Re: [MBZ] W126 Rear Window Regulator

[clay via Mercedes]

I have not been able to get my massive paws up in the contortions required to 
access the mechanism.  What I could handle has been given a good gooping and 
spray of PB (the kroil died) has been copious.

clay

> On Mar 28, 2017, at 1:35 AM, archer75--- via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> Have you lubricated all moving parts as well as the motor bearings if 
> accessible? Have you tried Deoxit and WD40 and Rusteater (from Autozone) and 
> all the lesser known lubricants that work for other DIYers?
> Have you wiggled and pushed on all the mechanical stuff after each lubricant?
> Have you lubricated the the tracks with silicone grease very, very, lightly?
> --
>> I have given up the fight on trying to get the regulator out of the 
>> passenger side of Allen.  The motor does not spin up, so the window is not 
>> lowering, which would make it all simple to remove.  I think the motor 
>> froze, as when power is applied, there is a click or grunt but no motion.
>> 
>> clay
>> 
>> 
>>> On Mar 27, 2017, at 7:31 PM, Peter Frederick via Mercedes 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> They are also prone to having the clip that holds the scissor into the 
>>> window bottom rail break.  Usually causes the window to drop, but they can 
>>> get stuck fully up.  Rack moves but is no longer attached to the window.
>>> 
>>> Obvious when you remove the door panel.
>>> 
>>> Peter
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>> 
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Re: [MBZ] W126 Rear Window Regulator -- Clay's issue

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

I don't remember for sure on a 126.  It may have room, and maybe it is 
124 where there is not enough room.  I know some times I have to use a 
box wrench.  It has been quite a few years since I had one go bad.  For 
a while I was working on 126 windows a lot.



Floyd Thursby via Mercedes 
March 28, 2017 at 9:53 AM
Maybe, I forget exactly, it has been awhile since I took one out but I 
vaguely recall being able to get a socket in there.  If not a 
ratcheting bone wrench will work OK.


--FT




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Re: [MBZ] W126 Rear Window Regulator -- Clay's issue

[Floyd Thursby via Mercedes]

Maybe, I forget exactly, it has been awhile since I took one out but I 
vaguely recall being able to get a socket in there.  If not a ratcheting 
bone wrench will work OK.


--FT


On 3/28/17 10:47 AM, Curley McLain via Mercedes wrote:
10 mm but probably not a socket. At least not for all.   Not enough 
space. box wrench.  Get the toughest one out first.  Leave the easiest 
one for last.  that way you can turn out the toughest by hand once it 
is loose.



Floyd Thursby via Mercedes 
March 28, 2017 at 9:39 AM
Exactly, you can feel the screws you have to remove but it helps to 
have one to refer to as it is kinda tight in there but not that hard 
to get them off.  Then the motor can pop out and you should be able 
to move the regulator/window by hand.  10mm socket?


--FT



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--
--FT
Winston Churchill:
“Never give in--never, never, never, never, in nothing great or small, large or 
petty,
never give in except to convictions of honor and good sense.
Never yield to force; never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the 
enemy.”


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Re: [MBZ] W126 Rear Window Regulator -- Clay's issue

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

10 mm but probably not a socket. At least not for all.   Not enough 
space. box wrench.  Get the toughest one out first.  Leave the easiest 
one for last.  that way you can turn out the toughest by hand once it is 
loose.



Floyd Thursby via Mercedes 
March 28, 2017 at 9:39 AM
Exactly, you can feel the screws you have to remove but it helps to 
have one to refer to as it is kinda tight in there but not that hard 
to get them off.  Then the motor can pop out and you should be able to 
move the regulator/window by hand.  10mm socket?


--FT



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Re: [MBZ] W126 Rear Window Regulator -- Clay's issue

[Floyd Thursby via Mercedes]

Exactly, you can feel the screws you have to remove but it helps to have 
one to refer to as it is kinda tight in there but not that hard to get 
them off.  Then the motor can pop out and you should be able to move the 
regulator/window by hand.  10mm socket?


--FT


On 3/28/17 8:02 AM, Curley McLain via Mercedes wrote:
in that case, you have to unbolt the motor from the regulator. (mostly 
blind, by feel)  a light and mirror can help you visualize what you 
are up against, but are not much good for the actual bolt removal.



clay via Mercedes 
March 28, 2017 at 12:47 AM
I have given up the fight on trying to get the regulator out of the 
passenger side of Allen. The motor does not spin up, so the window is 
not lowering, which would make it all simple to remove. I think the 
motor froze, as when power is applied, there is a click or grunt but 
no motion.


clay



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--
--FT
Winston Churchill:
“Never give in--never, never, never, never, in nothing great or small, large or 
petty,
never give in except to convictions of honor and good sense.
Never yield to force; never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the 
enemy.”


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Re: [MBZ] W126 Rear Window Regulator

[Floyd Thursby via Mercedes]

Coupla things -- stripped gears, you will see.  Those little plastic 
sliders have broken, they are "riveted" in.  The driven gear arm has 
popped a rivet (I had this on the TD at one time and repaired with like 
a 5mm nut/bolt ground down a bit to fit in the area where the rivet was, 
to get clearance).  I'm guessing #2 or #3.


--FT


On 3/28/17 8:22 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote:

I meant they were different in the way they were constructed.  I understand the 
stripped rack teeth thing.  Not so much like the “scissor” arrangement like the 
ones used on the fronts.

I’m going to tear into the door today and see what I find.  The window is all 
the way up and firmly in position, so I’m not sure if someone jammed something 
in there to hold it or if the teeth might be chewed off at the end of the 
travel.  I’ll try moving the window by hand, as that will probably be the 
giveaway.

-D

  

On Mar 27, 2017, at 9:58 PM, Curley McLain via Mercedes  
wrote:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/112258820852?lpid=82=ps_noapp=true

See photos.  motor, stamped rack gear.  Left rear.


Dan--- via Mercedes 
March 27, 2017 at 8:33 PM
Rear window, not front. Rears are different.

-D


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--
--FT
Winston Churchill:
“Never give in--never, never, never, never, in nothing great or small, large or 
petty,
never give in except to convictions of honor and good sense.
Never yield to force; never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the 
enemy.”


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Re: [MBZ] W126 Rear Window Regulator

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

Nahh, I know who he is.  Retired Delta pilot who lives in Ft. Myers.  Doesn’t 
like to do major tinker stuff, would rather pay someone to do it.  Asked if I 
would be willing as a part of the deal, as he hasn’t found a local indie for 
something like this yet.

Wants the car for a toy.  Has a brand new Audi or something like it for a daily 
driver.

-D


> On Mar 28, 2017, at 9:59 AM, Andrew Strasfogel  wrote:
> 
> A buyer like that is sure to try and bargain with you again after you make 
> the repairs.
> 
> On Tue, Mar 28, 2017 at 9:00 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
> > wrote:
> No, I just meant they were physically different.  I don’t think I ever had to 
> change a rear regulator, which is why I remarked about it.  I figured they 
> were more or less the same front and back.  I’ve done the later ones with the 
> cable.  Those are weird.
> 
> I’m working from home today, so I’ll probably take a stab at pulling the door 
> panel off during lunch to see what’s up.
> 
> I’ve got a buyer for the 300SEL who wants to pay me to address some of the 
> little stuff before they take delivery.  The window is one of the issues as 
> is the fuel door vacuum actuator.  They also asked if I would put a new set 
> of injectors in it, too.
> 
> -D
> 
> 
> > On Mar 28, 2017, at 8:51 AM, Curley McLain via Mercedes 
> > > wrote:
> >
> > Oh, sorry! I thought you meant the operation was different.  Yes, front and 
> > rear are always different, at least since the 60s.  The 124 and newer with 
> > the cable rear are way different.
> >
> > On the 123, 126 and earlier, the MBs have curved rack and pinion front and 
> > rear, and the removal/problems are similar.  It sounds like Clay has a dead 
> > motor.  It seems you have a good motor and a regulator some way 
> > disconnected from the regulator or regulator disconnected from the glass.  
> > Usually you can hear the regulator going up and down if the slide ifs 
> > broken or disconnected.
> >
> > The easiest rear fix I had was on the rusty SDL.  The rivet that holds the 
> > slide had popped out.  The air hammer and a bfh solved that pretty quick.
> >
> 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] W126 Rear Window Regulator

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

A buyer like that is sure to try and bargain with you again after you make
the repairs.

On Tue, Mar 28, 2017 at 9:00 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> No, I just meant they were physically different.  I don’t think I ever had
> to change a rear regulator, which is why I remarked about it.  I figured
> they were more or less the same front and back.  I’ve done the later ones
> with the cable.  Those are weird.
>
> I’m working from home today, so I’ll probably take a stab at pulling the
> door panel off during lunch to see what’s up.
>
> I’ve got a buyer for the 300SEL who wants to pay me to address some of the
> little stuff before they take delivery.  The window is one of the issues as
> is the fuel door vacuum actuator.  They also asked if I would put a new set
> of injectors in it, too.
>
> -D
>
>
> > On Mar 28, 2017, at 8:51 AM, Curley McLain via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> > Oh, sorry! I thought you meant the operation was different.  Yes, front
> and rear are always different, at least since the 60s.  The 124 and newer
> with the cable rear are way different.
> >
> > On the 123, 126 and earlier, the MBs have curved rack and pinion front
> and rear, and the removal/problems are similar.  It sounds like Clay has a
> dead motor.  It seems you have a good motor and a regulator some way
> disconnected from the regulator or regulator disconnected from the glass.
> Usually you can hear the regulator going up and down if the slide ifs
> broken or disconnected.
> >
> > The easiest rear fix I had was on the rusty SDL.  The rivet that holds
> the slide had popped out.  The air hammer and a bfh solved that pretty
> quick.
> >
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] W126 Rear Window Regulator

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

No, I just meant they were physically different.  I don’t think I ever had to 
change a rear regulator, which is why I remarked about it.  I figured they were 
more or less the same front and back.  I’ve done the later ones with the cable. 
 Those are weird.

I’m working from home today, so I’ll probably take a stab at pulling the door 
panel off during lunch to see what’s up.

I’ve got a buyer for the 300SEL who wants to pay me to address some of the 
little stuff before they take delivery.  The window is one of the issues as is 
the fuel door vacuum actuator.  They also asked if I would put a new set of 
injectors in it, too.

-D


> On Mar 28, 2017, at 8:51 AM, Curley McLain via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Oh, sorry! I thought you meant the operation was different.  Yes, front and 
> rear are always different, at least since the 60s.  The 124 and newer with 
> the cable rear are way different.
> 
> On the 123, 126 and earlier, the MBs have curved rack and pinion front and 
> rear, and the removal/problems are similar.  It sounds like Clay has a dead 
> motor.  It seems you have a good motor and a regulator some way disconnected 
> from the regulator or regulator disconnected from the glass.  Usually you can 
> hear the regulator going up and down if the slide ifs broken or disconnected.
> 
> The easiest rear fix I had was on the rusty SDL.  The rivet that holds the 
> slide had popped out.  The air hammer and a bfh solved that pretty quick.
> 


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Re: [MBZ] W126 Rear Window Regulator

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

Oh, sorry! I thought you meant the operation was different.  Yes, front 
and rear are always different, at least since the 60s.  The 124 and 
newer with the cable rear are way different.


On the 123, 126 and earlier, the MBs have curved rack and pinion front 
and rear, and the removal/problems are similar.  It sounds like Clay has 
a dead motor.  It seems you have a good motor and a regulator some way 
disconnected from the regulator or regulator disconnected from the 
glass.  Usually you can hear the regulator going up and down if the 
slide ifs broken or disconnected.


The easiest rear fix I had was on the rusty SDL.  The rivet that holds 
the slide had popped out.  The air hammer and a bfh solved that pretty 
quick.



Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
March 28, 2017 at 7:22 AM
I meant they were different in the way they were constructed. I 
understand the stripped rack teeth thing. Not so much like the 
“scissor” arrangement like the ones used on the fronts.


I’m going to tear into the door today and see what I find. The window 
is all the way up and firmly in position, so I’m not sure if someone 
jammed something in there to hold it or if the teeth might be chewed 
off at the end of the travel. I’ll try moving the window by hand, as 
that will probably be the giveaway.


-D




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Curley McLain 
March 27, 2017 at 8:58 PM
http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/112258820852?lpid=82=ps_noapp=true

See photos.  motor, stamped rack gear.  Left rear.


Dan--- via Mercedes 
March 27, 2017 at 8:33 PM
Rear window, not front. Rears are different.

-D

Sent from my iPad



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Curley McLain 
March 27, 2017 at 7:56 PM
Late front ones are stamped steel, and the teeth wear/break off.  
Car-part.com for a good used regulator and motor.


I put cast gear regulator in the driver door of one SDL.  It was from 
a gen I 126.  You have to swap the motor and regulator together.  
different sprockets on the motor.


My guess is you have a stamped one, and it has the teeth gone.

I've only had slide/rivet problems on the rear.

with the door open, try pushing down the glass while your assistant 
switches the window down (or up, in  case some monkey reversed the 
wires.)  If the window works except clear up, then it is the gear rack.



Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
March 27, 2017 at 7:26 PM
Looking into the last of the issues on the 300SEL, I knew the PO said 
one of the back windows didn’t work, but that was a minor thing I 
haven’t paid any attention to.


I checked it out tonight and found the left rear window doesn’t work. 
I can hear the motor in both directions, but no movement of the glass. 
I looked a the regulators on some of the parts sites and the rear 
window regulators look very different than the ones I’ve been used to 
seeing. Is there something about these that is prone to failure, or 
that I should expect to find when I crack open the door panel? Sliding 
jaw issues? Mechanical problems?


They look a lot simpler than the regulators on the front doors.

-D
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Re: [MBZ] W126 Rear Window Regulator

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

I meant they were different in the way they were constructed.  I understand the 
stripped rack teeth thing.  Not so much like the “scissor” arrangement like the 
ones used on the fronts.

I’m going to tear into the door today and see what I find.  The window is all 
the way up and firmly in position, so I’m not sure if someone jammed something 
in there to hold it or if the teeth might be chewed off at the end of the 
travel.  I’ll try moving the window by hand, as that will probably be the 
giveaway.

-D

 
> On Mar 27, 2017, at 9:58 PM, Curley McLain via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/112258820852?lpid=82=ps_noapp=true
> 
> See photos.  motor, stamped rack gear.  Left rear.
> 
>> Dan--- via Mercedes 
>> March 27, 2017 at 8:33 PM
>> Rear window, not front. Rears are different.
>> 
>> -D
>> 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] W126 Rear Window Regulator

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

in that case, you have to unbolt the motor from the regulator.  (mostly 
blind, by feel)  a light and mirror can help you visualize what you are 
up against, but are not much good for the actual bolt removal.



clay via Mercedes 
March 28, 2017 at 12:47 AM
I have given up the fight on trying to get the regulator out of the 
passenger side of Allen. The motor does not spin up, so the window is 
not lowering, which would make it all simple to remove. I think the 
motor froze, as when power is applied, there is a click or grunt but 
no motion.


clay



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Re: [MBZ] W126 Rear Window Regulator

[archer75--- via Mercedes]

Have you lubricated all moving parts as well as the motor bearings if 
accessible? Have you tried Deoxit and WD40 and Rusteater (from Autozone) and 
all the lesser known lubricants that work for other DIYers?
Have you wiggled and pushed on all the mechanical stuff after each lubricant?
Have you lubricated the the tracks with silicone grease very, very, lightly?
--
> I have given up the fight on trying to get the regulator out of the passenger 
> side of Allen.  The motor does not spin up, so the window is not lowering, 
> which would make it all simple to remove.  I think the motor froze, as when 
> power is applied, there is a click or grunt but no motion.
> 
> clay
> 
> 
> > On Mar 27, 2017, at 7:31 PM, Peter Frederick via Mercedes 
> >  wrote:
> > 
> > They are also prone to having the clip that holds the scissor into the 
> > window bottom rail break.  Usually causes the window to drop, but they can 
> > get stuck fully up.  Rack moves but is no longer attached to the window.
> > 
> > Obvious when you remove the door panel.
> > 
> > Peter
> > ___
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Re: [MBZ] W126 Rear Window Regulator

[clay via Mercedes]

I have given up the fight on trying to get the regulator out of the passenger 
side of Allen.  The motor does not spin up, so the window is not lowering, 
which would make it all simple to remove.  I think the motor froze, as when 
power is applied, there is a click or grunt but no motion.

clay


> On Mar 27, 2017, at 7:31 PM, Peter Frederick via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> They are also prone to having the clip that holds the scissor into the window 
> bottom rail break.  Usually causes the window to drop, but they can get stuck 
> fully up.  Rack moves but is no longer attached to the window.
> 
> Obvious when you remove the door panel.
> 
> Peter
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Re: [MBZ] W126 Rear Window Regulator

[Peter Frederick via Mercedes]

They are also prone to having the clip that holds the scissor into the window 
bottom rail break.  Usually causes the window to drop, but they can get stuck 
fully up.  Rack moves but is no longer attached to the window.

Obvious when you remove the door panel.

Peter
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Re: [MBZ] W126 Rear Window Regulator

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/112258820852?lpid=82=ps_noapp=true

See photos.  motor, stamped rack gear.  Left rear.


Dan--- via Mercedes 
March 27, 2017 at 8:33 PM
Rear window, not front. Rears are different.

-D



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Re: [MBZ] W126 Rear Window Regulator

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

it stiil has a rack gear and a motor.  late ones are stamped.  what i 
said applies, as long as you are still talking about a 126.



Dan--- via Mercedes 
March 27, 2017 at 8:33 PM
Rear window, not front. Rears are different.

-D

Sent from my iPad




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Re: [MBZ] W126 Rear Window Regulator

[Dan--- via Mercedes]

Rear window, not front. Rears are different.

-D

Sent from my iPad

> On Mar 27, 2017, at 8:56 PM, Curley McLain via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Late front ones are stamped steel, and the teeth wear/break off.  
> Car-part.com for a good used regulator and motor.
> 
> I put cast gear regulator in the driver door of one SDL.  It was from a gen I 
> 126.  You have to swap the motor and regulator together.  different sprockets 
> on the motor.
> 
> My guess is you have a stamped one, and it has the teeth gone.
> 
> I've only had slide/rivet problems on the rear.
> 
> with the door open, try pushing down the glass while your assistant switches 
> the window down (or up, in  case some monkey reversed the wires.)  If the 
> window works except clear up, then it is the gear rack.
> 
>> Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
>> March 27, 2017 at 7:26 PM
>> Looking into the last of the issues on the 300SEL, I knew the PO said one of 
>> the back windows didn’t work, but that was a minor thing I haven’t paid any 
>> attention to.
>> 
>> I checked it out tonight and found the left rear window doesn’t work. I can 
>> hear the motor in both directions, but no movement of the glass. I looked a 
>> the regulators on some of the parts sites and the rear window regulators 
>> look very different than the ones I’ve been used to seeing. Is there 
>> something about these that is prone to failure, or that I should expect to 
>> find when I crack open the door panel? Sliding jaw issues? Mechanical 
>> problems?
>> 
>> They look a lot simpler than the regulators on the front doors.
>> 
>> -D
> 
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Re: [MBZ] W126 Rear Window Regulator

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

Late front ones are stamped steel, and the teeth wear/break off.  
Car-part.com for a good used regulator and motor.


I put cast gear regulator in the driver door of one SDL.  It was from a 
gen I 126.  You have to swap the motor and regulator together.  
different sprockets on the motor.


My guess is you have a stamped one, and it has the teeth gone.

I've only had slide/rivet problems on the rear.

with the door open, try pushing down the glass while your assistant 
switches the window down (or up, in  case some monkey reversed the 
wires.)  If the window works except clear up, then it is the gear rack.



Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
March 27, 2017 at 7:26 PM
Looking into the last of the issues on the 300SEL, I knew the PO said 
one of the back windows didn’t work, but that was a minor thing I 
haven’t paid any attention to.


I checked it out tonight and found the left rear window doesn’t work. 
I can hear the motor in both directions, but no movement of the glass. 
I looked a the regulators on some of the parts sites and the rear 
window regulators look very different than the ones I’ve been used to 
seeing. Is there something about these that is prone to failure, or 
that I should expect to find when I crack open the door panel? Sliding 
jaw issues? Mechanical problems?


They look a lot simpler than the regulators on the front doors.

-D


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[MBZ] W126 Rear Window Regulator

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

Looking into the last of the issues on the 300SEL, I knew the PO said one of 
the back windows didn’t work, but that was a minor thing I haven’t paid any 
attention to.

I checked it out tonight and found the left rear window doesn’t work.  I can 
hear the motor in both directions, but no movement of the glass.  I looked a 
the regulators on some of the parts sites and the rear window regulators look 
very different than the ones I’ve been used to seeing.  Is there something 
about these that is prone to failure, or that I should expect to find when I 
crack open the door panel?  Sliding jaw issues?  Mechanical problems?

They look a lot simpler than the regulators on the front doors.

-D
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Re: [MBZ] W126 rear Window

[John W. Reames III]

The trim is pulled out after the window and rubber are out of the car. It 
bends VERY easily and looks like crap when it does. 

IIRC I did something cheap and used a couple of bits of high density 
foam (you could also make little rolls of electrical tape) and use it 
to hold the wire in the moulding (in the water channel). 

On my 210 I just stashed the antenna on top of a steel part underneath the 
package shelf. I get decent reception and it is pretty stealth.
-j.

[MBZ] W126 rear Window

[Peter T . Arnold]

I'd like to remove the rear window's trim.  this to hide my satellite
wire (very small Diameter) under it.
After I slide the small center pieces over, does it just pry off?  Tap
back on with a rubber mallet?



--

Regards,

Peter T. Arnold

1987 300SDL  240KMI
1995 F-250 PowerChoke  190Kmi
1954 Metropolitan Convertible, Hanger Queen
Wife has a Cruizer, 80 Kmi, as reliable as an Ice Box, the car that
is!

Re: [MBZ] W126 rear Window

[Jim Cathey]

I'd like to remove the rear window's trim.  this to hide my satellite
wire (very small Diameter) under it.
After I slide the small center pieces over, does it just pry off?  Tap
back on with a rubber mallet?


I'm not sure it goes back in once removed.  Some windows have
to have the trim put in the rubber before the whole thing is
snaked into place.

Why not peel the lip of the rubber back where it meets the body
and tuck the wire into there?

-- Jim

Re: [MBZ] W126 rear Window

[Peter T . Arnold]

On Thu, 9 Mar 2006 14:31:18 -0800, you wrote:

 I'd like to remove the rear window's trim.  this to hide my satellite
 wire (very small Diameter) under it.
 After I slide the small center pieces over, does it just pry off?  Tap
 back on with a rubber mallet?

I'm not sure it goes back in once removed.  Some windows have
to have the trim put in the rubber before the whole thing is
snaked into place.

Why not peel the lip of the rubber back where it meets the body
and tuck the wire into there?

I thought it would be less strain on the wire to put it under the
molding.  Your way would probably work too.

Pete

Re: [MBZ] W126 rear Window

[David Brodbeck]

Peter T. Arnold wrote:

Why not peel the lip of the rubber back where it meets the body
and tuck the wire into there?



I thought it would be less strain on the wire to put it under the
molding.  Your way would probably work too.
  
It's unlikely to hurt it to tuck it under the lip.  Just don't crimp it 
or kink it and you'll be fine.