Re: [Marxism] The controversial ending of the US war against Vietnam
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * IMHO, the United States lost the wars in Indochina, but won a strategic victory in the war against world revolution (misnamed the cold war). The terrible destruction in Vietnam drew a new cordon around the countries that had become independent of imperialism through revolution. At the same time, the Nixon-Mao deal meant that China would not aid Vietnam or any other revolutionary movement in return for access to US markets and capital. An alliance that has lasted until now, although it may not last much longer. Michael Meeropol also raised another interesting question. 1. "Did the US in the end "WIN" the wars in Indochina by destroying the indigenous independent revolutionary forces within "South" Vietnam thereby leading to the conquest of South Vietnam by North Vietnam -- the unification of Vietnam under the Northern regime rather than a true compromise --- leading, ultimately, to the slide towards capitalism in Vietnam ---?" An important part of the independent revolutionary forces in the south in 1945 were the Trotskyists who were massacred by the Viet Minh not the United States. https://www.marxists.org/history/etol/document/vietnam/pirani/index.htm After that date, the rise of independent opposition forces in the south faced not only the repression of the puppet South Vietnamese State and the US, but the efforts of the NLF and Lao Dong (Communist Party) to infliltrate and coopt them. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/15/opinion/south-vietnam-had-an-antiwar-movement-too.html Anthony _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] The controversial ending of the US war against Vietnam
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * That's the Chomsky view - that it was a symbolic but Pyrrhic victory for the DRV/NLF. On Mon, Sep 10, 2018 at 4:09 PM Michael Meeropol wrote: > MUCH MORE INTERESTING QUESTION _- Did the US in the end "WIN" the wars in > Indochina by destroying the indigenous independent revolutionary forces > within "South" Vietnam thereby leading to the conquest of South Vietnam by > North Vietnam -- the unification of Vietnam under the Northern regime > rather than a true compromise --- leading, ultimately, to the slide towards > capitalism in Vietnam --- > > Whether it was because of the politics of the DRV or the destruction of > the ability of the entire country -- north and south -- to support itself > due to agent orange, unexploded ordinance, a massive death toll, etc. --- > the result was no "socialist paradise" but an economically depressed > country that in the end opted for capitalism. > > The US prevented the spread of a nationalistic version of communism which > of course was the main reason for opposing the Viet Minh when they were > fighting the French --- a great cost in human life. Vietnam, Laos and > Cambodia got to control their own country but the people of none of those > countries ended up with socialism ... > > So the question remains -- did international capitalism ultimately WIN the > war against the INdochinese people?? > _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] The controversial ending of the US war against Vietnam
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * MUCH MORE INTERESTING QUESTION _- Did the US in the end "WIN" the wars in Indochina by destroying the indigenous independent revolutionary forces within "South" Vietnam thereby leading to the conquest of South Vietnam by North Vietnam -- the unification of Vietnam under the Northern regime rather than a true compromise --- leading, ultimately, to the slide towards capitalism in Vietnam --- Whether it was because of the politics of the DRV or the destruction of the ability of the entire country -- north and south -- to support itself due to agent orange, unexploded ordinance, a massive death toll, etc. --- the result was no "socialist paradise" but an economically depressed country that in the end opted for capitalism. The US prevented the spread of a nationalistic version of communism which of course was the main reason for opposing the Viet Minh when they were fighting the French --- a great cost in human life. Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia got to control their own country but the people of none of those countries ended up with socialism ... So the question remains -- did international capitalism ultimately WIN the war against the INdochinese people?? _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
