subject:"\[MBZ\] N"


G Mann via Mercedes wrote:

I live in Arizona, where it is both legal and common to carry discrete or
openly, no restrictions. It is quite common to meet other shoppers who,
like me are armed. No one except the criminals or some back east visitors
who are gun phobic  worry about it. I shop Krogers [branded as Frys
here] often. There have been no robberies and no gang assaults in the
parking lot either.


Here's a picture of Fry's carry, complete with a $30 Blackhawk Sherpa retention 
holster, or maybe a $15 knockoff of same.

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2014/09/dean-weingarten/open-carry-at-kroger-well-frys/

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Re: [MBZ] N

2014-09-10 Thread Meade Dillon via Mercedes

The combination of the pith helmet, shorts, man-purse, and pistol, wow.
Comfortable and practical, yes.  Stylish?  Call the fashion police!

Max Dillon,
Charleston SC

On Sep 10, 2014 8:29 AM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
wrote:

 Here's a picture of Fry's carry, complete with a $30 Blackhawk Sherpa
retention holster, or maybe a $15 knockoff of same.

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2014/09/dean-weingarten/open-carry-at-kroger-well-frys/


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Re: [MBZ] N

2014-09-10 Thread Jim Cathey via Mercedes


The Brady Campaign To Prevent Gun Violence


My main objection to them is their asinine plan to
replace gun violence with other kinds, where there is
a huge advantage to the young, the strong, and the cruel.

-- Jim


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Re: [MBZ] N

2014-09-10 Thread Rich Thomas via Mercedes


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0iRTB-FTMdk

--R

On 9/10/14 9:20 AM, Meade Dillon via Mercedes wrote:

The combination of the pith helmet, shorts, man-purse, and pistol, wow.
Comfortable and practical, yes.  Stylish?  Call the fashion police!

Max Dillon,
Charleston SC

On Sep 10, 2014 8:29 AM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
wrote:

Here's a picture of Fry's carry, complete with a $30 Blackhawk Sherpa

retention holster, or maybe a $15 knockoff of same.
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2014/09/dean-weingarten/open-carry-at-kroger-well-frys/



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Re: [MBZ] N


Probably true but you know what they say about statistics.

And, I assume your odds of dying in gun violence are a lot higher in the 
USA than they are in Canada.


RB

On 09/09/2014 7:02 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes wrote:

More people die of:
Heart disease (by almost a factor of 20)
and
Medical Mistakes.

Statistically speaking your chance of dying in gun violence is astonishingly 
small.

-Curt







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Re: [MBZ] N


*U.S. vs. The World*

*Last year, handguns killed 48 people in Japan, 8 in Great Britain, 34 
in Switzerland, 52 in Canada, 58 in Israel, 21 in Sweden, 42 in West 
Germany and 10,728 in the United States.* (Half True 
http://www.politifact.com/rhode-island/statements/2012/dec/23/facebook-posts/facebook-posting-handgun-deaths-has-out-date-numbe/) 
The numbers are wildly out of date. They also omit important context, 
such as population size. But the odds of being murdered by a gun in the 
United States is far in excess of the risk in the listed countries.


More quick google research so take it for what it is worth, but this 
site says the odds are much greater in the USA than in Canada.


RB who knows lots of people that he would not want to see carrying a gun


On 09/09/2014 7:02 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes wrote:

More people die of:
Heart disease (by almost a factor of 20)
and
Medical Mistakes.

Statistically speaking your chance of dying in gun violence is astonishingly 
small.

-Curt






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Re: [MBZ] N

I thought the standard line was that you never show that you have a gun 
unless you actually intend to use it.


RB

On 09/09/2014 7:08 PM, Scott Ritchey via Mercedes wrote:

I never saw much point in open carry in public.





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Re: [MBZ] N

Here's an interesting new study on gun violence, and associated costs, by
the Urban Institute:

http://blog.metrotrends.org/2014/08/costs-gun-violence-hospital-price-tag/




On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 11:35 AM, Randy Bennell via Mercedes 
mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:

 Probably true but you know what they say about statistics.

 And, I assume your odds of dying in gun violence are a lot higher in the
 USA than they are in Canada.

 RB

 On 09/09/2014 7:02 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes wrote:

 More people die of:
 Heart disease (by almost a factor of 20)
 and
 Medical Mistakes.

 Statistically speaking your chance of dying in gun violence is
 astonishingly small.

 -Curt


 



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Re: [MBZ] N


You might not like the source, but are the numbers correct?

RB


On 10/09/2014 7:17 AM, M. Mitchell Marmel via Mercedes wrote:

At 2:15 PM -0500 9/9/14, Randy Bennell via Mercedes wrote:

*The big picture:*

 * Every year in the U.S., an average of more than 100,000 people are
   shot, according to The Brady Campaign To Prevent Gun Violence


There's your problem there, the source.  They have a rather large axe 
to grind.


-MMM-



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Re: [MBZ] N and guns


So, how secure is that gun in the holster?
How easy might it be for someone to come up behind you and take the gun 
from you?

That is what would concern me as much as anything.
If some nut case takes your gun, you may just be the first one to get shot.

RB


On 10/09/2014 7:30 AM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes wrote:

G Mann via Mercedes wrote:
I live in Arizona, where it is both legal and common to carry 
discrete or

openly, no restrictions. It is quite common to meet other shoppers who,
like me are armed. No one except the criminals or some back east 
visitors

who are gun phobic  worry about it. I shop Krogers [branded as Frys
here] often. There have been no robberies and no gang assaults in the
parking lot either.


Here's a picture of Fry's carry, complete with a $30 Blackhawk Sherpa 
retention holster, or maybe a $15 knockoff of same.
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2014/09/dean-weingarten/open-carry-at-kroger-well-frys/ 



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Re: [MBZ] N

2014-09-10 Thread Curt Raymond via Mercedes

Depends on where specifically. I suspect I have a lesser chance of dying of gun 
violence than somebody in downtown Montreal or Toronto. Years ago I was setting 
up a call center in Halifax and there were roving gangs of teenagers killing 
people with sticks and bats. People were afraid to go out at night. I moved the 
tire iron from the trunk of my rental car into the cabin but had no troubles.

If anti-gun laws worked then places like Chicago and Washington DC wouldn't 
have any gun violence, in fact the truth is exactly the opposite.

-Curt



 From: Randy Bennell rbenn...@bennell.ca
To: Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com; Mercedes Discussion List 
mercedes@okiebenz.com 
Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2014 11:35 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] N
 

Probably true but you know what they say about statistics.

And, I assume your odds of dying in gun violence are a lot higher in the 
USA than they are in Canada.

RB




On 09/09/2014 7:02 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes wrote:
 More people die of:
 Heart disease (by almost a factor of 20)
 and
 Medical Mistakes.

 Statistically speaking your chance of dying in gun violence is astonishingly 
 small.

 -Curt


 

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Re: [MBZ] N

What anti-gun laws?

On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 12:31 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes 
mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:

 Depends on where specifically. I suspect I have a lesser chance of dying
 of gun violence than somebody in downtown Montreal or Toronto. Years ago I
 was setting up a call center in Halifax and there were roving gangs of
 teenagers killing people with sticks and bats. People were afraid to go out
 at night. I moved the tire iron from the trunk of my rental car into the
 cabin but had no troubles.

 If anti-gun laws worked then places like Chicago and Washington DC
 wouldn't have any gun violence, in fact the truth is exactly the opposite.

 -Curt


 
  From: Randy Bennell rbenn...@bennell.ca
 To: Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com; Mercedes Discussion List 
 mercedes@okiebenz.com
 Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2014 11:35 AM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] N


 Probably true but you know what they say about statistics.

 And, I assume your odds of dying in gun violence are a lot higher in the
 USA than they are in Canada.

 RB




 On 09/09/2014 7:02 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes wrote:
  More people die of:
  Heart disease (by almost a factor of 20)
  and
  Medical Mistakes.
 
  Statistically speaking your chance of dying in gun violence is
 astonishingly small.
 
  -Curt
 
 
  
 
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Re: [MBZ] N

2014-09-10 Thread Curt Raymond via Mercedes

Ahh the Politifact report. You left out the murder rate though and your odds of 
being murdered which is 1 in 24,000 in the US and 1 in 56,000 in Canada which 
is still way the hell behind Spain at 1 in 111,000 which surprises me.

You chance of being killed with a gun (and again its a big country) is 1 in 
200,000 compared to the US' 1 in 31,000, now think of Israel where everybody 
thinks everybody is being killed all the time and your chance of dying in gun 
violence is 1 in 1,000,000 and now maybe you realize the regionalization that 
gets left out when talking about all gun statistics.



-Curt



 From: Randy Bennell rbenn...@bennell.ca
To: Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com; Mercedes Discussion List 
mercedes@okiebenz.com 
Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2014 11:38 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] N
 


U.S. vs. The World

Last year, handguns killed 48 people in Japan, 8 in Great Britain, 34 in 
Switzerland, 52 in Canada, 58 in Israel, 21 in Sweden, 42 in West Germany and 
10,728 in the United States. (Half True) The numbers are wildly out of date. 
They also omit important context, such as population size. But the odds of 
being murdered by a gun in the United States is far in excess of the risk in 
the listed countries.

More quick google research so take it for what it is worth, but
  this site says the odds are much greater in the USA than in
  Canada.

RB who knows lots of people that he would not want to see carrying
  a gun





On 09/09/2014 7:02 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes wrote:

More people die of:
Heart disease (by almost a factor of 20)
and
Medical Mistakes. Statistically speaking your chance of dying in gun violence 
is astonishingly small. -Curt  
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Re: [MBZ] N

2014-09-10 Thread Curt Raymond via Mercedes

Probably not, last year (or was it early this year) the Obama administration 
put out the 33,000 number which even they admit is probably half suicides...

Also the thing below doesn't admit that the number has been falling steadily 
for the last 40 or so years.

-Curt



 From: Randy Bennell via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
To: M. Mitchell Marmel marme...@gmail.com; Mercedes Discussion List 
mercedes@okiebenz.com 
Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2014 11:44 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] N
 

You might not like the source, but are the numbers correct?

RB





On 10/09/2014 7:17 AM, M. Mitchell Marmel via Mercedes wrote:
 At 2:15 PM -0500 9/9/14, Randy Bennell via Mercedes wrote:
 *The big picture:*

  * Every year in the U.S., an average of more than 100,000 people are
shot, according to The Brady Campaign To Prevent Gun Violence

 There's your problem there, the source.  They have a rather large axe 
 to grind.

 -MMM-



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Re: [MBZ] N and guns

2014-09-10 Thread Meade Dillon via Mercedes

Typically the Blackhawk line of holsters have a catch positioned so it can
be quickly released if needed by the wearer, but are very awkward for
anyone else to be able to reach while also trying to draw the pistol out of
the holster.  These are the same holsters that uniformed police and
military typically use.

Your typical nut case wouldn't have a clue, and would almost certainly
end up leaving without the gun (but maybe leaking daylight and/or in hand
cuffs).



On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 11:47 AM, Randy Bennell via Mercedes 
mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:

 So, how secure is that gun in the holster?
 How easy might it be for someone to come up behind you and take the gun
 from you?
 That is what would concern me as much as anything.
 If some nut case takes your gun, you may just be the first one to get shot.

 RB

 --
-
Max
Charleston SC
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Re: [MBZ] N and guns

The nut case is the guy displaying a gun in public.  The criminal is
probably smart enough to disarm the nut case.

On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 12:36 PM, Meade Dillon via Mercedes 
mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:

 Typically the Blackhawk line of holsters have a catch positioned so it can
 be quickly released if needed by the wearer, but are very awkward for
 anyone else to be able to reach while also trying to draw the pistol out of
 the holster.  These are the same holsters that uniformed police and
 military typically use.

 Your typical nut case wouldn't have a clue, and would almost certainly
 end up leaving without the gun (but maybe leaking daylight and/or in hand
 cuffs).



 On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 11:47 AM, Randy Bennell via Mercedes 
 mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:

  So, how secure is that gun in the holster?
  How easy might it be for someone to come up behind you and take the gun
  from you?
  That is what would concern me as much as anything.
  If some nut case takes your gun, you may just be the first one to get
 shot.
 
  RB
 
  --
 -
 Max
 Charleston SC
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Re: [MBZ] N and guns

2014-09-10 Thread G Mann via Mercedes

Speaking only for myself, training first in military, later as a Deputy,
weapon retention is primary. It is a multi part process starting with
holster selection and then with situational awareness at all times, armed
or not. That rigorous training is refreshed often and by acceptance of
daily habit. I watch those around me in the current world who are totally
absorbed in their ear buds, cell phones, text messages, etc and I see a
flashing Victim sign above them.

Bottom line, yes it could happen, but it will bear a price to the attacker
not worth paying. The primary weapon is covered by a backup. I take the
position of retaining the ability to defend myself carefully.

Your personal mileage may vary. How is your Mercedes working?

Grant...

On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 8:47 AM, Randy Bennell via Mercedes 
mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:

 So, how secure is that gun in the holster?
 How easy might it be for someone to come up behind you and take the gun
 from you?
 That is what would concern me as much as anything.
 If some nut case takes your gun, you may just be the first one to get shot.

 RB


 On 10/09/2014 7:30 AM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes wrote:

 G Mann via Mercedes wrote:

 I live in Arizona, where it is both legal and common to carry discrete or
 openly, no restrictions. It is quite common to meet other shoppers who,
 like me are armed. No one except the criminals or some back east visitors
 who are gun phobic  worry about it. I shop Krogers [branded as Frys
 here] often. There have been no robberies and no gang assaults in the
 parking lot either.


 Here's a picture of Fry's carry, complete with a $30 Blackhawk Sherpa
 retention holster, or maybe a $15 knockoff of same.
 http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2014/09/dean-weingarten/
 open-carry-at-kroger-well-frys/

 ___



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Re: [MBZ] N and guns

2014-09-10 Thread G Mann via Mercedes

And that observation is based on what fact?

The documented number of times a criminal has attacked when a gun was
present with the intended victim? That begs substance please.

On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 9:52 AM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes 
mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:

 The nut case is the guy displaying a gun in public.  The criminal is
 probably smart enough to disarm the nut case.

 On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 12:36 PM, Meade Dillon via Mercedes 
 mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:

  Typically the Blackhawk line of holsters have a catch positioned so it
 can
  be quickly released if needed by the wearer, but are very awkward for
  anyone else to be able to reach while also trying to draw the pistol out
 of
  the holster.  These are the same holsters that uniformed police and
  military typically use.
 
  Your typical nut case wouldn't have a clue, and would almost certainly
  end up leaving without the gun (but maybe leaking daylight and/or in hand
  cuffs).
 
 
 
  On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 11:47 AM, Randy Bennell via Mercedes 
  mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:
 
   So, how secure is that gun in the holster?
   How easy might it be for someone to come up behind you and take the gun
   from you?
   That is what would concern me as much as anything.
   If some nut case takes your gun, you may just be the first one to get
  shot.
  
   RB
  
   --
  -
  Max
  Charleston SC
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  has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
 
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Re: [MBZ] N

2014-09-10 Thread G Mann via Mercedes

In the interest of fairness with numbers, how about having a look at the
dramatic drop in crime of all types each time a state has passed concealed
carry permitting laws?

In every case there has been a sharp decline in crime. In that same line of
thought, take a look at the murder and crime capitals of the USA. In every
instance, they are states which severely restrict or out right ban private
gun ownership.

If you remove these Unarmed Victim Zones from the quoted calculations by
Brady group, the number of deaths by shooting is well below that of
England, for example [Which is for all intents, unarmed] and places USA
near the bottom of the list as number 4 out of the 204 countries of the
world for the number of shooting deaths. Keep in mind there is an estimated
298,000,000 firearms owned by Americans [that figure may even be
conservative]. That number alone says there are millions of responsible gun
owners who use their private arms while carefully avoiding shooting another
person.

Believe what you wish, however, for myself, I prefer solid facts backed by
logic, not emotion.

http://americangunfacts.com/

Grant..

On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 9:40 AM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes 
mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:

 Probably not, last year (or was it early this year) the Obama
 administration put out the 33,000 number which even they admit is probably
 half suicides...

 Also the thing below doesn't admit that the number has been falling
 steadily for the last 40 or so years.

 -Curt


 
  From: Randy Bennell via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
 To: M. Mitchell Marmel marme...@gmail.com; Mercedes Discussion List 
 mercedes@okiebenz.com
 Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2014 11:44 AM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] N


 You might not like the source, but are the numbers correct?

 RB





 On 10/09/2014 7:17 AM, M. Mitchell Marmel via Mercedes wrote:
  At 2:15 PM -0500 9/9/14, Randy Bennell via Mercedes wrote:
  *The big picture:*
 
   * Every year in the U.S., an average of more than 100,000 people are
 shot, according to The Brady Campaign To Prevent Gun Violence
 
  There's your problem there, the source.  They have a rather large axe
  to grind.
 
  -MMM-
 
 
 
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Re: [MBZ] N

What are the before and after numbers?  Which states?  COuld any other
factors be involved, such as incarceration rates?

On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 2:19 PM, G Mann via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
wrote:

 In the interest of fairness with numbers, how about having a look at the
 dramatic drop in crime of all types each time a state has passed concealed
 carry permitting laws?

 In every case there has been a sharp decline in crime. In that same line of
 thought, take a look at the murder and crime capitals of the USA. In every
 instance, they are states which severely restrict or out right ban private
 gun ownership.

 If you remove these Unarmed Victim Zones from the quoted calculations by
 Brady group, the number of deaths by shooting is well below that of
 England, for example [Which is for all intents, unarmed] and places USA
 near the bottom of the list as number 4 out of the 204 countries of the
 world for the number of shooting deaths. Keep in mind there is an estimated
 298,000,000 firearms owned by Americans [that figure may even be
 conservative]. That number alone says there are millions of responsible gun
 owners who use their private arms while carefully avoiding shooting another
 person.

 Believe what you wish, however, for myself, I prefer solid facts backed by
 logic, not emotion.

 http://americangunfacts.com/

 Grant..

 On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 9:40 AM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes 
 mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:

  Probably not, last year (or was it early this year) the Obama
  administration put out the 33,000 number which even they admit is
 probably
  half suicides...
 
  Also the thing below doesn't admit that the number has been falling
  steadily for the last 40 or so years.
 
  -Curt
 
 
  
   From: Randy Bennell via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
  To: M. Mitchell Marmel marme...@gmail.com; Mercedes Discussion List 
  mercedes@okiebenz.com
  Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2014 11:44 AM
  Subject: Re: [MBZ] N
 
 
  You might not like the source, but are the numbers correct?
 
  RB
 
 
 
 
 
  On 10/09/2014 7:17 AM, M. Mitchell Marmel via Mercedes wrote:
   At 2:15 PM -0500 9/9/14, Randy Bennell via Mercedes wrote:
   *The big picture:*
  
* Every year in the U.S., an average of more than 100,000 people are
  shot, according to The Brady Campaign To Prevent Gun Violence
  
   There's your problem there, the source.  They have a rather large axe
   to grind.
  
   -MMM-
  
  
  
   ___
 
 
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Re: [MBZ] N


Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote:

What anti-gun laws?


Possession of handguns by non-government employees was totally banned in both 
District of Criminals and Chitcago for decades before recently being overturned 
by the Supreme Court. And by totally banned, I mean they considered it a felony 
to have one inside your home that you never took anywhere.
OTOH, if you were an anti-gun newspaper writer, it was not only OK to have a 
handgun, you could shoot a kid for swimming in your pool without permission and 
not face charges. (Carl Rowan)


Most people would consider that an anti-gun law.

Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] N and guns


Meade Dillon via Mercedes wrote:

Typically the Blackhawk line of holsters have a catch positioned so it can
be quickly released if needed by the wearer, but are very awkward for
anyone else to be able to reach while also trying to draw the pistol out of
the holster.  These are the same holsters that uniformed police and
military typically use.


And if you have a good belt on, if they try really hard to walk off with your 
gun, they'll be carrying you too.


Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] N and guns


G Mann via Mercedes wrote:

And that observation is based on what fact?



The fact that Andrew is of the privileged Progressive type that gets to make up 
their facts on the fly, and evil Conservatives aren't allowed to dispute them.


Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] N

That's ancient history.

On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 3:18 PM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes 
mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:

 Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote:

 What anti-gun laws?


 Possession of handguns by non-government employees was totally banned in
 both District of Criminals and Chitcago for decades before recently being
 overturned by the Supreme Court. And by totally banned, I mean they
 considered it a felony to have one inside your home that you never took
 anywhere.
 OTOH, if you were an anti-gun newspaper writer, it was not only OK to have
 a handgun, you could shoot a kid for swimming in your pool without
 permission and not face charges. (Carl Rowan)

 Most people would consider that an anti-gun law.

 Mitch.


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Re: [MBZ] N and guns

Let's not get personal, please.  You don't know me at all.

On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 3:22 PM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes 
mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:

 G Mann via Mercedes wrote:

 And that observation is based on what fact?


 The fact that Andrew is of the privileged Progressive type that gets to
 make up their facts on the fly, and evil Conservatives aren't allowed to
 dispute them.

 Mitch.


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Re: [MBZ] N and guns

2014-09-10 Thread Mountain Man via Mercedes

Andrew wrote:
 Let's not get personal, please.  You don't know me at all.

Das' Kool!!
You keep the mystery about who you are.
The rest of us?
For the most part, we are open book.
Again, Das' Kool!!
mao

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Re: [MBZ] N and guns

2014-09-10 Thread Scott Ritchey via Mercedes

Federal firearms laws are quite strong and the penalties are severe.  But
some jurisdictions (typically jurisdictions with their own, more
restrictive, firearms laws) choose to enforce neither their own laws nor the
Federal laws.  Just look at the criminal records of those mutts that do get
caught.  

Our local chief of police was frustrated because the District Court docket
couldn't begin to accommodate the large number of perps (almost all repeat
offenders).  Plea bargain became the norm; at least that took some of the
perps off the street for a while.  Then he started charging them with
federal firearms violations.  The Federal court dates were soon and proof of
the crime was (relatively) easy.  As I recall, 19 perps went away for 5-10
years each, that first year after the chief started the new approach.

Laws are meaningless if you don't enforce them.

 -Original Message-
 From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of
 Mountain Man via Mercedes
 Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2014 7:27 PM
 To: Andrew Strasfogel; Mercedes Discussion List
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] N and guns
 
 Andrew wrote:
  Let's not get personal, please.  You don't know me at all.
 
 Das' Kool!!
 You keep the mystery about who you are.
 The rest of us?
 For the most part, we are open book.
 Again, Das' Kool!!
 mao


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Re: [MBZ] N and guns

2014-09-10 Thread Craig via Mercedes

On Wed, 10 Sep 2014 19:50:24 -0400 Scott Ritchey via Mercedes
mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:

 Then he started charging them with federal firearms violations.  The
 Federal court dates were soon and proof of the crime was (relatively)
 easy.  As I recall, 19 perps went away for 5-10 years each, that first
 year after the chief started the new approach.

Good for him. Did that get the community's attention?


 Laws are meaningless if you don't enforce them.

How true. Laws are also meaningless if you (like some now in high places)
can flaunt them with impunity.


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] N

I wonder how Kroger will react to that petition taking them to task for
allowing shoppers to carry guns in their supermarkets

On Mon, Sep 8, 2014 at 1:14 PM, Gary Hurst via Mercedes 
mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:

 costco is the best.  i don't care what his politics is.  people tell me
 chick-fil-a must be banned because corporate policy hates gas . now i hear
 costco is no good because they hate guns

 i don't care.  i care how they do their job and both do it quite well.  i
 boycott burger king, not chick-fil-a.  kirkland forever!


 On Mon, Sep 8, 2014 at 11:01 AM, Rich Thomas via Mercedes 
 mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:

  That's interesting.  I was there one day maybe a year or so ago, the guy
  in line ahead of me had a .45 in a holster on his belt, and did not look
  coppish or anything, just like a regular fat merkin good ol boy with his
  fat wife buying large quantities of fattening stuff.  I sorta wondered
  about that, but no one paid him any particular attention.  I think the
  thing to keep in mind is that Costco has plenty of stock, so there are
 not
  likely to be any fights over cheap DVD players or toilet paper bundles.
 
  But yeah, the guy who owns Costco is a commie pinko librull, but, hey, he
  treats me OK.  And the fruit is good.  And concealed is probably the way
 to
  go anyway...
 
  --R
 
 
 
  On 9/8/14 10:42 AM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes wrote:
 
  Rich Thomas via Mercedes wrote:
 
   Now y'all can tell me I got the crappy Costco Michelins, which are
  different from the Michelins I would get down the road at the real tar
  shop.  But the real tire shop would use only 80% N, so Costco is 20%
 better
  in that regard.
 
 
  Costco hates human rights, especially those protected by the Second
  Amendment to the Constitution. One guy, name of Erik Scott, was murdered
  for not knowing this, on his initial visit to buy a Costco membership.
 
  I try to avoid Wal-Mart, but go there every fall to buy motor oil.
  Costco, OTOH, I wouldn't patronize for anything.
 
  Mitch.
 
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 --


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Re: [MBZ] N

2014-09-09 Thread Rich Thomas via Mercedes

Those guys that got the beat down by the group of youths would 
probably support the idea.


--R


On 9/9/14 11:56 AM, Andrew Strasfogel wrote:
I wonder how Kroger will react to that petition taking them to task 
for allowing shoppers to carry guns in their supermarkets





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Re: [MBZ] N

You lost me there.

On Tue, Sep 9, 2014 at 12:17 PM, Rich Thomas via Mercedes 
mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:

 Those guys that got the beat down by the group of youths would probably
 support the idea.

 --R


 On 9/9/14 11:56 AM, Andrew Strasfogel wrote:

 I wonder how Kroger will react to that petition taking them to task for
 allowing shoppers to carry guns in their supermarkets



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Re: [MBZ] N

2014-09-09 Thread G Mann via Mercedes

You are kidding right?  With the price of groceries these days you need an
armed guard to carry all the money TO the grocery store and to carry the
one bag of groceries your total pay can buy FROM the grocery store..

I live in Arizona, where it is both legal and common to carry discrete or
openly, no restrictions. It is quite common to meet other shoppers who,
like me are armed. No one except the criminals or some back east visitors
who are gun phobic  worry about it. I shop Krogers [branded as Frys
here] often. There have been no robberies and no gang assaults in the
parking lot either.

Welcome to America, where your right to self defense is an act of God, not
government. Government just recognizes that fact along with the other God
given rights listed in the Constitutional Amendments.

On Tue, Sep 9, 2014 at 9:34 AM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes 
mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:

 You lost me there.

 On Tue, Sep 9, 2014 at 12:17 PM, Rich Thomas via Mercedes 
 mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:

  Those guys that got the beat down by the group of youths would probably
  support the idea.
 
  --R
 
 
  On 9/9/14 11:56 AM, Andrew Strasfogel wrote:
 
  I wonder how Kroger will react to that petition taking them to task for
  allowing shoppers to carry guns in their supermarkets
 
 
 
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Re: [MBZ] N

2014-09-09 Thread Randy Bennell via Mercedes

*The big picture:*

* Every year in the U.S., an average of more than 100,000 people are
shot, according to The Brady Campaign To Prevent Gun Violence

http://www.bradycampaign.org/xshare/Facts/Gun_Death_and_Injury_Stat_Sheet_3-Year_Average_FINAL.pdf.
* Every day in the U.S., an average of 289 people are shot. Eighty-six
of them die: 30 are murdered, 53 kill themselves, two die
accidentally, and one is shot in a police intervention, the Brady
Campaign

http://infocenter.nbcuni.ge.com/ResearchTopic/IssuesControversies/GunViolenceFacts.html
reports.
* Between 2000 and 2010, a total of 335,609 people died from guns --
more than the population of St. Louis, Mo. (318,069), Pittsburgh
(307,484), Cincinnati, Ohio (296,223), Newark, N.J. (277,540), and
Orlando, Fla. (243,195) (sources: CDF

http://www.childrensdefense.org/child-research-data-publications/data/state-data-repository/protect-children-not-guns-key-facts-2013.pdf,
U.S. Census http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/index.html; CDC
http://webappa.cdc.gov/sasweb/ncipc/mortrate10_us.html)
* One person is killed by a firearm every 17 minutes, 87 people are
killed during an average day, and 609 are killed every week.
(source: CDC)

*Homicides by weapon:*

* Handguns comprised 72.5 percent of the firearms used in murder and
non-negligent manslaughter incidents in 2011; 4.1 percent were with
shotguns; 3.8 percent were with rifles; 18.5 percent were with
unspecified firearms.

I still think that bullet proof shelving should be installed in all
retail stores for the protection of the people.

On 09/09/2014 11:48 AM, G Mann via Mercedes wrote:

You are kidding right? With the price of groceries these days you need an
armed guard to carry all the money TO the grocery store and to carry the
one bag of groceries your total pay can buy FROM the grocery store..

I live in Arizona, where it is both legal and common to carry discrete or
openly, no restrictions. It is quite common to meet other shoppers who,
like me are armed. No one except the criminals or some back east visitors
who are gun phobic worry about it. I shop Krogers [branded as Frys
here] often. There have been no robberies and no gang assaults in the
parking lot either.

Welcome to America, where your right to self defense is an act of God, not
government. Government just recognizes that fact along with the other God
given rights listed in the Constitutional Amendments.

On Tue, Sep 9, 2014 at 9:34 AM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes
mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:

You lost me there.

On Tue, Sep 9, 2014 at 12:17 PM, Rich Thomas via Mercedes
mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:

Those guys that got the beat down by the group of youths would probably
support the idea.

--R

On 9/9/14 11:56 AM, Andrew Strasfogel wrote:

I wonder how Kroger will react to that petition taking them to task for
allowing shoppers to carry guns in their supermarkets

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Re: [MBZ] N

2014-09-09 Thread Mitch Haley via Mercedes


Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote:

I wonder how Kroger will react to that petition taking them to task for
allowing shoppers to carry guns in their supermarkets


So far, they've been trying to politely tell MDA to urinate up a rope.
Now even the official anti-gun opinion writer at IndyStar thinks MDA is crazy.
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2014/09/robert-farago/moms-demand-action-gun-sense-americas-hometown-paper-fed-mda/

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Re: [MBZ] N

MDA?  Minimum daily allowance (of vitamins)?

On Tue, Sep 9, 2014 at 4:06 PM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes 
mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:

 Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote:

 I wonder how Kroger will react to that petition taking them to task for
 allowing shoppers to carry guns in their supermarkets


 So far, they've been trying to politely tell MDA to urinate up a rope.
 Now even the official anti-gun opinion writer at IndyStar thinks MDA is
 crazy.
 http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2014/09/robert-farago/
 moms-demand-action-gun-sense-americas-hometown-paper-fed-mda/

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Re: [MBZ] N

2014-09-09 Thread Craig via Mercedes

On Tue, 9 Sep 2014 16:26:06 -0400 Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes
mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:

 On Tue, Sep 9, 2014 at 4:06 PM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes 
 mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:
 
  So far, they've been trying to politely tell MDA to urinate up a rope.
  Now even the official anti-gun opinion writer at IndyStar thinks MDA
  is crazy.
  http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2014/09/robert-farago/
  moms-demand-action-gun-sense-americas-hometown-paper-fed-mda/

 MDA?  Minimum daily allowance (of vitamins)?

Reading (or clicking on the link) would quickly give the answer.

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Re: [MBZ] N

2014-09-09 Thread Curt Raymond via Mercedes

More people die of:
Heart disease (by almost a factor of 20)
and
Medical Mistakes.

Statistically speaking your chance of dying in gun violence is astonishingly 
small.

-Curt



 From: Randy Bennell via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
To: G Mann g2ma...@gmail.com; Mercedes Discussion List 
mercedes@okiebenz.com 
Sent: Tuesday, September 9, 2014 3:15 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] N
 


*The big picture:*

  * Every year in the U.S., an average of more than 100,000 people are
shot, according to The Brady Campaign To Prevent Gun Violence

http://www.bradycampaign.org/xshare/Facts/Gun_Death_and_Injury_Stat_Sheet_3-Year_Average_FINAL.pdf.
  * Every day in the U.S., an average of 289 people are shot. Eighty-six
of them die: 30 are murdered, 53 kill themselves, two die
accidentally, and one is shot in a police intervention, the Brady
Campaign

http://infocenter.nbcuni.ge.com/ResearchTopic/IssuesControversies/GunViolenceFacts.html
 reports.
  * Between 2000 and 2010, a total of 335,609 people died from guns --
more than the population of St. Louis, Mo. (318,069), Pittsburgh
(307,484), Cincinnati, Ohio (296,223), Newark, N.J. (277,540), and
Orlando, Fla. (243,195) (sources: CDF

http://www.childrensdefense.org/child-research-data-publications/data/state-data-repository/protect-children-not-guns-key-facts-2013.pdf,
U.S. Census http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/index.html; CDC
http://webappa.cdc.gov/sasweb/ncipc/mortrate10_us.html)
  * One person is killed by a firearm every 17 minutes, 87 people are
killed during an average day, and 609 are killed every week.
(source: CDC)

*Homicides by weapon:*

  * Handguns comprised 72.5 percent of the firearms used in murder and
non-negligent manslaughter incidents in 2011; 4.1 percent were with
shotguns; 3.8 percent were with rifles; 18.5 percent were with
unspecified firearms.


I still think that bullet proof shelving should be installed in all 
retail stores for the protection of the people.

RB





On 09/09/2014 11:48 AM, G Mann via Mercedes wrote:
 You are kidding right?  With the price of groceries these days you need an
 armed guard to carry all the money TO the grocery store and to carry the
 one bag of groceries your total pay can buy FROM the grocery store..

 I live in Arizona, where it is both legal and common to carry discrete or
 openly, no restrictions. It is quite common to meet other shoppers who,
 like me are armed. No one except the criminals or some back east visitors
 who are gun phobic  worry about it. I shop Krogers [branded as Frys
 here] often. There have been no robberies and no gang assaults in the
 parking lot either.

 Welcome to America, where your right to self defense is an act of God, not
 government. Government just recognizes that fact along with the other God
 given rights listed in the Constitutional Amendments.

 On Tue, Sep 9, 2014 at 9:34 AM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes 
 mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:

 You lost me there.

 On Tue, Sep 9, 2014 at 12:17 PM, Rich Thomas via Mercedes 
 mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:

 Those guys that got the beat down by the group of youths would probably
 support the idea.

 --R


 On 9/9/14 11:56 AM, Andrew Strasfogel wrote:

 I wonder how Kroger will react to that petition taking them to task for
 allowing shoppers to carry guns in their supermarkets


 ___


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Re: [MBZ] N

2014-09-09 Thread Greg Fiorentino via Mercedes

Perhaps, but only a vanishingly small number are murdered by people who are
legally entitled to possess a firearm.  And more are killed by baseball bats
than long guns.

Greg

-Original Message-
From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Randy
Bennell via Mercedes
Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2014 12:16 PM
To: G Mann; Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] N


*The big picture:*

  * Every year in the U.S., an average of more than 100,000 people are
shot, according to The Brady Campaign To Prevent Gun Violence
 
http://www.bradycampaign.org/xshare/Facts/Gun_Death_and_Injury_Stat_Sheet_3
-Year_Average_FINAL.pdf.
  * Every day in the U.S., an average of 289 people are shot. Eighty-six
of them die: 30 are murdered, 53 kill themselves, two die
accidentally, and one is shot in a police intervention, the Brady
Campaign
 
http://infocenter.nbcuni.ge.com/ResearchTopic/IssuesControversies/GunViolen
ceFacts.html reports.
  * Between 2000 and 2010, a total of 335,609 people died from guns --
more than the population of St. Louis, Mo. (318,069), Pittsburgh
(307,484), Cincinnati, Ohio (296,223), Newark, N.J. (277,540), and
Orlando, Fla. (243,195) (sources: CDF
 
http://www.childrensdefense.org/child-research-data-publications/data/state
-data-repository/protect-children-not-guns-key-facts-2013.pdf,
U.S. Census http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/index.html; CDC
http://webappa.cdc.gov/sasweb/ncipc/mortrate10_us.html)
  * One person is killed by a firearm every 17 minutes, 87 people are
killed during an average day, and 609 are killed every week.
(source: CDC)

*Homicides by weapon:*

  * Handguns comprised 72.5 percent of the firearms used in murder and
non-negligent manslaughter incidents in 2011; 4.1 percent were with
shotguns; 3.8 percent were with rifles; 18.5 percent were with
unspecified firearms.


I still think that bullet proof shelving should be installed in all retail
stores for the protection of the people.

RB


On 09/09/2014 11:48 AM, G Mann via Mercedes wrote:
 You are kidding right?  With the price of groceries these days you 
 need an armed guard to carry all the money TO the grocery store and to 
 carry the one bag of groceries your total pay can buy FROM the grocery
store..

 I live in Arizona, where it is both legal and common to carry discrete 
 or openly, no restrictions. It is quite common to meet other shoppers 
 who, like me are armed. No one except the criminals or some back east 
 visitors who are gun phobic  worry about it. I shop Krogers [branded as
Frys
 here] often. There have been no robberies and no gang assaults in the 
 parking lot either.

 Welcome to America, where your right to self defense is an act of God, 
 not government. Government just recognizes that fact along with the 
 other God given rights listed in the Constitutional Amendments.

 On Tue, Sep 9, 2014 at 9:34 AM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes  
 mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:

 You lost me there.

 On Tue, Sep 9, 2014 at 12:17 PM, Rich Thomas via Mercedes  
 mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:

 Those guys that got the beat down by the group of youths would 
 probably support the idea.

 --R


 On 9/9/14 11:56 AM, Andrew Strasfogel wrote:

 I wonder how Kroger will react to that petition taking them to task 
 for allowing shoppers to carry guns in their supermarkets


 ___


___
http://www.okiebenz.com

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To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those
individuals are responsible for the content of the post.  The list owner has
no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.


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Re: [MBZ] N

2014-09-09 Thread Scott Ritchey via Mercedes

I never saw much point in open carry in public.

 -Original Message-
 From: Mitch Haley 
 Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2014 4:07 PM
 
 Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote:
  I wonder how Kroger will react to that petition taking them to task
  for allowing shoppers to carry guns in their supermarkets
 
 So far, they've been trying to politely tell MDA to urinate up a rope.
 Now even the official anti-gun opinion writer at IndyStar thinks MDA is
crazy.
 http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2014/09/robert-farago/moms-
 demand-action-gun-sense-americas-hometown-paper-fed-mda/
 
 ___
 


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Re: [MBZ] N

2014-09-09 Thread Mitch Haley via Mercedes


Scott Ritchey wrote:

I never saw much point in open carry in public.


Short answer: Deterrent.

The OC guys say they live happier lives never getting mugged in the first place 
because the muggers pick a soft target.


The CC guys say they've got the element of surprise when somebody tries to mug 
them not knowing they're armed.  They also believe that when making contact with 
a criminal who decided when and where to jump you, he's the one with the element 
of surprise in his favor, you've just got the disadvantage of trying to draw 
from inside your clothes while his weapon is already deployed.


There's a good article about 'the open carry debate' on page 9 of this 
newsletter. I'm going to meet the guy who wrote it tomorrow night.

http://miopencarry.org/moc_files/publications/newsletter/MOC-Newsletter-4.pdf

Mitch

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Re: [MBZ] N