Re: [MBZ] 126 Alignment
That reminds me of a story. When I worked as a mechanic I worked on a lot most all of the local fireman's car. Well there was one guy who was a big pain in the butt. One night he brought his camaro by after work and wanted the steering box replaced. Since I was young and had nothing better to do I started the job. Well I could not get the pitman arm off the steering box to save my life (new one did not have pitman arm). So I put the puller on the pitman arm and then heated up the pitman arm glowing red. A few taps with hammer and it hit the floor. All the while this fireman was standing next to me watching. So the first thing he does is reach down and pick up the pitman arm. Then he starts cursing at me telling me that I did not tell him it was hot. I looked at him and said, you're a fireman, you saw it glowing red. Tramps -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Berryman Sent: Saturday, June 17, 2006 6:34 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] 126 Alignment On Jun 16, 2006, at 8:50 PM, Constantine N. Polites wrote: If anyone has any comments on this procedure, please let me know. The nut probably would have come loose if you attacked it while still cherry-red. Johnny B. I Mac Therefore I am ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 126 Alignment
When I replace tie rod ends, etc. I will do a red neck alignment on the car. First jack up car such that front wheel spins. Then spin wheel and paint tread with what ever color spry can handy. Then use a screw driver and with wheel spinning put a mark on the tire. Note you can skip this step and just assume tire is round and the tread is symmetric if you like. Now put car back on ground, back up 5-10 feet and then drive forward. Then using tape measure between the marks on the back of tires, then measure between the marks on the front of tires. Set the front to be about 1/4 of an inch less than back. Most of the time this sets the toe close, at least close enough where you can drive it to alignment shop. Actually most of the time the toe in is perfect but the steering wheel is not centered. You can not get a good alignment on a car with tires in the air. Thus for $60 an alignment is cheaper than premature tire wear. Trampas -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Constantine N. Polites Sent: Friday, June 16, 2006 8:51 PM To: Mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: [MBZ] 126 Alignment The lock pin must be purchased from MB. I see about 1 hr of work maximum ( if you have shop facilities). Two hours if you don't have any welding equipment and have to pay someone to weld the plates on the end. I'll photograph it when I make it. Incidentally, has anyone translated the toe in values into millimeters? I used an optical transit to align a relative's car after they went to an alignment shop. The shop apparently could not loosen a particular nut so they told him it was finished and charged him. After he left the shop the problem came back again. He brought it into my plant and we lifted it with a forklift. The nut was seized and would not budge even with Kroil. I used a fine brazing tip with oxygen/acytelene. I made the nut red hot and then let it cool down. This was done four times before the nut would move. Of course it got a good coating of anti seize. Back to the issue. The method I used was to take a reading of the back rim with the transit, then project the value to the front rim and add the toe in value. The car in question was a Honda Accord. The results appear to be satisfactory. If anyone has any comments on this procedure, please let me know. I have not tried this on my 350SDL. Constantine ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
[MBZ] 126 Alignment
The lock pin must be purchased from MB. I see about 1 hr of work maximum ( if you have shop facilities). Two hours if you don't have any welding equipment and have to pay someone to weld the plates on the end. I'll photograph it when I make it. Incidentally, has anyone translated the toe in values into millimeters? I used an optical transit to align a relative's car after they went to an alignment shop. The shop apparently could not loosen a particular nut so they told him it was finished and charged him. After he left the shop the problem came back again. He brought it into my plant and we lifted it with a forklift. The nut was seized and would not budge even with Kroil. I used a fine brazing tip with oxygen/acytelene. I made the nut red hot and then let it cool down. This was done four times before the nut would move. Of course it got a good coating of anti seize. Back to the issue. The method I used was to take a reading of the back rim with the transit, then project the value to the front rim and add the toe in value. The car in question was a Honda Accord. The results appear to be satisfactory. If anyone has any comments on this procedure, please let me know. I have not tried this on my 350SDL. Constantine
Re: [MBZ] 126 Alignment
On Jun 16, 2006, at 8:50 PM, Constantine N. Polites wrote: If anyone has any comments on this procedure, please let me know. The nut probably would have come loose if you attacked it while still cherry-red. Johnny B. I Mac Therefore I am
Re: [MBZ] 126 alignment
Is the spreader bar and locking/centering screw necessary on 123 front ends? If so, at which points on the wheels are the spreader bars placed? Thanks, Gerry Archer '83 300D and 240D - Original Message - From: Marshall Booth [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List Mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 12:59 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] 126 alignment The local alignment shop says it adds a extra amount of toe-in to compensate for the spreader bar being unavailable regards If they do that with a relatively new car or one that's been recently rebuilt, there will be too much toe and if they do it on a worn one there won't be enough. That's why Mercedes REQUIRES a spreader bar - so that it can be done correctly Seems like a REALLY poor excuse to justify not buying and using a ~$50 tool. How do they justify not using the locking/centering screw to hold the steering box/wheel in the SINGLE correct position? Marshall -- Marshall Booth (who doesn't respond to unsigned questions) der Dieseling Doktor [EMAIL PROTECTED] '87 300TD 182Kmi, '85 190D 2.0 161Kmi, '87 190D 2.5 turbo 237kmi, '84 190D 2.2 229Kmi (retired) ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.8.3/361 - Release Date: 6/11/2006
[MBZ] 126 alignment
Where is this spreader bar placed on the wheels? Looking at the tire from the side as looking at a clock 12,3,6,9? Roger -- Message: 4 Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 06:46:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Curt Raymond [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [MBZ] 126 alignement To: Mercedes@okiebenz.com Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 I'm as frugal as the next guy but for $200 I'd buy one. Even at my pay rate 8 hours of fiddling with making something thats not exactly right would buy one... Never mind the fact that the only reason I'd buy one is to haul it to an alignment shop that doesn't have one so they can do the job right. I can't see them wanting to muck with something I'd invented. I also can't see my wanting to pay for that. -Curt Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2006 19:50:56 -0400 From: Constantine N. Polites [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [MBZ] 126 alignement To: Mercedes@okiebenz.com Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed I phoned Beissbarth ( the manufacturer of the spreader bar) and learned that their price is appx. $ 199 for the spreader bar. It has an MB number of 900 589 012700. This may be a rather simple item to make for a fraction of the cost. I am sure that the Beisbarth spreader has a built in torque device pre set at 90-110 NM. However, it might also be done with two short pieces of pipe with plates welded on the end. The middle can be fashioned with a 18 piece of all thread and two nuts. You will however need a torque wrench and a crows foot wrench to tighten the nut. Your thoughts on the subject.. Constantine - _ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
Re: [MBZ] 126 alignment
Roger Conlon wrote: Where is this spreader bar placed on the wheels? Looking at the tire from the side as looking at a clock 12,3,6,9? Depends on which side of the car you're on! If you're on the drivers side of a US car, the spreader bar would be on the contact the left front wheel behind the 8-9 o'clock position. If you were on the right side, it would be 3-4 o'clock. Marshall -- Marshall Booth (who doesn't respond to unsigned questions) der Dieseling Doktor [EMAIL PROTECTED] '87 300TD 182Kmi, '85 190D 2.0 161Kmi, '87 190D 2.5 turbo 237kmi, '84 190D 2.2 229Kmi (retired)
Re: [MBZ] 126 alignment
Roger Conlon wrote: Where is this spreader bar placed on the wheels? Looking at the tire from the side as looking at a clock 12,3,6,9? At the front. 3 o'clock on the right tire, 9 o'clock on the left. Mitch.
Re: [MBZ] 126 alignment
M.Afzaal Khan wrote: Hi Marshall; How much would the difference be in toe-in if the spreader bar were not used, as would be the case at most alignment shops. Very little toe-in under dynamic conditions? Impossible to predict. In a BRAND NEW car, there will be little difference. As wear in the steering system/suspension increases, the difference becomes greater and greater. That's why it's necessary - because it's almost impossible to compensate accurately once there is wear ANYWHERE in the system. Marshall -- Marshall Booth (who doesn't respond to unsigned questions) der Dieseling Doktor [EMAIL PROTECTED] '87 300TD 182Kmi, '85 190D 2.0 161Kmi, '87 190D 2.5 turbo 237kmi, '84 190D 2.2 229Kmi (retired)
Re: [MBZ] 126 alignment
On Wed, 14 Jun 2006 00:28:16 -0400 Marshall Booth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Craig McCluskey wrote: On Tue, 13 Jun 2006 07:35:13 +0500 M.Afzaal Khan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: For alignment the front wheels need to be kept apart with a bar set at 100 NM . and only then the toe- in is set correctly . This is the suspension under running conditon stress. few shops would do that mak A Newton (N) is a force, so a Newton-meter (N-m) is a torque. Is that really the units you mean? To set toe-in the front wheels must be set, then the wheels spread with 90-110 N force 20 - 25 pounds. Craig
Re: [MBZ] 126 alignment
M.Afzaal Khan wrote: The local alignment shop says it adds a extra amount of toe-in to compensate for the spreader bar being unavailable regards If they do that with a relatively new car or one that's been recently rebuilt, there will be too much toe and if they do it on a worn one there won't be enough. That's why Mercedes REQUIRES a spreader bar - so that it can be done correctly Seems like a REALLY poor excuse to justify not buying and using a ~$50 tool. How do they justify not using the locking/centering screw to hold the steering box/wheel in the SINGLE correct position? Marshall -- Marshall Booth (who doesn't respond to unsigned questions) der Dieseling Doktor [EMAIL PROTECTED] '87 300TD 182Kmi, '85 190D 2.0 161Kmi, '87 190D 2.5 turbo 237kmi, '84 190D 2.2 229Kmi (retired)
Re: [MBZ] 126 alignment
M.Afzaal Khan wrote: The local alignment shop says it adds a extra amount of toe-in to compensate for the spreader bar being unavailable Probably they're dialing in enough to make sure you don't end up with toe-out at speed. That will certainly keep the car from wandering all over the road, but if you end up with too much toe-in as a result your front tires will wear faster than they should.
Re: [MBZ] 126 alignment
M.Afzaal Khan wrote: The local alignment shop says it adds a extra amount of toe-in to compensate for the spreader bar being unavailable If the spreader bar is unavailable, tell them to buy a good strong spring loaded shower curtain rod. Not perfect, but better than nothing.
Re: [MBZ] 126 alignment
On Tue, 13 Jun 2006 07:35:13 +0500 M.Afzaal Khan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: For alignment the front wheels need to be kept apart with a bar set at 100 NM . and only then the toe- in is set correctly . This is the suspension under running conditon stress. few shops would do that mak A Newton (N) is a force, so a Newton-meter (N-m) is a torque. Is that really the units you mean? Craig
Re: [MBZ] 126 alignment
Craig McCluskey wrote: On Tue, 13 Jun 2006 07:35:13 +0500 M.Afzaal Khan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: For alignment the front wheels need to be kept apart with a bar set at 100 NM . and only then the toe- in is set correctly . This is the suspension under running conditon stress. few shops would do that mak A Newton (N) is a force, so a Newton-meter (N-m) is a torque. Is that really the units you mean? To set toe-in the front wheels must be set, then the wheels spread with 90-110 N force and the toe-in reset. If NOT done this way, the system WILL not be properly aligned (although it may be adequate). Even the makers of rather elaborate alignment devices in Germany acknowledge this and that failure to use a spreader bar degrades the accuracy of setting toe on both Mercedes and some other makes that do not call for a spreader bar. Marshall -- Marshall Booth (who doesn't respond to unsigned questions) der Dieseling Doktor [EMAIL PROTECTED] '87 300TD 182Kmi, '85 190D 2.0 161Kmi, '87 190D 2.5 turbo 237kmi, '84 190D 2.2 229Kmi (retired)
[MBZ] 126 alignment
For alignment the front wheels need to be kept apart with a bar set at 100 NM . and only then the toe- in is set correctly . This is the suspension under running conditon stress. few shops would do that mak . This way I will not have to worry about the front end for another 50-60k miles, until it needs ball joints. Most shops would never hear of doing this as that parts were not all bad yet. I have project cars I enjoy working on, and then I have the daily drivers which I hate to work on. Thus I want the daily drivers all fixed and not constantly in need of repair. Trampas Cars become worn out when you do not fix the parts that are worn out. It has over 300k miles on it, thus it has to be a good car otherwise it would not have gotten that far. - Used Car Dealer -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Neal Kramarcy Sent: Monday, June 12, 2006 11:54 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Tires and Alignment in Raleigh NC Have you tried Chapel Hill Tire on Franklin Street in Chapel Hill? Neal Trampas wrote: Well I use an impact on my tires all the time The W126 requires some special alignment machine, or so I have been told. The problem is I only know of one indy in the area that does alignments and you could not pay me to take my car to them. Thus I was hoping someone knew of another shop. Trampas -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mitch Haley Sent: Monday, June 12, 2006 11:03 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Tires and Alignment in Raleigh NC Tires: Probably any place other than the dealership which actually uses a torque wrench. Alignment: I'm thinking dealer or an indy alignment shop that REALLY knows MBZ. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.8.3/361 - Release Date: 6/11/2006
