and Jewishness has been defined through Judaism in pre-1917 Russian Empire but this is an important example of how an identity can be redefined over time. AWL does not, to the best of my knowledge, identify themselves as Jewish neither in terms of religion nor in terms of culture, so they don't seem to have a material stake in the conflict. They just have an idea of how a conflict in a distant land that does not affect them directly should be resolved. Without a material interest in the existence of Israel, this is not enough, in my view, to call anyone a Zionist. Should an American who thinks that Scottish independency is a good idea be called a Scottish nationalist? _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Article on Borotba
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * There's an important cultural difference that comes to play here: while in the US Jewishness is seen as a religious identity, in the Eastern Europe it is more of a cultural or ethnic identity... WTF??? Obviously you've never been to Jerusalem...that is, NEW YORK CITY, have you? You view of American Jewish identify is false. D. _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Article on Borotba
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * I admit I've never been to the US, so I may be wrong. But from the comments of the US and British leftists it seems that religious identities are more important in the anglophone world than they are in the ex-USSR. I think this has something to do with the legacy of Protestantism and slightly different ways of secularisation. As for AWL, it's interesting to me, why they can't be called Ukrainian patriots for their position on Ukraine but can be called Zionists for their attitude towards Israel? Also, here exists a whole lot of nuances of the national question. Take this 'death to the settlers' issue, for example. Unfortunately, Ukraine has been a place where such calls materialised during the Volhynia Massacres. No, such calls by the oppressed are not innocent and should be taken seriously. _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Fwd: Fw: [jewswhospeakout] The trap set for the Jews of France (from the UJ FP, French Jewish Union for Peace)
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * Subject: Fw: [jewswhospeakout] The trap set for the Jews of France (from the UJ FP, French Jewish Union for Peace) From: Jim Cohen jim.co...@libertysurf.fr To: 'dr. abraham Weizfeld' saal...@fokus.name, directdemocracymovem...@yahoogroups.com, 'Jews Who Speak Out' jewswhospeak...@lists.riseup.net, 'CPRRJewishForum' cprrjewishfo...@yahoogroups.com, 'Givat' givat-ow...@yahoogroups.com, 'Jewish_Non-Zionist_FORUM' jewish_non-zionist_fo...@yahoogroups.com, 'JewishPeaceNews' jewishpeacenews-ow...@yahoogroups.com, 'J-P_Solidarite-y' j-p_solidarit...@yahoogroups.com, 'JPLO-OLPJ' jplo-o...@yahoogroups.com, 'JUNITY-Canada@yahoogroups. com' junity-can...@yahoogroups.com, 'PAJU' p...@yahoogroups.com Subject: [jewswhospeakout] The trap set for the Jews of France (from the UJFP, French Jewish Union for Peace) Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2015 21:55:16 +0100 Dear friends, Here’s something I just translated, and the translation has been approved by the folks who produced the text, that is, the National Bureau of the *Union juive fran�aise pour la paix*. To be shared if you see fit. best, Jim Cohen Paris Here’s the original : http://www.ujfp.org/spip.php?article3772 And the translation: *The trap set for the Jews of France * Thursday 15 January 2015 Bureau National de l’UJFP http://www.ujfp.org/spip.php?auteur222 – The National Bureau of the French Jewish Union for Peace In the past several days we have experienced the same repeated shocks as all our fellow citizens. As Jews we were profoundly upset by the horrible attack carried out on Jews only because they were Jews. This can only evoke memories of the worst periods of Judaism in France. All we believe in as activists, citizens, and human beings, and all that we struggle for – the value of life, equality among human beings, and *ta’ayush* (living together) – was trampled in the editorial office of a magazine and in a kosher market. We are convinced that freedom of expression is a fundamental value of any democratic society and that it must be defended at all costs against obscurantist violence. We are also conscious of the rise of a formidable anti-semitism in France. But we seek to analyze it and understand its causes, because like all racisms it breeds blindness, hatred and bloodshed. For years our association has been denouncing the trap set for French Jews and it is important to describe this trap again in the wake of this murderous attack. This trip has been laid by several different instances, at several different levels, yet not without coordination. It began with Ariel Sharon’s provocations on the esplanade of the� al-Aqsa Mosque, which unleashed a second Intifada in 2000. The Israeli government decided that France, which is home to the largest Jewish community of Europe, was a necessary and indispensable tool of its policies. The executive arms of these instances in France was made of the Israeli embassy, the Jewish Agency and the CRIF, that is, the so-called representative council of Jewish institutions in France. Their aim is to embark all Jews of France in a current of unconditional support to all actions of the Israeli government, including the worst. The CRIF seeks to impose the image of a totally homogeneous Jewish community in full support of a flawless Zionism and unequivocal support to the regime’s actions. The same mission is then pursued within the network of secular Jewish associations, from which our organization was bound quickly to be ejected because the orthodoxy says there is no salvation outside Zionism. To imagine a collectivity of nearly 600,000 French Jews speaking with a single voice is just as stupid and insane as attributing a similar unanimity to five or six million Muslims, among whom there are, obviously, religious observers, secular or otherwise and in varying degrees, and even a few friends of Zionism! Such reasoning promotes the assimilation, in everyone’s mind, between Jews and support for Israeli policy whatever it may be. And this is policy which occupies, colonizes and kills Palestinian Arabs every day.� Israel’s successive governments have addressed themselves over the same period of time to French Jews, urging them to leave France, with all its supposedly anti-semitic Muslims, and make their *aliyah* to Israel. To complete the picture, there is a family of French intellectuals who espouse a “clash-of-civilizations” view of the world .Caroline Fourest, Pierre-Andr� Taguieff, Jacques Tarn�ro, Alain Finkielkraut and others lead the charge both against Islam and for Zionism. Successive French governments, for their part, have continually confused legitimate criticism of Israel and Zionism with anti-semitism and
[Marxism] Fwd: Kshama Sawant Gives #SocialistResponse to Obama’s State of the Union Address | Socialist Alternative
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * http://www.socialistalternative.org/2015/01/20/kshama-sawant-socialistresponse-obamas-state-union-address/ _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Article on Borotba
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * DW said: WTF??? Obviously you've never been to Jerusalem...that is, NEW YORK CITY, have you? Ken Hiebert replies: Whatever you may have intended, this comment could be read as a complaint that there are too many Jews in New York. I don't know how many Jews there are in New York, but I hope they all feel at home there. I wouldn't want to suggest to any of them that they might be more welcome in Israel. _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Article on Borotba
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * New York City population: 8,405,837 Jewish population of New York City: 2,028,200 [Wikipedia] Not exactly Jerusalem. So much for stupid stereotypes. T -Original Message- From: Ken Hiebert via Marxism marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Sent: Jan 21, 2015 5:28 PM To: Thomas F Barton thomasfbar...@earthlink.net Cc: dwalters...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Marxism] Article on Borotba POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * DW said: WTF??? Obviously you've never been to Jerusalem...that is, NEW YORK CITY, have you? Ken Hiebert replies: Whatever you may have intended, this comment could be read as a complaint that there are too many Jews in New York. I don't know how many Jews there are in New York, but I hope they all feel at home there. I wouldn't want to suggest to any of them that they might be more welcome in Israel. _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/thomasfbarton%40earthlink.net _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Article on Borotba
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * 2 million Jews in New York, considering there are only about ~15 million Jews worldwide, some 40% of which live in Israel, is a fairly massive number. Again I think you guys are trying to find something anti-Jewish about his comment. Moreover, the issue originally was Zionism and whether AWL's Zionist politics undo their credibility about Borotba. Regardless of how one feels about Borotba, the AWL is in fact a Zionist propaganda outlet and their pamphlets are ridden with Israeli propaganda. One does not need to be a Jew to be a Zionist. Zionism is not simply Israeli nationalism, it is a colonial movement that originated outside the Middle East and whose many adherents were as anti-Jewish as they were Jewish. The AWL shares the worldview and politics of this movement, despite some minor reservations. It deserves no quarter. - Amith On Wed, Jan 21, 2015 at 6:04 PM, Charles Faulkner via Marxism marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu wrote: POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * for what it's worth i didn't see it so much as a stereotype as an attempt to say, crudely perhaps, that it is easy to see that people in the u.s. do not understand jewish life as primarily religious given the rich, long standing and well delineated cultural life of jews in new york, where 1 in 4 actually is pretty impressive. in fact i would go farther. there seems to be a tendency abroad to see americans monochromatically. while i have no problem in believing religion is less relevant in countries from the former soviet union, i'm detecting an inclination of some to tar everyone in america with religion's brush. is religion pervasive in america? yes. and it taints everyone's understanding? silly. - Original Message - From: Thomas via Marxism marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu To: Charles Faulkner lacena...@comcast.net Cc: dwalters...@gmail.com Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2015 2:41:16 PM Subject: Re: [Marxism] Article on Borotba POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * New York City population: 8,405,837 Jewish population of New York City: 2,028,200 [Wikipedia] Not exactly Jerusalem. So much for stupid stereotypes. T -Original Message- From: Ken Hiebert via Marxism marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Sent: Jan 21, 2015 5:28 PM To: Thomas F Barton thomasfbar...@earthlink.net Cc: dwalters...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Marxism] Article on Borotba POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * DW said: WTF??? Obviously you've never been to Jerusalem...that is, NEW YORK CITY, have you? Ken Hiebert replies: Whatever you may have intended, this comment could be read as a complaint that there are too many Jews in New York. I don't know how many Jews there are in New York, but I hope they all feel at home there. I wouldn't want to suggest to any of them that they might be more welcome in Israel. _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/thomasfbarton%40earthlink.net _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/lacenaire%40comcast.net _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/amithrgupta%40gmail.com _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Article on Borotba
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * thanks amith. understood. - Original Message - From: A.R. G amithrgu...@gmail.com To: Charles Faulkner lacena...@comcast.net Cc: Marxism Serve marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2015 3:59:36 PM Subject: Re: [Marxism] Article on Borotba Hi Charles, I am responding to the entire list, not you specifically. I was agreeing with you. - Amith On Wed, Jan 21, 2015 at 6:39 PM, Charles Faulkner lacena...@comcast.net wrote: this is the second time you've piggy-backed my message, said you guys, and then expressed the exact opposite of what i wrote. may i ask why you do that? do you understand that that can cause confusion and resentment? From: A.R. G amithrgu...@gmail.com To: Charles Faulkner lacena...@comcast.net , Activists and scholars in Marxist tradition marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2015 3:25:18 PM Subject: Re: [Marxism] Article on Borotba 2 million Jews in New York, considering there are only about ~15 million Jews worldwide, some 40% of which live in Israel, is a fairly massive number. Again I think you guys are trying to find something anti-Jewish about his comment. Moreover, the issue originally was Zionism and whether AWL's Zionist politics undo their credibility about Borotba. Regardless of how one feels about Borotba, the AWL is in fact a Zionist propaganda outlet and their pamphlets are ridden with Israeli propaganda. One does not need to be a Jew to be a Zionist. Zionism is not simply Israeli nationalism, it is a colonial movement that originated outside the Middle East and whose many adherents were as anti-Jewish as they were Jewish. The AWL shares the worldview and politics of this movement, despite some minor reservations. It deserves no quarter. - Amith On Wed, Jan 21, 2015 at 6:04 PM, Charles Faulkner via Marxism marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu wrote: blockquote POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * for what it's worth i didn't see it so much as a stereotype as an attempt to say, crudely perhaps, that it is easy to see that people in the u.s. do not understand jewish life as primarily religious given the rich, long standing and well delineated cultural life of jews in new york, where 1 in 4 actually is pretty impressive. in fact i would go farther. there seems to be a tendency abroad to see americans monochromatically. while i have no problem in believing religion is less relevant in countries from the former soviet union, i'm detecting an inclination of some to tar everyone in america with religion's brush. is religion pervasive in america? yes. and it taints everyone's understanding? silly. - Original Message - From: Thomas via Marxism marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu To: Charles Faulkner lacena...@comcast.net Cc: dwalters...@gmail.com Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2015 2:41:16 PM Subject: Re: [Marxism] Article on Borotba POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * New York City population: 8,405,837 Jewish population of New York City: 2,028,200 [Wikipedia] Not exactly Jerusalem. So much for stupid stereotypes. T -Original Message- From: Ken Hiebert via Marxism marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Sent: Jan 21, 2015 5:28 PM To: Thomas F Barton thomasfbar...@earthlink.net Cc: dwalters...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Marxism] Article on Borotba POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * DW said: WTF??? Obviously you've never been to Jerusalem...that is, NEW YORK CITY, have you? Ken Hiebert replies: Whatever you may have intended, this comment could be read as a complaint that there are too many Jews in New York. I don't know how many Jews there are in New York, but I hope they all feel at home there. I wouldn't want to suggest to any of them that they might be more welcome in Israel.
Re: [Marxism] Article on Borotba
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * Hi Charles, I am responding to the entire list, not you specifically. I was agreeing with you. - Amith On Wed, Jan 21, 2015 at 6:39 PM, Charles Faulkner lacena...@comcast.net wrote: this is the second time you've piggy-backed my message, said you guys, and then expressed the exact opposite of what i wrote. may i ask why you do that? do you understand that that can cause confusion and resentment? -- *From: *A.R. G amithrgu...@gmail.com *To: *Charles Faulkner lacena...@comcast.net, Activists and scholars in Marxist tradition marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu *Sent: *Wednesday, January 21, 2015 3:25:18 PM *Subject: *Re: [Marxism] Article on Borotba 2 million Jews in New York, considering there are only about ~15 million Jews worldwide, some 40% of which live in Israel, is a fairly massive number. Again I think you guys are trying to find something anti-Jewish about his comment. Moreover, the issue originally was Zionism and whether AWL's Zionist politics undo their credibility about Borotba. Regardless of how one feels about Borotba, the AWL is in fact a Zionist propaganda outlet and their pamphlets are ridden with Israeli propaganda. One does not need to be a Jew to be a Zionist. Zionism is not simply Israeli nationalism, it is a colonial movement that originated outside the Middle East and whose many adherents were as anti-Jewish as they were Jewish. The AWL shares the worldview and politics of this movement, despite some minor reservations. It deserves no quarter. - Amith On Wed, Jan 21, 2015 at 6:04 PM, Charles Faulkner via Marxism marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu wrote: POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * for what it's worth i didn't see it so much as a stereotype as an attempt to say, crudely perhaps, that it is easy to see that people in the u.s. do not understand jewish life as primarily religious given the rich, long standing and well delineated cultural life of jews in new york, where 1 in 4 actually is pretty impressive. in fact i would go farther. there seems to be a tendency abroad to see americans monochromatically. while i have no problem in believing religion is less relevant in countries from the former soviet union, i'm detecting an inclination of some to tar everyone in america with religion's brush. is religion pervasive in america? yes. and it taints everyone's understanding? silly. - Original Message - From: Thomas via Marxism marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu To: Charles Faulkner lacena...@comcast.net Cc: dwalters...@gmail.com Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2015 2:41:16 PM Subject: Re: [Marxism] Article on Borotba POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * New York City population: 8,405,837 Jewish population of New York City: 2,028,200 [Wikipedia] Not exactly Jerusalem. So much for stupid stereotypes. T -Original Message- From: Ken Hiebert via Marxism marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Sent: Jan 21, 2015 5:28 PM To: Thomas F Barton thomasfbar...@earthlink.net Cc: dwalters...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Marxism] Article on Borotba POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * DW said: WTF??? Obviously you've never been to Jerusalem...that is, NEW YORK CITY, have you? Ken Hiebert replies: Whatever you may have intended, this comment could be read as a complaint that there are too many Jews in New York. I don't know how many Jews there are in New York, but I hope they all feel at home there. I wouldn't want to suggest to any of them that they might be more welcome in Israel. _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/thomasfbarton%40earthlink.net
Re: [Marxism] Article on Borotba
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * this is the second time you've piggy-backed my message, said you guys, and then expressed the exact opposite of what i wrote. may i ask why you do that? do you understand that that can cause confusion and resentment? - Original Message - From: A.R. G amithrgu...@gmail.com To: Charles Faulkner lacena...@comcast.net, Activists and scholars in Marxist tradition marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2015 3:25:18 PM Subject: Re: [Marxism] Article on Borotba 2 million Jews in New York, considering there are only about ~15 million Jews worldwide, some 40% of which live in Israel, is a fairly massive number. Again I think you guys are trying to find something anti-Jewish about his comment. Moreover, the issue originally was Zionism and whether AWL's Zionist politics undo their credibility about Borotba. Regardless of how one feels about Borotba, the AWL is in fact a Zionist propaganda outlet and their pamphlets are ridden with Israeli propaganda. One does not need to be a Jew to be a Zionist. Zionism is not simply Israeli nationalism, it is a colonial movement that originated outside the Middle East and whose many adherents were as anti-Jewish as they were Jewish. The AWL shares the worldview and politics of this movement, despite some minor reservations. It deserves no quarter. - Amith On Wed, Jan 21, 2015 at 6:04 PM, Charles Faulkner via Marxism marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu wrote: POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * for what it's worth i didn't see it so much as a stereotype as an attempt to say, crudely perhaps, that it is easy to see that people in the u.s. do not understand jewish life as primarily religious given the rich, long standing and well delineated cultural life of jews in new york, where 1 in 4 actually is pretty impressive. in fact i would go farther. there seems to be a tendency abroad to see americans monochromatically. while i have no problem in believing religion is less relevant in countries from the former soviet union, i'm detecting an inclination of some to tar everyone in america with religion's brush. is religion pervasive in america? yes. and it taints everyone's understanding? silly. - Original Message - From: Thomas via Marxism marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu To: Charles Faulkner lacena...@comcast.net Cc: dwalters...@gmail.com Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2015 2:41:16 PM Subject: Re: [Marxism] Article on Borotba POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * New York City population: 8,405,837 Jewish population of New York City: 2,028,200 [Wikipedia] Not exactly Jerusalem. So much for stupid stereotypes. T -Original Message- From: Ken Hiebert via Marxism marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Sent: Jan 21, 2015 5:28 PM To: Thomas F Barton thomasfbar...@earthlink.net Cc: dwalters...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Marxism] Article on Borotba POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * DW said: WTF??? Obviously you've never been to Jerusalem...that is, NEW YORK CITY, have you? Ken Hiebert replies: Whatever you may have intended, this comment could be read as a complaint that there are too many Jews in New York. I don't know how many Jews there are in New York, but I hope they all feel at home there. I wouldn't want to suggest to any of them that they might be more welcome in Israel. _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/thomasfbarton%40earthlink.net _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/lacenaire%40comcast.net
Re: [Marxism] Article on Borotba
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * for what it's worth i didn't see it so much as a stereotype as an attempt to say, crudely perhaps, that it is easy to see that people in the u.s. do not understand jewish life as primarily religious given the rich, long standing and well delineated cultural life of jews in new york, where 1 in 4 actually is pretty impressive. in fact i would go farther. there seems to be a tendency abroad to see americans monochromatically. while i have no problem in believing religion is less relevant in countries from the former soviet union, i'm detecting an inclination of some to tar everyone in america with religion's brush. is religion pervasive in america? yes. and it taints everyone's understanding? silly. - Original Message - From: Thomas via Marxism marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu To: Charles Faulkner lacena...@comcast.net Cc: dwalters...@gmail.com Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2015 2:41:16 PM Subject: Re: [Marxism] Article on Borotba POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * New York City population: 8,405,837 Jewish population of New York City: 2,028,200 [Wikipedia] Not exactly Jerusalem. So much for stupid stereotypes. T -Original Message- From: Ken Hiebert via Marxism marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Sent: Jan 21, 2015 5:28 PM To: Thomas F Barton thomasfbar...@earthlink.net Cc: dwalters...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Marxism] Article on Borotba POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * DW said: WTF??? Obviously you've never been to Jerusalem...that is, NEW YORK CITY, have you? Ken Hiebert replies: Whatever you may have intended, this comment could be read as a complaint that there are too many Jews in New York. I don't know how many Jews there are in New York, but I hope they all feel at home there. I wouldn't want to suggest to any of them that they might be more welcome in Israel. _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/thomasfbarton%40earthlink.net _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/lacenaire%40comcast.net _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Fwd: Oregon Was Founded As a Racist Utopia
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * http://gizmodo.com/oregon-was-founded-as-a-racist-utopia-1539567040 _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Fwd: Oregon Was Founded As a Racist Utopia
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * thanks. i'm finding this article very interesting. as an aside, with martin luther king day this week, i would like to note that the fraternal order of the eagles, or eagles club, was founded in the pacific northwest (seattle, washington) in 1898. it did not admit blacks into its membership until relatively recently (i believe the 1990's) when clashes occurred at club functions. some of you will remember father groppi's campaign against the eagles club in late 1960's in milwaukee, wisconsin. james earl ray, king's murderer, wrote a note to his attorneys during preparation for his first trial regarding the things that could be used against him. one of the oddities, which never has been dealt with adequately, was that he was an eagles club member. - Original Message - From: Louis Proyect via Marxism marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu To: Charles Faulkner lacena...@comcast.net Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2015 3:24:06 PM Subject: [Marxism] Fwd: Oregon Was Founded As a Racist Utopia POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * http://gizmodo.com/oregon-was-founded-as-a-racist-utopia-1539567040 _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/lacenaire%40comcast.net _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Article on Borotba
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * I didn't get that at all. I thought we were talking about how Jews identify themselves in America, it is just as much a race/ethnicity in the US as it is in Europe. As for calling NYC Jerusalem it has plenty of Jews. IMO they should be able to live wherever they want, NYC or Tel Aviv or even in the West Bank, but not as settler-colonists. - Amith On Wed, Jan 21, 2015 at 5:28 PM, Ken Hiebert via Marxism marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu wrote: POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * DW said: WTF??? Obviously you've never been to Jerusalem...that is, NEW YORK CITY, have you? Ken Hiebert replies: Whatever you may have intended, this comment could be read as a complaint that there are too many Jews in New York. I don't know how many Jews there are in New York, but I hope they all feel at home there. I wouldn't want to suggest to any of them that they might be more welcome in Israel. _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/amithrgupta%40gmail.com _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Article on Borotba
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * Gawddd! First, though you might not know it, was born in NYC and I'm Jewish. Everyone knows it is the capital of Jewish culture, or, as my uncle Albert used to say, if it ain't, it should be. That Jewish Americans only make up 20% of the population of the City... you ought to know more about the role Jews played after 1900 in developing that City's culture. Jerusalem, the future capital of Palestine, only comes in at 780,000 and not all of them are Jewish.So, at Passover here in California, when we say Next Year in Jerusalem, it doesn't meant the Zionist entity to me My first impression of Israel when I went there as a young teenager was that there were, seemingly, a lot Israelis, but very few Jews. I'll let you digest the implications of that. My snarky remark was in reaction to the hugely ignorant statement about America's Jews being identifiable mostly be religious self-identification. I wanted to set the record straight. Ken felt my comment could be perceived as suggesting there may be too many Jews in NYC. Sorry for the confusion. Though, truth be told, the only people I've *EVER* heard make that comment are Jewish New Yorkers. Go figure? DW _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] White Oregon
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * http://slavenorth.com/exclusion.htm _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Greece eyewitness: SYRIZA pushes p for to help jobless
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * Speakers from the SYRIZA -- the radical left force poised to win Greece's January 25 general elections -- addressed the topic of “How To Recover From Unemployment” and the role of the Manpower Employment Organisation (OAED) in Athens on January 20. https://www.greenleft.org.au/node/58069 -- “Disobedience, in the eyes of anyone who has read history, is humanity’s original virtue. It is through disobedience that progress has been made, through disobedience and through rebellion.” — Oscar Wilde, Soul of Man Under Socialism “The free market is perfectly natural... do you think I am some kind of dummy?” — Jarvis Cocker _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] White Oregon
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * From my book, Cheap Motels and a Hot Plate. We lived in Portland for fourteen months and then for two months a few years afterward. The most distressing thing about Portland, and the fact that most belied its liberal image, was its racism. A writer once called Portland the “last bastion of Caucasian culture.” It is certainly a white town; less than 7 percent of the population is African-American. Even the city’s homeless are nearly all white, as are all the young people asking for money. Blacks who gravitated to Portland to work in the wartime shipyards were housed in a floodplain of the Columbia River and were soon enough driven out by high waters. The ghettoes where they were next allowed to live were destroyed by highway construction. Today the tiny black community is scattered over several mostly poor neighborhoods. Despite the small number of black residents, whites were inordinately hostile to them. While we lived in Portland, there were several highly publicized and completely unjustified police shootings of black persons; in the six months before we left, they shot and killed a black woman and a black man. The woman and her male companion were stopped. The man, a suspected drug dealer, was taken from the car and confronted by the cops. The woman moved from the back seat to the front and got behind the steering wheel. She started the engine and was probably about to flee. She was unarmed, and the police knew who she was and where she lived. One of them tried to prevent her from leaving. He claimed that, as he put his arm in the window, he felt his life threatened. So he simply pulled out his gun and shot the woman, leaving her children without a mother. A few months later, two cops, including one who was clearly a psychopath (though presented later as an upstanding Christian by the minister of his fundamentalist church), stopped a black man for failure to use his turn signal when pulling into a strip mall. The man was apparently high on cocaine, but was unarmed and offered no resistance. Within twenty-four seconds from the time he was motioned over by the officers, he was shot dead. Most white people acted as if these killings were justified. The radio talk show hosts ranted that when a person showed anything but complete obedience to police commands, he or she deserved to get killed. And if he or she had had any previous run-ins with the law, something hard for a black person to avoid in this country, then the shooting was not only justified but a positive benefit to society. Letters to the editors of local newspapers made the same arguments. But it wasn’t only police confrontations that got folks riled up about race. Portland has a professional basketball team. Their best player was Rasheed Wallace, an outspoken black man who led the league in technical fouls, seldom spoke with reporters, never dressed up, and made pointed remarks about racism in the National Basketball Association. When he declared in a rare interview that the league loved to recruit unsophisticated black players just out of high school because they were easier to exploit, the media went wild. How could a rich athlete make such comments? Didn’t Portland treat him and the other players like royalty? And now he spits on them. Editorialists, including former white Portland star Bill Walton, condemned him, and the sports show hosts suggested none too subtly that he be driven out of town on a rail. Interestingly, he was eventually traded to the Detroit team, and ever since has been a model citizen. It is hard to imagine two more different cities, in terms of racial mix and attitudes, than Portland and Detroit. In our large apartment building there was one black person. Karen was talking to him and two white women on the rooftop deck of the complex. She asked him what his experiences had been being a black person in a town with such a small minority population. He answered the question matter-of-factly, but one of the women exploded. How could Karen ask this man such a question? When Karen pointed out that Portland seemed to be a city devoid of black persons and was generally lacking in diversity, the irate woman said vehemently that this was not true. It was Karen who was the racist for saying this. “Why,” the woman said, “if you want to see diversity, come clubbing with me some night at four a.m. There are all kinds of persons out then.” It was difficult to respond to such a ridiculous assertion, but the woman kept up her harangue. The other woman, who had worked in customer
Re: [Marxism] Funniest/saddest take on Greece I've read
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * You are right -- it doesn't mention standing *specifically* against Syriza, but it does talk about Antarsya's election campaign. At a meeting on Tuesday, the speaker mentioned this meant the group would compete directly against Syriza, but I may have misunderstood. As I understand it, though, the election system is combination of constituent voting with a partialy modified proportional voting. I don't know where Antarsya is standing, but my guess would be it would involve standing agaisnt Syriza candidates. But even if they weren't competing in any specific seat, the percentage of votes a party gets counts overall at the top and bottom ends of the results --and could be decisive. At the top, the party that wins the largest vote gets an extra 50 seats, though unless you win something like 40% of the vote that isn't enough to give you outright majority with the extra seats. At the bottom, you need to cross 3% threshold to win a seat. Antarsya won 0.33% in 2012 and 0.77% in last year's European elections. I don't know what they are polling this time, but it is likely the more they win, the more they take from Syriza -- unless such voters would otherwise abstain. Even without the specifcs of the electoral system, in my view (though clearly not theirs) it is an error not to throw your weight behind Syriza and be part of the campaign to get them into government. It would be posible for Antarsya to do this and remain outside of and independent of Syriza. They could decide not to run in elections and call for a vote for Syriza. There are also several groups that have joined Syriza's electoral list. For example, Ecologist Greens decided in this month to join Syriza's electoral list in response to a call from Syriza for left unity in the elections. Obviously, Antarsya and its component groups, such as the IST group that wrote that article, can and will make their own decisions -- but I will refrain from viewing the sales rate for their paper as consideration in this dramatic showdown. Stuart On 22 January 2015 at 00:32, A.R. G amithrgu...@gmail.com wrote: It didn't say anything about them running against Syriza. Do you have any link as such? I agree it's a silly comment nonetheless. On Wednesday, January 21, 2015, Stuart Munckton via Marxism marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu wrote: POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * By the IST group that is part of anti-capitalist coalition Antarsya, which is running *against* Syriza, in the UK Socialist Worker http://socialistworker.co.uk/art/39788/Left+gains+in+Greece+as+rulers+fail+to+panic+voters : We’ve never sold so many copies of Workers’ Solidarity, Socialist Worker’s sister paper. On the verge of electing the most radical government in Europe since the 1930s, with all of the huge issues this raises and contradictions and problems and potentials for both advance and defeat for working people in Greece and Europe in their many millions and they actually think this is a relevent comment in a piece providing analysis of the sitaution. I am sure members of this group, and all the other far left groups in, (and just like members of all the component groups of Syriza), are active in a range of struggles -- is they say, as though the ability to say we are involved in struggles then gives them grounds to make such a seemingly unself-aware absurd statement as this. I mean, if at a time like this in Greece, you couldn't sell a far left paper, it would have to be an astonishingly crap one... I'd say even whatever the Spartacus-aligned group is in Greece is experiencing record sales too... You might be making a crazy sectarian error, you might be unable to actually connect with and win working class in any signficant numbers despite the severity of the crisis and openness to radical solutions... but you are selling more copies of your paper than ever before. What a great victory for the oppressed working people of Greece. It's hard to know whether to laugh or cry. -- “Disobedience, in the eyes of anyone who has read history, is humanity’s original virtue. It is through disobedience that progress has been made, through disobedience and through rebellion.” — Oscar Wilde, Soul of Man Under Socialism “The free market is perfectly natural... do you think I am some kind of dummy?” — Jarvis Cocker
[Marxism] South American nations
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * Multiple links on Venezuela, Bolivia et al. http://www.bookforum.com/blog/#entry14184 _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Fwd: A Vision from the North
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * Admin: the Regina Manifesto was the program of the Co-operative Commonwealth Federation, a decently-sized socialist group in Canada which participated in elections, and was launched in response to the Great Depression. After McCarthyism it eventually devolved into the New Democratic Party, a more Keynesian formation which recently removed even its solely rhetorical socialism from its programs. The Manifesto can be accessed at the Socialist History Project of Canada. louisproyect • 18 hours ago This is from volume one of Ernie Tate’s 2 volume “Revolutionary Activism in the 1950s and 60s”, a memoir that I will be reviewing for CounterPunch this week. Ernie, who was born in 1934, joined the Canadian Trotskyists in 1955. He had arrived the year before from Northern Ireland, a factory worker who had become radicalized in part by mass demonstrations he saw in Paris the summer before celebrating the victory of Ho Chi Minh at Dien Bien Phu. Although the memoir is about his life in the trenches building a “vanguard” party, his outlook today is very much in line with North Star’s. Chapter Nine The Cooperative Commonwealth Federation TOWARDS THE END OF THE FIFTIES, THE DARK CLOUDS OF THE WITCH-hunt in Canada, although beginning to lift, were still very much present. The radical left in the country was small and isolated. But it was not something that we were prepared to accept as a given fact. We were always on the lookout for political openings whereby we could widen our contacts with other socialists or left moving workers. For example, the CCF had been in decline towards the end of the decade but still there remained a scattering of socialists throughout the party, working valiantly trying to push it to the left. Although most of our political energy was focused on our own independent activities in building our group, we still maintained a policy of encouraging those of our members who could do so to join and become active in the CCF. full: http://www.thenorthstar.info/?p=12109 _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Fwd: Can Capitalists Save Capitalism? - NYTimes.com
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/21/opinion/can-capitalists-save-capitalism.html _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Funniest/saddest take on Greece I've read
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * It didn't say anything about them running against Syriza. Do you have any link as such? I agree it's a silly comment nonetheless. On Wednesday, January 21, 2015, Stuart Munckton via Marxism marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu wrote: POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * By the IST group that is part of anti-capitalist coalition Antarsya, which is running *against* Syriza, in the UK Socialist Worker http://socialistworker.co.uk/art/39788/Left+gains+in+Greece+as+rulers+fail+to+panic+voters : We’ve never sold so many copies of Workers’ Solidarity, Socialist Worker’s sister paper. On the verge of electing the most radical government in Europe since the 1930s, with all of the huge issues this raises and contradictions and problems and potentials for both advance and defeat for working people in Greece and Europe in their many millions and they actually think this is a relevent comment in a piece providing analysis of the sitaution. I am sure members of this group, and all the other far left groups in, (and just like members of all the component groups of Syriza), are active in a range of struggles -- is they say, as though the ability to say we are involved in struggles then gives them grounds to make such a seemingly unself-aware absurd statement as this. I mean, if at a time like this in Greece, you couldn't sell a far left paper, it would have to be an astonishingly crap one... I'd say even whatever the Spartacus-aligned group is in Greece is experiencing record sales too... You might be making a crazy sectarian error, you might be unable to actually connect with and win working class in any signficant numbers despite the severity of the crisis and openness to radical solutions... but you are selling more copies of your paper than ever before. What a great victory for the oppressed working people of Greece. It's hard to know whether to laugh or cry. -- “Disobedience, in the eyes of anyone who has read history, is humanity’s original virtue. It is through disobedience that progress has been made, through disobedience and through rebellion.” — Oscar Wilde, Soul of Man Under Socialism “The free market is perfectly natural... do you think I am some kind of dummy?” — Jarvis Cocker _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/amithrgupta%40gmail.com -- - Amith _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
