Re: [MBZ] Strange stub axle problem
The one that welded itself to the race would still turn. When I jacked the car up it, the wheel had a lot of free play. The bearings fell out from behind the wheel when I pulled the wheel off the spindle. I had to split the race off with a chisel. This was my Wife's 1972 Torino - she drove the car when we dated when we were first married. I cleaned up the spindle re-assembled everything with a new bearing from that day on, I could not adjust all of the free play out of the tire. There was so little play between the race spindle that I could not feel it by hand but I could feel the play when amplified across the face of the tire. We sold the car to a friend of her's when the car reached 270,000 miles. Her friend took it well past 300,000 miles. It had a 302 (5 liter) engine with a 2 barrel carburetor and a C6 automatic transmission. As far as I know, neither had been rebuilt. Thanks, Tom Hargrave www.kegkits.com 256-656-1924 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of archer Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2007 11:35 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Strange stub axle problem The stub axle is more properly called a spindle. Was the ridge far enough out that it lined up with the outer edge of the bearing race once it was installed? If so then it belongs there. It's been a long time. The bearing race seated okay after it got past the ridge. IIRC the ridge was just to the outside of the bearing race seating area. I've had bearings seize and they removed metal made the replacement bearing race loose on the spindle, not the other way around. That's been my experience with other cars. That's why this situation surprised me. The only exception was the one that welded itself to the spindle - that was interesting. Had that happen too. Very interesting if it happens while you're driving. Also, most don't realize that the original wheel bearings in our Mercedes were made in Japan or China. Tom Hargrave I don't believe the Chinese bearing I put on the 300D was a Mercedes bearing. It had a little too much play to be a quality bearing. Next time I grease the wheels I'll try a Mercedes bearing. It could have been that the U.S. mfg. bearings were a little tighter although that seems unlikely. Gerry -- On Behalf Of archer When I greased the front wheel bearings on the '83 300D the new bearing would not go on. There was a ridge next to where the bearing inner race seated. I sanded the ridge as much as I dared with emery cloth but the new bearing would still not go and I didn't want to try and drive it on. I took the new bearing back and got another new bearing, thinking the first one might be off-dimension but it wouldn't go on either. In desperation I went across the street to Autozone, thinking they might have foreign bearing with less precise dimensions, and got a Chinese bearing which went on with no problem. That was about 8 years ago and the Chinese bearing has caused no problems. I've often wondered how that ridge around the stub axle formed. I didn't think high strength steel such as is used in stub axles is malleable/plastic enough for a frozen bearing to create a ridge without it being raised to a temperature up in the 2000 degreeF range. That is pretty much true when working with a forge. High strength steel has to be a dull shade of red before it can be shaped. It would seem that such a temperature would make the stub axle unusable. Comment? Gerry ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Strange stub axle problem
From: Tom Hargrave [EMAIL PROTECTED] The one that welded itself to the race would still turn. When I jacked the car up it, the wheel had a lot of free play. The bearings fell out from behind the wheel when I pulled the wheel off the spindle. I had to split the race off with a chisel. This was my Wife's 1972 Torino - she drove the car when we dated when we were first married. I cleaned up the spindle re-assembled everything with a new bearing from that day on, I could not adjust all of the free play out of the tire. There was so little play between the race spindle that I could not feel it by hand but I could feel the play when amplified across the face of the tire. We sold the car to a friend of her's when the car reached 270,000 miles. Her friend took it well past 300,000 miles. It had a 302 (5 liter) engine with a 2 barrel carburetor and a C6 automatic transmission. As far as I know, neither had been rebuilt. Tom Hargrave -- It's amazing the car ran that long with with that much bearing play. You must have gotten just the right amount of pre-load on the bearing. Gerry ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Strange stub axle problem
Thu, 13 Sep 2007 17:39:17 -0400 archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote Subject: [MBZ] Strange stub axle problem When I greased the front wheel bearings on the '83 300D the new bearing would not go on. There was a ridge next to where the bearing inner race seated. I sanded the ridge as much as I dared with emery cloth but the new bearing would still not go and I didn't want to try and drive it on. I took the new bearing back and got another new bearing, thinking the first one might be off-dimension but it wouldn't go on either. In desperation I went across the street to Autozone, thinking they might have foreign bearing with less precise dimensions, and got a Chinese bearing which went on with no problem. That was about 8 years ago and the Chinese bearing has caused no problems. I've often wondered how that ridge around the stub axle formed. I didn't think high strength steel such as is used in stub axles is malleable/plastic enough for a frozen bearing to create a ridge without it being raised to a temperature up in the 2000 degreeF range. That is pretty much true when working with a forge. High strength steel has to be a dull shade of red before it can be shaped. It would seem that such a temperature would make the stub axle unusable. Comment? Gerry My comment: The spindles are not all that hard, you can file them easily, and a bearing moving in ways it's not supposed to will make its mark. I had this proved to me. A few years back the Ford pickup developed an odd noise somewhere around the front. Sometimes it would click click click, once it sounded like a lug nut loose inside a hubcap (took the hubcaps off and that did nothing to the noise), and it didn't do it all the time and wouldn't do it when I jacked up a wheel and spun it. WTF?, I said. It went on for months like that, sometimes making a little noise, most of the time no noise. Then one fateful afternoon it revealed itself. Terrible noise, lots of pieces scattered all over the pavement (fortunately in town at low speed), left front wheel wobbles big time. The outer front wheel bearing had been disintegrating all that time. It took the spindle with it and also the hub and the bearing race inside the hub - could not get it out. The spindle had ridges and worn areas and was generally cratered. I told about it to a friend who remarked It's a good thing that bearing finally came apart. You might never have figured it out. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Strange stub axle problem
The car ran an additional 30,000 miles for us with the free play between the inner bearing race the spindle. I don't know how the next owner did. Thanks, Tom Hargrave www.kegkits.com 256-656-1924 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of archer Sent: Friday, September 14, 2007 1:47 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Strange stub axle problem From: Tom Hargrave [EMAIL PROTECTED] The one that welded itself to the race would still turn. When I jacked the car up it, the wheel had a lot of free play. The bearings fell out from behind the wheel when I pulled the wheel off the spindle. I had to split the race off with a chisel. This was my Wife's 1972 Torino - she drove the car when we dated when we were first married. I cleaned up the spindle re-assembled everything with a new bearing from that day on, I could not adjust all of the free play out of the tire. There was so little play between the race spindle that I could not feel it by hand but I could feel the play when amplified across the face of the tire. We sold the car to a friend of her's when the car reached 270,000 miles. Her friend took it well past 300,000 miles. It had a 302 (5 liter) engine with a 2 barrel carburetor and a C6 automatic transmission. As far as I know, neither had been rebuilt. Tom Hargrave -- It's amazing the car ran that long with with that much bearing play. You must have gotten just the right amount of pre-load on the bearing. Gerry ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Strange stub axle problem
My dad's friend's wife had a Vega she drove from Portland, Maine to Augusta, Maine everyday, thats about an hour ride, maybe 50 miles. One night she'd worked late and was driving home at say 10pm when the car started to squeal. This was back before cell phones so she figured she'd just keep pushing for home. The squeal got louder and more horrible but she was almost home so she kept pushing. If you guessed a bearing siezed you'd be right. It carved the spindle until she pulled into her driveway and stopped at which point the right front wheel fell clean off. Dad bought the car for $100 (twice what the junkman would pay) put a new spindle in from the junkyard and drove it for 2 years... -Curt Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2007 02:43:07 -0500 From: Robert Bigham [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [MBZ] Strange stub axle problem To: mercedes@okiebenz.com Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII My comment: The spindles are not all that hard, you can file them easily, and a bearing moving in ways it's not supposed to will make its mark. I had this proved to me. A few years back the Ford pickup developed an odd noise somewhere around the front. Sometimes it would click click click, once it sounded like a lug nut loose inside a hubcap (took the hubcaps off and that did nothing to the noise), and it didn't do it all the time and wouldn't do it when I jacked up a wheel and spun it. WTF?, I said. It went on for months like that, sometimes making a little noise, most of the time no noise. Then one fateful afternoon it revealed itself. Terrible noise, lots of pieces scattered all over the pavement (fortunately in town at low speed), left front wheel wobbles big time. The outer front wheel bearing had been disintegrating all that time. It took the spindle with it and also the hub and the bearing race inside the hub - could not get it out. The spindle had ridges and worn areas and was generally cratered. I told about it to a friend who remarked It's a good thing that bearing finally came apart. You might never have figured it out. - Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s user panel and lay it on us. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Strange stub axle problem
Tom Hargrave wrote: The car ran an additional 30,000 miles for us with the free play between the inner bearing race the spindle. I don't know how the next owner did. The Horizon was like that the first time I took the back brakes off at 60-70k. It went 232k mi, with no trouble that I noticed from the original rear wheel bearings. I replaced the drums and bearings seals once but reused the hubs and bearings. The front sealed bearings went out at 75k and 120k, should have replaced both at 75k when the first one went. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
[MBZ] Strange stub axle problem
When I greased the front wheel bearings on the '83 300D the new bearing would not go on. There was a ridge next to where the bearing inner race seated. I sanded the ridge as much as I dared with emery cloth but the new bearing would still not go and I didn't want to try and drive it on. I took the new bearing back and got another new bearing, thinking the first one might be off-dimension but it wouldn't go on either. In desperation I went across the street to Autozone, thinking they might have foreign bearing with less precise dimensions, and got a Chinese bearing which went on with no problem. That was about 8 years ago and the Chinese bearing has caused no problems. I've often wondered how that ridge around the stub axle formed. I didn't think high strength steel such as is used in stub axles is malleable/plastic enough for a frozen bearing to create a ridge without it being raised to a temperature up in the 2000 degreeF range. That is pretty much true when working with a forge. High strength steel has to be a dull shade of red before it can be shaped. It would seem that such a temperature would make the stub axle unusable. Comment? Gerry ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Strange stub axle problem
archer wrote: When I greased the front wheel bearings on the '83 300D the new bearing would not go on. There was a ridge next to where the bearing inner race seated. I sanded the ridge as much as I dared with emery cloth but the new bearing would still not go and I didn't want to try and drive it on. I took the new bearing back and got another new bearing, thinking the first one might be off-dimension but it wouldn't go on either. In desperation I went across the street to Autozone, thinking they might have foreign bearing with less precise dimensions, and got a Chinese bearing which went on with no problem. That was about 8 years ago and the Chinese bearing has caused no problems. I've often wondered how that ridge around the stub axle formed. I didn't think high strength steel such as is used in stub axles is malleable/plastic enough for a frozen bearing to create a ridge without it being raised to a temperature up in the 2000 degreeF range. That is pretty much true when working with a forge. High strength steel has to be a dull shade of red before it can be shaped. It would seem that such a temperature would make the stub axle unusable. Comment? I have nothing to contribute to this... but I sure hope it doesn't turn into that one discussion about bearing fracture/cracking/shattering/etc (or whatever it was). ;) John ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Strange stub axle problem
The stub axle is more properly called a spindle. Was the ridge far enough out that it lined up with the outer edge of the bearing race once it was installed? If so then it belongs there. I've had bearings seize and they removed metal made the replacement bearing race loose on the spindle, not the other way around. The only exception was the one that welded itself to the spindle - that was interesting. Also, most don't realize that the original wheel bearings in our Mercedes were made in Japan or China. Thanks, Tom Hargrave www.kegkits.com 256-656-1924 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of archer Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2007 4:39 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: [MBZ] Strange stub axle problem When I greased the front wheel bearings on the '83 300D the new bearing would not go on. There was a ridge next to where the bearing inner race seated. I sanded the ridge as much as I dared with emery cloth but the new bearing would still not go and I didn't want to try and drive it on. I took the new bearing back and got another new bearing, thinking the first one might be off-dimension but it wouldn't go on either. In desperation I went across the street to Autozone, thinking they might have foreign bearing with less precise dimensions, and got a Chinese bearing which went on with no problem. That was about 8 years ago and the Chinese bearing has caused no problems. I've often wondered how that ridge around the stub axle formed. I didn't think high strength steel such as is used in stub axles is malleable/plastic enough for a frozen bearing to create a ridge without it being raised to a temperature up in the 2000 degreeF range. That is pretty much true when working with a forge. High strength steel has to be a dull shade of red before it can be shaped. It would seem that such a temperature would make the stub axle unusable. Comment? Gerry ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Strange stub axle problem
The stub axle is more properly called a spindle. Was the ridge far enough out that it lined up with the outer edge of the bearing race once it was installed? If so then it belongs there. It's been a long time. The bearing race seated okay after it got past the ridge. IIRC the ridge was just to the outside of the bearing race seating area. I've had bearings seize and they removed metal made the replacement bearing race loose on the spindle, not the other way around. That's been my experience with other cars. That's why this situation surprised me. The only exception was the one that welded itself to the spindle - that was interesting. Had that happen too. Very interesting if it happens while you're driving. Also, most don't realize that the original wheel bearings in our Mercedes were made in Japan or China. Tom Hargrave I don't believe the Chinese bearing I put on the 300D was a Mercedes bearing. It had a little too much play to be a quality bearing. Next time I grease the wheels I'll try a Mercedes bearing. It could have been that the U.S. mfg. bearings were a little tighter although that seems unlikely. Gerry -- On Behalf Of archer When I greased the front wheel bearings on the '83 300D the new bearing would not go on. There was a ridge next to where the bearing inner race seated. I sanded the ridge as much as I dared with emery cloth but the new bearing would still not go and I didn't want to try and drive it on. I took the new bearing back and got another new bearing, thinking the first one might be off-dimension but it wouldn't go on either. In desperation I went across the street to Autozone, thinking they might have foreign bearing with less precise dimensions, and got a Chinese bearing which went on with no problem. That was about 8 years ago and the Chinese bearing has caused no problems. I've often wondered how that ridge around the stub axle formed. I didn't think high strength steel such as is used in stub axles is malleable/plastic enough for a frozen bearing to create a ridge without it being raised to a temperature up in the 2000 degreeF range. That is pretty much true when working with a forge. High strength steel has to be a dull shade of red before it can be shaped. It would seem that such a temperature would make the stub axle unusable. Comment? Gerry ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Strange stub axle problem
My experience is that Timken bearings are tighter than others (I believe Benz OEM is SKF). They fit, but they are on the big side of the tolerance, and getting a race into the hub can be fun. Work fine, though. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Strange stub axle problem
That could have been the reason. I think the bearing that wouldn't go on was a Timken. Maybe I should have tapped it in. Gerry --- - Original Message - From: Peter Frederick [EMAIL PROTECTED] My experience is that Timken bearings are tighter than others (I believe Benz OEM is SKF). They fit, but they are on the big side of the tolerance, and getting a race into the hub can be fun. Work fine, though. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
