Re: [MBZ] Poll: How much power is too much?

[fmiser via Mercedes]

> Rich wrote:
> 
> I think y'all have some confusion with horsepower and torque
> 
> Basically, power is speed, torque is acceleration.

Err, not really.  I've mentioned this before, I think.  I
tried to keep quite, but I think I just failed.  

I'm not really picking on you, Rich.  That statement is a very
common (mis)understanding.

Horsepower is what get the work done.  Speed, acceleration,
hill climbing, stump pulling, wheel spinning - whatever.  The
transmission trades in speed to gain torque.

Since torque is just a force, there can be torque on a shaft
at zero RPM.  Since there is no movement, the horsepower is
zero - and obviously there won't be much accelerating.

If the shaft begins to turn, then there is horsepower because
now work is getting done.

The job of the transmission is to shift the relationship
between speed and torque.  Less speed = more torque at any
given horsepower.

Using a transmission, I could get 800 lb-ft of torque from aux
cooling fan motor.  It would probably be less than one RPM,
though.

Internal combustion engines (gasoline otto cycle or diesel
cycle) have a very real minimum RPM and develop more torque at
speeds well above the minimum RPM.  This is the primary reason
for a transmission - to get the torque wanted by making the
engine turn at the RPM it needs to create the necessary
horsepower which is then converted by the transmission.

The torque curve of the engine - that is, how the torque
changes at different speeds - can be meaningful data.  But
a number for "maximum torque" is pretty useless.

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Re: [MBZ] Poll: How much power is too much?

[archer75--- via Mercedes]

Karl Wittnebel wrote:
For a daily driver, and occasional wife use, what would be your sensible
upper limit? 400 crank/350 wheels with 400 ftlb torque? Thanks.
> 
> Whatever a 1995 E320 has. The 1994 E420 was a lot of fun, but had more
> than what we really need.
> Craig
~~
Whether we like it or not, Big Oil and/or Big Government, is going to figure 
out some way to raise the pump prices and people are going to start paying 
attention to economy again.
Also whether we like it or not, hybrids are going to be the best compromise 
between adequate power and maximum fuel economy for wives and other daily 
drivers.

For example, my sons Ford Fusion Hybrid can do 0-60 in 8 seconds (same as a 
Mercedes ML450 Hybrid) which is adequate for a freeway on-ramp, and then gets 
38+ mpg at 70 mph on the freeway with it's little 4 cylinder engine; and it 
isn't a light weight car at 3900 lbs. 

Sons (2010?) model just turned 150K miles with no problems, so Ford apparently 
hasn't sacrificed quality for performance/economy.
Other hybrids have variable results:

http://www.aptuned.com/blog/hybrid-cars-which-is-the-fastest-hybrid-0-60-and-quarter-mile.html

Gerry
~~~

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Re: [MBZ] Poll: How much power is too much?

[Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes]

Driving 14 miles per day, often less. Takes a long time to save any real
money driving econoboxes or paying for bmw i3s. Full electric might be a
good solution to my torque-related woes at stoplights, however.

I drove a hybrid touareg that was supposed to be great, but it did not
inspire. Lyft drivers love their piouses until 100 when $5k batteries start
wearing out at 100k. Some go 150 though.

On the torque/hp issue, a motor making gobs of torque at low rpm is
excellent in the city. Not as much shifting. Good pulling away from lights.
So a smaller turbo is better in that way. Until you want to get on the
freeway, at which point you want something that can handle more hp. VNTs
may be a good solution, but control is difficult without arduino BS. The
rest of the motor is pure mechanical, so I am sticking with that.

Superchargers are very good around town also. I am not prepared to add one
to the 606. Yet.

The only other good non-electronically-controlled turbo solution is
compound+/- sequential. That is where I am headed ATM. Mainly because I am
enjoying figuring out the design part, and will enjoy fabricating it.

K





On Jan 5, 2016 12:41 AM, "archer75--- via Mercedes" 
wrote:

> Karl Wittnebel wrote:
> For a daily driver, and occasional wife use, what would be your sensible
> upper limit? 400 crank/350 wheels with 400 ftlb torque? Thanks.
> >
> > Whatever a 1995 E320 has. The 1994 E420 was a lot of fun, but had more
> > than what we really need.
> > Craig
> ~~
> Whether we like it or not, Big Oil and/or Big Government, is going to
> figure out some way to raise the pump prices and people are going to start
> paying attention to economy again.
> Also whether we like it or not, hybrids are going to be the best
> compromise between adequate power and maximum fuel economy for wives and
> other daily drivers.
>
> For example, my sons Ford Fusion Hybrid can do 0-60 in 8 seconds (same as
> a Mercedes ML450 Hybrid) which is adequate for a freeway on-ramp, and then
> gets 38+ mpg at 70 mph on the freeway with it's little 4 cylinder engine;
> and it isn't a light weight car at 3900 lbs.
>
> Sons (2010?) model just turned 150K miles with no problems, so Ford
> apparently hasn't sacrificed quality for performance/economy.
> Other hybrids have variable results:
>
>
> http://www.aptuned.com/blog/hybrid-cars-which-is-the-fastest-hybrid-0-60-and-quarter-mile.html
>
> Gerry
> ~~~
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] Poll: How much power is too much?

[Randy Bennell via Mercedes]

On 04/01/2016 10:59 PM, OK Don via Mercedes wrote:

There is the argument that it is more fun to drive a slow car fast than a
fast car slowly. I did enjoy the 220D, but I also enjoyed the 200+ HP MGA.


True to some extent. I had a 1982 Honda Civic with the 1.3 L engine and 
a 5 speed manual transmission.
I could basically drive it as hard as I could and not get into too much 
trouble. It was also quite willing to let me do so.
If I tried that with my current truck, I think I would be well over the 
speed limit by the time I cleared an intersection.


RB

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Re: [MBZ] Poll: How much power is too much?

[Rich Thomas via Mercedes]

ooh ooh pick on me teacher!

--R

On 1/5/16 3:30 AM, fmiser via Mercedes wrote:

Rich wrote:

I think y'all have some confusion with horsepower and torque

Basically, power is speed, torque is acceleration.

Err, not really.  I've mentioned this before, I think.  I
tried to keep quite, but I think I just failed.

I'm not really picking on you, Rich.  That statement is a very
common (mis)understanding.

Horsepower is what get the work done.  Speed, acceleration,
hill climbing, stump pulling, wheel spinning - whatever.  The
transmission trades in speed to gain torque.

Since torque is just a force, there can be torque on a shaft
at zero RPM.  Since there is no movement, the horsepower is
zero - and obviously there won't be much accelerating.

If the shaft begins to turn, then there is horsepower because
now work is getting done.

The job of the transmission is to shift the relationship
between speed and torque.  Less speed = more torque at any
given horsepower.

Using a transmission, I could get 800 lb-ft of torque from aux
cooling fan motor.  It would probably be less than one RPM,
though.

Internal combustion engines (gasoline otto cycle or diesel
cycle) have a very real minimum RPM and develop more torque at
speeds well above the minimum RPM.  This is the primary reason
for a transmission - to get the torque wanted by making the
engine turn at the RPM it needs to create the necessary
horsepower which is then converted by the transmission.

The torque curve of the engine - that is, how the torque
changes at different speeds - can be meaningful data.  But
a number for "maximum torque" is pretty useless.

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Re: [MBZ] Poll: How much power is too much?

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

Not as good as my '98 Jetta - 50mpg, or '05 Golf at a "mere" 47.
If carb could fix their rectal/cranial inversion (not likely) we could have 
cheap diesels and lower our fuel consumption dramatically.


-Curt
 

  From: Curly McLain via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
 To: Mercedes Discussion List <mercedes@okiebenz.com> 
Cc: Curly McLain <126die...@gmail.com>
 Sent: Tuesday, January 5, 2016 8:07 AM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] Poll: How much power is too much?
   
>
>~~
>Whether we like it or not, Big Oil and/or Big Government, is going 
>to figure out some way to raise the pump prices and people are going 
>to start paying attention to economy again.
>Also whether we like it or not, hybrids are going to be the best 
>compromise between adequate power and maximum fuel economy for wives 
>and other daily drivers.
>
>For example, my sons Ford Fusion Hybrid can do 0-60 in 8 seconds 
>(same as a Mercedes ML450 Hybrid) which is adequate for a freeway 
>on-ramp, and then gets 38+ mpg at 70 mph on the freeway with it's 
>little 4 cylinder engine; and it isn't a light weight car at 3900 
>lbs.
>
>Sons (2010?) model just turned 150K miles with no problems, so Ford 
>apparently hasn't sacrificed quality for performance/economy.
>Other hybrids have variable results:
>
>http://www.aptuned.com/blog/hybrid-cars-which-is-the-fastest-hybrid-0-60-and-quarter-mile.html
>
>Gerry
>~~~

38mpg@ 70 is still not as good as the wabbit, (50) the quantum (45) 
or the escort (50) dissels, and probably several others from the 80s.

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Re: [MBZ] Poll: How much power is too much?

[Curly McLain via Mercedes]

~~
Whether we like it or not, Big Oil and/or Big Government, is going 
to figure out some way to raise the pump prices and people are going 
to start paying attention to economy again.
Also whether we like it or not, hybrids are going to be the best 
compromise between adequate power and maximum fuel economy for wives 
and other daily drivers.


For example, my sons Ford Fusion Hybrid can do 0-60 in 8 seconds 
(same as a Mercedes ML450 Hybrid) which is adequate for a freeway 
on-ramp, and then gets 38+ mpg at 70 mph on the freeway with it's 
little 4 cylinder engine; and it isn't a light weight car at 3900 
lbs.


Sons (2010?) model just turned 150K miles with no problems, so Ford 
apparently hasn't sacrificed quality for performance/economy.

Other hybrids have variable results:

http://www.aptuned.com/blog/hybrid-cars-which-is-the-fastest-hybrid-0-60-and-quarter-mile.html

Gerry
~~~


38mpg@ 70 is still not as good as the wabbit, (50) the quantum (45) 
or the escort (50) dissels, and probably several others from the 80s.


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Re: [MBZ] Poll: How much power is too much?

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

Adequate? 30 years ago 8 seconds was nearly supercar territory. Most drivers 
are almost completely incapable of dealing with that kind of speed on anything 
but flat dry roads. You add in some bad weather and the driver trying to talk 
on the phone, smoke a cigarette, apply makeup, yell at the kids in the back 
seat, eat a hamburger, read the newspaper, watch a DVD and/or have sex and you 
understand why cars are on average much more likely to kill you than guns...
-Curt
 

  From: archer75--- via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
 To: Mercedes Discussion List <mercedes@okiebenz.com> 
Cc: "arche...@embarqmail.com" <arche...@embarqmail.com>
 Sent: Tuesday, January 5, 2016 3:41 AM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] Poll: How much power is too much?
   

For example, my sons Ford Fusion Hybrid can do 0-60 in 8 seconds (same as a 
Mercedes ML450 Hybrid) which is adequate for a freeway on-ramp, and then gets 
38+ mpg at 70 mph on the freeway with it's little 4 cylinder engine; and it 
isn't a light weight car at 3900 lbs. 

Gerry
~~~

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Re: [MBZ] Poll: How much power is too much?

[Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes]

Couple of differences from the Cummins. Top end there is like 2800 rpm and
the turbo is optimized for torque. Pretty sure you are rocking 600-plus
foot pounds of torque on that motor from 1200rpm or so. So the power and
torque is always there, more or less, throughout the rpm range, probably
with a vnt, and power does not increase dramatically with rpm.

The om606 has a 5500 red line (or so). Often the turbo will not boost until
3k (eg host hx40). So you get great economy off boost, but when you cane
it, all hell breaks loose. I plan to engineer around this to some degree,
but still. Maybe I will go hx35 instead, or compound.
>
> Thanks.
>
> On Jan 4, 2016 10:38 AM, "Curt Raymond via Mercedes" <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>>
>> Sensible upper limit? For like real actual people?
>> At the crank 150hp, realistically nobody NEEDS more than 150hp for
regular driving in a passenger vehicle.
>> 350hp at the wheels is huge, my Dodge 1500 has 345 at the crank and its
an animal. Walked away up big hills in the white mountains with a 240D on a
heavy UHaul trailer.
>> -Curt
>>
>>
>>   From: Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
>>  To: "mercedes@okiebenz com" <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
>> Cc: Karl Wittnebel <atypical...@gmail.com>
>>  Sent: Monday, January 4, 2016 1:20 PM
>>  Subject: [MBZ] Poll: How much power is too much?
>>
>> For a daily driver, and occasional wife use, what would be your sensible
>> upper limit? 400 crank/350 wheels with 400 ftlb torque? Thanks.
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>
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Re: [MBZ] Poll: How much power is too much?

[Randy Bennell via Mercedes]

Curt's truck is not diesel. It is a gasser - likely the 5.7 Hemi.

RB

On 04/01/2016 1:25 PM, Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes wrote:

Couple of differences from the Cummins. Top end there is like 2800 rpm and
the turbo is optimized for torque. Pretty sure you are rocking 600-plus
foot pounds of torque on that motor from 1200rpm or so. So the power and
torque is always there, more or less, throughout the rpm range, probably
with a vnt, and power does not increase dramatically with rpm.

The om606 has a 5500 red line (or so). Often the turbo will not boost until
3k (eg host hx40). So you get great economy off boost, but when you cane
it, all hell breaks loose. I plan to engineer around this to some degree,
but still. Maybe I will go hx35 instead, or compound.

Thanks.

On Jan 4, 2016 10:38 AM, "Curt Raymond via Mercedes" <

mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

Sensible upper limit? For like real actual people?
At the crank 150hp, realistically nobody NEEDS more than 150hp for

regular driving in a passenger vehicle.

350hp at the wheels is huge, my Dodge 1500 has 345 at the crank and its

an animal. Walked away up big hills in the white mountains with a 240D on a
heavy UHaul trailer.

-Curt


   From: Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
  To: "mercedes@okiebenz com" <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
Cc: Karl Wittnebel <atypical...@gmail.com>
  Sent: Monday, January 4, 2016 1:20 PM
  Subject: [MBZ] Poll: How much power is too much?

For a daily driver, and occasional wife use, what would be your sensible
upper limit? 400 crank/350 wheels with 400 ftlb torque? Thanks.
___




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Re: [MBZ] Poll: How much power is too much?

[OK Don via Mercedes]

It all depends on the weight of the vehicle, and the temperament/style of
the driver. 100HP is enough for my wife in most anything. 400HP is the
minimum for Regina (as I hear it). Actually, the more aggressive or on/off
the driver, the less power they should have under their right foot.
All that having been said, I fdon';t think there is such a thing as too
much power - just use what you need at the time.

On Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 12:20 PM, Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> For a daily driver, and occasional wife use, what would be your sensible
> upper limit? 400 crank/350 wheels with 400 ftlb torque? Thanks.
> ___
>

-- 
OK Don

*“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of
our people need it sorely on these accounts.”* – Mark Twain

"There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who
learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
for themselves."

WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] Poll: How much power is too much?

[Rick Knoble via Mercedes]

Depends. With all of the available technology in a modern MB (4matic, ABS, 
traction control, skid control, etc.) unlimited HP. 

Realistically, 400 HP, 500 lb.feet would be the upper limit, I would guess‎, 
and that in a heavy vehicle with abs and limited slip (ASR?, ASD?) (don't know 
all the acronyms). That would be a brutally quick car, with the ability to 
smoke the tires at any reasonable speed by simply mashing the go pedal. Fun to 
drive, but probably scary for SWMBO. 

Unless, of course, your SWMBO is Sabine Schmitz. :)

http://blackflag.jalopnik.com/watch-sabine-schmitz-pass-everyone-in-a-race-on-the-nur-1675796603


Rick 
Sent from my BlackBerry Z10
  Original Message  
From: Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes
Sent: Monday, January 4, 2016 12:20 PM
To: mercedes@okiebenz com
Reply To: Mercedes Discussion List
Cc: Karl Wittnebel
Subject: [MBZ] Poll: How much power is too much?

For a daily driver, and occasional wife use, what would be your sensible
upper limit? 400 crank/350 wheels with 400 ftlb torque? Thanks.
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Re: [MBZ] Poll: How much power is too much?

[Craig via Mercedes]

On Mon, 4 Jan 2016 12:26:06 -0700 Craig  wrote:

> On Mon, 4 Jan 2016 10:20:03 -0800 Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes
>  wrote:
> 
> > For a daily driver, and occasional wife use, what would be your
> > sensible upper limit? 400 crank/350 wheels with 400 ftlb torque?
> > Thanks.
> 
> Whatever a 1995 E320 has. The 1994 E420 was a lot of fun, but had more
> than what we really need.

And I should clarify that it's the power-to-weight ratio, not the raw
horsepower. Something heavier will need more; something lighter (like the
1969 Lotus Europa I had when in the USAF) will need less.


Craig


Craig

--
Present: '82 240D/3.0Bluebell   270 kmi (still with failed
 paint on the hood)

Past:'72 220D/8 Herman 186 kmi
 '64 190Dc  Emma
 '72 220/8
 '86 190E/2.3
 '94 E420   Oskar  127 kmi (given to Kaleb)
 '95 E320   Sebastian  117 kmi RIP

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Re: [MBZ] Poll: How much power is too much?

[Craig via Mercedes]

On Mon, 4 Jan 2016 10:20:03 -0800 Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes
 wrote:

> For a daily driver, and occasional wife use, what would be your sensible
> upper limit? 400 crank/350 wheels with 400 ftlb torque? Thanks.

Whatever a 1995 E320 has. The 1994 E420 was a lot of fun, but had more
than what we really need.


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] Poll: How much power is too much?

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

Sensible upper limit? For like real actual people?
At the crank 150hp, realistically nobody NEEDS more than 150hp for regular 
driving in a passenger vehicle.
350hp at the wheels is huge, my Dodge 1500 has 345 at the crank and its an 
animal. Walked away up big hills in the white mountains with a 240D on a heavy 
UHaul trailer.
-Curt
 

  From: Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
 To: "mercedes@okiebenz com" <mercedes@okiebenz.com> 
Cc: Karl Wittnebel <atypical...@gmail.com>
 Sent: Monday, January 4, 2016 1:20 PM
 Subject: [MBZ] Poll: How much power is too much?
   
For a daily driver, and occasional wife use, what would be your sensible
upper limit? 400 crank/350 wheels with 400 ftlb torque? Thanks.
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Re: [MBZ] Poll: How much power is too much?

[Randy Bennell via Mercedes]

On 04/01/2016 3:26 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes wrote:

Randy is right, my truck is a gasser.
I think you'll find that diesel engines get worse fuel economy off boost. My 
'98 Jetta gets on boost around 1200rpm which makes me think something is wrong 
with my '05 Golf that rockets off at 2200. If you're not making boost until 3k 
something is wrong with the turbo or the wastegate.
Remember you asked how much power do you NEED not how much you might want. I'm 
sticking by my answer, especially if the electronic nanny controls are no 
present. Not having traction control my '96 Dakota 5.2l, 205hp was a real 
handful in any slippery spots. My 2010 Dodge 1500 has excellent traction 
control and the 345hp is easy to handle and excellent even in the snow, even in 
2wd.
I'm in favor of the idea of a graduated drivers licensing system where a higher 
level of training (and the requisite testing) allows you to have a more 
powerful vehicle. Most people should probably be limited to sub 100hp levels...
-Curt

  


I am with Curt on this one too. I have a 2013 Ford F150 with the 5.0 
Coyote engine. 360 advertised HP if I recall correctly. I probably don't 
need it and most of the time I don't use it but when I need or want to 
pass on 2 lane highway on the way out to the lake, it does not 
disappoint me. My previous truck was a 2002 F150 with the 5.4 Triton 
engine. I don't recall the advertised HP but it was not nearly as 
powerful as the current one. It was still pretty good at passing speeds 
but a bit slower from starting up from a dead stop. The efficiency of 
the newer engines (and transmissions) means that the fuel economy on the 
newer truck is better than the older truck even though the newer one has 
more power. I am not sure what the fuel economy might be if I used the 
additional power all the time but since I do not, it is not material.


I guess the traction control is a good thing. I can turn it off if I 
don't want it. It should keep one from getting in trouble in some cases 
but it also means that one cannot goose the throttle and kick the back 
end around like we used to do on older vehicles. If I do that, it 
hesitates and that is a bit of an odd feeling when one is trying to make 
a quick left with traffic coming. One tries to do it quickly and get out 
of the way and the truck thinks it is spinning and tries to prevent it. 
Wierd if one is used to doing it the old way. I used to go out with my 
old 1968 Chevy 2WD pickup and play in the fresh snow. It was fun to 
slide the rear around.


RB

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Re: [MBZ] Poll: How much power is too much?

[Rich Thomas via Mercedes]

I think y'all have some confusion with horsepower and torque

Basically, power is speed, torque is acceleration.

--R

On 1/4/16 5:36 PM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes wrote:



On January 4, 2016 at 3:05 PM Craig via Mercedes 
wrote:
And I should clarify that it's the power-to-weight ratio, not the raw
horsepower. Something heavier will need more; something lighter (like the
1969 Lotus Europa I had when in the USAF) will need less.

Yes. I was thinking 275hp is more than adequate in my W140, but would be quite a
handful if my W201 had it.

Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] Poll: How much power is too much?

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

Randy is right, my truck is a gasser.
I think you'll find that diesel engines get worse fuel economy off boost. My 
'98 Jetta gets on boost around 1200rpm which makes me think something is wrong 
with my '05 Golf that rockets off at 2200. If you're not making boost until 3k 
something is wrong with the turbo or the wastegate.
Remember you asked how much power do you NEED not how much you might want. I'm 
sticking by my answer, especially if the electronic nanny controls are no 
present. Not having traction control my '96 Dakota 5.2l, 205hp was a real 
handful in any slippery spots. My 2010 Dodge 1500 has excellent traction 
control and the 345hp is easy to handle and excellent even in the snow, even in 
2wd.
I'm in favor of the idea of a graduated drivers licensing system where a higher 
level of training (and the requisite testing) allows you to have a more 
powerful vehicle. Most people should probably be limited to sub 100hp levels...
-Curt 

  From: Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
 To: "mercedes@okiebenz com" <mercedes@okiebenz.com> 
Cc: Karl Wittnebel <atypical...@gmail.com>
 Sent: Monday, January 4, 2016 2:25 PM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] Poll: How much power is too much?
   
Couple of differences from the Cummins. Top end there is like 2800 rpm and
the turbo is optimized for torque. Pretty sure you are rocking 600-plus
foot pounds of torque on that motor from 1200rpm or so. So the power and
torque is always there, more or less, throughout the rpm range, probably
with a vnt, and power does not increase dramatically with rpm.

The om606 has a 5500 red line (or so). Often the turbo will not boost until
3k (eg host hx40). So you get great economy off boost, but when you cane
it, all hell breaks loose. I plan to engineer around this to some degree,
but still. Maybe I will go hx35 instead, or compound.
>
> Thanks.
>
> On Jan 4, 2016 10:38 AM, "Curt Raymond via Mercedes" <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>>
>> Sensible upper limit? For like real actual people?
>> At the crank 150hp, realistically nobody NEEDS more than 150hp for
regular driving in a passenger vehicle.
>> 350hp at the wheels is huge, my Dodge 1500 has 345 at the crank and its
an animal. Walked away up big hills in the white mountains with a 240D on a
heavy UHaul trailer.
>> -Curt
>>
>>
>>      From: Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
>>  To: "mercedes@okiebenz com" <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
>> Cc: Karl Wittnebel <atypical...@gmail.com>
>>  Sent: Monday, January 4, 2016 1:20 PM
>>  Subject: [MBZ] Poll: How much power is too much?
>>
>> For a daily driver, and occasional wife use, what would be your sensible
>> upper limit? 400 crank/350 wheels with 400 ftlb torque? Thanks.
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>
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>>
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>>
>>
>>
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Re: [MBZ] Poll: How much power is too much?

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

> On January 4, 2016 at 3:05 PM Craig via Mercedes 
> wrote:

> And I should clarify that it's the power-to-weight ratio, not the raw
> horsepower. Something heavier will need more; something lighter (like the
> 1969 Lotus Europa I had when in the USAF) will need less.

Yes. I was thinking 275hp is more than adequate in my W140, but would be quite a
handful if my W201 had it. 

Mitch. 

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Re: [MBZ] Poll: How much power is too much?

[clay via Mercedes]

Uhm, 

I loved all 57HP in Gump.  A trusty OM615 pumping the car along the highway at 
a bone numbing 84MPH.  

I have yet to reach the top end of the M117 in the SL, or whatever beastie is 
powering a S430.  

clay 

2002 s430 - Victor, a Stately & well tailored chap
1974 450sl -  Frosch - Two tone green
1976 300D - Blei Vanst - it looks silvery
1972 220D - Gump - She was green, simple and ran
1995 E300D - Gave her life to save me against a Dame in a SUV
POS 1987 SDL - Beware Nigerian Scammers








On Jan 4, 2016, at 11:26 AM, Craig via Mercedes wrote:

> On Mon, 4 Jan 2016 10:20:03 -0800 Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes
>  wrote:
> 
>> For a daily driver, and occasional wife use, what would be your sensible
>> upper limit? 400 crank/350 wheels with 400 ftlb torque? Thanks.
> 
> Whatever a 1995 E320 has. The 1994 E420 was a lot of fun, but had more
> than what we really need.
> 
> 
> Craig
> 
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> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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> 

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Re: [MBZ] Poll: How much power is too much?

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

My Jetta TDI has 90 at the crank and its plenty, it scoots right along.


Curt

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android

From:"clay via Mercedes" <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
Date:Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 8:11 PM
Subject:Re: [MBZ] Poll: How much power is too much?

Uhm, 

I loved all 57HP in Gump.  A trusty OM615 pumping the car along the highway at 
a bone numbing 84MPH.  

I have yet to reach the top end of the M117 in the SL, or whatever beastie is 
powering a S430.  

clay 

2002 s430 - Victor, a Stately & well tailored chap
1974 450sl -  Frosch - Two tone green
1976 300D - Blei Vanst - it looks silvery
1972 220D - Gump - She was green, simple and ran
1995 E300D - Gave her life to save me against a Dame in a SUV
POS 1987 SDL - Beware Nigerian Scammers








On Jan 4, 2016, at 11:26 AM, Craig via Mercedes wrote:

> On Mon, 4 Jan 2016 10:20:03 -0800 Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes
> <mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
>> For a daily driver, and occasional wife use, what would be your sensible
>> upper limit? 400 crank/350 wheels with 400 ftlb torque? Thanks.
> 
> Whatever a 1995 E320 has. The 1994 E420 was a lot of fun, but had more
> than what we really need.
> 
> 
> Craig
> 
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> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com


> 

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Re: [MBZ] Poll: How much power is too much?

[OK Don via Mercedes]

There is the argument that it is more fun to drive a slow car fast than a
fast car slowly. I did enjoy the 220D, but I also enjoyed the 200+ HP MGA.

On Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 7:14 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> My Jetta TDI has 90 at the crank and its plenty, it scoots right along.
>
>
> Curt
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
>
> From:"clay via Mercedes" <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
> Date:Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 8:11 PM
> Subject:Re: [MBZ] Poll: How much power is too much?
>
> Uhm,
>
> I loved all 57HP in Gump.  A trusty OM615 pumping the car along the
> highway at a bone numbing 84MPH.
>
> I have yet to reach the top end of the M117 in the SL, or whatever beastie
> is powering a S430.
>
> clay
>
>


-- 
OK Don

*“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of
our people need it sorely on these accounts.”* – Mark Twain

"There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who
learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
for themselves."

WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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[MBZ] Poll: How much power is too much?

[Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes]

For a daily driver, and occasional wife use, what would be your sensible
upper limit? 400 crank/350 wheels with 400 ftlb torque? Thanks.
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Re: [MBZ] Poll: How much power is too much?

[Rich Thomas via Mercedes]

Wifey's ML dizzle has 450 lbft torque, it is lots of fun to excercise 
vigorously, goes like a rocket.


--R

On 1/4/16 1:20 PM, Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes wrote:

For a daily driver, and occasional wife use, what would be your sensible
upper limit? 400 crank/350 wheels with 400 ftlb torque? Thanks.
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