date:20160613

The correct term is magazine.  A clip only holds cartridges, normally outside 
the gun, until they are loaded in a magazine.  A magazine may be integral to a 
gun (like the M-1) or removable (like the M-14 or M-16) and preloaded before 
being inserted into the gun.

> -Original Message-
> From:  Don via Mercedes
> Sent: Monday, June 13, 2016 1:43 PM
> 
> What you really mean is clips that hold large amounts of ammunition... 



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Re: [MBZ] OT: roll out the SOS (same old script)

Classis misdirection.  Are we really that stupid?

> -Original Message-
> From:  Curley McLain via Mercedes
> Sent: Sunday, June 12, 2016 4:55 PM
> 
> Now that the cult that can't be mentioned has again created carnage under
> the watch of the BO who works to protect the cult,  the media is trotting
out
> the SOS.  "Lets burn up the second amendment, shut down mfgr and sales of
> anything that could be used as a wea pon, and run our jackboots over the
> rights of citizens."  That means no scisissors, knives, letter openers,
> screwdrivers, shovels, rakes, wrenches, bows, axes, corn knives and their
> international equivalent, sticks, rocks, 2x4s, the list goes on and on.
...


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Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

For those that don't know, the media invented the term assault weapon; that
term has no actual meaning.  On the other hand, an assault rifle is an
automatic rifle (machine gun) that fires a reduced power cartridge.  For all
practical purposes, machine guns are illegal in the US and have been for a
long time.  A reduced power cartridge has less power than a main battle
rifle (like M-1 Garand) or hunting rifle but more power than a .22 long
rifle cartridge.




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Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

>From what I can see, there are very few Americans, currently,  who feel a duty 
>to defend their country.  There are, however, certain people that run toward 
>the sound of gunfire; they are called Marines.

> -Original Message-
> From: Of G Mann via Mercedes
> Sent: Monday, June 13, 2016 5:33 PM
> 
> The guiding principle behind that system is that Switzerland is a small
> country, and every Citizen has a duty to defend it.
> 


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Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

As a matter of fact, the NRA supported the current background check system, 
much to the dismay of many members.

> -Original Message-
> From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of
> Curt Raymond via Mercedes
> Sent: Monday, June 13, 2016 1:41 PM
> To: Mercedes Discussion List 
> Cc: Curt Raymond 
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question
> 
> Like George Carlin I do this thing called "Thinking for myself" which is a
> radical idea for most of the world.
> This tends to make me a moderate. I disagree with both sides of the "political
> equation" pretty much equally.
> So no I'm not an NRA radical, in fact I think the NRA does itself a 
> disservice in
> these situations by digging in its heels and refusing any gun control 
> measures.
> Their refusal to sit at the table at all is dumb. They should be working 
> across
> the aisle on background checks, it'd be something easy that would show them
> as good people working WITH the antis. Then when the control crowd
> proposes something wacky they'd be able to say "Hey, we've been working
> with you!" as it is the other side gets to say "You just fight us, clearly you
> want people to die."
> *sigh*
> In the end the control crowd is wrong, banning high capacity mags wouldn't
> have made a difference in this case, the guy had plenty of time to reload
> repeatedly anyway.
> Anyway, remember you're not anti-gun you're pro-stormtrooper, those are
> they people who will be charged with taking guns away from the legal gun
> owners...
> -Curt
> 
>   From: Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes 
>  To: Mercedes Discussion List 
> Cc: Andrew Strasfogel 
>  Sent: Monday, June 13, 2016 1:25 PM
>  Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question
> 
> Wow, so many of you have been radicalized by the NRA.  I'm impressed.
> 
> On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 1:22 PM, Joel Cairo via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
> > How'd that work in Europe?  How's that work in the south side of Chicago?
> >
> > --JC
> >
> >
> > On 6/13/16 1:18 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote:
> >
> >> I guess I meant "currently legal guns that have the capability to
> >> kill lots of people quickly"
> >>
> >> On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 1:11 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes <
> >> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> They already are, fully automatic weapons have been banned for years.
> >>> Did you perhaps mean "Scary black guns" instead?
> >>> -Curt
> >>>
> >>>From: Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes 
> >>>  To: Mercedes Discussion List 
> >>> Cc: Andrew Strasfogel ; Meade Dillon <
> >>>dillonm...@gmail.com>
> >>>  Sent: Monday, June 13, 2016 1:05 PM
> >>>  Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question
> >>>
> >>> Or maybe banning the sale of assault weapons?
> >>>
> >>> On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 12:22 PM, Meade Dillon via Mercedes <
> >>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Well, maybe this is kind of like the simple rules for flying (stay
> >>> in the
>  middle of the air, avoid the boundaries).  Maybe staying the heck
>  away
> 
> >>> from
> >>>
>  large gatherings in gun-free zones is the key...
> 
>  -
>  Max
>  Charleston SC
> 
>  On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 11:21 AM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <
>  mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
>  The obvious solution would have been a metal detector at the
>  entrance
> >
>  to
> >>>
>  the club.  Or is that forbidden under FL law?
> >
> >
> > ___
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

Disarming the victims is not the answer.  Anyone who believes laws can disarm 
the criminals and terrorists (especially laws that are not enforced) must be a 
product of our alleged education system.


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Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

Quite a powerful video, founded on the logic that the Swiss Citizen has a
duty to both self defense, and defense of his / her country..

Unfortunately, a logic that is somehow missing in a portion of our PC
liberal Citizenship. It is our individual "Fair Share" required to maintain
an orderly society.. and keep it safe from enemies, both foreign and
domestic.

Current estimates are that of a population of 325,000,000 American
Citizens, those Citizens privately own 480,000,000 guns, and an estimated
86 Billion rounds of ammunition.

Based on those estimates, it suggests that it's not a good idea to piss off
American Citizens.. That would represent the largest army in the world,
which could be quickly raised to action.

The Revolutionary War which founded America was fought with privately owned
weapons.. it's an enduring principle preserved by the Second Amendment
Right. As a Citizen.. you get to personally choose to arm yourself.. or
not.. however, you do not get to choose for someone else.


Virus-free

<#DDB4FAA8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>

On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 7:51 PM, Scott Ritchey via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Here's a video on "Swiss gun culture":
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B31SUm0nrwc
>
> I guess it depends on whether you view your population is mainly citizens
> or
> serfs.
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of G
> > Mann via Mercedes
> > Sent: Monday, June 13, 2016 6:49 PM
> > To: Mercedes Discussion List 
> > Cc: G Mann 
> > Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question
> >
> > I'm trained and current.. aren't you?
> >
> >
> >  > email?utm_medium=email_source=link_campaign=sig-
> > email_content=webmail_term=oa-2322-b>
> > Virus-free
> >  > email?utm_medium=email_source=link_campaign=sig-
> > email_content=webmail_term=oa-2322-b>
> > <#DDB4FAA8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
> >
> > On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 3:42 PM, Randy Bennell via Mercedes <
> > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> > > On 13/06/2016 4:32 PM, G Mann via Mercedes wrote:
> > >
> > >> Interesting thing about the Swiss and firearms.. There is a weapon in
> > >> each household of military grade capable of full automatic fire, and
> > >> it is also equipped with a proscribed issue of ammunition. What is
> > >> not brought out however, is that every Citizen has to re-qualify, at
> > >> a government run range, on a proscribed schedule his proficiency with
> > >> that weapon, and account for every round of ammunition in his
> > >> possession for it. He also received training prior to issue of the
> weapon.
> > >>
> > >> The guiding principle behind that system is that Switzerland is a
> > >> small country, and every Citizen has a duty to defend it.
> > >>
> > >> Ohh... much like the Second Amendment in the USA.. in principle,
> > >> isn't it..
> > >> Citizen Soldier...
> > >>
> > >>
> > > And therein lies one of the issues. The constitutional right to bear
> > > arms related to a strong militia.
> > > It really does not fit the current reality of all sorts of regular
> > > folks with no training, military or otherwise, having all sorts of
> > > guns and ammo to do whatever they wish with.
> > > If the US was like Switzerland in terms of the training and control,
> > > you likely would not have the issues that you do.
> > >
> > >
> > > RB
> > >
> > > ___
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[MBZ] Car Porn.. Think you have a hard drive to work?

http://www.tvraaca.org/oilfielddodge1920i.htm


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Re: [MBZ] W210 Ignition

2016-06-13 Thread Bob Rentfro via Mercedes

Well that sounds expensive
On Jun 13, 2016 8:50 PM, "Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes" <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Drive authorization system.  Computers have to be replaced and recoded by
> the dealer.
>
> On 6/13/2016 10:47 PM, Bob Rentfro via Mercedes wrote:
>
>> DAS? Please do some 'splainin' cause, remember, I've never messed with
>> anything newer than a W123.
>>
>> Bob R
>> On Jun 13, 2016 8:45 PM, "Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes" <
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>>
>> The DAS is going bad
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Jun 13, 2016, at 9:56 PM, Bob Rentfro via Mercedes <

>>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>>>
 On my 98 E300, once in a while, after the glow light goes out and I turn
 the fob, no think happens. I then reperform the sequence and she starts.
 Tonight it balked twice before starting.
 How to these fob things fail?

 Bob R
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Re: [MBZ] W210 Ignition

Drive authorization system.  Computers have to be replaced and recoded 
by the dealer.


On 6/13/2016 10:47 PM, Bob Rentfro via Mercedes wrote:

DAS? Please do some 'splainin' cause, remember, I've never messed with
anything newer than a W123.

Bob R
On Jun 13, 2016 8:45 PM, "Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes" <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:


The DAS is going bad

Sent from my iPhone


On Jun 13, 2016, at 9:56 PM, Bob Rentfro via Mercedes <

mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

On my 98 E300, once in a while, after the glow light goes out and I turn
the fob, no think happens. I then reperform the sequence and she starts.
Tonight it balked twice before starting.
How to these fob things fail?

Bob R
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Re: [MBZ] OM 617 question

He's right.

On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 11:44 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> No, 82
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Jun 13, 2016, at 8:48 PM, Dwight Giles via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> > Was 81 first year for  turbo in 300CD?
> > THX
> >
> > Dwight Giles Jr.
> > 1982 300CD
> > 1990 300D
> > Wickford RI
> > ___
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Re: [MBZ] W210 Ignition

2016-06-13 Thread Bob Rentfro via Mercedes

DAS? Please do some 'splainin' cause, remember, I've never messed with
anything newer than a W123.

Bob R
On Jun 13, 2016 8:45 PM, "Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes" <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> The DAS is going bad
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Jun 13, 2016, at 9:56 PM, Bob Rentfro via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> > On my 98 E300, once in a while, after the glow light goes out and I turn
> > the fob, no think happens. I then reperform the sequence and she starts.
> > Tonight it balked twice before starting.
> > How to these fob things fail?
> >
> > Bob R
> > ___
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Re: [MBZ] W210 Ignition

The DAS is going bad

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 13, 2016, at 9:56 PM, Bob Rentfro via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> On my 98 E300, once in a while, after the glow light goes out and I turn
> the fob, no think happens. I then reperform the sequence and she starts.
> Tonight it balked twice before starting.
> How to these fob things fail?
> 
> Bob R
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Re: [MBZ] OM 617 question

No, 82

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 13, 2016, at 8:48 PM, Dwight Giles via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Was 81 first year for  turbo in 300CD?
> THX
> 
> Dwight Giles Jr.
> 1982 300CD
> 1990 300D
> Wickford RI
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Re: [MBZ] OM 617 question

In 81 the only turbos were the 300TD and SD. D and CD were not turbo until 82.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 13, 2016, at 10:38 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> 81 MY turbodiesels - 300D, 300CD, 300TD.  All prior MY are nonturbo.
> 
> On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 10:02 PM, Dwight Giles via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
>> Yes that sounds right as I know TD was before CD.
>> 
>> Dwight Giles Jr.
>> 1982 300CD
>> 1990 300D
>> Wickford RI
>> On Jun 13, 2016 9:52 PM, "Mitch Haley via Mercedes" > wrote:
>> 
>>> I believe it was always for 300SD,  1981 for 300TD, and 1982 for 300D and
>>> CD.
>>> 
>>> On June 13, 2016 at 9:48 PM Dwight Giles via Mercedes <
>>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Was 81 first year for turbo in 300CD?
>>> 
>>> 
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[MBZ] R320 bad wheel bearings

I was getting prepared to replace the front wheel bearings on my r320 as they 
are very loud. Yesterday I installed Michelins on it replacing the Bridgestones 
that were on it. I now see it does not need wheel bearings, the old tires were 
so loud they sounded just like bad wheel bearings. 

Sent from my iPhone

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Re: [MBZ] OM 617 question

81 MY turbodiesels - 300D, 300CD, 300TD.  All prior MY are nonturbo.

On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 10:02 PM, Dwight Giles via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Yes that sounds right as I know TD was before CD.
>
> Dwight Giles Jr.
> 1982 300CD
> 1990 300D
> Wickford RI
> On Jun 13, 2016 9:52 PM, "Mitch Haley via Mercedes"  >
> wrote:
>
> > I believe it was always for 300SD,  1981 for 300TD, and 1982 for 300D and
> > CD.
> >
> > On June 13, 2016 at 9:48 PM Dwight Giles via Mercedes <
> > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Was 81 first year for turbo in 300CD?
> >
> >
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Re: [MBZ] Fw: 1985 Mercedes 300CD Turbo Diesel (Keyword 300D 300SD)

Car looked great from 50' but the seller is PAINFULLY honest...

On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 8:33 PM, Fred Moir via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Not, etc.
>
>
> Fred Moir.
> Lynn MA.
> Diesel preferred.
>
>
> 
> From: nore...@craigslist.org 
> Sent: 14 June 2016 00:21
> To: fredh.s...@hotmail.com
> Subject: 1985 Mercedes 300CD Turbo Diesel (Keyword 300D 300SD)
>
>
> fred.s...@verizon.net forwarded you this from craigslist:
>
> 
> 1985 Mercedes 300CD Turbo Diesel (Keyword 300D 300SD)
>
> http://boston.craigslist.org/gbs/cto/5619748610.html
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Re: [MBZ] Yellow-legged Frog Survey


Fantastic!Waytago!


archer75--- via Mercedes 
June 13, 2016 at 9:54 PMvia Postbox 


http://www.theburningplatform.com/2016/06/11/oregon-citizen-is-a-genius/

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[MBZ] W210 Ignition

2016-06-13 Thread Bob Rentfro via Mercedes

On my 98 E300, once in a while, after the glow light goes out and I turn
the fob, no think happens. I then reperform the sequence and she starts.
Tonight it balked twice before starting.
How to these fob things fail?

Bob R
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[MBZ] Yellow-legged Frog Survey

2016-06-13 Thread archer75--- via Mercedes

http://www.theburningplatform.com/2016/06/11/oregon-citizen-is-a-genius/

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Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

Here's a video on "Swiss gun culture": 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B31SUm0nrwc

I guess it depends on whether you view your population is mainly citizens or
serfs.

> -Original Message-
> From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of G
> Mann via Mercedes
> Sent: Monday, June 13, 2016 6:49 PM
> To: Mercedes Discussion List 
> Cc: G Mann 
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question
> 
> I'm trained and current.. aren't you?
> 
> 
>  email?utm_medium=email_source=link_campaign=sig-
> email_content=webmail_term=oa-2322-b>
> Virus-free
>  email?utm_medium=email_source=link_campaign=sig-
> email_content=webmail_term=oa-2322-b>
> <#DDB4FAA8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
> 
> On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 3:42 PM, Randy Bennell via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
> > On 13/06/2016 4:32 PM, G Mann via Mercedes wrote:
> >
> >> Interesting thing about the Swiss and firearms.. There is a weapon in
> >> each household of military grade capable of full automatic fire, and
> >> it is also equipped with a proscribed issue of ammunition. What is
> >> not brought out however, is that every Citizen has to re-qualify, at
> >> a government run range, on a proscribed schedule his proficiency with
> >> that weapon, and account for every round of ammunition in his
> >> possession for it. He also received training prior to issue of the
weapon.
> >>
> >> The guiding principle behind that system is that Switzerland is a
> >> small country, and every Citizen has a duty to defend it.
> >>
> >> Ohh... much like the Second Amendment in the USA.. in principle,
> >> isn't it..
> >> Citizen Soldier...
> >>
> >>
> > And therein lies one of the issues. The constitutional right to bear
> > arms related to a strong militia.
> > It really does not fit the current reality of all sorts of regular
> > folks with no training, military or otherwise, having all sorts of
> > guns and ammo to do whatever they wish with.
> > If the US was like Switzerland in terms of the training and control,
> > you likely would not have the issues that you do.
> >
> >
> > RB
> >
> > ___
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

I just had a couple of Citra Ass Down beers this evening.  They were 
very good.


To answer the question, it is the postal service, so anything useful is 
illegal in theory, but in practice who will know.


--JC


On 6/13/16 9:23 PM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes wrote:



On June 13, 2016 at 2:26 PM Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes 
 wrote:



Without me, what would you all talk about? Someone owes me a b**r.


Is it legal (and physically feasible) to mail a bottle?

Liberty Brewing's American IPA perhaps?

Or maybe some Steamy Windows?


Mitch.



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--
--BB

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Re: [MBZ] OM 617 question

2016-06-13 Thread Dwight Giles via Mercedes

Yes that sounds right as I know TD was before CD.

Dwight Giles Jr.
1982 300CD
1990 300D
Wickford RI
On Jun 13, 2016 9:52 PM, "Mitch Haley via Mercedes" 
wrote:

> I believe it was always for 300SD,  1981 for 300TD, and 1982 for 300D and
> CD.
>
> On June 13, 2016 at 9:48 PM Dwight Giles via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
>
> Was 81 first year for turbo in 300CD?
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] OT: roll out the SOS (same old script)

2016-06-13 Thread Mountain Man via Mercedes

Curley wrote:
> Perhaps,  Just perhaps, we should read and learn from the history of these
> unites states...

That read makes me think Switzerland.  Everyone - carry a gun.  If a
person carries, they know how to use.
mao

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Re: [MBZ] OM 617 question


I believe it was always for 300SD,  1981 for 300TD, and 1982 for 300D and CD. On June 13, 2016 at 9:48 PM Dwight Giles via Mercedes  wrote:Was 81 first year for turbo in 300CD?
 

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[MBZ] OM 617 question

2016-06-13 Thread Dwight Giles via Mercedes

Was 81 first year for  turbo in 300CD?
THX

Dwight Giles Jr.
1982 300CD
1990 300D
Wickford RI
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question


On June 13, 2016 at 6:54 PM Randy Bennell via Mercedes  wrote:But, if you were one of the first officers on the scene, would you have been willing to charge inside to see what was happening?Sounds suicidal.But...but...THEY PUT THEIR LIVES ON THE LINE FOR US EVERY DAY!(or so the brainwashed copsuckers like to tell me as if it's a fact}Mitch.
 

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Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

2016-06-13 Thread Mountain Man via Mercedes

I like the comment that NRA is killing itself.
GOP is killing itself, likewise.  So is right-to-life.
The arguments made for years have are not effective.  Situation
remains the same.
Try a different argument?
Nothing really happens.  We are what we are until the day that we die.
mao

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Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question


On June 13, 2016 at 3:50 PM Randy Bennell via Mercedes  wrote:I normally try to keep out of these threads as I am not in the USA and it does not apply to me but . . .Now that is a frightening scenario.If that were applied, then everyone would be entitled to firearms, no matter how crazy or violent etc. No regulation whatsoever because it is a constitutional right?Yet you are not frightened by the prospect of the same people running around with vodka bottles, matches and gasoline?How about motor vehicles and baseball bats?Basically, if you're not safe with a gun, you're not safe running loose in society. Mitch
 

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Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question


On June 13, 2016 at 2:26 PM Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes  wrote:Without me, what would you all talk about? Someone owes me a b**r.Is it legal (and physically feasible) to mail a bottle?Liberty Brewing's American IPA perhaps?Or maybe some Steamy Windows?Mitch.
 

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Re: [MBZ] 1990 300D - SOLD!

2016-06-13 Thread Max Dillon via Mercedes

That looks like an anti-theft VIN sticker, that identifies various major parts 
with the VIN so if the car were parted out, police have an easier time 
determining which car the part came from.
-- 
Max Dillon
Charleston SC
'87 300TD
'95 E300

On June 13, 2016 5:48:25 PM EDT, Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
 wrote:
>Of course it didn’t.
>
>https://www.dropbox.com/s/ewgiio36xzm9uc6/IMG_1148.jpg?dl=0
>
>

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Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question


On June 13, 2016 at 1:55 PM Curt Raymond via Mercedes  wrote:So are you complete de-regulation?I'm not a big fan of regulation but I think there are some people who clearly shouldn't have guns. The shooter in Orlando for instance. If the laws currently on the books for background checks had been doing their job he wouldn't have been able to legally buy guns in the first place considering he was a known wife-beating anti-social, pretty much all around not-good-guy.I don't think that instant check infringes on my rights to own a gun in any way. More over supporting it would be a win for the NRA since polls seem to show most people agree with me. Instead the NRA just looks completely obstructionist and their "good guy with a gun" mantra just gives the anti-gun crowd more fodder.As you mention in the case at hand, prior restraint does not prevent violent crime, so why should the NRA or anybody else embrace it as a 'commie sense gun restriction'? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sapz4qVyHGI 

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[MBZ] Fw: 1985 Mercedes 300CD Turbo Diesel (Keyword 300D 300SD)

2016-06-13 Thread Fred Moir via Mercedes

Not, etc.


Fred Moir.
Lynn MA.
Diesel preferred.



From: nore...@craigslist.org 
Sent: 14 June 2016 00:21
To: fredh.s...@hotmail.com
Subject: 1985 Mercedes 300CD Turbo Diesel (Keyword 300D 300SD)


fred.s...@verizon.net forwarded you this from craigslist:


1985 Mercedes 300CD Turbo Diesel (Keyword 300D 300SD)

http://boston.craigslist.org/gbs/cto/5619748610.html
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

Yes, we were not there. The police will only tell us so much and the 
press is unreliable so we will never truly know how it all occurred.


RB

On 13/06/2016 6:01 PM, G Mann via Mercedes wrote:

Only in the movies does the "hero" charge in alone..

Good cop procedure is squad procedure, where overwhelming force is applied
to control the situation.. If you were to observe SWAT training, you would
see this repeated at each session..

There were cell phone calls made by people inside.. thus, assessment of
threat level could have been made with some accuracy.. perhaps it was..

I raise issue with how that was executed by police. Perhaps, based on intel
at the scene.. they did make best decisions possible.. it appears not
But Monday morning quarter backs always make the point, right..

The price of education is never cheap, no matter where you get it.. lessons
were learned.. expensive ones..





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Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

Only in the movies does the "hero" charge in alone..

Good cop procedure is squad procedure, where overwhelming force is applied
to control the situation.. If you were to observe SWAT training, you would
see this repeated at each session..

There were cell phone calls made by people inside.. thus, assessment of
threat level could have been made with some accuracy.. perhaps it was..

I raise issue with how that was executed by police. Perhaps, based on intel
at the scene.. they did make best decisions possible.. it appears not
But Monday morning quarter backs always make the point, right..

The price of education is never cheap, no matter where you get it.. lessons
were learned.. expensive ones..


Virus-free

<#DDB4FAA8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>

On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 3:54 PM, Randy Bennell via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> But, if you were one of the first officers on the scene, would you have
> been willing to charge inside to see what was happening?
> Sounds suicidal.
>
> RB
>
> On 13/06/2016 5:48 PM, G Mann via Mercedes wrote:
>
>> Rule in the military.. Once the first shot is fired, all battle plans go
>> to
>> hell
>>
>> Police train routinely to take down known shooter situations. Government
>> funds, both state and federal are allocated to that training, since 911,
>> and Homeland Security.. 4 hours to bleed to death is a very long time.. if
>> you are the one bleeding..
>>
>> It is why police SWAT units are equipped with level 1 armor with armor
>> plate inserts to take rounds and survive.. as well as other items of
>> superior fire power... sooo..
>>
>> Sorry.. standing outside while people bleed out and more people are killed
>> is "poor police action" ... I choose to take issue with that course of
>> decisions.
>>
>> As well as taking issue that the shooter was on the FBI short list several
>> times before.. Where was Homeland Security, FBI, TSA, and all the other "3
>> letters" ??
>>
>> I want more for my tax dollars than lip service.. and more lip..
>>
>> <
>> https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email_source=link_campaign=sig-email_content=webmail_term=oa-2322-b
>> >
>> Virus-free
>> <
>> https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email_source=link_campaign=sig-email_content=webmail_term=oa-2322-b
>> >
>> <#DDB4FAA8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
>>
>> On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 3:37 PM, Randy Bennell via Mercedes <
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>>
>> On 13/06/2016 3:55 PM, OK Don via Mercedes wrote:
>>>
>>>That is the real issue - are you willing to
 risk your self and your family to keep your rights?


 And that relates to the shooting in the bar in Florida.
>>>
>>> If you were one of the police officers who attended the scene would you
>>> have wanted to charge inside to get the bad guy?
>>>
>>> The lack of information should have made them cautious. Somewhere inside
>>> there is someone killing people. I assume no one knows for sure if it is
>>> one shooter or several.
>>>
>>> The police do not want to get caught shooting innocent by-standers. They
>>> don't want to get shot themselves etc. It is a no-win situation.
>>>
>>> If you have a wife and children at home, you shouldn't want to be a dead
>>> hero. You need to wait while someone  sets up a co-ordinated plan of
>>> attack
>>> that makes it less likely that the officers will be killed or injured
>>> when
>>> the team storms the place and takes out the bad guy(s). Might be bad news
>>> for the folks inside, but it would be foolish to waste trained officers
>>> in
>>> some mad scramble if no one has any clue what is actually happening.
>>>
>>> RB
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ___
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>>
>>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>>
>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>>
>>>
>>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>
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>>
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>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>
>>
>
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

But, if you were one of the first officers on the scene, would you have 
been willing to charge inside to see what was happening?

Sounds suicidal.

RB

On 13/06/2016 5:48 PM, G Mann via Mercedes wrote:

Rule in the military.. Once the first shot is fired, all battle plans go to
hell

Police train routinely to take down known shooter situations. Government
funds, both state and federal are allocated to that training, since 911,
and Homeland Security.. 4 hours to bleed to death is a very long time.. if
you are the one bleeding..

It is why police SWAT units are equipped with level 1 armor with armor
plate inserts to take rounds and survive.. as well as other items of
superior fire power... sooo..

Sorry.. standing outside while people bleed out and more people are killed
is "poor police action" ... I choose to take issue with that course of
decisions.

As well as taking issue that the shooter was on the FBI short list several
times before.. Where was Homeland Security, FBI, TSA, and all the other "3
letters" ??

I want more for my tax dollars than lip service.. and more lip..


Virus-free

<#DDB4FAA8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>

On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 3:37 PM, Randy Bennell via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:


On 13/06/2016 3:55 PM, OK Don via Mercedes wrote:


   That is the real issue - are you willing to
risk your self and your family to keep your rights?



And that relates to the shooting in the bar in Florida.

If you were one of the police officers who attended the scene would you
have wanted to charge inside to get the bad guy?

The lack of information should have made them cautious. Somewhere inside
there is someone killing people. I assume no one knows for sure if it is
one shooter or several.

The police do not want to get caught shooting innocent by-standers. They
don't want to get shot themselves etc. It is a no-win situation.

If you have a wife and children at home, you shouldn't want to be a dead
hero. You need to wait while someone  sets up a co-ordinated plan of attack
that makes it less likely that the officers will be killed or injured when
the team storms the place and takes out the bad guy(s). Might be bad news
for the folks inside, but it would be foolish to waste trained officers in
some mad scramble if no one has any clue what is actually happening.

RB



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Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

2016-06-13 Thread clay via Mercedes

I am wondering just how long it will take Howllywood to come out with a Movie 
of the Week based on this event.  Are the dead Gay folk the heroes, or does 
that fall on the cops?  Will the bad guy have horns and be full Mslim, or 
do they go with slightly creepy nerd?




clay 

2002 s430 - Victor, a Stately & well tailored chap
1974 450sl -  Frosch - Two tone green
1976 300D - Blei Vanst - it looks silvery
1972 220D - Gump - She was green, simple and ran
1995 E300D - Gave her life to save me against a Dame in a SUV
POS 1987 SDL - Beware Nigerian Scammers








On Jun 13, 2016, at 3:48 PM, G Mann via Mercedes wrote:

> Rule in the military.. Once the first shot is fired, all battle plans go to
> hell
> 
> Police train routinely to take down known shooter situations. Government
> funds, both state and federal are allocated to that training, since 911,
> and Homeland Security.. 4 hours to bleed to death is a very long time.. if
> you are the one bleeding..
> 
> It is why police SWAT units are equipped with level 1 armor with armor
> plate inserts to take rounds and survive.. as well as other items of
> superior fire power... sooo..
> 
> Sorry.. standing outside while people bleed out and more people are killed
> is "poor police action" ... I choose to take issue with that course of
> decisions.
> 
> As well as taking issue that the shooter was on the FBI short list several
> times before.. Where was Homeland Security, FBI, TSA, and all the other "3
> letters" ??
> 
> I want more for my tax dollars than lip service.. and more lip..
> 
> 
> Virus-free
> 
> <#DDB4FAA8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
> 
> On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 3:37 PM, Randy Bennell via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
>> On 13/06/2016 3:55 PM, OK Don via Mercedes wrote:
>> 
>>>  That is the real issue - are you willing to
>>> risk your self and your family to keep your rights?
>>> 
>>> 
>> And that relates to the shooting in the bar in Florida.
>> 
>> If you were one of the police officers who attended the scene would you
>> have wanted to charge inside to get the bad guy?
>> 
>> The lack of information should have made them cautious. Somewhere inside
>> there is someone killing people. I assume no one knows for sure if it is
>> one shooter or several.
>> 
>> The police do not want to get caught shooting innocent by-standers. They
>> don't want to get shot themselves etc. It is a no-win situation.
>> 
>> If you have a wife and children at home, you shouldn't want to be a dead
>> hero. You need to wait while someone  sets up a co-ordinated plan of attack
>> that makes it less likely that the officers will be killed or injured when
>> the team storms the place and takes out the bad guy(s). Might be bad news
>> for the folks inside, but it would be foolish to waste trained officers in
>> some mad scramble if no one has any clue what is actually happening.
>> 
>> RB
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

I'm trained and current.. aren't you?



Virus-free

<#DDB4FAA8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>

On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 3:42 PM, Randy Bennell via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> On 13/06/2016 4:32 PM, G Mann via Mercedes wrote:
>
>> Interesting thing about the Swiss and firearms.. There is a weapon in each
>> household of military grade capable of full automatic fire, and it is also
>> equipped with a proscribed issue of ammunition. What is not brought out
>> however, is that every Citizen has to re-qualify, at a government run
>> range, on a proscribed schedule his proficiency with that weapon, and
>> account for every round of ammunition in his possession for it. He also
>> received training prior to issue of the weapon.
>>
>> The guiding principle behind that system is that Switzerland is a small
>> country, and every Citizen has a duty to defend it.
>>
>> Ohh... much like the Second Amendment in the USA.. in principle, isn't
>> it..
>> Citizen Soldier...
>>
>>
> And therein lies one of the issues. The constitutional right to bear arms
> related to a strong militia.
> It really does not fit the current reality of all sorts of regular folks
> with no training, military or otherwise, having all sorts of guns and ammo
> to do whatever they wish with.
> If the US was like Switzerland in terms of the training and control, you
> likely would not have the issues that you do.
>
>
> RB
>
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

Rule in the military.. Once the first shot is fired, all battle plans go to
hell

Police train routinely to take down known shooter situations. Government
funds, both state and federal are allocated to that training, since 911,
and Homeland Security.. 4 hours to bleed to death is a very long time.. if
you are the one bleeding..

It is why police SWAT units are equipped with level 1 armor with armor
plate inserts to take rounds and survive.. as well as other items of
superior fire power... sooo..

Sorry.. standing outside while people bleed out and more people are killed
is "poor police action" ... I choose to take issue with that course of
decisions.

As well as taking issue that the shooter was on the FBI short list several
times before.. Where was Homeland Security, FBI, TSA, and all the other "3
letters" ??

I want more for my tax dollars than lip service.. and more lip..

Virus-free

<#DDB4FAA8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>

On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 3:37 PM, Randy Bennell via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> On 13/06/2016 3:55 PM, OK Don via Mercedes wrote:
>
>>   That is the real issue - are you willing to
>> risk your self and your family to keep your rights?
>>
>>
> And that relates to the shooting in the bar in Florida.
>
> If you were one of the police officers who attended the scene would you
> have wanted to charge inside to get the bad guy?
>
> The lack of information should have made them cautious. Somewhere inside
> there is someone killing people. I assume no one knows for sure if it is
> one shooter or several.
>
> The police do not want to get caught shooting innocent by-standers. They
> don't want to get shot themselves etc. It is a no-win situation.
>
> If you have a wife and children at home, you shouldn't want to be a dead
> hero. You need to wait while someone  sets up a co-ordinated plan of attack
> that makes it less likely that the officers will be killed or injured when
> the team storms the place and takes out the bad guy(s). Might be bad news
> for the folks inside, but it would be foolish to waste trained officers in
> some mad scramble if no one has any clue what is actually happening.
>
> RB
>
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question


On 13/06/2016 4:32 PM, G Mann via Mercedes wrote:

Interesting thing about the Swiss and firearms.. There is a weapon in each
household of military grade capable of full automatic fire, and it is also
equipped with a proscribed issue of ammunition. What is not brought out
however, is that every Citizen has to re-qualify, at a government run
range, on a proscribed schedule his proficiency with that weapon, and
account for every round of ammunition in his possession for it. He also
received training prior to issue of the weapon.

The guiding principle behind that system is that Switzerland is a small
country, and every Citizen has a duty to defend it.

Ohh... much like the Second Amendment in the USA.. in principle, isn't it..
Citizen Soldier...



And therein lies one of the issues. The constitutional right to bear 
arms  related to a strong militia.
It really does not fit the current reality of all sorts of regular folks 
with no training, military or otherwise, having all sorts of guns and 
ammo to do whatever they wish with.
If the US was like Switzerland in terms of the training and control, you 
likely would not have the issues that you do.


RB

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Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question


On 13/06/2016 3:55 PM, OK Don via Mercedes wrote:

  That is the real issue - are you willing to
risk your self and your family to keep your rights?



And that relates to the shooting in the bar in Florida.

If you were one of the police officers who attended the scene would you 
have wanted to charge inside to get the bad guy?


The lack of information should have made them cautious. Somewhere inside 
there is someone killing people. I assume no one knows for sure if it is 
one shooter or several.


The police do not want to get caught shooting innocent by-standers. They 
don't want to get shot themselves etc. It is a no-win situation.


If you have a wife and children at home, you shouldn't want to be a dead 
hero. You need to wait while someone  sets up a co-ordinated plan of 
attack that makes it less likely that the officers will be killed or 
injured when the team storms the place and takes out the bad guy(s). 
Might be bad news for the folks inside, but it would be foolish to waste 
trained officers in some mad scramble if no one has any clue what is 
actually happening.


RB



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Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

I love the logo on my ron paulista T shirt:  "Our Liberties we Prize, 
and our Rights, We WILL Defend!"



OK Don via Mercedes 
June 13, 2016 at 3:55 PMvia Postbox 


Don't make the mistake of equating conservative with anti gun laws. I know
very conservative right wing nuts who are scared of their shadows and want
all guns banned (too afraid to hold one), and very liberal left wing nuts
who will fight to the death to keep their guns. I also know a few (very
few) who are in the middle. Left/Right leaning does not seems to inter the
equation.

I thin it was Benjamin Franklin who said "Those that would give up liberty
for security deserve neither". That is the real issue - are you willing to
risk your self and your family to keep your rights?

Greg Fiorentino via Mercedes 
June 13, 2016 at 3:39 PMvia Postbox 


Perhaps the NRA could negotiate for a license reciprocity system across the
US. Just as security clearances are only checked once every 5 years, a
person would go through a background check (for free, of course, since we
shouldn't have to pay to exercise a constitutional right) and thereby be
licensed for 5 years and could carry anywhere in the US. This could be
rescinded via a due process if necessary (domestic violence or other serious
conviction, etc) and dealers must receive and check a current list of
rescissions. Automated renewal and re-check of record each 5 years.

Maybe require a simple qualification course periodically (5 years?).

The problem with negotiating has been that it is really just a 1-way street,
simply chipping away rights without any benefit to the firearms owners.

Greg

-Original Message-
From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Dan
Penoff via Mercedes
Sent: Monday, June 13, 2016 12:06 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Cc: Dan Penoff
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

This has confused and befuddled me for some time.

For the life of me I don't understand why the NRA doesn't come to the table.
They might get something good out of it rather than giving their opposition
even more reason to paint them in a negative light.

Dan

Sent from my iPad


On Jun 13, 2016, at 1:41 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes

  wrote:

Like George Carlin I do this thing called "Thinking for myself" which is a

radical idea for most of the world.

This tends to make me a moderate. I disagree with both sides of the

"political equation" pretty much equally.

So no I'm not an NRA radical, in fact I think the NRA does itself a

disservice in these situations by digging in its heels and refusing any gun
control measures. Their refusal to sit at the table at all is dumb. They
should be working across the aisle on background checks, it'd be something
easy that would show them as good people working WITH the antis. Then when
the control crowd proposes something wacky they'd be able to say "Hey, we've
been working with you!" as it is the other side gets to say "You just fight
us, clearly you want people to die."

*sigh*
In the end the control crowd is wrong, banning high capacity mags wouldn't

have made a difference in this case, the guy had plenty of time to reload
repeatedly anyway.

Anyway, remember you're not anti-gun you're pro-stormtrooper, those are

they people who will be charged with taking guns away from the legal gun
owners...

-Curt

  From: Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Cc: Andrew Strasfogel
Sent: Monday, June 13, 2016 1:25 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

Wow, so many of you have been radicalized by the NRA.  I'm impressed.

On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 1:22 PM, Joel Cairo via Mercedes<
mercedes@okiebenz.com>  wrote:


How'd that work in Europe?  How's that work in the south side of Chicago?

--JC



On 6/13/16 1:18 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote:

I guess I meant "currently legal guns that have the capability to kill
lots
of people quickly"

On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 1:11 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes<
mercedes@okiebenz.com>  wrote:

They already are, fully automatic weapons have been banned for years.

Did you perhaps mean "Scary black guns" instead?
-Curt

 From: Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes
   To: Mercedes Discussion List
Cc: Andrew Strasfogel; Meade Dillon<
dillonm...@gmail.com>
   Sent: Monday, June 13, 2Like George Carlin I do this thing called

"Thinking for myself" which is a radical idea for most of the world.

This tends to make me a moderate. I disagree with both sides of the

"political equation" pretty much equally.

So no I'm not an NRA radical, in fact I think the NRA does itself a

disservice in these situations by

Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

Too bad it is only ontario that committed suicide.  if Canada, china,  
meh-hee-ko, nee-hon and a few other countries would do that, we might 
have a chance of a financial recovery!





Randy Bennell via Mercedes 
June 13, 2016 at 3:51 PMvia Postbox 




I am with you Fred.
Cannot trust the government, or the police etc.
In Canada, once a government gets a majority in an election, they then 
think they can do whatever they want.
Just look at our latest federal government run by the Liberals and 
young Mr. Trudeau. Lord help us.
And, don't forget the RCMP using a flood as an excuse to kick the 
doors down in High River,  Alberta and take guns that were safely stored.
No excuse whatsoever for their actions but no one did a thing about 
it. Heads should have rolled all the way from the bottom to the top.
Those in charge should either be unemployed or working the far far 
north to protect the locals from polar bears.


The Liberal government in Ontario has just passed into law a carbon 
tax expected to take $1.9 billion per year from the pockets of its 
citizens. All in the name of being green but the only green is the 
cash the government will take and then distribute to its friends. Not 
even a suggestion that it might be revenue neutral like British 
Columbia where they at least try to raise some taxes and lower others 
so that it makes some form of sense. In Ontario it is all about the 
money. They have adopted a system like the one that failed in Europe. 
Should be good for those of you south of the border. Ontario is 
essentially out of business.


Cannot trust the courts either.
The independence of the judiciary means they can change the laws of 
the land in whatever silly way they decide makes sense to them.


One of my old law professors has decided that he cannot do anything 
about this sort of thing so he does not want to know about it. He 
won't read a newspaper of listen to the news on radio or tv.
I am getting close to that myself. I am frustrated by most of what I 
read or hear. The world as we knew it no longer exists. The 
politically correct have taken over.


I guess the smart thing to do, if one had the stomach for it, would be 
to figure out how to profit from it and do your best to take as much 
for yourself as you could. Goes against the grain of what most of us 
have been taught.


RB

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Fred Moir via Mercedes 
June 13, 2016 at 3:18 PMvia Postbox 


Andrew.
I keep forgetting that americans don't do irony, sorry.
I'm in favor of responsible gun ownership. (Who decides?).
I'm in favor of keeping all rights free of (stupid) regulations. 
(Again, who decides?).
No one should be denied any of their rights, except by due process of 
the law. ( Do you trust your legal system?).

Cynical? who, not me!

Fred Moir.
Lynn MA.
Diesel preferred.


From: Mercedes  on behalf of Andrew 
Strasfogel via Mercedes 

Sent: 13 June 2016 20:09
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Cc: Andrew Strasfogel; Fred Moir
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

Fred - I thought you were One of Us - what happened?
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Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes 
June 13, 2016 at 3:09 PMvia Postbox 


Fred - I thought you were One of Us - what happened?

On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 4:06 PM, Fred Moir via Mercedes <
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Fred Moir via Mercedes 
June 13, 2016 at 3:06 PMvia Postbox 


Andrew.
+1
Hold my beer 'n watch this.

Fred Moir.
Lynn MA.
Diesel preferred.


From: Mercedes  on behalf of Andrew 
Strasfogel via Mercedes 

Sent: 13 June 2016 18:26
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Cc: Andrew Strasfogel
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

Without me, what would you all talk about? Someone owes me a b**r.

___

Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

Rights are to be removed from the felons who are not removed from the 
population.  True crazies were committed, and thus had (in theory) no 
access to wea pons.  The remainder are to be responsible for their actions.


The -ists want everyone to be dependent sheeple so they can be 
controlled.  Now they are trying to restore voting rights to felons, as 
a way to get more jackass voters.It is a philosophy at odds with 
American culture.  Aside from attacks on every facet of Merkun kulture 
they are training the sheeple to be dependent and therefore, not 
responsible for their actions.  In that kull-ture the sheeple must be 
disarmed.



Randy Bennell via Mercedes 
June 13, 2016 at 2:50 PMvia Postbox 




I normally try to keep out of these threads as I am not in the USA and 
it does not apply to me but . . .

Now that is a frightening scenario.
If that were applied, then everyone would be entitled to firearms, no 
matter how crazy or violent etc. No regulation whatsoever because it 
is a constitutional right?
How do you balance that against the right to life, liberty etc? What 
about the rights of those who got killed over the weekend?


RB


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Re: [MBZ] 1990 300D - SOLD!

Plus the metal tag for a crate motor would be located on the passenger side of 
the bell housing not on the top like yours is. I have an engine with this in 
the shop I will see if I can get a pic. Oh wait, here it is online

http://okiebenz.com/pics/603engine/images/MVC-011S.JPG

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 13, 2016, at 5:09 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin  wrote:
> 
> Yes it is original. Sometimes they have come off by now.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Jun 13, 2016, at 5:00 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Is it the original engine tag?  I never saw one in this location.
>> 
>> Dan
>> 
>> 
>>> On Jun 13, 2016, at 5:59 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Nope that's not the metal crate motor tag
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> 
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Re: [MBZ] 1990 300D - SOLD!

Yes it is original. Sometimes they have come off by now.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 13, 2016, at 5:00 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> Is it the original engine tag?  I never saw one in this location.
> 
> Dan
> 
> 
>> On Jun 13, 2016, at 5:59 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Nope that's not the metal crate motor tag
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] 1990 300D - SOLD!

Is it the original engine tag?  I never saw one in this location.

Dan


> On Jun 13, 2016, at 5:59 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Nope that's not the metal crate motor tag
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 


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Re: [MBZ] 1990 300D - SOLD!

Nope that's not the metal crate motor tag

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 13, 2016, at 4:48 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> Of course it didn’t.
> 
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/ewgiio36xzm9uc6/IMG_1148.jpg?dl=0
> 
> 
> 
>> On Jun 13, 2016, at 5:46 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> I have attached a 12k JPEG to this, I’m curious to see if it goes through.  
>> If not, I’ll put a full size copy on Dropbox and post a link.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
 On Jun 13, 2016, at 5:31 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes 
  wrote:
 
 If it has a metal tag attached to the flywheel it is a crate motor.  Do 
 you have a photo you can get and send?
>> 
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 
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Re: [MBZ] 1990 300D - SOLD!

Of course it didn’t.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ewgiio36xzm9uc6/IMG_1148.jpg?dl=0



> On Jun 13, 2016, at 5:46 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> I have attached a 12k JPEG to this, I’m curious to see if it goes through.  
> If not, I’ll put a full size copy on Dropbox and post a link.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>>> On Jun 13, 2016, at 5:31 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> If it has a metal tag attached to the flywheel it is a crate motor.  Do you 
>>> have a photo you can get and send?
>>> 
> 
> ___
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> 
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> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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Re: [MBZ] 1990 300D - SOLD!

Time for dropbox... ;)

  From: Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
 To: Mercedes List  
Cc: Dan Penoff 
 Sent: Monday, June 13, 2016 5:46 PM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] 1990 300D - SOLD!

I have attached a 12k JPEG to this, I’m curious to see if it goes through.  If 
not, I’ll put a full size copy on Dropbox and post a link.

>> On Jun 13, 2016, at 5:31 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> If it has a metal tag attached to the flywheel it is a crate motor.  Do you 
>> have a photo you can get and send?
>> 

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Re: [MBZ] 1990 300D - SOLD!

I have attached a 12k JPEG to this, I’m curious to see if it goes through.  If 
not, I’ll put a full size copy on Dropbox and post a link.






>> On Jun 13, 2016, at 5:31 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> If it has a metal tag attached to the flywheel it is a crate motor.  Do you 
>> have a photo you can get and send?
>> 

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Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

Wayne Lapierre needs to have term limits applied to him, he sounds nuttier 
every day... Charlton Heston was a great president for the NRA, he was a strong 
leader people trusted. Lapierre sounds like somebody's nutty grandpa.
Sadly he might be a really smart guy with good ideas, its just how he comes 
off. Remember I'd tend to agree with him and I think that...
-Curt

  From: Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
 To: Mercedes List  
Cc: Dan Penoff 
 Sent: Monday, June 13, 2016 5:10 PM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question
   
I like the Swiss.  They have government issued firearms in every household, but 
a very low rate of firearm related deaths.

Interesting.

And yes, Greg, I think you’ve got some good ideas.  I am all for 2nd Amendment 
rights, but the system is flawed in so many ways.  I certainly understand the 
concerns of the NRA and how things just keep chipping away at rights.  However, 
I also think there are some positive things that could be done with their 
involvement that would not compromise our rights and also prove that gun owners 
aren’t a bunch of right wing radicals, too.

Because most are not, I believe.

Dan


> On Jun 13, 2016, at 4:39 PM, Greg Fiorentino via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Perhaps the NRA could negotiate for a license reciprocity system across the
> US. Just as security clearances are only checked once every 5 years, a
> person would go through a background check (for free, of course, since we
> shouldn't have to pay to exercise a constitutional right) and thereby be
> licensed for 5 years and could carry anywhere in the US. This could be
> rescinded via a due process if necessary (domestic violence or other serious
> conviction, etc) and dealers must receive and check a current list of
> rescissions. Automated renewal and re-check of record each 5 years.
> 
> Maybe require a simple qualification course periodically (5 years?).
> 
> The problem with negotiating has been that it is really just a 1-way street,
> simply chipping away rights without any benefit to the firearms owners.
> 
> Greg
> 


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Re: [MBZ] 1990 300D - SOLD!

Sure, let me go out and take one right now.

Dan


> On Jun 13, 2016, at 5:31 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> If it has a metal tag attached to the flywheel it is a crate motor.  Do you 
> have a photo you can get and send?
> 
> 
> On 6/13/2016 4:26 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote:
>> Donald,
>> 
>> I have a 1990 350SDL to be exact.  It was purchased not all that far from 
>> you in northern Arkansas.  It currently has 261,000 miles on the clock and 
>> runs wonderfully.  I have been unable to substantiate any major service to 
>> the car or engine other than something that shows up in the VMI with 
>> Mercedes around 1993 that cost into the low five figures.  I can’t imagine 
>> anything that expensive other than an engine replacement, but I can’t tell 
>> from the service codes in the VMI, and they’re too old for Mercedes to 
>> identify.
>> 
>> On that note, would anyone know if the OM603 has a serial number nameplate 
>> on the top of the flywheel housing?  I ask because mine does, but I can’t 
>> read it to tell if it’s the original engine serial number or not.
>> 
>> Dan
>> 
>> 
>>> On Jun 13, 2016, at 4:19 PM, Donald Snook via Mercedes 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> You have a 350SD?  A rodbender? Were you lucky enough that the previous 
>>> owner replaced the rods?  I still really want one. But, they are getting 
>>> harder and harder to find
>>> 
>>> Don Snook
>>> 
>> 
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>> 
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>> 
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

Interesting thing about the Swiss and firearms.. There is a weapon in each
household of military grade capable of full automatic fire, and it is also
equipped with a proscribed issue of ammunition. What is not brought out
however, is that every Citizen has to re-qualify, at a government run
range, on a proscribed schedule his proficiency with that weapon, and
account for every round of ammunition in his possession for it. He also
received training prior to issue of the weapon.

The guiding principle behind that system is that Switzerland is a small
country, and every Citizen has a duty to defend it.

Ohh... much like the Second Amendment in the USA.. in principle, isn't it..
Citizen Soldier...


Virus-free

<#DDB4FAA8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>

On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 2:10 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> I like the Swiss.  They have government issued firearms in every
> household, but a very low rate of firearm related deaths.
>
> Interesting.
>
> And yes, Greg, I think you’ve got some good ideas.  I am all for 2nd
> Amendment rights, but the system is flawed in so many ways.  I certainly
> understand the concerns of the NRA and how things just keep chipping away
> at rights.  However, I also think there are some positive things that could
> be done with their involvement that would not compromise our rights and
> also prove that gun owners aren’t a bunch of right wing radicals, too.
>
> Because most are not, I believe.
>
> Dan
>
>
> > On Jun 13, 2016, at 4:39 PM, Greg Fiorentino via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> > Perhaps the NRA could negotiate for a license reciprocity system across
> the
> > US. Just as security clearances are only checked once every 5 years, a
> > person would go through a background check (for free, of course, since we
> > shouldn't have to pay to exercise a constitutional right) and thereby be
> > licensed for 5 years and could carry anywhere in the US. This could be
> > rescinded via a due process if necessary (domestic violence or other
> serious
> > conviction, etc) and dealers must receive and check a current list of
> > rescissions. Automated renewal and re-check of record each 5 years.
> >
> > Maybe require a simple qualification course periodically (5 years?).
> >
> > The problem with negotiating has been that it is really just a 1-way
> street,
> > simply chipping away rights without any benefit to the firearms owners.
> >
> > Greg
> >
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] 1990 300D - SOLD!

If it has a metal tag attached to the flywheel it is a crate 
motor.  Do you have a photo you can get and send?



On 6/13/2016 4:26 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote:

Donald,

I have a 1990 350SDL to be exact.  It was purchased not all that far from you 
in northern Arkansas.  It currently has 261,000 miles on the clock and runs 
wonderfully.  I have been unable to substantiate any major service to the car 
or engine other than something that shows up in the VMI with Mercedes around 
1993 that cost into the low five figures.  I can’t imagine anything that 
expensive other than an engine replacement, but I can’t tell from the service 
codes in the VMI, and they’re too old for Mercedes to identify.

On that note, would anyone know if the OM603 has a serial number nameplate on 
the top of the flywheel housing?  I ask because mine does, but I can’t read it 
to tell if it’s the original engine serial number or not.

Dan



On Jun 13, 2016, at 4:19 PM, Donald Snook via Mercedes  
wrote:

You have a 350SD?  A rodbender? Were you lucky enough that the previous owner 
replaced the rods?  I still really want one. But, they are getting harder and 
harder to find

Don Snook



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Re: [MBZ] HOLY CRAP this 115 looks like it just time warped out of the 70's

And I would love to find a set of 15” steel wheels and matching color keyed 
wheel covers for my W126.  Unfortunately, they’re pretty much unobtanium.

That is the best look a car has ever had, I think.

Dan


> On Jun 13, 2016, at 4:21 PM, Donald Snook via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Yea, and I like them.  But, many of them have had the paint removed.  My 
> first MB was a 1971 250 and the previous owner had removed the paint from the 
> hubcaps.  They had been polished so it looked pretty good.  But, I have 
> always liked the painted hubcaps.
> 
> From: Andrew Strasfogel [mailto:astrasfo...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Monday, June 13, 2016 3:14 PM
> To: Mercedes Discussion List 
> Cc: Donald Snook 
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] HOLY CRAP this 115 looks like it just time warped out of 
> the 70's
> 
> IIRC hubcaps were always painted in the same color code as the body of the 
> car for 115, 108, 109,111 models.
> 
> On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 4:10 PM, Donald Snook via Mercedes 
> > wrote:
> I love the wheels painted with the body color.  That is fantastic car.  
> Amazing that it has such low miles.  Up to $9K now
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Kaleb C. Striplin [mailto:ka...@striplin.net]
> Sent: Friday, June 10, 2016 7:41 PM
> To: Mercedes Discussion List 
> >; 
> davesl...@okiebenz.com
> Subject: [MBZ] HOLY CRAP this 115 looks like it just time warped out of the 
> 70's
> 
> It still even has the original Siggi Grimm dealer sticker on the back which 
> was the Tulsa MB dealer up until 91 when they got bought out and changed 
> names.  My 115 that was my grandmothers has the Siggi Grimm sticker on it as 
> well.  I wonder what they want for it. Its even got leather which is really 
> rare on a 115
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mercedes-Benz-300-Series-/331877848647?forcerrptr=true=item4d45761647:g:41UAAOSwMNxXWj7j=331877848647
> 
> 
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> 
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> 
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Re: [MBZ] 1990 300D - SOLD!

Donald,

I have a 1990 350SDL to be exact.  It was purchased not all that far from you 
in northern Arkansas.  It currently has 261,000 miles on the clock and runs 
wonderfully.  I have been unable to substantiate any major service to the car 
or engine other than something that shows up in the VMI with Mercedes around 
1993 that cost into the low five figures.  I can’t imagine anything that 
expensive other than an engine replacement, but I can’t tell from the service 
codes in the VMI, and they’re too old for Mercedes to identify.

On that note, would anyone know if the OM603 has a serial number nameplate on 
the top of the flywheel housing?  I ask because mine does, but I can’t read it 
to tell if it’s the original engine serial number or not.

Dan

> On Jun 13, 2016, at 4:19 PM, Donald Snook via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> You have a 350SD?  A rodbender? Were you lucky enough that the previous owner 
> replaced the rods?  I still really want one. But, they are getting harder and 
> harder to find
> 
> Don Snook
> 

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Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

I like the Swiss.  They have government issued firearms in every household, but 
a very low rate of firearm related deaths.

Interesting.

And yes, Greg, I think you’ve got some good ideas.  I am all for 2nd Amendment 
rights, but the system is flawed in so many ways.  I certainly understand the 
concerns of the NRA and how things just keep chipping away at rights.  However, 
I also think there are some positive things that could be done with their 
involvement that would not compromise our rights and also prove that gun owners 
aren’t a bunch of right wing radicals, too.

Because most are not, I believe.

Dan

> On Jun 13, 2016, at 4:39 PM, Greg Fiorentino via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Perhaps the NRA could negotiate for a license reciprocity system across the
> US. Just as security clearances are only checked once every 5 years, a
> person would go through a background check (for free, of course, since we
> shouldn't have to pay to exercise a constitutional right) and thereby be
> licensed for 5 years and could carry anywhere in the US. This could be
> rescinded via a due process if necessary (domestic violence or other serious
> conviction, etc) and dealers must receive and check a current list of
> rescissions. Automated renewal and re-check of record each 5 years.
> 
> Maybe require a simple qualification course periodically (5 years?).
> 
> The problem with negotiating has been that it is really just a 1-way street,
> simply chipping away rights without any benefit to the firearms owners.
> 
> Greg
> 

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Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

2016-06-13 Thread OK Don via Mercedes

Don't make the mistake of equating conservative with anti gun laws. I know
very conservative right wing nuts who are scared of their shadows and want
all guns banned (too afraid to hold one), and very liberal left wing nuts
who will fight to the death to keep their guns. I also know a few (very
few) who are in the middle. Left/Right leaning does not seems to inter the
equation.

I thin it was Benjamin Franklin who said "Those that would give up liberty
for security deserve neither". That is the real issue - are you willing to
risk your self and your family to keep your rights?

-- 
OK Don

*“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of
our people need it sorely on these accounts.”* – Mark Twain

"There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who
learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
for themselves."

WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question


On 13/06/2016 3:18 PM, Fred Moir via Mercedes wrote:

Andrew.
I keep forgetting that americans don't do irony, sorry.
I'm in favor of responsible gun ownership. (Who decides?).
I'm in favor of keeping all rights free of (stupid) regulations. (Again, who 
decides?).
No one should be denied any of their rights, except by due process of the law. 
( Do you trust your legal system?).
Cynical? who, not me!

Fred Moir.
Lynn MA.
Diesel preferred.




I am with you Fred.
Cannot trust the government, or the police etc.
In Canada, once a government gets a majority in an election, they then 
think they can do whatever they want.
Just look at our latest federal government run by the Liberals and young 
Mr. Trudeau. Lord help us.
And, don't forget the RCMP using a flood as an excuse to kick the doors 
down in High River,  Alberta and take guns that were safely stored.
No excuse whatsoever for their actions but no one did a thing about it. 
Heads should have rolled all the way from the bottom to the top.
Those in charge should either be unemployed or working the far far north 
to protect the locals from polar bears.


The Liberal government in Ontario has just passed into law a carbon tax 
expected to take $1.9 billion per year from the pockets of its citizens. 
All in the name of being green but the only green is the cash the 
government will take and then distribute to its friends. Not even a 
suggestion that it might be revenue neutral like British Columbia where 
they at least try to raise some taxes and lower others so that it makes 
some form of sense. In Ontario it is all about the money. They have 
adopted a system like the one that failed in Europe. Should be good for 
those of you south of the border. Ontario is essentially out of business.


Cannot trust the courts either.
The independence of the judiciary means they can change the laws of the 
land in whatever silly way they decide makes sense to them.


One of my old law professors has decided that he cannot do anything 
about this sort of thing so he does not want to know about it. He won't 
read a newspaper of listen to the news on radio or tv.
I am getting close to that myself. I am frustrated by most of what I 
read or hear. The world as we knew it no longer exists. The politically 
correct have taken over.


I guess the smart thing to do, if one had the stomach for it, would be 
to figure out how to profit from it and do your best to take as much for 
yourself as you could. Goes against the grain of what most of us have 
been taught.


RB

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Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

2016-06-13 Thread Greg Fiorentino via Mercedes

Perhaps the NRA could negotiate for a license reciprocity system across the
US. Just as security clearances are only checked once every 5 years, a
person would go through a background check (for free, of course, since we
shouldn't have to pay to exercise a constitutional right) and thereby be
licensed for 5 years and could carry anywhere in the US. This could be
rescinded via a due process if necessary (domestic violence or other serious
conviction, etc) and dealers must receive and check a current list of
rescissions. Automated renewal and re-check of record each 5 years.

Maybe require a simple qualification course periodically (5 years?).

The problem with negotiating has been that it is really just a 1-way street,
simply chipping away rights without any benefit to the firearms owners.

Greg

-Original Message-
From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Dan
Penoff via Mercedes
Sent: Monday, June 13, 2016 12:06 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Cc: Dan Penoff
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

This has confused and befuddled me for some time.

For the life of me I don't understand why the NRA doesn't come to the table.
They might get something good out of it rather than giving their opposition
even more reason to paint them in a negative light.

Dan

Sent from my iPad

> On Jun 13, 2016, at 1:41 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes
 wrote:
> 
> Like George Carlin I do this thing called "Thinking for myself" which is a
radical idea for most of the world.
> This tends to make me a moderate. I disagree with both sides of the
"political equation" pretty much equally.
> So no I'm not an NRA radical, in fact I think the NRA does itself a
disservice in these situations by digging in its heels and refusing any gun
control measures. Their refusal to sit at the table at all is dumb. They
should be working across the aisle on background checks, it'd be something
easy that would show them as good people working WITH the antis. Then when
the control crowd proposes something wacky they'd be able to say "Hey, we've
been working with you!" as it is the other side gets to say "You just fight
us, clearly you want people to die."
> *sigh*
> In the end the control crowd is wrong, banning high capacity mags wouldn't
have made a difference in this case, the guy had plenty of time to reload
repeatedly anyway.
> Anyway, remember you're not anti-gun you're pro-stormtrooper, those are
they people who will be charged with taking guns away from the legal gun
owners...
> -Curt
> 
>  From: Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes 
> To: Mercedes Discussion List  
> Cc: Andrew Strasfogel 
> Sent: Monday, June 13, 2016 1:25 PM
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question
> 
> Wow, so many of you have been radicalized by the NRA.  I'm impressed.
> 
> On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 1:22 PM, Joel Cairo via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
>> How'd that work in Europe?  How's that work in the south side of Chicago?
>> 
>> --JC
>> 
>> 
>>> On 6/13/16 1:18 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote:
>>> 
>>> I guess I meant "currently legal guns that have the capability to kill
>>> lots
>>> of people quickly"
>>> 
>>> On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 1:11 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes <
>>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> They already are, fully automatic weapons have been banned for years.
 Did you perhaps mean "Scary black guns" instead?
 -Curt
 
 From: Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes 
   To: Mercedes Discussion List 
 Cc: Andrew Strasfogel ; Meade Dillon <
 dillonm...@gmail.com>
   Sent: Monday, June 13, 2Like George Carlin I do this thing called
"Thinking for myself" which is a radical idea for most of the world.
> This tends to make me a moderate. I disagree with both sides of the
"political equation" pretty much equally.
> So no I'm not an NRA radical, in fact I think the NRA does itself a
disservice in these situations by digging in its heels and refusing any gun
control measures. Their refusal to sit at the table at all is dumb. They
should be working across the aisle on background checks, it'd be something
easy that would show them as good people working WITH the antis. Then when
the control crowd proposes something wacky they'd be able to say "Hey, we've
been working with you!" as it is the other side gets to say "You just fight
us, clearly you want people to die."
> *sigh*
> In the end the control crowd is wrong, banning high capacity mags wouldn't
have made a difference in this case, the guy had plenty of time to reload
repeatedly anyway.
> Anyway, remember you're not anti-gun you're pro-stormtrooper, those are
they people who will be charged with taking guns away from the legal gun
owners...
> -Curt
> 
>  From: Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes 
> To: Mercedes Discussion List

Re: [MBZ] HOLY CRAP this 115 looks like it just time warped out of the 70's

2016-06-13 Thread Donald Snook via Mercedes

Yea, and I like them.  But, many of them have had the paint removed.  My first 
MB was a 1971 250 and the previous owner had removed the paint from the 
hubcaps.  They had been polished so it looked pretty good.  But, I have always 
liked the painted hubcaps.

From: Andrew Strasfogel [mailto:astrasfo...@gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, June 13, 2016 3:14 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List 
Cc: Donald Snook 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] HOLY CRAP this 115 looks like it just time warped out of the 
70's

IIRC hubcaps were always painted in the same color code as the body of the car 
for 115, 108, 109,111 models.

On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 4:10 PM, Donald Snook via Mercedes 
> wrote:
I love the wheels painted with the body color.  That is fantastic car.  Amazing 
that it has such low miles.  Up to $9K now

-Original Message-
From: Kaleb C. Striplin [mailto:ka...@striplin.net]
Sent: Friday, June 10, 2016 7:41 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List 
>; 
davesl...@okiebenz.com
Subject: [MBZ] HOLY CRAP this 115 looks like it just time warped out of the 70's

It still even has the original Siggi Grimm dealer sticker on the back which was 
the Tulsa MB dealer up until 91 when they got bought out and changed names.  My 
115 that was my grandmothers has the Siggi Grimm sticker on it as well.  I 
wonder what they want for it. Its even got leather which is really rare on a 115

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mercedes-Benz-300-Series-/331877848647?forcerrptr=true=item4d45761647:g:41UAAOSwMNxXWj7j=331877848647

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Re: [MBZ] 1990 300D - SOLD!

2016-06-13 Thread Donald Snook via Mercedes

You have a 350SD?  A rodbender? Were you lucky enough that the previous owner 
replaced the rods?  I still really want one. But, they are getting harder and 
harder to find

Don Snook

-Original Message-
From: Dan Penoff [mailto:d...@penoff.com] 
Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2016 11:43 AM
To: Mercedes List 
Subject: [MBZ] 1990 300D - SOLD!

Sold the 1990 300D.  Just too many questions regarding the integrity of the 
engine.  Bought for $650, put oil, filter and fuel filters on it, sold it for 
$800 to the first CL buyer who showed up.

Can’t say I made money, but I probably broke even.  Lesson learned.  Just glad 
I was able to get rid of it.

I’m done with project cars for the oldest boy for now.  Going to focus on some 
stuff with the 350SDL before I take on any (new) major projects.

Dan

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Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

2016-06-13 Thread Fred Moir via Mercedes

Andrew.
I keep forgetting that americans don't do irony, sorry.
I'm in favor of responsible gun ownership. (Who decides?).
I'm in favor of keeping all rights free of (stupid) regulations. (Again, who 
decides?).
No one should be denied any of their rights, except by due process of the law. 
( Do you trust your legal system?).
Cynical? who, not me!

Fred Moir.
Lynn MA.
Diesel preferred.


From: Mercedes  on behalf of Andrew Strasfogel 
via Mercedes 
Sent: 13 June 2016 20:09
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Cc: Andrew Strasfogel; Fred Moir
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

Fred - I thought you were One of Us - what happened?
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

Grant, you are my favorite RW Gun Nut.  And that is a high compliment.  :)

On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 4:15 PM, G Mann via Mercedes 
wrote:

> OK. personal belief aside..
>
> Anyone find it somehow hypocritical that the first thing an "anti-gun
> person" does when confronted with life threatening violence is call someone
> with a gun to come "save them" ?? [police]
>
> I do. In the obverse, I find it hypocritical that the courts have
> established the police have no duty to protect you, and their only reason
> for being armed is to protect themselves..
>
> We do indeed live in strange times. and.. I'm glad to know that Andrew has
> finally been "outed" for his John Birch Membership.. ;)))
> He really plays his part well of the permanent protagonist.. kudos.
>
> <
> https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email_source=link_campaign=sig-email_content=webmail_term=oa-2322-b
> >
> Virus-free
> <
> https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email_source=link_campaign=sig-email_content=webmail_term=oa-2322-b
> >
> <#DDB4FAA8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
>
> On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 1:06 PM, Fred Moir via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
> > Andrew.
> > +1
> > Hold my beer 'n watch this.
> >
> > Fred Moir.
> > Lynn MA.
> > Diesel preferred.
> >
> > 
> > From: Mercedes  on behalf of Andrew
> > Strasfogel via Mercedes 
> > Sent: 13 June 2016 18:26
> > To: Mercedes Discussion List
> > Cc: Andrew Strasfogel
> > Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question
> >
> > Without me, what would you all talk about?  Someone owes me a b**r.
> >
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> >
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> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >
> >
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

OK. personal belief aside..

Anyone find it somehow hypocritical that the first thing an "anti-gun
person" does when confronted with life threatening violence is call someone
with a gun to come "save them" ?? [police]

I do. In the obverse, I find it hypocritical that the courts have
established the police have no duty to protect you, and their only reason
for being armed is to protect themselves..

We do indeed live in strange times. and.. I'm glad to know that Andrew has
finally been "outed" for his John Birch Membership.. ;)))
He really plays his part well of the permanent protagonist.. kudos.

Virus-free

<#DDB4FAA8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>

On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 1:06 PM, Fred Moir via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Andrew.
> +1
> Hold my beer 'n watch this.
>
> Fred Moir.
> Lynn MA.
> Diesel preferred.
>
> 
> From: Mercedes  on behalf of Andrew
> Strasfogel via Mercedes 
> Sent: 13 June 2016 18:26
> To: Mercedes Discussion List
> Cc: Andrew Strasfogel
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question
>
> Without me, what would you all talk about?  Someone owes me a b**r.
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
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>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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Re: [MBZ] HOLY CRAP this 115 looks like it just time warped out of the 70's

IIRC hubcaps were always painted in the same color code as the body of the
car for 115, 108, 109,111 models.

On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 4:10 PM, Donald Snook via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> I love the wheels painted with the body color.  That is fantastic car.
> Amazing that it has such low miles.  Up to $9K now
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Kaleb C. Striplin [mailto:ka...@striplin.net]
> Sent: Friday, June 10, 2016 7:41 PM
> To: Mercedes Discussion List ;
> davesl...@okiebenz.com
> Subject: [MBZ] HOLY CRAP this 115 looks like it just time warped out of
> the 70's
>
> It still even has the original Siggi Grimm dealer sticker on the back
> which was the Tulsa MB dealer up until 91 when they got bought out and
> changed names.  My 115 that was my grandmothers has the Siggi Grimm sticker
> on it as well.  I wonder what they want for it. Its even got leather which
> is really rare on a 115
>
>
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mercedes-Benz-300-Series-/331877848647?forcerrptr=true=item4d45761647:g:41UAAOSwMNxXWj7j=331877848647
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] HOLY CRAP this 115 looks like it just time warped out of the 70's

2016-06-13 Thread Donald Snook via Mercedes

I love the wheels painted with the body color.  That is fantastic car.  Amazing 
that it has such low miles.  Up to $9K now

-Original Message-
From: Kaleb C. Striplin [mailto:ka...@striplin.net] 
Sent: Friday, June 10, 2016 7:41 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List ; davesl...@okiebenz.com
Subject: [MBZ] HOLY CRAP this 115 looks like it just time warped out of the 70's

It still even has the original Siggi Grimm dealer sticker on the back which was 
the Tulsa MB dealer up until 91 when they got bought out and changed names.  My 
115 that was my grandmothers has the Siggi Grimm sticker on it as well.  I 
wonder what they want for it. Its even got leather which is really rare on a 115

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mercedes-Benz-300-Series-/331877848647?forcerrptr=true=item4d45761647:g:41UAAOSwMNxXWj7j=331877848647

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Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

Fred - I thought you were One of Us - what happened?

On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 4:06 PM, Fred Moir via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Andrew.
> +1
> Hold my beer 'n watch this.
>
> Fred Moir.
> Lynn MA.
> Diesel preferred.
>
> 
> From: Mercedes  on behalf of Andrew
> Strasfogel via Mercedes 
> Sent: 13 June 2016 18:26
> To: Mercedes Discussion List
> Cc: Andrew Strasfogel
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question
>
> Without me, what would you all talk about?  Someone owes me a b**r.
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
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>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

2016-06-13 Thread Fred Moir via Mercedes

Andrew.
+1
Hold my beer 'n watch this.

Fred Moir.
Lynn MA.
Diesel preferred.


From: Mercedes  on behalf of Andrew Strasfogel 
via Mercedes 
Sent: 13 June 2016 18:26
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Cc: Andrew Strasfogel
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

Without me, what would you all talk about?  Someone owes me a b**r.

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Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

Well, NPR are now calling the gun the whackjob used, "an automatic-style 
weapon."


No agenda there I would guess.

Let me rephrase my statement below to express my thought more 
effectively (I misspoke, what I really meant was...), "a Constitutional 
right should not be subject to wholesale suspension."


--JC


On 6/13/16 3:58 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes wrote:

I feel a little weird about restricting the rights of people who "might" do 
something but I feel comfortable that a wife beater has given up his rights to own guns. 
I wouldn't feel terrible about him giving his driving privilege too for that matter...
-Curt

   From: Randy Bennell via Mercedes 
  To: Mercedes Discussion List 
Cc: Randy Bennell 
  Sent: Monday, June 13, 2016 3:50 PM
  Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

On 13/06/2016 2:42 PM, Joel Cairo via Mercedes wrote:

Driving is a privilege, it is not a right as enumerated in the
Constitution.  So, driving can be subject to various regulations;
whereas, a Constitutional right should not be subject to regulation.

--R


I normally try to keep out of these threads as I am not in the USA and
it does not apply to me but . . .
Now that is a frightening scenario.
If that were applied, then everyone would be entitled to firearms, no
matter how crazy or violent etc. No regulation whatsoever because it is
a constitutional right?
How do you balance that against the right to life, liberty etc? What
about the rights of those who got killed over the weekend?

RB


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Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

I feel a little weird about restricting the rights of people who "might" do 
something but I feel comfortable that a wife beater has given up his rights to 
own guns. I wouldn't feel terrible about him giving his driving privilege too 
for that matter...
-Curt

  From: Randy Bennell via Mercedes 
 To: Mercedes Discussion List  
Cc: Randy Bennell 
 Sent: Monday, June 13, 2016 3:50 PM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question
   
On 13/06/2016 2:42 PM, Joel Cairo via Mercedes wrote:
> Driving is a privilege, it is not a right as enumerated in the 
> Constitution.  So, driving can be subject to various regulations; 
> whereas, a Constitutional right should not be subject to regulation.
>
> --R
>

I normally try to keep out of these threads as I am not in the USA and 
it does not apply to me but . . .
Now that is a frightening scenario.
If that were applied, then everyone would be entitled to firearms, no 
matter how crazy or violent etc. No regulation whatsoever because it is 
a constitutional right?
How do you balance that against the right to life, liberty etc? What 
about the rights of those who got killed over the weekend?

RB


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Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

Well said.

On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 3:50 PM, Randy Bennell via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> On 13/06/2016 2:42 PM, Joel Cairo via Mercedes wrote:
>
>> Driving is a privilege, it is not a right as enumerated in the
>> Constitution.  So, driving can be subject to various regulations; whereas,
>> a Constitutional right should not be subject to regulation.
>>
>> --R
>>
>>
> I normally try to keep out of these threads as I am not in the USA and it
> does not apply to me but . . .
> Now that is a frightening scenario.
> If that were applied, then everyone would be entitled to firearms, no
> matter how crazy or violent etc. No regulation whatsoever because it is a
> constitutional right?
> How do you balance that against the right to life, liberty etc? What about
> the rights of those who got killed over the weekend?
>
> RB
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question


On 13/06/2016 2:42 PM, Joel Cairo via Mercedes wrote:
Driving is a privilege, it is not a right as enumerated in the 
Constitution.  So, driving can be subject to various regulations; 
whereas, a Constitutional right should not be subject to regulation.


--R



I normally try to keep out of these threads as I am not in the USA and 
it does not apply to me but . . .

Now that is a frightening scenario.
If that were applied, then everyone would be entitled to firearms, no 
matter how crazy or violent etc. No regulation whatsoever because it is 
a constitutional right?
How do you balance that against the right to life, liberty etc? What 
about the rights of those who got killed over the weekend?


RB


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Re: [MBZ] James May new show

I watched a bit of that, it is typically Brit.  Reminded me of the 
knitting channel they supposedly have on Norwegian TV where people just 
sit and knit with a camera on it.  But May has some interesting patter, 
and the intonations, etc. make it fun.


--R


On 6/13/16 2:48 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes wrote:

Have you guys seen James May's new show, "Reassembler"? They give him something 
all in pieces and with the manual he puts it back together?
Weird idea for a show but strangely relaxing to watch. He drones on a bit, 
gives a little history and builds (rebuilds I guess) something. I watched the 
first episode where he puts together a lawnmower from the '50s. Its on 
Youtube...
Another James May show is "Man Lab". I've been hoping they'd do another season. 
Its kind of dumb but interesting anyway.
-Curt
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

Driving is a privilege, it is not a right as enumerated in the 
Constitution.  So, driving can be subject to various regulations; 
whereas, a Constitutional right should not be subject to regulation.


--R


On 6/13/16 3:28 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes wrote:

Sad isn't it?
I argued with a student once about this. I suggested that they'd give anybody with a 
pulse a driver's license. He somehow doesn't see it, I think maybe he doesn't drive very 
much. He suggested that driver's ed was "strenuous"...
When I was in high school I went to Germany on a student exchange, some of the 
kids were in driver's ed and THAT was strenuous...
-Curt

   From: Rick Knoble 
  To: Curt Raymond via Mercedes 
  Sent: Monday, June 13, 2016 3:14 PM
  Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

Curt inquires:


‎>So taking this to the extreme we >should end all licensure?
‎>Any idiot that wants to get behind >the wheel of a car should just do >so?

Poor example. They already do. Have you driven in traffic (or NOT in traffic, 
as Grant can attest) lately?

Rick
Sent from my BlackBerry Z10‎

   
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

Sad isn't it?
I argued with a student once about this. I suggested that they'd give anybody 
with a pulse a driver's license. He somehow doesn't see it, I think maybe he 
doesn't drive very much. He suggested that driver's ed was "strenuous"...
When I was in high school I went to Germany on a student exchange, some of the 
kids were in driver's ed and THAT was strenuous...
-Curt

  From: Rick Knoble 
 To: Curt Raymond via Mercedes  
 Sent: Monday, June 13, 2016 3:14 PM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question
   
Curt inquires:

‎>So taking this to the extreme we >should end all licensure?
‎>Any idiot that wants to get behind >the wheel of a car should just do >so?

Poor example. They already do. Have you driven in traffic (or NOT in traffic, 
as Grant can attest) lately?

Rick 
Sent from my BlackBerry Z10‎

  
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

We/she is addicted to Blue Bloods.  Formulaic but always compelling, well
scripted, and well acted.

BTW, on a different note, here is a link one of the best  - if not THE
funniest - SNL skits ever produced - "America's Funniest Cats..." with Adam
Driver and SNL cast members (C. Strong, K McKimnon):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AH4yRRTgcE8


On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 2:48 PM, Meade Dillon via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Foyle's War is a great series, although it got a bit dopey toward the end.
>
> -
> Max
> Charleston SC
>
> On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 2:43 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
> > Is there a new season of Longmire starting up?
> >
> > I like that show.
> >
> > There's one I watched with the wife this weekend called "Foyle", I think?
> > About a detective during WW2 in the UK.  Pretty interesting from a
> > historical standpoint. I learned all about how the rich and privileged
> were
> > able to bail out of London and stay in private homes/estates in the
> country
> > for people with "medical conditions".
> >
> > Dan
> >
> >
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Re: [MBZ] Alternative Refrigerants

2016-06-13 Thread MG via Mercedes

Yes now that I went back and looked at it, and went to look at my 
original condenser. I was mistaken. It seems the original is the 
most primitive single path or pass condenser. The freon flows 
back and forth in one long tube till it gets to the end and goes 
on to the dryer etc.


The slightly newer ones are the original so called parallel flow 
condensers which have been around for quite a few years already. 
They split the tubes into 2-4 paths from where the hose connects 
so that the flow in 2-4 tubes runs in the same direction next to 
each other before reversing direction on the other end but they 
still wind back and forth like the serpentine single tube 
condenser. They are better because the more paths there are the 
slower the same volume of freon moves so the more time it has to 
get cooled and condensed to liquid before the paths are again 
combined and leave the condenser. That of course made them more 
efficient so they could be used for the R-134 applications.


The newer so called parallel flow condensers used the same back 
and forth serpentine flow in a multipath configuration which 
splits up the flow to run from one side to the other in four or 
more of the rows of tubes or rods with multiple small passages in 
them. The 4 rods may be the origin of their 4 pass meaning 4 rows 
which then go back to the original side in the next 4 rows and so 
on. Each of the sections of 4 rows are of course blocked from 
interacting in the end pipes alternately. I will try to find the 
picture of the internals. In it you will see the most salient 
difference which is the size of the passages. The older 
condensers just used larger passages that turned at the ends 
rather then ending in a bigger pipe to do the change in direction 
before splitting back into into smaller tubes.


In the more efficient newest condensers the passages are also 
much smaller thereby causing the freon to be forced into more 
intimate contact with the walls which is what makes for the 
better cooling. Unfortunately they also will plug up in the case 
of a compressor crash and will probably be very difficult or 
impossible to be cleaned, as someone else has mentioned. Sorry I 
forgot who it was. Because of the smaller passages there are also 
3 or 4 next to each other in each flat section going from one 
side to the other. That is to make sure the flow has enough area 
to slow it down. It may also be the origin of the 4 pass part of 
the name.


In any case all of the condensers in auto use, and even in 
residential and light commercial HVAC are by definition cross 
flow condensers, as are the evaporators and even, to get right 
down to it the radiators in all vehicles. The true parallel flow 
coolers where the heat exchanging fluids run parallel to each 
other are usually used with liquid to liquid, such as with 
geothermal HVAC units or air to air heat exchange where you don't 
want the mediums to combine or contaminate each other for one 
reason or another.


This thing got a lot longer then I wanted it but the delete 
button is as always available. :-)


Manfred

You may have to OK the picture attached to this for the list.

Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2016 10:50:09 -0400
From: Dan Penoff 

If I recall, the one these guys are marketing as a replacement 
for the stock condenser is a four- pass, which would effectively 
double the surface area of the condenser.


I hope I wasn't giving the impression that the cross flow aspect 
was a big deal, as it really doesn't matter which way the 
refrigerant flows, it's more about surface area and heat transfer.


Dan
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

This has confused and befuddled me for some time.

For the life of me I don't understand why the NRA doesn't come to the table. 
They might get something good out of it rather than giving their opposition 
even more reason to paint them in a negative light.

Dan

Sent from my iPad

> On Jun 13, 2016, at 1:41 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Like George Carlin I do this thing called "Thinking for myself" which is a 
> radical idea for most of the world.
> This tends to make me a moderate. I disagree with both sides of the 
> "political equation" pretty much equally.
> So no I'm not an NRA radical, in fact I think the NRA does itself a 
> disservice in these situations by digging in its heels and refusing any gun 
> control measures. Their refusal to sit at the table at all is dumb. They 
> should be working across the aisle on background checks, it'd be something 
> easy that would show them as good people working WITH the antis. Then when 
> the control crowd proposes something wacky they'd be able to say "Hey, we've 
> been working with you!" as it is the other side gets to say "You just fight 
> us, clearly you want people to die."
> *sigh*
> In the end the control crowd is wrong, banning high capacity mags wouldn't 
> have made a difference in this case, the guy had plenty of time to reload 
> repeatedly anyway.
> Anyway, remember you're not anti-gun you're pro-stormtrooper, those are they 
> people who will be charged with taking guns away from the legal gun owners...
> -Curt
> 
>  From: Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes 
> To: Mercedes Discussion List  
> Cc: Andrew Strasfogel 
> Sent: Monday, June 13, 2016 1:25 PM
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question
> 
> Wow, so many of you have been radicalized by the NRA.  I'm impressed.
> 
> On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 1:22 PM, Joel Cairo via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
>> How'd that work in Europe?  How's that work in the south side of Chicago?
>> 
>> --JC
>> 
>> 
>>> On 6/13/16 1:18 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote:
>>> 
>>> I guess I meant "currently legal guns that have the capability to kill
>>> lots
>>> of people quickly"
>>> 
>>> On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 1:11 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes <
>>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> They already are, fully automatic weapons have been banned for years.
 Did you perhaps mean "Scary black guns" instead?
 -Curt
 
 From: Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes 
   To: Mercedes Discussion List 
 Cc: Andrew Strasfogel ; Meade Dillon <
 dillonm...@gmail.com>
   Sent: Monday, June 13, 2Like George Carlin I do this thing called 
 "Thinking for myself" which is a radical idea for most of the world.
> This tends to make me a moderate. I disagree with both sides of the 
> "political equation" pretty much equally.
> So no I'm not an NRA radical, in fact I think the NRA does itself a 
> disservice in these situations by digging in its heels and refusing any gun 
> control measures. Their refusal to sit at the table at all is dumb. They 
> should be working across the aisle on background checks, it'd be something 
> easy that would show them as good people working WITH the antis. Then when 
> the control crowd proposes something wacky they'd be able to say "Hey, we've 
> been working with you!" as it is the other side gets to say "You just fight 
> us, clearly you want people to die."
> *sigh*
> In the end the control crowd is wrong, banning high capacity mags wouldn't 
> have made a difference in this case, the guy had plenty of time to reload 
> repeatedly anyway.
> Anyway, remember you're not anti-gun you're pro-stormtrooper, those are they 
> people who will be charged with taking guns away from the legal gun owners...
> -Curt
> 
>  From: Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes 
> To: Mercedes Discussion List  
> Cc: Andrew Strasfogel 
> Sent: Monday, June 13, 2016 1:25 PM
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question
> 
> Wow, so many of you have been radicalized by the NRA.  I'm impressed.
> 
> On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 1:22 PM, Joel Cairo via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
>> How'd that work in Europe?  How's that work in the south side of Chicago?
>> 
>> --JC
>> 
>> 
>>> On 6/13/16 1:18 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote:
>>> 
>>> I guess I meant "currently legal guns that have the capability to kill
>>> lots
>>> of people quickly"
>>> 
>>> On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 1:11 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes <
>>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> They already are, fully automatic weapons have been banned for years.
 Did you perhaps mean "Scary black guns" instead?
 -Curt
 
 From: Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes 
   To: Mercedes Discussion List

Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

So taking this to the extreme we should end all licensure? Any idiot that wants 
to get behind the wheel of a car should just do so?
-Curt

  From: Mitch Haley 
 To: Curt Raymond ; Mercedes Discussion List 

 Sent: Monday, June 13, 2016 1:51 PM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

On June 13, 2016 at 1:41 PM Curt Raymond via Mercedes  
wrote:

Like George Carlin I do this thing called "Thinking for myself" which is a 
radical idea for most of the world.
This tends to make me a moderate. I disagree with both sides of the "political 
equation" pretty much equally.
So no I'm not an NRA radical, in fact I think the NRA does itself a disservice 
in these situations by digging in its heels and refusing any gun control 
measures. Their refusal to sit at the table at all is dumb.

If you're going to speak for Negotiating Rights Away, at least try to be 
accurate. 
They're tops in playing political games with civil rights, but their membership 
has been seeing the light in recent years and won't stand for it any longer. 

Why on earth should I, or anyone else, sit down at the bargaining table to 
discuss how much of my inalienable civil rights I'm going to lose this time, 
with absolutely nothing to gain? 
Isn't it wiser to just say: They're my rights, respect them or I'll sue your 
ass. 

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Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

Foyle's War is a great series, although it got a bit dopey toward the end.

-
Max
Charleston SC

On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 2:43 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Is there a new season of Longmire starting up?
>
> I like that show.
>
> There's one I watched with the wife this weekend called "Foyle", I think?
> About a detective during WW2 in the UK.  Pretty interesting from a
> historical standpoint. I learned all about how the rich and privileged were
> able to bail out of London and stay in private homes/estates in the country
> for people with "medical conditions".
>
> Dan
>
>
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[MBZ] James May new show

Have you guys seen James May's new show, "Reassembler"? They give him something 
all in pieces and with the manual he puts it back together?
Weird idea for a show but strangely relaxing to watch. He drones on a bit, 
gives a little history and builds (rebuilds I guess) something. I watched the 
first episode where he puts together a lawnmower from the '50s. Its on 
Youtube...
Another James May show is "Man Lab". I've been hoping they'd do another season. 
Its kind of dumb but interesting anyway.
-Curt
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Re: [MBZ] And I learned something today

(For those who don't know, JC is built better than Hulk Hogan).

-
Max
Charleston SC

On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 2:36 PM, Joel Cairo via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Stainless bolts don't have much yield if you crank on them, they tend to
> snap (rotational shear) pretty easily.  I have broken 1/2 SS lag screws
> going into ipe wood (very hard) just by cranking down on them with a socket
> wrench.
>
> --JC
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

Is there a new season of Longmire starting up?

I like that show.

There's one I watched with the wife this weekend called "Foyle", I think? About 
a detective during WW2 in the UK.  Pretty interesting from a historical 
standpoint. I learned all about how the rich and privileged were able to bail 
out of London and stay in private homes/estates in the country for people with 
"medical conditions".

Dan

Sent from my iPad

> On Jun 13, 2016, at 1:52 PM, OK Don via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> This is true. We just watched "Longmire" where they make reference to a
> "Snake Slayer" pistol that I'd never heard of before. It's a double
> barreled derringer that shoots both a 3" .410 shell nd a 45 cal. round at
> the same time. It is break open, single shot though.
> 
> On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 12:47 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
>> What about with buckshot? I suspect in an enclosed space like a nightclub
>> a short barreled shotgun would be a real mess maker...
>> -Curt
>> 
>>  From: OK Don via Mercedes 
>> To: Mercedes Discussion List 
>> Cc: OK Don 
>> Sent: Monday, June 13, 2016 1:42 PM
>> Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question
>> 
>> What you really mean is clips that hold large amounts of ammunition. Any
>> gun except my single shot shotgun can kill lots of people quickly. So, no,
>> a ban on any one particular type of gun is not going to have any effect.
>> What you need is a ban on radical fundamentalists of nay stripe - they
>> should be fair game open season all year long.
>> 
>> On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 12:18 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> I guess I meant "currently legal guns that have the capability to kill
>> lots
>>> of people quickly"
>>> 
>>> On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 1:11 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes <
>>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>>> 
 They already are, fully automatic weapons have been banned for years.
 Did you perhaps mean "Scary black guns" instead?
 -Curt
 
 From: Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes 
 To: Mercedes Discussion List 
 Cc: Andrew Strasfogel ; Meade Dillon <
 dillonm...@gmail.com>
 Sent: Monday, June 13, 2016 1:05 PM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question
 
 Or maybe banning the sale of assault weapons?
 
 On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 12:22 PM, Meade Dillon via Mercedes <
 mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
 
> Well, maybe this is kind of like the simple rules for flying (stay in
>>> the
> middle of the air, avoid the boundaries).  Maybe staying the heck
>> away
 from
> large gatherings in gun-free zones is the key...


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Re: [MBZ] And I learned something today

Yup...
I'd bought stainless since the PS reservoir bolts to the battery tray, I 
thought corrosion resistance was important. Considering I probably won't keep 
this car more than 3 more years that was probably not a reasonable 
consideration.
-Curt

  From: Joel Cairo via Mercedes 
 To: mercedes@okiebenz.com 
Cc: Joel Cairo 
 Sent: Monday, June 13, 2016 2:36 PM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] And I learned something today
   
Stainless bolts don't have much yield if you crank on them, they tend to 
snap (rotational shear) pretty easily.  I have broken 1/2 SS lag screws 
going into ipe wood (very hard) just by cranking down on them with a 
socket wrench.

--JC


On 6/13/16 2:32 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes wrote:
> Working on the Jetta still, I bought a 3 1/2" stainless 3/8" bolt to attach 
> it with. The mount is a weird design so this fully threaded bolt with a but 
> halfway down is the way to go, I'll post a picture when I finally get it 
> done.Anyway yesterday I'd bought a 3" at Tractor Junk Supply but its too 
> short so today I got the 3 1/2 at my local True Value. I'd also bought nylock 
> nuts yesterday. Well today I learned that if you run the nylock nut halfway 
> down the bolt with the impact gun it'll melt the nylon a little and GLUE it 
> right to the bolt.
> Okay so I figure I'll just melt the nylon a little and while its hot turn the 
> bolt out. WRONG, I broke the bolt...
> *Sigh*
> So, new plan, go buy another $3 bolt and a couple regular nuts. In retrospect 
> I don't know why I thought a nylock nut was required, I did buy lock washers 
> too.
> In fact I suspect stainless really isn't required. I'll check and see if they 
> have regular bolts in the right size fully threaded, if they do I'll just get 
> that. Lesson learned.
> -Curt
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>
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>
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-- 
--BB

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Re: [MBZ] And I learned something today

Stainless bolts don't have much yield if you crank on them, they tend to
snap (rotational shear) pretty easily. I have broken 1/2 SS lag screws
going into ipe wood (very hard) just by cranking down on them with a
socket wrench.

--JC

On 6/13/16 2:32 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes wrote:

Working on the Jetta still, I bought a 3 1/2" stainless 3/8" bolt to attach it with.
The mount is a weird design so this fully threaded bolt with a but halfway down is the way to
go, I'll post a picture when I finally get it done.Anyway yesterday I'd bought a 3" at
Tractor Junk Supply but its too short so today I got the 3 1/2 at my local True Value. I'd
also bought nylock nuts yesterday. Well today I learned that if you run the nylock nut halfway
down the bolt with the impact gun it'll melt the nylon a little and GLUE it right to the bolt.
Okay so I figure I'll just melt the nylon a little and while its hot turn the
bolt out. WRONG, I broke the bolt...
*Sigh*
So, new plan, go buy another $3 bolt and a couple regular nuts. In retrospect I
don't know why I thought a nylock nut was required, I did buy lock washers too.
In fact I suspect stainless really isn't required. I'll check and see if they
have regular bolts in the right size fully threaded, if they do I'll just get
that. Lesson learned.
-Curt
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--
--BB

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[MBZ] And I learned something today

Working on the Jetta still, I bought a 3 1/2" stainless 3/8" bolt to attach it 
with. The mount is a weird design so this fully threaded bolt with a but 
halfway down is the way to go, I'll post a picture when I finally get it 
done.Anyway yesterday I'd bought a 3" at Tractor Junk Supply but its too short 
so today I got the 3 1/2 at my local True Value. I'd also bought nylock nuts 
yesterday. Well today I learned that if you run the nylock nut halfway down the 
bolt with the impact gun it'll melt the nylon a little and GLUE it right to the 
bolt.
Okay so I figure I'll just melt the nylon a little and while its hot turn the 
bolt out. WRONG, I broke the bolt...
*Sigh* 
So, new plan, go buy another $3 bolt and a couple regular nuts. In retrospect I 
don't know why I thought a nylock nut was required, I did buy lock washers too.
In fact I suspect stainless really isn't required. I'll check and see if they 
have regular bolts in the right size fully threaded, if they do I'll just get 
that. Lesson learned.
-Curt
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

Without me, what would you all talk about?  Someone owes me a b**r.

On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 2:22 PM, Curley McLain via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> bondar ms
>
> Well, not both at the same time, just one of each in either barrel
>
>> OK Don via Mercedes 
>> June 13, 2016 at 12:52 PMvia Postbox <
>> https://www.postbox-inc.com/?utm_source=email_medium=sumlink_campaign=reach
>> >
>> This is true. We just watched "Longmire" where they make reference to a
>> "Snake Slayer" pistol that I'd never heard of before. It's a double
>> barreled derringer that shoots both a 3" .410 shell nd a 45 cal. round at
>> the same time. It is break open, single shot though.
>>
>> On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 12:47 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes <
>>
>>
> ___
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>
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question


bondar ms

Well, not both at the same time, just one of each in either barrel

OK Don via Mercedes 
June 13, 2016 at 12:52 PMvia Postbox 


This is true. We just watched "Longmire" where they make reference to a
"Snake Slayer" pistol that I'd never heard of before. It's a double
barreled derringer that shoots both a 3" .410 shell nd a 45 cal. round at
the same time. It is break open, single shot though.

On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 12:47 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes <



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Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

Andrew is actually a super conservative, and a member of the john Bi rch 
soc iety, a elite member fo the N ra and such.  He just like to be a 
troll on this list for entertainment.  The give-away was when he talked 
about the lames tream med ia.



Mitch Haley via Mercedes 
June 13, 2016 at 12:43 PMvia Postbox 





It's amusing to see you take so much pride in your ignorance.

It must be intentional, not merely lack of information.


Mitch

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Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes 
June 13, 2016 at 12:25 PMvia Postbox 


Wow, so many of you have been radicalized by the NRA. I'm impressed.

On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 1:22 PM, Joel Cairo via Mercedes <
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Joel Cairo via Mercedes 
June 13, 2016 at 12:22 PMvia Postbox 


How'd that work in Europe?  How's that work in the south side of Chicago?

--JC




Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes 
June 13, 2016 at 12:18 PMvia Postbox 

I guess I meant "currently legal guns that have the capability to kill 
lots

of people quickly"

On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 1:11 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes <
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Curt Raymond via Mercedes 
June 13, 2016 at 12:11 PMvia Postbox 


They already are, fully automatic weapons have been banned for years.
Did you perhaps mean "Scary black guns" instead?
-Curt

From: Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes 
To: Mercedes Discussion List 
Cc: Andrew Strasfogel ; Meade Dillon 


Sent: Monday, June 13, 2016 1:05 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

Or maybe banning the sale of assault weapons?

On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 12:22 PM, Meade Dillon via Mercedes <
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

In the day, I could relaod my single nearly as  fast as someone with a 
pump.  A 1740 flint l ock mus ket could have gotten off plenty of  s 
hots in the 4 hours allowed.



OK Don via Mercedes 
June 13, 2016 at 12:42 PMvia Postbox 


What you really mean is clips that hold large amounts of ammunition. Any
gun except my single shot shotgun can kill lots of people quickly. So, no,
a ban on any one particular type of gun is not going to have any effect.
What you need is a ban on radical fundamentalists of nay stripe - they
should be fair game open season all year long.

On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 12:18 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <


Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes 
June 13, 2016 at 12:18 PMvia Postbox 

I guess I meant "currently legal guns that have the capability to kill 
lots

of people quickly"

On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 1:11 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes <
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Curt Raymond via Mercedes 
June 13, 2016 at 12:11 PMvia Postbox 


They already are, fully automatic weapons have been banned for years.
Did you perhaps mean "Scary black guns" instead?
-Curt

From: Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes 
To: Mercedes Discussion List 
Cc: Andrew Strasfogel ; Meade Dillon 


Sent: Monday, June 13, 2016 1:05 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

Or maybe banning the sale of assault weapons?

On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 12:22 PM, Meade Dillon via Mercedes <
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Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes 
June 13, 2016 at 12:05 PMvia Postbox 


Or maybe banning the sale of assault weapons?

On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 12:22 PM, Meade Dillon via Mercedes <
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Meade Dillon via Mercedes 
June 13, 2016 at 11:22 AMvia Postbox 


Well, maybe this is kind of like the simple rules for flying (stay in the
middle of the air, avoid the boundaries). Maybe staying the heck away from
large gatherings in gun-free zones is the key...

-
Max
Charleston SC

On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 11:21 AM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

The one you want for snakes is "The Judge". Same deal 45 or .410 but in a 
revolver. The proportions are ridiculous and its not really that good as a .45 
but as a short range snake remover it'd be pretty good. I know a guy who has 
one, we've shot it quite a bit.
-Curt

  From: OK Don 
 To: Curt Raymond ; Mercedes Discussion List 
 
 Sent: Monday, June 13, 2016 1:52 PM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question
   
This is true. We just watched "Longmire" where they make reference to a "Snake 
Slayer" pistol that I'd never heard of before. It's a double barreled derringer 
that shoots both a 3" .410 shell nd a 45 cal. round at the same time. It is 
break open, single shot though.
On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 12:47 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes 
 wrote:

What about with buckshot? I suspect in an enclosed space like a nightclub a 
short barreled shotgun would be a real mess maker...
-Curt

      From: OK Don via Mercedes 
 To: Mercedes Discussion List 
Cc: OK Don 
 Sent: Monday, June 13, 2016 1:42 PM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

What you really mean is clips that hold large amounts of ammunition. Any
gun except my single shot shotgun can kill lots of people quickly. So, no,
a ban on any one particular type of gun is not going to have any effect.
What you need is a ban on radical fundamentalists of nay stripe - they
should be fair game open season all year long.

On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 12:18 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> I guess I meant "currently legal guns that have the capability to kill lots
> of people quickly"
>
> On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 1:11 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
> > They already are, fully automatic weapons have been banned for years.
> > Did you perhaps mean "Scary black guns" instead?
> > -Curt
> >
> >      From: Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes 
> >  To: Mercedes Discussion List 
> > Cc: Andrew Strasfogel ; Meade Dillon <
> > dillonm...@gmail.com>
> >  Sent: Monday, June 13, 2016 1:05 PM
> >  Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question
> >
> > Or maybe banning the sale of assault weapons?
> >
> > On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 12:22 PM, Meade Dillon via Mercedes <
> > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Well, maybe this is kind of like the simple rules for flying (stay in
> the
> > > middle of the air, avoid the boundaries).  Maybe staying the heck away
> > from
> > > large gatherings in gun-free zones is the key...
> > >
> > > -
> > > Max
> > > Charleston SC
> > >
> > > On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 11:21 AM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <
> > > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > The obvious solution would have been a metal detector at the entrance
> > to
> > > > the club.  Or is that forbidden under FL law?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > ___
> > > http://www.okiebenz.com
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> > >
> > >
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> >
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> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
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> >
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> >
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> >
> >
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--
OK Don

*“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of
our people need it sorely on these accounts.”* – Mark Twain

"There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who
learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
for themselves."

WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

He should have been stopped, the system should have worked. I'm sincerely 
curious why it didn't...
-Curt

  From: Meade Dillon 
 To: Curt Raymond ; Mercedes Discussion List 

 Sent: Monday, June 13, 2016 2:06 PM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

You're making my point for me: the current laws did not (and never will) be 
able to stop an evil person from committing an evil act.  This guy had ALL the 
markers, and yet our massive law enforcement body could not prevent him from 
killing.  Clearly the present infringements on the 2nd amendment aren't 
working, I don' understand why that is so difficult to see.  I guess liberalism 
really is a mental disorder; the definition of insanity is repeated the same 
behavior and expecting a different outcome.  Adding more gun control laws and 
expecting less violence does not square with reality.

I'm fully in favor of repealing laws which infringe on the 2nd amendment.  This 
is not deregulation, this is understanding that my right to life does not come 
from the government!

-
Max
Charleston SC

On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 1:55 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes 
 wrote:

So are you complete de-regulation?
I'm not a big fan of regulation but I think there are some people who clearly 
shouldn't have guns. The shooter in Orlando for instance. If the laws currently 
on the books for background checks had been doing their job he wouldn't have 
been able to legally buy guns in the first place considering he was a known 
wife-beating anti-social, pretty much all around not-good-guy.
I don't think that instant check infringes on my rights to own a gun in any 
way. More over supporting it would be a win for the NRA since polls seem to 
show most people agree with me. Instead the NRA just looks completely 
obstructionist and their "good guy with a gun" mantra just gives the anti-gun 
crowd more fodder.
-Curt

      From: Meade Dillon 
 To: Curt Raymond ; Mercedes Discussion List 

 Sent: Monday, June 13, 2016 1:51 PM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

Well Curt, perhaps the NRA is trying to follow that part of the second 
amendment that says "shall not be infringed".  Seems to me that infringements 
on the second amendment pretty much abound these days, like in "gun free" 
zones.  Laws that prevent law-abiding citizens with concealed-carry permits 
from entering any establishment that serves alcohol has just infringed on the 
second amendment to that extent that over 100 people were shot, and about half 
died from their wounds. 

Great post on Market-Ticker today (I'm borrowing his words) on exactly this 
topic.

http://market-ticker.org/

-
Max
Charleston SC

On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 1:41 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes 
 wrote:

So no I'm not an NRA radical, in fact I think the NRA does itself a disservice 
in these situations by digging in its heels and refusing any gun control 
measures. Their refusal to sit at the table at all is dumb. They should be 
working across the aisle on background checks, it'd be something easy that 
would show them as good people working WITH the antis.

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Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question


Who'd that work in DC?


Joel Cairo via Mercedes 
June 13, 2016 at 12:22 PMvia Postbox 


How'd that work in Europe?  How's that work in the south side of Chicago?

--JC




Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes 
June 13, 2016 at 12:18 PMvia Postbox 

I guess I meant "currently legal guns that have the capability to kill 
lots

of people quickly"


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Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

Cars are used as weapons and are "currently legal and have the 
capability to kill lots

of people quickly"  You advocating banning them too?


Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes 
June 13, 2016 at 12:18 PMvia Postbox 

I guess I meant "currently legal guns that have the capability to kill 
lots

of people quickly"


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Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

You're making my point for me: the current laws did not (and never will) be
able to stop an evil person from committing an evil act.  This guy had ALL
the markers, and yet our massive law enforcement body could not prevent him
from killing.  Clearly the present infringements on the 2nd amendment
aren't working, I don' understand why that is so difficult to see.  I guess
liberalism really is a mental disorder; the definition of insanity is
repeated the same behavior and expecting a different outcome.  Adding more
gun control laws and expecting less violence does not square with reality.

I'm fully in favor of repealing laws which infringe on the 2nd amendment.
This is not deregulation, this is understanding that my right to life does
not come from the government!

-
Max
Charleston SC

On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 1:55 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> So are you complete de-regulation?
> I'm not a big fan of regulation but I think there are some people who
> clearly shouldn't have guns. The shooter in Orlando for instance. If the
> laws currently on the books for background checks had been doing their job
> he wouldn't have been able to legally buy guns in the first place
> considering he was a known wife-beating anti-social, pretty much all around
> not-good-guy.
> I don't think that instant check infringes on my rights to own a gun in
> any way. More over supporting it would be a win for the NRA since polls
> seem to show most people agree with me. Instead the NRA just looks
> completely obstructionist and their "good guy with a gun" mantra just gives
> the anti-gun crowd more fodder.
> -Curt
>
>   From: Meade Dillon 
>  To: Curt Raymond ; Mercedes Discussion List <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com>
>  Sent: Monday, June 13, 2016 1:51 PM
>  Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question
>
> Well Curt, perhaps the NRA is trying to follow that part of the second
> amendment that says "shall not be infringed".  Seems to me that
> infringements on the second amendment pretty much abound these days, like
> in "gun free" zones.  Laws that prevent law-abiding citizens with
> concealed-carry permits from entering any establishment that serves alcohol
> has just infringed on the second amendment to that extent that over 100
> people were shot, and about half died from their wounds.
>
> Great post on Market-Ticker today (I'm borrowing his words) on exactly
> this topic.
>
> http://market-ticker.org/
>
> -
> Max
> Charleston SC
>
> On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 1:41 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
> So no I'm not an NRA radical, in fact I think the NRA does itself a
> disservice in these situations by digging in its heels and refusing any gun
> control measures. Their refusal to sit at the table at all is dumb. They
> should be working across the aisle on background checks, it'd be something
> easy that would show them as good people working WITH the antis.
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question

Another nice thought from Market-Ticker:  http://market-ticker.org/

"the radio call to the cops from dispatch has been published.  *The cops
were told to take cover and not storm the building immediately despite
knowing there was a man with a gun inside the building actively shooting
people -- and they did exactly that, waiting hours while people who had
been shot were bleeding out on the floor.*

*READ THIS CAREFULLY FOLKS: The cops, with overwhelming force that they
demand the right to possess and use at their whim while at the same time
they refuse to allow you to have and possess, cowered outside in fear and
let the patrons who had been shot and were being shot die."*


I take issue with his opinion that those police were cowering outside, I'm
sure the majority were quite eager to get inside, but the point is quite
valid that many of those who died from shock and blood loss could have been
saved if the police had acted more quickly.

-
Max
Charleston SC
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Next question