Re: [Marxism-Thaxis] Ralph: Class antagonism ... the dialectic (OK Ralph) .

[Waistline2]

According to Marx, the social contradiction which can only be resolved by  
revolution is that between the forces of production and the relations of  
production. The most common Marxist interpretation of this assertion is that  
forces of production means capital (sometimes our latter day Marxists 
implicitly  limit this to technology, so that the "full development of the 
forces 
of  production" is interpreted solely as the presence of advanced, highly 
productive  machinery) while relations of production means the system of 
production,  appropriation, and exchange. 
 
In reality, Marx meant something quite different. Forces of production  
includes both capital and labor, while relations of production includes  
capitalists and workers. Thus the proletariat is an essential of both sides of  
the antagonism—on one side as the creator of use value, on the other as wage  
laborer. The contradiction is therefore internal and essential to the 
working  class itself, and cannot be resolved externally. STO's political 
line—in  
particular our understanding of the role of white skin privilege—is based 
on  this recognition of the conflict internal to the proletariat. 
_http://www.autodidactproject.org/other/howtothink.html_ 
(http://www.autodidactproject.org/other/howtothink.html)  
 
Comment 
 
I do not means to be overly harsh but I find the above just plain old silly 
 and nonsense. By antagonism is apparently meant a bad contradiction which  
requires fighting or someone getting hurt to overthrow a class. Locating 
capital  and labor within productive forces, denies they are historical, 
predating  capitalist and proletariat. 
 
"Thus the proletariat is an essential of both sides of the antagonism—on  
one side as the creator of use value, on the other as wage laborer. The  
contradiction is therefore internal and essential to the working class itself,  
and cannot be resolved externally." 
 
What in God’s name does this mesh of nonsense mean? The capitalist as  
personification of capital and the proletariat as personification of the  
commodity form of labor power in the market are not products of the productive  
forces but rather, a creation of a long history of the evolution of private  
property. I do recognize the above material is dated. 
 
I do not do white skin privilege stuff in articulating degrees of bribery  
of the Anglo American people relative to blacks, browns, Asians in our 
history. 
 
The intent of the glossary is not to write in dialectics or dialectically  
but to present basic Marxist concepts as we understand how the American mind 
 thinks things out. The narratives strive to induce a desire in the 
individual to  do their own study of Marx. 
 
Here are a couple more terms. 
 
Relations of production: (social relations of production, production  
relations) : 
 
Marx's use of the concept of relations of production: 
 
"In the social production of their existence, men inevitably enter into  
definite relations, which are independent of their will, namely relations of  
production appropriate to a given stage in the development of their material 
 forces of production. (1859 Preface to A Contribution to the Critique of  
Political Economy) 
 
Relations of production refer to the connection, interactivity within and  
between classes at a given stage of development of productive forces. In 
real  life relations of production are interactive with productive forces, one  
becoming the environment of operations for the other.  Capitalist relations 
 of production consist of a labor force with no means of support other than 
their  ability to work, and capitalists who own land, raw materials, tools, 
or the  condition of labor as their private property. The capitalist class 
buys labor  power and owns what is produced for sale. Relations of 
production are the  operating economic laws defining the relationship of people 
to 
property in the  process of production. 
 
A modern use of relations of production and productive forces in a writing: 
 
"Society is formed on the basis of the unity of productive forces and  
production relations. Productive relations are the laws defining property and  
the relationship of people to property in the process of production. The  
constant, spontaneous development of the productive forces eventually disrupts  
this unity An epoch of social revolution begins to creates new relations of 
 production that reflect the level of, and are compatible with, the newly  
developed productive forces." 
 
Means of production: 
 
Means of production are the non-human resources required for the production 
 of goods. These means include land, raw materials, tools, machinery,  
energy  source, money/capital and embody the technology shape and character  of 
these productive forces. Means of production is a concept of the non-human  
physical  things outside of the human. 
 
Productive forces are means of production plus the human.(see productive  
forces) 
 
Producti

Re: [Marxism-Thaxis] Ralph: Class antagonism ... the dialectic (OK Ralph) .

[Ralph Dumain]

Quickly.

The first edition of A Dictionary of Marxist 
thought ed. by T. B. Bottomore is partially accessible via Google books.

http://books.google.com/books?id=q4QwNP_K1pYC&printsec=frontcover&dq=dictionary+of+marxist+thought&cd=1#v=onepage&q=dialectic&f=false

These entries can be viewed in full:

dialectical materialism (Roy Edgley): p. 142-3
dialectics (Roy Bhaskar): 143-150
dialectics of nature (Robert M. Young): 150-151

I haven't read this stuff in a long time. This is 
far more professional than the usual garbage, but 
I won't vouch for it being definitive. Curiously, 
I never see this topic covered comprehensively and comprehensibly.


At 10:55 AM 3/20/2010, Ralph Dumain wrote:
>Old stuff:
> *
>"How
>to Think" (Sojourner Truth Organization)
> *
>How
>to Study: A Guide for
>Students
>(Jefferson School of Social Science)
>See also my Marxism web guide:
>
>Marx and Marxism Web Guide
>
>Note that I have some old crap as well as more
>technically sophisticated stuff. For example, I
>have one volume of the Cornforth trilogy. I'm
>going to have someone digitize the other two
>volumes because others have been nagging me for
>them. But I strongly dislike all the old
>diamat/histomat textbooks. They're awful. But
>anyone interested in this kind of stuff can find
>some of it on my web site as well as on other Marxist web sites.
>
>I am going to be late, so I must sign off now.
>
>At 10:47 AM 3/20/2010, Ralph Dumain wrote:
> >In a hurry, as I must meet with someone soon. In
> >order to process this paragraph I had to copy it
> >into a Word file and break it up into paragraphs.
> >Printing it out, will look it over with care later.
> >
> >Will work on "dialectical materialism"--needs a
> >complete overhaul, keeping in mind this is not for an academic audience.
> >
> >Check google books--I don't think you will get
> >much of Bottomore there, but maybe some snippets or an article.
> >
> >I will check my web site: I have some old
> >pedagogical materials there, of historical if not current value.
> >
> >Dictionary should seek to explain, varying points
> >of view if necessary, not preach.
> >
> >Marxists Internet Archive has some pedagogical
> >introductions, from Trot standpoint, which is a
> >derivation of Marxist-Leninism, but I don't like their approach.
> >
> >Various people from various tendencies have been
> >thinking recently of how to popularize their
> >ideas, for example, on the web. So a common problem is being recognized.
> >
> >More later .
> >
> >At 09:03 AM 3/20/2010, waistli...@aol.com wrote:
> > >I have not looked at Bottomore's dictionary
> > >since giving it away in 2004. I will run to the
> > >bookstore and locate a copy and look at it.
> > >Anyone that  publishes a Marxist glossary enters
> > >into extreme controversy with every
> > >single  segment of the Marxist current. The most
> > >difficult aspect of the project is  staying on
> > >focus. The focus is a real audience and creating
> > >an organizing tool  that is educational. There
> > >are comrades better equipped for many reasons to
> > >take  the lead on this project and all have
> > >refused. The reason is a desire to produce  a
> > >glossary that sounds like how the American
> > >proletariat think things out in  real time. For
> > >instance the American proletariat does not react
> > >to the word  “mediate” or
> > >“interpenetration.”  Trade Unions mediate
> > >relations between  their members and their
> > >employers. Trade Unions were initially organized
> > >to  protect the wages and conditions of labor
> > >from pressure of their members  employers for
> > >profits. Because of the lost ground of union
> > >over the past 30  years “mediate” becomes a
> > >concept meaning union enhance wages and
> > >this  experience has not been true for almost
> > >twenty years.  The need for the glossary arose
> > >in the course of holding classes
> > >-  educationals, with first a group of young
> > >people and recruiting a few older -  retired
> > >workers, pushed into action over health care.
> > >Let me give a real time  example of the
> > >conceptual problem of the American mind. Here is
> > >the agreed upon  basic description of
> > >dialectical materialism: Dialectal materialism:
> > >Dialectal materialism is an approach and method
> > >to the study of a real  world in constant
> > >change. A materialist approach begin with the
> > >real material  world. The world is knowable and
> > >our knowledge of its laws develops -
> > >evolves,  from a lower to a higher level.
> > >Society contains laws of development
> > >moving  society from a lower to a higher level.
> > >Change in society is based on  development of
> > >the productive forces and social relations of
> > >production. The constant changes a

Re: [Marxism-Thaxis] Ralph: Class antagonism ... the dialectic (OK Ralph) .

[Ralph Dumain]

Old stuff:
* 
"How 
to Think" (Sojourner Truth Organization)
* 
How 
to Study: A Guide for 
Students 
(Jefferson School of Social Science)
See also my Marxism web guide:

Marx and Marxism Web Guide

Note that I have some old crap as well as more 
technically sophisticated stuff. For example, I 
have one volume of the Cornforth trilogy. I'm 
going to have someone digitize the other two 
volumes because others have been nagging me for 
them. But I strongly dislike all the old 
diamat/histomat textbooks. They're awful. But 
anyone interested in this kind of stuff can find 
some of it on my web site as well as on other Marxist web sites.

I am going to be late, so I must sign off now.

At 10:47 AM 3/20/2010, Ralph Dumain wrote:
>In a hurry, as I must meet with someone soon. In
>order to process this paragraph I had to copy it
>into a Word file and break it up into paragraphs.
>Printing it out, will look it over with care later.
>
>Will work on "dialectical materialism"--needs a
>complete overhaul, keeping in mind this is not for an academic audience.
>
>Check google books--I don't think you will get
>much of Bottomore there, but maybe some snippets or an article.
>
>I will check my web site: I have some old
>pedagogical materials there, of historical if not current value.
>
>Dictionary should seek to explain, varying points
>of view if necessary, not preach.
>
>Marxists Internet Archive has some pedagogical
>introductions, from Trot standpoint, which is a
>derivation of Marxist-Leninism, but I don't like their approach.
>
>Various people from various tendencies have been
>thinking recently of how to popularize their
>ideas, for example, on the web. So a common problem is being recognized.
>
>More later .
>
>At 09:03 AM 3/20/2010, waistli...@aol.com wrote:
> >I have not looked at Bottomore's dictionary
> >since giving it away in 2004. I will run to the
> >bookstore and locate a copy and look at it.
> >Anyone that  publishes a Marxist glossary enters
> >into extreme controversy with every
> >single  segment of the Marxist current. The most
> >difficult aspect of the project is  staying on
> >focus. The focus is a real audience and creating
> >an organizing tool  that is educational. There
> >are comrades better equipped for many reasons to
> >take  the lead on this project and all have
> >refused. The reason is a desire to produce  a
> >glossary that sounds like how the American
> >proletariat think things out in  real time. For
> >instance the American proletariat does not react
> >to the word  “mediate” or
> >“interpenetration.”  Trade Unions mediate
> >relations between  their members and their
> >employers. Trade Unions were initially organized
> >to  protect the wages and conditions of labor
> >from pressure of their members  employers for
> >profits. Because of the lost ground of union
> >over the past 30  years “mediate” becomes a
> >concept meaning union enhance wages and
> >this  experience has not been true for almost
> >twenty years.  The need for the glossary arose
> >in the course of holding classes
> >-  educationals, with first a group of young
> >people and recruiting a few older -  retired
> >workers, pushed into action over health care.
> >Let me give a real time  example of the
> >conceptual problem of the American mind. Here is
> >the agreed upon  basic description of
> >dialectical materialism: Dialectal materialism:
> >Dialectal materialism is an approach and method
> >to the study of a real  world in constant
> >change. A materialist approach begin with the
> >real material  world. The world is knowable and
> >our knowledge of its laws develops -
> >evolves,  from a lower to a higher level.
> >Society contains laws of development
> >moving  society from a lower to a higher level.
> >Change in society is based on  development of
> >the productive forces and social relations of
> >production. The constant changes and interaction
> >between productive forces and social
> >relations  prevents us from knowing everything
> >at any particular moment. But that is no  excuse
> >for not accepting and learning about what is
> >real. On the contrary, it  inspires a serious
> >Marxist to constantly study. The materialist
> >approach is  combined with the dialectical
> >method, treating all phenomena in nature
> >and  society as dialectical. The basic laws of
> >materialist dialectics are: This had to be
> >rewritten The reaction to the term dialectical
> >materialism  was fascinating and mind boggling.
> >Everyone would demand to know its meaning
> >and  treated the term with hostility. We
> >reversed the words and all the
> >hostile  reactions disappeared. The second line
> >was changed and the terms “real
> >material  world” was reduced to “material
> >world.

Re: [Marxism-Thaxis] Ralph: Class antagonism ... the dialectic (OK Ralph) .

[Ralph Dumain]

In a hurry, as I must meet with someone soon. In 
order to process this paragraph I had to copy it 
into a Word file and break it up into paragraphs. 
Printing it out, will look it over with care later.

Will work on "dialectical materialism"--needs a 
complete overhaul, keeping in mind this is not for an academic audience.

Check google books--I don't think you will get 
much of Bottomore there, but maybe some snippets or an article.

I will check my web site: I have some old 
pedagogical materials there, of historical if not current value.

Dictionary should seek to explain, varying points 
of view if necessary, not preach.

Marxists Internet Archive has some pedagogical 
introductions, from Trot standpoint, which is a 
derivation of Marxist-Leninism, but I don't like their approach.

Various people from various tendencies have been 
thinking recently of how to popularize their 
ideas, for example, on the web. So a common problem is being recognized.

More later .

At 09:03 AM 3/20/2010, waistli...@aol.com wrote:
>I have not looked at Bottomore's dictionary 
>since giving it away in 2004. I will run to the 
>bookstore and locate a copy and look at it. 
>Anyone that  publishes a Marxist glossary enters 
>into extreme controversy with every 
>single  segment of the Marxist current. The most 
>difficult aspect of the project is  staying on 
>focus. The focus is a real audience and creating 
>an organizing tool  that is educational. There 
>are comrades better equipped for many reasons to 
>take  the lead on this project and all have 
>refused. The reason is a desire to produce  a 
>glossary that sounds like how the American 
>proletariat think things out in  real time. For 
>instance the American proletariat does not react 
>to the word  “mediate” or 
>“interpenetration.”  Trade Unions mediate 
>relations between  their members and their 
>employers. Trade Unions were initially organized 
>to  protect the wages and conditions of labor 
>from pressure of their members  employers for 
>profits. Because of the lost ground of union 
>over the past 30  years “mediate” becomes a 
>concept meaning union enhance wages and 
>this  experience has not been true for almost 
>twenty years.  The need for the glossary arose 
>in the course of holding classes 
>-  educationals, with first a group of young 
>people and recruiting a few older -  retired 
>workers, pushed into action over health care. 
>Let me give a real time  example of the 
>conceptual problem of the American mind. Here is 
>the agreed upon  basic description of 
>dialectical materialism: Dialectal materialism: 
>Dialectal materialism is an approach and method 
>to the study of a real  world in constant 
>change. A materialist approach begin with the 
>real material  world. The world is knowable and 
>our knowledge of its laws develops - 
>evolves,  from a lower to a higher level. 
>Society contains laws of development 
>moving  society from a lower to a higher level. 
>Change in society is based on  development of 
>the productive forces and social relations of 
>production. The constant changes and interaction 
>between productive forces and social 
>relations  prevents us from knowing everything 
>at any particular moment. But that is no  excuse 
>for not accepting and learning about what is 
>real. On the contrary, it  inspires a serious 
>Marxist to constantly study. The materialist 
>approach is  combined with the dialectical 
>method, treating all phenomena in nature 
>and  society as dialectical. The basic laws of 
>materialist dialectics are: This had to be 
>rewritten The reaction to the term dialectical 
>materialism  was fascinating and mind boggling. 
>Everyone would demand to know its meaning 
>and  treated the term with hostility. We 
>reversed the words and all the 
>hostile  reactions disappeared. The second line 
>was changed and the terms “real 
>material  world” was reduced to “material 
>world.” The reason is that people reacted 
>to  real material world with the ideology 
>“what is real to you might not be real 
>to  me,” meaning experience. Ralph, I was 
>fucked up because “ real world” was 
>meant  to deliver a concept of a world existing 
>outside the individual human body, mind  and 
>sense perception. People already understand the 
>world is real, but  experienced individually. 
>Soon as the formulation was changed a different 
>the  concept of dialectical materialism was 
>better understood. Here is the rewrite: 
>Dialectal materialism: (materialist dialectics) 
>Materialist dialectics is an approach and method 
>to the study of a real  world in constant 
>change. A materialist approach begin with the 
>material world.  The world is knowable and our 
>knowledge of its laws grows from a lower to 
>a  higher level. Society is knowable, containing 
>economic laws moving society from  a lower to a 
>higher level. Change in society is based on 
>development of the  productive forces. Its 
>constant cha

Re: [Marxism-Thaxis] Ralph: Class antagonism ... the dialectic (OK Ralph) .

[Waistline2]

I have not looked at Bottomore's dictionary since giving it away in 2004. I 
 will run to the bookstore and locate a copy and look at it. Anyone that  
publishes a Marxist glossary enters into extreme controversy with every 
single  segment of the Marxist current. The most difficult aspect of the 
project 
is  staying on focus. The focus is a real audience and creating an 
organizing tool  that is educational. There are comrades better equipped for 
many 
reasons to take  the lead on this project and all have refused. The reason is a 
desire to produce  a glossary that sounds like how the American proletariat 
think things out in  real time. For instance the American proletariat does 
not react to the word  “mediate” or “interpenetration.”  Trade Unions 
mediate relations between  their members and their employers. Trade Unions were 
initially organized to  protect the wages and conditions of labor from 
pressure of their members  employers for profits. Because of the lost ground of 
union over the past 30  years “mediate” becomes a concept meaning union 
enhance wages and this  experience has not been true for almost twenty years.  
 
The need for the glossary arose in the course of holding classes -  
educationals, with first a group of young people and recruiting a few older -  
retired workers, pushed into action over health care. Let me give a real time  
example of the conceptual problem of the American mind. Here is the agreed 
upon  basic description of dialectical materialism: 
 

Dialectal materialism: 
 
Dialectal materialism is an approach and method to the study of a real  
world in constant change. A materialist approach begin with the real material  
world. The world is knowable and our knowledge of its laws develops - 
evolves,  from a lower to a higher level. Society contains laws of development 
moving  society from a lower to a higher level. Change in society is based on  
development of the productive forces and social relations of production. The 
 constant changes and interaction between productive forces and social 
relations  prevents us from knowing everything at any particular moment. But 
that is no  excuse for not accepting and learning about what is real. On the 
contrary, it  inspires a serious Marxist to constantly study. The materialist 
approach is  combined with the dialectical method, treating all phenomena in 
nature and  society as dialectical. The basic laws of materialist 
dialectics are: 
 
This had to be rewritten The reaction to the term dialectical materialism  
was fascinating and mind boggling. Everyone would demand to know its meaning 
and  treated the term with hostility. We reversed the words and all the 
hostile  reactions disappeared. The second line was changed and the terms “real 
material  world” was reduced to “material world.” The reason is that 
people reacted to  real material world with the ideology “what is real to you 
might not be real to  me,” meaning experience. Ralph, I was fucked up because “
real world” was meant  to deliver a concept of a world existing outside the 
individual human body, mind  and sense perception. People already 
understand the world is real, but  experienced individually. Soon as the 
formulation 
was changed a different the  concept of dialectical materialism was better 
understood. 
 
Here is the rewrite: 
 
Dialectal materialism: (materialist dialectics) 
 
Materialist dialectics is an approach and method to the study of a real  
world in constant change. A materialist approach begin with the material 
world.  The world is knowable and our knowledge of its laws grows from a lower 
to 
a  higher level. Society is knowable, containing economic laws moving 
society from  a lower to a higher level. Change in society is based on 
development of the  productive forces. Its constant change prevents us from 
knowing 
everything at  any particular moment. But that is no excuse for not accepting 
and learning  about what is real. On the contrary, it inspires a serious 
Marxist to constantly  study. The materialist approach is combined with the 
dialectical method,  treating all things in nature and society as dialectical. 
The basic laws of  materialist dialectics are: 
 
OK
 
Every understood materialist dialectics in a common way. No one understood  
what it meant but there was a common reaction seeking clarification. Then 
we had  to create a clear picture of the difference between democracy and 
political  liberty. You say “political liberty” and the white proletarians 
react positively  but not the blacks and browns. Blacks and browns react to the 
word democracy  with the identical emotional intensity as the white 
proletarians. 
 
It was like shit. A Marxist glossary cannot be a small Marxist dictionary  
of terms but must be a historical narrative of the American ideology and  
experience viewed through a Marxist lens. “Marxist lens” produced a different 
 reaction from “Marxist standpoint” of “Marxist point of view.

Re: [Marxism-Thaxis] Ralph: Class antagonism ... the dialectic (OK Ralph) .

[Ralph Dumain]

I think we should all discuss this publicly, 
pooling our knowledge and abilities. I doubt I 
have a unique ability lacking in others here. But 
you are most welcome to send me a copy of the 
whole text and I'll give whatever useful feedback I can.

Have you found the first or second edition of 
Bottomore's Dictionary of Marxist Thought useful 
for some of your source material?

At 09:23 AM 3/19/2010, waistli...@aol.com wrote:
>Comrade Ralph: A new Marxist glossary is being 
>prepared. The last Marxist Glossary  receiving 
>large distribution in America was L. Harry 
>Gould’s 1943 "Glossary of  Marxist Terms." A 
>larger second edition was published in 1946 
>called "Marxist  Glossary" and reprinted in the 
>1970’s by "Proletarian Publishers." Us. Things 
>are heating up and small circles are forming 
>everywhere. Most of the younger people and older 
>workers are 100% unfamiliar with Marxism or any 
>Marxist  concepts. A new glossary is needed. I 
>vowed to do such a glossary ten years ago  in a 
>discussion on Marxism list. The problem was 
>being unable to find an  audience. Since Obama's 
>election things have heated up dramatically and 
>the  material from ten years ago, and most 
>certainly that of the old Soviet era is  totally 
>inadequate. I have taken the lead on writing a 
>Marxist glossary but it is part of a  collective 
>effort amongst a core of comrades. However an 
>"outside  view" is  needed. By this I mean 
>outside our meetings in Detroit. A fundamental 
>draft will be prepared by the March 30, 2010 
>deadline. I  would love to send you the entire 
>glossary no later than March 30, and or  discuss 
>terms on line in the open. I do wish to send you 
>the entire glossary off line through. Why? 
>Because of your uncompromising critical and 
>informed point of  view. Ralph we might not find 
>this in our lifetime but I assure you no one  is 
>rolling over or going out like a bunch of 
>mutherfucking  suckers.  Right or wrong (and we 
>already know what are going to be historically 
>in  error) we are dedicated to opening the new 
>era of proletarian onslaught in the  flesh. The 
>bourgeoisie is not going to take everything away 
>from us and we stand  around like simpletons 
>talking about "where are the people." The 
>"people been in  motion" and this is the kind of 
>shit we live for. Victory of death. Proletarian Unite. WL.
___
Marxism-Thaxis mailing list
Marxism-Thaxis@lists.econ.utah.edu
To change your options or unsubscribe go to:
http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/listinfo/marxism-thaxis

[Marxism-Thaxis] Ralph: Class antagonism ... the dialectic (OK Ralph) .

[Waistline2]

Comrade Ralph:
 
A new Marxist glossary is being prepared. The last Marxist Glossary  
receiving large distribution in America was L. Harry Gould’s 1943 "Glossary of  
Marxist Terms." A larger second edition was published in 1946 called "Marxist  
Glossary" and reprinted in the 1970’s by "Proletarian Publishers." Us. 
 
Things are heating up and small circles are forming everywhere. Most of the 
 younger people and older workers are 100% unfamiliar with Marxism or any 
Marxist  concepts. A new glossary is needed. I vowed to do such a glossary 
ten years ago  in a discussion on Marxism list. The problem was being unable 
to find an  audience. Since Obama's election things have heated up 
dramatically and the  material from ten years ago, and most certainly that of 
the old 
Soviet era is  totally inadequate. 
 
I have taken the lead on writing a Marxist glossary but it is part of a  
collective effort amongst a core of comrades. However an "outside  view" is  
needed. By this I mean outside our meetings in Detroit. 
 
A fundamental draft will be prepared by the March 30, 2010 deadline. I  
would love to send you the entire glossary no later than March 30, and or  
discuss terms on line in the open. I do wish to send you the entire glossary 
off 
 line through. Why? Because of your uncompromising critical and informed 
point of  view. 
 
Ralph we might not find this in our lifetime but I assure you no one  is 
rolling over or going out like a bunch of mutherfucking  suckers.  

Right or wrong (and we already know what are going to be historically in  
error) we are dedicated to opening the new era of proletarian onslaught in 
the  flesh. The bourgeoisie is not going to take everything away from us and 
we stand  around like simpletons talking about "where are the people." The 
"people been in  motion" and this is the kind of shit we live for. 
 
Victory of death. 
 
Proletarian Unite. 
 
WL. 
 
 
This email was cleaned by emailStripper, available for free from 
_http://www.papercut.biz/emailStripper.htm_ 
(http://www.papercut.biz/emailStripper.htm) 
___
Marxism-Thaxis mailing list
Marxism-Thaxis@lists.econ.utah.edu
To change your options or unsubscribe go to:
http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/listinfo/marxism-thaxis