date:20100924

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On Fri, Sep 24, 2010 at 8:47 AM, Les Schaffer schaf...@optonline.net wrote:

 Alan Bradley wrote:
 Pope's astronomer says he would baptise an alien if it asked him

 i happen to know Guy, and this piece does not do him justice. he can
 defend his views on soul and god himself. but appreciate that  the
 bourgeois media says what it says about a person for its own interests.

 Les

To wit: Consolmagno said: Steven Hawking is a brilliant physicist and
when it comes to theology I can say he's a brilliant physicist.

That pretty much sums it up IMO.

Greg


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Re: [Marxism] Thanks

2010-09-24 Thread S. Artesian

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I didn't stalk off in a huff everytime somebody posted something I didn't 
like.

Nestor, Manuel, Lueko, Joaquin posted hundreds of things I didn't like, 
never would cause me to leave.

 I left when people posted things in defense of a rapist.

I don't dislike Lou.  I didn't like how he treated Dan and Angelus.  I 
stayed away when certain individuals again posted things in defense of a 
person who committed rape.

And if that sequence is repeated, I'll leave again.  Just the way I feel 
about it.

Mere technicalities, I'm sure.


- Original Message - 
From: Les Schaffer schaf...@optonline.net 



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Re: [Marxism] Yes, it´s pedantic, but can´t he lp it

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On Fri, Sep 24, 2010 at 11:14 AM, Nestor Gorojovsky nmg...@gmail.com wrote:


 Dear Daniel, have they left Latin out of High School educational
 schemata in France?

 Strata, not stratas.

 Plural, neuter, second declination.

 Singular, stratum, plural strata.

 Stratas sounds so Greek that arch-s.o.b. Graecizant lawyer of
 Senatorial oligarchs Cicero would not have put it better!!!

 On these issues, it is advisable to keep with Caesar or Sallustius.

The Old Testament contains many STRATA indeed. My latest favorite
bible verse comes from Ezekiel 23:20--

There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of
donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses.

The prophet, of course, was not speaking in literal terms, but was
rather noting the chosen tribe's proclivity of bowing to the deities
of its pagan neighbors, in effect prostituting themselves to other
gods.   A bit later our favorite desert sky god remarks, like a
jealous wife-- If they really want to sleep with worn-out old
prostitutes like these then let them.

Which is all much about nothing, but hey, sometimes this stuff is
remarkably funny.

Greg


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[Marxism] Red Planet - Marxism and Science Fiction (was China Miéville )

2010-09-24 Thread Jon Louis Mann

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Science Fiction authors have been incorporating Marxism into their writing 
since early Steam Punk in the late 19th century, long before the current crop 
of great authors coming out of Britain.

http://www.sfsite.com/05b/rp320.htm

I won't mention all the capitalist SF authors.
Jon Mann


  


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Re: [Marxism] Illustrate me, please

2010-09-24 Thread Nestor Gorojovsky

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El 24/09/2010 01:25 p.m., Andrew Pollack escribió:
 Where does the subject line (Illustrate Me) come from?

It comes from my limitations with English.



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[Marxism] Illustrate Me

2010-09-24 Thread Carol Brown

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I don't understand why this is on a Marxism listserv.  I thought the topics 
being discussed would be more Marxist oriented or help me
understand Marxism better. I figure the people corresponding know the subject 
better than I do and have been at it for a long time so I might learn
something from it. Half the stuff on this topic and some of the others I just 
delete. I keep thinking that it might get more interesting
or more educational.



Carol

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[Marxism] Antonina Pirozhkova, Engineer and Widow of Isaac Babel,

2010-09-24 Thread Fred Feldman

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www.nytimes.com/2010/09/23/world/europe/23pirozhkova.html?_r=1ref=obituaris

Fred Feldman comments:
Although I vaguely knew there had been a revolution in Russia once, my first
direct contact with the event was not the writings of Lenin or Trotsky or
Deutscher, but spending an afternoon reading Red Cavalry in my local public
library.

Already attracted to the worldwide hard-boiled school from Dostoevsky to
Film Noir to Van Gogh's Potato Eaters to Dashiell Hammett and Louis
Ferdinand Celine, I found that Red Cavalry added a note of inspiration.
Ignorant and crude and even cruel human beings fighting to raise themselves
out of miserable conditions of oppression and exploitation by any means
necessary.

When I hear people complain about the Cuban revolution, and the repression
and so forth, I always tend to remember what the peoples of the USSR went
through to make the gains they did. Compared to that, Cuba has been a walk
in the park.

Anyway I salute Babel's very productive and determined widow, regardless of
what her political views were at the end, for a long life of activities that
advanced world literature and human liberation. Worthy causes, to put it
mildly.

Antonina Pirozhkova, presente!
Fred Feldman 




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[Marxism] FBI Raids homes

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http://twincities.indymedia.org/2010/sep/breaking-news-three-houses-minneapolis-raided-other-houses-michigan-nc-chicago-targeted

*Breaking News* Three houses in Minneapolis raided, other houses in
Michigan, NC, Chicago targeted.
Submitted by smiley on Fri, 09/24/2010 - 09:20

Urgent - Community Meeting tonight! 5:30 pm Walker Church 3104 16th
Ave S regarding the FBI Raids

On Friday morning, three houses in the Minneapolis area are believed
to have been raided by SWAT Teams. While we have few details right
now, the F.B.I. appears to be targeting people associated with the
Freedom Road Socialist Organization. Besides the raids in Minneapolis,
houses in Michigan, North Carolina and Chicago were also targeted.

Raids occurred at 1823 Riverside, above the Hard Times Cafe, and the
2900 block of Park Ave. One other raid is reported, as well. Outside
Hard Times Cafe, three unmarked black SUVs (one with an Illinois
license plate) sat in the parking area as of 10am, when a lawyer
observed 8 FBI agents sitting in the residence examining materials.
Otherwise the scene was calm.

Agents had broken in the door there at 7am Friday morning, breaking an
aquarium in the process.

The Federal search warrants appear to be focusing on seizing
electronic devices, international travel, and alleging
co-conspirators. They do not authorize arrests.

The search warrant for 1823 Riverside, the residence of activist Mick
Kelly, sought information regarding ability to pay for his own
travel to Palestine and Columbia from 2000 to today. The warrant
hyped potential documents indicating any contacts/facilitation with
FARC, PFLP, and Hezbollah - what it called FTOs or foreign
terrorist organizations. It mentioned seeking information on the
alleged facilitation of other individuals in the US to travel to
Colombia, Palestine and any other foreign location in support of
foreign terrorist organizations including but not limited to FARC,
PFLP and Hezbollah.

The wording of the warrant appears to indicate the government seeks to
create divisions among social justice and international soldarity
activists by hyping alleged connections to what they call foreign
terrorist organizations.

The warrant also sought information on Kelly's travel to and from and
presence in MN, and other foreign countries [sic] to which Kelly has
traveled as part of his work in FRSO [Freedom Road Socialist
Organization, as well as materials related to his finances and the
finances of FRSO, and all computer and electronic devices.

The federal warrant was signed by Judge Susan Nelson at 3:30pm
yesterday, September 23.

FROM: Twin Cities Peace Campaign - Focus on Iraq MESSAGE: Dear
Peacemakers, I have just been informed by Sarah Martin that the FBI
are in the process of raiding the homes of Meredith Aby, Jess Sundin,
and Mick Kelly. They are apparently accusing them of connections with
a terrorist organization. The National Lawyer Guild attorneys are
suggesting that we go to their homes immediately. Jess lives at 2911
Park Avenue South in Minneapolis. Meredith lives on 14th Avenue just
off Lake Street. I believe it is on 14th; it is the street off 31st
and Powderhorn Park that does not run through to Lake Street. Mick
lives above the Hard Times Cafe on Riverside near Cedar. This is
extremely shocking. We must stand together. I am going to one of their
homes right now. My phone number is 612-275-2720. Peace in the
struggle, Marie Braun

http://www.startribune.com/politics/national/103716384.html?elr=KArks%3ADCiUo3PD%3A3D_V_qD3L%3Ac7cQKUiD3aPc%3A_Yyc%3AaU7DYaGEP7vDEh7P%3ADiUs

FBI raids homes of several Twin Cities war protesters

By RANDY FURST, Star Tribune

Last update: September 24, 2010 - 11:08 AM

The homes of several leaders of the Twin Cities antiwar movement were
raided Friday by the FBI in what an agency spokesman described as an
“investigation into activities concerning the material support of
terrorism.”

Search warrants were executed on six addresses in Minneapolis and at
two in Chicago, said FBI spokesman Steve Warfield.

Among the homes raided were the apartments of Jessica Sundin, who was
a principal leader of the mass march of 10,000 on the opening day of
the Republican National Convention two years ago, and Mick Kelly, who
was prominent in that protest and among those who announced plans to
march on the Democratic National Convention in Minneapolis, if the
city is selected to host it in 2012.

Ted Dooley, an attorney, said he had reviewed the search warrant
issued in the raid on Kelly’s apartment. “It’s a probe into the
political beliefs of American citizens and to any organization
anywhere that opposes the American iimperial design,” he said.

Steve Warfield, an FBI agent, declined to respond to Dooley’s comment.
He said in a

[Marxism] Speaking of Economies and Coming Back

2010-09-24 Thread S. Artesian

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From the US Dept of Commerce:

http://www.census.gov/manufacturing/m3/


New Orders
New orders for manufactured durable goods in August decreased $2.5 billion or 
1.3 percent to $191.2 billion, the U.S. Census Bureau announced today. Down 
three of the last four months, this decrease followed a 0.7 percent July 
increase. Excluding transportation, new orders increased 2.0 percent. Excluding 
defense, new orders decreased 1.2 percent

Shipments
Shipments of manufactured durable goods in August, down following two 
consecutive monthly increases, decreased $3.1 billion or 1.5 percent to $197.9 
billion.This followed a 2.5 percent July increase. Transportation equipment, 
also down following two consecutive monthly increases, had the largest 
decrease, $3.1 billion or 5.9 percent to $49.5 billion.

Unfilled Orders
Unfilled orders for manufactured durable goods in August, down two consecutive 
months, decreased $0.8 billion or 0.1 percent to $802.4 billion. This followed 
a 0.1 percent July decrease.


And from the EU's Eurostat Agency


In July 2010 compared with June 2010, the euro area1 (EA16) industrial new 
orders index2 fell by 2.4%. In June3 the index increased by 2.4%. In the EU271, 
new orders declined by 2.3% in July 2010, after a rise of 2.5% in June3. 
Excluding ships, railway  aerospace equipment4, for which changes tend to be 
more volatile, industrial new orders fell by 0.6% in the euro area and by 0.5% 
in the EU27. 
In July 2010 compared with July 2009, industrial new orders grew by 11.2% in 
the euro area and by 12.5% in the EU27. Total industry excluding ships, railway 
 aerospace equipment4 rose by 13.6% and 14.8% respectively. 
 

Not exactly upbeat numbers, are they?  There's still trillions of dollars of 
non-performing debt to be worked off;  overaccumulation to be destroyed, 
millions of lives to be impoverished.

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Re: [Marxism] FBI Raids Homes

2010-09-24 Thread Politicus E.

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Is it possible to immediately obtain an electronic copy of the search warrants?
epoliticus


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[Marxism] Inside Job

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I had few expectations from Charles Ferguson’s “Inside Job”, a 
documentary opening on October 8th, since it appeared to adhere to 
the same formula as his debut film “No End in Sight”. That movie, 
which won an Academy Award nomination, relied heavily on experts 
who portrayed the war in Iraq as some kind of tragic blunder 
rather than a product of long-standing American imperialist 
policies in the Middle East. “Inside Job” is to the financial 
crisis as “No End in Sight” is to the war in Iraq. You won’t find 
Doug Henwood, Michael Perelman, David Harvey or Leo Panitch being 
interviewed. Indeed, the question of capitalism as a system is 
never raised just as imperialism is not in “No End in Sight”.

All that being said, “Inside Job” is a brilliant dissection of the 
financial industry and the political system that it shares a bed 
with. Ferguson might rely solely on industry experts and 
regulators but to what astonishing results. This tautly organized 
film gathers momentum from the very first minutes and builds up a 
head of steam like a locomotive engine. Despite avoiding the 
question of how the economic system is organized, it is a dagger 
aimed at its heart no matter the intention of Charles Ferguson. 
All in all, it reminds me of these words in the Communist Manifesto:

Finally, in times when the class struggle nears the decisive 
hour, the progress of dissolution going on within the ruling 
class, in fact within the whole range of old society, assumes such 
a violent, glaring character, that a small section of the ruling 
class cuts itself adrift, and joins the revolutionary class, the 
class that holds the future in its hands. Just as, therefore, at 
an earlier period, a section of the nobility went over to the 
bourgeoisie, so now a portion of the bourgeoisie goes over to the 
proletariat, and in particular, a portion of the bourgeois 
ideologists, who have raised themselves to the level of 
comprehending theoretically the historical movement as a whole.

full: http://louisproyect.wordpress.com/2010/09/24/inside-job/


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[Marxism] God materialism and bible Marxian take on Hebrew

2010-09-24 Thread Peggy Dobbins

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I tried to reply to all the contributors to the very welcome string on god 
material  and bible but didn't do it
properly.  I'd like to join this discussion by asking participants willing to 
give a read to the English performance text after the Arabic, Spanish and 
Chinese short versions (you have to scroll a bit) at

http://peggydobbins.net/dwellingintents/5originsurpluslaborti.html


Sent from my iPhone

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[Marxism] Red Capitalism in Vietnam

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Counterpunch Weekend Edition
September 24 - 26, 2010
Linh Dinh's Love Like Hate
Red Capitalism in Vietnam

By CHARLES LARSON

A couple of years ago when I spend some time in Vietnam, I was 
struck by the country’s virulent form of capitalism. Consumer 
goods were stacked up everywhere; the people seemed prosperous; 
the streets were clean and pretty much free of trash; moreover, 
everyone seemed to be selling something. The expected anger toward 
Americans was non-existent; a partial explanation from our guide 
was that more than half of the population was born after the 
American pull-out from the country in 1975. The Vietnam war (which 
the Vietnamese refer to as the “American” war) is not in their 
memories.

Linh Dinh’s novel, Love Like Hate, confirms everything I have just 
said and takes these remarks several stages further. Several 
disparate sentences from the first two paragraphs put the entire 
transformation into context: “Saigon lost its identity in 1975, 
but by the early nineties had regained much of it back.” “A 
hodgepodge of incoherence, Saigon thrives on pastiche. Sly, crass 
and frankly infatuated with all things foreign, it caricatures 
everyone yet proclaims itself original.” “The worst thing about 
Communism is not that it stops you from thinking or writing 
poetry, the worst thing about it is that it can stop you from 
eating altogether.”

Yes, Saigon is different from the cities in the North, more 
Western, of course, and more in-your-face, and Dinh confesses to a 
Dark Age between the years of 1975 to 1986. Vast numbers of people 
went sent to re-education camps, food shortages were frequent but 
once petty capitalism was permitted in 1986, everything took off 
at roller-coaster speed. One of the people to benefit was Kim Lan, 
who opened a restaurant in Saigon that year which she named “Paris 
by Night,” and it wasn’t long before she was filthy rich. Her 
greatest joy is to indulge her daughter, Hao, with luxuries. By 
the time Hao is fifteen, she has her own Wave motorbike, and she 
looks “like an actress in a Hong Kong movie. She had learned how 
to put on lipstick, eye shadow, mascara, shimmer, blush, rouge, 
greasepaint, lip gloss, pomade and pancake.”

“When she opened her mouth, a dozen English phrases sputtered out, 
gleaned from Madonna and Britney Spears CDs. Every inch of her was 
brand named—CK, Revlon, Polo, Levi’s, Adidas—albeit much of it was 
fake. She was rarely seen without a baseball cap from her huge 
collection. She bought them compulsively because they were so cool 
and so American.” In short, Hao is such a “fake” American that her 
mother will accept nothing less than another fake American as her 
daughter’s husband.

There’s a Vietnamese term for Vietnamese Americans, those who fled 
the country at the end of the war, went to the United States, and 
became fabulously rich: Viet Kieus. Kim Lan is determined that Hao 
will marry a Viet Kieu. That goal becomes the central conflict in 
Dinh’s clever story—its elaborate plotting and structure, looping 
back to the last years of the war and then as far ahead as the 
time immediately following 9/11. Of that disaster—observed on 
TV--one of Dinh’s characters observes, “Even your disasters are 
like Hollywood.”

The fact is that the major tone of the novel is the author’s 
healthy irreverence—for virtually all his characters, their 
activities, their country and, of course, for the United States. 
He questions Vietnamese Buddhism: “The average Vietnamese…had no 
idea whom he was praying to.” In their rush towards materialism 
and their value of everything American, he states that Vietnamese 
“Thought of America as a vast shopping mall to be envied and 
emulated.” Of the English language, he notes, “By cajoling the 
rest of the world into learning English, Americans are begging for 
their own death,” since the result is that everyone in the rest of 
the world wants to immigrate to the United States.

Perhaps the rampant commercialism in the country is best 
demonstrated by a minor incident involving a Vietnamese 
businessman who is conflicted by what he has observed over the 
years as the country has been transformed: “He had never known 
there could be so much capitalist exploitation in a supposedly 
socialist society. It amazed him that many Vietnamese had to work 
for a dollar a day to make $140 sneakers to be lusted after, and 
sometimes even bought, by other Vietnamese. If a worker wanted to 
buy a pair of Nikes he had just sewn, he would have to wait for 
half a year and not eat at all during that time.” (223)

The title, Love Like Hate, refers to a Vietnamese punk rock group 
but as much as anything it defines almost all of the major 
relationships in this revealing novel and, of course, the

[Marxism] Not Marxist? [was Re: Illustrate Me]

2010-09-24 Thread Nestor Gorojovsky

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Dear Carol, I am breaking the five posts a mail rule, but I believe 
that the case deserves a reply.

Your e-mail address reads caroltheartist, so that I guess you ARE an 
artist. Artists, wherever and whenever they act, tend to believe in the 
famous lines by that wise slave, Plautus: Humanus sum, nihil humanus a 
me alienum puto.

Which means the following: I am human, I don´t believe anything human 
to be alien to myself. A blasphemy: slaves, even privileged slaves as 
Plautus, were not considered exactly human but rather speaking beasts 
in those times and places. And it is a SLAVE IN ANCIEN ROME WHO SPEAKS 
and defies this common sense of the times through one of his characters 
(BTW: just as Aesop -another slave- created a _world of speaking beasts_ 
to represent the world of his _human masters and owners_!)

Are such issues, so drenched with class struggle, alien to Marxism? Not 
to any Marxism I, for one, consider worth paying attention to. Marxism 
is NOT a closed realm of life. If it is not open to anything outside 
its canonic borders, it is not worth its own tasks: none less than 
bringing humankind above its present prehistoric state to a new 
universal condition.

This should be enough for such an issue as who drafted King James´s 
Bible to be debated on this list, although I admit it would have been 
somehow a fringe issue. At any rate, I did not expect it to be more than 
a question and a couple of answers (the first one, by Eric Toren, was 
more than enough for my needs, but maybe others could have benefited 
from the remaining comments).

Now, Carol, you have brought the thing to a higner level, and my 
innocent question may develop into a high debate on what is Marxism, 
and what issues should be considered by Marxists or not.

Ever since Lukács wrote his book on _History and class consciousness_, 
the philosophical dimension of Marxism gives a right to existence to any 
debates such as the one that MIGHT arise (at least among those comrades 
in Protestant countries) over the authorship of the standard Protestant 
version of the Bible. This would be to follow on his steps, but also on 
the steps of Antonio Gramsci´s most penetrating observations in his 
_Prison notebooks_.

There are in those notebooks lots of comments by Gramsci on rather 
abstruse issues of Catholic theology and other aspects of Catholic 
religious philosophy. This was not a free roaming mind taking solace in 
third rate issues. Gramsci was too busy to indulge in such trifle 
business. Somewhere in those notebooks, Gramsci points out that Italian 
popular culture is forged in the mills provided by the Pope in the 
thousands of churches along the country. This is not a minor comment, 
for someone trying to build a mass Marxist party from within a Fascist 
prison. I would bet that had Gramsci been writing in a Protestant 
country, he would have felt interested in the issue you, dear Carol, 
seem to consider (in a somewhat Orwellian manner) un-Marxist...

Isn´t, for example, that book written on the orders of King James one of 
the sources of the popular wisdom in the main imperialist country of 
this globe of ours, which is probably the country you are living in? And 
thus, isn´t it a component in the _really existing_ ideology of the 
working classes in those countries whose history is rooted in the 
Protestant revolutions of the 16th and 17th centuries? Shouldn´t then a 
Marxist try to know something about the innermost fabric of a part of 
the culture of those masses she or he want to relate to and bring up to 
a revolutionary consciousness of the world?

It should be noted, also, that the history of the book (and the book 
itself as a historical event) should contain interesting inroads into 
the class relationships in England during the early times of the 17th 
Century, that is in the age which led to the Regicide revolution of 
Cromwell, the Puritans and the Roundheads. Out of the many possible 
versions, it was _this one_ which seems to have brought together both 
Puritans and High Church worshippers in a country where a few decades 
later Milton would write Presbyter, that is priest writ large

Which, of course, is an acceptable subject on any list worth the name of 
Marxist, even in your own eyes, Carol, or so I guess. This might 
happen now, and all this thanks to your complaint, Carol. Which would 
then be justifying the very same thread you have considered unworthy!

Dialectics above all: any advance is the consequence of a contradiction.

Thank you, Carol, hadn´t you made that complaint I would have not 
realized all that I wrote on this rather long e-mail.

Best.



El 24/09/2010 01:33 p.m., Carol Brown escribió:
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[Marxism] Creativity and the Cold War

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(This helps me to understand why I prefer documentary films to 
fictional ones.)

Might the ideal of ‘creativity’, taken as a supremely valuable, 
supremely human faculty, be harmful to a writer’s formation? It 
seems ominous that the role of creativity in American education 
originates, as McGurl observes, in Cold War rhetoric: through 
creativity, America was going to prevail over its ‘relentlessly 
drab ideological competitor’ and ‘outdo the group-thinking 
Communist enemy’. The value placed on creativity and originality 
causes writers to hide their influences, to hide the fact that 
they have ever read any other books at all and, in many cases, to 
stop reading books altogether. One telling result of this value is 
a gap in quality between American literary fiction and non-fiction 
today. Many of the best journalistic and memoiristic essays in the 
world today are being written in America. I think of myself as 
someone who prefers novels and stories to non-fiction; yet, for 
human interest, skilful storytelling, humour, and insightful 
reflection on the historical moment, I find the average episode of 
This American Life  to be 99 per cent more reliable than the 
average new American work of literary fiction. The juxtaposition 
of personal narrative with the facts of the world and the facts of 
literature – the real work of the novel – is taking place today 
largely in memoirs and essays. This is one of many brilliant 
observations in David Shields’s recent manifesto Reality Hunger, 
in which he argues that we had best give up the novel altogether. 
But I don’t think the novel is dead – or, more accurately, I don’t 
see why it has to be dead. It’s simply being produced under the 
kinds of mistaken assumption that we don’t make when it comes to 
non-fiction. Non-fiction is about some real thing in the world, 
some story that someone had to go out and pursue. It’s about real 
people and real books, which are, after all, also objects in the 
world. Why can’t the novel expand to include these things, which 
were once – in Don Quixote, for example – a part of its purview?

full: http://www.lrb.co.uk/v32/n18/elif-batuman/get-a-real-degree


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Re: [Marxism] Yes, it´s pedantic, but can´t he lp it

2010-09-24 Thread Dan

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  Nestor wrote : Dear Daniel, have they left Latin out of High School 
educational schemata in France?

tibi gratiam ago.
Linguam latinam in Schola didisci, et non tantum Ciceronem sed etiam 
Lucretiam intellegere possem.
Sed sunt XV annos jam et omnia oblivi.
Nam mihi deest opportunitates latine loqui.

I'm sure I've made mistakes. O tempore ! O mores ! But, cum cupias, 
you can send me a mail in Ciceronian Latin and I will try to understand 
it without a dictionary.

I believe with a pinch of salt is cum grano salis in Latin.

Anyway, you're quite right about the plural of stratum being strata. 
Don't tell my students their all-knowing English teacher makes such 
basic mistakes...

By the way are you also a teacher ?






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Re: [Marxism] Red Capitalism in Vietnam

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On Fri, Sep 24, 2010 at 2:20 PM, Louis Proyect l...@panix.com wrote:

Counterpunch Weekend Edition
September 24 - 26, 2010
Linh Dinh's Love Like Hate
Red Capitalism in Vietnam

By CHARLES LARSON

http://english.vovnews.vn/Home/Vietnam-wants-to-strengthen-cooperation-with-Colombia-Denmark-and-Cuba/20109/119867.vov

Vietnam wants to strengthen cooperation with Colombia, Denmark, and Cuba

On the sidelines of the 65th UN Summit, Vietnam's President met with
Colombian President Juan Manuel Santos, Danish Prime Minister Lars
Lokke Rasmussen, and Cuba's Minister of Foreign Relations Bruno
Rodriguez.

Mr. Triet congratulated Mr. Santos on his election and expressed
Vietnam's eagerness to boost cooperation with Colombia in all fields.

President Santos said Colombia highly values its relationships with
Asian countries, and Vietnam in particular. He also praised the Hong
Kong Shanghai Banking Corporation for establishing the CIVETS group,
which includes developing countries of Colombia, Indonesia, Vietnam,
Egypt, Turkey, and South Africa, saying the group will create
opportunities for the countries to promote their images and attract
investment.

The two state leaders agreed to strengthen Vietnam-Colombia relations,
especially in economics and trade, and support each other at
international forums.

In a meeting with the Danish Prime Minister, President Triet said he
was delighted at the development of Vietnam-Denmark cooperation and
expressed his thanks for Denmark's Official Development Assistance to
Vietnam.

Mr. Triet also said he hopes Danish businesses will continue to
increase their investment in Vietnam.

Mr. Rasmussen said the relationship between Vietnam and Denmark is
getting better and better and highlighted Vietnam's contribution to
the region's development. He said exchange visits by the two
countries' leaders will help promote cooperation between Vietnamese
and Danish businesses.

The Danish leader said he has confidence that Danish companies
operating in Vietnam will be successful and able to expand their
business.

The two should cooperate in tourism, education and training, as well
as in business, he said.

President Triet told Cuba's Minister of Foreign Relations that the
Vietnamese people are always happy at Cuba's socio-economic
development. Vietnam consistently urges the US to remove its economic
embargo against Cuba, he said.

The state leader said he hopes to strengthen Vietnam's multifaceted
cooperation with Cuba, especially in agriculture, and conveyed his
best wishes to Cuba's iconic leader Fidel Castro and Cuban President
Raul Castro Ruz.

Mr. Rodriguez expressed his thanks to the Vietnamese people for their
assistance to Cuba and said Cuba sees Vietnam as an inspiring example
of economic growth.

He congratulated Vietnam on its fulfillment of ASEAN's chairmanship,
and passed on Fidel Castro's and President Ruz's best wishes to
Vietnamese State and Party leaders.

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Re: [Marxism] Not Marxist ?

2010-09-24 Thread Dan

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  Si, Nestor, tienes razon.
  I totally agree with you on the fact that cultural manifestations can 
be investigated through dialectical materialism just as the exchange of 
dollar bills on the visible surface of the economy can be investigated 
to discover the social relations of production within the economy.
And religious beliefs are linked to social systems. Which in turn are 
linked to the material basis of production.
AND AT THE SAME TIME (contradiction) cultural beliefs also contain their 
own dynamic structures which take them in directions which are 
determined by social relationships (who bosses whom around) but are not 
totally predictable.

Yes, let's not forget Gramsci.

As for the KJV, it also has it's own history, the debates it settles (by 
providing an official version for an English Church still barely over 
the Henry, Edward, MAry, Elisabeth succession) were ongoing since the 
reformation and the pre-reformation (let's say Renaissance, but actually 
late 15th century).
It provides a definite BOOK for English-speaking Protestantism to mull 
over and start constructing new cultural schemata. It marks a shift 
away from other Continental traditions (Catholic, Lutherian and even 
Calvinist) and provides many, many formulas and speech patterns 
which are still present in the English language.




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Re: [Marxism] Not Marxist? [was Re: Illustrate Me]

2010-09-24 Thread Carol Brown

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Thanks for all that.

Maybe if you're talking about the Bible, instead of saying ' illustrate ' it 
should be ' illuminate '. 
Illumination is a biblical reference. I found this on a website  
http://www.challies.com/articles/revelation-inspiration-illumination-0:


Illumination
 Illumination refers to God’s work in the lives of believers to make us able to 
believe and understand the words of the Bible. This does not mean the Spirit 
gives us new revelation - rather He applies to our lives the truths contained 
in His existing revelation. While illumination depends on prior revelation, it 
must be differentiated from it. You and I cannot expect God’s direct special 
revelation in our lives. Instead we have the privilege of looking to his full 
and final revelation in the Scripture and having assurance that the Spirit will 
illumine those words for us. Many Christians confuse these. When they suddenly 
come to understand a deep truth in Scripture, they may believe that God has 
spoken to them, seemingly indicating a type of revelation. What has happened, 
though, is that God has illumined their hearts to understand a truth from His 
word.
We see many examples of God’s illumination in the Bible. King David, in writing 
Psalm 119 asked the Lord “Give me understanding, that I may observe your Law.” 
In the twenty fourth chapter of Luke Jesus, when appearing to the disciples 
after His resurrection, “opened their understanding, that they might comprehend 
the Scriptures.” Following His ascension, He sent the Holy Spirit to be our 
guide and to illumine the Scriptures for us. Paul referred to this many times, 
often praying that his readers would experience it. Perhaps the clearest 
example is in Ephesians 1:17-18 where we read “…that the God of our Lord Jesus 
Christ, the Father of glory, may give to you the spirit of wisdom and 
revelation in the knowledge of Him, the eyes of your understanding being 
enlightened; that you may know what is the hope of His calling, what are the 
riches of the glory of His inheritance in the saints…” Today we continue to 
experience the privilege of having the Holy Spirit work through us to bring 
light to the Scriptures.
Illumination is what separates believers from unbelievers when we read the 
Bible. An unbeliever may read the word and view it merely as a religious or 
historical document, much like I would read the Koran or the Book of Mormon. 
But when a Christian reads the Bible, the Spirit guides him to see not merely 
history and religion, but the very words of God. And even more important, He 
allows the person to apply the great truths of the Bible to his life. He 
initiates change through the words of the Scripture. Being a Christian, then, 
is a necessary prerequisite for the Spirit’s illumination.
I would like to address a couple of misconceptions regarding illumination. It 
would be easy to think that with the Spirit’s help we can understand everything 
the Bible contains, but this is not necessarily so. We know there are some 
concepts that are too great for us and that God has chosen to remain hidden to 
us. For example, with the Spirit’s illumination we can see the Trinity in the 
Bible, but we can never truly understand the inner workings of the godhead and 
truly comprehend how three can be one. Similarly we may not ever know why God 
allows certain events to happen while keeping other ones from ever taking place.
We might also wistfully think that the illumination of the Spirit precludes us 
from doing thorough, carefully study of the Bible, but again, this is not so. 
While we trust the Holy Spirit to guide us as we study His word, we must still 
labor to fulfill the Bible’s commands to “cut it straight” - to accurately 
handle the word. In this way we can have assurance that the Spirit has, indeed, 
helped us to see truth and not error. As with most other things in life, God 
still commands us to work hard and to dedicate ourselves to the task. Just as 
we would not sit back and expect God to provide for us financially when we 
refuse to do useful labor, in the same way we should not expect Him to 
illuminate the Word for us when we are not diligent in seeking the truth.




Carol

 
 
 

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Re: [Marxism] Entre nos

2010-09-24 Thread Dan

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  Pas de problème Nestor.
Moi non plus je ne sais pas où sont les accents pour l'espagnol sur mon 
clavier.
N'hésite pas à m'écrire sur mon adresse e-mail personelle. C'est fait 
pour ça. C'est de la confrontation des points de vues respectifs que
naît un débat qui promet d'être intéressant.
Au fait, je suis désolé d'être aussi curieux, mais où donc as-tu appris 
a t'exprimer en un français aussi correct ?
Et puis, seconde intrusion dans ta vie privée, si tu n'est pas prof, 
alors dans quel secteur d'activité es-tu ?
Tu sembles avoir une connaissance approfondie des langues classiques (tu 
cites Plaute et Cicéron par exemple). Serais-tu avocat par hasard ? Ou 
docteur, comme ton célèbre compatriote de la Sierra Maestra ?
Bon, comme je l'ai dit précédemment, n'hésite pas à m'envoyer un mail 
avec tes vues sur Gramsci et Lukacs, et sur la critique marxiste 
appliquée aux structures de la pensée. J'avoue que je ne connais pas 
bien la philosophie de Lukacs.

A bientôt j'espère.




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Re: [Marxism] General Strikes in France

2010-09-24 Thread Mark Lause

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Dan,

I'm just back from over there.  While we were looking around and seeing all
the evidence of possible political troubles over this question, I kept
wondering about the impact on all this for those young workers looking for
jobs?  it seems to me that they'd be more interested in raising the
retirement age than those workers facing the addition of more years to the
end of their working lives...  What are the unions and the Left doing to
mobilize them...and make this a broader social issue...

I should add that retirement at any age looks beyond the realm of
possibility to this prof...and to many working people in America.

ML

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Re: [Marxism] Not Marxist? [was Re: Illustrate Me]

2010-09-24 Thread Midhurst14

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If you dont fall for the hocus pocus of religion, its a good read
George Anthony

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[Marxism] Cal Executions Set to Resume

2010-09-24 Thread Tom Cod

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http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2010/09/24/BAJO1FJB1P.DTLtsp=1

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[Marxism] Capitalism's insoluble crisis

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http://www.marxist.com/capitalism-insoluble-crisis.htm
Capitalism’s insoluble crisis
Written by Rob Sewell Friday, 24 September 2010

Recently the world’s central bankers gathered in Jackson Hole, Wyoming 
for their annual meeting. Having experienced the biggest banking crisis 
in history, there was a sense of relief at having avoided a complete 
collapse. The talk now was of the dust settling. Ben Bernanke, chairman 
of the US Federal Reserve, despite saying a month earlier that the 
outlook was “unusually uncertain”, said he was now “confident”. But such 
confidence is very much misplaced. With the world economy facing at best 
a painful recovery, and slow anaemic growth, the world’s bankers are 
deeply troubled as to what steps to take next.

Since then, as the economy slowed further and unemployment remained 
around 10%, the Federal Reserve was considering a new bout of 
Quantitative Easing, i.e., shovelling more money into the economy. For 
Bernanke, the only issue was whether “the benefits of each tool, in 
terms of additional stimulus, outweigh the associated costs or risks of 
using the tool.” For us ordinary mortals, this looked more like a script 
from a Marx Brothers’ film. More seriously, it reveals the dangerous 
risks of expanding its over-stretched balance-sheet even further.

The thought of more pump-priming the economy has provoked deep divisions 
amongst the strategists of Big Business, especially between those who 
want to “loosen monetary policy” and those who want to drastically cut 
the huge budget deficits. The Europeans have taken a more orthodox 
approach, urging deeper and swifter cuts to reduced public and private 
debt. Postponing these cuts, says the European Central Bank would be 
“very dangerous” and risked a Japanese-style “lost decade”. This was 
clearly aimed at the Americans, who they feel are being too prolific. 
But the Americans have their own interests and are terrified of the 
recovery running into the sand.

But both are right, and both are wrong. They are caught between the 
devil and the deep blue sea. Whatever they do will be wrong. It will 
prove a very long time before they get out of this crisis, years, if not 
decades, as was the case in the inter-war period. Clearly this is no 
temporary economic stumble. Even President Obama recognised that 
“there’s no quick fix to the worst recession since the Great 
Depression.” (Financial Times, 4/9/10) Mervyn King, head of the Bank of 
England also chimed in. “Whereas crises occur suddenly, they fade only 
gradually,” he fretted, as the recovery splutters along. (Financial 
Times, 28/8/10)

Recent analysis by two bourgeois economists, Carmen and Vincent 
Reinhart, poured cold water on the proceedings at Wyoming. After 
studying economic crises over three-quarters of a century, including the 
Great Depression, they concluded the future looks bleak. According to 
them, “the future is likely to bring only hard choices.”

Their research showed that real per capita gross domestic product tends 
to be much lower and unemployment much higher during the decade 
following such crises. In the 10 of the 15 examples they studied, 
unemployment never fell back to its pre-crisis level, not in the 
following decade, nor right up to the end of 2009.

“It gets worse. Where house price data are available, 90% of the 
observations over the decade after a crisis are below their level the 
year before the crisis,” states their analysis. “Median prices are 15 to 
20% lower too, with cumulative declines as large as 55%. Credit is also 
a problem.”

The prospects for world capitalism are dire. In the United States, 
unemployment is affecting some 30 million workers, after including those 
looking for full-time work and those who have dropped off the register. 
Americans who have been unemployed for 27 weeks or longer now make up 
44.9% of the jobless, up from 17.3% when the downturn began. The 
construction industry is experiencing a double-dip recession as house 
sales continue to fall and a quarter of US home-owners find themselves 
in negative equity. The US growth rate has been revised down from 2.4% 
to 1.6%. Imports rose by 32.4% in the second quarter, the biggest jump 
for 26 years, which is sure to raise protectionist hackles.

All the major capitalist powers are attempting to escape the crisis by 
boosting exports. But they cannot all succeed in doing this, and this 
has already resulted in rising international tensions. The recent 
actions by the Japanese to devalue their currency has provoked fury in 
Europe and the US. China is also deliberately holding down the value of 
its currency. “There were growing fears of a global trade war last night 
after the world’s largest countries clashed over currency policies aimed

Re: [Marxism] Me, racist scum ?

2010-09-24 Thread Lajany Otum

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You visit six times Haiti from the imperialist metropole which deposes 
Bertrand Aristide and imposes a puppet regime on the country today, 
and gave succour to the Duvaliers in the past,  and the lesson with which 
you come back to regale us is how reactionary and repressive is ... the 
neighbouring island of Cuba. And, moreover, to support your case, you 
use evidence trawled from the websites run by the Cuban gusanos -- that 
is the Cuban scum who are the political and moral equivalents of puppets
supported by France in Haiti today and in the past, and against whom the 
Cubans apparently do not have any legitimate right to defend themselves. 

A political friend and ally of the peoples of the third world indeed.  The 
fact that the peoples of the third world also includes  Batistas, Duvaliers, 
Houphouet Boingys and Mobutus, would perhaps be better left unsaid.

BTW, surely there is there some sort of medal or prize for which one can 
be nominated in recognition for having spent six years in Guyana and 
Suriname, and for having Haitian friends? 

Lajany Otum



BK writes: 

  Me, racist scum ? When my wife is Indian and my two children are
 whatever they are ? Me who spent six years in Guyana and Surinam, a
 racist scum ? Me who helped hide African children who were meant to be
 deported by French authorities ? Me who went to Marocco to help support
 striking comrades ?
 Me who have been to Haiti 6 times, who speaks Kréol (sa ka parlé !), who
 has many Haitian friends. You dare infer that my criticism of Cuba
 entails that I am a racist.
 
 Well in your world it probably does. 
 If being ANTI-CASTRO = being WHITE RACIST, then your opinion of me is
 already formed. I criticize Castro ERGO I am a disgusting Western
 Imperialist privileged racist. I will write my self-criticism and
 address it to you, and await the decision of Comrade Barrero concerning
 my future.  I suppose comrade Barrero will send me to re-education camp.
 But execution seems more appropriate.  
 
 Do you know this delightful Haitian proverb ? Tout kochon ké mouri
 dimanch ?, Every pig will have his Sunday (Sunday being the day of
 slaying hogs in the Caribbeans, the proverb means : every arrogant and
 conceited individual will have his comeuppance)
 











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[Marxism] From a comrade from my ill-spent Trotskyist youth

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Did you catch the NPR report on the Chinese Worker Protests this morning?

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=130078240

It has this gem from a Chinese activist:

Karl Marx was right. We should struggle like he said in 19th century 
Europe. Chinese factories now are just like factories in 19th century 
Europe. And just like Karl Marx said, only through struggle with the 
capitalists can we gain our rights, Liu says.

I think we're headed into interesting times.

Mark


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[Marxism] Stand with Anti-War Activists Targeted by the FBI!

2010-09-24 Thread Eli Stephens

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ANSWER condemns FBI intimidation tactics   

The ANSWER Coalition unequivocally condemns today's FBI raids on the homes of 
anti-war and solidarity activists in Illinois and Minnesota, and the 
intimidation of activists there and elsewhere.

This morning, Sept. 24, teams of FBI agents from the Joint Terrorism Task 
Force served search warrants and grand jury subpoenas on the activists, 
allegedly relating to political speech in defense of the Palestinian and 
Colombian peoples. The FBI subpoenaed around a dozen activists to testify 
before a grand jury in Chicago in October. They confronted and intimidated 
activists in additional states as part of the operation.

Continue: 
http://www.answercoalition.org/national/news/stand-with-anti-war-activists.html

Eli Stephens
 Left I on the News
 http://lefti.blogspot.com

  

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[Marxism] Search warrant used in today's FBI raids on anti-war activists

2010-09-24 Thread Dan DiMaggio

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The best source of news to follow the FBI raids on anti-war activists' homes
today is Twin Cities Indymedia - http://tc.indymedia.org/

Here is a link to the search warrant for the raid on one activist's home,
which focuses on the activities of the Freedom Road Socialist Organization
(the ones who publish Fightback newspaper). These people have played a
crucial role in the anti-war movement in the Twin Cities. They are being
subpoenaed to appear before a grand jury in Chicago relating to aid to the
PFLP (Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine) and FARC.

Search warrant (everyone should look at this):
http://tc.indymedia.org/files/kelly-warrant-92210.pdf

The warrant includes evidence pertaining to the finances of FRSO, as well
material relating to the recruitment, indoctrination, and facilitation of
others ... to join FRSO, including materials relating to the identity and
location of recruiters, facilitators, and recruits, the means by which the
recruits were recruited to join FRSO, and the means by which recruitment was
financed and arranged. It's horrifying that they can obtain a search
warrant for all these materials - it seems a clear violation of free speech.

The main charge in the warrant is violation of the law that prohibits
providing, attempting, and conspiring to provide material support to
designated foreign terrorist organizations.

All of this should be a warning to socialists and anti-war activists around
the country, that action is needed here to defend and reclaim our civil
liberties. There were over 200 people at a community meeting tonight in
support of those whose houses were raided. There will be a rally at 4:30pm
on Monday in front of the FBI office in downtown Minneapolis, 111 Washington
Ave, and a solidarity committee meeting next Thursday night.

Also, it seems like some coincidence that these raids come the same day as
Obama is meeting with the president of Colombia and congratulating him and
his security forces for their vicious war against the FARC, which has
featured the murder of peasants and then dressing them up as guerrillas to
inflate the death toll, well-documented collaboration with right-wing
paramilitaries, and more.

Dan

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[Marxism] From a comrade from my ill-spent Trotskyist youth

2010-09-24 Thread DW

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Yes, I heard it. It was quite inspiring. The worker described conditions in
southern China quoting Engels description of the condition of the working
class in the 19th Century. He noted that the factory owners and the local
Communist Party bosses work together to rip off the workers in the big
factories.

David

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Re: [Marxism] General Strikes in France

2010-09-24 Thread Shane Mage

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On Sep 24, 2010, at 6:05 PM, Mark Lause wrote:

 Dan,

 I'm just back from over there.  While we were looking around and  
 seeing all
 the evidence of possible political troubles over this question, I kept
 wondering about the impact on all this for those young workers  
 looking for
 jobs?  it seems to me that they'd be more interested in raising the
 retirement age than those workers facing the addition of more years  
 to the
 end of their working lives...

Don't you mean *not* raising the retirement age?
This is a point that seems lacking in the Left and union statements  
that I've seen on France 2.
What can be more stupid, at a time of enormous youth unemployment,  
then to force workers eager to retire to work two more years and so  
condemn their young eventual replacements to an additional two years  
of unemployment? That's neoliberalism for you.

Shane Mage

L'après-vie, c'est une auberge espagnole. L'on n'y trouve que ce  
qu'on a apporté.

Bardo Thodol





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Re: [Marxism] General Strikes in France

2010-09-24 Thread Mark Lause

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Yes, Shane.  Younger workers would be reasonably more interested in not
raising the retirement age...or raising it.  It's the issue either way that
effects them.

For aging workers, it's a question of whether we'd have to work another
stretch of time before reaching retirement.  For younger workers, it's a
question of getting their foot through the door and taking a step towards
actually earning a living now and eventually getting their themselves.  And
it does seem a natural mechanism for making the mass labor responses more of
a broader social movement.  We're agreed entirely on that.

And, as for Dan's complaints about the shortcomings of a general strike, I
think we see his point and wish it were a set of problems we could have in
the States.

ML

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[Marxism] The attack on the FRSO

2010-09-24 Thread Lou Paulsen

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I hope people are paying the proper amount of attention to this.

You have to think back a long time - maybe to the Smith Act or the SWP
trials in WWII? - to come up with an attack by the US government on a
mainstream socialist tendency like this outside the oppressed community.  Of
course there has never been any restraint on the feds when they went after
groups like the Panthers, the Young Lords, the MLN, etc., or even charitable
Arab and Islamic organizations.  But that isn't who the FRSO is.  And they
aren't the Weather Underground or the black bloc.  Not that anyone deserves
to be attacked by the feds.  But the feds are expanding the range of groups
that they think they can destroy with impunity.  The time was - for quite a
while - that you could be an organization of Marxists, internationalists,
who could do educational events, hand out leaflets, do union organizing,
hold peaceful demonstrations, publish a newspaper, give talks and public
meetings, and so on, sometimes about liberation struggles, and the feds
would not just flat-out try to destroy you for that.  If the rules are
changing now, which of you is safe? 

The FRSO aren't the teensiest bit ultraleftist.  I know there are people on
the list who don't trust my or my party's judgment, but just about everybody
on the left in the Midwest respects the FRSO and their activists.  They are
principled, they have a solid working-class orientation, they are
hard-working, and they are internationalistic.  Individually and
collectively, they are pretty exemplary.

The federal government is trying to do to the FRSO what the Nixon
administration never went so far as to try to do to the SWP or the CP or us,
what the G. W. Bush administration didn't try to do to us even when we
organized an anti-war demonstration on 9/29/01.  They didn't just hand out
subpoenas today.  They are trying to stop FRSO and its solidarity activities
in their tracks.  They are saying to the peoples of Palestine and Colombia
and really the whole oppressed world that You had better surrender now,
because we will cut down everyone who stands up for you, everyone who speaks
well of you, everyone who says that you are not the terrorists we say you
are.  And they are saying that everyone who conducts socialist activities
and tries to indoctrinate anyone in socialism or internationalism is the
proper target of the next attack.  Everyone on this list who did not have 30
boxes of papers and personal possessions hauled out of their house today,
who still has an unconfiscated computer and cell phone - the ball is in our
court.  We had better be ready to come up with material support and
political support in the old an injury to one is an injury to all spirit.

In Chicago:
CHICAGO -- Social justice and anti-war activists will gather at 3pm at the
West Town Law Community Office, 2502 W. Division St. to speak out against a
series of FBI raids that took place on Friday, September 24 in Chicago and
around the US.

The FRSO's website is www.fightbacknews.org .

Lou Paulsen
member, WWP, Chicago




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[Marxism] Marxism listserve

2010-09-24 Thread Jon Louis Mann

==
Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
==


 there are a lot of scholarly postings that 
 are more educational. i would certainly like 
 to know more of the history of the list serve 
 and how it evolved.
jon 

http://www.columbia.edu/~lnp3/Marxmail_history.htm

thanks louis; fascinating. i just skimmed briefly and will explore the links in 
more depth.
do have bios of the members; we do that on my sf list serve.  i was allowed to 
join this one with no questions.  i could be a c.i.a. spy!~)
jon


  


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Re: [Marxism-Thaxis] Teabaggers: A Demoncratic Plot?

On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 9:45 PM, CeJ jann...@gmail.com wrote:
CB: The vast majority of Black people never vote. Those who do vote
 understand exactly what Obama is going through. All of these Black
 people ,including me, are very observant earthly beings, know white
 people like the back of our hands. Oh you know them better than us ?
 uhhhuuuhu

 And back to my original point: the last presidential election, they
 did. As did some of that 10% of America who hate the imperium (black,
 white, whatever). And so black people understand Obama's need to give
 carte blanche to the warpigs and manage a health care plan that
 reflates the heathcare bubble while making 80 million Americans have
 no health care.

 The rest of your statement is just racialist metaphysics.


^^^
CB: unuh materialist critique of American racism.

It's astonishingly obvious to anybody who is a long time observer of
the situation that a big chunk of white people are doing a racist
twist on Obama.  Obama and the Dems would have lost some anyway.  It's
the economy stupid, and the healthcare fight during Clinton's admin
triggered a white race riot in the1994 interim election that brought
us Newt Gingrich. There was even a racist backlash against Clinton,
who is white, but as a liberal represented the Negro lover grouping
in the Reaganite/Gingrich yahoo they whipped up that time. This time
they have an actual Negro to whip up the racism.




 But my
 African genes cry out so to communicate with you better. Someday we
 might break you of such sloppy thinking habits CB.

 CB

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Re: [Marxism-Thaxis] Teabaggers: A Demoncratic Plot?

On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 9:45 PM, CeJ jann...@gmail.com wrote:
CB: The vast majority of Black people never vote. Those who do vote
 understand exactly what Obama is going through. All of these Black
 people ,including me, are very observant earthly beings, know white
 people like the back of our hands. Oh you know them better than us ?
 uhhhuuuhu

 And back to my original point: the last presidential election, they
 did. As did some of that 10% of America who hate the imperium (black,
 white, whatever). And so black people understand Obama's need to give
 carte blanche to the warpigs and manage a health care plan that
 reflates the heathcare bubble while making 80 million Americans have
 no health care.

 The rest of your statement is just racialist metaphysics. But my
 African genes cry out so to communicate with you better. Someday we
 might break you of such sloppy thinking habits CB.



CB: Race is a valid social category . Think on that neatly.



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Re: [Marxism-Thaxis] Bill Clinton goes out stumping for Obama

On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 9:55 PM, CeJ jann...@gmail.com wrote:
 Well the first black president goes stumping for the second black
 president.

^
CB: Oh yeah, you got a real neat theory of racism in the US.

^



 Bill does have better moves on the dance floor than the
 cool thin yellow one, though.

 Clinton simply backed his wife to the bitter end of the Democratic
 primaries, and neither of them could believe that a relatively obscure
 mixed race dude hiding out in Chicago could beat their NY state
 strategy to get to the White House. Hilary should have gone back to
 her Illinois roots.

 Clinton is out to help shore up the waning support for the beleaugered
 one in upper working class, lower middle class Demoncratia (it's the
 tanking economy dude).  The fact that his visage in the media will
 make the teabag types go ballistic can only help.

 I just wish he would get with Tony Blair and keep the ME peace process going!
 That and, with Bill Gates, solve world poverty.

 CJ

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Re: [Marxism-Thaxis] Fidel Castro Blasts Ahmadinejad As Anti-Semitic

On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 9:42 PM, CeJ jann...@gmail.com wrote:
CB: Yeah right. Sort of like Deng Chou Ping. I bet he has no influence
 whatsoever over the Cuban society and state.  He's a retired strongman
 (smile)

 I didn't know Fidel is a pile of ashes talking to your ancestors Charles.

^^^
CB: You mean like a pile of ashes talking to to pile of ashes ?



 I do know when I go into my favorite Egyptian cafe in Kuala Lumpur
 (Arab ex-pat community is big there), they all talk about A. and Ch.
 but if you say Castro, they say, 'Who?' Another big difference is that
 these guys are plurastically leading large populated countries, while
 Castro was always at best, without the third world movement
 pretensions, the leader of a micro-state.

^^^
CB: Do they say that Castro is now without influence in the micro-state ?

^


 I think I had a good point that the world Castro could relate to was
 Arafat and the PLO. Don't get me wrong, Arafat was one of my heroes,
 as is Castro.

 CJ


^
CB: Castro was the one who put out the big alarm about the US sending
ships to  harass Iran.  He is not some heavy critic of Iran and is a
long term critic  of Israel, which is why his very specific and narrow
criticism of A is significant. A probably sees it as advice from an
ancestor who is not yet a pile of ashes.

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[Marxism-Thaxis] How Bob King wants to build a new UAW

UAW PRESIDENT BOB KING
How Bob King wants to build a new UAW
He sees growth -- and a fair share for workers

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20100923/BUSINESS01/9230484/1014/business01template=fullarticle

BY BRENT SNAVELY
FREE PRESS BUSINESS WRITER

New UAW President Bob King said union workers have made huge
sacrifices to help automakers become more competitive and that it's
time for workers to share in the growing financial successes of GM,
Ford and Chrysler.

I want to see that when the upside is shared, that it is shared on
some fair, proportional basis, King said in a wide-ranging interview
with Free Press editors and reporters this week.

King outlined his vision for a union focused on broader economic
justice -- no matter how difficult to attain the ideals might be --
and cooperative problem solving between labor and management.

Paul Kersey, director of labor policy for the Mackinac Center for
Public Policy, said the union's push for a bigger share of the
automakers' success shows that the UAW remains out of touch.

Companies ought to be profitable, he said. Bob King seems to want
to treat this as a rainbow to prosperity now that the storm is over
... and I think it is very premature.

King also said it's time for America's CEOs to accept globally
competitive wages.

They are paid outlandishly more than anybody else in the rest of the
world, so that has to be addressed, King said.

Whether that view will lead the UAW to push for changes at the Detroit
Three remains to be seen. For now, King's strategy to lead the UAW
includes ramping up global organizing and re-inspiring the labor
movement. We are about making a better America, King said. We are
about making the companies successful.
A world of opportunity

UAW President Bob King, 64, elected to lead the union in June, has
brought a more open and aggressive style to the union as it tries to
grow its membership and prepares to renegotiate its four-year contract
with domestic automakers.

King discussed those and other challenges in a wide-ranging interview
with Free Press editors and reporters. The following is an edited
account of the discussion.

QUESTION: You would think, given the things going on, and the
sacrifices that workers are asked to make over and over, that this
would be labor's time. ... And yet it seems like maybe the opposite is
true, that labor is struggling to sort of keep traction. What's your
take on that?

A: Well, I think when you are 7% of the private sector, you don't have
anywhere near the clout or the leverage to win workers the fairness
that they deserve.

So, I think a huge responsibility of the UAW, and every union, is to
have aggressive, comprehensive strategies to organize.

Q: Do you see opportunities to expand labor's footprint?

A: Definitely. ... This is a UAW that understands the importance of
global competitiveness. It is a UAW that went through this horrendous
period of contraction in the industry because both labor and
management had it wrong. Now I think we have it right.

Q: Was it necessary to have the near-death experience for the Detroit
auto industry to get to that sort of mutual agreement around these
goals?

A: Well, I think people were moving there, but I think it certainly
speeded it up. It's a pretty sad statement to have to lose as many
members as we did and the companies had to close as many plants as
they did. But ... I'm excited that we have this foundation now. We
have the ability to grow market share and grow volume and put a lot of
people back to work.

Q: You've said on a couple of occasions that workers who have
sacrificed a lot through the collapse of the auto industry should gain
as things recover. What does that mean?

A: It's gaining financially. How we do that is an open question. ...
And I think there is a pretty broad understanding that we can't
bargain agreements that make the companies long-term uncompetitive. We
don't want to get back into the spiral that we just got out of. ...

We have to figure a path that really gives our membership ... their
fair share of the upside. ... I think our members made these huge
sacrifices. I want to see when the upside is shared, it is shared on
some proportionate basis.

Q: Are we at the point yet where we are getting to the upside, or are
there probably some more concessions that people will have to make?

A: I don't see any more concessions in this round of bargaining. My
view of the world, American manufacturing talks about being globally
competitive. We buy into that, and yet American CEOs are not globally
competitive. They are paid outlandishly more than anybody else in the
rest of the world. So that has to be addressed.

Q: Paint a picture of what bargaining does look like if pattern
bargaining is reduced.

A: Between Ford and General Motors and Chrysler, you do have to keep
fairness. ... Overall, we are not going to put one company at a
disadvantage to the other companies. That wouldn't be right. That
wouldn't be fair.

[Marxism-Thaxis] Code Pink

[ http://www.codepinkalert.org/ ]


September 24, 2010

Dear Friend, [ 
http://salsa.democracyinaction.org/o/424/t/8834/petition.jsp?petition_KEY=2298
]

Do you love The Daily Show as much as we do? Maybe like a lot of us,
you go to bed with Jon Stewart four nights a week, and find him a fun,
smart companion at the end of the day. Jon apparently doesn't feel
quite as cozy with us, however. When he recently announced his Rally
to Restore Sanity in DC to counter the extremists he feels are
dominating our national political discussion, he included CODEPINK
among the loud folks getting in the way of civil rhetoric [
http://www.thedailyshow.com/full-episodes/thu-september-16-2010-bill-clinton
]. He also equated progressives calling George Bush a war criminal
with right-wingers calling Obama Hitler! Jon, seriously??

Now, we are used to being called loud. We are proud of being loud. In
our post-9/11-24/7 news cycle, we've learned that the more audacious
and outrageous the action, the more likely we are to keep the anti-war
message in the national conversation. Jon Stewart says he wants to
restore sanity to Washington; we wish he could understand that we aim
for this, as well. We wish he could see that all the loud folks on
the left are actually part of a rational discussion about the future
of our nation as we irrationally engage in illegal occupations. What
is more insane, after all, than unjust war? What is more outrageous
than a US foreign policy of democracy at the barrel of a gun? And
really, what is saner than peace?

So we will be at Jon Stewart's rally on October 30 and will try to use
our best inside voices to bring our anti-war message (no promises on
the volume, though). Please join us if you can. [
mailto:i...@codepink.org?subject=i%20want%20to%20join%20you%20in%20dc%20for%2010-30-10
] *And bring your loudest outside voice to DC on October 2 for the
true progressive convergence, One Nation: March to Rebuild America and
End War.* [ http://www.codepink.org/section.php?id=430 ] We are
excited to join a coalition of unionists, civil rights groups,
immigrant rights leaders and social justice advocates to remind
Washington to Fund Jobs, Not War. Let's do it loud and proud.


And now here's your moment of Zen,
Dana, Farida, Gayle, Janet, Jean, Joan, Jodie, Lisa, Medea, Nancy,
Rae, Tighe, Valerie and Zaccai




 [ http://www.codepinkalert.org/ ]

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[Marxism-Thaxis] The Economy Is Not Coming Back

The Economy Is Not Coming Back
Part I: A Short History of the Maelstrom

by Gilles d'Aymery

(Swans - September 20, 2010)  Another mid-term election is looming
in the United States. Next November, the electorate will choose
the political team that in the midst of a recession and
widely-held fears about the future will carry the day. One side
will win. It matters not though, because neither of the two
contesting political parties is willing to face reality: The U.S.
is not in a so-called great recession. It is in a latent
depression. What has stopped it from becoming a full-fledged
depression has been the willingness of the elites, both under the
Bush II and Obama administrations, to resort to age-old Keynesian
policies to stem the hemorrhage -- soup kitchen lines have so far
been substituted by government checks in the mail. Some argue that
governments' actions have not been enough to stem the recessionary
times. Others claim that too much has been done, and time has come
to cut spending and taxes in order to let the economy run to its
natural ever-growing self. Again, it matters not, whatever
position is taken. Do or don't, the economy is not coming back,
and it should not. The Republican plan to cut spending (an age-old
endeavor) will only bring more pain and social devastation. The
Democratic plan to pump up the economy through deficit spending
will only delay the actuality that the bind we all are in is a
Catch-22. The economy that we have been used to in the past
half-century is simply not going to come back. This three-part
analysis will attempt to show the historical making of the dire
and deepening crisis we all face, then try to demonstrate why the
past paradigm won't and shouldn't come back, and end with a few
suggestions that hopefully will lead to a future that is not
predicated on the dead end the few want the many to embrace.

To fully grasp the extent of the current crisis one needs to take
a short and much abridged walk through history. Human
relationships have long been a story of antagonisms among the
haves and the have-nots. In the feudalism era sharecroppers and
peasants were peons of landowners and the divine royalties. The
rise of the entrepreneurial class with the advent of the
Industrial Revolution and capitalism led to a (often violent)
change in leadership. The bourgeoisie overthrew the old order and
the working masses migrated from the land to the mines and the
factories and the shipyards, etc. Working conditions were
execrable and the exploitation of the laborers was so prevalent
(1) that they benefited the happy few and led to la belle ?poque,
the Gilded Age, for the moneyed class whose rate of profits was
very high and to labor demands for more equitable sharing of the
created wealth and humane working conditions -- demands that were
met with recurring violent and bloody repressions. The class
struggles, which can be defined in layman's terms as profits for
the few vs. the well being of the many (and private property vs.
collective ownership), became the order of the era, increasingly
influenced by political economists and philosophers. (2) The 1917
Russian Revolution threatened the moneyed class more than ever
even though their hold on power with its resulting excesses in the
accumulation of wealth could not be tamed until the Great
Depression hit. In its wake, reformists like FDR and socialist
parties in Europe cut their feathers substantially. Progressive
taxation on income, estate, and capital was put in place; salaries
among the wealthiest and the average workers trimmed from a ratio
of about 400:1 to 30:1; social programs instituted... It must be
remembered that workers' rights, unions, public education, health
care, Social Security, public services, women's rights, civil
rights, secular regimes, etc., are all a legacy of the left, which
shed so much blood and tears to achieve these gains (even though
the record ought to be tempered by the same left's avocation of
the civilizing mission in far away lands -- i.e., colonialism).
Nonetheless, the moneyed class became so worried about the loss of
their privileges and the spread of socialist ideas that they, in
Europe and in the U.S., supported Mussolini's Fascism and Hitler's
National Socialism until well into World War Two when Hitler,
instead of focusing on their interests -- the destruction of the
Soviet Union and communist expansion in Europe -- launched an
attack on their own countries and interests.

In 1945, Europe lay in ruins, its infrastructure and industries
devastated, its people impoverished, lacking food and services
(like electricity and water). Communist parties, particularly in
France and Italy, gained strong traction and the influence of the
Soviet Union loomed large. Threatened by the advance of leftist
ideas, the powers-that-be chose to join them half way. Western
elites devised a reconstruction plan based on Keynesian-Fordism --
state control and planning of the economy to varying degrees, mass

[Marxism-Thaxis] One and a Half Cheers for American Decline