Re: [MBZ] Barn find of the century?

[Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes]

I need to find a FORTRAN compiler or app or whatever that can run on my Macs. I 
loved programming in it. 

I got really good at FORTRAN back in college. One summer at nasa one of the 
(women) programmers would sit with me as I tried to understand error dumps. She 
showed me how to trace memory locations where the program bombed and to trace 
that back to lines of code or particular calculations and values. It made 
debugging s easy. I had never seen any manual that went into that but she 
was a whiz at it.  I became a go-to guy since I could look at a dump and figure 
out in about 30seconds where it gorked.

I wish these damn cars were so easy!!! 

--FT
Sent from iPhone

> On Feb 10, 2020, at 12:41 PM, Allan Streib via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Craig via Mercedes  writes:
> 
>> The office I was given when I worked at JPL the summer after my junior
>> year at Caltech had a copy of the Fortran manual on the bookshelf. I
>> decided to learn Fortran, since in my freshman year I had to use a program
>> called CITran (an adaptation of Fortran) to analyze physics lab
>> experiments. It had a short manual and was easy to use. So, I picked up
>> the Fortran manual and started reading. A couple of days later, I put it
>> back on the shelf and commented, "You can't learn Fortran that way."
> 
> I have always found that one learns a programming language by writing
> programs in it. The manuals are for reference, not for reading like a
> book. Even the books that are meant to teach the language (with
> examples, etc.) aren't much good if you just read them. You need to
> write the code, debug your mistakes, etc.
> 
> After a while when you understand abstract programming concepts, you can
> read about a new language and understand how its features work and when
> to use them. But you still need to write code in that language to really
> learn it.
> 
> Allan
> 
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Re: [MBZ] Barn find of the century?

[Greg Fiorentino via Mercedes]

When I lived on Lon Gisland and worked at JFKIA I used to listen to audio books 
on cassettes while commuting. I was listening to The Flight of the Intruder, 
and he had just been shot down and an enemy patrol was nearing his 
locationand I sailed right past my exit and into Brooklyn.

Greg

-Original Message-
From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Curley 
McLain via Mercedes
Sent: Sunday, February 09, 2020 6:32 PM
To: Dan Penoff via Mercedes
Cc: Curley McLain
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Barn find of the century?

I like audio books for trips of 500 to 1000 miles.   but the cd player 
in the van broke years ago, so no audiobooks.

> Dan Penoff via Mercedes <mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>
> February 9, 2020 at 1:32 PM
> I was never a big fan of audiobooks, but I like podcasts.

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Re: [MBZ] Barn find of the century?

[Allan Streib via Mercedes]

Craig via Mercedes  writes:

> The office I was given when I worked at JPL the summer after my junior
> year at Caltech had a copy of the Fortran manual on the bookshelf. I
> decided to learn Fortran, since in my freshman year I had to use a program
> called CITran (an adaptation of Fortran) to analyze physics lab
> experiments. It had a short manual and was easy to use. So, I picked up
> the Fortran manual and started reading. A couple of days later, I put it
> back on the shelf and commented, "You can't learn Fortran that way."

I have always found that one learns a programming language by writing
programs in it. The manuals are for reference, not for reading like a
book. Even the books that are meant to teach the language (with
examples, etc.) aren't much good if you just read them. You need to
write the code, debug your mistakes, etc.

After a while when you understand abstract programming concepts, you can
read about a new language and understand how its features work and when
to use them. But you still need to write code in that language to really
learn it.

Allan

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Re: [MBZ] Barn find of the century?

[Craig via Mercedes]

On Sun, 9 Feb 2020 15:56:48 -0500 Dan Penoff via Mercedes
 wrote:

> Totally agree.
> 
> I am a visual learner, and while I tried and tried to get a tool we use
> for searching called “regex” down by reading various manuals and online
> tutorials, the light didn’t turn on until I sat through an online class
> using practical applications of it. As I saw the instructor putting
> things together on the screen it started to finally make sense.

The office I was given when I worked at JPL the summer after my junior
year at Caltech had a copy of the Fortran manual on the bookshelf. I
decided to learn Fortran, since in my freshman year I had to use a program
called CITran (an adaptation of Fortran) to analyze physics lab
experiments. It had a short manual and was easy to use. So, I picked up
the Fortran manual and started reading. A couple of days later, I put it
back on the shelf and commented, "You can't learn Fortran that way."


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] Barn find of the century?

[Clay via Mercedes]

I consider writing extended interpretations of the stories in posting video, 
but then that turns into my opinion, which robs you of coming to your own 
conclusions.  There are some on list who would find wildly divergent meanings 
from the same source material.

clay

> On Feb 9, 2020, at 9:25 AM, Max Dillon via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> 
> Yes, evidence of the decline of civilization. Too many "news" websites do 
> this, and other sites as well. They write a headline, maybe a brief intro, 
> and then link to a video. I rarely watch the video.
> 
> Max Dillon
> Charleston SC

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Re: [MBZ] Barn find of the century?

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

Bingo!

The last math class I had in kolledge, the prof (first math class with a 
prof.) early on showed us how to use differential equations to find area 
of complex shapes, like aircraft wings.   It woulda made all the 
calculus a lot easier to learn if SOMEONE had shown us some practical 
application of what we were trying to learn.


But we digress.  The "barn find" info just needed to convey a few 
facts.   Who, what, where, when,  why.   That info is better conveyed in 
words.

dan--- via Mercedes 
February 9, 2020 at 3:40 PM
Most importantly, practical application. Being able to relate the 
activity to a known process or skill (I believe) makes it that much 
easier to learn and understand.


-D




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Re: [MBZ] Barn find of the century?

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

Spaced repetition and hands on training is the basis of adult ed.    
LIve training is always the best.   Curt and Dan are expert trainers for 
hands on, Live.


Yes, Max, a combination or reading, studying, and hands on instruction, 
and then implementing the new skills is a great way to convey knowledge.


However the video ( I didn't watch) that started my question was nothing 
more than to convey a few facts.   In that case, all I need is a little 
text to convey the facts.



Meade Dillon via Mercedes 
February 9, 2020 at 3:12 PM
Perhaps it is the combination of time spent reading / studying which is
followed by visual or hands-on instruction that brings about the
transformation?
-
Max
Charleston SC



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Re: [MBZ] Barn find of the century?

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

I like audio books for trips of 500 to 1000 miles.   but the cd player 
in the van broke years ago, so no audiobooks.



Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
February 9, 2020 at 1:32 PM
I was never a big fan of audiobooks, but I like podcasts.


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Re: [MBZ] Barn find of the century?

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

I agree, that there are places where video is good, or even better.

But I tend to remember Dragnet more and more:   "Just the facts, Ma'am."



Rick Knoble via Mercedes 
February 9, 2020 at 1:06 PM

Both types of media have their place. For facts, knowledge, and some 
entertainment, reading is my preference. For some hands on type 
education, I find video to be best. I always struggled with written 
assembly instructions (insert tab a into slot b) when I was much 
younger. Watching someone do it, even at double speed, the light goes 
on in my head and I say to myself "ooohhh, that's how it's done". 
Podcasts and audiobooks have their place too. It's pretty darn hard to 
read a book while you're driving.


Rick


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Re: [MBZ] Barn find of the century?

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

too bad.    I'd rather not have the ONP NOT blow her top!

Yeah, I rarely look at fakebuch links, unless subsequent comments stir 
interest, and I rarely watch linked videos.   Most of them take 5+ 
minutes to try to impart what I could read in 15 to 30 seconds.


Pierre's rants are interesting, but generally take too much time to get 
the message across.

Bob Rentfro via Mercedes 
February 9, 2020 at 12:37 PM
Max is correct. No one wants to read anymore. Even within the realm of 
training humans to run the big old nuke plant, what used to be neat 
and tidy lesson plans on systems and components have now evolved into 
YouTube type videos or VR sessions.

I’m not a fan. I’m a dinosaur. Time to retire for reals.

Bob R


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Re: [MBZ] Barn find of the century?

[dan--- via Mercedes]

Most importantly, practical application. Being able to relate the activity to a 
known process or skill (I believe) makes it that much easier to learn and 
understand.

-D

> On Feb 9, 2020, at 4:12 PM, Meade Dillon via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> Perhaps it is the combination of time spent reading / studying which is
> followed by visual or hands-on instruction that brings about the
> transformation?
> -
> Max
> Charleston SC
> 
> 
> On Sun, Feb 9, 2020 at 3:57 PM Dan Penoff via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
>> Totally agree.
>> 
>> I am a visual learner, and while I tried and tried to get a tool we use
>> for searching called “regex” down by reading various manuals and online
>> tutorials, the light didn’t turn on until I sat through an online class
>> using practical applications of it. As I saw the instructor putting things
>> together on the screen it started to finally make sense.
>> 
>> -D
>> 
>>> On Feb 9, 2020, at 3:39 PM, M. Mitchell Marmel via Mercedes <
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> For what it's worth, I started using GIMP about a decade ago.  All the
>>> online instruction manuals didn't do me a lick of good.  But a one hour
>>> seminar at a convention, where folks demonstrated HOW to use the app,
>> and
>>> I was working it like a pro!
>>> 
>>> So, there IS use for monkey see, monkey do, still!
>>> 
>>> -MMM-
>>> ___
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>> 
>>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>> 
>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>> 
>> 
>> 
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>> 
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Re: [MBZ] Barn find of the century?

[Meade Dillon via Mercedes]

Perhaps it is the combination of time spent reading / studying which is
followed by visual or hands-on instruction that brings about the
transformation?
-
Max
Charleston SC


On Sun, Feb 9, 2020 at 3:57 PM Dan Penoff via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Totally agree.
>
> I am a visual learner, and while I tried and tried to get a tool we use
> for searching called “regex” down by reading various manuals and online
> tutorials, the light didn’t turn on until I sat through an online class
> using practical applications of it. As I saw the instructor putting things
> together on the screen it started to finally make sense.
>
> -D
>
> > On Feb 9, 2020, at 3:39 PM, M. Mitchell Marmel via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> > For what it's worth, I started using GIMP about a decade ago.  All the
> > online instruction manuals didn't do me a lick of good.  But a one hour
> > seminar at a convention, where folks demonstrated HOW to use the app,
> and
> > I was working it like a pro!
> >
> > So, there IS use for monkey see, monkey do, still!
> >
> > -MMM-
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> >
> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >
>
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Re: [MBZ] Barn find of the century?

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

Totally agree.

I am a visual learner, and while I tried and tried to get a tool we use for 
searching called “regex” down by reading various manuals and online tutorials, 
the light didn’t turn on until I sat through an online class using practical 
applications of it. As I saw the instructor putting things together on the 
screen it started to finally make sense.

-D

> On Feb 9, 2020, at 3:39 PM, M. Mitchell Marmel via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> For what it's worth, I started using GIMP about a decade ago.  All the
> online instruction manuals didn't do me a lick of good.  But a one hour
> seminar at a convention, where folks demonstrated HOW to use the app,  and
> I was working it like a pro!
> 
> So, there IS use for monkey see, monkey do, still!
> 
> -MMM-
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> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
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Re: [MBZ] Barn find of the century?

[M. Mitchell Marmel via Mercedes]

For what it's worth, I started using GIMP about a decade ago.  All the
online instruction manuals didn't do me a lick of good.  But a one hour
seminar at a convention, where folks demonstrated HOW to use the app,  and
I was working it like a pro!

So, there IS use for monkey see, monkey do, still!

-MMM-
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Re: [MBZ] Barn find of the century?

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

I was never a big fan of audiobooks, but I like podcasts. There’s a realy good 
daily one from the University of Houston called “The Engines of Our Ingenuity” 
and is done by their college of Engineering. It’s about how our culture is 
formed by human creativity. It’s typically about 4-5 minutes long and does a 
great job packing the information into such a short format. It’s been around as 
a radio short since 1988.

https://uh.edu/engines/ 

Stuff You Should Know is also pretty good, too, although it’s a long format 
show, so it takes an hour or so of commitment for most programs. They have a 
short version that’s good, too. I just listened to an episode about the Tulsa 
race riot of 1921. Pretty amazing stuff.

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/stuff-you-should-know/id278981407 


-D


> On Feb 9, 2020, at 2:06 PM, Rick Knoble via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
>> No one wants to read anymore. Even within the >realm of training humans to 
>> run the big old nuke >plant, what used to be neat and tidy lesson plans on 
>> >systems and components have now evolved into >YouTube type videos or VR 
>> sessions.
> 
> Both types of media have their place. For facts,  knowledge, and some 
> entertainment, reading is my preference. For some hands on type education, I 
> find video to be best. I always struggled with written assembly instructions 
> (insert tab a into slot b) when I was much younger. Watching someone do it, 
> even at double speed, the light goes on in my head and I say to myself 
> "ooohhh, that's how it's done". Podcasts and audiobooks have their place too. 
> It's pretty darn hard to read a book while you're driving. 
> 
> Rick
> 
> 
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> 
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Re: [MBZ] Barn find of the century?

[Rick Knoble via Mercedes]

>No one wants to read anymore. Even within the >realm of training humans to run 
>the big old nuke >plant, what used to be neat and tidy lesson plans on 
>>systems and components have now evolved into >YouTube type videos or VR 
>sessions.

Both types of media have their place. For facts,  knowledge, and some 
entertainment, reading is my preference. For some hands on type education, I 
find video to be best. I always struggled with written assembly instructions 
(insert tab a into slot b) when I was much younger. Watching someone do it, 
even at double speed, the light goes on in my head and I say to myself "ooohhh, 
that's how it's done". Podcasts and audiobooks have their place too. It's 
pretty darn hard to read a book while you're driving. 

Rick


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Re: [MBZ] Barn find of the century?

[Bob Rentfro via Mercedes]

Max is correct. No one wants to read anymore. Even within the realm of training 
humans to run the big old nuke plant, what used to be neat and tidy lesson 
plans on systems and components have now evolved into YouTube type videos or VR 
sessions.
I’m not a fan. I’m a dinosaur. Time to retire for reals. 

Bob R

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 9, 2020, at 11:26 AM, Max Dillon via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> 
> Yes, evidence of the decline of civilization. Too many "news" websites do 
> this, and other sites as well. They write a headline, maybe a brief intro, 
> and then link to a video. I rarely watch the video.
> 
> Max Dillon
> Charleston SC
> 
> Feb 9, 2020 12:15:20 PM Curley McLain via Mercedes :
> 
>> Does anyone else find it irritating that nobody wants to write the
>> story, they just want to make you suffer through some video?
>> 
>> 
>>> Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes 
>>> February 9, 2020 at 8:51 AM
>>> 
>>> The video is really interesting. Kinda disturbing historical content
>>> though.
>>> 
>>> https://drivetribe.com/p/barn-find-of-the-century-EaRGQ3QBRniXfRHqxniQkQ
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --FT
>>> 
>> 
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Re: [MBZ] Barn find of the century?

[Max Dillon via Mercedes]

Yes, evidence of the decline of civilization. Too many "news" websites do this, 
and other sites as well. They write a headline, maybe a brief intro, and then 
link to a video. I rarely watch the video.

Max Dillon
Charleston SC

Feb 9, 2020 12:15:20 PM Curley McLain via Mercedes :

> Does anyone else find it irritating that nobody wants to write the
> story, they just want to make you suffer through some video?
> 
> 
> > Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes 
> > February 9, 2020 at 8:51 AM
> > 
> > The video is really interesting. Kinda disturbing historical content
> > though.
> > 
> > https://drivetribe.com/p/barn-find-of-the-century-EaRGQ3QBRniXfRHqxniQkQ
> > 
> > 
> > --FT
> > 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] Barn find of the century?

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

Does anyone else find it irritating that nobody wants to write the 
story, they just want to make you suffer through some video?



Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes 
February 9, 2020 at 8:51 AM

The video is really interesting. Kinda disturbing historical content 
though.


https://drivetribe.com/p/barn-find-of-the-century-EaRGQ3QBRniXfRHqxniQkQ


--FT


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[MBZ] Barn find of the century?

[Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes]

The video is really interesting. Kinda disturbing historical content though. 

https://drivetribe.com/p/barn-find-of-the-century-EaRGQ3QBRniXfRHqxniQkQ


--FT
Sent from iPhone

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