Re: [Marxism] Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez’s appearance wows SF’s Mission. Her speech not so much. - Mission Local

[Dan Michniewicz via Marxism]

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Here's that write-up on Ocasio-Cortez's visit to Michigan.

https://thebaffler.com/the-poverty-of-theory/the-vital-possibility-of-el-sayed-alvarez

And here's El-Sayed's response to a question about DSA:

And have you reached out to groups like DSA or sought their endorsement?”

*El-Sayed*: “We’ve had great conversations, and we share a lot of ideals,
[but] I don’t like labels. Here’s the thing: in science, one of the
concepts you start to appreciate deeply is that a large portion of science
is about replicability. And replicability implies that you can communicate
the same shared set of ideas universally. If a word has slippery meanings,
and there’s slippage in the way the word works for people, then you
miscommunicate, and when you miscommunicate you can’t replicate, and when
you can’t replicate that’s the death of science.

“I come from that world, where we pick our words very carefully and very
thoughtfully. And I think that the term “socialism” is too slippery of a
word right now, and it evokes too many different things to too many
different people. I think for a millennial the word “socialism” is spelled
with a lower-case “s,” and it implies an engagement of government in some
of the most important aspects of our lives to ensure and address a level of
equity that we have not had . . . And then, I think for people who are over
the age of sixty, it implies a history that was some of the most fearful in
their lives. And I think because it evokes different meanings politically
it’s just not a useful term.

And so, I don’t really care that much about the [socialist] label, I care
about the work . . . I respect what DSA is working on and what they do. We
have a lot we share—a lot in common. I consider us to be sister and
brothers in the work.”

On Tue, Aug 7, 2018, 11:35 AM Mark Lause via Marxism <
marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu> wrote:

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>
>  I don't think there's any inconsistency between electoral politics in the
> here and now with "pragmatism."
>
> Her explicit falsification of Democratic party history--I think that was at
> that recent conference of "progressive" Democrats--was absolutely BS.
>
> ML
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Re: [Marxism] Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez’s appearance wows SF’s Mission. Her speech not so much. - Mission Local

[Dan Michniewicz via Marxism]

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Yeah during Ocasio-Cortez's recent appearence in Ypsilanti, MI with Abdul
El-Sayed candidate in Dem primary for Gov here, AOC substituted
"progressivism" for "socialism" I  her speech. My guess *was* that she did
this at the request of El-Sayed, who doesn't use the dem socialist label
but is supported by AOC and Sanders and shares their socdem platforms.
Maximillian Alvarez of the Baffler asked El-Sayed why he doesn't call
himself a socialist, but I don't think the response made it into Max's
write-up of AOC's joint appearances with him the other weekend.  I will try
to share the response shortly.

On Mon, Aug 6, 2018, 8:29 PM Louis Proyect via Marxism <
marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu> wrote:

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>
> (Maybe there's hope for the DSA.)
>
> As such, following Ocasio-Cortez’s 20-minute speech, Alisha Foster, a
> member of the Democratic Socialists of America, said she would have
> liked for the candidate to have been more “explicitly socialist.”
>
> “It felt like a watered-down message. She was jumping around and
> discussing tactics for getting elected, but she avoided the big issue,
> which is capitalism.”
>
>
>
> https://missionlocal.org/2018/08/alexandria-ocasio-cortezs-appearance-wows-sfs-mission-her-speech-not-so-much/
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Re: [Marxism] Michigan OKs Nestlé Water Extraction, Despite 80K+ Public Comments Against It : The Two-Way : NPR

[Dan Michniewicz via Marxism]

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Nestle is extracting fresh water for next to nothing while Flint residents
still can't drink water from their faucets. In many locations including
Livingston County in Michigan, where I'm originally from, they are rapidly
building infrastructure to extract gas through fracking. On top of that,
we've got an aging pipeline running through the straits of Mackinac (Line
5), ready to spill millions of gallons of oil into a system that contains
21% of the world's freshwater.

Things are bad here in Michigan.

On Wed, Apr 4, 2018 at 12:27 PM, Louis Proyect via Marxism <
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> https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2018/04/03/599207550
> /michigan-oks-nestl-water-extraction-despite-over-80k-
> public-comments-against-it
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Re: [Marxism] Punching Nazis Revisited

[Dan Michniewicz via Marxism]

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Yeah if we had enough people turn out the Nazis probably would not have
marched right into us, so you are right about that. That said, press
estimated anywhere from 500 to 1,000, which is quite a bit of people for a
small Midwest city. Our numbers were diminished by the fact that the faith
community and MSU college dems/republicans held a separate event far away
from the venue. Wonder which event Louis here would have turned out for.
There were many at the protest outside the venue who were not looking for a
fight.

On Mar 13, 2018 4:00 PM, "Louis Proyect via Marxism" <
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On 3/13/18 2:30 PM, Dan Michniewicz via Marxism wrote:

> Many of us had been spending considerable amounts of time over the past
> months organizing teach-ins and doing other work centered around Spencer's
> visit to MSU and also a planned visit to the University of Michigan. Now
> that he's no longer making public appearances, these lefties are now freed
> up and can hopefully focus on less "defensive" measures.  Myself and other
> locals are emboldened. Are we wrong to feel this way?
>

Yes, you are wrong. Street-fighting is a form of substitutionism. A mass
rally would have been much better since it would have drawn more people
into the protest especially those who are reluctant to use violence.
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[Marxism] Punching Nazis Revisited

[Dan Michniewicz via Marxism]

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The issue of using physical force to intimidate fascists and deter them
from organizing has come up on this list in the past. One week ago Richard
Spencer spoke at Michigan State University. A few hundred antifascist
counter protesters including myself gathered outside the venue in an
attempt to block Spencer and attendees from entering the building. About
150 tickets were sold, and only a couple dozen Spencer fans made it into
the venue. Many turned away after seeing our numbers. Some, including a
contingent of about 30 featuring Matt Heimbach and his Neo-Nazi Traditional
Workers Party, were turned away only after physical confrontation. Many of
those who did make it into the venue had to be escorted one at a time by
six or so cops through our crowds. This was undoubtedly an unpleasant
experience for them. Some were bloodied and some had horse shit thrown on
them.

Since then, Spencer announced via a youtube video that he would no longer
be making planned public speaking appearances

.

It's important to note that a diversity of tactics besides physical
intimidation were employed both on the day of his appearance and the days
leading up to it. Notably, the locations and businesses where the fascists
hoped to meet and socialize were made public, and businesses cancelled
their reservations.


My point here though is that physical confrontation--and yes, punching
nazis in the face--played a central role in deplatforming and driving the
figurehead of the Alt-right out of public spaces. Spencer and the TWP have
represented the core of this explicitly fascist movement, and I expect that
the young white men who it has been attracting will be looking elsewhere
going forward to seek refuge from their economic and cultural atomization.
There's more violent options including Atomwaffen and alternatively the
"alt-light" featuring voices like Ben Shapiro and Jordan Peterson.

Many of us had been spending considerable amounts of time over the past
months organizing teach-ins and doing other work centered around Spencer's
visit to MSU and also a planned visit to the University of Michigan. Now
that he's no longer making public appearances, these lefties are now freed
up and can hopefully focus on less "defensive" measures.  Myself and other
locals are emboldened. Are we wrong to feel this way?
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Re: [Marxism] A Marxist Critique of DSA

[Dan Michniewicz via Marxism]

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Bumping this in the hope that David realizes he didnt include a link.

On Feb 7, 2018 10:38 PM, "Dennis Brasky via Marxism" <
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??

Am I missing something or is this the extent of David's critique?

On Wed, Feb 7, 2018 at 10:31 PM, David Berger via Marxism <
marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu> wrote:

>
> Louis,
> >
> > Here's the resubmission
> >
> > Thanx,
> >
> > David Berger
>
>
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Re: [Marxism] Fwd: No, Antifa, This is Not the 1930s and We Don’t Need to Punch a Nazi

[Dan Michniewicz via Marxism]

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If you all don't want people to punch nazis, you are going to have to take
that message to the street I gather. This is a generalization of course,
but in the latest video of a guy knocking out a nazi in seattle, it doesn't
look like the guy doing the punching is going to be seeing this
counterpunch article. What I'm saying is that more groups than just the
ultra-left self-identified antifa think that this is OK.

On Mon, Sep 18, 2017 at 10:14 AM, Louis Proyect via Marxism <
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> https://www.counterpunch.org/2017/09/18/no-antifa-this-is-no
> t-the-1930s-and-we-dont-need-to-punch-a-nazi/
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