Re: [MBZ] Nother 107 gasser Q (380SL)
OK, found the sensor or the rear of the right head. 0 ohms cold, the switched to infinite as the engine warmed up. tried jumping the two sockets in the plug. No difference, so I figured the $800 idle control valve (ICV) is defunct. Then removed the wires to ICV and with the engine running, applied 12v across the pins. Engine shut down immediately. ICV appears to function normally so: 1. ICV connections are good. 2. pulse to ICV terminal appears good, but I don't know for sure what is normal (indicates bad sensir ir bad ICV indicates OVP and Idle control relays are good 3.sensor switches between 0 ohm and infinite ohm as might be expected. that leaves the ICV 4. ICV 12v test shuts the engine down immediately. indicates ICV is ok. now what? I got the pdf Barry sent. will print it and look for anything else. I am stumped again/still rant /rant Fred - Sound to me like the cold engine sensor is not working. Did you get the pdf file that I sent you (07.3-112.pdf 2Mb) early Saturday AM? It was the file that Jamie was referring to. Not sure how your SL is set up but on my '81 there is a temperature sensor in the back of the right cylinder Head that is used by the idle speed computer to give you fast idle when the engine is cold. When the engine warms up the sensor (closes?) and sends a signal to the idle speed computer so that the idle speed then drops to normal. As I recall the test to see if that circuit and sensor is working was just to pull off the connector from the sensor. That should equal fast idle. Short the connector should drop to warm idle. Don't trust my memory read the pdf before you try that. Also I think I remember seeing that in the later 116 engines they used oil temperature instead of water temp. but that would be in the pdf. Let me know if you didn't get the file and I'll try to send it again. I can break it into 2 smaller files if your mail server choked on the 2Mb file. Barry Went to 1600 RPM immediately ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Nother 107 gasser Q (380SL)
4. ICV 12v test shuts the engine down immediately. indicates ICV is ok. Indicates ICV is not completely dead. It might be sticky, and unable to move smoothly as it should. Have you cleaned it out thoroughly with brake cleaner? -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Nother 107 gasser Q (380SL)
Not yet. Have to go several miles to FLAPS for brake cleaner. Blew several shots of wd40 into it last night as a cleaner. not much dirt came out. On barry's 81, the test procedure is 3 pages of pdf and includes 3 electric and 2 electro/mechanical components. On the 83 on USA version the test procedure is 15 pages (5x) and not quite 5 x as many components. Much more complex. on the 85 us version the temp input is not from the water temp switch at the back of the head where it is fairly easy to access. Rather, it is from an oil temp switch buried somewhere down by the hard to reach oil filter, and since it is near the top of the oil filter, inaccessible from above or below with the engine in the car. They don't tell you how to get at it, that is a different job #. I am going to try to fine the other end of the wire(s) I will try to simulate operation of the oil switch and see if that changes engine speed.and also test a vacuum switch, when i find it. if those check out, most of the other tests result in replace the control unit (idle speed control computer relay) So then it is off to see if I can find a junkyard that will let me pull the ICV and IC relay computer. There is also an on/off test for the ICV where you feel and hear it function when the switch is turned on and off. That takes 2 people, which I don't have right now. I tend to believe the ICV is functional because of the speed at which it shut down the engine. If it was a problem with the valve modulating, there would be more chance that the idle speeds would fluctuate on different days. This does not. there is still a possibility that the wires are hooked to the ICV backwards, as it does not have an original plug, but red individual crimp on connectors. there does not appear to be any orienting lug on the ICV, so I tend to think the it does not matter as to polarity. But that is an untested theory. 85 380SL 4. ICV 12v test shuts the engine down immediately. indicates ICV is ok. Indicates ICV is not completely dead. It might be sticky, and unable to move smoothly as it should. Have you cleaned it out thoroughly with brake cleaner? -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Nother 107 gasser Q (380SL)
85 380SL After the 12v test passed and I was stumped, I printed the 18 page page troubleshooting pdf to plan my attack without the special tools. Put the wires back on the ICV to start the engine and do the test of the vacuum switch. No start, so obviously the ICV did not open up. tapped on it and tried starting again. So, now I know I have a bad ICV. Tested the vacuum switch. no joy, it did nothing. At this point, I think the troubleshooting should be suspended until I find a junkyard were I can get a ICV and the #21, Idle control (box/computer/relay). Most of the remaining trouble shooting ends with replace the idle control and the only other thing is the oil pressure switch, and that I can check when replacing the idle control with a junkyard find. (Jump pin 6 to ground.) The other trick is to FIND it. The pdf shoes it on the firewall near the brake booster. Not on this car. Probably under the pass side dash. So I am off to find a junker... ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Nother 107 gasser Q (380SL)
If the car is running and you unplug the ICV, does it do anything? IIRC the quick and dirty test is if the idle goes way up then its good. If it does nothing, its bad. On 9/27/2010 12:16 PM, Dieselhead wrote: 85 380SL After the 12v test passed and I was stumped, I printed the 18 page page troubleshooting pdf to plan my attack without the special tools. Put the wires back on the ICV to start the engine and do the test of the vacuum switch. No start, so obviously the ICV did not open up. tapped on it and tried starting again. So, now I know I have a bad ICV. Tested the vacuum switch. no joy, it did nothing. At this point, I think the troubleshooting should be suspended until I find a junkyard were I can get a ICV and the #21, Idle control (box/computer/relay). Most of the remaining trouble shooting ends with replace the idle control and the only other thing is the oil pressure switch, and that I can check when replacing the idle control with a junkyard find. (Jump pin 6 to ground.) The other trick is to FIND it. The pdf shoes it on the firewall near the brake booster. Not on this car. Probably under the pass side dash. So I am off to find a junker... ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.856 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3162 - Release Date: 09/27/10 01:34:00 -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK 95 E300, 94 S500, 92 500SEL, 92 300SD, 92 300E 4Matic, 91 350SDL, 91 300D, 89 560SEL, 87 300SDL x2, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro, 85 190D, 84 190D, 84 300D euro manny, 76 240D, 76 300D, http://www.okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Nother 107 gasser Q (380SL)
Makes no difference. there is a pulsed signal to it about 60 cycles and about half on half off at 1600 to 2000 rpm. the wire to ground is ok. I know the ICV is bad. still have to test the oil pressure switch, wires and relay. If the car is running and you unplug the ICV, does it do anything? IIRC the quick and dirty test is if the idle goes way up then its good. If it does nothing, its bad. On 9/27/2010 12:16 PM, Dieselhead wrote: 85 380SL After the 12v test passed and I was stumped, I printed the 18 page page troubleshooting pdf to plan my attack without the special tools. Put the wires back on the ICV to start the engine and do the test of the vacuum switch. No start, so obviously the ICV did not open up. tapped on it and tried starting again. So, now I know I have a bad ICV. Tested the vacuum switch. no joy, it did nothing. At this point, I think the troubleshooting should be suspended until I find a junkyard were I can get a ICV and the #21, Idle control (box/computer/relay). Most of the remaining trouble shooting ends with replace the idle control and the only other thing is the oil pressure switch, and that I can check when replacing the idle control with a junkyard find. (Jump pin 6 to ground.) The other trick is to FIND it. The pdf shoes it on the firewall near the brake booster. Not on this car. Probably under the pass side dash. So I am off to find a junker... ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.856 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3162 - Release Date: 09/27/10 01:34:00 -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK 95 E300, 94 S500, 92 500SEL, 92 300SD, 92 300E 4Matic, 91 350SDL, 91 300D, 89 560SEL, 87 300SDL x2, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro, 85 190D, 84 190D, 84 300D euro manny, 76 240D, 76 300D, http://www.okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Nother 107 gasser Q (380SL)
Tried hunting vacuum leaks later today. The boots for the ICV are a little loose. I pulled the one off that goes straight down from the straight end of the ICV. in the end, the idle is now higher, about 2500. There is some form of boot that goes under what I would call the throttle body (it is where the air cleaner goes on) that I must have cracked when I was putting things back together. What all do you have to have in terms of parts, gaskets, copper or aluminum ring gaskets to take this apart and put it back together again? I can't take it apart if I don't have the parts in hand, cause I need to leave in a couple of days. If the car is running and you unplug the ICV, does it do anything? IIRC the quick and dirty test is if the idle goes way up then its good. If it does nothing, its bad. On 9/27/2010 12:16 PM, Dieselhead wrote: 85 380SL After the 12v test passed and I was stumped, I printed the 18 page page troubleshooting pdf to plan my attack without the special tools. Put the wires back on the ICV to start the engine and do the test of the vacuum switch. No start, so obviously the ICV did not open up. tapped on it and tried starting again. So, now I know I have a bad ICV. Tested the vacuum switch. no joy, it did nothing. At this point, I think the troubleshooting should be suspended until I find a junkyard were I can get a ICV and the #21, Idle control (box/computer/relay). Most of the remaining trouble shooting ends with replace the idle control and the only other thing is the oil pressure switch, and that I can check when replacing the idle control with a junkyard find. (Jump pin 6 to ground.) The other trick is to FIND it. The pdf shoes it on the firewall near the brake booster. Not on this car. Probably under the pass side dash. So I am off to find a junker... ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Nother 107 gasser Q (380SL)
there is still a possibility that the wires are hooked to the ICV backwards, as it does not have an original plug, but red individual crimp on connectors. there does not appear to be any orienting lug on the ICV, so I tend to think the it does not matter as to polarity. But that is an untested theory. It may be polarized. I think there's a male on the connector that goes into a female on the valve. Take a look. Better yet, try the pins both ways 'round and see if it makes a difference. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Nother 107 gasser Q (380SL)
other trick is to FIND it. The pdf shoes it on the firewall near the brake booster. Not on this car. Probably under the pass side dash. Yup. See: http://userweb.windwireless.net/~jimc/SL2log.html#21Aug2007 -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Nother 107 gasser Q (380SL)
OK, I pulled off the wires, and one terminal came off the wire. pulled out the idle speed control/motor and looked at it. there was a 12v pulse signal at the hot wire and the other appeared to have continuity to ground. all the hoses and vac look ok. So I thought maybe the wire that came off had not been making connection. repaired the terminal and put that wire on the bottom pin as it had been. There does not seem to be any polarity, so reversing the wires probably won't matter? Or will it matter? put it all together and started the car, hoping the one wire was the culprit. Went to 1600 RPM immediately. 800 when in D or R. cycled through gears several times. only difference is that when the trans is in Neutral or P, rpm rises as the engine heats up. So 1600 to 2000 in N or P 800 in gear D or R. Same as before. Did not do the 12v test to the pins with the wires removed yet. That is next. The pulse signal seems to be off about the same as on, and about 1 pulse a sec, just guessing. No fancy electrical intruments. I am thinking that the OVP and idle relay are ok. Likely that the idle speed control/motor is defective. the 12v test might indicate something, if it does not kill the engine. Thoughts? You're right on Fred... most likely an issue with the idle control. The idle valve looks like this: http://www.autohausaz.com/secure/PartImages/0001411225.jpg Take a look at it and all the rubber hoses that connect it. Anything dried or up cracked should be replaced. Most likely, it all needs to be replaced, along with all the rubber vacuum line fittings. This is a good place to start and might cure lots of running issues with the car. The parts are not too expensive and you just replace each part one at a time to avoid mixing things up. Note that the vacuum line arrangements are different from model year to model year, so if you get a diagram, make sure its for a 1985 US model car only. I believe if you remove the idle valve and rotate it back and forth in your hand, you should hear the valve inside open and close. You can try cleaning it out with your favorite spray stuff and see if it helps. My experience is that it doesn't work for long if you do clean it. There is a controller for the idle valve, but I'm not too familiar with the specifics. The factory service CD will be very helpful to you in diagnosing this one. Jaime On Fri, Sep 24, 2010 at 2:36 PM, Frederick W Moir fred.s...@verizon.net wrote: D'head. Air leak, or stuck idle control motor? I know nada about the 380SL's fuel system. Fred Moir Lynn MA Diesel preferred. On 9/24/2010 1:27 PM, Dieselhead wrote: this car seems to idle very high when it is in neutral. It is like the high idle never goes to normal idle. When you start the engine, it goes to about 2000 rpm and stays there. When you put it into D or R, the engine slows enough to be ok. I did not check the tach, but I would say 750 to 1000. as soon as you take it out of gear, the RPMS go up to 2000. Thoroughly warmed up engine... I think I heard once that this is an electric problem to do with one or two relays. Can anyone point me to the right relays? No, blipping the throttle does not get it off the high idle. EVER. TIA Still 85 380SL ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Nother 107 gasser Q (380SL)
Fred - Sound to me like the cold engine sensor is not working. Did you get the pdf file that I sent you (07.3-112.pdf 2Mb) early Saturday AM? It was the file that Jamie was referring to. Not sure how your SL is set up but on my '81 there is a temperature sensor in the back of the right cylinder Head that is used by the idle speed computer to give you fast idle when the engine is cold. When the engine warms up the sensor (closes?) and sends a signal to the idle speed computer so that the idle speed then drops to normal. As I recall the test to see if that circuit and sensor is working was just to pull off the connector from the sensor. That should equal fast idle. Short the connector should drop to warm idle. Don't trust my memory read the pdf before you try that. Also I think I remember seeing that in the later 116 engines they used oil temperature instead of water temp. but that would be in the pdf. Let me know if you didn't get the file and I'll try to send it again. I can break it into 2 smaller files if your mail server choked on the 2Mb file. Barry Went to 1600 RPM immediately ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Nother 107 gasser Q (380SL)
Uh, that was my SL question. No, I didn't get a pdf. send it to 126die...@gmail.com thanks. Fred - Sound to me like the cold engine sensor is not working. Did you get the pdf file that I sent you (07.3-112.pdf 2Mb) early Saturday AM? It was the file that Jamie was referring to. Not sure how your SL is set up but on my '81 there is a temperature sensor in the back of the right cylinder Head that is used by the idle speed computer to give you fast idle when the engine is cold. When the engine warms up the sensor (closes?) and sends a signal to the idle speed computer so that the idle speed then drops to normal. As I recall the test to see if that circuit and sensor is working was just to pull off the connector from the sensor. That should equal fast idle. Short the connector should drop to warm idle. Don't trust my memory read the pdf before you try that. Also I think I remember seeing that in the later 116 engines they used oil temperature instead of water temp. but that would be in the pdf. Let me know if you didn't get the file and I'll try to send it again. I can break it into 2 smaller files if your mail server choked on the 2Mb file. Barry Went to 1600 RPM immediately ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Nother 107 gasser Q (380SL)
Well guess what: Rusty's website says that idle control valve is $800 or more at the friendly local stealership. Only $350 from Rust man. for a $25 part. Ok, to be fair if I call him he will probably sell it for less, but $300 is still a lot of money to slow down the idle. How bout I stuff a 20 cent faucet washer in there? Then it might idle too rich? I can always drill out the hole to get more air through. I will test the Idle control unit tomorrow to see if 12v kills the engine. I will try to figure out/find the sensor Barry talks about. That is what I thought i should be looking for from the beginning. Just a little thermo that is supposed to say ok, I am warm now so the idle speed drops. grumble stupid gassers. by the time I get done with this, I might be able to diagnose 116 gassers. /grumble I did see a vacuum sensor buried inside the front side of the Rt head. I'll look on the right hinterkopf tomorrow to see if I find an elektrik thermo switch there.. Fred - Sound to me like the cold engine sensor is not working. Did you get the pdf file that I sent you (07.3-112.pdf 2Mb) early Saturday AM? It was the file that Jamie was referring to. Not sure how your SL is set up but on my '81 there is a temperature sensor in the back of the right cylinder Head that is used by the idle speed computer to give you fast idle when the engine is cold. When the engine warms up the sensor (closes?) and sends a signal to the idle speed computer so that the idle speed then drops to normal. As I recall the test to see if that circuit and sensor is working was just to pull off the connector from the sensor. That should equal fast idle. Short the connector should drop to warm idle. Don't trust my memory read the pdf before you try that. Also I think I remember seeing that in the later 116 engines they used oil temperature instead of water temp. but that would be in the pdf. Let me know if you didn't get the file and I'll try to send it again. I can break it into 2 smaller files if your mail server choked on the 2Mb file. Barry Went to 1600 RPM immediately ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Nother 107 gasser Q (380SL) OT Caravan
Dieselhead wrote: Wonder if i can drill a hole in it and then thread in one of those self-tapping drain plugs, or even a metal building screw with the washer and neoprene seal. The plug may cause an imbalance, but I doubt the screw would cause significant imbalance.I guess I could put in 2 plugs/screws 180 degrees apart. I suppose the clearance to the vanes may be too close. Anyone cut a modern TC open? Sounds like a good way to make a leak. When a friend of mine burned the fluid in his Caravan, (one generation before yours) I changed the filter, unhooked the cooler line to the radiator, plugged the cooler line into a clear vinyl hose, and let the engine idle until the fluid coming out suddenly changed from brown to pink. Apparently it did not mix in the torque converter, the new fluid pushed out the old, and the change was obvious when the old was gone and the new started coming out. Then I hooked up an axillary cooler and adjusted the fluid level. The tranny held up for as long as they owned the van, but I think that was only a couple of years after I installed the cooler. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Nother 107 gasser Q (380SL) OT Caravan
Ah! good idea. If the fluid/pan look bad, i will use that trick. Dieselhead wrote: Wonder if i can drill a hole in it and then thread in one of those self-tapping drain plugs, or even a metal building screw with the washer and neoprene seal. The plug may cause an imbalance, but I doubt the screw would cause significant imbalance.I guess I could put in 2 plugs/screws 180 degrees apart. I suppose the clearance to the vanes may be too close. Anyone cut a modern TC open? Sounds like a good way to make a leak. When a friend of mine burned the fluid in his Caravan, (one generation before yours) I changed the filter, unhooked the cooler line to the radiator, plugged the cooler line into a clear vinyl hose, and let the engine idle until the fluid coming out suddenly changed from brown to pink. Apparently it did not mix in the torque converter, the new fluid pushed out the old, and the change was obvious when the old was gone and the new started coming out. Then I hooked up an axillary cooler and adjusted the fluid level. The tranny held up for as long as they owned the van, but I think that was only a couple of years after I installed the cooler. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Nother 107 gasser Q (380SL)
Its probably the idle control relay, Im not sure where its going to be on a 107, but on a 126 its between the 2 firewalls. It will say 8zyl on it On 9/24/2010 12:27 PM, Dieselhead wrote: this car seems to idle very high when it is in neutral. It is like the high idle never goes to normal idle. When you start the engine, it goes to about 2000 rpm and stays there. When you put it into D or R, the engine slows enough to be ok. I did not check the tach, but I would say 750 to 1000. as soon as you take it out of gear, the RPMS go up to 2000. Thoroughly warmed up engine... I think I heard once that this is an electric problem to do with one or two relays. Can anyone point me to the right relays? No, blipping the throttle does not get it off the high idle. EVER. TIA Still 85 380SL ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK 95 E300, 94 S500, 92 500SEL, 92 300SD, 92 300E 4Matic, 91 350SDL, 91 300D, 89 560SEL, 87 300SDL x2, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro, 85 190D, 84 190D, 84 300D euro manny, 76 240D, 76 300D, http://www.okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Nother 107 gasser Q (380SL)
Any way to check the OVP relay, other than looking at the fuse? Measure the voltage coming off of it? So the wires are fed power by the OVP relay? The computer that monitors and regulates idle speed is powered by the OVP. The computer (idle speed 'relay') powers the valve. So if I could figure out which one is supposed to be hot, then jump +12v to it, then the idle slows down, Usually if you power the idle actuator separately the engine dies. It needs _some_ air at idle! Don't try to push power in while the relay is connected. Unless you maybe want to fry it. Killing the engine with the actuator is one way to test its ability to cork off all the way. gets a heat signal from somewhere to close the circuit Not that simple. There's a microcontroller in there. It eats the tach signal and the idle throttle switch, and modulates the PWM duty cycle to the idle actuator to keep the idle RPM in spec. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Nother 107 gasser Q (380SL)
Thanks for the clue. I may be sending you an email to see if you have one for sale. Or maybe that realy and an OVP relay. Now I think I have all the pieses out together to understand how it is supposed to funtion, how to find the parts, and how to diagnose it Man~ana.(mon-yon-a) Kaleb sez: Its probably the idle control relay, Im not sure where its going to be on a 107, but on a 126 its between the 2 firewalls. It will say 8zyl on it ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Nother 107 gasser Q (380SL)
Oh Man! Now you went and messed up what I thought I understood! I will see what I can figger out tomorrow. Whats a PWM? the PKW PWM, Of course! I know it is on a PKW, but I don't know what the PWM Is. PassWordMonitor? Ich Schpraken ze Dumkopf? Any way to check the OVP relay, other than looking at the fuse? Measure the voltage coming off of it? So the wires are fed power by the OVP relay? The computer that monitors and regulates idle speed is powered by the OVP. The computer (idle speed 'relay') powers the valve. So if I could figure out which one is supposed to be hot, then jump +12v to it, then the idle slows down, Usually if you power the idle actuator separately the engine dies. It needs _some_ air at idle! Don't try to push power in while the relay is connected. Unless you maybe want to fry it. Killing the engine with the actuator is one way to test its ability to cork off all the way. gets a heat signal from somewhere to close the circuit Not that simple. There's a microcontroller in there. It eats the tach signal and the idle throttle switch, and modulates the PWM duty cycle to the idle actuator to keep the idle RPM in spec. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Nother 107 gasser Q (380SL)
On Sat, 25 Sep 2010 14:59:52 -0500 Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com wrote: Oh Man! Now you went and messed up what I thought I understood! I will see what I can figger out tomorrow. Whats a PWM? the PKW PWM, Of course! I know it is on a PKW, but I don't know what the PWM Is. PassWordMonitor? Ich Schpraken ze Dumkopf? Ja, du sprichts wie ein Dumkopf. PWM = Pulse Width Modulation It's a standard way to vary the average signal to something while reducing power dissipation in the switch by having it only totally on or totally off. Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
[MBZ] Nother 107 gasser Q (380SL)
this car seems to idle very high when it is in neutral. It is like the high idle never goes to normal idle. When you start the engine, it goes to about 2000 rpm and stays there. When you put it into D or R, the engine slows enough to be ok. I did not check the tach, but I would say 750 to 1000. as soon as you take it out of gear, the RPMS go up to 2000. Thoroughly warmed up engine... I think I heard once that this is an electric problem to do with one or two relays. Can anyone point me to the right relays? No, blipping the throttle does not get it off the high idle. EVER. TIA Still 85 380SL ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Nother 107 gasser Q (380SL)
D'head. Air leak, or stuck idle control motor? I know nada about the 380SL's fuel system. Fred Moir Lynn MA Diesel preferred. On 9/24/2010 1:27 PM, Dieselhead wrote: this car seems to idle very high when it is in neutral. It is like the high idle never goes to normal idle. When you start the engine, it goes to about 2000 rpm and stays there. When you put it into D or R, the engine slows enough to be ok. I did not check the tach, but I would say 750 to 1000. as soon as you take it out of gear, the RPMS go up to 2000. Thoroughly warmed up engine... I think I heard once that this is an electric problem to do with one or two relays. Can anyone point me to the right relays? No, blipping the throttle does not get it off the high idle. EVER. TIA Still 85 380SL ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Nother 107 gasser Q (380SL)
You're right on Fred... most likely an issue with the idle control. The idle valve looks like this: http://www.autohausaz.com/secure/PartImages/0001411225.jpg Take a look at it and all the rubber hoses that connect it. Anything dried or up cracked should be replaced. Most likely, it all needs to be replaced, along with all the rubber vacuum line fittings. This is a good place to start and might cure lots of running issues with the car. The parts are not too expensive and you just replace each part one at a time to avoid mixing things up. Note that the vacuum line arrangements are different from model year to model year, so if you get a diagram, make sure its for a 1985 US model car only. I believe if you remove the idle valve and rotate it back and forth in your hand, you should hear the valve inside open and close. You can try cleaning it out with your favorite spray stuff and see if it helps. My experience is that it doesn't work for long if you do clean it. There is a controller for the idle valve, but I'm not too familiar with the specifics. The factory service CD will be very helpful to you in diagnosing this one. Jaime On Fri, Sep 24, 2010 at 2:36 PM, Frederick W Moir fred.s...@verizon.net wrote: D'head. Air leak, or stuck idle control motor? I know nada about the 380SL's fuel system. Fred Moir Lynn MA Diesel preferred. On 9/24/2010 1:27 PM, Dieselhead wrote: this car seems to idle very high when it is in neutral. It is like the high idle never goes to normal idle. When you start the engine, it goes to about 2000 rpm and stays there. When you put it into D or R, the engine slows enough to be ok. I did not check the tach, but I would say 750 to 1000. as soon as you take it out of gear, the RPMS go up to 2000. Thoroughly warmed up engine... I think I heard once that this is an electric problem to do with one or two relays. Can anyone point me to the right relays? No, blipping the throttle does not get it off the high idle. EVER. TIA Still 85 380SL ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Nother 107 gasser Q (380SL)
Check the condition of the idle control valve, make sure it's plugged in, and that the hoses are good. Clean it with brake parts cleaner if the hoses are bad -- block one side, fill it up, shake it a bit, dump out the solvent, repeat until it's not dirty after shaking. Check for other vacuum leaks as well -- manifold gaskets, seal between manifold halves, air flow meter boot (that one is a pain). Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Nother 107 gasser Q (380SL)
Idle air controller isn't able to shut down quite enough to keep enough air out to keep the RPM's down when unloaded? Could be air leaks, cloggy valve, or even the controller messing up. But if the controller _does_ work under load, it's probably a mechanical problem. (Unplug idle air valve, and if RPM is too high when under load too then it's a mechanical problem.) There is no high idle stop like on a carby car, throttle blips do nothing. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Nother 107 gasser Q (380SL) OT Caravan
I will work on the idle tomorrow or Sun afternoon. Decided to change the trans oil and filter on the 00 Dogde caravan tomorrow, before I mess with the SL again. Anyone BTDT on a caravan or other crypsler product? any gotchas? I think it should be as simple as on the SL, except that I don't thing the TC has a drain plug. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Nother 107 gasser Q (380SL)
Thanks for the picture. Where is it located? I assume somewhere under the massive air cleaner. What are the connections? are the small ones electric terminals or vacuum? If the small ones are vacuum, then what are the large 90degree openings to? Intake air? I thought I was told that the OVP relay played into this somehow? Where is the OVP relay on a 85 380SL? near the fuel pump relay under the passenger kick panel? I think it was OVP and another relay Where is this idle speed motor that Fred referred to? Once this afternoon while i drove it, the idle briefly acted like it was going to act correctly when i took it out of gear, then went back fast again immediately. You're right on Fred... most likely an issue with the idle control. The idle valve looks like this: http://www.autohausaz.com/secure/PartImages/0001411225.jpg Take a look at it and all the rubber hoses that connect it. Anything dried or up cracked should be replaced. Most likely, it all needs to be replaced, along with all the rubber vacuum line fittings. This is a good place to start and might cure lots of running issues with the car. The parts are not too expensive and you just replace each part one at a time to avoid mixing things up. Note that the vacuum line arrangements are different from model year to model year, so if you get a diagram, make sure its for a 1985 US model car only. I believe if you remove the idle valve and rotate it back and forth in your hand, you should hear the valve inside open and close. You can try cleaning it out with your favorite spray stuff and see if it helps. My experience is that it doesn't work for long if you do clean it. There is a controller for the idle valve, but I'm not too familiar with the specifics. The factory service CD will be very helpful to you in diagnosing this one. Jaime On Fri, Sep 24, 2010 at 2:36 PM, Frederick W Moir fred.s...@verizon.net wrote: D'head. Air leak, or stuck idle control motor? I know nada about the 380SL's fuel system. Fred Moir Lynn MA Diesel preferred. On 9/24/2010 1:27 PM, Dieselhead wrote: this car seems to idle very high when it is in neutral. It is like the high idle never goes to normal idle. When you start the engine, it goes to about 2000 rpm and stays there. When you put it into D or R, the engine slows enough to be ok. I did not check the tach, but I would say 750 to 1000. as soon as you take it out of gear, the RPMS go up to 2000. Thoroughly warmed up engine... I think I heard once that this is an electric problem to do with one or two relays. Can anyone point me to the right relays? No, blipping the throttle does not get it off the high idle. EVER. TIA Still 85 380SL ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Nother 107 gasser Q (380SL) OT Caravan
IIRC, yes - it's as simple as the SL. I also don't think the TC has a drain plug. On Fri, Sep 24, 2010 at 9:16 PM, Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com wrote: I will work on the idle tomorrow or Sun afternoon. Decided to change the trans oil and filter on the 00 Dogde caravan tomorrow, before I mess with the SL again. Anyone BTDT on a caravan or other crypsler product? any gotchas? I think it should be as simple as on the SL, except that I don't thing the TC has a drain plug. -- OK Don 2001 ML320 1992 300D 2.5T 1990 300D 2.5T 1997 Plymouth Grand Voyager ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Nother 107 gasser Q (380SL) OT Caravan
Wonder if i can drill a hole in it and then thread in one of those self-tapping drain plugs, or even a metal building screw with the washer and neoprene seal. The plug may cause an imbalance, but I doubt the screw would cause significant imbalance.I guess I could put in 2 plugs/screws 180 degrees apart. I suppose the clearance to the vanes may be too close. Anyone cut a modern TC open? IIRC, yes - it's as simple as the SL. I also don't think the TC has a drain plug. On Fri, Sep 24, 2010 at 9:16 PM, Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com wrote: I will work on the idle tomorrow or Sun afternoon. Decided to change the trans oil and filter on the 00 Dogde caravan tomorrow, before I mess with the SL again. Anyone BTDT on a caravan or other crypsler product? any gotchas? I think it should be as simple as on the SL, except that I don't thing the TC has a drain plug. -- OK Don 2001 ML320 1992 300D 2.5T 1990 300D 2.5T 1997 Plymouth Grand Voyager ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Nother 107 gasser Q (380SL)
Where is it located? I assume somewhere under the massive air cleaner. Yes. What are the connections? Two large air pipes, one to each side of the throttle plate. Two wires. I thought I was told that the OVP relay played into this somehow? Idle speed computer eats OVP power. No power equals fully open valve equals high idle RPM. Where is the OVP relay on a 85 380SL? near the fuel pump relay under the passenger kick panel? Think so. Where is this idle speed motor that Fred referred to? The solenoid valve is sometimes referred to as a motor. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Nother 107 gasser Q (380SL)
Ah! thanks much. Now it is starting to make sense. Any way to check the OVP relay, other than looking at the fuse? So the wires are fed power by the OVP relay? So if I could figure out which one is supposed to be hot, then jump +12v to it, then the idle slows down, I know the OVP or the other relay possibly between the OVP and the Idle speed control (or the wires) is bad? an idle speed control relay? gets a heat signal from somewhere to close the circuitfrom the OVP to the idle speed control. Jim, I vote for you as a national treasure. Where is it located? I assume somewhere under the massive air cleaner. Yes. What are the connections? Two large air pipes, one to each side of the throttle plate. Two wires. I thought I was told that the OVP relay played into this somehow? Idle speed computer eats OVP power. No power equals fully open valve equals high idle RPM. Where is the OVP relay on a 85 380SL? near the fuel pump relay under the passenger kick panel? Think so. Where is this idle speed motor that Fred referred to? The solenoid valve is sometimes referred to as a motor. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
