[Marxism] Query on Tunisia
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == An old friend and squash partner is planning a trip to Tunisia to do some filming and writing. Does anybody have contacts there who speak English? Please contact me privately. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] query
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == I'm getting considerable advice independently from various quarters that I should consider a literary agent. If anybody has any experience or recommendations on this, I'd appreciate your contacting me offlist at mla...@cinci.rr.com. Thanks. Mark L. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] query - Russia and Russian Rev; social history and primary sources
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == All, I am looking for input on two types of readings about early 20th Century Russia and the Russian Revolution: a) first hand accounts of the revolution and early soviet experience with a focus on the lived experience of the class...for this purpose, I am less interested in political accounts (accounts of politics, groups, institutional maneouvering etc.), per se. I have already searched MIA and come up with some usual suspects: John Reed, Serge, Raskolnikoff, and some letters from Lenin... b) A social (yet preferably Marxist) history of Russia during the decade or so around 1917. Again, my interest is not on the political but on the social, i.e. what were the populations of people, what was their lived experience like, how were the neighborhood? The factories (while I've not read Kevin Murphy's book, which is suppose to be great, it is more of a political accounting, no?)? The soviets? life in the military? If this is too broad a question, apologies ... and thanks in advance. -Aaron -- Seek for food and clothing first, then the Kingdom of God shall be added unto you. Hegel, 1807 The class struggle, which is always present to a historian influenced by Marx, is a fight for the crude and material things without which no refined and spiritual things could exist. Nevertheless, it is not in the form of the spoils which fall to the victor that the latter make their presence felt in the class struggle. They manifest themselves in this struggle as courage, humor, cunning, and fortitude. They have retroactive force and will constantly call in question every victory, past and present, of the rulers. As flowers turn toward the sun, by dint of a secret heliotropism the past strives to turn toward that sun which is rising in the sky of history. A historical materialist must be aware of this most inconspicuous of all transformations. -Walter Benjamin, Spring, 1940 Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] query on wallerstein / science / colonialism
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Another good book is Brockway, Lucille. 1979. Science and colonial expansion: The role of the British royal botanic gardens. New York: Academic Press. Michael Perelman Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Query on Acrobat Pro
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Does anybody have a copy to evaluate? Please contact me offlist. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] query re author on Palestine in the 30s and 40s
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Good suggestion. Here you go: http://www.newjerseysolidarity.org/resources/kanafani/kanafani4.htm On Wed, Aug 4, 2010 at 10:36 AM, Tom Cod tomc...@gmail.com wrote: Maybe you can post a link to info about this revolt because I think, sadly, most people have never even heard of it. Thanks so much. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] query re author on Palestine in the 30s and 40s
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == What is ironic about this revolt is that Neville Chamberlain committed nearly half the British army to suppressing it, all the while allowing Hitler to extend his influence throughout Eastern and Central Europe. Of course, I'm not sure that Chamberlain thought that Hitler's power in that region was a bad thing.--Tom On Aug 4, 2010, at 11:03 AM, Andrew Pollack wrote: == Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Good suggestion. Here you go: http://www.newjerseysolidarity.org/resources/kanafani/kanafani4.htm On Wed, Aug 4, 2010 at 10:36 AM, Tom Cod tomc...@gmail.com wrote: Maybe you can post a link to info about this revolt because I think, sadly, most people have never even heard of it. Thanks so much. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/ marxism/biastg%40embarqmail.com Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] query re author on Palestine in the 30s and 40s
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == There is Perry Anderson's piece from NLR August 2001 at http://www.newleftreview.org/A2330 which has something on the 35-9 revolt. There is also a good blog on Orde Wingate's role in putting down the revolt and in training the Zionist death squads, called Special Night Squads, (of special interest is his relationship with Moshe Dayan) at http://ellissharp.blogspot.com/2006/05/orde-wingate-war-criminal.html. An interesting Wiki is at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_Night_Squads I found this paragraph below to be especially interesting: It shows that to put down the Palestinian uprising the British had to form an alliance with the Haganah, and in so doing they helped prepare the way for the Zionist victories of 47-8. comradely Gary [The Defence of Palestine: Insurrection and Public Security, 1936-1939 Charles Townshend The English Historical Reviewhttp://www.jstor.org.ezproxy.library.uq.edu.au/action/showPublication?journalCode=englhistrevi, Vol. 103, No. 409 (Oct., 1988), pp. 917-949] * The political dangers of this [a military alliance with the Zionists] were too obvious for it to be seriously contemplated, and the nearest the authorities came to mobilizing the Jews (apart from the bucolic home-guard activities of the Jewish Settle- ment and Supernumary Police) was through the - distinctly subter- ranean - Special Night Squads. The authorities joined the Jews underground, as it were, with strikingly successful results; but they thereby signed the death warrant of the Mandate. By simultaneously breaking up the unstable Palestinian national movement, and fostering mainstream military Zionism (as distinct from the terrorist extremism of the Irgun, Lehi and 'Stern gang'), they not only skewed the symmetry of interests which gave British rule its claim to legitimacy, but went far to create the very force that finally undermined British rule in Pales- tine after I945. (p. 937) * Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] query from a reader of Monthly Review/civil rights movement, etc.
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == In.com received the following note. Can anyone help him? Send to me at mikedjya...@msn.com I write you because I'm also a historian, and in the coming semester I will be teaching contemporary American history at the University of Copenhagen. Recently your magazine included an interview on Fred Hampton (http://www.monthlyreview.org/091201haas.php), which was translated into Danish in The New Clarté. I'm curious if there has been done any historical research into the many radical off-springs from the civil rights movement in the US in the 1960's (like Blackstone Rangers, Young Lords, Young Patriots, etc.)? I know some of these groups later degenerated into criminal, non-political, gangs, but still I think it could be very interesting for my students to get to know about this very diverse movement. Of course, if you have any recommendations for me with respect to historical books on the civil right movement in general, the Black Panther Party, or black national groups from the same period, I will also be very interested. Thanks to anyone who can help. michael yates Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] query Paris Commune
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Mark, BTW, I had a, rather well known professor (who now teaches at West Point) whose specialty was German military history. No leftist he (nor is he anything like the kind of nut one might expect to specialize German military history) , however he said that Engels' Military Notes on the F-P war (which, I think ended after the armistice in January, 71) were some of the best military analysis he ever read. Exact words from an email to me: given the information available to him and the speed in which he was able to analyze events and see certain outcomes, they are almost without compare. Matt Matt _ The New Busy is not the old busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your inbox. http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_3 Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] query Paris Commune
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Thanks, Matt. We tend to forget that Engels was very well-read in military affairs and had been an officer in the revolutionary fighting that continued in Baden well into 1849...and under August Willich, the member of the Communist League who cut such a remarkable career in the American Civil War. The Franco-German War is very different, making not only a fascinating military study, but demonstrating just how difficult it was to unravel the politics of a modern war. Still, to Paris The heart of the Commune was the rebellion of the National Guard, but what did this mean in terms of numbers, organization, etc.? Sources talk about up to 300 battalions of the National Guard at the time of the Prussian siege of Paris, but what did this mean...particularly what did this mean for the later Commune? There's a massive library of sources available between Google books and Gallica (the website of the Bibliotechque Nationale. I've been plowing through these, as I've gotten the chance, and been astonished at the lack of information as to that key question of military strength. On the battalions of the National Guard, how many organized and armed men were there really? And how many in a battalion? How were they organized? How did this change over time? And what are the legions and regiments of the National Guard? Do they consist of the battalions or were they something different? And what about the units of the regular army that crossed over to the Commune? These seem to me to be such an elementary questions that it should be answered somewhere in the literature of such a well-worked subject. If not, it might be worth the time to take a stab at coming up with the answer Solidarity! Mark L. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] query Paris Commune
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == I'm trying to find material on: 1) the military strength of the Paris Commune; 2) how it was organized, and; 3) how that organization may or may not have changed over the course of its history. Most of what I've read on this (including in the available French sources) are remarkably uninformative. I wonder if the information even exists. But knowing that many on this list are probably more well-read on this subject than I am, I figured I'd ask if anyone has seen anything on this... Any help would be appreciated. ML Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] query on Thai protests
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Most of Giles Ji Ungpakorn's articles, with other material, have also appeared at links International Journal of Socialist Renewal. Collected at http://links.org.au/taxonomy/term/296 Terry Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Query from Clancy Sigal
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == And an excellent take on this, or at least on the period that led up to it, and the views of those participants later in 1969 when the film was made, is The Sorrow and the Pity about the history of France and French society in World War 2. The only guy who acted like a swaggering victor in the 1969 follow-up interview was actually the former SS officer who after the war returned to his prosperous rural bourgois (or burger) life in a rural town and who is shown with his family at one of his sons' weddings holding forth with the stub of a cigar stuck in his mouth and his discrete little Wehrmacht veteran pins on his lapel. Also of interest is the veteran of the French unit that fought on the Russian Front (Vichy's Charlemagne Legion), a guy who before the war had been a young supporter of the fascist Action Francais but who by 1969 was living in his opulent palatial 18th Century house decked out as a trendy forty something Hugh Hefner type ruminating on the senselessness of so much of it. So at this point you're saying your basically a liberal? the interviewer asks him to which he responds in a pensive manner, . . . you know, I think that's right[!]. His one big issue having been when Le Marachal (Petain) refused to see him and his buddies late in the war in 1945 to lodge a protest against having to now actually wear German uniforms. This in the wake of the fall of East Prussia which he ruminates reminded him with great irony of the scenes in France in June 1940, but only worse. It's available on netflix. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] query
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Reviewers of two new books of work by Milt Gross, one of them titled Is Diss a System?, point out that unbeknownst to most of us, the phrase in that title was not originated by R. Crumb, who used it on a cover of Zap Comix. I had assumed Crumb used it to refer ironically to the systems analysis then prominent in business/academia/the military, and/or to criticisms of systems by radicals, or both. Which may be the case, but he didn't originate the phrase. So now the question is: What did Gross mean by it? (It also appears in a Lorenz Hart lyric, but the website mentioning that doesn't know the origin either.) Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Query
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Lately I have been bombarded with invitations from apparently new journals asking for papers or recruits to the editorial boards. SInce I am not qualified for most of these, I assume it is part of a mass mailing to scientists. In a few cases there are hints of corporate sponsorship. So what is going on? Are others on the list having similar experience? = Richard Levins Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Query: Southern Poverty Law Center
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 9:38 PM, John Obrien causecollec...@msn.com wrote: Sadly, the Southern Poverty Law Center is funded and controlled by the ADL. So while they may be watching the right wing groups - please be aware that the ADL has been caught spying on the left and one must assume for two governments. The current real left U. S. groups, do not have at present, the resources to spy on the right wing, as the Southern Poverty Law Center does, so their reports can be useful - BUT these reports are to manily generate funding for the Southern Poverty Law Center staff, and they are not part of the left, but liberals - and these crucial points, should not be confused by those who are on this list. I've come across a few such references, one in particular from a 9-11 Truth organization in Long Island. There is also the fact that the SPLC includes the New Black Panther group on their hate list. That says something as well. It would not surprise if they are indeed spying for the US government. The ADL reference is new to me, but unsurprising. Like I said, some of the information can be useful, some not. I certainly won't be sending them a check in the mail. Greg McD Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Query: Southern Poverty Law Center
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Sadly, the Southern Poverty Law Center is funded and controlled by the ADL. So while they may be watching the right wing groups - please be aware that the ADL has been caught spying on the left and one must assume for two governments. The current real left U. S. groups, do not have at present, the resources to spy on the right wing, as the Southern Poverty Law Center does, so their reports can be useful - BUT these reports are to manily generate funding for the Southern Poverty Law Center staff, and they are not part of the left, but liberals - and these crucial points, should not be confused by those who are on this list. Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2010 05:15:23 -0500 From: gregm...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Marxism] Query: Southern Poverty Law Center To: causecollec...@msn.com == Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == These legal groups have obvious limitations, but from time to time they bring some good lawsuits against the Klan and other fascists. The real shame is that nobody on the left that I know of is keeping tabs on the Minutemen, the Klan etc., so if we want any information at all, we have to go to groups such as the SPLC for the background. I don't think anyone here is suggesting the SPLC is an organization which should be emulated by future working-class organizations, if and when they do arise. It's so very easy to criticize the way-too-obvious shortcomings of other organizations, but that should be the first step to laying the groundwork for something different. Criticism without doing the spade work to bring about some kind of alternative is really just empty. For my part, I'll take the good information and leave the bad. Good info. can be useful. Here in the south Latino organizations will continue to work with the ACLU for obvious reasons. Many if not most are undocumented workers. As far as I'm concerned, the Latino groups are in the vanguard, as demonstrated by the mass May Day demos of 2006. Those demos were all about pressuring Congress for an extension of legal rights to work in the USA without the fear of being arrested and deported. Without the fear of deportation, union organizing becomes more possible. The Latino groups are still pushing the same agenda. More power to them. If they want the legal cover provided by ACLU lawyers, that's fine by me. At least the latter care enough to be involved, and are doing something useful with their law degrees. Greg On Fri, Mar 5, 2010 at 12:12 AM, sha...@aol.com wrote: Well, I have a take on the SPLC and it follows. Its self-righteousness and bevy of acolytes make me cringe. Its petty-bourgeois moralism is repulsive. Punishing the consequences of capitalist decay can run the risk of a fundamental assault on civil liberties and it seems to me that the SPLC comes close to that. The defense of the bill of rights is better left to the ACLU - even though that organization, when it extended from civil liberties to civil rights as its focus evolved into an organization for the political advancement of its cadre. Historically, the National Lawyers Guild should have filled the role that these organizations now attempt to. But after falling in love with itself in the sixties it fell prey to the would be leftists who wanted to transform it into a left political party. The only organization that came close to acting as a vanguard for democracy realized through law was the Workers Defense League which pretty much disappeared after Roland Watts. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/causecollector%40msn.com Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Query: Southern Poverty Law Center
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == These legal groups have obvious limitations, but from time to time they bring some good lawsuits against the Klan and other fascists. The real shame is that nobody on the left that I know of is keeping tabs on the Minutemen, the Klan etc., so if we want any information at all, we have to go to groups such as the SPLC for the background. I don't think anyone here is suggesting the SPLC is an organization which should be emulated by future working-class organizations, if and when they do arise. It's so very easy to criticize the way-too-obvious shortcomings of other organizations, but that should be the first step to laying the groundwork for something different. Criticism without doing the spade work to bring about some kind of alternative is really just empty. For my part, I'll take the good information and leave the bad. Good info. can be useful. Here in the south Latino organizations will continue to work with the ACLU for obvious reasons. Many if not most are undocumented workers. As far as I'm concerned, the Latino groups are in the vanguard, as demonstrated by the mass May Day demos of 2006. Those demos were all about pressuring Congress for an extension of legal rights to work in the USA without the fear of being arrested and deported. Without the fear of deportation, union organizing becomes more possible. The Latino groups are still pushing the same agenda. More power to them. If they want the legal cover provided by ACLU lawyers, that's fine by me. At least the latter care enough to be involved, and are doing something useful with their law degrees. Greg On Fri, Mar 5, 2010 at 12:12 AM, sha...@aol.com wrote: Well, I have a take on the SPLC and it follows. Its self-righteousness and bevy of acolytes make me cringe. Its petty-bourgeois moralism is repulsive. Punishing the consequences of capitalist decay can run the risk of a fundamental assault on civil liberties and it seems to me that the SPLC comes close to that. The defense of the bill of rights is better left to the ACLU - even though that organization, when it extended from civil liberties to civil rights as its focus evolved into an organization for the political advancement of its cadre. Historically, the National Lawyers Guild should have filled the role that these organizations now attempt to. But after falling in love with itself in the sixties it fell prey to the would be leftists who wanted to transform it into a left political party. The only organization that came close to acting as a vanguard for democracy realized through law was the Workers Defense League which pretty much disappeared after Roland Watts. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Query: Southern Poverty Law Center
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Well, I have a take on the SPLC and it follows. Its self-righteousness and bevy of acolytes make me cringe. Its petty-bourgeois moralism is repulsive. Punishing the consequences of capitalist decay can run the risk of a fundamental assault on civil liberties and it seems to me that the SPLC comes close to that. The defense of the bill of rights is better left to the ACLU - even though that organization, when it extended from civil liberties to civil rights as its focus evolved into an organization for the political advancement of its cadre. Historically, the National Lawyers Guild should have filled the role that these organizations now attempt to. But after falling in love with itself in the sixties it fell prey to the would be leftists who wanted to transform it into a left political party. The only organization that came close to acting as a vanguard for democracy realized through law was the Workers Defense League which pretty much disappeared after Roland Watts. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Query on Joseph Wilson (of Niger uranium fame)
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Joseph C Wilson http://www.spintelligent-events.com/power-indaba-2010/en/Featuredspeakers.php, CEO, JC Wilson Investment Ventures, United States and former United States Ambassador He's coming to Durban later this month, as part of the Africa Utilities 'Power Indaba' Conference (http://www.spintelligent-events.com/power-indaba-2010/en/index.php) that has raised some concerns. Does anyone have anything interesting to tell us about Wilson so we understand context? Cheers, Patrick Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Query on Joseph Wilson (of Niger uranium fame)
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == At 10:27 08/02/10 +0200, Patrick Bond wrote: Joseph C Wilson http://www.spintelligent-events.com/power-indaba-2010/en/Featuredspeakers. php, CEO, JC Wilson Investment Ventures, United States and former United States Ambassador He's coming to Durban later this month, Well I don't have any deep information to help you, but I'll take this as an opportunity to offer my rant about the guy. I was sort of disgusted because a lot of the soft-left antiwar movement sort of described him as a hero of some sort for having contradicted Bush's lie about Iraq obtaining uranium from Africa. Yes, he did in fact go to Niger and report back to the effect that Bush's claims were false. So yes, he told the truth, which is better than lying. But that only came to people's attention much later, in the summer of 2003, when he finally went public with it, whereas he said NOTHING PUBLICALLY before the beginning of the war, when it could well have made a difference! So it's sort of a case of doing the right thing at the wrong time! The information he had was explosive, and he deliberately chose to avoid revealing it while the bombs were raining down on Baghdad, clearly putting his allegiance to the system ahead of any humanity. I consider that completely criminal. Now when he went to Niger in 2002 he did it at the request of the CIA. I'll say that again. He was working for the CIA. Unless I don't understand the English language, that means he is or was A CIA AGENT. I'm saying that here out loud, aware that all of you in the US could actually go to jail for making a statement of that sort! So once again: Joseph Wilson was or IS A CIA AGENT, and I can hardly think of a worse thing to say about someone! And yes, he was (as we know now) married to a CIA agent, and that she was (until her career was ruined by being exposed by the white house in the vindictive move against her husband) a lifer in the CIA. And I have never heard this mentioned, but that means that when he was the deputy US ambassador to Iraq in 1998 - 1991 prior to the first US war (which he helped engineer on the diplomatic front), that he brought his wife, A CIA AGENT also into Iraq under the cover of diplomatic immunity! When diplomats are accused of spying, the US always denies that such a thing is possible, that these are separated functions. Ha! That means that the CIA had a direct plant right in Baghdad who couldn't be touched and could smuggle whatever she wanted out of Iraq in the ambassador's pouch. Not just Iraq, but he had several other diplomatic assignments, presumably also bringing along and giving cover to his wife, the career CIA agent: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_C._Wilson#Diplomatic_career I'm sorry I don't have any inside info about his JC Wilson International Ventures Corp. but I don't think I'll be doing business with them! I imagine he's making lots of money using his expertise gained through his wife's CIA activities in every African country where he had a diplomatic post. I hope you can dig up some more dirt on him before he appears at this conference. But the bottom line is that he was or is a CIA agent, and withheld from the public crucial information that would have countered the Bush war drive against Iraq. - Jeff as part of the Africa Utilities 'Power Indaba' Conference (http://www.spintelligent-events.com/power-indaba-2010/en/index.php) that has raised some concerns. Does anyone have anything interesting to tell us about Wilson so we understand context? Cheers, Patrick Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Query: Viietnam bombing
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Thanks to everyone who responded. sartesian gets the elephant stamp for finding just what I needed. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Query: Viietnam bombing
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == It's commonly said that more bombs were dropped on Vietnam during that war than in all of World War II. Can anyone suggest an authoritative source for this -- one I can footnote? thanks. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Query: Viietnam bombing
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Check this: http://www.cepr.org/meets/wkcn/7/765/papers/Roland.pdf Page 3: We exploit a uniquely data-rich historical episode to estimate the impact of war on long-run economic performance, the U.S. bombing of Vietnam (what Vietnamese call the American War). The Indochina War, centered in Vietnam, was the most intense episode of aerial bombing in human history: the United States Air Force dropped in Indochina, from 1964 to August 15, 1973, a total of 6,162,000 tons of bombs and other ordnance. U.S. Navy and Marine Corps aircraft expended another 1,500,000 tons in Southeast Asia. This tonnage far exceeded that expended in World War II and in the Korean War. The U.S. Air Force consumed 2,150,000 tons of munitions in World War II - 1,613,000 tons in the European Theater and 537,000 tons in the Pacific Theater - and 454,000 tons in the Korean War (Clodfelter 1995). Thus Vietnam War bombing represented at least three times as much (by weight) as both European and Pacific theater World War II bombing combined, and about thirteen times total tonnage in the Korean War. Given the prewar Vietnamese population of approximately 32 million, U.S. bombing translates into hundreds of kilograms of explosives per capita during the conflict. - Original Message - From: Tom O'Lincoln suar...@alphalink.com.au sartes...@earthlink.net It's commonly said that more bombs were dropped on Vietnam during that war than in all of World War II. Can anyone suggest an authoritative source for this -- one I can footnote? thanks. net Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Query on British historiography
Lou is showing rather a isolationist view of WWII here, without any conception of the European view of WWII - which although it started in 1939 as a simple war between Germany and Britain and France brought about as what one might well say was a richly deserved result of the appeasement, even encouragement, of fascism from 1933 through the Nazi occupation of Austria and Czechoslovakia, etc. by the British and French ruling classes (large sections of which were strong supporters of Franco, and a not inconsiderable numbers supporters of Hitler)- well demonstrated with the readiness with which the French ruling class formed a puppet government under the Nazis, the war became - well before the entry of USA into WWII as a result of the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbour - became, certainly from 1941, if not before, a war of liberation, and inherently an anti-fascist struggle. No wonder it was supported by the whole of the working classes of Europe. Churchill, of course, was well-known as an anti-semite, and a vicious opponent of the working class and its organisations, and virulently anti-communist and anti-soviet. BUT he became Prime Minister in what amounted to a coup in 1940 by the section of the ruling class which were not supporters of fascism and IMMEDIATELY after the Nazi attack on the Soviet Union his patriotism overcame his anti-communist virulence to the extent that the the following day announced his country and the Soviet Union as allies. From then on there could be no doubt that WWII was a just war, a war of liberation against fascism - and anyone who now seeks to dispute that is effectively a holocaust denier. Bringing the Bengal famine into the argument is a red herring. British communists - and indeed the working class movement in Britain generally, were active throughout the war - and before - in promoting the anti-colonial struggle; but all direct contact with Marxists in India were effectively impossible during the war - though the representative of the Indian Congress, Krishna Menon, was speaker at many many public meetings organised during the war - and many on the left were advocating the handing over of power before the end of the war. The assessment of Churchill by the British working class as a war leader who, in general deserved support for the time, but was inherently an enemy of the working class was clearly shown in the general election, which followed shortly after the Nazi surrender - when Churchill and his party were rejected in a landslide (an election in which I, as a troop officer in 2nd Armoured Brigade, but still under 21, did not have a vote - but you can bet your bottom dollar that most of those in the Brigade old enough to have a vote rejected Churchill, as did the majority of the working class back home. What happened in the ensuing years, with the Labour government coming more and more under the thumbs of Washington, until it too was rejected by the electorate, is another story Paddy http://apling.freeservers.com - Original Message - From: Louis Proyect l...@panix.com To: e.c.apl...@btinternet.com Sent: Friday, September 18, 2009 10:53 PM Subject: Re: [Marxism] Query on British historiography Paul Flewers wrote: The Second World War was the last time that Britain played anything like a major role on a world scale, and I guess that the endless commemorating of it here is at least in part an unconscious recognition of this. After more furniture busting than has been seen since the barroom fight in Shane, the comments on Stalin Nostalgia and Churchill Nostalgia have died down on my blog. I don't want to stir things up there again, but do want to offer another thought about it here where belief in a Good War is less entrenched presumably. It seems that both sides in the debate agree that Churchill was fighting an imperialist war but Newman and company argue that this was secondary to the need to defeat Hitler. Every effort had to be bent toward mobilizing the working class for a militant war against Hitler, even if it was under the stewardship of a dog like Churchill. That poses the question of the responsibilities of Marxists. How in the world can a pro-war revolutionary current possibly not agitate around all the terrible things that the British ruling class was up to? For example, I have been harping on Bengal. If Indian Communists told their British comrades what was going on, it would be *criminal* not to mount demonstrations against the policies that led to a famine that would kill 3 million Indians. Remaining silent around such issues would of course be dictated by the need to get everybody on a war footing and follow the military/political machine but it would end up discrediting the revolutionary pro-war left. Which of course is what happened in the USA. If a parallel process took place in Britain, that would be an interesting topic to research but I have
Re: [Marxism] Query on British historiography
On Sep 19, 2009, at 1:53 PM, Paddy Apling wrote: ...From then [June 22, 1941] on there could be no doubt that WWII was a just war, a war of liberation against fascism - and anyone who now seeks to dispute that is effectively a holocaust denier. Anyone who claims that the firestorm bombings of Hamburg, Berlin, Dresden, Tokyo, Hiroshima, Nagasaki, etc., etc., were part of a just war; any one who claims that the Bengal famine was part of a just war; is literally, not effectively, denying a holocaust. Shane Mage This cosmos did none of gods or men make, but it always was and is and shall be: an everlasting fire, kindling in measures and going out in measures. Herakleitos of Ephesos YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Query on British historiography
Paddy Apling wrote: Bringing the Bengal famine into the argument is a red herring. British communists - and indeed the working class movement in Britain generally, were active throughout the war - and before - in promoting the anti-colonial struggle; but all direct contact with Marxists in India were effectively impossible during the war - though the representative of the Indian Congress, Krishna Menon, was speaker at many many public meetings organised during the war - and many on the left were advocating the handing over of power before the end of the war. This remark is not only philistine: It suggests that Comrade Apling is an ignoramus. As a general rule, you should keep mum concerning matters such that your knowledge is that of a dilettante. I apologize to the comrades for my outburst, but it was impossible to allow such a remark to pass. epoliticus -- In the tender annals of Political Economy, the idyllic reigns from time immemorial ... the present year of course always excepted. -- A German refugee, circa 1867 -- http://epoliticus.wordpress.com/ YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Query on British historiography
I suppose it must be my age showing but have a fascination with this topic I must confess and it is good to see Paddy take a part in the thread. WW2 is a complex phenomenon and it is unfortunate that Trotsky did not live long enough to make a definitive contribution to its analysis. I am away from my library so I cannot check on Deutscher's writing about Trotksy's views. From memory Trotsky began by saying WW2 was a continuation of WW1 but there was I believe a but in his analysis and unfortunately we were not to get what he thought the but was. What I think is happening in this thread is that we are debating the but. Unlike we Marxists the revisionist historians, like Niall Ferguson, have nothing negative to say about imperialist wars. They want more of them. But they tend to see that the compromises Churchill had to make weakened the British Empire. For the right the key compromises were the alliance with Russia and even more important the accepting of junior status vis a vis American Imperialism. Despite his disavowals and the maneuverings of people like Ernest Bevin, it was Churchill who at his Atlantic summit meeting with FDR, who agreed to accepting inferior role for the mighty British. And needless to say the Americans have been cashing in on the Churchillian promises ever since. However there was a leftist dimensions to the Churchillian compromises and Paddy has outlined some of these. I would say that the biggest compromise Churchill made was his probably very reluctant acceptance of the Beveridge Report of 1942. However as Paddy pointed out the British public did not trust Churchill with the implementation of the Beveridge Report which had recommended the establishment of a welfare state and gave him short shrift at the 1945 election. Now of course the Atlee government was undermined by Washington, but folk like Ernest Bevin did not need much undermining. However the most important point is that not only Churchill compromised during WW2, the left also compromised when it agreed to have Churchill as the national leader. Moreover it was the sort of inter-class compromise that was to determine the shape of post WW2 Britain. Of course inter class compromises were the very stuff that Stalinism was made of and when pray tell did they ever work? On second thoughts - don't answer that, unlike Lou I do not have the courage to face the arguments that would follow. regards Gary YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Query on British historiography
Re Lou P's query: I ought to know more about this, but from what I know the British revisionist historians tend to be right-wingers who feel that Churchill's line brought Britain unnecessarily into a war with Germany, and as a result lost its Empire. They feel that Britain could have stayed out of a war with Germany, and thereby maintained its global position. The myth of the 'good war' remains very strong in Britain, and, as the case of Andy Newman shows, it can even attract those who at one point adhered to an anti-war position. Churchill was canny enough to incorporate much Popular Front verbiage in his presentations; the soft left therefore thinks that this made the war 'theirs'. Hence their fond memories. Even today -- indeed, I'd say especially today -- one can't get away from the war, even though it ended 64 years ago and anyone fighting in it must be over 80 years old now. Practically any excuse is enough to get someone trying to commemorate something or somebody; every night on the telly there will be someone rabbiting on about some aspect or another about the war. The Second World War was the last time that Britain played anything like a major role on a world scale, and I guess that the endless commemorating of it here is at least in part an unconscious recognition of this. Paul F YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Query on Eastern Europe teachers
Thank you Louis You are very helpful. best wishes Lena On 16 Sep 2009, at 14:29, Louis Proyect wrote: Lena Corner wrote: Hi Thank you very much. I think it got no replies. Have you any bright ideas where else would be a good place to search? best and thanks for all your help Lena Lena, I am repeating your query. Maybe this will jog people's attention. Also, you might want to post this query to Johnson's Russia List: http://www.cdi.org/russia/johnson/default.cfm Hello Louis I am writing from a production company in London called Shady Lane Productions, just carrying out some research into a documentary project I am working on. I am trying to track down some Marxism teachers who worked in the Eastern Bloc prior to 1989. I wondered if this is anything you would know or about or be able to help me with. If you need more information please let me know and I can elaborate on the project. Best wishes Lena Corner YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/ marxism/lenacorner%40mac.com YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Query regarding suspicious activity on my blog
Dear comrades: I have a question that hopefully those comrades who are more internet savvy than I might answer. I recently posted a blog entry entitled Indian's Favourite Fascist, Again. That blog entry has been exceptionally popular in the sense that it has got almost 200 reads, by far the most I have got of any piece to date. But I noticed something peculiar about the pattern of hits. There is an IP address that hits the blog exactly every 30 mins, at the top of each hour, and at 30 mins. past the hour. I cannot determine the originating IP address, except that it is from within the U.S. perhaps. I also know that this has been going on for about 24 hours. This strikes me as rather strange and I have no hypothesis that can account for my observation. Does something have ideas about what might be the source, and why this is happening? Thanks. -- In the tender annals of Political Economy, the idyllic reigns from time immemorial ... the present year of course always excepted. -- A German refugee, circa 1867 -- http://epoliticus.wordpress.com/ YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Query regarding suspicious activity on my blog
On my way out sorry for the brevity, but it might be simply a bot. Send me an email with the IP and I'll give it a lookup for you. Politicus E. wrote: Dear comrades: I have a question that hopefully those comrades who are more internet savvy than I might answer. I recently posted a blog entry entitled Indian's Favourite Fascist, Again. That blog entry has been exceptionally popular in the sense that it has got almost 200 reads, by far the most I have got of any piece to date. But I noticed something peculiar about the pattern of hits. There is an IP address that hits the blog exactly every 30 mins, at the top of each hour, and at 30 mins. past the hour. I cannot determine the originating IP address, except that it is from within the U.S. perhaps. I also know that this has been going on for about 24 hours. This strikes me as rather strange and I have no hypothesis that can account for my observation. Does something have ideas about what might be the source, and why this is happening? Thanks. YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Query regarding suspicious activity on my blog
re/ in-addr.arpa see: http://www.freesoft.org/CIE/Course/Section2/15.htm send your logs offlist and i will take a look, gotta run ... Les YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Query on British historiography
Andy Newman, the Socialist Unity blogger, has posted a number of articles recently that can best be described as pro-WWII, for lack of a better term. In other words, it is the classic CP position even though Newman has not exactly been associated with the CP. One article is distinctly odd. Festooned with a picture of the dreadful Winston Churchill, it characterizes him as a virtual Lincoln leading a war of social emancipation that led to the decolonization of India, bolstering of trade unions in Britain, etc. My question is whether there has ever been a revisionist tendency in Britain that is the counterpart of William A. Williams, Gar Alperovitz, Gabriel Kolko et al in the USA? Was the fact of Britain remaining a peripheral player in Vietnam an influence on British historians in not getting to the root of imperialist war? Did the continuing respect accorded the CP historian's school (Hobsbawm, Hill, Thompson) cause younger historians to be more respectful to the Good War than was appropriate? Etc., etc. YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
