Re: [MBZ] OT - PCs and Macs (was) Accents
On 2/20/07, Lee Einer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So, all the time I was using PCs I was hearing about Macs and thinking damn, they must be good if they cost so freakin' much but I bet I could build something as good for less. I was wrong. I could build something a helluva lot better for far less. Lee That's like saying you can build a better Mercedes for less, sure you can scrounge parts bins, and get the chassis together and rebuild the engine but some of us want to get in the old girl and drive her. -- Knowledge is power... Power Corrupts. Study hard... Be Evil.
Re: [MBZ] OT - PCs and Macs (was) Accents
On Feb 20, 2007, at 12:10 PM, Lee Einer wrote: snip I could build something a helluva lot better for far less. Lee Lee, Then do it! I think you have a good test market sitting out here on the list... Good luck, Chuck Phoenix AZ From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Wed Feb 21 01:08:50 2007 Received: from wx-out-0506.google.com ([66.249.82.230]) by server8.arterytc8.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from [EMAIL PROTECTED]) id 1HJfyT-00031k-J8 for mercedes@okiebenz.com; Wed, 21 Feb 2007 01:08:50 + Received: by wx-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id s16so2284436wxc for mercedes@okiebenz.com; Tue, 20 Feb 2007 17:08:07 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.70.87.11 with SMTP id k11mr14695226wxb.1172020087868; Tue, 20 Feb 2007 17:08:07 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.70.57.13 with HTTP; Tue, 20 Feb 2007 17:08:07 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2007 20:08:07 -0500 From: Gary Hurst [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com In-Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] MIME-Version: 1.0 References: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] X-Antivirus-Scanner: Clean mail though you should still use an Antivirus Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.9.cp2 Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT - PCs and Macs (was) Accents X-BeenThere: mercedes@okiebenz.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9.cp2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com List-Id: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes_okiebenz.com.okiebenz.com List-Unsubscribe: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com, mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] List-Archive: http://okiebenz.com/pipermail/mercedes_okiebenz.com List-Post: mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com List-Help: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] List-Subscribe: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com, mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 01:08:50 - the only area in which windoze is better than os x is in handling portable media. that's it. as for your troubles with your microsoft word processing program, well, um, yeah On 2/20/07, Lee Einer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am now working (temporarily) as Features Editor of a local paper. They use mostly Mac G4s. IMO, the G4s suck like a rift in spacetime. I use a Sony Mavica for photography which burns to a mini-cd. Works fantastic whether you use Windoze or Linux. Apparently won't work on a Mac because OSX can't read the CD. Most folks there keep a cd in their drive bay so they have an icon which they can click and (hopefully) eject their CDs, because once the CD is out and the icon leaves the desktop it may or may not open the drive bay and may or may not read the next CD. Word on the Mac has the quaint habit of deleting files on the server rather than saving when you attempt to save changes to an existing document. There is no fix for this shite. I could go on. So, all the time I was using PCs I was hearing about Macs and thinking damn, they must be good if they cost so freakin' much but I bet I could build something as good for less. I was wrong. I could build something a helluva lot better for far less. Lee John W. Reames III wrote: On Mon, 19 Feb 2007, Werner Fehlauer wrote: Jim - after more than 30 years of using PCs (starting with an 8080 in kit form), I suppose I'm too old to switch to one of those Apple/Mac/whatever boxes. Even worked up a box with a 6502 processor (as used in the early Apples) but on an S-100 bus, with a 300 baud modem using tape on the Kansas City standard. In those days memory was around $100 a K! Ditched that and went to a Z80 and dual 8 floppy drives. Finally sprung for a complete PC when the company offered them on an employee plan. Have probably gone through almost a dozen bigger and better ones over the years. Always heard that they were the greatest for publication and artwork, but also was turned off by the higher pricing and lack of being able to kloodge up a system using various and sundry after market accessories. Werner You can pick up used ones for cheap. I got a G4/dual 533 with half a gig ram for $100. Got an original Apple studio LCD (17) for $180 (ebay), a dvd-dl burner for $30 (other world computing), a 120GB HDD for $40 (computergeeks.com), and replaced the apple 1 button with my wife's 3 button original MS notebook optical mouse. Its pretty decent speed wise, and just works with everything I throw at it. The BIGGEST PIT(F)A is Quicken-- PC and MAC are different design teams, different savefiles. You have to EXPORT the PC version, and you lose all your reapeat/memorized transactions when you import it. Ditto going from MAC- PC. everything else is fine. iPhoto beats the crap out of other photo organizers (hands down). You can even get a ShutterFly plugin for it! (Export - shutterfly) -j
Re: [MBZ] OT - PCs and Macs (was) Accents
The only failure I've had with a Mac in the last ten years was a couple of hard drives and one ATX style power supply. Not what I can say for most if not all PC's I've used -- several dead boards, etc. Macs are top of the line, more like HP than Dell. Peter
Re: [MBZ] OT - PCs and Macs (was) Accents
External media communication with the Mac is only a problem because the vendors refuse to write the correct drivers, not because there is anything inferior about the Mac. It's a pain, but then so is the fact that PC manufacturers ALWAYS decide to use a different spec of anything that Apple used a couple years earlier, making stuff for the Mac hard to get. For example, 64 bit memory in the IIfx -- only used by Apple in that machine and some printers, because IBM deliberately chose a slower, less expandable type in DX-2 line My only real complaint with Apple over the years was refusing to support parallel printers -- this cost them most of the buisiness market and third party support for a long time. Peter
Re: [MBZ] OT - PCs and Macs (was) Accents
it's hte os x that converted me instantly. i had seen the older mac os and didn't see how it was any better than my windoze xp, outside of perhaps being reliable. once the os x popped up, it was over. i just need a mac with a pcmcia card or equivalent and i'll never look at a windoze machine again On 2/20/07, Ed Booher [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 2/20/07, Gary Hurst [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: does it do anything a mac doesn't do? On 2/20/07, Ed Booher [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You still have a NeXT machine? Which model? May I visit and be permitted to drool on it? Ed Gary, It *was* what the Mac *is* ... OS X started life as NeXTStep, the OS for the NeXT computers, which in an odd way were superpowered Macs. (Both used the same chipsets in a similar way to how today's Macs use the Intel chipsets similar to a Dell) so if you knew the Motorola 68K in and out on a Mac, it was the same chip in a NeXT. The short short short version (and even this will be a little winded) Steve Jobs was ousted at Apple, the shareholders wanted him out and had brought in Pepsi Guy John Sculley as CEO instead of giving the position to Jobs. Jobs resigned from Apple and after seeing a technical demo of a workstation started NeXT. He wanted to keep Apple from breathing down his neck and promised them they would have first rights to license the tech to use in a Mac, which is one of the reasons the NeXT used the 68K proc, the other is that Jobs already had a history with Motorola and so already had inside people to call to get orders of parts. Jobs then wooed very key Apple people way and hired them at NeXT and they started working on a Mach based UNIX type kernel. UNIX, which was born in 1973 (as modern UNIX, ie rewritten in C the language written for UNIX) as such was a very command line centric system. The X11 system which added a GUI was a kludge, mostly, and admins still primarily used the CLI from the Term window in the GUI if they were running X. NeXT threw all the trappings of X away. Changed from a primarily monolithic kernel where everything the computer needed to talk to hardware was in one file, the main kernel, and broke ground on the first types of virtual computing. Mach was supposed to build threads and spin up drivers as needed. (We won't go into the downfalls of Mach here) Apple sued NeXT stating Jobs had stolen industry secrets (due to building a computer completely around a 68K with some of the same Mac subsystems) and stealing away the personnel. As such, and as part of the settlement, NeXT could *only* be sold as a high end UNIX Workstation and could never enter into the more consumer market that the Mac competed in, and as such was extremely expensive. Even though in many respects they could have sold for a few hundred more than a similar Mac, that would have put them in consumer territory and as such was a no no. The OS changed the way the Computing world worked. It opened eyes and caused certain others to stay awake at night in fright. It had the power of UNIX, a primarily mainframe OS (this was before Linux truly came on the scene, though I think Linus was playing with the first lines of code around this same time) with the ease of use of Windows let's face it, it wasn't very Mac-like Tim Berners Lee, the father of the World Wide Web, wrote the first spec for HTML and the first browser program to interpret it on a NeXTCube. For UNIX geeks the world over, it was a Lamborghini. Sitting at my Sun Sparcstation, working with Solaris, I dreamed of NeXT at night. The claim to fame for NeXT was the first true IDE, which stands for Integrated Developer Environment. There were some IDE's at the time, but they still needed other apps and other plug ins and etc. App Builder was fully featured, and was using Objective C, known today as Cocoa. It portability was legendary. When NeXT stopped shipping hardware and attempting to transition to a software company, OpenStep was released and allowed NeXT applications to be recompiled for Windows machines, as well as Solaris and others. What is now known as Universal Binaries were called Fat Binaries then. They did pretty much the same thing. Allowed the executibles for each architecture to be bundled as a single file and run on any system OpenStep could run on. Then Gil Amelio, Sculley's replacement at Apple, started to truly worry the shareholders. There were 32 different models, no focus, Apple was bleeding money and they didn't know how to wrap the tournaquet. Copland, the OS that was to replace System 7.1 was way over budget and way over release. So they started shopping for an OS that already existed to replace System 7.1 and Copland with. The two top contenders, BeOS and NeXT. Jean-Louis Gassee, CEO of BeOS, thought it was a wrap. Apple had already axed Jobs, NeXT was close to dying and BeOS was admittedly a pretty amazing bit of code. So he didn't even bother to bring his D game, much less A game. Didn't bring a full tech demo, didn't have
Re: [MBZ] OT - PCs and Macs (was) Accents
Peter Frederick wrote: External media communication with the Mac is only a problem because the vendors refuse to write the correct drivers, not because there is anything inferior about the Mac. And yet, the disc which the G4s could not detect works flawlessly on my linux box at home. Curious. Lee Email is protected by DesertGate Spam Filter http://www.desertgate.com
Re: [MBZ] OT - PCs and Macs (was) Accents
On 2/20/07, Gary Hurst [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: it's hte os x that converted me instantly. i had seen the older mac os and didn't see how it was any better than my windoze xp, outside of perhaps being reliable. once the os x popped up, it was over. i just need a mac with a pcmcia card or equivalent and i'll never look at a windoze machine again Gary, Don't know what you have PCMCIA that you need, but you can get a PCI to PCMCIA converter and use the card on a BW G3 or Graphite G4 if you need it. Ed -- Knowledge is power... Power Corrupts. Study hard... Be Evil.
Re: [MBZ] OT - PCs and Macs (was) Accents
my favorite machine is my dual 500 gigabit ethernet machine. even though it is 6 years old and should be garbage, it can do anything i want AND it simply oozes quality out of every pore. it is probably the only machine i have ever opened up and didn't get pissed off at anything there. someday it will truely be obsolete and will need to be replaced. until then, though, it will continue to be my favorite. i feel the same way about my g3 imac and like my mini as well. i have owned many pcs and really never had these sort of feelings for them. mostly they were just cheap junk. On 2/20/07, Peter Frederick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The only failure I've had with a Mac in the last ten years was a couple of hard drives and one ATX style power supply. Not what I can say for most if not all PC's I've used -- several dead boards, etc. Macs are top of the line, more like HP than Dell. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT - PCs and Macs (was) Accents
On 2/20/07, Lee Einer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Peter Frederick wrote: External media communication with the Mac is only a problem because the vendors refuse to write the correct drivers, not because there is anything inferior about the Mac. And yet, the disc which the G4s could not detect works flawlessly on my linux box at home. Curious. Lee Lee, What format is the disc in? ISO-9660, ISO-9660+Joliet, Rock Ridge, UDF? Which version of Mac OS was the G4 running? Which CD-ROMs were in the G4's? Some of the early ones simply can not focus the laser to read a CD-R/CD-RW format. Ed -- Knowledge is power... Power Corrupts. Study hard... Be Evil.
Re: [MBZ] OT - PCs and Macs (was) Accents
i have no idea. i don't know anything about computers. i do know that sometimes i don't see that disk thing on my desktop when i think i ought to. On 2/20/07, Lee Einer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Peter Frederick wrote: External media communication with the Mac is only a problem because the vendors refuse to write the correct drivers, not because there is anything inferior about the Mac. And yet, the disc which the G4s could not detect works flawlessly on my linux box at home. Curious. Lee Email is protected by DesertGate Spam Filter http://www.desertgate.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT - PCs and Macs (was) Accents
Peter Frederick wrote: External media communication with the Mac is only a problem because the vendors refuse to write the correct drivers, not because there is anything inferior about the Mac. It's a pain, but then so is the fact that PC manufacturers ALWAYS decide to use a different spec of anything that Apple used a couple years earlier, making stuff for the Mac hard to get. For example, 64 bit memory in the IIfx -- only used by Apple in that machine and some printers, because IBM deliberately chose a slower, less expandable type in DX-2 line My only real complaint with Apple over the years was refusing to support parallel printers -- this cost them most of the buisiness market and third party support for a long time. Apple needs to step up and take responsibility for some of its problems IMO. I have on a couple of recent occasions had to help Mac laptop users connect to a non-apple wireless port. But it works good with an Airport hub they blubbered. Probably so, but Apple went with their own half-assed encryption method that doesn't jibe with anything the rest of the world does, so these sad sacks find themselves double fckd, can't connect to encrypted wireless out there in the non-Mac world and when they find out, they can't even RTFM since they don't have internet access. Since Apple went with their own protocol, there are three separate rules for encrypted wireless in the Apple world- one if you have a mac and are connecting to an Airport hub, a second if you have a non-apple wireless hub and an apple laptop, and a third if you have a non-Apple laptop and are trying to connect to an Airport hub (good luck on that one, unless you have a buddy with administrative level access to the hub.) Totally pointless, worthless and weak. What you get when you go down the proprietary road. Lee Email is protected by DesertGate Spam Filter http://www.desertgate.com
Re: [MBZ] OT - PCs and Macs (was) Accents
just a laptop with the mobile broadband. On 2/20/07, Ed Booher [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 2/20/07, Gary Hurst [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: it's hte os x that converted me instantly. i had seen the older mac os and didn't see how it was any better than my windoze xp, outside of perhaps being reliable. once the os x popped up, it was over. i just need a mac with a pcmcia card or equivalent and i'll never look at a windoze machine again Gary, Don't know what you have PCMCIA that you need, but you can get a PCI to PCMCIA converter and use the card on a BW G3 or Graphite G4 if you need it. Ed -- Knowledge is power... Power Corrupts. Study hard... Be Evil. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT - PCs and Macs (was) Accents
On 2/20/07, Gary Hurst [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: just a laptop with the mobile broadband. Ahh you want a Pismo. Can take up to 1GB of RAM, will run OS X (maybe not Leopard, no one is sure what is going to break with that yet) it has a single PC Card Slot and you can pick one up for about $300 Ed -- Knowledge is power... Power Corrupts. Study hard... Be Evil.
Re: [MBZ] OT - PCs and Macs (was) Accents
On 2/20/07, Ed Booher [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 2/20/07, Gary Hurst [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: just a laptop with the mobile broadband. Ahh you want a Pismo. Can take up to 1GB of RAM, will run OS X (maybe not Leopard, no one is sure what is going to break with that yet) it has a single PC Card Slot and you can pick one up for about $300 Ed Thanks, Gary. Now *I* want a Pismo too -- Knowledge is power... Power Corrupts. Study hard... Be Evil.
Re: [MBZ] OT - PCs and Macs (was) Accents
why don't the rest have such a slot? On 2/20/07, Ed Booher [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 2/20/07, Ed Booher [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 2/20/07, Gary Hurst [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: just a laptop with the mobile broadband. Ahh you want a Pismo. Can take up to 1GB of RAM, will run OS X (maybe not Leopard, no one is sure what is going to break with that yet) it has a single PC Card Slot and you can pick one up for about $300 Ed Thanks, Gary. Now *I* want a Pismo too -- Knowledge is power... Power Corrupts. Study hard... Be Evil. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT - PCs and Macs (was) Accents
On 2/20/07, Gary Hurst [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: why don't the rest have such a slot? Gary, Actually all of the G3 Powerbooks, before the change over to iBooks and TiBooks and etc had PCMCIA slots. The Kanga and Wallstreet had 2 The Lombard and Pismo had 1 The Kanga will *not* run OS X (officially, I think some have strong armed it, but not best solution) The Wallstreet (considered the best of the G3's by most), Lombard and Pismo will run current OS X (again, very many rumors about 10.5 Leopard breaking a lot of systems compatibility) The Wallstreet maxs at 512 MB RAM, technically the Pismo also maxs at 512, but some have gotten them to accept 1 GB with the correct DIMMs. You can find Wallstreets starting at $220, Pismos at $300 (again, Wallstreets considered awesome portable, hence only $80 between the two) Then the iBook came along and changed a lot. Jobs ideas were that USB and Firewire could be used for most of what peripherals that people needed, so no need for PCMCIA. Interestingly there was a company at one point that had a G4 upgrade for the Pismo. Might still be able to find a G4 chip for one. The original TiBooks also had a single PCMCIA slot, those start at $380 - $400ish and are G4's -- Knowledge is power... Power Corrupts. Study hard... Be Evil.
Re: [MBZ] OT - PCs and Macs (was) Accents
The Wallstreet is a wonderful machine -- mine is going strong, runs 10.2.8 with ease, but requires at least 512 MB RAM to load 10.4 (preferred). I actually usually run 9 on it, as I don't have a OS X version of Photoshop or Quark. Pretty quick for a 300 MHz machine and rock solid reliable with a new hard drive -- the original IBM and Toshiba drives stink, and are probably all dead by now, that's how I got mine so cheap. Only weak point is hinges -- but those aren't bad to repair. DVD movie player with the correct drive and the DVD decoder card. Sadly, the Wallstreet is the last Powerbook to use a non-standard drive connector, so you are pretty much stuck with Apple or specific aftermarket drives. I get around that with a PCMCIA USB/Firewire card and an IDE to USB adapter for a spare DVD drive. Peter
Re: [MBZ] OT - PCs and Macs (was) Accents
You still have a NeXT machine? Which model? May I visit and be permitted to drool on it? A cube. Of course! It has a serious Y2K problem, and the OS upgrade was prohibitively priced for my needs at the time. So, it's just stuck in the 90's. The synthesized string engine in the DSP was truly stunning to me, in its day. does it do anything a mac doesn't do? Now? No, not really. It does PostScript Level 2 really really well, though. molasses fresh from the fridge, but they were a cool machine. The laser printer was a lobotomized LJ2/3 (Canon SX engine). With the straight paper The printer was a 400 dpi variation, would also do 300 dpi. It was 'odd' in that it used a serial video DMA connection to the motherboard, all rendering was done by the main CPU. (No processor in the printer except for an 8-bitter that ran the motors, etc.) Part of the Display Postscript system the NeXT used. Really pretty fast, it was. I use a Sony Mavica for photography which burns to a mini-cd. Works fantastic whether you use Windoze or Linux. Apparently won't work on a Mac because OSX can't read the CD. Most folks there keep a cd in their drive bay so they have an icon which they can click and (hopefully) eject their CDs, because once the CD is out and the icon leaves the desktop it may or may not open the drive bay and may or may not read the next CD. Odd that Mavica disks aren't readable, but that's hardly an indictment of the entire platform. I would also want to try one out in an external firewire/usb drive as well, just to be sure it wasn't something to do with the actual drive that's inside. (Not made by Apple, either.) Word on the Mac has the quaint habit of deleting files on the server rather than saving when you attempt to save changes to an existing document. There is no fix for this shite. I could go on. Again, you're using Word, one of the biggest POS programs out there, to indict a platform? Do _not_ try to use Word in a workgroup situation for large documents, _unless_ you have an active and capable IT department backing you up. You _will_ be sorry. Safest not to use it at all, really. I loathe the POS, it has cost me a _lot_ of time over the years. i just need a mac with a pcmcia card or equivalent and i'll never look at a windoze machine again Pismo! My wife and I got a brace for Christmas. I named hers Pismo, and mine Hismo. Mine is parts-on-the-hoof for hers. They are only 400 or 500 MHz, but that's fairly quick anyway. Some had G4 upgrades. My wife's is running the latest release, 10.4, I'm on 10.3 'cause I don't have quite enough memory to make 10.4 happy. Hers has airport, mine has some weird aftermarket PCMCIA card. Hers works fine, mine has problems going to sleep and waking up, I often have to yank the PCMCIA card to get it to come back up. But I can then just put it back in and be back on the house network, so it's really only an inconvenience. I could put Airport in, but why spend money on a parts box? -- Jim
Re: [MBZ] OT - PCs and Macs (was) Accents
Ed Booher wrote: On 2/20/07, Lee Einer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Peter Frederick wrote: External media communication with the Mac is only a problem because the vendors refuse to write the correct drivers, not because there is anything inferior about the Mac. And yet, the disc which the G4s could not detect works flawlessly on my linux box at home. Curious. Lee Lee, What format is the disc in? ISO-9660, ISO-9660+Joliet, Rock Ridge, UDF? Which version of Mac OS was the G4 running? Which CD-ROMs were in the G4's? Some of the early ones simply can not focus the laser to read a CD-R/CD-RW format. Ed IIRC the format is UDF. Googling my camera (Sony Mavica CD400) and G4 pulled up posts from Mac users who stated that OSX was simply unable to read the format, although OS 9 is reported to read it without a problem. My employer has a variety of Macs and most of the employees I speak to have problems with the CDROM drives. Lee Email is protected by DesertGate Spam Filter http://www.desertgate.com
Re: [MBZ] OT - PCs and Macs (was) Accents
Curt Raymond wrote: Uhh, Word sucks, its a Microsoft product, get OpenOffice watch those problems deflate. I use OO at home. I cannot dictate what software applications my employer chooses. And have you had to do the OO install dance on a Mac? A real PITA, compared with installing on a PC. You have to have the Mac OSX installation discs and install optional software before you can even begin to install OO. Mavica cameras REALLY suck, get something good from a camera company. Bzzt. Mavica's ROCK for small object photography, which is what I bought mine for. I have used it for many years without a problem. The macro function is great, the lens is great, second best for what I do- the Best would be a Nikon Coolpix at twice the price. Don't blame the Macs for the shortcomings of other manufacturers. When Macs don't work, it ain't the fault of another manufacturer. Half the people in my office can't get their friggin' drive bays open without problems. Lee -Curt Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2007 12:10:25 -0700 From: Lee Einer [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT - PCs and Macs (was) Accents To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 I am now working (temporarily) as Features Editor of a local paper. They use mostly Mac G4s. IMO, the G4s suck like a rift in spacetime. I use a Sony Mavica for photography which burns to a mini-cd. Works fantastic whether you use Windoze or Linux. Apparently won't work on a Mac because OSX can't read the CD. Most folks there keep a cd in their drive bay so they have an icon which they can click and (hopefully) eject their CDs, because once the CD is out and the icon leaves the desktop it may or may not open the drive bay and may or may not read the next CD. Word on the Mac has the quaint habit of deleting files on the server rather than saving when you attempt to save changes to an existing document. There is no fix for this shite. I could go on. So, all the time I was using PCs I was hearing about Macs and thinking damn, they must be good if they cost so freakin' much but I bet I could build something as good for less. I was wrong. I could build something a helluva lot better for far less. Lee - Expecting? Get great news right away with email Auto-Check. Try the Yahoo! Mail Beta. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com Email is protected by DesertGate Spam Filter http://www.desertgate.com
Re: [MBZ] OT - PCs and Macs (was) Accents
Gary Hurst [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: it's hte os x that converted me instantly. i had seen the older mac os and didn't see how it was any better than my windoze xp, outside of perhaps being reliable. Mac OS prior to OS X was many things, but reliable was not one of them. At least prior to OS 9. OS 9 was improved, but not nearly as robust as OS X. Mac Classic OS crashed as much if not more than Windows and the crashes were generally in the form of a little bomb icon that appeared and then you were toast -- all unsaved work lost. It beat Windows in usability and features, but not in stability. Allan -- 1983 300D 1966 230
Re: [MBZ] OT - PCs and Macs (was) Accents
should still use an Antivirus Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.9.cp2 Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT - PCs and Macs (was) Accents X-BeenThere: mercedes@okiebenz.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9.cp2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com List-Id: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes_okiebenz.com.okiebenz.com List-Unsubscribe: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com, mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] List-Archive: http://okiebenz.com/pipermail/mercedes_okiebenz.com List-Post: mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com List-Help: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] List-Subscribe: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com, mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 15:58:49 - neooffice will run under os x without doing the X11 thing. not sure how well though as i haven't used it much On 2/21/07, Lee Einer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Curt Raymond wrote: Uhh, Word sucks, its a Microsoft product, get OpenOffice watch those problems deflate. I use OO at home. I cannot dictate what software applications my employer chooses. And have you had to do the OO install dance on a Mac? A real PITA, compared with installing on a PC. You have to have the Mac OSX installation discs and install optional software before you can even begin to install OO. Mavica cameras REALLY suck, get something good from a camera company. Bzzt. Mavica's ROCK for small object photography, which is what I bought mine for. I have used it for many years without a problem. The macro function is great, the lens is great, second best for what I do- the Best would be a Nikon Coolpix at twice the price. Don't blame the Macs for the shortcomings of other manufacturers. When Macs don't work, it ain't the fault of another manufacturer. Half the people in my office can't get their friggin' drive bays open without problems. Lee -Curt Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2007 12:10:25 -0700 From: Lee Einer [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT - PCs and Macs (was) Accents To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 I am now working (temporarily) as Features Editor of a local paper. They use mostly Mac G4s. IMO, the G4s suck like a rift in spacetime. I use a Sony Mavica for photography which burns to a mini-cd. Works fantastic whether you use Windoze or Linux. Apparently won't work on a Mac because OSX can't read the CD. Most folks there keep a cd in their drive bay so they have an icon which they can click and (hopefully) eject their CDs, because once the CD is out and the icon leaves the desktop it may or may not open the drive bay and may or may not read the next CD. Word on the Mac has the quaint habit of deleting files on the server rather than saving when you attempt to save changes to an existing document. There is no fix for this shite. I could go on. So, all the time I was using PCs I was hearing about Macs and thinking damn, they must be good if they cost so freakin' much but I bet I could build something as good for less. I was wrong. I could build something a helluva lot better for far less. Lee - Expecting? Get great news right away with email Auto-Check. Try the Yahoo! Mail Beta. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com Email is protected by DesertGate Spam Filter http://www.desertgate.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT - PCs and Macs (was) Accents
Jim - after more than 30 years of using PCs (starting with an 8080 in kit form), I suppose I'm too old to switch to one of those Apple/Mac/whatever boxes. Even worked up a box with a 6502 processor (as used in the early Apples) but on an S-100 bus, with a 300 baud modem using tape on the Kansas City standard. In those days memory was around $100 a K! Ditched that and went to a Z80 and dual 8 floppy drives. Finally sprung for a complete PC when the company offered them on an employee plan. Have probably gone through almost a dozen bigger and better ones over the years. Always heard that they were the greatest for publication and artwork, but also was turned off by the higher pricing and lack of being able to kloodge up a system using various and sundry after market accessories. Werner - Original Message - From: Jim Cathey [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Monday, February 19, 2007 7:10 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Accents Just type in alt 0-2-4-6 for ö; alt 0-2-5-2 for ü, etc. That will get you past most German words used in these lists! Should have bought a Mac: Umlaut-u (ü) is Alt-u-u, umlaut-anything is alt-u-anything. All the basic euro-accents are that way, associated with their most common (in English) letter. Cedilla is alt-c ç, the 'elan' accent alt-e-e é, circumflex is alt-i- î, Alt-a is å, alt-o is ø, alt-n-n is ñ, etc. (Oh, I forgot to do alt-u-o: ö. Alt-u-i is ï.) These ALL from memory, no stinking charts needed! This keyboard input method has been there since the beginning. (To be fair, so has the alt-numeric input of the PC, though I find the numbers completely unmnemonic.) For the less common ones I also have to use the chart application, but you can go surprisingly far without it. -- Jim
Re: [MBZ] OT - PCs and Macs (was) Accents
Werner, Never say I'm too old Try a Mac, you'll like it. Don't want to pay new price. Go to Craigslist and take your pick... Chuck iMac G4 laptop and eMac On Feb 19, 2007, at 9:52 PM, Werner Fehlauer wrote: Jim - after more than 30 years of using PCs (starting with an 8080 in kit form), I suppose I'm too old to switch to one of those Apple/Mac/ whatever boxes. Even worked up a box with a 6502 processor (as used in the early Apples) but on an S-100 bus, with a 300 baud modem using tape on the Kansas City standard. In those days memory was around $100 a K! Ditched that and went to a Z80 and dual 8 floppy drives. Finally sprung for a complete PC when the company offered them on an employee plan. Have probably gone through almost a dozen bigger and better ones over the years. Always heard that they were the greatest for publication and artwork, but also was turned off by the higher pricing and lack of being able to kloodge up a system using various and sundry after market accessories. Werner - Original Message - From: Jim Cathey [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Monday, February 19, 2007 7:10 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Accents Just type in alt 0-2-4-6 for ö; alt 0-2-5-2 for ü, etc. That will get you past most German words used in these lists! Should have bought a Mac: Umlaut-u (ü) is Alt-u-u, umlaut-anything is alt-u-anything. All the basic euro-accents are that way, associated with their most common (in English) letter. Cedilla is alt-c ç, the 'elan' accent alt-e-e é, circumflex is alt-i- î, Alt-a is å, alt-o is ø, alt-n-n is ñ, etc. (Oh, I forgot to do alt-u-o: ö. Alt-u-i is ï.) These ALL from memory, no stinking charts needed! This keyboard input method has been there since the beginning. (To be fair, so has the alt-numeric input of the PC, though I find the numbers completely unmnemonic.) For the less common ones I also have to use the chart application, but you can go surprisingly far without it. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT - PCs and Macs (was) Accents
Chuck - You're probably correct - too old really means not enough time to go through the trauma of convincing SWMBO to bring in yet another box; get rid of the 4 computers now in use and all the software, books, etc; figure out how to transfer all the data that a good packrat saves - and on and on Besides, its more fun to fool around with cars most of the time! Werner - Original Message - From: Chuck Landenberger [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Monday, February 19, 2007 11:58 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT - PCs and Macs (was) Accents Werner, Never say I'm too old Try a Mac, you'll like it. Don't want to pay new price. Go to Craigslist and take your pick... Chuck iMac G4 laptop and eMac
Re: [MBZ] OT - PCs and Macs (was) Accents
Jim - after more than 30 years of using PCs (starting with an 8080 in kit form), I suppose I'm too old to switch to one of those Apple/Mac/whatever boxes. Even worked up a box with a 6502 processor (as used in the early Apples) but on an S-100 bus, with a 300 baud modem using tape on the Kansas City standard. In those days memory was around $100 a K! I sit here not five feet from my 1802 kit box, and its successor the semi-kit 6502 OSI machine. (Cassette for both, floppies later added to the OSI.) And _its_ successor, the 68000 S-100 system. My first hard disk, and the first to even need a 16-bit address bus. What followed that? Not a PC, I looked at one and walked away in disgust. I waited, and succumbed to an original Mac. A NeXT followed it, a variety of work-origined Unixey machines, and now a variety of PPC Macs all running OSX. I still have them all. By the time I'm done with them they're worth far more to me as mementos than as assets to be sold. It's never too late to change, all you have to do is be willing to make a real upgrade. Not the same old SOS with maybe a few more mega-whatevers to it. Let us hope that Apple can survive long enough to get smug and get their ass kicked by something that is new and truly better. It won't come out of the Wintel hegemony, I'll tell you that. Wherever it would come from, it would be good for us all. Competition is like that. -- Jim
Re: [MBZ] OT - PCs and Macs (was) Accents
Jim - sounds like you acquire obsolete treasures like many of us do. So far I've managed to keep old computer stuff down to perhaps 8 cu. ft., which is a lot better than the ham radio gear, which still takes up well over 200 cu. ft. - and that's after taking several very nice (in their day) Model 28 TTY machines to the scrap yard, and finding a good home for an old Collins In my collection is a TTY 40 chain printer. Along with three Mac Portables, several 'Bump Macs', including an SE/30. (I last used it a couple of jobs ago. I had it on my desk for simple drawing 'cause I only needed what MacDraw would do, yet the only offering from the co. was Visio. Huge package, and non-intuitive I thought. I'd just do it in MD and paste it into Word. From there I could transfer the file and paste it out of one Word doc into another.) I also intermittently use the IIci, which is a nice little machine. I have a copy of DesignWorks for it, that may be what I use to do some more house what-if's. That copy of DW refuses to run under emulation, and the demo copies that are native are quite restricted and can't open the basal house drawing I already made. The Portables are what I run my home finances on. Instant-on, no waiting. (Static RAM, there is no OFF, only Sleep. And access to my finances back to the beginning.) So many such things at my house are not entirely obsolete at all. (But could be made so, were it necessary.) My boy, for example, has his own computers: a Grid 3 and a Mac Minus running KidPix. I have it bad, but of late I've really been trying to control the acquisition phase. Bringing in a 40kW Kohler and the 25kW MD-3 really did soak up some space, however! Anything that can sit outside in the woods is no problem, but not very much that is interesting can really tolerate that. -- Jim
Re: [MBZ] OT - PCs and Macs (was) Accents
On 2/20/07, Jim Cathey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: disgust. I waited, and succumbed to an original Mac. A NeXT followed I still have them all. By the time I'm done with them they're -- Jim You still have a NeXT machine? Which model? May I visit and be permitted to drool on it? Ed -- Knowledge is power... Power Corrupts. Study hard... Be Evil.
Re: [MBZ] OT - PCs and Macs (was) Accents
does it do anything a mac doesn't do? On 2/20/07, Ed Booher [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 2/20/07, Jim Cathey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: disgust. I waited, and succumbed to an original Mac. A NeXT followed I still have them all. By the time I'm done with them they're -- Jim You still have a NeXT machine? Which model? May I visit and be permitted to drool on it? Ed -- Knowledge is power... Power Corrupts. Study hard... Be Evil. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT - PCs and Macs (was) Accents
On Mon, 19 Feb 2007, Werner Fehlauer wrote: Jim - after more than 30 years of using PCs (starting with an 8080 in kit form), I suppose I'm too old to switch to one of those Apple/Mac/whatever boxes. Even worked up a box with a 6502 processor (as used in the early Apples) but on an S-100 bus, with a 300 baud modem using tape on the Kansas City standard. In those days memory was around $100 a K! Ditched that and went to a Z80 and dual 8 floppy drives. Finally sprung for a complete PC when the company offered them on an employee plan. Have probably gone through almost a dozen bigger and better ones over the years. Always heard that they were the greatest for publication and artwork, but also was turned off by the higher pricing and lack of being able to kloodge up a system using various and sundry after market accessories. Werner You can pick up used ones for cheap. I got a G4/dual 533 with half a gig ram for $100. Got an original Apple studio LCD (17) for $180 (ebay), a dvd-dl burner for $30 (other world computing), a 120GB HDD for $40 (computergeeks.com), and replaced the apple 1 button with my wife's 3 button original MS notebook optical mouse. Its pretty decent speed wise, and just works with everything I throw at it. The BIGGEST PIT(F)A is Quicken-- PC and MAC are different design teams, different savefiles. You have to EXPORT the PC version, and you lose all your reapeat/memorized transactions when you import it. Ditto going from MAC- PC. everything else is fine. iPhoto beats the crap out of other photo organizers (hands down). You can even get a ShutterFly plugin for it! (Export - shutterfly) -j.
Re: [MBZ] OT - PCs and Macs (was) Accents
On Mon, 19 Feb 2007, Jim Cathey wrote: I sit here not five feet from my 1802 kit box, and its successor the semi-kit 6502 OSI machine. (Cassette for both, floppies later added to the OSI.) And _its_ successor, the 68000 S-100 system. My first hard disk, and the first to even need a 16-bit address bus. What followed that? Not a PC, I looked at one and walked away in disgust. I waited, and succumbed to an original Mac. A NeXT followed it, a variety of work-origined Unixey machines, and now a variety of PPC Macs all running OSX. I still have them all. By the time I'm done with them they're worth far more to me as mementos than as assets to be sold. I got rid of a lot of my old stuff, but I still have a uVax 2100, DecStation 5000/260 (the R4400 one!), DEC 3000/400, Sparc 20... Using an old proliant 7000 as a server, have a REAL odd bird here thats acting as a floor weight; a ALR designed Unisys box- 6 processor Pentium Pro with 1MB cache CPU's (they are black aluminum, not ceramic). I also have a couple of PPro overdrives kicking around! (think 333MHz P2 Xeon for Socket 8) -j.
Re: [MBZ] OT - PCs and Macs (was) Accents
On Tue, 20 Feb 2007, Gary Hurst wrote: does it do anything a mac doesn't do? The cubes look REALLY cool. Where do you think ADC came from ;) (well the monitor was a bottle so it required an AC cord.) Te optical was like molasses fresh from the fridge, but they were a cool machine. The laser printer was a lobotomized LJ2/3 (Canon SX engine). With the straight paper path you could print on just about anything you could cram through the paper path! -j.
Re: [MBZ] OT - PCs and Macs (was) Accents
I am now working (temporarily) as Features Editor of a local paper. They use mostly Mac G4s. IMO, the G4s suck like a rift in spacetime. I use a Sony Mavica for photography which burns to a mini-cd. Works fantastic whether you use Windoze or Linux. Apparently won't work on a Mac because OSX can't read the CD. Most folks there keep a cd in their drive bay so they have an icon which they can click and (hopefully) eject their CDs, because once the CD is out and the icon leaves the desktop it may or may not open the drive bay and may or may not read the next CD. Word on the Mac has the quaint habit of deleting files on the server rather than saving when you attempt to save changes to an existing document. There is no fix for this shite. I could go on. So, all the time I was using PCs I was hearing about Macs and thinking damn, they must be good if they cost so freakin' much but I bet I could build something as good for less. I was wrong. I could build something a helluva lot better for far less. Lee John W. Reames III wrote: On Mon, 19 Feb 2007, Werner Fehlauer wrote: Jim - after more than 30 years of using PCs (starting with an 8080 in kit form), I suppose I'm too old to switch to one of those Apple/Mac/whatever boxes. Even worked up a box with a 6502 processor (as used in the early Apples) but on an S-100 bus, with a 300 baud modem using tape on the Kansas City standard. In those days memory was around $100 a K! Ditched that and went to a Z80 and dual 8 floppy drives. Finally sprung for a complete PC when the company offered them on an employee plan. Have probably gone through almost a dozen bigger and better ones over the years. Always heard that they were the greatest for publication and artwork, but also was turned off by the higher pricing and lack of being able to kloodge up a system using various and sundry after market accessories. Werner You can pick up used ones for cheap. I got a G4/dual 533 with half a gig ram for $100. Got an original Apple studio LCD (17) for $180 (ebay), a dvd-dl burner for $30 (other world computing), a 120GB HDD for $40 (computergeeks.com), and replaced the apple 1 button with my wife's 3 button original MS notebook optical mouse. Its pretty decent speed wise, and just works with everything I throw at it. The BIGGEST PIT(F)A is Quicken-- PC and MAC are different design teams, different savefiles. You have to EXPORT the PC version, and you lose all your reapeat/memorized transactions when you import it. Ditto going from MAC- PC. everything else is fine. iPhoto beats the crap out of other photo organizers (hands down). You can even get a ShutterFly plugin for it! (Export - shutterfly) -j. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com Email is protected by DesertGate Spam Filter http://www.desertgate.com
