Re: [MBZ] More shop heater

[Randy Bennell via Mercedes]

On 04/01/2016 9:31 PM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes wrote:



On January 4, 2016 at 10:07 PM Curt Raymond via Mercedes
 wrote:


Same problem, you're not going to have much run time on a single 100# bottle.
The filled bottle weighs way more than 100# too.
Of course it'll always run out on a cold night when you're trying to get
something done...

The tank discharges gas, which means it gets cold from liquid boiling off inside
it when the furnace runs. Might not be a problem in Okie temps, but when it's
-30 outside, the tank has to be reasonably large in comparison to the furnace or
you get into boiling point problems and loss of pressure.

___


With the horizontal tanks that have some space under them, one puts 
straw bales around them and a trouble light underneath them to keep the 
gas flowing in the coldest weather.

Works for fuel oil tanks too.
Fuel oil will get to where it won't flow, which is something the diesel 
folks know, I guess. We had fuel oil heat back when we lived out at the 
lake and I can remember the heat going off when it got really cold one 
New Year's Eve (1973 or 1974 I believe). I got up and dressed and went 
out and banged on the tank to get it flowing again. Had hardly got back 
in bed when it quit again. Dug out a trouble light and extension cord 
and hung the trouble light on the valve coming out of the 250 gallon 
tank and all was well for the rest of the night.


RB

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Re: [MBZ] More shop heater

[Randy Bennell via Mercedes]

On 04/01/2016 8:35 PM, Curly McLain via Mercedes wrote:

Mitch sez:

The tank discharges gas, which means it gets cold from liquid boiling 
off inside
it when the furnace runs. Might not be a problem in Okie temps, but 
when it's
-30 outside, the tank has to be reasonably large in comparison to the 
furnace or

you get into boiling point problems and loss of pressure.


yes, most tanks I am familiar with are 1000 gal.  some small use 
places had 500 gal. tanks.


___

Is the 500 gallon tank, the one that is referred to as a pig?
Basically a bigger vertical tank rather than the longer horizontal tanks.

RB

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Re: [MBZ] More shop heater

[OK Don via Mercedes]

No, it's a horizontal tank. It's what I see mostly around here in the
country - they all look like mine. I don't know if they call it a pig,
though it is expensive to feed here in OK.

On Tue, Jan 5, 2016 at 11:01 AM, Randy Bennell via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
__
Is the 500 gallon tank, the one that is referred to as a pig?
Basically a bigger vertical tank rather than the longer horizontal tanks.

RB

-- 
OK Don

*“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of
our people need it sorely on these accounts.”* – Mark Twain

"There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who
learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
for themselves."

WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] More shop heater

[fmiser via Mercedes]

> Kaleb wrote:
> 
> I pulled the nozzles out of one of the heaters today,
> Sticker on the heater says nozzle size 23 (23 what not sure.)

I think it's standard for the orifice size to be listed in
drill number size.

> I found the manual online and it shows orifice size 23
> natural gas and propane 40.

Here is a handy reference for LP gas.
http://www.bergquistinc.com/sites/default/files/academy_guides/Handbook.pdf


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Re: [MBZ] More shop heater

[Craig via Mercedes]

On Mon, 4 Jan 2016 13:45:59 -0600 fmiser via Mercedes
 wrote:

> Here is a handy reference for LP gas.
> http://www.bergquistinc.com/sites/default/files/academy_guides/Handbook.pdf

Thank you, Philip, for the reference.


Craig

P.S. Have you been affected by the flooding in Missouri?

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Re: [MBZ] More shop heater

[Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes]

Yea most people lease them I think.

On 1/4/2016 6:00 PM, OK Don via Mercedes wrote:

Own it. It's my back-up energy source. I didn't know that they leased
propane tanks . . .

On Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 3:31 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:


Do you own the tank or lease it?







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Re: [MBZ] More shop heater

[Curly McLain via Mercedes]

Yea most people lease them I think.



You are better off to own.  Then you can buy propane whenever you 
want, from whoever you want to buy from.


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Re: [MBZ] More shop heater

[Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes]

Do you own the tank or lease it?

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 3, 2016, at 9:16 PM, OK Don via Mercedes  wrote:
> 
> Well, if it's too much heat for you, maybe I need one for the hangar - 2000
> sq. ft. I have a 500 gallon propane tank that I only use for the gas grill
> now . . .
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> OK Don
> 
> *“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of
> our people need it sorely on these accounts.”* – Mark Twain
> 
> "There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who
> learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
> for themselves."
> 
> WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
> 2013 F150, 18 mpg
> 2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg
> 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] More shop heater

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

Buy one outright, it will be cheaper in the long run.

We bought the tank that was at the house we built down here, and we saved a 
bundle over time.  The lease thing is a screw and also prevents you from buying 
fuel from another supplier.  That was one of the things that helped pay for our 
tank - I called around and got the best price when it needed to be filled.

I just checked a few suppliers online and a 250 gallon above ground tank can be 
had for between $500 and $800.  You can buy smaller tanks yourself - my local 
Ace has tanks up to 100 lbs., which are around $125.00, I believe.   I looked 
at buying one for our outdoor oven, but I don’t have a way to transport it to 
be filled.


Dan


> On Jan 4, 2016, at 7:02 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Yea most people lease them I think.
> 
> On 1/4/2016 6:00 PM, OK Don via Mercedes wrote:
>> Own it. It's my back-up energy source. I didn't know that they leased
>> propane tanks . . .
>> 
>> On Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 3:31 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes <
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Do you own the tank or lease it?
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
> 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] More shop heater

[OK Don via Mercedes]

Own it. It's my back-up energy source. I didn't know that they leased
propane tanks . . .

On Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 3:31 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Do you own the tank or lease it?
>
>


-- 
OK Don

*“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of
our people need it sorely on these accounts.”* – Mark Twain

"There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who
learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
for themselves."

WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] More shop heater

[Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes]

2 gal an hour. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 4, 2016, at 7:16 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> Didn't you say it was like 4 gal an hour? 100# can only has 25 gallons...
> 
> 
> Curt
> 
> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
> 
> From:"Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes" <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
> Date:Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 8:14 PM
> Subject:Re: [MBZ] More shop heater
> 
> I see used 4-500 gallon ones here for $4-500. I am just worried about them 
> either being leased or leaking. Do these things leak?  I'm thinking I'm 
> probably going with my original play and get a 100lb portable cylinder. 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Jan 4, 2016, at 7:07 PM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com> 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On January 4, 2016 at 6:13 PM Curly McLain via Mercedes
>>> <mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> You are better off to own.  Then you can buy propane whenever you 
>>> want, from whoever you want to buy from.
>> 
>> The place I buy from charges an extra .20 per gallon for using their tank. 
>> Everybody gets at least .10 for it. 
>> If you can get a used tank for a dollar a nominal gallon, it'll never
>> depreciate. 
>> Looks like a new 500 is less than $1000 again at the current price of steel. 
>> 
>> Mitch
>> 
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> 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] More shop heater

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

There are only two suppliers in the Tampa area that I know of, Hillsboro Gas 
and TECO, our electrical utility.

When we moved into this house there was a TECO branded tank on the side of the 
house that fed the outdoor oven.  I called TECO to see what would be involved 
in getting it filled.

They wanted over $200 just to come out and inspect/leak test the tank.

I read the certification serial number and date to them over the phone, as it 
was still good.  They wanted nothing of this, they refused to fill the tank 
unless I paid them to do what I did and nothing more (understand that this has 
nothing to do with anything but the tank itself, no regulator, no lines, nada.)

I hung up on them and went to my local ACE Hardware, who had portable tanks up 
to 100 pounds.  I bought a 40 pound tank, which cost me like $65, and I take it 
to them to fill it.  Costs me $32 the last time I filled it, and it usually 
lasts anywhere from 7-8 months.  I would have gotten a larger tank but I don’t 
have a way to transport a larger one upright, which is a requirement for 
transporting them.

Dan

 
> On Jan 4, 2016, at 8:13 PM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> I forgot to say, everybody around here claims it's illegal for them to deliver
> to me until I pay their tech to leak test my system. The place I'm using did 
> it
> for free, the others want $50 or more added to the cost of the first 
> delivery. I
> guess it's a new customer disincentive program. 
> 
> Mitch. 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] More shop heater

[Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes]

Yes per heater. I'm planning on only running one of them.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 4, 2016, at 7:43 PM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>> On January 4, 2016 at 8:24 PM "Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes"
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> 2 gal an hour.
> 
> Per heater?
> A gallon is something like 95k BTU. 
> 
> Mitch. 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] More shop heater

[Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes]

I see used 4-500 gallon ones here for $4-500. I am just worried about them 
either being leased or leaking. Do these things leak?  I'm thinking I'm 
probably going with my original play and get a 100lb portable cylinder. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 4, 2016, at 7:07 PM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>> On January 4, 2016 at 6:13 PM Curly McLain via Mercedes
>>  wrote:
> 
>> You are better off to own.  Then you can buy propane whenever you 
>> want, from whoever you want to buy from.
> 
> The place I buy from charges an extra .20 per gallon for using their tank. 
> Everybody gets at least .10 for it. 
> If you can get a used tank for a dollar a nominal gallon, it'll never
> depreciate. 
> Looks like a new 500 is less than $1000 again at the current price of steel. 
> 
> Mitch
> 
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Re: [MBZ] More shop heater

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

> On January 4, 2016 at 8:24 PM "Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes"
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> 2 gal an hour. 
>

Per heater?
A gallon is something like 95k BTU. 

Mitch. 

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Re: [MBZ] More shop heater

[Curly McLain via Mercedes]

Mitch sez:

The tank discharges gas, which means it gets cold from liquid 
boiling off inside

it when the furnace runs. Might not be a problem in Okie temps, but when it's
-30 outside, the tank has to be reasonably large in comparison to 
the furnace or

you get into boiling point problems and loss of pressure.


yes, most tanks I am familiar with are 1000 gal.  some small use 
places had 500 gal. tanks.


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Re: [MBZ] More shop heater

[Peter Frederick via Mercedes]

We have a 500 gal. tank that use to run the furnace and hot water  
heater.  Switched to natural gas when it went through 35 or so years  
ago.  Still use it for the shop (not attached to the house) and one  
baseboard heater in the addition I don't use much.


I suspect I will have to have it inspected before I can get it filled  
this year, it's been a while and I don't think the original company  
does propane anymore.


Peter

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Re: [MBZ] More shop heater

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

Same problem, you're not going to have much run time on a single 100# bottle. 
The filled bottle weighs way more than 100# too.
Of course it'll always run out on a cold night when you're trying to get 
something done...

-Curt 

  From: Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
 To: Mercedes Discussion List <mercedes@okiebenz.com> 
Cc: Kaleb C. Striplin <ka...@striplin.net>
 Sent: Monday, January 4, 2016 8:24 PM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] More shop heater
   
2 gal an hour. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 4, 2016, at 7:16 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> Didn't you say it was like 4 gal an hour? 100# can only has 25 gallons...
> 
> 
> Curt
> 
> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
> 
> From:"Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes" <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
> Date:Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 8:14 PM
> Subject:Re: [MBZ] More shop heater
> 
> I see used 4-500 gallon ones here for $4-500. I am just worried about them 
> either being leased or leaking. Do these things leak?  I'm thinking I'm 
> probably going with my original play and get a 100lb portable cylinder. 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Jan 4, 2016, at 7:07 PM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com> 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On January 4, 2016 at 6:13 PM Curly McLain via Mercedes
>>> <mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> You are better off to own.  Then you can buy propane whenever you 
>>> want, from whoever you want to buy from.
>> 
>> The place I buy from charges an extra .20 per gallon for using their tank. 
>> Everybody gets at least .10 for it. 
>> If you can get a used tank for a dollar a nominal gallon, it'll never
>> depreciate. 
>> Looks like a new 500 is less than $1000 again at the current price of steel. 
>> 
>> Mitch
>> 
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>> 
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>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] More shop heater

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

> On January 4, 2016 at 6:13 PM Curly McLain via Mercedes
>  wrote:

> You are better off to own.  Then you can buy propane whenever you 
> want, from whoever you want to buy from.

The place I buy from charges an extra .20 per gallon for using their tank. 
Everybody gets at least .10 for it. 
If you can get a used tank for a dollar a nominal gallon, it'll never
depreciate. 
Looks like a new 500 is less than $1000 again at the current price of steel. 

Mitch

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Re: [MBZ] More shop heater

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

> On January 4, 2016 at 6:13 PM Curly McLain via Mercedes
>  wrote:

> You are better off to own.  Then you can buy propane whenever you 
> want, from whoever you want to buy from.

I forgot to say, everybody around here claims it's illegal for them to deliver
to me until I pay their tech to leak test my system. The place I'm using did it
for free, the others want $50 or more added to the cost of the first delivery. I
guess it's a new customer disincentive program. 

Mitch. 

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Re: [MBZ] More shop heater

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

We were going to go to camp last week. All summer I'd kind of fretted that it'd 
be real cold and we'd have problems with the 20# propane tanks not keeping up 
with the lights or cookstove (woodstove for heat) but around Christmas they 
were still just at the freezing point with no snow. 
I decided not to go so of course Tuesday they got 2 feet...
-Curt

 

  From: Mitch Haley <mi...@mitchellhaley.com>
 To: Curt Raymond <curtlud...@yahoo.com>; Mercedes Discussion List 
<mercedes@okiebenz.com> 
 Sent: Monday, January 4, 2016 10:31 PM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] More shop heater
   


> On January 4, 2016 at 10:07 PM Curt Raymond via Mercedes
> <mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> Same problem, you're not going to have much run time on a single 100# bottle.
> The filled bottle weighs way more than 100# too.
> Of course it'll always run out on a cold night when you're trying to get
> something done...

The tank discharges gas, which means it gets cold from liquid boiling off inside
it when the furnace runs. Might not be a problem in Okie temps, but when it's
-30 outside, the tank has to be reasonably large in comparison to the furnace or
you get into boiling point problems and loss of pressure. 


  
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Re: [MBZ] More shop heater

[Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes]

I will probably just look for a bigger non portable tank then.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 4, 2016, at 9:07 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> Same problem, you're not going to have much run time on a single 100# bottle. 
> The filled bottle weighs way more than 100# too.
> Of course it'll always run out on a cold night when you're trying to get 
> something done...
> 
> -Curt 
> 
>  From: Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
> To: Mercedes Discussion List <mercedes@okiebenz.com> 
> Cc: Kaleb C. Striplin <ka...@striplin.net>
> Sent: Monday, January 4, 2016 8:24 PM
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] More shop heater
> 
> 2 gal an hour. 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Jan 4, 2016, at 7:16 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes 
>> <mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Didn't you say it was like 4 gal an hour? 100# can only has 25 gallons...
>> 
>> 
>> Curt
>> 
>> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
>> 
>> From:"Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes" <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
>> Date:Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 8:14 PM
>> Subject:Re: [MBZ] More shop heater
>> 
>> I see used 4-500 gallon ones here for $4-500. I am just worried about them 
>> either being leased or leaking. Do these things leak?  I'm thinking I'm 
>> probably going with my original play and get a 100lb portable cylinder. 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Jan 4, 2016, at 7:07 PM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes 
>>> <mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On January 4, 2016 at 6:13 PM Curly McLain via Mercedes
>>>> <mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> You are better off to own.  Then you can buy propane whenever you 
>>>> want, from whoever you want to buy from.
>>> 
>>> The place I buy from charges an extra .20 per gallon for using their tank. 
>>> Everybody gets at least .10 for it. 
>>> If you can get a used tank for a dollar a nominal gallon, it'll never
>>> depreciate. 
>>> Looks like a new 500 is less than $1000 again at the current price of 
>>> steel. 
>>> 
>>> Mitch
>>> 
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>> 
>> 
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Re: [MBZ] More shop heater

[Curly McLain via Mercedes]

 On Jan 4, 2016, at 9:07 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes 
 wrote:


 Same problem, you're not going to have much run time on a single 
100# bottle. The filled bottle weighs way more than 100# too.
 Of course it'll always run out on a cold night when you're trying 
to get something done...



 > -Curt
 >


That is why most 100lb setups have 2 tanks.  run one empty then run 
the other while you get the other filled/replaced.


In N WI right now they want about $130 to exchange 100# bottles.

It is a ripoff.  but at $20 for a 20 lb bottle, it is not that far 
off.  Buck a pound, plus 30 to deliver and change.


OH! and if you conserve, they charge you $135 for "tank rental" 
because you didn't use enough gas.


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Re: [MBZ] More shop heater

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

Didn't you say it was like 4 gal an hour? 100# can only has 25 gallons...


Curt

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android

From:"Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes" <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
Date:Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 8:14 PM
Subject:Re: [MBZ] More shop heater

I see used 4-500 gallon ones here for $4-500. I am just worried about them 
either being leased or leaking. Do these things leak?  I'm thinking I'm 
probably going with my original play and get a 100lb portable cylinder. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 4, 2016, at 7:07 PM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>> On January 4, 2016 at 6:13 PM Curly McLain via Mercedes
>> <mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
>> You are better off to own.  Then you can buy propane whenever you 
>> want, from whoever you want to buy from.
> 
> The place I buy from charges an extra .20 per gallon for using their tank. 
> Everybody gets at least .10 for it. 
> If you can get a used tank for a dollar a nominal gallon, it'll never
> depreciate. 
> Looks like a new 500 is less than $1000 again at the current price of steel. 
> 
> Mitch
> 
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Re: [MBZ] More shop heater

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

> On January 4, 2016 at 10:07 PM Curt Raymond via Mercedes
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> Same problem, you're not going to have much run time on a single 100# bottle.
> The filled bottle weighs way more than 100# too.
> Of course it'll always run out on a cold night when you're trying to get
> something done...

The tank discharges gas, which means it gets cold from liquid boiling off inside
it when the furnace runs. Might not be a problem in Okie temps, but when it's
-30 outside, the tank has to be reasonably large in comparison to the furnace or
you get into boiling point problems and loss of pressure. 

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Re: [MBZ] More shop heater

[fmiser via Mercedes]

> Craig wrote:
> 
> > fmiser wrote:
> >
> > Here is a handy reference for LP gas.
> > http://www.bergquistinc.com/sites/default/files/academy_guides/Handbook.pdf
> 
> Thank you

Your welcome. *smiles*

> P.S. Have you been affected by the flooding in Missouri?

I have a reply to your earlier query in my outbox - I don't
know where or why it got lost so I sent it again.

Anyway, the flooding didn't effect me.  Some of the road
closings cause me to have to take alternate routes, but for
me the whole thing was no more than a minor annoyance.
Unlike the folks who's houses were full of water...

Tom Savage was in St. Louis.  Maybe he was washed away 'cause
I haven't heard from him for a while. 

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Re: [MBZ] More shop heater

[Randy Bennell via Mercedes]

And the heat will be more even.
You will not have too much heat unless you turn the thermostat up too high.

RB

On 03/01/2016 8:56 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes wrote:

I suspect heat from each end is to get it hot faster. Remember you not only 
have to heat the place you have to heat the stuff in it which with a bunch of 
cars can take some time.
In my estimation you can't have too much heat in a shop...
-Curt
  


   From: Dan Penoff via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
  To: Mercedes List <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
Cc: Dan Penoff <d...@penoff.com>
  Sent: Sunday, January 3, 2016 4:42 PM
  Subject: Re: [MBZ] More shop heater

The rule of thumb is about 4 BTUs per cubic foot for an 8 foot ceiling and good insulation.


You’ve got a 2400 SF area, and if you figure 16 foot ceiling height on average, 
 you’ve got more than enough to heat the place nice and toasty warm.

Dan




On Jan 3, 2016, at 4:37 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com> 
wrote:

How high is the ceiling, or the roof?  I presume it’s got a hip roof.

Dan



On Jan 3, 2016, at 4:33 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes 
<mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

40x60 I believe.







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Re: [MBZ] More shop heater

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

It all has to do with the volume of the shop space and whether or not the 
building is insulated, as well as how warm the owner wanted to keep the place 
based on outside air temperature.

Dan



> On Jan 3, 2016, at 4:14 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Well there are 2 of them on each end of the shop.  They are 200,000 btu units 
> which seems like WAY overkill to me.  I would think I would only be running 
> one of them.  I am not really sure why they put 2 of them  in here but we 
> shall see.  I am going to order the kit because it seems the air shutters are 
> needed which I do not have, and it has some sort of spring change for the 
> valve as well.
> 


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Re: [MBZ] More shop heater

[Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes]

Well for me once I have something pulled in the shop I won't be in and out the 
big overhead doors really.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 3, 2016, at 4:29 PM, Peter Frederick via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> How often did they have the doors open?  Much in and out traffic and you need 
> some serious heat to stay warm while working.
> 
> Peter
> 
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Re: [MBZ] More shop heater

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

I suspect heat from each end is to get it hot faster. Remember you not only 
have to heat the place you have to heat the stuff in it which with a bunch of 
cars can take some time.
In my estimation you can't have too much heat in a shop...
-Curt
 

  From: Dan Penoff via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
 To: Mercedes List <mercedes@okiebenz.com> 
Cc: Dan Penoff <d...@penoff.com>
 Sent: Sunday, January 3, 2016 4:42 PM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] More shop heater
   
The rule of thumb is about 4 BTUs per cubic foot for an 8 foot ceiling and good 
insulation.

You’ve got a 2400 SF area, and if you figure 16 foot ceiling height on average, 
 you’ve got more than enough to heat the place nice and toasty warm.

Dan



> On Jan 3, 2016, at 4:37 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> How high is the ceiling, or the roof?  I presume it’s got a hip roof.
> 
> Dan
> 
> 
>> On Jan 3, 2016, at 4:33 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes 
>> <mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>> 
>> 40x60 I believe.
>> 


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Re: [MBZ] More shop heater

[OK Don via Mercedes]

Well, if it's too much heat for you, maybe I need one for the hangar - 2000
sq. ft. I have a 500 gallon propane tank that I only use for the gas grill
now . . .



-- 
OK Don

*“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of
our people need it sorely on these accounts.”* – Mark Twain

"There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who
learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
for themselves."

WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] More shop heater

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

It probably is referring to drill size, a common measurement.

As Peter mentioned, there are a lot of reasons NOT to use the wrong orifice, 
even though they will work.  You risk doing some serious damage and they won’t 
be near as efficient as they could be.

Buy the conversion kit with the new orifices then you know they’ll be right.

Someone dropped some coin on those - Modine is probably the best heater 
manufacturer when it comes to space heaters like this.  I believe they were the 
ones who invented them.  For what it’s worth, they make damned good radiators 
for large industrial engines, too.

Dan


> On Jan 3, 2016, at 3:17 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> I pulled the nozzles out of one of the heaters today, photos attached. 
> Sticker on the heater says nozzle size 23 (23 what not sure.). It sure 
> appears to me they were welded closed then drilled out to a smaller size. I 
> used drill bits to get an idea of size and it looks like they are about 5/16. 
> Or another size that fits is marked 47 in my drill bit case. I found the 
> manual online and it shows orifice size 23 natural gas and propane 40. With 
> my drill size test showing 47 it's a little big but I am thinking it should 
> be good to go.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone___
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Re: [MBZ] More shop heater

[Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes]

40x60 I believe.

On 1/3/2016 3:29 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote:

What are the dimensions of the place?

Dan



On Jan 3, 2016, at 4:25 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes 
 wrote:

This shop is very well insulated.  For me if it is 60 its probably going to be 
well warm enough for me.



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Re: [MBZ] More shop heater

[Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes]

They are Modine which it appears you can still get the exact model. It further 
reading it talks about adjust air shutters for propane use which appear to be 
round deals that fit over the nozzles. I do not have them on mine. I think I'm 
going to get the proper kit which appears to be around $50 or so. Manual also 
says it will burn 2.19 gals per hour of propane. I plan on getting one of those 
100lb cylinder which is 23.something gallons I believe. I would think think it 
would be running all the time so I think that setup should work for now.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 3, 2016, at 2:26 PM, Peter Frederick via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Typically there is also a screw or post in line with the orifice to get 
> better mixing with the propane, but I don't know if that's obligatory or not.
> 
> You should be fine, but make sure you get the proper flame color (just a hint 
> of yellow at the tip, flames "attached" to the holes in the burner if it has 
> holes and isn't an "atmospheric" one with just a big flame.  Much yellow at 
> the tip and you will have soot buildup and excessive CO in the exhaust, which 
> is dangerous.
> 
> If the heater is recent enough that the manufacturer is still in business, 
> I'd contact them to see if you can get a proper orifice, it will work better. 
>  Off center or uneven holes result in poor combustion, which means less heat 
> per gallon of propane and soot/CO problems.
> 
> They may also be available from a heating/air condition contractor or 
> supplier, I think they are pretty standard.
> 
> Peter
> 
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Re: [MBZ] More shop heater

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

How high is the ceiling, or the roof?  I presume it’s got a hip roof.

Dan


> On Jan 3, 2016, at 4:33 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> 40x60 I believe.
> 
> On 1/3/2016 3:29 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote:
>> What are the dimensions of the place?
>> 
>> Dan
>> 
>> 
>>> On Jan 3, 2016, at 4:25 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> This shop is very well insulated.  For me if it is 60 its probably going to 
>>> be well warm enough for me.
>>> 
>> 
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Re: [MBZ] More shop heater

[Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes]

I have not measured it but its at least 16' for sure, maybe 18'. Yes it 
has a hip roof.


On 1/3/2016 3:37 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote:

How high is the ceiling, or the roof?  I presume it’s got a hip roof.

Dan



On Jan 3, 2016, at 4:33 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes 
 wrote:

40x60 I believe.

On 1/3/2016 3:29 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote:

What are the dimensions of the place?

Dan



On Jan 3, 2016, at 4:25 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes 
 wrote:

This shop is very well insulated.  For me if it is 60 its probably going to be 
well warm enough for me.


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Re: [MBZ] More shop heater

[Peter Frederick via Mercedes]

How often did they have the doors open?  Much in and out traffic and  
you need some serious heat to stay warm while working.


Peter

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Re: [MBZ] More shop heater

[Curly McLain via Mercedes]

I have not measured it but its at least 16' for sure, maybe 18'. Yes 
it has a hip roof.


On 1/3/2016 3:37 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote:

How high is the ceiling, or the roof?  I presume it's got a hip roof.

Dan


16' wall
 gable roof, trusses, so add 10,000 sq ft for the space above the 
walls, beneath the roof.


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Re: [MBZ] More shop heater

[Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes]

This shop is very well insulated.  For me if it is 60 its probably going 
to be well warm enough for me.


On 1/3/2016 3:23 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote:

It all has to do with the volume of the shop space and whether or not the 
building is insulated, as well as how warm the owner wanted to keep the place 
based on outside air temperature.

Dan




On Jan 3, 2016, at 4:14 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes 
 wrote:

Well there are 2 of them on each end of the shop.  They are 200,000 btu units 
which seems like WAY overkill to me.  I would think I would only be running one 
of them.  I am not really sure why they put 2 of them  in here but we shall 
see.  I am going to order the kit because it seems the air shutters are needed 
which I do not have, and it has some sort of spring change for the valve as 
well.



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Re: [MBZ] More shop heater

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

The rule of thumb is about 4 BTUs per cubic foot for an 8 foot ceiling and good 
insulation.

You’ve got a 2400 SF area, and if you figure 16 foot ceiling height on average, 
 you’ve got more than enough to heat the place nice and toasty warm.

Dan



> On Jan 3, 2016, at 4:37 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> How high is the ceiling, or the roof?  I presume it’s got a hip roof.
> 
> Dan
> 
> 
>> On Jan 3, 2016, at 4:33 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> 40x60 I believe.
>> 


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Re: [MBZ] More shop heater

[Peter Frederick via Mercedes]

Typically there is also a screw or post in line with the orifice to  
get better mixing with the propane, but I don't know if that's  
obligatory or not.


You should be fine, but make sure you get the proper flame color (just  
a hint of yellow at the tip, flames "attached" to the holes in the  
burner if it has holes and isn't an "atmospheric" one with just a big  
flame.  Much yellow at the tip and you will have soot buildup and  
excessive CO in the exhaust, which is dangerous.


If the heater is recent enough that the manufacturer is still in  
business, I'd contact them to see if you can get a proper orifice, it  
will work better.  Off center or uneven holes result in poor  
combustion, which means less heat per gallon of propane and soot/CO  
problems.


They may also be available from a heating/air condition contractor or  
supplier, I think they are pretty standard.


Peter

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Re: [MBZ] More shop heater

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

What are the dimensions of the place?

Dan


> On Jan 3, 2016, at 4:25 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> This shop is very well insulated.  For me if it is 60 its probably going to 
> be well warm enough for me.
> 


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Re: [MBZ] More shop heater

[Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes]

Well there are 2 of them on each end of the shop.  They are 200,000 btu 
units which seems like WAY overkill to me.  I would think I would only 
be running one of them.  I am not really sure why they put 2 of them  in 
here but we shall see.  I am going to order the kit because it seems the 
air shutters are needed which I do not have, and it has some sort of 
spring change for the valve as well.


On 1/3/2016 3:10 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote:

It probably is referring to drill size, a common measurement.

As Peter mentioned, there are a lot of reasons NOT to use the wrong orifice, 
even though they will work.  You risk doing some serious damage and they won’t 
be near as efficient as they could be.

Buy the conversion kit with the new orifices then you know they’ll be right.

Someone dropped some coin on those - Modine is probably the best heater 
manufacturer when it comes to space heaters like this.  I believe they were the 
ones who invented them.  For what it’s worth, they make damned good radiators 
for large industrial engines, too.

Dan



On Jan 3, 2016, at 3:17 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes 
 wrote:

I pulled the nozzles out of one of the heaters today, photos attached. Sticker 
on the heater says nozzle size 23 (23 what not sure.). It sure appears to me 
they were welded closed then drilled out to a smaller size. I used drill bits 
to get an idea of size and it looks like they are about 5/16. Or another size 
that fits is marked 47 in my drill bit case. I found the manual online and it 
shows orifice size 23 natural gas and propane 40. With my drill size test 
showing 47 it's a little big but I am thinking it should be good to go.



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Re: [MBZ] More shop heater

[Rick Knoble via Mercedes]

OK Don writes :

>Well, if it's too much heat for you, >maybe I need one for the hangar - >2000
>sq. ft. I have a 500 gallon propane >tank that I only use for the gas >grill 
>now . . .

There you go! Set the thermostat for 35 degrees or so, and condensation 
corrosion will be reduced.

Rick 
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[MBZ] More shop heater

[Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes]

I pulled the nozzles out of one of the heaters today, photos attached. Sticker 
on the heater says nozzle size 23 (23 what not sure.). It sure appears to me 
they were welded closed then drilled out to a smaller size. I used drill bits 
to get an idea of size and it looks like they are about 5/16. Or another size 
that fits is marked 47 in my drill bit case. I found the manual online and it 
shows orifice size 23 natural gas and propane 40. With my drill size test 
showing 47 it's a little big but I am thinking it should be good to go.



Sent from my iPhone___
http://www.okiebenz.com

To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com