date:20160902

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Both Louis and Jeffrey have raised examples of presidential politicians who
they think as racist as Trump.

Louis went back 50 years and named Goldwater because the Klan endorsed him
- although he strongly rejected their endorsement,

Jeffrey went back 100 years and named Wilson because he showed Birth of a
Nation in the WH, although he later said he regret it had been made.

Here are a few choice examples of racist statement from Donald Trump:

“When Mexico sends its people, they’re not sending the best. They’re not
sending you, they’re sending people that have lots of problems and they’re
bringing those problems with us. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bring
crime. They’re rapists… And some, I assume, are good people.”

“Our great African-American President hasn’t exactly had a positive impact
on the thugs who are so happily and openly destroying Baltimore.”

“‘Laziness is a trait in blacks. It really is, I believe that.”

“A well-educated black has a tremendous advantage over a well-educated
white in terms of the job market.”

“Who the f knows? I mean, really, who knows how much the Japs will pay for
Manhattan property these days?”

My challenge to Louis and Jeffrey is to provide comparable statements from
Wilson and Goldwater or Clinton for that matter.

And before you respond that these words don't matter, its a question of
policy, remember that you are speaking for yourself and not the millions of
non-whites these statements are directed at.

You need to explain to them why they shouldn't care if Trump or Clinton is
the next president. Never mind convincing me, you're right you won't.

But I hope you are giving some serious thought to how you can win the
non-white masses to your position. Those are the arguments you need to make
here and if you think your comparisons to Goldwater and Wilson will ease
their fears and cause them to see the correctness of the white progressives
that are telling them not to mind if Trump is our next president and vote
for Stein, you are wrong.

So let's see those quotes from Wilson & Goldwater.  That shouldn't be so
hard, after all 50, 100 year ago the GOP leadership welcomed klan support
even if Goldwater didn't.



Clay Claiborne, Director
Vietnam: American Holocaust 
Linux Beach Productions
Venice, CA 90291
(310) 581-1536

Read my blogs at the Linux Beach 

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Re: [Marxism] Vote for Clinton?

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I honestly don't believe I have to point this out, but Wilson held power,
and Trump has not.  Wilson lied the country into a world war that killed
and mained Americans in the hundreds of thousands.  He presided over a wave
of lynchings as well as the armed, vicious, and lethal assaults on the
black community by both the authorities and by real white nationalist thugs
. . . . .

Not that I'm unhappy to see Clay so in touch with his inner child, but this
is my last comment on this subject line, since it's clear that realities
just don't weigh anything for those who want to ignore them.

On Sat, Sep 3, 2016 at 12:14 AM, Clay Claiborne via Marxism <
marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu> wrote:

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>
> Wilson was obviously a bigger racist than Trump because he showed Birth of
> a Nation in the WH and had a friend that wanted to "help the weaker races."
>
> You are making this argument to say that Trump's threat to expel 11 million
> workers, ban all Muslims from the US and crack down on crime in the black
> community - not be soft like Obama is no worst than above so there's not
> problem with the white progressive movement to stop Clinton.
>
> Anyone that sees this Stop Hillary movement [which includes Trump and the
> white nationalists BTW] as a backhanded support for Trump will be read the
> riot act.
>
> You'll build a lot of unity with that line.
>
> Clay Claiborne, Director
> Vietnam: American Holocaust 
> Linux Beach Productions
> Venice, CA 90291
> (310) 581-1536
>
> Read my blogs at the Linux Beach 
> 
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Re: [Marxism] Vote for Clinton?

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Wilson was obviously a bigger racist than Trump because he showed Birth of
a Nation in the WH and had a friend that wanted to "help the weaker races."

You are making this argument to say that Trump's threat to expel 11 million
workers, ban all Muslims from the US and crack down on crime in the black
community - not be soft like Obama is no worst than above so there's not
problem with the white progressive movement to stop Clinton.

Anyone that sees this Stop Hillary movement [which includes Trump and the
white nationalists BTW] as a backhanded support for Trump will be read the
riot act.

You'll build a lot of unity with that line.

Clay Claiborne, Director
Vietnam: American Holocaust 
Linux Beach Productions
Venice, CA 90291
(310) 581-1536

Read my blogs at the Linux Beach 

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Re: [Marxism] Vote for Clinton?

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Worth a look for its rather accurate view of Wilson and other "Progressives"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZBRcdy7ndI



On Sat, Sep 3, 2016 at 12:02 AM, Jeffrey Masko via Marxism <
marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu> wrote:

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>
> This does not address the fact that the film was shown at the WH. And yes,
> we should take the word of the author of The Klansmen, who thought the
> reconstruction Klan was good thing and who wanted to "help the weaker
> races." Do you hear yourself? I'll let your statements stand for themselves
> and will not dignify responding to wikipedia.
>
> On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 7:46 PM, Clay Claiborne  wrote:
>
> > On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 6:56 PM, Jeffrey Masko 
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Are you saying that's the screening of Birth was not the first ever in
> >> the WH? That Wilson was not a close friend of Thomas Dixon? Those facts,
> >> which ever way you want to spin them, are indisputable.
> >>
> >
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Dixon_Jr.
> >
> >> Attitudes toward revived Klan
> >>>
> >>> Dixon was not enthusiastic about the revived second era Ku Klux Klan
> >>>  _1915.E2.80.931944>.
> >>> He felt it was bigoted and in no way resembled the reconstruction
> Klan. He
> >>> called antisemitism 
> >>> "idiocy", noting that the mother of Jesus
> >>>  was Jewish
> >>>  and lauded the loyalty and good
> >>> citizenship of Catholics
> >>> . He also felt it
> >>> was the duty of whites to "lift up and help the weaker races".[26]
> >>> 
> >>>
> >> Please stop trying to teach me history. You are embarrassing yourself.
> >
> > Clay Claiborne, Director
> > Vietnam: American Holocaust 
> > Linux Beach Productions
> > Venice, CA 90291
> > (310) 581-1536
> >
> > Read my blogs at the Linux Beach 
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
>
> J.A. Masko
> College of Communications
> Penn State University
> State College, Pa 16801
>
>   "The challenge of modernity is to live without illusions and without
> becoming disillusioned."
>
>Antonio Gramsci.
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[Marxism] NewColdWar getting desperate??

2016-09-02 Thread Richard M via Marxism

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Roger Annis et al have been documenting the crimes of the age lately. No
mention, of course, of Russians bombing Syrian hospitals or such mundane
things like that - 



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[Marxism] some good history lessons 1900-1940, painlessly acquirable

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The Untold History of the United States by Peter Kuznick and Oliver Stone
began around 1900 but their ten-part documentary series for Showtime began
in 1940.  To fill in the gap between 1900 and 1940, they made two hour-long
prequels.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZBRcdy7ndI

This covers a lot of the material being discussed under the "Vote for
Clinton?" and related subject lines.

ML
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Re: [Marxism] Fwd: [Ku Klux Klan members supporting Barry Goldwater's campaign for the presidential nomination at the Republican National Convention, San Francisco, California, as an African American

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Earlier this week Amy Goodman, "for balance" did an exposure of Donald
Trump's racism by reporting that David Duke was supporting him. It was a
purposely weak "exposure" because it is so easy to defend against. Donald
Trump can rightly complain that he has no control over who voices support
for him and that is absolutely true.

Another Marxmail member took the same approach today by posting an
endorsement for Clinton from a CA Klan leader. When you drill down into the
story its clear this guy is endorsing Clinton as a Klan leader because it
would get him a lot of publicity.

Again, Clinton and no more stop this guy from speaking to the press no more
than Trump can stop Duke.

If Amy really wanted to expose Trump's connection to white nationalist she
would have covered some of the same material I have used about white
nationalists that Trump has endorsed by bringing them into his campaign.
Wer's was clearly a fake exposure.

That can also cover the case were the Klan endorsed Goldwater. The
important question that must follow is how did Goldwater respond to that
endorsement?

http://www.nytimes.com/1964/08/07/goldwater-bars-klan-aid.html?_r=0

> GETTYSBURG, Pa., Aug. 6—Senator Barry Goldwater and his Vice‐Presidential
>> running mate, Representative William E. Miller, met here today with former
>> President Dwight D. Eisenhower and Richard M. Nixon and solicited their
>> advice on the coming campaign.
>>
> In an informal conference after the meeting, Mr. Goldwater firmly
>> repudiated the Ku Klux Klan and said he did not want the support of
>> organizations bearing that name.
>>
> In rejecting support of the Klan, Mr. Goldwater seemed to have overruled
>> both Mr. Miller and the new Republican National Chairman, Dean Burch. In
>> recent days both of them have said that the Republicans would not reject
>> the support of Klansmen.
>>
> People on this list really need to learn history better. You reach back 50
years and Jeffrey reaches back 100 years in search of a presidential
candidate as racist as Trump and you both have failed miserably to make
your case.

Best Regards,

Clay

Clay Claiborne, Director
Vietnam: American Holocaust 
Linux Beach Productions
Venice, CA 90291
(310) 581-1536

Read my blogs at the Linux Beach 

On Thu, Sep 1, 2016 at 5:04 PM, Louis Proyect via Marxism <
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>
>
>
> http://www.loc.gov/pictures/item/2003673964/
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Re: [Marxism] Vote for Clinton?

2016-09-02 Thread Jeffrey Masko via Marxism

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This does not address the fact that the film was shown at the WH. And yes,
we should take the word of the author of The Klansmen, who thought the
reconstruction Klan was good thing and who wanted to "help the weaker
races." Do you hear yourself? I'll let your statements stand for themselves
and will not dignify responding to wikipedia.

On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 7:46 PM, Clay Claiborne  wrote:

> On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 6:56 PM, Jeffrey Masko 
> wrote:
>
>> Are you saying that's the screening of Birth was not the first ever in
>> the WH? That Wilson was not a close friend of Thomas Dixon? Those facts,
>> which ever way you want to spin them, are indisputable.
>>
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Dixon_Jr.
>
>> Attitudes toward revived Klan
>>>
>>> Dixon was not enthusiastic about the revived second era Ku Klux Klan
>>> .
>>> He felt it was bigoted and in no way resembled the reconstruction Klan. He
>>> called antisemitism 
>>> "idiocy", noting that the mother of Jesus
>>>  was Jewish
>>>  and lauded the loyalty and good
>>> citizenship of Catholics
>>> . He also felt it
>>> was the duty of whites to "lift up and help the weaker races".[26]
>>> 
>>>
>> Please stop trying to teach me history. You are embarrassing yourself.
>
> Clay Claiborne, Director
> Vietnam: American Holocaust 
> Linux Beach Productions
> Venice, CA 90291
> (310) 581-1536
>
> Read my blogs at the Linux Beach 
>
>
>

-- 

J.A. Masko
College of Communications
Penn State University
State College, Pa 16801

  "The challenge of modernity is to live without illusions and without
becoming disillusioned."

   Antonio Gramsci.
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Re: [Marxism] Vote for Clinton?

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On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 6:56 PM, Jeffrey Masko 
wrote:

> Are you saying that's the screening of Birth was not the first ever in
> the WH? That Wilson was not a close friend of Thomas Dixon? Those facts,
> which ever way you want to spin them, are indisputable.
>

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Dixon_Jr.

> Attitudes toward revived Klan
>>
>> Dixon was not enthusiastic about the revived second era Ku Klux Klan
>> .
>> He felt it was bigoted and in no way resembled the reconstruction Klan. He
>> called antisemitism 
>> "idiocy", noting that the mother of Jesus
>>  was Jewish
>>  and lauded the loyalty and good
>> citizenship of Catholics
>> . He also felt it
>> was the duty of whites to "lift up and help the weaker races".[26]
>> 
>>
> Please stop trying to teach me history. You are embarrassing yourself.

Clay Claiborne, Director
Vietnam: American Holocaust 
Linux Beach Productions
Venice, CA 90291
(310) 581-1536

Read my blogs at the Linux Beach 
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Re: [Marxism] Vote for Clinton?

2016-09-02 Thread DW via Marxism

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Hmmm...well...in many ways, Clay is restrained in his lesser-evilism.
Compared to some the crap that was thrown at Sander's during the primary
with typical "you have the privilege of voting for Sanders, I don't" sort
of pure unadulterated BS...Clay is lightweight here.

Also, I just learned Lenin was a neo-liberal economist! Wait...how did
Lenin sneak into the discussion. Deport his ass right now.

I gather this was around the open borders issue that also sort of shuck in
here. We don't have open borders and no candidate that I know of is
advocating it so why is it part of the discussion (no major party is, lot's
of socialist candidates do, however, I assume: PSL, SA, WWP etc).

Whatever...the always desperate ploy of
guilt-by-associating-one's-position-with-the-far-right is at play here.
That is a polemical tool I know so well. Reactionaries mix and match
positions depending on the circumstances. Of course neo-liberals generally
are for open borders (see the EU)...sometimes...and far-right reactionaries
(Le Pen, Trump...and Clinton) are for closing them.

20 years ago I was against NAFTA. Others on the left accused those on the
left who opposed NAFTA of "protectionism". They either refused to take a
position on NAFTA or ignored it. The more desperate argued for a "social
NAFTA" (see "Social Europe" the bankrupt Euro-left supports). Back then the
Mexican left and union movement was also opposed to NAFTA and it took
Zapitista rebellion...their single issue being opposition to the
implementation of NAFTA...to knock the US left upside the head about NAFTA
being THE tool of neoliberalism...that is privatization and austerity, not
to mention loss of sovereignty for Mexico.

But be careful... if you oppose NAFTA today it means...you are in the camp
of Trump...? Or Sanders? Or the Green Party? This is the problem with
defining your *position* based solely what the position of is of the *far
right* or by your political opponents. Fuck that shit! Take positions as it
relates *best* to defending our class against the real enemy...which the
ruling class and their toadies in the Democratic and Republican parties.

Clay complains against the "white nationalism" of the Trump camp. Lets
examine this. The main 'nationalist' position Trump takes is on
immigration. It dovetails with the Tea-Party wing (though of course his
economic policies...being 'nationalist'...are at odds with the Tea Party
historically) and with whose members overlap quite a bit with Trump's
positions. But beyond that...there is virtually no difference between Trump
*and his supporters* and that of the "traditional" Tea Party groupings.
Ergo...though I can't prove this I believe Clay's position would be exactly
the same if it was Cruz as the GOP nominee (a person who scares me a
helluva lot MORE than Trump does at every political level).

Trump getting elected would not mean, despite Clay's protestations to the
contrary "White Nationalism" in the White House. Certainly not via Trump
himself. But if you look at who were the staff members and advisors for
Ronald Reagan, these "alt-rightists" are in fact lightweight compared to
Reagan's advisors (Reagan was on the far-left of his advisory staff, just
so ha' know). Trumps overall positions don't vary that much with Clinton's.
Assuming we even really know his positions. With the exception of the
rhetorical talk about deporting 11 million undocumented workers and their
families...there isn't that much difference for people of color than we are
seeing from...Barrack "Depor 'em" Obama and Clinton. He can increase
funding to a 'special deportation brigade' or whatever he's advocating this
afternoon, but only by getting support in Congress. Secondly, besides a
huge number of unconstitutional Executive Orders there isn't much Trump can
do. Take NAFTA, which he says he opposes. Too late, it was ratified by the
Senate and can only be ratified by it. Trumps positions, to the degree they
are at odds with the GOP, means to get any of them implemented, he needs
support, which he has very little of. I suspect the Wall would get funded
after much rankling.

This whole debate, quite honestly, is the old Mussolini vs Hitler debate.
As it's gotten to this level, I see the differences between Trump (and what
he acutally do) and Clinton (and what she has actually done) a difference
without much of a distinction. In fact I would go so far and say that the
only thing stopping Trumpism is not Clinton but how we organize people
independent of these two. Because if we don't, it won't matter who is
POTUS.

David Walters
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Re: [Marxism] Vote for Clinton?

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Nice try at obscuring that white nationalists (not white male status
anxiety) driving the campaign. You had to stick to [illegal] immigration
and not even talk about the people - immigrates. If you strayed a bit - you
would have to incorporate the Trump campaign HATRED for Muslims and blacks
into your its all about neo-liberalism meme.

Obviously I can't speak for others on this list, but as a Marxist, I
support the free flow of labor across borders. There are no real
restrictions on the flow of capital but the capitalist impose it on labor -
in part by declaring a part of their labor "illegal", a label you clearly
endorse. As a Marxist I don't subscribe to Trump's brand of nationalism or
yours.

Excuse me now I have a chassis swap to attend to in DCOPs-DFW.

Best regards,

Clay

Clay Claiborne, Director
Vietnam: American Holocaust 
Linux Beach Productions
Venice, CA 90291
(310) 581-1536

Read my blogs at the Linux Beach 


On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 5:38 PM, Carl G. Estabrook 
wrote:

> [Trump’s attack on illegal immigration is an attack on neoliberalism - and
> the misery neoliberal policies have produced for much of the US population
> over the last 40 years - while enriching the 1%. The following is from <
> https://www.jacobinmag.com/2011/01/let-them-eat-diversity/>.]
>
> ...who’s for illegal immigration? As far as I know ... the only people who
> are openly for illegal immigration are neoliberal economists.
>
> First of all, neoliberal economists are completely for open borders, in
> so far as that’s possible. Friedman said years ago that, “You can’t have a
> welfare state and open borders,” but of course the point of that was “open
> the borders, because that’ll kill the welfare state.” There’s a good paper
> you can get off the web by Gordon Hanson, commissioned by whoever runs
> Foreign Affairs, and the argument is that illegal immigration is better
> than legal immigration, because illegal immigration is extremely responsive
> to market conditions.
>
> So it’s quite striking that you have all this protesting against illegal
> immigration, and especially at a time when it’s down. So why are people so
> upset about it? They are upset about it not because it has gotten worse, it
> hasn’t, but because they somehow recognize that one of the primary sort of
> marks of the triumph of neoliberalism in the US is a very high tolerance of
> illegal immigration, and that illegal immigration is the kind of ne plus
> ultra of the labor mobility that neoliberalism requires. I mean that’s why
> for years — even though it’s a kind of contradiction in terms — as a policy
> it’s worked well. The Bush administration did everything it could to talk
> against illegal immigration but leave it alone and I’m sure the Obama
> administration would do the same thing except its hand’s being forced by
> the Tea Party.
>
> ...The Tea Party thinks that immigrants are taking away their money. It’s
> not immigrants who are taking away their money; it’s neoliberalism that’s
> taking away their money. And this is true even though the Tea Party is a
> disproportionately upper middle class movement. There is some debate about
> that, but what theTimes survey shows, at least in part, is that Tea
> Partiers in general are richer than most Americans, closer to the top 20
> percent than they are to the middle. But if you look at the distribution of
> income in the last 10 years what you’re struck by is that the top 20
> percent looks like it’s done very well in relation to everyone else and the
> top 10 percent looks like it’s done very very well in relation to everyone
> else but it’s the top 1 percent who have really made out like bandits. And
> if you separate out the top 1 percent from the rest of the 19 that makes up
> the top 20, the 19 have more or less stayed still, they have not increased
> their proportion of the share of the US income very much over the past
> 10–15 years. Almost all the increase has gone to the top 1 percent. So you
> now have a threat even to the upper middle class, which for the first 15–20
> years of neoliberalism benefited from it tremendously, but which is now not
> exactly losing ground in relation to the country as a whole, but is losing
> ground in relation to this new phenomenon, this extraordinary success of
> the top 1, or to some extent, the top 5 percent. And you begin to see those
> people actually feeling a certain sense of anxiety...
>
> People always bridle when I say this, but I really doubt that the main
> issue here is white male status anxiety.

Re: [Marxism] [UCE] Re: Vote for Clinton?

2016-09-02 Thread Carl G. Estabrook via Marxism

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Probably more surprising that neoliberal economists are Leninists.

> On Sep 2, 2016, at 7:47 PM, Louis Proyect via Marxism 
>  wrote:
> 
> On 9/2/16 8:38 PM, Carl G. Estabrook via Marxism wrote:
>> First of all, neoliberal economists are completely for open borders, in so 
>> far as that’s possible.
> 
> I didn't realize that Lenin was a neoliberal economist. Imagine that.

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[Marxism] [UCE] Re: Vote for Clinton?


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On 9/2/16 8:38 PM, Carl G. Estabrook via Marxism wrote:

First of all, neoliberal economists are completely for open borders, in so far 
as that’s possible.


I didn't realize that Lenin was a neoliberal economist. Imagine that.
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Re: [Marxism] Vote for Clinton?

2016-09-02 Thread Carl G. Estabrook via Marxism

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[Trump’s attack on illegal immigration is an attack on neoliberalism - and the 
misery neoliberal policies have produced for much of the US population over the 
last 40 years - while enriching the 1%. The following is from 
>.]

...who’s for illegal immigration? As far as I know ... the only people who are 
openly for illegal immigration are neoliberal economists.

First of all, neoliberal economists are completely for open borders, in so far 
as that’s possible. Friedman said years ago that, “You can’t have a welfare 
state and open borders,” but of course the point of that was “open the borders, 
because that’ll kill the welfare state.” There’s a good paper you can get off 
the web by Gordon Hanson, commissioned by whoever runs Foreign Affairs, and the 
argument is that illegal immigration is better than legal immigration, because 
illegal immigration is extremely responsive to market conditions.

So it’s quite striking that you have all this protesting against illegal 
immigration, and especially at a time when it’s down. So why are people so 
upset about it? They are upset about it not because it has gotten worse, it 
hasn’t, but because they somehow recognize that one of the primary sort of 
marks of the triumph of neoliberalism in the US is a very high tolerance of 
illegal immigration, and that illegal immigration is the kind of ne plus ultra 
of the labor mobility that neoliberalism requires. I mean that’s why for years 
— even though it’s a kind of contradiction in terms — as a policy it’s worked 
well. The Bush administration did everything it could to talk against illegal 
immigration but leave it alone and I’m sure the Obama administration would do 
the same thing except its hand’s being forced by the Tea Party. 

...The Tea Party thinks that immigrants are taking away their money. It’s not 
immigrants who are taking away their money; it’s neoliberalism that’s taking 
away their money. And this is true even though the Tea Party is a 
disproportionately upper middle class movement. There is some debate about 
that, but what theTimes survey shows, at least in part, is that Tea Partiers in 
general are richer than most Americans, closer to the top 20 percent than they 
are to the middle. But if you look at the distribution of income in the last 10 
years what you’re struck by is that the top 20 percent looks like it’s done 
very well in relation to everyone else and the top 10 percent looks like it’s 
done very very well in relation to everyone else but it’s the top 1 percent who 
have really made out like bandits. And if you separate out the top 1 percent 
from the rest of the 19 that makes up the top 20, the 19 have more or less 
stayed still, they have not increased their proportion of the share of the US 
income very much over the past 10–15 years. Almost all the increase has gone to 
the top 1 percent. So you now have a threat even to the upper middle class, 
which for the first 15–20 years of neoliberalism benefited from it 
tremendously, but which is now not exactly losing ground in relation to the 
country as a whole, but is losing ground in relation to this new phenomenon, 
this extraordinary success of the top 1, or to some extent, the top 5 percent. 
And you begin to see those people actually feeling a certain sense of anxiety...

People always bridle when I say this, but I really doubt that the main issue 
here is white male status anxiety. Obviously I’m not in a position to say there 
aren’t people who are experiencing it. What I’m saying is that people in the 
Tea Party movement have a problem that is realer than “white male status 
anxiety,” that the economic shifts that are taking place, the more and more 
extreme inequality, the more and more going to the top, no doubt some people 
may be unhappy because of loss of status, but many millions more are going to 
be unhappy because of the loss of actual money. So my point isn’t really to 
deny the phenomenon of status anxiety, it’s just to point out the 
extraordinaire eagerness of American liberals to identify racism as the 
problem, so that anti-racism (rather than anti-capitalism) can be the 
solution...

—CGE

> On Sep 2, 2016, at 10:15 AM, Clay Claiborne via Marxism 
>  wrote:
> 
> I am so amazed that people on this list aren't more troubled by Trump's
> racism. Did you hear his speech on immigration?
> 
> Nobody here comments.Nobody here cares. Where are the exposures of Trump's
> white nationalist connections.
> 
> I feel like the treachery of the

Re: [Marxism] Vote for Clinton?

2016-09-02 Thread Manuel Barrera via Marxism

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Clay--and everyone--it is difficult not to get incensed when such issues as 
giving critical support to an imperialist warmonger (because you fear a 
potential fascist imperialist warmonger) on one hand and the fear that the 
bourgeois elections may actually initiate a new wave of repression and 
state-sanctioned racist slaughter at the hands of police at the behest of 
capitalist government on the other. 

Let me assure you, Clay. It is likely that this wave of racist mayhem will 
continue--regardless who is elected--because it is in the interests of the 
capitalist class to foment ever more strident divisions and perpetuate the 
facade of both White and U.S. working class privilege (among all "colors").  
If you truly consider yourself a Marxist, you would understand that very 
warranted fear of yours has a material basis and not one based on the person in 
power. You should easily see that if you've even casually observed the last 8 
years through the leadership of capitalism from a Black president. 
The only reason that this racism and slaughter will abate is if the masses 
finally step into the picture saying we have had Enough! It is not the small 
population of true racists in the U.S. that is likely to hold sway, but the 
will--hampered by state-developed confusion, miseducation, and media 
manipulation--of the vast majority of working people--ESPECIALLY the Oppressed 
who need to come to the fore. That is why the focus on Clinton and not on 
Trump. There is no blind spot here; Only fear. 
The historical crisis of leadership of the working masses is not just an 
observation but a firm reality. Ask yourself how supporting Clinton will remove 
the blinders from this fact? Ask yourself how you can so clearly see the 
relevance and bravery of the Syrian masses to the actual anti-imperialist 
struggle and not see the blunder in supporting the imperialist demagogue 
Clinton because you fear she will be less a threat than the racist demagogue 
Trump? Neither of these individuals matters because what they both stand to 
support is the same class rule, the same need to divide the masses, the same 
need to intensify the militarization and occupation of the oppressed in this 
country, and the continued need to produce new opportunities for profitability 
at the expense of the people of the world and of our planet. 

Unfortunately, I don't expect you to change your mind; you seem too bent on 
your fears and blindness. I just hope you will still end up on the side of the 
working class when this reality sets in. It is likely that Clinton will win and 
apparently you--and your fear and blindness--will have contributed. It is 
likely to happen because the masses, right now, will believe you when you say 
that there truly is a "lesser evil" when there is actually not. 

Just remember to return to the side of the oppressed when you are done. You're 
no more of a "diva" than most of the other folk here (including our moderator), 
 but please remember that treachery is also a material, class-based phenomenon. 
It is NEVER about what you say, but about what you do--or did. The road to 
betrayal is paved by a single word. Or vote. Redemption requires a history of 
effort. Just remember.
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Re: [Marxism] Vote for Clinton?

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I call you neither, Clay.  And I don't see name-calling as worthwhile.

I just don't think that the only way to not politically jump into bed with
the KKK is to politically jump into bed with a Grand Dragon of the KKK and
support Clinton.
http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2016-03-14/ku-klux-klan-grand-dragon-will-quigg-endorses-hillary-clinton-for-president
.

ML
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Re: [Marxism] Vote for Clinton?


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On 9/2/16 4:00 PM, Clay Claiborne via Marxism wrote:


Is calling someone a diva okay on this list? Apparently you can call
someone a traitor just no too often.


Exactly. I keep count. For example, Joaquin wrote a terribly provocative 
attack on the list a couple of weeks ago. I let it slip but wasn't happy 
about it. If he kept at it for 3 or 4 days, I would have taken some 
action. I understand that people have strong feelings but I have to 
serve as a moderator to make sure flame wars don't erupt because in the 
past they have tended to make good people unsub.

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[Marxism] [UCE] Fwd: Assad Regime to Besieged Aleppo: Surrender or Starve | The Nation


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The Nation's token article on the truth about Syria for this year, I guess.

https://www.thenation.com/article/assad-regime-to-besieged-aleppo-surrender-or-starve/
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Re: [Marxism] Vote for Clinton?

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Don't worry about me. As to the race-baiting charge - when that is used
against black people it is in support of the notion that racism is about
name calling and so equally you have white racists and black racists. It is
designed to obscure the fact that racism is white supremacy and is a
social, political and economic system with a 500 year history.

That is why I tend to use the terms white nationalism and white supremacy
instead.

Clay Claiborne, Director
Vietnam: American Holocaust 
Linux Beach Productions
Venice, CA 90291
(310) 581-1536

Read my blogs at the Linux Beach 

On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 12:07 PM, Dennis Brasky 
wrote:

> In light of Clay's excellent work in defending the Syrian Revolution, it
> is especially sad, but not surprising given his commentary this past week,
> that he would descend to the level of race-baiting to justify his
> capitulation to bourgeois lesser evilism. Hopefully I'm wrong, but it looks
> like another revolutionary de-fanged by the Democratic Party.
>
> On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 1:15 PM, Clay Claiborne via Marxism <
> marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu> wrote:
>
>
>> Thanks, I didn't know that. Obviously, I like other black people that have
>> live all our lives in the US need to learn a bit more about the history of
>> racism in the US from people like you.
>>
>> But you are the one inviting the KKK into the WH by pretending that its
>> been there all along.
>>
>> Somehow I expect I will be affected by the changes more than you, in fact,
>> I think I'm already being effected by the changes.
>>
>> I don't know. Maybe you've been subjected to an up tick in racist slights
>> as a result of the hate filled rhetoric of the Clinton campaign. Is that
>> it?
>>
>>
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Re: [Marxism] Vote for Clinton?

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I have lived in the the police-prison-industrial complex, Trump is more
awful.

Is calling someone a diva okay on this list? Apparently you can call
someone a traitor just no too often.

Clay Claiborne, Director
Vietnam: American Holocaust 
Linux Beach Productions
Venice, CA 90291
(310) 581-1536

Read my blogs at the Linux Beach 


On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 11:28 AM, Andrew Stewart  wrote:

> I'm so amazed you are advocating for voting for someone who arms fascists
> at home and abroad in the name of your la-la land fantasies about Trump
> being more awful than the police-prison-industrial complex. Quite being
> such a diva.
>
>
> ---
> I am so amazed that people on this list aren't more troubled by Trump's
> racism. Did you hear his speech on immigration?
>
> Nobody here comments.Nobody here cares. Where are the exposures of Trump's
> white nationalist connections.
>
> I feel like the treachery of the "anti-imperialist" Left,which is no
> stranger to white chauvinism, has come home/
>
> Clay Claiborne, Director
> Vietnam: American Holocaust 
> Linux Beach Productions
> Venice, CA 90291
> (310) 581-1536
>
> --
> Best regards,
>
> Andrew Stewart
>
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Re: [Marxism] Vote for Clinton?

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You have to go back over a hundred years for a comparable?

And even then it rings false.

Trump has brought the leadership [Breitbart] of the white nationalist
movement to top of his campaign -meaning they will be in the WH. You can't
say that about Wilson. In terms of what you did say:

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/07/opinion/woodrow-wilson-and-the-klan.html?_r=0

This far-fetched statement seems to be based on a claim, first made in
> 1937, 13 years after Wilson’s death, that he said of the 1915 movie “Birth
> of a Nation”: “It’s like writing history with lightning. And my only regret
> is that it is all so terribly true.”
>
> Both of Wilson’s most recent biographers conclude that the quotation is
> almost certainly apocryphal. What Wilson did unquestionably write about the
> film, in 1918, was that “I have always felt that this was a very
> unfortunate production, and I wish most sincerely that its production might
> be avoided, particularly in communities where there are so many colored
> people.”
>
> At any rate, praising the film — which was, despite its odious content, an
> extraordinary technical achievement in cinema — hardly implies admiration
> for the Klan.
>
Like Vijay P with his "we came, we saw, we killed" misquote, You are
distorting history to promote a Trump presidency so please don't try to
teach history to me.

Best regards,

Clay

Clay Claiborne, Director
Vietnam: American Holocaust 
Linux Beach Productions
Venice, CA 90291
(310) 581-1536

Read my blogs at the Linux Beach 


On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 10:30 AM, Jeffrey Masko 
wrote:

> "But you are the one inviting the KKK into the WH by pretending that its
> been there all along."
>
> It has been in the WH for over a hundred years. I'm sure you merely forgot
> this historical moment, so let me remind you. From the radicals over at PBS:
>
> "On the evening of March 21, 1915, President *Woodrow Wilson* attended a
> special screening at the White House of THE *BIRTH OF A NATION*, a film
> directed by D.W. Griffith and based on THE CLANSMAN, a novel written by
> *Wilson's* good friend Thomas Dixon.
> The Birth of a Nation - PBS
> 
>
>
>
>
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Re: [Marxism] Vote for Clinton?

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Decent people can sometimes develop wilful blind spots about the past,
Clay, particularly if you become obsessed with an essentially intramural
bourgeois political contest.

You are arguing for one of the authors of phony War on Drugs and the mass
incarceration of young African-Americans.  I don't agree with that, but I
can certainly accept it, given that we live in a batcrap crazy political
system.

What I take direct issue with you is your statement that people who favor
other candidates who don't buy into the War on Drugs and oppose those mass
incarcerations are shilling for the KKK.  There are any number of
explanations over why someone would write something like that.

The kindest interpretation is that you've developed an unfortunate blind
spot about the record ,. . . .

ML
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Re: [Marxism] Vote for Clinton?

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In light of Clay's excellent work in defending the Syrian Revolution, it is
especially sad, but not surprising given his commentary this past week,
that he would descend to the level of race-baiting to justify his
capitulation to bourgeois lesser evilism. Hopefully I'm wrong, but it looks
like another revolutionary de-fanged by the Democratic Party.

On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 1:15 PM, Clay Claiborne via Marxism <
marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu> wrote:

> Thanks, I didn't know that. Obviously, I like other black people that have
> live all our lives in the US need to learn a bit more about the history of
> racism in the US from people like you.
>
> But you are the one inviting the KKK into the WH by pretending that its
> been there all along.
>
> Somehow I expect I will be affected by the changes more than you, in fact,
> I think I'm already being effected by the changes.
>
> I don't know. Maybe you've been subjected to an up tick in racist slights
> as a result of the hate filled rhetoric of the Clinton campaign. Is that
> it?
>
>
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[Marxism] Fwd: Every Cook Can Govern | Louis Proyect: The Unrepentant Marxist


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Among the more than a thousand films I have reviewed over the past 24 
years, “Every Cook Can Govern: Documenting the life, impact & works of 
CLR James”  earns pride of place as the most intelligent, serious and 
passionate application of Marxism that I have seen. I strongly urge 
buying the DVD from the film’s website since it is not only a study of 
arguably the most important Marxist thinker since the death of Leon 
Trotsky but a chronicle of some of the major events of the 20th century 
class struggle that shaped James’s career. The documentary brings 
together the most respected CLR James scholars (among them Paul Buhle, 
Scott McLemee and Kent Worcester) as well as family members such as his 
former partner Selma James and his nephew Darcus Howe, a revolutionary 
activist and major thinker in his own right. Finally, you can see James 
himself discussing his life-long career as a revolutionary that 
culminated with what he considered his greatest achievement—helping to 
destroy Stalinism.


When I joined the Socialist Workers Party in 1967, veterans would always 
speak derisively of those dissidents who eventually found themselves 
removed either voluntarily or involuntarily from the group that Leon 
Trotsky considered the gold standard of his ill-fated Fourth 
International. CLR James was the leader of a tendency in the party along 
with Raya Dunayevskaya, who wrote articles under the names of Johnson 
and Forest. When the standard turned out to be made of fool’s gold, I 
made it a point to read the “renegades” who were always portrayed as 
fleeing helter-skelter from Marxism. James’s writings were an epiphany 
for me. All the appetites that I had suppressed in the SWP could be 
satisfied by reading James, especially his brilliant discussions of both 
high and popular culture. James was not only capable of writing on 
Shakespeare and Herman Melville. He also wrote “Beyond a Boundary”, a 
combination memoir and salute to the game of cricket. Indeed, the title 
of that book expressed my vision of the kind of Marxism that was 
necessary, one that sought to transcend sterile sectarian divisions on 
the left.


full: https://louisproyect.org/2016/09/02/every-cook-can-govern/
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Re: [Marxism] Vote for Clinton?

2016-09-02 Thread Andrew Stewart via Marxism

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I'm so amazed you are advocating for voting for someone who arms fascists
at home and abroad in the name of your la-la land fantasies about Trump
being more awful than the police-prison-industrial complex. Quite being
such a diva.


---
I am so amazed that people on this list aren't more troubled by Trump's
racism. Did you hear his speech on immigration?

Nobody here comments.Nobody here cares. Where are the exposures of Trump's
white nationalist connections.

I feel like the treachery of the "anti-imperialist" Left,which is no
stranger to white chauvinism, has come home/

Clay Claiborne, Director
Vietnam: American Holocaust 
Linux Beach Productions
Venice, CA 90291
(310) 581-1536

-- 
Best regards,

Andrew Stewart
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Re: [Marxism] Vote for Clinton?

2016-09-02 Thread Jeffrey Masko via Marxism

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"But you are the one inviting the KKK into the WH by pretending that its
been there all along."

It has been in the WH for over a hundred years. I'm sure you merely forgot
this historical moment, so let me remind you. From the radicals over at PBS:

"On the evening of March 21, 1915, President *Woodrow Wilson* attended a
special screening at the White House of THE *BIRTH OF A NATION*, a film
directed by D.W. Griffith and based on THE CLANSMAN, a novel written by
*Wilson's* good friend Thomas Dixon.
The Birth of a Nation - PBS

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Re: [Marxism] Vote for Clinton?

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Thanks, I didn't know that. Obviously, I like other black people that have
live all our lives in the US need to learn a bit more about the history of
racism in the US from people like you.

But you are the one inviting the KKK into the WH by pretending that its
been there all along.

Somehow I expect I will be affected by the changes more than you, in fact,
I think I'm already being effected by the changes.

I don't know. Maybe you've been subjected to an up tick in racist slights
as a result of the hate filled rhetoric of the Clinton campaign. Is that it?

Clay

Clay Claiborne, Director
Vietnam: American Holocaust 
Linux Beach Productions
Venice, CA 90291
(310) 581-1536

Read my blogs at the Linux Beach 

On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 9:05 AM, Mark Lause  wrote:

> I am so much more amazed that people on this list--"Marxists" and
> grown-ups no less--who claim that's it's something remarkable and new to
> find racism at the heart of power politics in the U.S.
>
> People need to learn a bit more about the history of all this, I think.
>
>
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Re: [Marxism] Vote for Clinton?

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I am so much more amazed that people on this list--"Marxists" and grown-ups
no less--who claim that's it's something remarkable and new to find racism
at the heart of power politics in the U.S.

People need to learn a bit more about the history of all this, I think.
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[Marxism] Ben Gurion’s Plan for Regional Conquest and Israeli Empire

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Ben Gurion’s Plan for Regional Conquest and Israeli Empire

The irony here is that it is Israeli advocates who continually claim that
conspiring Palestinian militants only accept Israel on an interim basis
until they are powerful enough to eradicate it. Therefore, Israel may
never trust such enemies and never make peace with them; because a knife in
the back is the only future Israel can expect from them. We can see that
it is Israel that the Arab states had reason to distrust.

Another bitter irony is the claim by Israel and anti-Iran forces in the
U.S. and elsewhere, that Iran has a nefarious plan to spread Shia hegemony
throughout the Middle East to Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, and the Gulf region.
In truth, Ben Gurion shows that Iran is a piker by comparison. He
envisioned a Greater Israel not just from the river (Jordan) to the sea
(Mediterranean), but a Davidic imperium spreading its influence from Syria
to Egypt. Even those Arab states Israel permitted to remain would be
little more than vassals of this new regional Goliath.

http://www.richardsilverstein.com/2016/09/01/ben-gurions-plan-regional-conquest/?utm_source=feedburner_medium=email_campaign=Feed%3A+richardsilverstein%2FZOfh+%28+Tikun+Olam-%D7%AA%D7%A7%D7%95%D7%9F+%D7%A2%D7%95%D7%9C%D7%9D%3A+Make+the+World+a+Better+Place%29
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[Marxism] Moderator's note


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On 9/2/16 11:15 AM, Clay Claiborne via Marxism wrote:


I feel like the treachery of the "anti-imperialist" Left,which is no
stranger to white chauvinism, has come home/



Stop name-calling, Clay. Calling people traitors is strictly prohibited 
here. The Marxism list that preceded this one was destroyed by that kind 
of invective. In fact the 60s left imploded because every major 
political difference was escalated into exposing traitors to the left. I 
saw the SWP collapse because dissidents were regarded as a "petty 
bourgeois" opposition while the Maoists were always splitting over who 
was the "revisionist". I don't mind heated debates but try to stick to 
the issues.

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Re: [Marxism] Vote for Clinton?

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I am so amazed that people on this list aren't more troubled by Trump's
racism. Did you hear his speech on immigration?

Nobody here comments.Nobody here cares. Where are the exposures of Trump's
white nationalist connections.

I feel like the treachery of the "anti-imperialist" Left,which is no
stranger to white chauvinism, has come home/

Clay Claiborne, Director
Vietnam: American Holocaust 
Linux Beach Productions
Venice, CA 90291
(310) 581-1536

Read my blogs at the Linux Beach 

On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 8:09 AM, Mark Lause  wrote:

> On the polls . . . .the predisposition of the media is to keep as many
> people watching the horse race as possible.  This plays out as a
> predisposition to cover the lesser of the two candidates acceptable to
> them.   This also increases the tendency of voters to think that they have
> to vote for one or the other of them to keep the one that scares them most
> from winning.
>
> We've seen this happen with Trump repeatedly since he declared his
> candidacy.  He talks his campaign into the ground, so the media responds by
> giving him more air time.  Even if it's more air time to imply that he's a
> trainwreck, it's more air time.  Then his polls numbers nudge up.
>
> This is an old game.
>
> ML
>
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Re: [Marxism] Vote for Clinton?

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On the polls . . . .the predisposition of the media is to keep as many
people watching the horse race as possible.  This plays out as a
predisposition to cover the lesser of the two candidates acceptable to
them.   This also increases the tendency of voters to think that they have
to vote for one or the other of them to keep the one that scares them most
from winning.

We've seen this happen with Trump repeatedly since he declared his
candidacy.  He talks his campaign into the ground, so the media responds by
giving him more air time.  Even if it's more air time to imply that he's a
trainwreck, it's more air time.  Then his polls numbers nudge up.

This is an old game.

ML
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Re: [Marxism] Vote for Clinton?

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Your question is not based on reality. 1) Syria is not a binary choice, 8
Nov is.
2.) ISIS is not an opposition force, they work in conclusion with Assad.

The relationship of ISIS to the Assad regime is actually must closer to the
relationship of the Green Party to the Trump campaign - namely appearing to
oppose in rhetoric while objectively supporting.

The question for the Green Party, Democracy Now, and the rest of the
anti-imperialist Left that have joined the "anyone but Clinton camp" when
all the non-white Americans have clearly joined joined the "anybody but the
white nationalist Trump camp" is how this white Left will explain its
backhanded support for Trump if he wins and starts brutal deportations and
stepping up the murder of blacks.

Maybe Louis can explain how Goldwater tricked him in '64.

Clay Claiborne, Director
Vietnam: American Holocaust 
Linux Beach Productions
Venice, CA 90291
(310) 581-1536

Read my blogs at the Linux Beach 

On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 5:33 AM, Dennis Brasky via Marxism <
marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu> wrote:

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>
> A question for Clay - by all indications, thanks to Russian bombing and the
> continued intervention of Iran and its Shia proxies from Iraq and
> Afghanistan, the fascist Assad regime, responsible for about 500,000 dead
> and millions of refugees, remains in power. The rebels are without anti
> aircraft weaponry and are clearly on the defensive. In this situation, only
> ISIS has a "realistic" chance of defeating Assad. Should we support them or
> divert energy to a hopeless cause?
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[Marxism] Fwd: Kaepernick social media posts laud Black Lives Matter, Black Panthers since dating activist DJ | Fox News


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http://www.foxnews.com/sports/2016/08/30/kaepernick-social-media-posts-laud-black-lives-matter-black-panthers-since-dating-activist-dj.html
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[Marxism] [UCE] Fwd: Public Books — Sex and Socialism


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Three recent books tell the stories of four women whose lives both 
absorbed and propelled the vast, multifaceted socialist movement in 
Britain from 1870 to 1920: Lizzie Burns, Nellie Dowell, Muriel Lester, 
and Eleanor Marx. While all of them played roles in the struggle for 
equality of class, wealth, and opportunity, and all of their lives were 
determined in large part by the men that surrounded them, each had very 
different relationships to literacy, learning, and privilege. Together, 
the lives of these four women reveal the centrality of patriarchy to 
capitalism, a fact that capitalism’s early critics did not themselves 
grasp. Though their struggles were arduous and their successes partial, 
all four sought a revolution in personal as well as economic relationships.


full: http://www.publicbooks.org//multigenre/sex-and-socialism
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Re: [Marxism] Assad turns Syria’s hospitals into death traps as part of a “kneel or starve” policy

2016-09-02 Thread Andrew Pollack via Marxism

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http://www.economist.com/news/middle-east-and-africa/21706225-dr-assad-turns-syrias-hospitals-death-traps-part-kneel-or-starve

On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 10:19 AM, Thomas via Marxism <
marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu> wrote:

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>
> DEAD LINK
>
> T
>
>
> -Original Message-
> >From: Dennis Brasky via Marxism 
> >Sent: Sep 2, 2016 9:34 AM
> >To: Thomas F Barton 
> >Subject: [Marxism] Assad turns Syria’s hospitals into death traps as part
> of a “kneel or starve” policy
> >
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> >
> >http://www.economist.com/news/middle-east-and-africa/
> >21706225-dr-assad-turns-syrias-hospitals-death-traps-
> >part-kneel-or-starve?fsrc=scn/tw_ec/the_ultimate_barbarity
> >_
> >et
>
>
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Re: [Marxism] Assad turns Syria’s hospitals into death traps as part of a “kneel or starve” policy

2016-09-02 Thread Thomas via Marxism

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DEAD LINK

T


-Original Message-
>From: Dennis Brasky via Marxism 
>Sent: Sep 2, 2016 9:34 AM
>To: Thomas F Barton 
>Subject: [Marxism] Assad turns Syria’s hospitals into death traps as part of a 
>“kneel or starve” policy
>
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>
>http://www.economist.com/news/middle-east-and-africa/
>21706225-dr-assad-turns-syrias-hospitals-death-traps-
>part-kneel-or-starve?fsrc=scn/tw_ec/the_ultimate_barbarity
>_
>et


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[Marxism] Assad turns Syria’s hospitals into death traps as part of a “kneel or starve” policy

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http://www.economist.com/news/middle-east-and-africa/
21706225-dr-assad-turns-syrias-hospitals-death-traps-
part-kneel-or-starve?fsrc=scn/tw_ec/the_ultimate_barbarity
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[Marxism] Attica Means Fight Back!

2016-09-02 Thread Ron Jacobs via Marxism

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http://stillhomeron.blogspot.com/2016/09/attica-means-fight-back.html
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[Marxism] Fwd: Colin Kaepernick’s Haters Ignored the NFL’s Real Patriotism-for-Pay Scandal - The Daily Beast


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Sitting through the anthem is a form of respectful protest—one that 
Kaepernick, fighting for the starting quarterback role for the San 
Francisco 49ers, is doing at real risk to his career given the huge 
backlash, including fans burning his jersey and executives on other 
teams declaring that they want nothing to do with him.
The 49ers, on the other hand, a franchise worth a staggering $2.7 
billion, nonetheless bothered to pocket $125,000 in change to pretend to 
respect the troops. When the team faces off in San Diego against the 
Chargers tonight, it will be at the home team’s “salute to the military 
night”—a Thursday night pre-season game. Which makes sense, now that the 
team no longer collects cash ($453,500, according to the senators’ 
report) for putting on flag presentations and color guard ceremonies.
That was pimping out patriotism, and spitting on the flag. Trump and his 
gang didn’t even notice.


full: 
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/09/01/colin-kaepernick-s-haters-ignored-the-nfl-s-real-patriotism-for-pay-scandal.html

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[Marxism] Fwd: The Siege of Leningrad, Nazis and the Untold History of World War II in Russia and Estonia - Truthdig


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We stepped back into the street, like new people. Astounded. The 
sweeping view of domes, spires, the glint of sunlight on water—all of it 
looked different now. We felt transformed, really, with a profound new 
respect for our Russian hosts, and fascinated by the stories nations 
tell themselves. Important things were missing from the exhibition, as 
we found out later. Stalin and his apparatchiks failed to evacuate 
Leningrad or to stockpile food, with horrifying consequences. Families 
ate house cats, sawdust, wallpaper paste, and finally, faced the 
terrible choice of whether to eat human meat or starve. Regardless of 
the museum’s missing pieces, though, the suffering and heroism of the 
people of Leningrad was undeniable.


full: 
http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/untold_history_of_world_war_ii_on_the_road_in_russia_and_estonia_20160831

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Re: [Marxism] Vote for Clinton?

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A question for Clay - by all indications, thanks to Russian bombing and the
continued intervention of Iran and its Shia proxies from Iraq and
Afghanistan, the fascist Assad regime, responsible for about 500,000 dead
and millions of refugees, remains in power. The rebels are without anti
aircraft weaponry and are clearly on the defensive. In this situation, only
ISIS has a "realistic" chance of defeating Assad. Should we support them or
divert energy to a hopeless cause?
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Re: [Marxism] Fwd: The 'pink tide' in crisis - Al Jazeera English

2016-09-02 Thread Andrew Pollack via Marxism

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yes, one country won't do it; but how did the Pinks' plans for ALBA etc.
fare?
by the way, if the Tiders weren't so reactionary on MENA tyrants they could
have made part of their strategy seeking support from countries in that
region after their revolutions.
Anyway, looking forward to Jeffrey Webber's take on this.
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[Marxism] Fwd: Fwd: The 'pink tide' in crisis - Al Jazeera English

2016-09-02 Thread Andrew Pollack via Marxism

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It's not just about the co-op miners. In even the healthiest revolution the
fragmentation and differentiation of the exploited classes pose
difficulties.
It's about the top-down reformist nature of all the parties in the Pink
Tide.

-- Forwarded message --
From: Stuart Munckton via Marxism 
Date: Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 8:07 AM
Subject: Re: [Marxism] Fwd: The 'pink tide' in crisis - Al Jazeera English
To: acpolla...@gmail.com
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Re: [Marxism] Fwd: The 'pink tide' in crisis - Al Jazeera English


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On 9/2/16 8:07 AM, Stuart Munckton wrote:

It is a slightly strange piece. Pitting the government against "the
country's social movements", well, actually in this case against
cooperative miners, who themselves have been in often violent conflict

with the miners in the state  industry -- which is "social movement
against social movement", in which the government int he past had to
walk a minefield to try to resolve.


I posted this comment on Richard's FB timeline:

So, how would a "socialism from below" government deal with the 
consequences of declining commodity prices? Essentially, the "pink tide" 
governments have been confronted with the same harsh realities as Syriza 
in Greece. A government might be led by conscious Marxists who have 
fully absorbed the lessons of Tony Cliff but you can't build socialism 
from below in a single country, right?

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[Marxism] Fwd: The 'pink tide' in crisis - Al Jazeera English


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by Richard Seymour

The astonishing killing of Bolivia's Deputy Interior Minister Rodolfo 
Illanes by striking miners has, not for the first time, pitted the 
government headed by Evo Morales against the country's social movements. 
The minister's death follows the killing of protesting miners by police.


Part of the shock is that Morales' government came to power after 
insurrectionary social conflicts in which his movement of coca growers 
allied with miners and other groups of workers fought with the 
government and multinational firms.


full: 
http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2016/09/pink-tide-crisis-160901141249690.html

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Re: [Marxism] Vote for Clinton?