Re: [MBZ] Turbo hose

[clay monroe via Mercedes]

>From the diagrams, the lines were where they belong.


clay 

1974 450sl -  Frosch - Two tone green
1986 SDL - Polei
1982 300 SD - Allen

retired models-
2002 s430 - Victor, a Stately & well tailored crap
1976 300D - Blei Vanst - it looks silvery
1972 220D - Gump - She was green, simple and ran
1995 E300D - Gave her life to save me against a Dame in a SUV
POS 1987 SDL - Beware Nigerian Scammers







> On Jan 17, 2018, at 4:08 AM, MG via Mercedes  wrote:
> 
> Were the brown tubes on the wrong way around? That at least should be the 
> same on all the cars. There are so many diagrams, even for the same engine 
> that it's sometimes hard to tell which to use.
> 
> MG
> 
> clay monroe via Mercedes wrote:
>> The lines were hooked up prior to transmission work.  All vac lines were 
>> hooked back up following official diagram by the tech.  Car came back to me 
>> with starting issue that was not there before.  I used another diagram from 
>> interweb (BW) to trace lines.  Used the data provided here to attempt fix 
>> and solutions.  I plucked brown tubes and checked them for goodness, then 
>> installed them according to the diagram.  Then I pulled the EGR hose.
>> clay 1974 450sl -  Frosch - Two tone green
>> 1986 SDL - Polei
>> 1982 300 SD - Allen
>>> On Jan 16, 2018, at 4:53 AM, MG via Mercedes  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Explain please. If they were unhooked all the time then you would not be 
>>> able to shut the engine off with the key. How, where, when were they 
>>> unhooked and what were the results of that before any other changes.
>>> 
>>> MG
>>> 
>>> clay monroe via Mercedes wrote:
 Brown lines were unhooked and messed with
 
> On Jan 15, 2018, at 6:10 AM, MG via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> IF it failed in the open position wouldn't it be open all the time even 
> without the vac hooked up? The only thing I can see the vac doing is 
> opening it up after the first start as the vac is building up. Then it 
> gets held open all the time, till the vac all goes away, which would give 
> power problems when driving also. It also shows that all the vac line 
> routing on the engine is screwed up cause the EGR isn't supposed to get 
> vac except at specific times controlled by the valves on top of the valve 
> cover. At least on the 617.
> 
> What I want to know is did Clay change the brown lines around?
> 
> I can't really see enough exhaust getting through that small hole in the 
> EGR to cause hard starting but then the proof seems to be there. Also 
> gives another reason to block the EGR.
> 
> MG
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> 


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Re: [MBZ] Turbo hose

[MG via Mercedes]

Were the brown tubes on the wrong way around? That at least 
should be the same on all the cars. There are so many diagrams, 
even for the same engine that it's sometimes hard to tell which 
to use.


MG

clay monroe via Mercedes wrote:

The lines were hooked up prior to transmission work.  All vac lines were hooked 
back up following official diagram by the tech.  Car came back to me with 
starting issue that was not there before.  I used another diagram from interweb 
(BW) to trace lines.  Used the data provided here to attempt fix and solutions. 
 I plucked brown tubes and checked them for goodness, then installed them 
according to the diagram.  Then I pulled the EGR hose.



clay 


1974 450sl -  Frosch - Two tone green
1986 SDL - Polei
1982 300 SD - Allen



On Jan 16, 2018, at 4:53 AM, MG via Mercedes  wrote:

Explain please. If they were unhooked all the time then you would not be able 
to shut the engine off with the key. How, where, when were they unhooked and 
what were the results of that before any other changes.

MG

clay monroe via Mercedes wrote:

Brown lines were unhooked and messed with


On Jan 15, 2018, at 6:10 AM, MG via Mercedes  wrote:

IF it failed in the open position wouldn't it be open all the time even without 
the vac hooked up? The only thing I can see the vac doing is opening it up 
after the first start as the vac is building up. Then it gets held open all the 
time, till the vac all goes away, which would give power problems when driving 
also. It also shows that all the vac line routing on the engine is screwed up 
cause the EGR isn't supposed to get vac except at specific times controlled by 
the valves on top of the valve cover. At least on the 617.

What I want to know is did Clay change the brown lines around?

I can't really see enough exhaust getting through that small hole in the EGR to 
cause hard starting but then the proof seems to be there. Also gives another 
reason to block the EGR.

MG


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Re: [MBZ] Turbo hose

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

which means they were probably reversed.  Both brown lines look the same.


clay monroe via Mercedes 
January 16, 2018 at 4:21 PM
The lines were hooked up prior to transmission work. All vac lines 
were hooked back up following official diagram by the tech. Car came 
back to me with starting issue that was not there before. I used 
another diagram from interweb (BW) to trace lines. Used the data 
provided here to attempt fix and solutions. I plucked brown tubes and 
checked them for goodness, then installed them according to the 
diagram. Then I pulled the EGR hose.




clay

1974 450sl - Frosch - Two tone green
1986 SDL - Polei
1982 300 SD - Allen



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Re: [MBZ] Turbo hose

[clay monroe via Mercedes]

The lines were hooked up prior to transmission work.  All vac lines were hooked 
back up following official diagram by the tech.  Car came back to me with 
starting issue that was not there before.  I used another diagram from interweb 
(BW) to trace lines.  Used the data provided here to attempt fix and solutions. 
 I plucked brown tubes and checked them for goodness, then installed them 
according to the diagram.  Then I pulled the EGR hose.



clay 

1974 450sl -  Frosch - Two tone green
1986 SDL - Polei
1982 300 SD - Allen


> On Jan 16, 2018, at 4:53 AM, MG via Mercedes  wrote:
> 
> Explain please. If they were unhooked all the time then you would not be able 
> to shut the engine off with the key. How, where, when were they unhooked and 
> what were the results of that before any other changes.
> 
> MG
> 
> clay monroe via Mercedes wrote:
>> Brown lines were unhooked and messed with
>> 
>>> On Jan 15, 2018, at 6:10 AM, MG via Mercedes  wrote:
>>> 
>>> IF it failed in the open position wouldn't it be open all the time even 
>>> without the vac hooked up? The only thing I can see the vac doing is 
>>> opening it up after the first start as the vac is building up. Then it gets 
>>> held open all the time, till the vac all goes away, which would give power 
>>> problems when driving also. It also shows that all the vac line routing on 
>>> the engine is screwed up cause the EGR isn't supposed to get vac except at 
>>> specific times controlled by the valves on top of the valve cover. At least 
>>> on the 617.
>>> 
>>> What I want to know is did Clay change the brown lines around?
>>> 
>>> I can't really see enough exhaust getting through that small hole in the 
>>> EGR to cause hard starting but then the proof seems to be there. Also gives 
>>> another reason to block the EGR.
>>> 
>>> MG

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Re: [MBZ] Turbo hose

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

The official kit that used to be sold used a piece of 1/8" Stainless 
steel, and had 2 copper disks to plug the air/exhaust lined if the EGR 
was eliminated completely.  I'd vote for at least 1/16" SS, but 1/8" 
thick will be permanent.



Meade Dillon via Mercedes 
January 16, 2018 at 7:12 AM
I have "read on the internet" that soda can aluminum is too thin for
blocking off the EGR and presents a risk that it will go to pieces and
allow them to be ingested by the engine. Thin steel from a soup can is a
safer choice?

-
Max
Charleston SC


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Re: [MBZ] Turbo hose

[Meade Dillon via Mercedes]

I have "read on the internet" that soda can aluminum is too thin for
blocking off the EGR and presents a risk that it will go to pieces and
allow them to be ingested by the engine.  Thin steel from a soup can is a
safer choice?

-
Max
Charleston SC

On Tue, Jan 16, 2018 at 7:59 AM, MG via Mercedes 
wrote:

> if it is then that wasn't the cause of your starting or power problem, if
> you still have that. Failed open means just that it is open all the time
> even if there is no vacuum to it. Cut a piece of soda can and slip it under
> the EGR and bolt it back down to be certain.
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] Turbo hose

[MG via Mercedes]

if it is then that wasn't the cause of your starting or power 
problem, if you still have that. Failed open means just that it 
is open all the time even if there is no vacuum to it. Cut a 
piece of soda can and slip it under the EGR and bolt it back down 
to be certain.


MG

clay monroe via Mercedes wrote:

Probably is failed that way.  I will not be hooking it back up.  I need to wash 
the back side


Clay

in omnibus requiem quaesivi, et nusquam inveni nisi in angulo cum libro


On Jan 15, 2018, at 5:49 AM, Max Dillon via Mercedes  
wrote:

Interesting, is the EGR failed in open position?  That would also kill power 
and produce lots of smoke.
--
Max Dillon
Charleston SC
'87 300TD
'95 E300

On January 14, 2018 10:27:50 PM EST, clay monroe via Mercedes 
 wrote:

Due to all the wonderful assistance of the bright minds on list, I have
resolved the issue.

I used the 9mm hose to replace the perished one from EGR thing to Waste
Gate doo-hicky.  Then I gave more thought to how I sort of remembered
the way lines were attached.  I was sure one of the lines was not
hooked up, but now both were.  Kill the EGR was an idea, so I plucked
that line.  Fired right up after having already lit it off.

clay 
 
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Re: [MBZ] Turbo hose

[MG via Mercedes]

Explain please. If they were unhooked all the time then you would 
not be able to shut the engine off with the key. How, where, when 
were they unhooked and what were the results of that before any 
other changes.


MG

clay monroe via Mercedes wrote:

Brown lines were unhooked and messed with

clay 


1974 450sl -  Frosch - Two tone green
1986 SDL - Polei
1982 300 SD - Allen

retired models-
2002 s430 - Victor, a Stately & well tailored crap
1976 300D - Blei Vanst - it looks silvery
1972 220D - Gump - She was green, simple and ran
1995 E300D - Gave her life to save me against a Dame in a SUV
POS 1987 SDL - Beware Nigerian Scammers








On Jan 15, 2018, at 6:10 AM, MG via Mercedes  wrote:

IF it failed in the open position wouldn't it be open all the time even without 
the vac hooked up? The only thing I can see the vac doing is opening it up 
after the first start as the vac is building up. Then it gets held open all the 
time, till the vac all goes away, which would give power problems when driving 
also. It also shows that all the vac line routing on the engine is screwed up 
cause the EGR isn't supposed to get vac except at specific times controlled by 
the valves on top of the valve cover. At least on the 617.

What I want to know is did Clay change the brown lines around?

I can't really see enough exhaust getting through that small hole in the EGR to 
cause hard starting but then the proof seems to be there. Also gives another 
reason to block the EGR.

MG

Max Dillon via Mercedes wrote:

Interesting, is the EGR failed in open position?  That would also kill power 
and produce lots of smoke.

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Re: [MBZ] Turbo hose

[clay monroe via Mercedes]

Brown lines were unhooked and messed with

clay 

1974 450sl -  Frosch - Two tone green
1986 SDL - Polei
1982 300 SD - Allen

retired models-
2002 s430 - Victor, a Stately & well tailored crap
1976 300D - Blei Vanst - it looks silvery
1972 220D - Gump - She was green, simple and ran
1995 E300D - Gave her life to save me against a Dame in a SUV
POS 1987 SDL - Beware Nigerian Scammers







> On Jan 15, 2018, at 6:10 AM, MG via Mercedes  wrote:
> 
> IF it failed in the open position wouldn't it be open all the time even 
> without the vac hooked up? The only thing I can see the vac doing is opening 
> it up after the first start as the vac is building up. Then it gets held open 
> all the time, till the vac all goes away, which would give power problems 
> when driving also. It also shows that all the vac line routing on the engine 
> is screwed up cause the EGR isn't supposed to get vac except at specific 
> times controlled by the valves on top of the valve cover. At least on the 617.
> 
> What I want to know is did Clay change the brown lines around?
> 
> I can't really see enough exhaust getting through that small hole in the EGR 
> to cause hard starting but then the proof seems to be there. Also gives 
> another reason to block the EGR.
> 
> MG
> 
> Max Dillon via Mercedes wrote:
>> Interesting, is the EGR failed in open position?  That would also kill power 
>> and produce lots of smoke.
> 
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> 
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> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 


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Re: [MBZ] Turbo hose

[clay monroe via Mercedes]

Probably is failed that way.  I will not be hooking it back up.  I need to wash 
the back side


Clay

in omnibus requiem quaesivi, et nusquam inveni nisi in angulo cum libro

> On Jan 15, 2018, at 5:49 AM, Max Dillon via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> Interesting, is the EGR failed in open position?  That would also kill power 
> and produce lots of smoke.
> -- 
> Max Dillon
> Charleston SC
> '87 300TD
> '95 E300
> 
> On January 14, 2018 10:27:50 PM EST, clay monroe via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
>> Due to all the wonderful assistance of the bright minds on list, I have
>> resolved the issue.
>> 
>> I used the 9mm hose to replace the perished one from EGR thing to Waste
>> Gate doo-hicky.  Then I gave more thought to how I sort of remembered
>> the way lines were attached.  I was sure one of the lines was not
>> hooked up, but now both were.  Kill the EGR was an idea, so I plucked
>> that line.  Fired right up after having already lit it off.
>> 
>> clay 
 
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Re: [MBZ] Turbo hose

[MG via Mercedes]

IF it failed in the open position wouldn't it be open all the 
time even without the vac hooked up? The only thing I can see the 
vac doing is opening it up after the first start as the vac is 
building up. Then it gets held open all the time, till the vac 
all goes away, which would give power problems when driving also. 
It also shows that all the vac line routing on the engine is 
screwed up cause the EGR isn't supposed to get vac except at 
specific times controlled by the valves on top of the valve 
cover. At least on the 617.


What I want to know is did Clay change the brown lines around?

I can't really see enough exhaust getting through that small hole 
in the EGR to cause hard starting but then the proof seems to be 
there. Also gives another reason to block the EGR.


MG

Max Dillon via Mercedes wrote:

Interesting, is the EGR failed in open position?  That would also kill power 
and produce lots of smoke.


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Re: [MBZ] Turbo hose

[Max Dillon via Mercedes]

Interesting, is the EGR failed in open position?  That would also kill power 
and produce lots of smoke.
-- 
Max Dillon
Charleston SC
'87 300TD
'95 E300

On January 14, 2018 10:27:50 PM EST, clay monroe via Mercedes 
 wrote:
>Due to all the wonderful assistance of the bright minds on list, I have
>resolved the issue.
>
>I used the 9mm hose to replace the perished one from EGR thing to Waste
>Gate doo-hicky.  Then I gave more thought to how I sort of remembered
>the way lines were attached.  I was sure one of the lines was not
>hooked up, but now both were.  Kill the EGR was an idea, so I plucked
>that line.  Fired right up after having already lit it off.
>
>clay 
>
>1974 450sl -  Frosch - Two tone green
>1986 SDL - Polei
>1982 300 SD - Allen
>
>retired models-
>2002 s430 - Victor, a Stately & well tailored crap
>1976 300D - Blei Vanst - it looks silvery
>1972 220D - Gump - She was green, simple and ran
>1995 E300D - Gave her life to save me against a Dame in a SUV
>POS 1987 SDL - Beware Nigerian Scammers
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>> On Jan 13, 2018, at 9:27 PM, Michael Esh via Mercedes
> wrote:
>> 
>> My issue was hard starting when engine was hot. The issue came on
>gradually over a couple years, becoming a problem in the summer and
>then no issues all winter long.  It finally got to the point of having
>to wait 30 minutes or so before I could restart the car during the
>summer months and finally started causing problem even the winter.   I
>ended up replacing the injection pump and never having the problem
>again. 
>> 
>> Michael E. Esh
>> 
>> 
>>> On Jan 13, 2018, at 10:05 AM, Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes
> wrote:
>>> 
>>> This is something I have never heard. Why does ice help?
>>> 
>>> Boost should not have anything to do with starting.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Jan 12, 2018 8:33 PM, "Michael Esh via Mercedes"
>
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> My experience with hard hot starts came down to replacing the
>injection
>>> pump on my84 300D.  Someone on the list told me to throw a bag of
>ice on
>>> the pump next time it wouldn’t start. I did just that and it started
>up
>>> within minutes.   I never had a problem in the winter, only summer.
>>> 
>>> Michael E. Esh
>>> 
>>> 
 On Jan 12, 2018, at 10:18 PM, Max Dillon via Mercedes <
>>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
 
 I think on my '87 wagon, OM603, it's just standard fuel hose. 
>FLAPS
>>> should have something that fits.
 
 I don't see how this would affect hot starts.  My suspicion is that
>the
>>> cause of a hot start problem is a worn out injection pump.
 --
 Max Dillon
 Charleston SC
 '87 300TD
 '95 E300
 
> On January 12, 2018 5:33:49 PM EST, clay monroe via Mercedes <
>>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> Before I hack the rubber bits and can not drive the car for a
>while.
> Any insight into the ID of the waste gate hose?   Mine is perished
>and
> I suspect it is the cause of hot start trouble.   Something is
>making
> the turbo not spool up on a warm engine.  It takes a few attempts
>to
> get proper fuel flow to the engine, or make power.
> 
> clay
> 
> 1974 450sl -  Frosch - Two tone green
> 1986 SDL - Polei
> 1982 300 SD - Allen
> 
> retired models-
> 2002 s430 - Victor, a Stately & well tailored crap
> 1976 300D - Blei Vanst - it looks silvery
> 1972 220D - Gump - She was green, simple and ran
> 1995 E300D - Gave her life to save me against a Dame in a SUV
> POS 1987 SDL - Beware Nigerian Scammers
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
 ___
 http://www.okiebenz.com
 
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 To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
 http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
 
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>> 
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>>> 
>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>> ___
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>>> 
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>>> 
>> 
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>> 
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>> 

Re: [MBZ] Turbo hose

[clay monroe via Mercedes]

Due to all the wonderful assistance of the bright minds on list, I have 
resolved the issue.

I used the 9mm hose to replace the perished one from EGR thing to Waste Gate 
doo-hicky.  Then I gave more thought to how I sort of remembered the way lines 
were attached.  I was sure one of the lines was not hooked up, but now both 
were.  Kill the EGR was an idea, so I plucked that line.  Fired right up after 
having already lit it off.

clay 

1974 450sl -  Frosch - Two tone green
1986 SDL - Polei
1982 300 SD - Allen

retired models-
2002 s430 - Victor, a Stately & well tailored crap
1976 300D - Blei Vanst - it looks silvery
1972 220D - Gump - She was green, simple and ran
1995 E300D - Gave her life to save me against a Dame in a SUV
POS 1987 SDL - Beware Nigerian Scammers







> On Jan 13, 2018, at 9:27 PM, Michael Esh via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> My issue was hard starting when engine was hot. The issue came on gradually 
> over a couple years, becoming a problem in the summer and then no issues all 
> winter long.  It finally got to the point of having to wait 30 minutes or so 
> before I could restart the car during the summer months and finally started 
> causing problem even the winter.   I ended up replacing the injection pump 
> and never having the problem again. 
> 
> Michael E. Esh
> 
> 
>> On Jan 13, 2018, at 10:05 AM, Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> This is something I have never heard. Why does ice help?
>> 
>> Boost should not have anything to do with starting.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Jan 12, 2018 8:33 PM, "Michael Esh via Mercedes" 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> My experience with hard hot starts came down to replacing the injection
>> pump on my84 300D.  Someone on the list told me to throw a bag of ice on
>> the pump next time it wouldn’t start. I did just that and it started up
>> within minutes.   I never had a problem in the winter, only summer.
>> 
>> Michael E. Esh
>> 
>> 
>>> On Jan 12, 2018, at 10:18 PM, Max Dillon via Mercedes <
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I think on my '87 wagon, OM603, it's just standard fuel hose.  FLAPS
>> should have something that fits.
>>> 
>>> I don't see how this would affect hot starts.  My suspicion is that the
>> cause of a hot start problem is a worn out injection pump.
>>> --
>>> Max Dillon
>>> Charleston SC
>>> '87 300TD
>>> '95 E300
>>> 
 On January 12, 2018 5:33:49 PM EST, clay monroe via Mercedes <
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
 Before I hack the rubber bits and can not drive the car for a while.
 Any insight into the ID of the waste gate hose?   Mine is perished and
 I suspect it is the cause of hot start trouble.   Something is making
 the turbo not spool up on a warm engine.  It takes a few attempts to
 get proper fuel flow to the engine, or make power.
 
 clay
 
 1974 450sl -  Frosch - Two tone green
 1986 SDL - Polei
 1982 300 SD - Allen
 
 retired models-
 2002 s430 - Victor, a Stately & well tailored crap
 1976 300D - Blei Vanst - it looks silvery
 1972 220D - Gump - She was green, simple and ran
 1995 E300D - Gave her life to save me against a Dame in a SUV
 POS 1987 SDL - Beware Nigerian Scammers
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 ___
 http://www.okiebenz.com
 
 To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
 
 To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
 http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>> ___
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>>> 
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Re: [MBZ] Turbo hose

[Michael Esh via Mercedes]

My issue was hard starting when engine was hot. The issue came on gradually 
over a couple years, becoming a problem in the summer and then no issues all 
winter long.  It finally got to the point of having to wait 30 minutes or so 
before I could restart the car during the summer months and finally started 
causing problem even the winter.   I ended up replacing the injection pump and 
never having the problem again. 

Michael E. Esh


> On Jan 13, 2018, at 10:05 AM, Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> This is something I have never heard. Why does ice help?
> 
> Boost should not have anything to do with starting.
> 
> 
> 
> On Jan 12, 2018 8:33 PM, "Michael Esh via Mercedes" 
> wrote:
> 
> My experience with hard hot starts came down to replacing the injection
> pump on my84 300D.  Someone on the list told me to throw a bag of ice on
> the pump next time it wouldn’t start. I did just that and it started up
> within minutes.   I never had a problem in the winter, only summer.
> 
> Michael E. Esh
> 
> 
>> On Jan 12, 2018, at 10:18 PM, Max Dillon via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>> 
>> I think on my '87 wagon, OM603, it's just standard fuel hose.  FLAPS
> should have something that fits.
>> 
>> I don't see how this would affect hot starts.  My suspicion is that the
> cause of a hot start problem is a worn out injection pump.
>> --
>> Max Dillon
>> Charleston SC
>> '87 300TD
>> '95 E300
>> 
>>> On January 12, 2018 5:33:49 PM EST, clay monroe via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>>> Before I hack the rubber bits and can not drive the car for a while.
>>> Any insight into the ID of the waste gate hose?   Mine is perished and
>>> I suspect it is the cause of hot start trouble.   Something is making
>>> the turbo not spool up on a warm engine.  It takes a few attempts to
>>> get proper fuel flow to the engine, or make power.
>>> 
>>> clay
>>> 
>>> 1974 450sl -  Frosch - Two tone green
>>> 1986 SDL - Polei
>>> 1982 300 SD - Allen
>>> 
>>> retired models-
>>> 2002 s430 - Victor, a Stately & well tailored crap
>>> 1976 300D - Blei Vanst - it looks silvery
>>> 1972 220D - Gump - She was green, simple and ran
>>> 1995 E300D - Gave her life to save me against a Dame in a SUV
>>> POS 1987 SDL - Beware Nigerian Scammers
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
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>>> 
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>>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
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Re: [MBZ] Turbo hose

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

> On January 14, 2018 at 12:06 AM clay monroe via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> ok,
> 
> Fire it up, turn off, no start, pull brown lines and hook back in.

I didn't mean plug it back in before restarting, I meant stick a golf tee in it.
But leaving it loose wouldn't hurt the ability to start and run, so I don't 
know why I suggested plugging it in the first place, except I always cork 
vacuum lines that I unplug and am going to leave unplugged.

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Re: [MBZ] Turbo hose

[clay monroe via Mercedes]

ok,

Fire it up, turn off, no start, pull brown lines and hook back in.

will do that as well.


clay 

1974 450sl -  Frosch - Two tone green
1986 SDL - Polei
1982 300 SD - Allen

retired models-
2002 s430 - Victor, a Stately & well tailored crap
1976 300D - Blei Vanst - it looks silvery
1972 220D - Gump - She was green, simple and ran
1995 E300D - Gave her life to save me against a Dame in a SUV
POS 1987 SDL - Beware Nigerian Scammers







> On Jan 13, 2018, at 8:38 PM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> What if you start it, shut it off ten seconds later and try to restart it?
> If it won't restart, remove and plug the hose on the shutoff solenoid and try 
> again. 
> 
> Mitch.
> 
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Re: [MBZ] Turbo hose

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

What if you start it, shut it off ten seconds later and try to restart it?
If it won't restart, remove and plug the hose on the shutoff solenoid and try 
again. 

Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] Turbo hose

[clay monroe via Mercedes]

Ah, good idea


clay 

1974 450sl -  Frosch - Two tone green
1986 SDL - Polei
1982 300 SD - Allen




> On Jan 13, 2018, at 6:42 PM, MG via Mercedes  wrote:
> 
> Just for grins and giggles try switching the two brown colored vacuum lines 
> around. Take the one from the shutoff on the injection pump and connect it in 
> place of the one on the vacuum supply line to the brake booster and vice 
> versa.
> 
> MG
> 
> clay monroe via Mercedes wrote:
>> I put in for the 750k km badge for the car.  There is vibration at idle, 
>> which I attribute to motor mounts.  There was no trouble with the engine or 
>> starting no matter the temperature of engine or outside.  Once the trans guy 
>> got done with the car, it will not want to start again right off, even if I 
>> only lit it off and took it around the bloc, let alone ten miles down the 
>> road.

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Re: [MBZ] Turbo hose

[MG via Mercedes]

Just for grins and giggles try switching the two brown colored 
vacuum lines around. Take the one from the shutoff on the 
injection pump and connect it in place of the one on the vacuum 
supply line to the brake booster and vice versa.


MG

clay monroe via Mercedes wrote:

I put in for the 750k km badge for the car.  There is vibration at idle, which 
I attribute to motor mounts.  There was no trouble with the engine or starting 
no matter the temperature of engine or outside.  Once the trans guy got done 
with the car, it will not want to start again right off, even if I only lit it 
off and took it around the bloc, let alone ten miles down the road.


clay 


1974 450sl -  Frosch - Two tone green
1986 SDL - Polei
1982 300 SD - Allen

retired models-
2002 s430 - Victor, a Stately & well tailored crap
1976 300D - Blei Vanst - it looks silvery
1972 220D - Gump - She was green, simple and ran
1995 E300D - Gave her life to save me against a Dame in a SUV
POS 1987 SDL - Beware Nigerian Scammers








On Jan 13, 2018, at 8:11 AM, Peter Frederick via Mercedes 
 wrote:

The injection pump, hard starts, and idle vibration are a complicated story on 
the W123 5 cylinder (and only the five, four and six don't have the issue).

The root problem is the longitudinal vibration inherent in 5 cylinder engines.  
It's fairly strong in the OM617, and by accident or by design constraints that 
vibration at idle sets up a sympathetic vibration in the fuel control rack in 
the IP, resulting in very hard shaking at idle speed.

This is controlled by a rack dampner spring on the forward end of the rack, and 
that works well for most engines, but in the case of the 617, the spring is too 
weak and softens a bit with age, resulting in more or  less severe idle 
vibration.  MB issued several different adjuster bolts to address the issue, 
but on high milage engines you get some related issues.

Specifically, if you adjust out the idle vibration completely, the rack  becomes too "stiff" (or some other issue is created) causing inadequate fuel delivery for hot starts.  Often the owner will have to accept some idle vibration, often at annoying levels, or face severe hard start issues, including complete inability to start a hot engine.  


Ice on the IP will cool it off to the point it will start reasonably well, but 
it's not a solution, really just a work-around.

For the current situation, I recommend adjusting the rack dampner bolt with a 
hot engine, and only reduce the vibration to a bearable level, don't attempt to 
remove it completely.  If hard starts hot persist, back out on the bolt a 
little and see if that helps -- it will result in more vibration at idle, but 
that's better than a car that won't start.

If acceptable idle vibration and hot starts cannot be simultaneously achieved, 
it's time for a pump rebuild -- the combination of spring weakening and 
rack/plunger-sleeve wear can't be fixed any other way.  You may get lucky and a 
re-calibration of the rack may help, but that till requires a major tear-down 
of the pump.  Hard to find a shop now that can do this anyway, in-line pumps 
are going the way of he do-do.

This is usually a very high milage issue
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Re: [MBZ] Turbo hose

[clay monroe via Mercedes]

I put in for the 750k km badge for the car.  There is vibration at idle, which 
I attribute to motor mounts.  There was no trouble with the engine or starting 
no matter the temperature of engine or outside.  Once the trans guy got done 
with the car, it will not want to start again right off, even if I only lit it 
off and took it around the bloc, let alone ten miles down the road.


clay 

1974 450sl -  Frosch - Two tone green
1986 SDL - Polei
1982 300 SD - Allen

retired models-
2002 s430 - Victor, a Stately & well tailored crap
1976 300D - Blei Vanst - it looks silvery
1972 220D - Gump - She was green, simple and ran
1995 E300D - Gave her life to save me against a Dame in a SUV
POS 1987 SDL - Beware Nigerian Scammers







> On Jan 13, 2018, at 8:11 AM, Peter Frederick via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> The injection pump, hard starts, and idle vibration are a complicated story 
> on the W123 5 cylinder (and only the five, four and six don't have the issue).
> 
> The root problem is the longitudinal vibration inherent in 5 cylinder 
> engines.  It's fairly strong in the OM617, and by accident or by design 
> constraints that vibration at idle sets up a sympathetic vibration in the 
> fuel control rack in the IP, resulting in very hard shaking at idle speed.
> 
> This is controlled by a rack dampner spring on the forward end of the rack, 
> and that works well for most engines, but in the case of the 617, the spring 
> is too weak and softens a bit with age, resulting in more or  less severe 
> idle vibration.  MB issued several different adjuster bolts to address the 
> issue, but on high milage engines you get some related issues.
> 
> Specifically, if you adjust out the idle vibration completely, the rack  
> becomes too "stiff" (or some other issue is created) causing inadequate fuel 
> delivery for hot starts.  Often the owner will have to accept some idle 
> vibration, often at annoying levels, or face severe hard start issues, 
> including complete inability to start a hot engine.  
> 
> Ice on the IP will cool it off to the point it will start reasonably well, 
> but it's not a solution, really just a work-around.
> 
> For the current situation, I recommend adjusting the rack dampner bolt with a 
> hot engine, and only reduce the vibration to a bearable level, don't attempt 
> to remove it completely.  If hard starts hot persist, back out on the bolt a 
> little and see if that helps -- it will result in more vibration at idle, but 
> that's better than a car that won't start.
> 
> If acceptable idle vibration and hot starts cannot be simultaneously 
> achieved, it's time for a pump rebuild -- the combination of spring weakening 
> and rack/plunger-sleeve wear can't be fixed any other way.  You may get lucky 
> and a re-calibration of the rack may help, but that till requires a major 
> tear-down of the pump.  Hard to find a shop now that can do this anyway, 
> in-line pumps are going the way of he do-do.
> 
> This is usually a very high milage issue
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> 
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Re: [MBZ] Turbo hose

[clay monroe via Mercedes]

No mistype.  I have a 3/4 FLAPS hose that sort of might fit


clay 

1974 450sl -  Frosch - Two tone green
1986 SDL - Polei
1982 300 SD - Allen

retired models-
2002 s430 - Victor, a Stately & well tailored crap
1976 300D - Blei Vanst - it looks silvery
1972 220D - Gump - She was green, simple and ran
1995 E300D - Gave her life to save me against a Dame in a SUV
POS 1987 SDL - Beware Nigerian Scammers







> On Jan 13, 2018, at 6:18 AM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> 
>> On January 13, 2018 at 12:03 AM Craig via Mercedes  
>> wrote:
>> 3/4" = 0.750" or 19.05 mm
> 
> 
> Now that's funny. 
> Clay probably mistyped 3/4 when he meant to say 1/4.
> Then Curt misread it as 3/8 when he corrected Clay. 
> 
> Mitch.
> 
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> 
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Re: [MBZ] Turbo hose

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

I looked at yours before I saw Craigs... Now I get it.
That'll teach me to send math emails before bed...
-Curt
 

On Saturday, January 13, 2018, 9:18:49 AM EST, Mitch Haley via Mercedes 
 wrote:  
 
 
> On January 13, 2018 at 12:03 AM Craig via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 3/4" = 0.750" or 19.05 mm


Now that's funny. 
Clay probably mistyped 3/4 when he meant to say 1/4.
Then Curt misread it as 3/8 when he corrected Clay. 

Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] Turbo hose

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

Wha?3/4 = .753/8 - .375
You even got me to check myself with a calculator...
-Curt
 

On Saturday, January 13, 2018, 9:18:49 AM EST, Mitch Haley via Mercedes 
 wrote:  
 
 
> On January 13, 2018 at 12:03 AM Craig via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 3/4" = 0.750" or 19.05 mm


Now that's funny. 
Clay probably mistyped 3/4 when he meant to say 1/4.
Then Curt misread it as 3/8 when he corrected Clay. 

Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] Turbo hose

[Peter Frederick via Mercedes]

The injection pump, hard starts, and idle vibration are a complicated story on 
the W123 5 cylinder (and only the five, four and six don't have the issue).

The root problem is the longitudinal vibration inherent in 5 cylinder engines.  
It's fairly strong in the OM617, and by accident or by design constraints that 
vibration at idle sets up a sympathetic vibration in the fuel control rack in 
the IP, resulting in very hard shaking at idle speed.

This is controlled by a rack dampner spring on the forward end of the rack, and 
that works well for most engines, but in the case of the 617, the spring is too 
weak and softens a bit with age, resulting in more or  less severe idle 
vibration.  MB issued several different adjuster bolts to address the issue, 
but on high milage engines you get some related issues.

Specifically, if you adjust out the idle vibration completely, the rack  
becomes too "stiff" (or some other issue is created) causing inadequate fuel 
delivery for hot starts.  Often the owner will have to accept some idle 
vibration, often at annoying levels, or face severe hard start issues, 
including complete inability to start a hot engine.  

Ice on the IP will cool it off to the point it will start reasonably well, but 
it's not a solution, really just a work-around.

For the current situation, I recommend adjusting the rack dampner bolt with a 
hot engine, and only reduce the vibration to a bearable level, don't attempt to 
remove it completely.  If hard starts hot persist, back out on the bolt a 
little and see if that helps -- it will result in more vibration at idle, but 
that's better than a car that won't start.

If acceptable idle vibration and hot starts cannot be simultaneously achieved, 
it's time for a pump rebuild -- the combination of spring weakening and 
rack/plunger-sleeve wear can't be fixed any other way.  You may get lucky and a 
re-calibration of the rack may help, but that till requires a major tear-down 
of the pump.  Hard to find a shop now that can do this anyway, in-line pumps 
are going the way of he do-do.

This is usually a very high milage issue
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Re: [MBZ] Turbo hose

[Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes]

This is something I have never heard. Why does ice help?

Boost should not have anything to do with starting.



On Jan 12, 2018 8:33 PM, "Michael Esh via Mercedes" 
wrote:

My experience with hard hot starts came down to replacing the injection
pump on my84 300D.  Someone on the list told me to throw a bag of ice on
the pump next time it wouldn’t start. I did just that and it started up
within minutes.   I never had a problem in the winter, only summer.

Michael E. Esh


> On Jan 12, 2018, at 10:18 PM, Max Dillon via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
> I think on my '87 wagon, OM603, it's just standard fuel hose.  FLAPS
should have something that fits.
>
> I don't see how this would affect hot starts.  My suspicion is that the
cause of a hot start problem is a worn out injection pump.
> --
> Max Dillon
> Charleston SC
> '87 300TD
> '95 E300
>
>> On January 12, 2018 5:33:49 PM EST, clay monroe via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>> Before I hack the rubber bits and can not drive the car for a while.
>> Any insight into the ID of the waste gate hose?   Mine is perished and
>> I suspect it is the cause of hot start trouble.   Something is making
>> the turbo not spool up on a warm engine.  It takes a few attempts to
>> get proper fuel flow to the engine, or make power.
>>
>> clay
>>
>> 1974 450sl -  Frosch - Two tone green
>> 1986 SDL - Polei
>> 1982 300 SD - Allen
>>
>> retired models-
>> 2002 s430 - Victor, a Stately & well tailored crap
>> 1976 300D - Blei Vanst - it looks silvery
>> 1972 220D - Gump - She was green, simple and ran
>> 1995 E300D - Gave her life to save me against a Dame in a SUV
>> POS 1987 SDL - Beware Nigerian Scammers
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
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Re: [MBZ] Turbo hose

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

> On January 13, 2018 at 12:03 AM Craig via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 3/4" = 0.750" or 19.05 mm


Now that's funny. 
Clay probably mistyped 3/4 when he meant to say 1/4.
Then Curt misread it as 3/8 when he corrected Clay. 

Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] Turbo hose

[Craig via Mercedes]

On Sat, 13 Jan 2018 04:02:42 + (UTC) Curt Raymond via Mercedes
 wrote:

> 3/4" = .375 or around 9.5mm
> 7mm = .275"

3/4" = 0.750" or 19.05 mm


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] Turbo hose

[Michael Esh via Mercedes]

My experience with hard hot starts came down to replacing the injection pump on 
my84 300D.  Someone on the list told me to throw a bag of ice on the pump next 
time it wouldn’t start. I did just that and it started up within minutes.   I 
never had a problem in the winter, only summer. 

Michael E. Esh


> On Jan 12, 2018, at 10:18 PM, Max Dillon via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> I think on my '87 wagon, OM603, it's just standard fuel hose.  FLAPS should 
> have something that fits.
> 
> I don't see how this would affect hot starts.  My suspicion is that the cause 
> of a hot start problem is a worn out injection pump.
> -- 
> Max Dillon
> Charleston SC
> '87 300TD
> '95 E300
> 
>> On January 12, 2018 5:33:49 PM EST, clay monroe via Mercedes 
>>  wrote:
>> Before I hack the rubber bits and can not drive the car for a while. 
>> Any insight into the ID of the waste gate hose?   Mine is perished and
>> I suspect it is the cause of hot start trouble.   Something is making
>> the turbo not spool up on a warm engine.  It takes a few attempts to
>> get proper fuel flow to the engine, or make power.
>> 
>> clay 
>> 
>> 1974 450sl -  Frosch - Two tone green
>> 1986 SDL - Polei
>> 1982 300 SD - Allen
>> 
>> retired models-
>> 2002 s430 - Victor, a Stately & well tailored crap
>> 1976 300D - Blei Vanst - it looks silvery
>> 1972 220D - Gump - She was green, simple and ran
>> 1995 E300D - Gave her life to save me against a Dame in a SUV
>> POS 1987 SDL - Beware Nigerian Scammers
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
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Re: [MBZ] Turbo hose

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

3/4" = .375 or around 9.5mm
7mm = .275"

-Curt


On Friday, January 12, 2018, 10:56:41 PM EST, clay monroe via Mercedes 
 wrote: 


Not to my thinking.

The issue began after the shop adjusted the transmission.  Replaced some pots 
and hooked up hoses and replaced perished bits.  The issue never took place 
prior to that, and the guy at the shop commented on how it was NA.  I think he 
got the trouble when he tried to move the car on testing.

I have an almost right size hose.  3/4” or 7mm?

clay 

1974 450sl -  Frosch - Two tone green
1986 SDL - Polei
1982 300 SD - Allen

retired models-
2002 s430 - Victor, a Stately & well tailored crap
1976 300D - Blei Vanst - it looks silvery
1972 220D - Gump - She was green, simple and ran
1995 E300D - Gave her life to save me against a Dame in a SUV
POS 1987 SDL - Beware Nigerian Scammers







> On Jan 12, 2018, at 7:18 PM, Max Dillon via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> I think on my '87 wagon, OM603, it's just standard fuel hose.  FLAPS should 
> have something that fits.
> 
> I don't see how this would affect hot starts.  My suspicion is that the cause 
> of a hot start problem is a worn out injection pump.
> -- 
> Max Dillon
> Charleston SC
> '87 300TD
> '95 E300
> 
> On January 12, 2018 5:33:49 PM EST, clay monroe via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
>> Before I hack the rubber bits and can not drive the car for a while. 
>> Any insight into the ID of the waste gate hose?  Mine is perished and
>> I suspect it is the cause of hot start trouble.  Something is making
>> the turbo not spool up on a warm engine.  It takes a few attempts to
>> get proper fuel flow to the engine, or make power.
>> 
>> clay 
>> 
>> 1974 450sl -  Frosch - Two tone green
>> 1986 SDL - Polei
>> 1982 300 SD - Allen
>> 
>> retired models-
>> 2002 s430 - Victor, a Stately & well tailored crap
>> 1976 300D - Blei Vanst - it looks silvery
>> 1972 220D - Gump - She was green, simple and ran
>> 1995 E300D - Gave her life to save me against a Dame in a SUV
>> POS 1987 SDL - Beware Nigerian Scammers
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

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Re: [MBZ] Turbo hose

[clay monroe via Mercedes]

Not to my thinking.

The issue began after the shop adjusted the transmission.  Replaced some pots 
and hooked up hoses and replaced perished bits.   The issue never took place 
prior to that, and the guy at the shop commented on how it was NA.  I think he 
got the trouble when he tried to move the car on testing.

 I have an almost right size hose.  3/4” or 7mm?

clay 

1974 450sl -  Frosch - Two tone green
1986 SDL - Polei
1982 300 SD - Allen

retired models-
2002 s430 - Victor, a Stately & well tailored crap
1976 300D - Blei Vanst - it looks silvery
1972 220D - Gump - She was green, simple and ran
1995 E300D - Gave her life to save me against a Dame in a SUV
POS 1987 SDL - Beware Nigerian Scammers







> On Jan 12, 2018, at 7:18 PM, Max Dillon via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> I think on my '87 wagon, OM603, it's just standard fuel hose.  FLAPS should 
> have something that fits.
> 
> I don't see how this would affect hot starts.  My suspicion is that the cause 
> of a hot start problem is a worn out injection pump.
> -- 
> Max Dillon
> Charleston SC
> '87 300TD
> '95 E300
> 
> On January 12, 2018 5:33:49 PM EST, clay monroe via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
>> Before I hack the rubber bits and can not drive the car for a while. 
>> Any insight into the ID of the waste gate hose?   Mine is perished and
>> I suspect it is the cause of hot start trouble.   Something is making
>> the turbo not spool up on a warm engine.  It takes a few attempts to
>> get proper fuel flow to the engine, or make power.
>> 
>> clay 
>> 
>> 1974 450sl -  Frosch - Two tone green
>> 1986 SDL - Polei
>> 1982 300 SD - Allen
>> 
>> retired models-
>> 2002 s430 - Victor, a Stately & well tailored crap
>> 1976 300D - Blei Vanst - it looks silvery
>> 1972 220D - Gump - She was green, simple and ran
>> 1995 E300D - Gave her life to save me against a Dame in a SUV
>> POS 1987 SDL - Beware Nigerian Scammers
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
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> 
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> 


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Re: [MBZ] Turbo hose

[Max Dillon via Mercedes]

I think on my '87 wagon, OM603, it's just standard fuel hose.  FLAPS should 
have something that fits.

I don't see how this would affect hot starts.  My suspicion is that the cause 
of a hot start problem is a worn out injection pump.
-- 
Max Dillon
Charleston SC
'87 300TD
'95 E300

On January 12, 2018 5:33:49 PM EST, clay monroe via Mercedes 
 wrote:
>Before I hack the rubber bits and can not drive the car for a while. 
>Any insight into the ID of the waste gate hose?   Mine is perished and
>I suspect it is the cause of hot start trouble.   Something is making
>the turbo not spool up on a warm engine.  It takes a few attempts to
>get proper fuel flow to the engine, or make power.
>
>clay 
>
>1974 450sl -  Frosch - Two tone green
>1986 SDL - Polei
>1982 300 SD - Allen
>
>retired models-
>2002 s430 - Victor, a Stately & well tailored crap
>1976 300D - Blei Vanst - it looks silvery
>1972 220D - Gump - She was green, simple and ran
>1995 E300D - Gave her life to save me against a Dame in a SUV
>POS 1987 SDL - Beware Nigerian Scammers
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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>
>To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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[MBZ] Turbo hose

[clay monroe via Mercedes]

Before I hack the rubber bits and can not drive the car for a while.  Any 
insight into the ID of the waste gate hose?   Mine is perished and I suspect it 
is the cause of hot start trouble.   Something is making the turbo not spool up 
on a warm engine.  It takes a few attempts to get proper fuel flow to the 
engine, or make power.

clay 

1974 450sl -  Frosch - Two tone green
1986 SDL - Polei
1982 300 SD - Allen

retired models-
2002 s430 - Victor, a Stately & well tailored crap
1976 300D - Blei Vanst - it looks silvery
1972 220D - Gump - She was green, simple and ran
1995 E300D - Gave her life to save me against a Dame in a SUV
POS 1987 SDL - Beware Nigerian Scammers








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