Re: [MBZ] OT - Fun with Water Heaters [resend]

[Craig via Mercedes]

On Tue, 31 Dec 2019 11:33:50 -0500 Floyd Thursby via Mercedes
 wrote:

> We have been fighting this stuff and have gained some traction but it
> is a struggle against big money.

May you be successful in driving away that kind of stuff.


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] OT - Fun with Water Heaters [resend]

[Craig via Mercedes]

On Tue, 31 Dec 2019 08:09:14 -0600 Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes
 wrote:

> Are you going to FSBO it?

We sold our house in Los Alamos by owner.

I even painted up some nice signs to put in front of the house and on the
major road at the end of the street.


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] OT - Fun with Water Heaters

[Craig via Mercedes]

On Tue, 31 Dec 2019 11:33:50 -0500 Floyd Thursby via Mercedes
 wrote:

> We have been fighting this stuff and have gained some traction but it
> is a struggle against big money.

May you be successful in driving away that kind of stuff.


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] OT - Fun with Water Heaters

[Craig via Mercedes]

On Tue, 31 Dec 2019 08:09:14 -0600 Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes
 wrote:

> Are you going to FSBO it?

We sold our house in Los Alamos by owner.

I even painted up some nice signs to put in front of the house and on the
major road at the end of the street.


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] OT - Fun with Water Heaters

[clay monroe via Mercedes]

Seattle is going the way of banning single family zoning as well.  They want 
density in the worst way, in hopes of ameliorating the extreme cost of shelter. 
 Banning new homes over 2000 square feet, allowing three housing units per lot, 
banning NG in new construction and trying to claw back existing NG to 
buildings.  Massive property tax hikes for ineffective transit buildout coupled 
with huge fees to license your car, and a swap from fuel tax to per mile tax on 
your car.

I am sort of blessed that my house is in an upscale area with all manner of 
desirable amenities within minutes by foot, or bike.  That should garner a 
stout sales price for SWMBA.  After spending a hefty sum to bring systems up to 
date (25 year old kitchen remodel, 20 yo roof, oak floor, interior paint, 
carpeting)

The socialist already tried to ban weapons, so now the cops are killing people 
for wielding cutlery.  “he attacked me with a soup spoon!"

clay monroe

I turned my computer upside down and shook it, but the bookmark for what I'm 
looking for didn't fall out.



> On Dec 31, 2019, at 4:44 AM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> There is a proposal in VA, now that one party has finally taken control of 
> the House, Senate, and Governorship, to enact a law banning single family 
> residential zoning. So no matter what you and your county government and 
> zoning board want, an apartment complex can go anywhere houses can go. How 
> many apartments could that developer put on 15 acres, and how much traffic 
> would that generate?
> 
> And they've prefiled a handful of gun bills that have 1-2 million Virginians 
> really upset. Upset to the point that over 90% of the county governments have 
> already enacted sanctuary provisions against bills that won't even be debated 
> until the legislative session begins next month. Several of the counties had 
> 1000-3000 people show up to the Board of Supervisors meetings where the 
> Sanctuary bills were voted on. When was the last time Rockingham County moved 
> the BoS meeting to a basketball court and 3000 people filled the bleachers to 
> demand they pass a law?
> Current map: 
> https://vcdl.org/resources/Pictures/Virginia-2A_Second-Amendment-Sanctuary-VCDLMap_12-29-2019.jpeg
> 
> Between the suburban NIMBYs and the gun owners, we could easily see 4 million 
> sincerely upset voters in a month or two. A guy I know went to a mini town 
> hall with the incoming leader of the House of Delegates. After he explained 
> to her why so many are against the proposed legislation, she told him the 
> bills were reasonable, common sense, necessary, had 90% support (more like 
> 90% opposition) and would be passed no matter what. 
> Mitch. 
> 
>> On December 31, 2019 at 6:24 AM Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
>>  wrote:
> 
>> Around here land is in short supply. One of the things the County is 
>> promoting is “suburban infill” which is a fancy term for subdividing small 
>> plots of land (10 acres, for example) that exist here and there and building 
>> 20 homes on it. It’s the bane of the surrounding property owners, as it 
>> often messes with their existing zoning.
> 
> ___
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> 
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> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 


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Re: [MBZ] OT - Fun with Water Heaters

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

Shouldn't be any more not allowed than firing up a 2000i generator and plugging 
the fridge into it. 
Sunny Boy has an optional outlet that you wire up in the garage. 
You turn it on manually and plug a cord into it. 
At least I don't know of any NEC requirements to disconnect the panels from the 
inverter in a power failure. 
There is a recent requirement to make it easy for firemen to shut the panels 
down, which would be easier to comply with if we had better options in the 
microinverter market. 

> On January 1, 2020 at 11:10 AM Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> Not allowed here if you’re doing net metering unless you have storage 
> batteries.
> > I don't know about Mrs Dan, but I bet Dan could make do nicely in a power 
> > failure with the 2000W emergency outlet on a Sunny Boy inverter, assuming 
> > it didn't brown out every time a cloud came by.

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Re: [MBZ] OT - Fun with Water Heaters

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

It means that in Florida if you’re net metering (selling unused power back to 
the utility) that if the utility goes offline, so does your solar array.

Unless - you have local storage as in a battery bank. If you don’t have local 
storage, your inverter is shut down when the utility goes dark.

This surprised many owners who didn’t do their due diligence researching how 
these systems work when hurricanes or outages occur. They thought they would 
just keep cruising along on their solar system when the utility went down. 
Nope! When the utility fails your system goes offline.

So now you have a roof full of PV panels making electricity you can’t use.

This is only one of the batsh*t crazy laws regarding solar systems we have in 
this state courtesy of the utilities, who own our legislature.

-D


 
> On Jan 1, 2020, at 12:19 PM, tyee165 via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> What does that mean?Sent from my Galaxy Tab® A
>  Original message From: Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
>  Date: 2020-01-01  10:10 AM  (GMT-06:00) To: Okie Benz 
>  Cc: Dan Penoff  Subject: Re: [MBZ] 
> OT - Fun with Water Heaters Not allowed here if you’re doing net metering 
> unless you have storage batteries.-D> On Jan 1, 2020, at 10:25 AM, Mitch 
> Haley via Mercedes  wrote:> > >> On December 31, 2019 
> at 2:13 PM Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes  wrote:>> >> 
> >> Dan, have you priced out solar PV panels for your roof?> > > I don't know 
> about Mrs Dan, but I bet Dan could make do nicely in a power failure with the 
> 2000W emergency outlet on a Sunny Boy inverter, assuming it didn't brown out 
> every time a cloud came by. > > Mitch.> > 
> ___> http://www.okiebenz.com> > To search 
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> delivery options go to:> 
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> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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> 


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Re: [MBZ] OT - Fun with Water Heaters

[tyee165 via Mercedes]

What does that mean?Sent from my Galaxy Tab® A
 Original message From: Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
 Date: 2020-01-01  10:10 AM  (GMT-06:00) To: Okie Benz 
 Cc: Dan Penoff  Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT 
- Fun with Water Heaters Not allowed here if you’re doing net metering unless 
you have storage batteries.-D> On Jan 1, 2020, at 10:25 AM, Mitch Haley via 
Mercedes  wrote:> > >> On December 31, 2019 at 2:13 PM 
Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes  wrote:>> >> >> Dan, have 
you priced out solar PV panels for your roof?> > > I don't know about Mrs Dan, 
but I bet Dan could make do nicely in a power failure with the 2000W emergency 
outlet on a Sunny Boy inverter, assuming it didn't brown out every time a cloud 
came by. > > Mitch.> > ___> 
http://www.okiebenz.com> > To search list archives 
http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options 
go to:> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com> 
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Re: [MBZ] OT - Fun with Water Heaters

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

Not allowed here if you’re doing net metering unless you have storage batteries.

-D

> On Jan 1, 2020, at 10:25 AM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> 
>> On December 31, 2019 at 2:13 PM Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> Dan, have you priced out solar PV panels for your roof?
> 
> 
> I don't know about Mrs Dan, but I bet Dan could make do nicely in a power 
> failure with the 2000W emergency outlet on a Sunny Boy inverter, assuming it 
> didn't brown out every time a cloud came by. 
> 
> Mitch.
> 
> ___
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> 
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> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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> 


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Re: [MBZ] OT - Fun with Water Heaters

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

> On December 31, 2019 at 2:13 PM Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> Dan, have you priced out solar PV panels for your roof?


I don't know about Mrs Dan, but I bet Dan could make do nicely in a power 
failure with the 2000W emergency outlet on a Sunny Boy inverter, assuming it 
didn't brown out every time a cloud came by. 

Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] OT - Fun with Water Heaters

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

Nope. Not going to.

We’ve had this discussion here before. While it makes total sense based on 
where I live, the utilities make it very difficult and not cost effective to do.

Once the other house is sold I’ll be searching for a standby generator for this 
place, but I’m not going to bother with solar. Until the utilities stop 
screwing around and preventing it form being a net gain for the consumer, I’ll 
stick with the infrastructure.

-D


> On Dec 31, 2019, at 2:13 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Dan, have you priced out solar PV panels for your roof?
> 
> On Tue, Dec 31, 2019 at 11:35 AM Floyd Thursby via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
>> I have 8.5 acres, high ground, marsh, and island which is fairly high
>> ground too.  Zoning is AG8 which is one house per 8 acres so unless the
>> zoning got changed that is it for houses.  I am in the County, there is
>> a lot of shadiness that goes on with zoning and development.  Part of
>> this Island is in the City of Charleston, having been annexed into the
>> City years ago.  Developers are buying land adjacent to the City and
>> annexing in, which increases zoning density by a large factor, and so
>> all manner of vinyl villages and apartments are being built now.  These
>> really aren't competition to my property, mine will take a special kind
>> of buyer, so this realtor I have has his work cut out for him.  I'm in
>> no rush, so that is in my favor.
>> 
>> The thing is, we are on a Sea Island, which some hundreds of thousands
>> of years ago was beachfront, so there are large dunes running across the
>> Island which were the beach front at different times as water levels
>> receded.  These are high ground, the highest is 24ft.  The rest of the
>> island is pretty low, from 10-16ft (i.e., the "Lowcountry") so it is
>> prone to flooding from storms and such.  A CAT2 or greater would flood a
>> good part of the Island.  So the developers buy up this land, which
>> historically was farm land, and clear cut the forests, muck out all the
>> organic spongy material that absorbs and controls water, then bring in
>> 6-10ft of high clay content fill material that is impervious basically,
>> like pavement, so the water runs off rapidly, either onto neighboring
>> properties that now flood, or directly into the marshes and rivers which
>> is toxic as the runoff has no dissolved oxygen in it.  These building
>> practices are a disaster, the houses are sh*tty, some of them actually
>> have foundations cracking due to the fill settling, before they are even
>> finished and have to be written off.  So that's a Big Deal.  We have
>> been fighting this stuff and have gained some traction but it is a
>> struggle against big money.
>> 
>> There's a lot more, but that is the jist of it.
>> 
>> --FT
>> 
>> On 12/31/19 6:24 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote:
>>> Yes, but you’ve got a fair amount of land, too, don’t you? That has to
>> be in your favor.
>>> 
>>> Around here land is in short supply. One of the things the County is
>> promoting is “suburban infill” which is a fancy term for subdividing small
>> plots of land (10 acres, for example) that exist here and there and
>> building 20 homes on it. It’s the bane of the surrounding property owners,
>> as it often messes with their existing zoning. For example, just to the
>> east of my old house is an area of 1 acre tracts that’s been there since
>> the 1950s. It’s populated with homes from that time period along with any
>> number of trailers and manufactured housing. It’s zoned RU-1, which is
>> rural/residential with lots no smaller than 1/2 acre. There’s a 15 acre
>> plot in the middle of their area that’s being sold to a developer who wants
>> to get it rezoned to put (originally) 30+ homes on it. The locals have
>> banded together and taken on the zoning commission and run the developer
>> off - twice. He’s back again with it pared down to 20 homes, which is still
>> a higher density than the existing zoning allows.
>>> 
>>> He’s already pussed out once on the latest hearing, asking for a
>> continuance and trying to wait out the locals, but they’ll continue to
>> challenge him as they’re well organized and pissed. I’ve lent them some
>> support myself as an adjacent landowner and spoken to and written the
>> County Commissioners, the one representing our area just happening to have
>> been my former customer at the school district.
>>> 
>>> County government does work around here, and if you’re well organized
>> and represented you’ve got a good chance of prevailing. This developer is
>> not ready to give up, but he’s seeing his plans get pared down bit by bit
>> to the point where it may not be profitable to pursue this much longer.
>>> 
>>> -D
>> 
>> --
>> --FT
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
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>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> 

Re: [MBZ] OT - Fun with Water Heaters

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

Dan, have you priced out solar PV panels for your roof?

On Tue, Dec 31, 2019 at 11:35 AM Floyd Thursby via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> I have 8.5 acres, high ground, marsh, and island which is fairly high
> ground too.  Zoning is AG8 which is one house per 8 acres so unless the
> zoning got changed that is it for houses.  I am in the County, there is
> a lot of shadiness that goes on with zoning and development.  Part of
> this Island is in the City of Charleston, having been annexed into the
> City years ago.  Developers are buying land adjacent to the City and
> annexing in, which increases zoning density by a large factor, and so
> all manner of vinyl villages and apartments are being built now.  These
> really aren't competition to my property, mine will take a special kind
> of buyer, so this realtor I have has his work cut out for him.  I'm in
> no rush, so that is in my favor.
>
> The thing is, we are on a Sea Island, which some hundreds of thousands
> of years ago was beachfront, so there are large dunes running across the
> Island which were the beach front at different times as water levels
> receded.  These are high ground, the highest is 24ft.  The rest of the
> island is pretty low, from 10-16ft (i.e., the "Lowcountry") so it is
> prone to flooding from storms and such.  A CAT2 or greater would flood a
> good part of the Island.  So the developers buy up this land, which
> historically was farm land, and clear cut the forests, muck out all the
> organic spongy material that absorbs and controls water, then bring in
> 6-10ft of high clay content fill material that is impervious basically,
> like pavement, so the water runs off rapidly, either onto neighboring
> properties that now flood, or directly into the marshes and rivers which
> is toxic as the runoff has no dissolved oxygen in it.  These building
> practices are a disaster, the houses are sh*tty, some of them actually
> have foundations cracking due to the fill settling, before they are even
> finished and have to be written off.  So that's a Big Deal.  We have
> been fighting this stuff and have gained some traction but it is a
> struggle against big money.
>
> There's a lot more, but that is the jist of it.
>
> --FT
>
> On 12/31/19 6:24 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote:
> > Yes, but you’ve got a fair amount of land, too, don’t you? That has to
> be in your favor.
> >
> > Around here land is in short supply. One of the things the County is
> promoting is “suburban infill” which is a fancy term for subdividing small
> plots of land (10 acres, for example) that exist here and there and
> building 20 homes on it. It’s the bane of the surrounding property owners,
> as it often messes with their existing zoning. For example, just to the
> east of my old house is an area of 1 acre tracts that’s been there since
> the 1950s. It’s populated with homes from that time period along with any
> number of trailers and manufactured housing. It’s zoned RU-1, which is
> rural/residential with lots no smaller than 1/2 acre. There’s a 15 acre
> plot in the middle of their area that’s being sold to a developer who wants
> to get it rezoned to put (originally) 30+ homes on it. The locals have
> banded together and taken on the zoning commission and run the developer
> off - twice. He’s back again with it pared down to 20 homes, which is still
> a higher density than the existing zoning allows.
> >
> > He’s already pussed out once on the latest hearing, asking for a
> continuance and trying to wait out the locals, but they’ll continue to
> challenge him as they’re well organized and pissed. I’ve lent them some
> support myself as an adjacent landowner and spoken to and written the
> County Commissioners, the one representing our area just happening to have
> been my former customer at the school district.
> >
> > County government does work around here, and if you’re well organized
> and represented you’ve got a good chance of prevailing. This developer is
> not ready to give up, but he’s seeing his plans get pared down bit by bit
> to the point where it may not be profitable to pursue this much longer.
> >
> > -D
>
> --
> --FT
>
>
>
> ___
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>
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>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] OT - Fun with Water Heaters

[Dwight Giles via Mercedes]

Sounds like a good plan, Dan

Dwight Giles Jr.
Wickford RI

On Tue, Dec 31, 2019, 9:54 PM dan--- via Mercedes 
wrote:

> Sort of.
>
> Because the market is very active here (2nd highest increase in home
> prices nationwide) we’re going to go with a fixed price broker. $400 will
> get us a year on MLS and full support from the brokerage as far as managing
> the listing and advice on pricing and comps.
>
> While we could likely sell doing a FSBO, and have done them in the past,
> there’s so much activity through brokers around here that it’s easy to be
> lost as an FSBO. Not only that, as you well know brokers typically won’t
> touch them since they won’t get a commission out of the deal.
>
> We’ve got a boatload of equity in the house, so we don’t mind giving up
> 2%-3% to a buyer’s broker to move the place. It’s a small price to pay to
> get the exposure that MLS will give us. A buyer could still contact us
> directly and avoid using a broker, too. We’ve got our handy real estate
> attorney friend four doors away who will handle the sale for us for a very
> reasonable fee.
>
> -D
>
> > On Dec 31, 2019, at 9:09 AM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> > Are you going to FSBO it?
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> >> On Dec 31, 2019, at 4:53 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> First of all, my apologies to Curley and others if I misunderstood.
> The real estate market here appears to be very different than yours. While
> I know that people are all about “new-new new!” as buyers, with the average
> age home being much less in years than in places like the Midwest and
> elsewhere that’s not as much of a driver for the marketability of a house.
> >>
> >> I think a lot of the “new-new-new” mentality comes from all of the HGTV
> remodeling shows that have what seems like everyone and their brother
> gutting their houses on a whim to encompass the latest and greatest styles
> and designs. I can’t help but wonder if places like the big box remodeling
> stores are behind a lot of this, as they’re the ones who stand to gain from
> it.
> >>
> >> In my immediate area you can find literally hundreds of new homes for
> sale on any given day. Development in this area has reached an insane pace,
> almost approaching the boom of the early 2000s. I see developments of
> 1600-2000 homes going up left and right, and they’re selling as quickly as
> they can put them up. If there’s a market for the “new-new-new!” folks it’s
> satisfied by these places, and we’ll never see those buyers looking at our
> house.
> >>
> >> However, with the way things are going, a buyer who wants in a house in
> short order, say less than 90 days, isn’t going to go that route. Inventory
> homes are rarely available, and the lead time on completion of a new home
> is easily 6-8 months from contract signing to occupancy, if not more. These
> are our buyers.
> >>
> >> Another thing on our side in the market is an established neighborhood
> with existing amenities and location. The billions of new homes being built
> are in areas where the infrastructure hasn’t been expanded to accommodate
> the influx of people, and as a result traffic and accessibility is nothing
> short of a nightmare. Those infrastructure upgrades will be years in the
> making, maybe as long as 6-8 years or more.
> >>
> >> I have a golf course, YMCA, little league, “A” rated elementary school
> and private park, all within walking distance. You won’t get those in a new
> development. Shopping at major stores is 5-10 minutes away, depending on
> where you want to shop. I’m just seven miles to the interstate and less
> than that to the Crosstown Expressway, a toll road going directly into
> downtown Tampa. Want to live in a new home? You’re looking at an hour
> commute to go 25 miles if you work in downtown Tampa. From my house
> depending on the time of day it’s roughly 30 minutes. We have a large
> contingent of military families here, thanks to being one of the highest
> rated areas by the BHO (Base Housing Office) at MacDill AFB, home of SOCOM.
> >>
> >> These are all things that make my neighborhood attractive in this
> market, and they’ve always been that way as long as we’ve been here. It’s
> one of the reasons why we built and bought here.
> >>
> >> Now - the “new-new-new!” folks will see our roof, AC and water heater
> as a plus, as other properties in the area that might be our competition
> won’t have their physical plants upgraded/replaced yet. With the age of
> most of these homes being in the early 20 year range, if these things
> haven’t been replaced, they’re at the threshold of needing to be. If I look
> at two roughly comparable homes, one that has a new roof and one that
> doesn’t, the one that will need a roof better be $20k less. If not, I’ll
> move on. That’s the average cost of a roof replacement around here. Brokers
> will definitely point this out to potential buyers. Paint is a 10 year
> item. 

Re: [MBZ] OT - Fun with Water Heaters

[dan--- via Mercedes]

Sort of.

Because the market is very active here (2nd highest increase in home prices 
nationwide) we’re going to go with a fixed price broker. $400 will get us a 
year on MLS and full support from the brokerage as far as managing the listing 
and advice on pricing and comps.

While we could likely sell doing a FSBO, and have done them in the past, 
there’s so much activity through brokers around here that it’s easy to be lost 
as an FSBO. Not only that, as you well know brokers typically won’t touch them 
since they won’t get a commission out of the deal.

We’ve got a boatload of equity in the house, so we don’t mind giving up 2%-3% 
to a buyer’s broker to move the place. It’s a small price to pay to get the 
exposure that MLS will give us. A buyer could still contact us directly and 
avoid using a broker, too. We’ve got our handy real estate attorney friend four 
doors away who will handle the sale for us for a very reasonable fee.

-D

> On Dec 31, 2019, at 9:09 AM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Are you going to FSBO it?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Dec 31, 2019, at 4:53 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> First of all, my apologies to Curley and others if I misunderstood. The 
>> real estate market here appears to be very different than yours. While I 
>> know that people are all about “new-new new!” as buyers, with the average 
>> age home being much less in years than in places like the Midwest and 
>> elsewhere that’s not as much of a driver for the marketability of a house.
>> 
>> I think a lot of the “new-new-new” mentality comes from all of the HGTV 
>> remodeling shows that have what seems like everyone and their brother 
>> gutting their houses on a whim to encompass the latest and greatest styles 
>> and designs. I can’t help but wonder if places like the big box remodeling 
>> stores are behind a lot of this, as they’re the ones who stand to gain from 
>> it.
>> 
>> In my immediate area you can find literally hundreds of new homes for sale 
>> on any given day. Development in this area has reached an insane pace, 
>> almost approaching the boom of the early 2000s. I see developments of 
>> 1600-2000 homes going up left and right, and they’re selling as quickly as 
>> they can put them up. If there’s a market for the “new-new-new!” folks it’s 
>> satisfied by these places, and we’ll never see those buyers looking at our 
>> house.
>> 
>> However, with the way things are going, a buyer who wants in a house in 
>> short order, say less than 90 days, isn’t going to go that route. Inventory 
>> homes are rarely available, and the lead time on completion of a new home is 
>> easily 6-8 months from contract signing to occupancy, if not more. These are 
>> our buyers.
>> 
>> Another thing on our side in the market is an established neighborhood with 
>> existing amenities and location. The billions of new homes being built are 
>> in areas where the infrastructure hasn’t been expanded to accommodate the 
>> influx of people, and as a result traffic and accessibility is nothing short 
>> of a nightmare. Those infrastructure upgrades will be years in the making, 
>> maybe as long as 6-8 years or more.
>> 
>> I have a golf course, YMCA, little league, “A” rated elementary school and 
>> private park, all within walking distance. You won’t get those in a new 
>> development. Shopping at major stores is 5-10 minutes away, depending on 
>> where you want to shop. I’m just seven miles to the interstate and less than 
>> that to the Crosstown Expressway, a toll road going directly into downtown 
>> Tampa. Want to live in a new home? You’re looking at an hour commute to go 
>> 25 miles if you work in downtown Tampa. From my house depending on the time 
>> of day it’s roughly 30 minutes. We have a large contingent of military 
>> families here, thanks to being one of the highest rated areas by the BHO 
>> (Base Housing Office) at MacDill AFB, home of SOCOM.
>> 
>> These are all things that make my neighborhood attractive in this market, 
>> and they’ve always been that way as long as we’ve been here. It’s one of the 
>> reasons why we built and bought here.
>> 
>> Now - the “new-new-new!” folks will see our roof, AC and water heater as a 
>> plus, as other properties in the area that might be our competition won’t 
>> have their physical plants upgraded/replaced yet. With the age of most of 
>> these homes being in the early 20 year range, if these things haven’t been 
>> replaced, they’re at the threshold of needing to be. If I look at two 
>> roughly comparable homes, one that has a new roof and one that doesn’t, the 
>> one that will need a roof better be $20k less. If not, I’ll move on. That’s 
>> the average cost of a roof replacement around here. Brokers will definitely 
>> point this out to potential buyers. Paint is a 10 year item. AC, 20 years. 
>> Water heater, 10 years.
>> 
>> We’ll list this house like we have others in the past. First, we’ll get an 
>> appraisal - a 

Re: [MBZ] OT - Fun with Water Heaters

[tyee165 via Mercedes]

A retired realtor friend says people buy lipstick. If the house is clean and 
they can haul in the couch and flop onto it to watch TV, they are happy and 
will ignore the need for things like a new roof.Sent from my Galaxy Tab® A
 Original message From: Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
 Date: 2019-12-30  8:17 PM  (GMT-06:00) To: Okie Benz 
 Cc: Dan Penoff  Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT 
- Fun with Water Heaters You’re talking out your butt and you don’t know this 
real estate market.Properties like my house are under contract around here in 
three days on average unless there’s something seriously wrong with the place. 
No one is going to demand a new roof when one was just done less than 18 months 
ago. Nor are they going to expect/demand a new heat pump when the one in the 
house is under two years old. Same with the water heater. That’s crazy talk. 
There are institutional investors in the wings with cash who will also come out 
of the woodwork to grab homes like this to add to their rental portfolio.With 
an average home age of 20 years in this area, if these items haven’t been 
addressed yet it’s huge ding on the value of the home and will seriously affect 
the marketability. With all of them done the house is good for another 20 
years.I don’t know what you’re smoking, but you need to cut it out.-D> On Dec 
30, 2019, at 9:09 PM, Curley McLain via Mercedes  
wrote:> > +1   Having just been through the mill, Mitch is exactly right.   Any 
potential buyer will want a new roof, new furnace, new WH, and probably new 
appliances, and they don't give a shite about efficiency or cost, as long as 
they don't have to buy the new roof/appliances.    Cheap, crappy, new trumps 
fantastic, efficient, and low operating cost every time.> > Chances are the 
potential buyer will make you replace your fantastic, efficient, and low 
operating cost hybrid WH before they will buy.   (and the relatively new roof)> 
> Buyers are idiots, egged on by agents and brokers who are morons on top of 
being idiots.>> Mitch Haley via Mercedes <mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>>> 
December 30, 2019 at 6:47 PM>> >> >> Nobody cares about performance anymore, 
they want new.>> Buy the above and put it in the house you're selling.>> Better 
yet, wait a month and buy one with a 2020 manufacturing date.>> If the hybrid 
is well maintained and working well for the foreseeable future, stick it in the 
house you're moving into.>> >> _> > ___> 
http://www.okiebenz.com> > To search list archives 
http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options 
go to:> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com> 
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Re: [MBZ] OT - Fun with Water Heaters

[Floyd Thursby via Mercedes]

I have 8.5 acres, high ground, marsh, and island which is fairly high 
ground too.  Zoning is AG8 which is one house per 8 acres so unless the 
zoning got changed that is it for houses.  I am in the County, there is 
a lot of shadiness that goes on with zoning and development.  Part of 
this Island is in the City of Charleston, having been annexed into the 
City years ago.  Developers are buying land adjacent to the City and 
annexing in, which increases zoning density by a large factor, and so 
all manner of vinyl villages and apartments are being built now.  These 
really aren't competition to my property, mine will take a special kind 
of buyer, so this realtor I have has his work cut out for him.  I'm in 
no rush, so that is in my favor.


The thing is, we are on a Sea Island, which some hundreds of thousands 
of years ago was beachfront, so there are large dunes running across the 
Island which were the beach front at different times as water levels 
receded.  These are high ground, the highest is 24ft.  The rest of the 
island is pretty low, from 10-16ft (i.e., the "Lowcountry") so it is 
prone to flooding from storms and such.  A CAT2 or greater would flood a 
good part of the Island.  So the developers buy up this land, which 
historically was farm land, and clear cut the forests, muck out all the 
organic spongy material that absorbs and controls water, then bring in 
6-10ft of high clay content fill material that is impervious basically, 
like pavement, so the water runs off rapidly, either onto neighboring 
properties that now flood, or directly into the marshes and rivers which 
is toxic as the runoff has no dissolved oxygen in it.  These building 
practices are a disaster, the houses are sh*tty, some of them actually 
have foundations cracking due to the fill settling, before they are even 
finished and have to be written off.  So that's a Big Deal.  We have 
been fighting this stuff and have gained some traction but it is a 
struggle against big money.


There's a lot more, but that is the jist of it.

--FT

On 12/31/19 6:24 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote:

Yes, but you’ve got a fair amount of land, too, don’t you? That has to be in 
your favor.

Around here land is in short supply. One of the things the County is promoting 
is “suburban infill” which is a fancy term for subdividing small plots of land 
(10 acres, for example) that exist here and there and building 20 homes on it. 
It’s the bane of the surrounding property owners, as it often messes with their 
existing zoning. For example, just to the east of my old house is an area of 1 
acre tracts that’s been there since the 1950s. It’s populated with homes from 
that time period along with any number of trailers and manufactured housing. 
It’s zoned RU-1, which is rural/residential with lots no smaller than 1/2 acre. 
There’s a 15 acre plot in the middle of their area that’s being sold to a 
developer who wants to get it rezoned to put (originally) 30+ homes on it. The 
locals have banded together and taken on the zoning commission and run the 
developer off - twice. He’s back again with it pared down to 20 homes, which is 
still a higher density than the existing zoning allows.

He’s already pussed out once on the latest hearing, asking for a continuance 
and trying to wait out the locals, but they’ll continue to challenge him as 
they’re well organized and pissed. I’ve lent them some support myself as an 
adjacent landowner and spoken to and written the County Commissioners, the one 
representing our area just happening to have been my former customer at the 
school district.

County government does work around here, and if you’re well organized and 
represented you’ve got a good chance of prevailing. This developer is not ready 
to give up, but he’s seeing his plans get pared down bit by bit to the point 
where it may not be profitable to pursue this much longer.

-D


--
--FT



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Re: [MBZ] OT - Fun with Water Heaters

[Meade Dillon via Mercedes]

They are attempting to re-create more paradise cities like San Francisco,
Seattle, LA, etc (read: rampant homelessness due to un-affordable housing).
-
Max
Charleston SC


On Tue, Dec 31, 2019 at 9:35 AM Dimitri Seretakis via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> I saw that VA proposal attempting to ban single family zoning. It’s
> absolutely outrageous. These idiots are chipping away at our country and
> our freedoms one bill at a time.
>
>
> https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.dailycaller.com/2019/12/23/virginia-house-zoning-environment
>
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] OT - Fun with Water Heaters

[Dimitri Seretakis via Mercedes]

I saw that VA proposal attempting to ban single family zoning. It’s absolutely 
outrageous. These idiots are chipping away at our country and our freedoms one 
bill at a time. 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.dailycaller.com/2019/12/23/virginia-house-zoning-environment

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 31, 2019, at 8:44 AM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> There is a proposal in VA, now that one party has finally taken control of 
> the House, Senate, and Governorship, to enact a law banning single family 
> residential zoning. So no matter what you and your county government and 
> zoning board want, an apartment complex can go anywhere houses can go. How 
> many apartments could that developer put on 15 acres, and how much traffic 
> would that generate?
> 
> And they've prefiled a handful of gun bills that have 1-2 million Virginians 
> really upset. Upset to the point that over 90% of the county governments have 
> already enacted sanctuary provisions against bills that won't even be debated 
> until the legislative session begins next month. Several of the counties had 
> 1000-3000 people show up to the Board of Supervisors meetings where the 
> Sanctuary bills were voted on. When was the last time Rockingham County moved 
> the BoS meeting to a basketball court and 3000 people filled the bleachers to 
> demand they pass a law?
> Current map: 
> https://vcdl.org/resources/Pictures/Virginia-2A_Second-Amendment-Sanctuary-VCDLMap_12-29-2019.jpeg
> 
> Between the suburban NIMBYs and the gun owners, we could easily see 4 million 
> sincerely upset voters in a month or two. A guy I know went to a mini town 
> hall with the incoming leader of the House of Delegates. After he explained 
> to her why so many are against the proposed legislation, she told him the 
> bills were reasonable, common sense, necessary, had 90% support (more like 
> 90% opposition) and would be passed no matter what. 
> Mitch. 
> 
>>> On December 31, 2019 at 6:24 AM Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
>>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Around here land is in short supply. One of the things the County is 
>> promoting is “suburban infill” which is a fancy term for subdividing small 
>> plots of land (10 acres, for example) that exist here and there and building 
>> 20 homes on it. It’s the bane of the surrounding property owners, as it 
>> often messes with their existing zoning.
> 
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 
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Re: [MBZ] OT - Fun with Water Heaters

[Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes]

Are you going to FSBO it?

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 31, 2019, at 4:53 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> First of all, my apologies to Curley and others if I misunderstood. The real 
> estate market here appears to be very different than yours. While I know that 
> people are all about “new-new new!” as buyers, with the average age home 
> being much less in years than in places like the Midwest and elsewhere that’s 
> not as much of a driver for the marketability of a house.
> 
> I think a lot of the “new-new-new” mentality comes from all of the HGTV 
> remodeling shows that have what seems like everyone and their brother gutting 
> their houses on a whim to encompass the latest and greatest styles and 
> designs. I can’t help but wonder if places like the big box remodeling stores 
> are behind a lot of this, as they’re the ones who stand to gain from it.
> 
> In my immediate area you can find literally hundreds of new homes for sale on 
> any given day. Development in this area has reached an insane pace, almost 
> approaching the boom of the early 2000s. I see developments of 1600-2000 
> homes going up left and right, and they’re selling as quickly as they can put 
> them up. If there’s a market for the “new-new-new!” folks it’s satisfied by 
> these places, and we’ll never see those buyers looking at our house.
> 
> However, with the way things are going, a buyer who wants in a house in short 
> order, say less than 90 days, isn’t going to go that route. Inventory homes 
> are rarely available, and the lead time on completion of a new home is easily 
> 6-8 months from contract signing to occupancy, if not more. These are our 
> buyers.
> 
> Another thing on our side in the market is an established neighborhood with 
> existing amenities and location. The billions of new homes being built are in 
> areas where the infrastructure hasn’t been expanded to accommodate the influx 
> of people, and as a result traffic and accessibility is nothing short of a 
> nightmare. Those infrastructure upgrades will be years in the making, maybe 
> as long as 6-8 years or more.
> 
> I have a golf course, YMCA, little league, “A” rated elementary school and 
> private park, all within walking distance. You won’t get those in a new 
> development. Shopping at major stores is 5-10 minutes away, depending on 
> where you want to shop. I’m just seven miles to the interstate and less than 
> that to the Crosstown Expressway, a toll road going directly into downtown 
> Tampa. Want to live in a new home? You’re looking at an hour commute to go 25 
> miles if you work in downtown Tampa. From my house depending on the time of 
> day it’s roughly 30 minutes. We have a large contingent of military families 
> here, thanks to being one of the highest rated areas by the BHO (Base Housing 
> Office) at MacDill AFB, home of SOCOM.
> 
> These are all things that make my neighborhood attractive in this market, and 
> they’ve always been that way as long as we’ve been here. It’s one of the 
> reasons why we built and bought here.
> 
> Now - the “new-new-new!” folks will see our roof, AC and water heater as a 
> plus, as other properties in the area that might be our competition won’t 
> have their physical plants upgraded/replaced yet. With the age of most of 
> these homes being in the early 20 year range, if these things haven’t been 
> replaced, they’re at the threshold of needing to be. If I look at two roughly 
> comparable homes, one that has a new roof and one that doesn’t, the one that 
> will need a roof better be $20k less. If not, I’ll move on. That’s the 
> average cost of a roof replacement around here. Brokers will definitely point 
> this out to potential buyers. Paint is a 10 year item. AC, 20 years. Water 
> heater, 10 years.
> 
> We’ll list this house like we have others in the past. First, we’ll get an 
> appraisal - a real appraisal, not a “market valuation”. That way we know 
> where a buyer has to be as far as financing. Then we’ll do a survey of 
> comparable sales in the immediate area for the last 12 months. With this 
> information, we’ll establish a fair price and list the property for that 
> amount. None of this “start high and work our way down.” The listing price 
> will be a reasonable amount for the property based on the data we’ve 
> collected. We might leave a little money on the table, but we’re more 
> interested in selling than making a windfall.
> 
> -D
> 
> 
>>> On Dec 30, 2019, at 10:58 PM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
 On December 30, 2019 at 9:30 PM Curley McLain via Mercedes 
  wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Exactly.   His market may be different that the rest of the country, 
>>> because of all the people fleeing stupid states and moving to FL wanting 
>>> to buy houses.   but he needs to consider it is exactly these people who 
>>> made their state of origin stupid.
>> 
>> I thought Dan bought that water heater 5-6 years ago, shortly after I bought 
>> my 

Re: [MBZ] OT - Fun with Water Heaters

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

There is a proposal in VA, now that one party has finally taken control of the 
House, Senate, and Governorship, to enact a law banning single family 
residential zoning. So no matter what you and your county government and zoning 
board want, an apartment complex can go anywhere houses can go. How many 
apartments could that developer put on 15 acres, and how much traffic would 
that generate?

And they've prefiled a handful of gun bills that have 1-2 million Virginians 
really upset. Upset to the point that over 90% of the county governments have 
already enacted sanctuary provisions against bills that won't even be debated 
until the legislative session begins next month. Several of the counties had 
1000-3000 people show up to the Board of Supervisors meetings where the 
Sanctuary bills were voted on. When was the last time Rockingham County moved 
the BoS meeting to a basketball court and 3000 people filled the bleachers to 
demand they pass a law?
Current map: 
https://vcdl.org/resources/Pictures/Virginia-2A_Second-Amendment-Sanctuary-VCDLMap_12-29-2019.jpeg

Between the suburban NIMBYs and the gun owners, we could easily see 4 million 
sincerely upset voters in a month or two. A guy I know went to a mini town hall 
with the incoming leader of the House of Delegates. After he explained to her 
why so many are against the proposed legislation, she told him the bills were 
reasonable, common sense, necessary, had 90% support (more like 90% opposition) 
and would be passed no matter what. 
Mitch. 

> On December 31, 2019 at 6:24 AM Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
 
> Around here land is in short supply. One of the things the County is 
> promoting is “suburban infill” which is a fancy term for subdividing small 
> plots of land (10 acres, for example) that exist here and there and building 
> 20 homes on it. It’s the bane of the surrounding property owners, as it often 
> messes with their existing zoning.

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Re: [MBZ] OT - Fun with Water Heaters

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

Yes, but you’ve got a fair amount of land, too, don’t you? That has to be in 
your favor.

Around here land is in short supply. One of the things the County is promoting 
is “suburban infill” which is a fancy term for subdividing small plots of land 
(10 acres, for example) that exist here and there and building 20 homes on it. 
It’s the bane of the surrounding property owners, as it often messes with their 
existing zoning. For example, just to the east of my old house is an area of 1 
acre tracts that’s been there since the 1950s. It’s populated with homes from 
that time period along with any number of trailers and manufactured housing. 
It’s zoned RU-1, which is rural/residential with lots no smaller than 1/2 acre. 
There’s a 15 acre plot in the middle of their area that’s being sold to a 
developer who wants to get it rezoned to put (originally) 30+ homes on it. The 
locals have banded together and taken on the zoning commission and run the 
developer off - twice. He’s back again with it pared down to 20 homes, which is 
still a higher density than the existing zoning allows.

He’s already pussed out once on the latest hearing, asking for a continuance 
and trying to wait out the locals, but they’ll continue to challenge him as 
they’re well organized and pissed. I’ve lent them some support myself as an 
adjacent landowner and spoken to and written the County Commissioners, the one 
representing our area just happening to have been my former customer at the 
school district.

County government does work around here, and if you’re well organized and 
represented you’ve got a good chance of prevailing. This developer is not ready 
to give up, but he’s seeing his plans get pared down bit by bit to the point 
where it may not be profitable to pursue this much longer.

-D




> On Dec 31, 2019, at 6:06 AM, Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> I’m going to put my house on the market soon. Some similarities here with 
> out-of-control development on fill-and-build tracts of too-low land that 
> needs 6 or 8ft of impervious fill to throw up sh*tty slab-on-grade low 
> quality vinyl villages that won’t likely survive the next big blow. That’s 
> not really my competition but it distorts the market by catering to the 
> younger comyahs who know nothing. 
> 
> --FT
> Sent from iPhone
> 
>> On Dec 31, 2019, at 5:53 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> First of all, my apologies to Curley and others if I misunderstood. The 
>> real estate market here appears to be very different than yours. While I 
>> know that people are all about “new-new new!” as buyers, with the average 
>> age home being much less in years than in places like the Midwest and 
>> elsewhere that’s not as much of a driver for the marketability of a house.
>> 
>> I think a lot of the “new-new-new” mentality comes from all of the HGTV 
>> remodeling shows that have what seems like everyone and their brother 
>> gutting their houses on a whim to encompass the latest and greatest styles 
>> and designs. I can’t help but wonder if places like the big box remodeling 
>> stores are behind a lot of this, as they’re the ones who stand to gain from 
>> it.
>> 
>> In my immediate area you can find literally hundreds of new homes for sale 
>> on any given day. Development in this area has reached an insane pace, 
>> almost approaching the boom of the early 2000s. I see developments of 
>> 1600-2000 homes going up left and right, and they’re selling as quickly as 
>> they can put them up. If there’s a market for the “new-new-new!” folks it’s 
>> satisfied by these places, and we’ll never see those buyers looking at our 
>> house.
>> 
>> However, with the way things are going, a buyer who wants in a house in 
>> short order, say less than 90 days, isn’t going to go that route. Inventory 
>> homes are rarely available, and the lead time on completion of a new home is 
>> easily 6-8 months from contract signing to occupancy, if not more. These are 
>> our buyers.
>> 
>> Another thing on our side in the market is an established neighborhood with 
>> existing amenities and location. The billions of new homes being built are 
>> in areas where the infrastructure hasn’t been expanded to accommodate the 
>> influx of people, and as a result traffic and accessibility is nothing short 
>> of a nightmare. Those infrastructure upgrades will be years in the making, 
>> maybe as long as 6-8 years or more.
>> 
>> I have a golf course, YMCA, little league, “A” rated elementary school and 
>> private park, all within walking distance. You won’t get those in a new 
>> development. Shopping at major stores is 5-10 minutes away, depending on 
>> where you want to shop. I’m just seven miles to the interstate and less than 
>> that to the Crosstown Expressway, a toll road going directly into downtown 
>> Tampa. Want to live in a new home? You’re looking at an hour commute to go 
>> 25 miles if you work in downtown Tampa. From my house depending on the time 

Re: [MBZ] OT - Fun with Water Heaters

[Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes]

I’m going to put my house on the market soon. Some similarities here with 
out-of-control development on fill-and-build tracts of too-low land that needs 
6 or 8ft of impervious fill to throw up sh*tty slab-on-grade low quality vinyl 
villages that won’t likely survive the next big blow. That’s not really my 
competition but it distorts the market by catering to the younger comyahs who 
know nothing. 

--FT
Sent from iPhone

> On Dec 31, 2019, at 5:53 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> First of all, my apologies to Curley and others if I misunderstood. The real 
> estate market here appears to be very different than yours. While I know that 
> people are all about “new-new new!” as buyers, with the average age home 
> being much less in years than in places like the Midwest and elsewhere that’s 
> not as much of a driver for the marketability of a house.
> 
> I think a lot of the “new-new-new” mentality comes from all of the HGTV 
> remodeling shows that have what seems like everyone and their brother gutting 
> their houses on a whim to encompass the latest and greatest styles and 
> designs. I can’t help but wonder if places like the big box remodeling stores 
> are behind a lot of this, as they’re the ones who stand to gain from it.
> 
> In my immediate area you can find literally hundreds of new homes for sale on 
> any given day. Development in this area has reached an insane pace, almost 
> approaching the boom of the early 2000s. I see developments of 1600-2000 
> homes going up left and right, and they’re selling as quickly as they can put 
> them up. If there’s a market for the “new-new-new!” folks it’s satisfied by 
> these places, and we’ll never see those buyers looking at our house.
> 
> However, with the way things are going, a buyer who wants in a house in short 
> order, say less than 90 days, isn’t going to go that route. Inventory homes 
> are rarely available, and the lead time on completion of a new home is easily 
> 6-8 months from contract signing to occupancy, if not more. These are our 
> buyers.
> 
> Another thing on our side in the market is an established neighborhood with 
> existing amenities and location. The billions of new homes being built are in 
> areas where the infrastructure hasn’t been expanded to accommodate the influx 
> of people, and as a result traffic and accessibility is nothing short of a 
> nightmare. Those infrastructure upgrades will be years in the making, maybe 
> as long as 6-8 years or more.
> 
> I have a golf course, YMCA, little league, “A” rated elementary school and 
> private park, all within walking distance. You won’t get those in a new 
> development. Shopping at major stores is 5-10 minutes away, depending on 
> where you want to shop. I’m just seven miles to the interstate and less than 
> that to the Crosstown Expressway, a toll road going directly into downtown 
> Tampa. Want to live in a new home? You’re looking at an hour commute to go 25 
> miles if you work in downtown Tampa. From my house depending on the time of 
> day it’s roughly 30 minutes. We have a large contingent of military families 
> here, thanks to being one of the highest rated areas by the BHO (Base Housing 
> Office) at MacDill AFB, home of SOCOM.
> 
> These are all things that make my neighborhood attractive in this market, and 
> they’ve always been that way as long as we’ve been here. It’s one of the 
> reasons why we built and bought here.
> 
> Now - the “new-new-new!” folks will see our roof, AC and water heater as a 
> plus, as other properties in the area that might be our competition won’t 
> have their physical plants upgraded/replaced yet. With the age of most of 
> these homes being in the early 20 year range, if these things haven’t been 
> replaced, they’re at the threshold of needing to be. If I look at two roughly 
> comparable homes, one that has a new roof and one that doesn’t, the one that 
> will need a roof better be $20k less. If not, I’ll move on. That’s the 
> average cost of a roof replacement around here. Brokers will definitely point 
> this out to potential buyers. Paint is a 10 year item. AC, 20 years. Water 
> heater, 10 years.
> 
> We’ll list this house like we have others in the past. First, we’ll get an 
> appraisal - a real appraisal, not a “market valuation”. That way we know 
> where a buyer has to be as far as financing. Then we’ll do a survey of 
> comparable sales in the immediate area for the last 12 months. With this 
> information, we’ll establish a fair price and list the property for that 
> amount. None of this “start high and work our way down.” The listing price 
> will be a reasonable amount for the property based on the data we’ve 
> collected. We might leave a little money on the table, but we’re more 
> interested in selling than making a windfall.
> 
> -D
> 
> 
>>> On Dec 30, 2019, at 10:58 PM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
 On December 30, 2019 at 9:30 PM Curley McLain via Mercedes 
  

Re: [MBZ] OT - Fun with Water Heaters

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

First of all, my apologies to Curley and others if I misunderstood. The real 
estate market here appears to be very different than yours. While I know that 
people are all about “new-new new!” as buyers, with the average age home being 
much less in years than in places like the Midwest and elsewhere that’s not as 
much of a driver for the marketability of a house.

I think a lot of the “new-new-new” mentality comes from all of the HGTV 
remodeling shows that have what seems like everyone and their brother gutting 
their houses on a whim to encompass the latest and greatest styles and designs. 
I can’t help but wonder if places like the big box remodeling stores are behind 
a lot of this, as they’re the ones who stand to gain from it.

In my immediate area you can find literally hundreds of new homes for sale on 
any given day. Development in this area has reached an insane pace, almost 
approaching the boom of the early 2000s. I see developments of 1600-2000 homes 
going up left and right, and they’re selling as quickly as they can put them 
up. If there’s a market for the “new-new-new!” folks it’s satisfied by these 
places, and we’ll never see those buyers looking at our house.

However, with the way things are going, a buyer who wants in a house in short 
order, say less than 90 days, isn’t going to go that route. Inventory homes are 
rarely available, and the lead time on completion of a new home is easily 6-8 
months from contract signing to occupancy, if not more. These are our buyers.

Another thing on our side in the market is an established neighborhood with 
existing amenities and location. The billions of new homes being built are in 
areas where the infrastructure hasn’t been expanded to accommodate the influx 
of people, and as a result traffic and accessibility is nothing short of a 
nightmare. Those infrastructure upgrades will be years in the making, maybe as 
long as 6-8 years or more.

I have a golf course, YMCA, little league, “A” rated elementary school and 
private park, all within walking distance. You won’t get those in a new 
development. Shopping at major stores is 5-10 minutes away, depending on where 
you want to shop. I’m just seven miles to the interstate and less than that to 
the Crosstown Expressway, a toll road going directly into downtown Tampa. Want 
to live in a new home? You’re looking at an hour commute to go 25 miles if you 
work in downtown Tampa. From my house depending on the time of day it’s roughly 
30 minutes. We have a large contingent of military families here, thanks to 
being one of the highest rated areas by the BHO (Base Housing Office) at 
MacDill AFB, home of SOCOM.

These are all things that make my neighborhood attractive in this market, and 
they’ve always been that way as long as we’ve been here. It’s one of the 
reasons why we built and bought here.

Now - the “new-new-new!” folks will see our roof, AC and water heater as a 
plus, as other properties in the area that might be our competition won’t have 
their physical plants upgraded/replaced yet. With the age of most of these 
homes being in the early 20 year range, if these things haven’t been replaced, 
they’re at the threshold of needing to be. If I look at two roughly comparable 
homes, one that has a new roof and one that doesn’t, the one that will need a 
roof better be $20k less. If not, I’ll move on. That’s the average cost of a 
roof replacement around here. Brokers will definitely point this out to 
potential buyers. Paint is a 10 year item. AC, 20 years. Water heater, 10 years.

We’ll list this house like we have others in the past. First, we’ll get an 
appraisal - a real appraisal, not a “market valuation”. That way we know where 
a buyer has to be as far as financing. Then we’ll do a survey of comparable 
sales in the immediate area for the last 12 months. With this information, 
we’ll establish a fair price and list the property for that amount. None of 
this “start high and work our way down.” The listing price will be a reasonable 
amount for the property based on the data we’ve collected. We might leave a 
little money on the table, but we’re more interested in selling than making a 
windfall.

-D


> On Dec 30, 2019, at 10:58 PM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
>> On December 30, 2019 at 9:30 PM Curley McLain via Mercedes 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> Exactly.   His market may be different that the rest of the country, 
>> because of all the people fleeing stupid states and moving to FL wanting 
>> to buy houses.   but he needs to consider it is exactly these people who 
>> made their state of origin stupid.
> 
> I thought Dan bought that water heater 5-6 years ago, shortly after I bought 
> my current house. 
> Mitch.
> 
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
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> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 

Re: [MBZ] OT - Fun with Water Heaters

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

> On December 30, 2019 at 9:30 PM Curley McLain via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> Exactly.   His market may be different that the rest of the country, 
> because of all the people fleeing stupid states and moving to FL wanting 
> to buy houses.   but he needs to consider it is exactly these people who 
> made their state of origin stupid.

I thought Dan bought that water heater 5-6 years ago, shortly after I bought my 
current house. 
Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] OT - Fun with Water Heaters

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

BTW, the "experts" don't evaluate a roof by looking at it on the roof. 
(and under the roof)  They look at a satellite picture, then try to 
figure out the worst case scenario for the roof.   THat goes on the 
report to the buyer and their agent.   It is completely bogus, but it is 
how they do it now.



Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
December 30, 2019 at 8:20 PM
I do not think Curley was talking specifics with your house, just 
making a point of how stupid people are these days, and he is not 
wrong about that.





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Re: [MBZ] OT - Fun with Water Heaters

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

Exactly.   His market may be different that the rest of the country, 
because of all the people fleeing stupid states and moving to FL wanting 
to buy houses.   but he needs to consider it is exactly these people who 
made their state of origin stupid.


I had 2 experienced agents tell me the same thing.  buyers don't give a 
rats ass about efficiency or operating cost.  They want everything new, 
painted fixed etc.   They are too dumb to paint a room, and too lazy to 
hire someone to paint.    Our selling experience bore this out.   We 
spent thousands and months fixing up everything and still got beat up 
badly.   To be fair, a large portion of that was due to the city's 
stupidity.


If there are more people fleeing high tax states wanting to buy his 
house, than houses available, then it is different.   But the buyers are 
still idiots, and they will still be egged on by agents and brokers who 
are as bad or worse.




Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
December 30, 2019 at 8:20 PM
I do not think Curley was talking specifics with your house, just 
making a point of how stupid people are these days, and he is not 
wrong about that.




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Re: [MBZ] OT - Fun with Water Heaters

[Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes]

I do not think Curley was talking specifics with your house, just making 
a point of how stupid people are these days, and he is not wrong about that.


On 12/30/2019 8:17 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote:

You’re talking out your butt and you don’t know this real estate market.

Properties like my house are under contract around here in three days on 
average unless there’s something seriously wrong with the place. No one is 
going to demand a new roof when one was just done less than 18 months ago. Nor 
are they going to expect/demand a new heat pump when the one in the house is 
under two years old. Same with the water heater. That’s crazy talk. There are 
institutional investors in the wings with cash who will also come out of the 
woodwork to grab homes like this to add to their rental portfolio.

With an average home age of 20 years in this area, if these items haven’t been 
addressed yet it’s huge ding on the value of the home and will seriously affect 
the marketability. With all of them done the house is good for another 20 years.

I don’t know what you’re smoking, but you need to cut it out.

-D




On Dec 30, 2019, at 9:09 PM, Curley McLain via Mercedes  
wrote:

+1   Having just been through the mill, Mitch is exactly right.   Any potential 
buyer will want a new roof, new furnace, new WH, and probably new appliances, 
and they don't give a shite about efficiency or cost, as long as they don't 
have to buy the new roof/appliances.Cheap, crappy, new trumps fantastic, 
efficient, and low operating cost every time.

Chances are the potential buyer will make you replace your fantastic, 
efficient, and low operating cost hybrid WH before they will buy.   (and the 
relatively new roof)

Buyers are idiots, egged on by agents and brokers who are morons on top of 
being idiots.

Mitch Haley via Mercedes 
December 30, 2019 at 6:47 PM


Nobody cares about performance anymore, they want new.
Buy the above and put it in the house you're selling.
Better yet, wait a month and buy one with a 2020 manufacturing date.
If the hybrid is well maintained and working well for the foreseeable future, 
stick it in the house you're moving into.

_

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Re: [MBZ] OT - Fun with Water Heaters

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

You’re talking out your butt and you don’t know this real estate market.

Properties like my house are under contract around here in three days on 
average unless there’s something seriously wrong with the place. No one is 
going to demand a new roof when one was just done less than 18 months ago. Nor 
are they going to expect/demand a new heat pump when the one in the house is 
under two years old. Same with the water heater. That’s crazy talk. There are 
institutional investors in the wings with cash who will also come out of the 
woodwork to grab homes like this to add to their rental portfolio.

With an average home age of 20 years in this area, if these items haven’t been 
addressed yet it’s huge ding on the value of the home and will seriously affect 
the marketability. With all of them done the house is good for another 20 years.

I don’t know what you’re smoking, but you need to cut it out.

-D



> On Dec 30, 2019, at 9:09 PM, Curley McLain via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> +1   Having just been through the mill, Mitch is exactly right.   Any 
> potential buyer will want a new roof, new furnace, new WH, and probably new 
> appliances, and they don't give a shite about efficiency or cost, as long as 
> they don't have to buy the new roof/appliances.Cheap, crappy, new trumps 
> fantastic, efficient, and low operating cost every time.
> 
> Chances are the potential buyer will make you replace your fantastic, 
> efficient, and low operating cost hybrid WH before they will buy.   (and the 
> relatively new roof)
> 
> Buyers are idiots, egged on by agents and brokers who are morons on top of 
> being idiots.
>> Mitch Haley via Mercedes 
>> December 30, 2019 at 6:47 PM
>> 
>> 
>> Nobody cares about performance anymore, they want new.
>> Buy the above and put it in the house you're selling.
>> Better yet, wait a month and buy one with a 2020 manufacturing date.
>> If the hybrid is well maintained and working well for the foreseeable 
>> future, stick it in the house you're moving into.
>> 
>> _
> 
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
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> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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> 


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Re: [MBZ] OT - Fun with Water Heaters

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

+1   Having just been through the mill, Mitch is exactly right.   Any 
potential buyer will want a new roof, new furnace, new WH, and probably 
new appliances, and they don't give a shite about efficiency or cost, as 
long as they don't have to buy the new roof/appliances.    Cheap, 
crappy, new trumps fantastic, efficient, and low operating cost every time.


Chances are the potential buyer will make you replace your fantastic, 
efficient, and low operating cost hybrid WH before they will buy.   (and 
the relatively new roof)


Buyers are idiots, egged on by agents and brokers who are morons on top 
of being idiots.

Mitch Haley via Mercedes 
December 30, 2019 at 6:47 PM


Nobody cares about performance anymore, they want new.
Buy the above and put it in the house you're selling.
Better yet, wait a month and buy one with a 2020 manufacturing date.
If the hybrid is well maintained and working well for the foreseeable 
future, stick it in the house you're moving into.


_


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Re: [MBZ] OT - Fun with Water Heaters

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

yes.  All you need for solar water heating (in summer or where it never 
freezes) is black pvc tubing laid out where the sun will heat it and a 
circ pump.  It can be on the roof, or on the ground/pavement, or 
anywhere else it will catch sun.   When/where freezing conditions exist, 
it gets a little more complicated.   There is science also to 
determining the dia and length of the tubing needed, but that can be 
trial and error.


On the roof, it can be a gravity hydronic system, without a circ pump.

Mitch Haley via Mercedes 
December 30, 2019 at 5:07 PM


Back around 1980, I saw plans in Popular Science for a very cheap 
solar heater.
It was, IIRC, a 100' coil of black poly pipe mounted to a black 
painted marine plywood box and affixed on the roof.
The same black poly pipe that transports potable water from my well to 
my house.
It was to be plumbed between the water supply and the water heater to 
preheat the input to the heater.

No need to drain it and bypass it for the winter in Pinellas.
And it sounds like Dan's already got the plumbing loop to the roof.


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Re: [MBZ] OT - Fun with Water Heaters

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

I’m not going through all the gyrations to swap stuff out of the old house, 
it’s just not worth the hassle. Everything in it is less than two years old, 
that's AC, exterior paint, water heater, carpet, etc., etc.

Close enough to make it a marketing plus.

-D


> On Dec 30, 2019, at 7:47 PM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> 
>> On December 30, 2019 at 6:34 PM Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
>>  wrote:
>> Energy guide for standard 50 gallon electric heater, roughly $500:
>> 
>> 
>> http://pdf.lowes.com/energyguides/035505002440.pdf
> 
> Nobody cares about performance anymore, they want new. 
> Buy the above and put it in the house you're selling.
> Better yet, wait a month and buy one with a 2020 manufacturing date. 
> If the hybrid is well maintained and working well for the foreseeable future, 
> stick it in the house you're moving into.
> 
> ___
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> 
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> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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Re: [MBZ] OT - Fun with Water Heaters

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

> On December 30, 2019 at 6:34 PM Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> Energy guide for standard 50 gallon electric heater, roughly $500:
> 
> 
> http://pdf.lowes.com/energyguides/035505002440.pdf

Nobody cares about performance anymore, they want new. 
Buy the above and put it in the house you're selling.
Better yet, wait a month and buy one with a 2020 manufacturing date. 
If the hybrid is well maintained and working well for the foreseeable future, 
stick it in the house you're moving into.

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Re: [MBZ] OT - Fun with Water Heaters

[Scott Ritchey via Mercedes]

Also need a condensate drain for hybrid water heater.

> -Original Message-
> From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of
> Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes
> Sent: Monday, December 30, 2019 6:51 PM
> To: Mercedes Discussion List 
> Cc: Kaleb Striplin 
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT - Fun with Water Heaters
> 
> I have never heard of these hybrid water heaters before so I looked into them.
> I like the idea but the problem here is our water heater is actually in its 
> own
> closet inside the house. The cold air it would vent in the winter would be a
> problem unless I installed some sort of vent to vent it into the attic space. 
> In
> the summer it would be great. Hmm.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> > On Dec 30, 2019, at 5:35 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes
>  wrote:
> >
> > The infrastructure is already 12+ years old and hasn’t been maintained. I
> would have to pretty much start from scratch.
> >
> > I want hot water without hassle. No:
> >
> > Penetrations in my roof
> > Circulation pumps
> > Having to drain down should freezing temperatures occur Potential for
> > damage in the event of a hurricane
> >
> > I’ll go with my hybrid heat pump water heater and get the free cooling for
> the garage. Do the math:
> >
> > Energy guide for standard 50 gallon electric heater, roughly $500:
> >
> > <035505002440.pdf>
> >
> > http://pdf.lowes.com/energyguides/035505002440.pdf
> >
> >
> > Energy guide for hybrid (heat pump) 50 gallon electric heater, roughly
> $1200:
> > <035505003348.pdf>
> >
> > http://pdf.lowes.com/energyguides/035505003348.pdf
> >
> > Mitch can put his pencil to paper and come up with the details if he’s so
> inclined, as he’s definitely good at that sort of thing, but the rough numbers
> would suggest that the payback is far better on the hybrid heater. And it even
> has better recovery.
> >
> > -D
> >
> >>> On Dec 30, 2019, at 6:07 PM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes
>  wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> On December 30, 2019 at 4:48 PM Andrew Strasfogel
>  wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> So what's wrong with installing a properly designed solar hot water
> heater?
> >>> Isn't the plumbing infrastructure already in place?
> >>
> >> Back around 1980, I saw plans in Popular Science for a very cheap solar
> heater.
> >> It was, IIRC, a 100' coil of black poly pipe mounted to a black painted 
> >> marine
> plywood box and affixed on the roof.
> >> The same black poly pipe that transports potable water from my well to my
> house.
> >> It was to be plumbed between the water supply and the water heater to
> preheat the input to the heater.
> >> No need to drain it and bypass it for the winter in Pinellas.
> >> And it sounds like Dan's already got the plumbing loop to the roof.
> >>
> >> ___
> >> http://www.okiebenz.com
> >>
> >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >>
> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >>
> >
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> >
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> >
> 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] OT - Fun with Water Heaters

[Scott Ritchey via Mercedes]

Interesting.  I've seen a lot of black iron pipe for natural gas but all the 
piping for my LP system is copper/brass/bronze (except for the stub going into 
the generator).  All this tubing is in a protected area (buried or in the 
crawlspace).

> -Original Message-
> From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of
> Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes
> Sent: Monday, December 30, 2019 12:16 PM
> To: Mercedes Discussion List 
> Cc: Kaleb Striplin 
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT - Fun with Water Heaters
> 
> That reminds of something. So my father is living in mi grandparents house.
> This is about a 100 year old house and they bought it in 71 or 72. My
> grandfather died in 91 and grandmother died in 03. Not too long before she
> died she hired a plumbing company to completely replace all of the gas lines
> under the house and paid probably $3k or so. A couple of weeks ago I was
> over there and immediately smelled natural gas. Of course my father did not.
> Nevertheless he had a plumber come check it out. Plumber says he has never
> seen gas lines so rusty and they are definitely original to the house. No way
> they were replaced in the early 00’s. They are supposed to replace them all
> this week.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> > On Dec 30, 2019, at 10:47 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes
>  wrote:
> >
> > Since most of the household is back to work today, I figured it would be a
> good time to do some maintenance on the hot water heater.
> >
> > A bit of a build-up:
> >
> > This (new) house was owned by a widow for probably 8 years after her
> husband (allegedly) offed himself. That’s a pretty bizarre story for another 
> day.
> Anyway, as you might suspect, she was prone to get sucked in by contractors
> as well as not maintain things as one should. One of her early “misses” was
> installing a solar water heater system. She did this when we still lived 
> across
> the street, so it was about 10 years ago at least. She pissed everyone in the
> neighborhood off, as she gave the contractor everyone’s contact information
> so they could come around and pitch their crap. That did not go over well.
> >
> > When she had the roof replaced a year ago she had the roofer remove the
> solar panel, yet they left the stub-ups for the water lines. WTF? So I’ve got 
> a
> new roof with a couple of pipes sticking out of it about a foot, but again, 
> that’s
> just another issue for the list that I keep…
> >
> > The water heater is really a glorified storage tank. It’s an 80 gallon 
> > American
> water heater with a closed loop that the solar panel’s water would circulate
> through. Funny, as when we moved in I heard this whirring sound in the
> garage. The circulating pump was still connected to the loop piping and
> running, despite everything being disconnected. Duh! Oh yeah - because it’s a
> solar storage tank, it’s only got one 4500W heating element in it, too. 
> Great. 80
> gallons of water and a 4500W heating element...
> >
> > I was sure the water heater had never been flushed, so I did my morning run
> to Home Despot/Lowe’s and got some brass parts to replace the usual crappy
> drain valves on most water heaters. 3/4” brass nipple, brass ball valve, hose
> adapter and a cap.
> >
> > I get home, turn power off to the heater, get the garden hose run out of the
> garage, open a couple of hot water faucets in the house and get ready to open
> the nylon/plastic drain valve.
> >
> > Nothing. Nada. Not a drip.
> >
> > Get the compressor and a spray gun with a rubber tip. Open the drain valve,
> hit it with 100 psi air, and BOOM! A huge blowout on my side. Water and
> probably a 1/2 cup of scale comes flying out of the drain and coats me. Nice,
> but progress.
> >
> > Nope. There’s so much scale in this thing it just clogs the valve right 
> > back up
> after I blow it clear.
> >
> > OK, so we’re going to play nasty, eh?
> >
> > Got out my spray can of Kroil and hosed down the joint between a nipple
> coming out of the tank and the nylon/plastic drain valve. I’m enjoying some
> lunch while the Kroil does it’s thing. I’ll go out shortly and see if I can 
> turn the
> valve loose. Earlier attempts yielded no movement.
> >
> > This could get ugly.
> >
> > -D
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> >
> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >
> 
> 
> 

Re: [MBZ] OT - Fun with Water Heaters

[Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes]

At our other house the water heater is in the garage which would be OK but in 
the winter mah not be as effective. At this house if some sort of vent could be 
installed that had some sort of diverted to vent the cold in the winter and 
direct in into the house in the summer. I wonder if that sort of setup would be 
possible. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 30, 2019, at 5:57 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> Yeah, that’s one of the issues with these being used in colder climates. 
> That and their efficiency drops off when the ambient goes down, too. In a 
> basement they seem to do OK but if they’re in the living quarters like in 
> your place it’s probably not the ideal setup.
> 
> I did a lot of research on these before I bought the one for the old house. 
> They’re definitely best for certain kinds of applications, but not all. More 
> heat = more efficient. That’s ideal in my climate, as the garage is always 
> warm even in the “winter”. Definitely made a difference in the energy 
> consumption. Between my new AC unit and the hybrid water heater, both 
> replaced at about the same time, my very worst electric bill went from 
> $275/month to maybe $150/month. That convinced me I made the right decision. 
> I wished I had known the new AC would make such a significant difference in 
> energy consumption, as I would have replaced it a long time ago.
> 
> -D
> 
>> On Dec 30, 2019, at 6:50 PM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> I have never heard of these hybrid water heaters before so I looked into 
>> them. I like the idea but the problem here is our water heater is actually 
>> in its own closet inside the house. The cold air it would vent in the winter 
>> would be a problem unless I installed some sort of vent to vent it into the 
>> attic space. In the summer it would be great. Hmm. 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
 On Dec 30, 2019, at 5:35 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
 mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> The infrastructure is already 12+ years old and hasn’t been maintained. I 
>>> would have to pretty much start from scratch.
>>> 
>>> I want hot water without hassle. No:
>>> 
>>> Penetrations in my roof
>>> Circulation pumps
>>> Having to drain down should freezing temperatures occur
>>> Potential for damage in the event of a hurricane
>>> 
>>> I’ll go with my hybrid heat pump water heater and get the free cooling for 
>>> the garage. Do the math:
>>> 
>>> Energy guide for standard 50 gallon electric heater, roughly $500:
>>> 
>>> <035505002440.pdf>
>>> 
>>> http://pdf.lowes.com/energyguides/035505002440.pdf 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Energy guide for hybrid (heat pump) 50 gallon electric heater, roughly 
>>> $1200:
>>> <035505003348.pdf>
>>> 
>>> http://pdf.lowes.com/energyguides/035505003348.pdf
>>> 
>>> Mitch can put his pencil to paper and come up with the details if he’s so 
>>> inclined, as he’s definitely good at that sort of thing, but the rough 
>>> numbers would suggest that the payback is far better on the hybrid heater. 
>>> And it even has better recovery.
>>> 
>>> -D
>>> 
> 
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 


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Re: [MBZ] OT - Fun with Water Heaters

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

Yeah, that’s one of the issues with these being used in colder climates. That 
and their efficiency drops off when the ambient goes down, too. In a basement 
they seem to do OK but if they’re in the living quarters like in your place 
it’s probably not the ideal setup.

I did a lot of research on these before I bought the one for the old house. 
They’re definitely best for certain kinds of applications, but not all. More 
heat = more efficient. That’s ideal in my climate, as the garage is always warm 
even in the “winter”. Definitely made a difference in the energy consumption. 
Between my new AC unit and the hybrid water heater, both replaced at about the 
same time, my very worst electric bill went from $275/month to maybe 
$150/month. That convinced me I made the right decision. I wished I had known 
the new AC would make such a significant difference in energy consumption, as I 
would have replaced it a long time ago.

-D

> On Dec 30, 2019, at 6:50 PM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> I have never heard of these hybrid water heaters before so I looked into 
> them. I like the idea but the problem here is our water heater is actually in 
> its own closet inside the house. The cold air it would vent in the winter 
> would be a problem unless I installed some sort of vent to vent it into the 
> attic space. In the summer it would be great. Hmm. 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Dec 30, 2019, at 5:35 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes > > wrote:
>> 
>> The infrastructure is already 12+ years old and hasn’t been maintained. I 
>> would have to pretty much start from scratch.
>> 
>> I want hot water without hassle. No:
>> 
>> Penetrations in my roof
>> Circulation pumps
>> Having to drain down should freezing temperatures occur
>> Potential for damage in the event of a hurricane
>> 
>> I’ll go with my hybrid heat pump water heater and get the free cooling for 
>> the garage. Do the math:
>> 
>> Energy guide for standard 50 gallon electric heater, roughly $500:
>> 
>> <035505002440.pdf>
>> 
>> http://pdf.lowes.com/energyguides/035505002440.pdf 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Energy guide for hybrid (heat pump) 50 gallon electric heater, roughly $1200:
>> <035505003348.pdf>
>> 
>> http://pdf.lowes.com/energyguides/035505003348.pdf
>> 
>> Mitch can put his pencil to paper and come up with the details if he’s so 
>> inclined, as he’s definitely good at that sort of thing, but the rough 
>> numbers would suggest that the payback is far better on the hybrid heater. 
>> And it even has better recovery.
>> 
>> -D
>> 

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Re: [MBZ] OT - Fun with Water Heaters

[Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes]

I have never heard of these hybrid water heaters before so I looked into them. 
I like the idea but the problem here is our water heater is actually in its own 
closet inside the house. The cold air it would vent in the winter would be a 
problem unless I installed some sort of vent to vent it into the attic space. 
In the summer it would be great. Hmm. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 30, 2019, at 5:35 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> The infrastructure is already 12+ years old and hasn’t been maintained. I 
> would have to pretty much start from scratch.
> 
> I want hot water without hassle. No:
> 
> Penetrations in my roof
> Circulation pumps
> Having to drain down should freezing temperatures occur
> Potential for damage in the event of a hurricane
> 
> I’ll go with my hybrid heat pump water heater and get the free cooling for 
> the garage. Do the math:
> 
> Energy guide for standard 50 gallon electric heater, roughly $500:
> 
> <035505002440.pdf>
> 
> http://pdf.lowes.com/energyguides/035505002440.pdf
> 
> 
> Energy guide for hybrid (heat pump) 50 gallon electric heater, roughly $1200:
> <035505003348.pdf>
> 
> http://pdf.lowes.com/energyguides/035505003348.pdf
> 
> Mitch can put his pencil to paper and come up with the details if he’s so 
> inclined, as he’s definitely good at that sort of thing, but the rough 
> numbers would suggest that the payback is far better on the hybrid heater. 
> And it even has better recovery.
> 
> -D
> 
>>> On Dec 30, 2019, at 6:07 PM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
 On December 30, 2019 at 4:48 PM Andrew Strasfogel  
 wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> So what's wrong with installing a properly designed solar hot water heater?
>>> Isn't the plumbing infrastructure already in place?
>> 
>> Back around 1980, I saw plans in Popular Science for a very cheap solar 
>> heater. 
>> It was, IIRC, a 100' coil of black poly pipe mounted to a black painted 
>> marine plywood box and affixed on the roof. 
>> The same black poly pipe that transports potable water from my well to my 
>> house. 
>> It was to be plumbed between the water supply and the water heater to 
>> preheat the input to the heater. 
>> No need to drain it and bypass it for the winter in Pinellas. 
>> And it sounds like Dan's already got the plumbing loop to the roof.
>> 
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
> 
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 


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Re: [MBZ] OT - Fun with Water Heaters

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

> On December 30, 2019 at 4:48 PM Andrew Strasfogel  
> wrote:
> 
> 
> So what's wrong with installing a properly designed solar hot water heater?
> Isn't the plumbing infrastructure already in place?

Back around 1980, I saw plans in Popular Science for a very cheap solar heater. 
It was, IIRC, a 100' coil of black poly pipe mounted to a black painted marine 
plywood box and affixed on the roof. 
The same black poly pipe that transports potable water from my well to my 
house. 
It was to be plumbed between the water supply and the water heater to preheat 
the input to the heater. 
No need to drain it and bypass it for the winter in Pinellas. 
And it sounds like Dan's already got the plumbing loop to the roof.

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Re: [MBZ] OT - Fun with Water Heaters

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

So what's wrong with installing a properly designed solar hot water heater?
Isn't the plumbing infrastructure already in place?

On Mon, Dec 30, 2019 at 4:46 PM Mitch Haley via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Time to put a new electric water heater in the old house, and put the old
> hybrid in the new house.
> Mitch.
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] OT - Fun with Water Heaters

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

Time to put a new electric water heater in the old house, and put the old 
hybrid in the new house. 
Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] OT - Fun with Water Heaters

[Craig via Mercedes]

On Mon, 30 Dec 2019 16:34:46 -0500 dan--- via Mercedes
 wrote:

> Time to make a Lowe’s trip in the morning with a 10% off coupon and buy
> another hybrid water heater like the one I put in at the old house.
> Yeah, they’re $1200 new, but cost about $100/year to operate. A
> comparable standard resistance element water heater costs around
> $400/year, so the hybrid payback is pretty quick.
> 
> After all, it’s only money...

So have you decided to remove the tank you just drained, or will it
continue to be used for storage?


Craig

> >>On Monday, December 30, 2019, 1:00:29 PM EST, Dan Penoff via
> >> Mercedes < mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >> 
> >> Kroil 1, water heater 0.
> >> 
> >> Old valve removed, new setup with brass fittings and ball valve in
> >> place. Now draining into my front yard for some free landscape
> >> watering. Long time for 80 gallons of water to drain via gravity
> >> through a 3/4” garden hose. Then the pulsing comes in to hopefully
> >> clear some of the scale out.



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Re: [MBZ] OT - Fun with Water Heaters

[dan--- via Mercedes]

Time to make a Lowe’s trip in the morning with a 10% off coupon and buy another 
hybrid water heater like the one I put in at the old house. Yeah, they’re $1200 
new, but cost about $100/year to operate. A comparable standard resistance 
element water heater costs around $400/year, so the hybrid payback is pretty 
quick.

After all, it’s only money...

-D

> On Dec 30, 2019, at 2:33 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Dan wrote: "This could get ugly."
> 
> You meant "uglier".
> 
> On Mon, Dec 30, 2019 at 1:07 PM Curt Raymond via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
>> The best part about Kroil is its largely inoffensive smell, unlike PB
>> Blaster...
>> Would a gallon of white vinegar allowed to sit for an hour be worth doing?
>> In lantern land vinegar gets used to clean parts quite often. I upgraded to
>> citric acid, I can make it stronger and in the long run its cheaper too.
>> -Curt
>> 
>>On Monday, December 30, 2019, 1:00:29 PM EST, Dan Penoff via Mercedes <
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Kroil 1, water heater 0.
>> 
>> Old valve removed, new setup with brass fittings and ball valve in place.
>> Now draining into my front yard for some free landscape watering. Long time
>> for 80 gallons of water to drain via gravity through a 3/4” garden hose.
>> Then the pulsing comes in to hopefully clear some of the scale out.
>> 
>> -D
>> 
>> 
>>> On Dec 30, 2019, at 12:53 PM, Curt Raymond  wrote:
>>> 
>>> This reminds me, we're going to (finally!) replace the exhaust manifold
>> on the Pisten Bully on Wednesday. Its cracked near the flange to the turbo
>> and has been leaking the whole time I've been around the machine. Ben says
>> the machine is noticeably down on power because of it. Oh and you need to
>> run with the windows open all the time because the cab fills with exhaust.
>> The "crack" is by now nearly 1/16" wide, its huge...
>>> 
>>> I went down yesterday and soaked all the bolts in Kroil. The studs from
>> the manifold to the turbo are a lost cause. The bolts into the engine don't
>> look bad though. Fortunately the manifold comes with new studs.
>>> 
>>> $1700 for the manifold direct from Pisten Bully. You might remember that
>> this is an MB engine but the Pisten Bully tilts the turbo differently, we
>> never could find an MB manifold that we could work with...
>>> 
>>> -Curt
>>> 
>>> On Monday, December 30, 2019, 11:47:40 AM EST, Dan Penoff via Mercedes <
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Since most of the household is back to work today, I figured it would be
>> a good time to do some maintenance on the hot water heater.
>>> 
>>> A bit of a build-up:
>>> 
>>> This (new) house was owned by a widow for probably 8 years after her
>> husband (allegedly) offed himself. That’s a pretty bizarre story for
>> another day. Anyway, as you might suspect, she was prone to get sucked in
>> by contractors as well as not maintain things as one should. One of her
>> early “misses” was installing a solar water heater system. She did this
>> when we still lived across the street, so it was about 10 years ago at
>> least. She pissed everyone in the neighborhood off, as she gave the
>> contractor everyone’s contact information so they could come around and
>> pitch their crap. That did not go over well.
>>> 
>>> When she had the roof replaced a year ago she had the roofer remove the
>> solar panel, yet they left the stub-ups for the water lines. WTF? So I’ve
>> got a new roof with a couple of pipes sticking out of it about a foot, but
>> again, that’s just another issue for the list that I keep…
>>> 
>>> The water heater is really a glorified storage tank. It’s an 80 gallon
>> American water heater with a closed loop that the solar panel’s water would
>> circulate through. Funny, as when we moved in I heard this whirring sound
>> in the garage. The circulating pump was still connected to the loop piping
>> and running, despite everything being disconnected. Duh! Oh yeah - because
>> it’s a solar storage tank, it’s only got one 4500W heating element in it,
>> too. Great. 80 gallons of water and a 4500W heating element...
>>> 
>>> I was sure the water heater had never been flushed, so I did my morning
>> run to Home Despot/Lowe’s and got some brass parts to replace the usual
>> crappy drain valves on most water heaters. 3/4” brass nipple, brass ball
>> valve, hose adapter and a cap.
>>> 
>>> I get home, turn power off to the heater, get the garden hose run out of
>> the garage, open a couple of hot water faucets in the house and get ready
>> to open the nylon/plastic drain valve.
>>> 
>>> Nothing. Nada. Not a drip.
>>> 
>>> Get the compressor and a spray gun with a rubber tip. Open the drain
>> valve, hit it with 100 psi air, and BOOM! A huge blowout on my side. Water
>> and probably a 1/2 cup of scale comes flying out of the drain and coats me.
>> Nice, but progress.
>>> 
>>> Nope. There’s so much scale in this thing it just clogs the valve right
>> back up after I 

Re: [MBZ] OT - Fun with Water Heaters

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

Dan wrote: "This could get ugly."

You meant "uglier".

On Mon, Dec 30, 2019 at 1:07 PM Curt Raymond via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

>  The best part about Kroil is its largely inoffensive smell, unlike PB
> Blaster...
> Would a gallon of white vinegar allowed to sit for an hour be worth doing?
> In lantern land vinegar gets used to clean parts quite often. I upgraded to
> citric acid, I can make it stronger and in the long run its cheaper too.
> -Curt
>
> On Monday, December 30, 2019, 1:00:29 PM EST, Dan Penoff via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
>  Kroil 1, water heater 0.
>
> Old valve removed, new setup with brass fittings and ball valve in place.
> Now draining into my front yard for some free landscape watering. Long time
> for 80 gallons of water to drain via gravity through a 3/4” garden hose.
> Then the pulsing comes in to hopefully clear some of the scale out.
>
> -D
>
>
> > On Dec 30, 2019, at 12:53 PM, Curt Raymond  wrote:
> >
> > This reminds me, we're going to (finally!) replace the exhaust manifold
> on the Pisten Bully on Wednesday. Its cracked near the flange to the turbo
> and has been leaking the whole time I've been around the machine. Ben says
> the machine is noticeably down on power because of it. Oh and you need to
> run with the windows open all the time because the cab fills with exhaust.
> The "crack" is by now nearly 1/16" wide, its huge...
> >
> > I went down yesterday and soaked all the bolts in Kroil. The studs from
> the manifold to the turbo are a lost cause. The bolts into the engine don't
> look bad though. Fortunately the manifold comes with new studs.
> >
> > $1700 for the manifold direct from Pisten Bully. You might remember that
> this is an MB engine but the Pisten Bully tilts the turbo differently, we
> never could find an MB manifold that we could work with...
> >
> > -Curt
> >
> > On Monday, December 30, 2019, 11:47:40 AM EST, Dan Penoff via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Since most of the household is back to work today, I figured it would be
> a good time to do some maintenance on the hot water heater.
> >
> > A bit of a build-up:
> >
> > This (new) house was owned by a widow for probably 8 years after her
> husband (allegedly) offed himself. That’s a pretty bizarre story for
> another day. Anyway, as you might suspect, she was prone to get sucked in
> by contractors as well as not maintain things as one should. One of her
> early “misses” was installing a solar water heater system. She did this
> when we still lived across the street, so it was about 10 years ago at
> least. She pissed everyone in the neighborhood off, as she gave the
> contractor everyone’s contact information so they could come around and
> pitch their crap. That did not go over well.
> >
> > When she had the roof replaced a year ago she had the roofer remove the
> solar panel, yet they left the stub-ups for the water lines. WTF? So I’ve
> got a new roof with a couple of pipes sticking out of it about a foot, but
> again, that’s just another issue for the list that I keep…
> >
> > The water heater is really a glorified storage tank. It’s an 80 gallon
> American water heater with a closed loop that the solar panel’s water would
> circulate through. Funny, as when we moved in I heard this whirring sound
> in the garage. The circulating pump was still connected to the loop piping
> and running, despite everything being disconnected. Duh! Oh yeah - because
> it’s a solar storage tank, it’s only got one 4500W heating element in it,
> too. Great. 80 gallons of water and a 4500W heating element...
> >
> > I was sure the water heater had never been flushed, so I did my morning
> run to Home Despot/Lowe’s and got some brass parts to replace the usual
> crappy drain valves on most water heaters. 3/4” brass nipple, brass ball
> valve, hose adapter and a cap.
> >
> > I get home, turn power off to the heater, get the garden hose run out of
> the garage, open a couple of hot water faucets in the house and get ready
> to open the nylon/plastic drain valve.
> >
> > Nothing. Nada. Not a drip.
> >
> > Get the compressor and a spray gun with a rubber tip. Open the drain
> valve, hit it with 100 psi air, and BOOM! A huge blowout on my side. Water
> and probably a 1/2 cup of scale comes flying out of the drain and coats me.
> Nice, but progress.
> >
> > Nope. There’s so much scale in this thing it just clogs the valve right
> back up after I blow it clear.
> >
> > OK, so we’re going to play nasty, eh?
> >
> > Got out my spray can of Kroil and hosed down the joint between a nipple
> coming out of the tank and the nylon/plastic drain valve. I’m enjoying some
> lunch while the Kroil does it’s thing. I’ll go out shortly and see if I can
> turn the valve loose. Earlier attempts yielded no movement.
> >
> > This could get ugly.
> >
> > -D
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com 
> >
> > To 

Re: [MBZ] OT - Fun with Water Heaters

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

 The best part about Kroil is its largely inoffensive smell, unlike PB 
Blaster...
Would a gallon of white vinegar allowed to sit for an hour be worth doing? In 
lantern land vinegar gets used to clean parts quite often. I upgraded to citric 
acid, I can make it stronger and in the long run its cheaper too.
-Curt

On Monday, December 30, 2019, 1:00:29 PM EST, Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
 wrote:  
 
 Kroil 1, water heater 0.

Old valve removed, new setup with brass fittings and ball valve in place. Now 
draining into my front yard for some free landscape watering. Long time for 80 
gallons of water to drain via gravity through a 3/4” garden hose. Then the 
pulsing comes in to hopefully clear some of the scale out.

-D


> On Dec 30, 2019, at 12:53 PM, Curt Raymond  wrote:
> 
> This reminds me, we're going to (finally!) replace the exhaust manifold on 
> the Pisten Bully on Wednesday. Its cracked near the flange to the turbo and 
> has been leaking the whole time I've been around the machine. Ben says the 
> machine is noticeably down on power because of it. Oh and you need to run 
> with the windows open all the time because the cab fills with exhaust. The 
> "crack" is by now nearly 1/16" wide, its huge...
> 
> I went down yesterday and soaked all the bolts in Kroil. The studs from the 
> manifold to the turbo are a lost cause. The bolts into the engine don't look 
> bad though. Fortunately the manifold comes with new studs.
> 
> $1700 for the manifold direct from Pisten Bully. You might remember that this 
> is an MB engine but the Pisten Bully tilts the turbo differently, we never 
> could find an MB manifold that we could work with...
> 
> -Curt
> 
> On Monday, December 30, 2019, 11:47:40 AM EST, Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> Since most of the household is back to work today, I figured it would be a 
> good time to do some maintenance on the hot water heater.
> 
> A bit of a build-up:
> 
> This (new) house was owned by a widow for probably 8 years after her husband 
> (allegedly) offed himself. That’s a pretty bizarre story for another day. 
> Anyway, as you might suspect, she was prone to get sucked in by contractors 
> as well as not maintain things as one should. One of her early “misses” was 
> installing a solar water heater system. She did this when we still lived 
> across the street, so it was about 10 years ago at least. She pissed everyone 
> in the neighborhood off, as she gave the contractor everyone’s contact 
> information so they could come around and pitch their crap. That did not go 
> over well.
> 
> When she had the roof replaced a year ago she had the roofer remove the solar 
> panel, yet they left the stub-ups for the water lines. WTF? So I’ve got a new 
> roof with a couple of pipes sticking out of it about a foot, but again, 
> that’s just another issue for the list that I keep…
> 
> The water heater is really a glorified storage tank. It’s an 80 gallon 
> American water heater with a closed loop that the solar panel’s water would 
> circulate through. Funny, as when we moved in I heard this whirring sound in 
> the garage. The circulating pump was still connected to the loop piping and 
> running, despite everything being disconnected. Duh! Oh yeah - because it’s a 
> solar storage tank, it’s only got one 4500W heating element in it, too. 
> Great. 80 gallons of water and a 4500W heating element...
> 
> I was sure the water heater had never been flushed, so I did my morning run 
> to Home Despot/Lowe’s and got some brass parts to replace the usual crappy 
> drain valves on most water heaters. 3/4” brass nipple, brass ball valve, hose 
> adapter and a cap.
> 
> I get home, turn power off to the heater, get the garden hose run out of the 
> garage, open a couple of hot water faucets in the house and get ready to open 
> the nylon/plastic drain valve.
> 
> Nothing. Nada. Not a drip.
> 
> Get the compressor and a spray gun with a rubber tip. Open the drain valve, 
> hit it with 100 psi air, and BOOM! A huge blowout on my side. Water and 
> probably a 1/2 cup of scale comes flying out of the drain and coats me. Nice, 
> but progress.
> 
> Nope. There’s so much scale in this thing it just clogs the valve right back 
> up after I blow it clear.
> 
> OK, so we’re going to play nasty, eh?
> 
> Got out my spray can of Kroil and hosed down the joint between a nipple 
> coming out of the tank and the nylon/plastic drain valve. I’m enjoying some 
> lunch while the Kroil does it’s thing. I’ll go out shortly and see if I can 
> turn the valve loose. Earlier attempts yielded no movement.
> 
> This could get ugly.
> 
> -D
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com 
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ 
> 
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com 
> 

Re: [MBZ] OT - Fun with Water Heaters

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

Kroil 1, water heater 0.

Old valve removed, new setup with brass fittings and ball valve in place. Now 
draining into my front yard for some free landscape watering. Long time for 80 
gallons of water to drain via gravity through a 3/4” garden hose. Then the 
pulsing comes in to hopefully clear some of the scale out.

-D


> On Dec 30, 2019, at 12:53 PM, Curt Raymond  wrote:
> 
> This reminds me, we're going to (finally!) replace the exhaust manifold on 
> the Pisten Bully on Wednesday. Its cracked near the flange to the turbo and 
> has been leaking the whole time I've been around the machine. Ben says the 
> machine is noticeably down on power because of it. Oh and you need to run 
> with the windows open all the time because the cab fills with exhaust. The 
> "crack" is by now nearly 1/16" wide, its huge...
> 
> I went down yesterday and soaked all the bolts in Kroil. The studs from the 
> manifold to the turbo are a lost cause. The bolts into the engine don't look 
> bad though. Fortunately the manifold comes with new studs.
> 
> $1700 for the manifold direct from Pisten Bully. You might remember that this 
> is an MB engine but the Pisten Bully tilts the turbo differently, we never 
> could find an MB manifold that we could work with...
> 
> -Curt
> 
> On Monday, December 30, 2019, 11:47:40 AM EST, Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> Since most of the household is back to work today, I figured it would be a 
> good time to do some maintenance on the hot water heater.
> 
> A bit of a build-up:
> 
> This (new) house was owned by a widow for probably 8 years after her husband 
> (allegedly) offed himself. That’s a pretty bizarre story for another day. 
> Anyway, as you might suspect, she was prone to get sucked in by contractors 
> as well as not maintain things as one should. One of her early “misses” was 
> installing a solar water heater system. She did this when we still lived 
> across the street, so it was about 10 years ago at least. She pissed everyone 
> in the neighborhood off, as she gave the contractor everyone’s contact 
> information so they could come around and pitch their crap. That did not go 
> over well.
> 
> When she had the roof replaced a year ago she had the roofer remove the solar 
> panel, yet they left the stub-ups for the water lines. WTF? So I’ve got a new 
> roof with a couple of pipes sticking out of it about a foot, but again, 
> that’s just another issue for the list that I keep…
> 
> The water heater is really a glorified storage tank. It’s an 80 gallon 
> American water heater with a closed loop that the solar panel’s water would 
> circulate through. Funny, as when we moved in I heard this whirring sound in 
> the garage. The circulating pump was still connected to the loop piping and 
> running, despite everything being disconnected. Duh! Oh yeah - because it’s a 
> solar storage tank, it’s only got one 4500W heating element in it, too. 
> Great. 80 gallons of water and a 4500W heating element...
> 
> I was sure the water heater had never been flushed, so I did my morning run 
> to Home Despot/Lowe’s and got some brass parts to replace the usual crappy 
> drain valves on most water heaters. 3/4” brass nipple, brass ball valve, hose 
> adapter and a cap.
> 
> I get home, turn power off to the heater, get the garden hose run out of the 
> garage, open a couple of hot water faucets in the house and get ready to open 
> the nylon/plastic drain valve.
> 
> Nothing. Nada. Not a drip.
> 
> Get the compressor and a spray gun with a rubber tip. Open the drain valve, 
> hit it with 100 psi air, and BOOM! A huge blowout on my side. Water and 
> probably a 1/2 cup of scale comes flying out of the drain and coats me. Nice, 
> but progress.
> 
> Nope. There’s so much scale in this thing it just clogs the valve right back 
> up after I blow it clear.
> 
> OK, so we’re going to play nasty, eh?
> 
> Got out my spray can of Kroil and hosed down the joint between a nipple 
> coming out of the tank and the nylon/plastic drain valve. I’m enjoying some 
> lunch while the Kroil does it’s thing. I’ll go out shortly and see if I can 
> turn the valve loose. Earlier attempts yielded no movement.
> 
> This could get ugly.
> 
> -D
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com 
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ 
> 
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com 
> 
> 

___
http://www.okiebenz.com

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To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

Re: [MBZ] OT - Fun with Water Heaters

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

 This reminds me, we're going to (finally!) replace the exhaust manifold on the 
Pisten Bully on Wednesday. Its cracked near the flange to the turbo and has 
been leaking the whole time I've been around the machine. Ben says the machine 
is noticeably down on power because of it. Oh and you need to run with the 
windows open all the time because the cab fills with exhaust. The "crack" is by 
now nearly 1/16" wide, its huge...
I went down yesterday and soaked all the bolts in Kroil. The studs from the 
manifold to the turbo are a lost cause. The bolts into the engine don't look 
bad though. Fortunately the manifold comes with new studs.
$1700 for the manifold direct from Pisten Bully. You might remember that this 
is an MB engine but the Pisten Bully tilts the turbo differently, we never 
could find an MB manifold that we could work with...
-Curt

On Monday, December 30, 2019, 11:47:40 AM EST, Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
 wrote:  
 
 Since most of the household is back to work today, I figured it would be a 
good time to do some maintenance on the hot water heater.

A bit of a build-up:

This (new) house was owned by a widow for probably 8 years after her husband 
(allegedly) offed himself. That’s a pretty bizarre story for another day. 
Anyway, as you might suspect, she was prone to get sucked in by contractors as 
well as not maintain things as one should. One of her early “misses” was 
installing a solar water heater system. She did this when we still lived across 
the street, so it was about 10 years ago at least. She pissed everyone in the 
neighborhood off, as she gave the contractor everyone’s contact information so 
they could come around and pitch their crap. That did not go over well.

When she had the roof replaced a year ago she had the roofer remove the solar 
panel, yet they left the stub-ups for the water lines. WTF? So I’ve got a new 
roof with a couple of pipes sticking out of it about a foot, but again, that’s 
just another issue for the list that I keep…

The water heater is really a glorified storage tank. It’s an 80 gallon American 
water heater with a closed loop that the solar panel’s water would circulate 
through. Funny, as when we moved in I heard this whirring sound in the garage. 
The circulating pump was still connected to the loop piping and running, 
despite everything being disconnected. Duh! Oh yeah - because it’s a solar 
storage tank, it’s only got one 4500W heating element in it, too. Great. 80 
gallons of water and a 4500W heating element...

I was sure the water heater had never been flushed, so I did my morning run to 
Home Despot/Lowe’s and got some brass parts to replace the usual crappy drain 
valves on most water heaters. 3/4” brass nipple, brass ball valve, hose adapter 
and a cap.

I get home, turn power off to the heater, get the garden hose run out of the 
garage, open a couple of hot water faucets in the house and get ready to open 
the nylon/plastic drain valve.

Nothing. Nada. Not a drip.

Get the compressor and a spray gun with a rubber tip. Open the drain valve, hit 
it with 100 psi air, and BOOM! A huge blowout on my side. Water and probably a 
1/2 cup of scale comes flying out of the drain and coats me. Nice, but progress.

Nope. There’s so much scale in this thing it just clogs the valve right back up 
after I blow it clear.

OK, so we’re going to play nasty, eh?

Got out my spray can of Kroil and hosed down the joint between a nipple coming 
out of the tank and the nylon/plastic drain valve. I’m enjoying some lunch 
while the Kroil does it’s thing. I’ll go out shortly and see if I can turn the 
valve loose. Earlier attempts yielded no movement.

This could get ugly.

-D



___
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To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

  
___
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Re: [MBZ] OT - Fun with Water Heaters

[Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes]

That reminds of something. So my father is living in mi grandparents house. 
This is about a 100 year old house and they bought it in 71 or 72. My 
grandfather died in 91 and grandmother died in 03. Not too long before she died 
she hired a plumbing company to completely replace all of the gas lines under 
the house and paid probably $3k or so. A couple of weeks ago I was over there 
and immediately smelled natural gas. Of course my father did not. Nevertheless 
he had a plumber come check it out. Plumber says he has never seen gas lines so 
rusty and they are definitely original to the house. No way they were replaced 
in the early 00’s. They are supposed to replace them all this week. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 30, 2019, at 10:47 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> Since most of the household is back to work today, I figured it would be a 
> good time to do some maintenance on the hot water heater.
> 
> A bit of a build-up:
> 
> This (new) house was owned by a widow for probably 8 years after her husband 
> (allegedly) offed himself. That’s a pretty bizarre story for another day. 
> Anyway, as you might suspect, she was prone to get sucked in by contractors 
> as well as not maintain things as one should. One of her early “misses” was 
> installing a solar water heater system. She did this when we still lived 
> across the street, so it was about 10 years ago at least. She pissed everyone 
> in the neighborhood off, as she gave the contractor everyone’s contact 
> information so they could come around and pitch their crap. That did not go 
> over well.
> 
> When she had the roof replaced a year ago she had the roofer remove the solar 
> panel, yet they left the stub-ups for the water lines. WTF? So I’ve got a new 
> roof with a couple of pipes sticking out of it about a foot, but again, 
> that’s just another issue for the list that I keep…
> 
> The water heater is really a glorified storage tank. It’s an 80 gallon 
> American water heater with a closed loop that the solar panel’s water would 
> circulate through. Funny, as when we moved in I heard this whirring sound in 
> the garage. The circulating pump was still connected to the loop piping and 
> running, despite everything being disconnected. Duh! Oh yeah - because it’s a 
> solar storage tank, it’s only got one 4500W heating element in it, too. 
> Great. 80 gallons of water and a 4500W heating element...
> 
> I was sure the water heater had never been flushed, so I did my morning run 
> to Home Despot/Lowe’s and got some brass parts to replace the usual crappy 
> drain valves on most water heaters. 3/4” brass nipple, brass ball valve, hose 
> adapter and a cap.
> 
> I get home, turn power off to the heater, get the garden hose run out of the 
> garage, open a couple of hot water faucets in the house and get ready to open 
> the nylon/plastic drain valve.
> 
> Nothing. Nada. Not a drip.
> 
> Get the compressor and a spray gun with a rubber tip. Open the drain valve, 
> hit it with 100 psi air, and BOOM! A huge blowout on my side. Water and 
> probably a 1/2 cup of scale comes flying out of the drain and coats me. Nice, 
> but progress.
> 
> Nope. There’s so much scale in this thing it just clogs the valve right back 
> up after I blow it clear.
> 
> OK, so we’re going to play nasty, eh?
> 
> Got out my spray can of Kroil and hosed down the joint between a nipple 
> coming out of the tank and the nylon/plastic drain valve. I’m enjoying some 
> lunch while the Kroil does it’s thing. I’ll go out shortly and see if I can 
> turn the valve loose. Earlier attempts yielded no movement.
> 
> This could get ugly.
> 
> -D
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 


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http://www.okiebenz.com

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To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

[MBZ] OT - Fun with Water Heaters

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

Since most of the household is back to work today, I figured it would be a good 
time to do some maintenance on the hot water heater.

A bit of a build-up:

This (new) house was owned by a widow for probably 8 years after her husband 
(allegedly) offed himself. That’s a pretty bizarre story for another day. 
Anyway, as you might suspect, she was prone to get sucked in by contractors as 
well as not maintain things as one should. One of her early “misses” was 
installing a solar water heater system. She did this when we still lived across 
the street, so it was about 10 years ago at least. She pissed everyone in the 
neighborhood off, as she gave the contractor everyone’s contact information so 
they could come around and pitch their crap. That did not go over well.

When she had the roof replaced a year ago she had the roofer remove the solar 
panel, yet they left the stub-ups for the water lines. WTF? So I’ve got a new 
roof with a couple of pipes sticking out of it about a foot, but again, that’s 
just another issue for the list that I keep…

The water heater is really a glorified storage tank. It’s an 80 gallon American 
water heater with a closed loop that the solar panel’s water would circulate 
through. Funny, as when we moved in I heard this whirring sound in the garage. 
The circulating pump was still connected to the loop piping and running, 
despite everything being disconnected. Duh! Oh yeah - because it’s a solar 
storage tank, it’s only got one 4500W heating element in it, too. Great. 80 
gallons of water and a 4500W heating element...

I was sure the water heater had never been flushed, so I did my morning run to 
Home Despot/Lowe’s and got some brass parts to replace the usual crappy drain 
valves on most water heaters. 3/4” brass nipple, brass ball valve, hose adapter 
and a cap.

I get home, turn power off to the heater, get the garden hose run out of the 
garage, open a couple of hot water faucets in the house and get ready to open 
the nylon/plastic drain valve.

Nothing. Nada. Not a drip.

Get the compressor and a spray gun with a rubber tip. Open the drain valve, hit 
it with 100 psi air, and BOOM! A huge blowout on my side. Water and probably a 
1/2 cup of scale comes flying out of the drain and coats me. Nice, but progress.

Nope. There’s so much scale in this thing it just clogs the valve right back up 
after I blow it clear.

OK, so we’re going to play nasty, eh?

Got out my spray can of Kroil and hosed down the joint between a nipple coming 
out of the tank and the nylon/plastic drain valve. I’m enjoying some lunch 
while the Kroil does it’s thing. I’ll go out shortly and see if I can turn the 
valve loose. Earlier attempts yielded no movement.

This could get ugly.

-D



___
http://www.okiebenz.com

To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com