Re: [MBZ] Yesterday was...
And I see a lot of folks on them that are driving them like total morons waiting to get killed Sent from my iPhone > On Jun 9, 2021, at 7:00 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes > wrote: > > That’s why I stopped riding a motorcycle. Too many inattentive people who > would run you off the road and not even realize it because they’re too busy > looking at their $#@& cell phones. > > -D > >> On Jun 9, 2021, at 7:54 PM, Clay via Mercedes wrote: >> >> Reason I stopped riding. Too many blind dames in rolling coffins pulling >> stupid moves that failed to kill me. Being run over at the grocery store >> parking lot sealed the deal. I were stopped and she just plowed in, T bone >> style. >> >> >> Clay >> >> >> inter urinas et faeces nascimur >> On Jun 9, 2021, at 3:50 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes wrote: >>> >>> I always thought about that when I was motorcycling, right of way doesn't >>> count for much if you're dead. >>> The closest call I've ever had on 2 wheels was when my then neighbor turned >>> right in front of me. No blinker, not so much as a "how do you do." I >>> slapped the rear of the car HARD with my hand as I passed it by inches. The >>> guy stopped and jumped out "What did you do that for?" he hadn't seen me, >>> had no idea I was there... >>> -Curt >> >> ___ >> http://www.okiebenz.com >> >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ >> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com >> > > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Yesterday was...
A few weeks ago, I was following a Porch Boxster. Older grey haired couple, top down. Speed limit was 40, I was probably going about 45 and coming up on them from behind. The light turned yellow, I stepped on the gas, he stepped on his brakes. He stopped midway through the intersection, blocking the cross traffic. I transitioned to braking as fast as I could, had to hit the shoulder to avoid rear ending the Boxster. Anti-Lock brake system got a good work out. Ended up almost next to him. I still don't understand why he decided to try to stop for the yellow light. He decided to back up to let cross traffic flow, almost backed into me. Max Dillon Charleston SC ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Yesterday was...
That’s why I stopped riding a motorcycle. Too many inattentive people who would run you off the road and not even realize it because they’re too busy looking at their $#@& cell phones. -D > On Jun 9, 2021, at 7:54 PM, Clay via Mercedes wrote: > > Reason I stopped riding. Too many blind dames in rolling coffins pulling > stupid moves that failed to kill me. Being run over at the grocery store > parking lot sealed the deal. I were stopped and she just plowed in, T bone > style. > > > Clay > > > inter urinas et faeces nascimur > >> On Jun 9, 2021, at 3:50 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes >> wrote: >> >> I always thought about that when I was motorcycling, right of way doesn't >> count for much if you're dead. >> The closest call I've ever had on 2 wheels was when my then neighbor turned >> right in front of me. No blinker, not so much as a "how do you do." I >> slapped the rear of the car HARD with my hand as I passed it by inches. The >> guy stopped and jumped out "What did you do that for?" he hadn't seen me, >> had no idea I was there... >> -Curt > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Yesterday was...
Reason I stopped riding. Too many blind dames in rolling coffins pulling stupid moves that failed to kill me. Being run over at the grocery store parking lot sealed the deal. I were stopped and she just plowed in, T bone style. Clay inter urinas et faeces nascimur > On Jun 9, 2021, at 3:50 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes > wrote: > > I always thought about that when I was motorcycling, right of way doesn't > count for much if you're dead. > The closest call I've ever had on 2 wheels was when my then neighbor turned > right in front of me. No blinker, not so much as a "how do you do." I slapped > the rear of the car HARD with my hand as I passed it by inches. The guy > stopped and jumped out "What did you do that for?" he hadn't seen me, had no > idea I was there... > -Curt ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Yesterday was...
I always thought about that when I was motorcycling, right of way doesn't count for much if you're dead. The closest call I've ever had on 2 wheels was when my then neighbor turned right in front of me. No blinker, not so much as a "how do you do." I slapped the rear of the car HARD with my hand as I passed it by inches. The guy stopped and jumped out "What did you do that for?" he hadn't seen me, had no idea I was there... -Curt On Wednesday, June 9, 2021, 7:29:28 PM EDT, Frederick Moir via Mercedes wrote: Alles. When I was 19 and a new driver, my mum gave me this:- Here lays the body of Theodore Hay He died maintaining his right-of-way He was right, quite right as he sped along But he's just as dead as if he were wrong. Lesson learned. On Wed, Jun 9, 2021 at 7:14 PM Dan Penoff via Mercedes < mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > This is a problem we’ve had in my neighborhood for some years. We have > excellent sidewalks, but the bike riders who choose to ride in the street, > often the “Tour de France” wanna-bes, ride in the middle of the road, won’t > yield, and rarely, if ever, signal or observe signs, like stop signs. > > I was driving my 220SEb one day and discovered the fuel pump was starting > to crap out. I was nursing the car home, hoping to make it all the way and > not being terribly attentive (my fault.) A local rider went through a > three-way intersection in front of me without stopping, and I nearly hit > him. He proceeded to yell at me and express his displeasure non-verbally. > Pulled up along side him and asked if he would like to get a ticket for > running a stop sign, to which he said, “I don’t have to stop if I don’t > want to.” > > It’s this mentality that pits people against idiots like this. > > There was a section of a major road in our neighborhood that was three > lanes wide, marked as a two lane road with very wide lanes. Local bike > advocates bitched constantly to the local government about how dangerous it > was because of speeding cars along this stretch. They actually got the > County to put in a center median to close down the road to two regular > width lanes, which no longer accommodate bikers. Along with this they went > around the whole neighborhood and put down these green reflective “bike > lane” markers on the road, despite the roads all being standard two lane > widths. not sure what that’s supposed to accomplish. > > To put a cherry on top of these improvements, a couple of months after the > center median was put in a speeding car wrecked along this stretch of road, > running into a tree and killing the driver. They also hit a bicyclist when > they wrecked, having to airlift them to the local trauma center for their > injuries. > > So much for that bright idea, eh? > > As a former cross country cyclist when I lived in WI, like trips of 20-50 > miles a day, I have nothing but respect for other users of the road and did > my best to comply with the rules and regulations. That being said, I truly > believe there are idiots out there driving cars who purposely brush riders > back or attempt to sideswipe them on purpose. > > -D > > > > > On Jun 9, 2021, at 5:46 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes < > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > > > > I was glad to see that the law does mention some rider responsibilities > too. Around where my folks live there were a few riding groups that also > wanted to go out and see the sights, its the coast of Maine, seems nice > right? Well these folks thought they could just get out of work a little > early and go for a ride. So every Friday night around 4:30pm 20 or so > riders would go 5 abreast all around town, during rush hour. They wouldn't > yield for anybody and you had to creep along behind them until you parted > ways with them. They were totally obnoxious. If you were sitting at a stop > sign they would swarm around you and then take off ahead of you, often > cutting off traffic and nearly causing accidents. > > This went on for about a month until enough people called the police > that the group was met by a group of officers whole explained that they > could ride politely or not ride at all. They tried to keep up their antics > and were quickly shut down, IIRC bikes were impounded, charges were filed. > It got quite messy for awhile... > > -Curt > > > > > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > -- Fred Moir Lynn MA Diesel preferred ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or
Re: [MBZ] Yesterday was...
Alles. When I was 19 and a new driver, my mum gave me this:- Here lays the body of Theodore Hay He died maintaining his right-of-way He was right, quite right as he sped along But he's just as dead as if he were wrong. Lesson learned. On Wed, Jun 9, 2021 at 7:14 PM Dan Penoff via Mercedes < mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > This is a problem we’ve had in my neighborhood for some years. We have > excellent sidewalks, but the bike riders who choose to ride in the street, > often the “Tour de France” wanna-bes, ride in the middle of the road, won’t > yield, and rarely, if ever, signal or observe signs, like stop signs. > > I was driving my 220SEb one day and discovered the fuel pump was starting > to crap out. I was nursing the car home, hoping to make it all the way and > not being terribly attentive (my fault.) A local rider went through a > three-way intersection in front of me without stopping, and I nearly hit > him. He proceeded to yell at me and express his displeasure non-verbally. > Pulled up along side him and asked if he would like to get a ticket for > running a stop sign, to which he said, “I don’t have to stop if I don’t > want to.” > > It’s this mentality that pits people against idiots like this. > > There was a section of a major road in our neighborhood that was three > lanes wide, marked as a two lane road with very wide lanes. Local bike > advocates bitched constantly to the local government about how dangerous it > was because of speeding cars along this stretch. They actually got the > County to put in a center median to close down the road to two regular > width lanes, which no longer accommodate bikers. Along with this they went > around the whole neighborhood and put down these green reflective “bike > lane” markers on the road, despite the roads all being standard two lane > widths. not sure what that’s supposed to accomplish. > > To put a cherry on top of these improvements, a couple of months after the > center median was put in a speeding car wrecked along this stretch of road, > running into a tree and killing the driver. They also hit a bicyclist when > they wrecked, having to airlift them to the local trauma center for their > injuries. > > So much for that bright idea, eh? > > As a former cross country cyclist when I lived in WI, like trips of 20-50 > miles a day, I have nothing but respect for other users of the road and did > my best to comply with the rules and regulations. That being said, I truly > believe there are idiots out there driving cars who purposely brush riders > back or attempt to sideswipe them on purpose. > > -D > > > > > On Jun 9, 2021, at 5:46 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes < > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > > > > I was glad to see that the law does mention some rider responsibilities > too. Around where my folks live there were a few riding groups that also > wanted to go out and see the sights, its the coast of Maine, seems nice > right? Well these folks thought they could just get out of work a little > early and go for a ride. So every Friday night around 4:30pm 20 or so > riders would go 5 abreast all around town, during rush hour. They wouldn't > yield for anybody and you had to creep along behind them until you parted > ways with them. They were totally obnoxious. If you were sitting at a stop > sign they would swarm around you and then take off ahead of you, often > cutting off traffic and nearly causing accidents. > > This went on for about a month until enough people called the police > that the group was met by a group of officers whole explained that they > could ride politely or not ride at all. They tried to keep up their antics > and were quickly shut down, IIRC bikes were impounded, charges were filed. > It got quite messy for awhile... > > -Curt > > > > > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > -- Fred Moir Lynn MA Diesel preferred ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Yesterday was...
This is a problem we’ve had in my neighborhood for some years. We have excellent sidewalks, but the bike riders who choose to ride in the street, often the “Tour de France” wanna-bes, ride in the middle of the road, won’t yield, and rarely, if ever, signal or observe signs, like stop signs. I was driving my 220SEb one day and discovered the fuel pump was starting to crap out. I was nursing the car home, hoping to make it all the way and not being terribly attentive (my fault.) A local rider went through a three-way intersection in front of me without stopping, and I nearly hit him. He proceeded to yell at me and express his displeasure non-verbally. Pulled up along side him and asked if he would like to get a ticket for running a stop sign, to which he said, “I don’t have to stop if I don’t want to.” It’s this mentality that pits people against idiots like this. There was a section of a major road in our neighborhood that was three lanes wide, marked as a two lane road with very wide lanes. Local bike advocates bitched constantly to the local government about how dangerous it was because of speeding cars along this stretch. They actually got the County to put in a center median to close down the road to two regular width lanes, which no longer accommodate bikers. Along with this they went around the whole neighborhood and put down these green reflective “bike lane” markers on the road, despite the roads all being standard two lane widths. not sure what that’s supposed to accomplish. To put a cherry on top of these improvements, a couple of months after the center median was put in a speeding car wrecked along this stretch of road, running into a tree and killing the driver. They also hit a bicyclist when they wrecked, having to airlift them to the local trauma center for their injuries. So much for that bright idea, eh? As a former cross country cyclist when I lived in WI, like trips of 20-50 miles a day, I have nothing but respect for other users of the road and did my best to comply with the rules and regulations. That being said, I truly believe there are idiots out there driving cars who purposely brush riders back or attempt to sideswipe them on purpose. -D > On Jun 9, 2021, at 5:46 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes > wrote: > > I was glad to see that the law does mention some rider responsibilities too. > Around where my folks live there were a few riding groups that also wanted to > go out and see the sights, its the coast of Maine, seems nice right? Well > these folks thought they could just get out of work a little early and go for > a ride. So every Friday night around 4:30pm 20 or so riders would go 5 > abreast all around town, during rush hour. They wouldn't yield for anybody > and you had to creep along behind them until you parted ways with them. They > were totally obnoxious. If you were sitting at a stop sign they would swarm > around you and then take off ahead of you, often cutting off traffic and > nearly causing accidents. > This went on for about a month until enough people called the police that the > group was met by a group of officers whole explained that they could ride > politely or not ride at all. They tried to keep up their antics and were > quickly shut down, IIRC bikes were impounded, charges were filed. It got > quite messy for awhile... > -Curt > > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Yesterday was...
Around here fancy bikers NEVER stop at stop signs. Really p*sse*s me off, just this side of road r*ge. On Wed, Jun 9, 2021 at 6:45 PM Allan Streib via Mercedes < mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > Floyd Thursby via Mercedes writes: > > > the car is always going to win > > This is why I've stopped cycling. I think the difference in speeds and > mass between motor vehicles and bicycles makes it fundamentally unsafe > for them to share the same roads. Awareness and courtesy (on both sides) > helps, but doesn't really change that. > > Allan > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Yesterday was...
Floyd Thursby via Mercedes writes: > the car is always going to win This is why I've stopped cycling. I think the difference in speeds and mass between motor vehicles and bicycles makes it fundamentally unsafe for them to share the same roads. Awareness and courtesy (on both sides) helps, but doesn't really change that. Allan ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Yesterday was...
people like this who fail to follow common courtesy (and the law) are what cause problems for everyone. I've ridden with large groups too, we always tried to be courteous and follow common-sense rules (and within the law, which some drivers don't like), and if anyone acted otherwise they were asked to get with the plan or leave the group. A lot of it comes from ignorance of how things work, but there are always a few who think they don't have to follow any rules. I have actually called out some cyclistas who were acting fools like that, usually it might have had some temporary effect. One thing that most anyone with any experience realizes is 1) the car is always going to win and 2) it costs nothing to demonstrate some courtesy. But on the flip side a lot of drivers have some completely irrational hatred of anyone on a bike and will do really stupid dangerous stuff to show that, sometimes with fatal results. I don't understand it. That's why I carry now when I ride... As a manager once told me, you can be right, and you can be dead right. --FT On 6/9/21 5:46 PM, Curt Raymond wrote: I was glad to see that the law does mention some rider responsibilities too. Around where my folks live there were a few riding groups that also wanted to go out and see the sights, its the coast of Maine, seems nice right? Well these folks thought they could just get out of work a little early and go for a ride. So every Friday night around 4:30pm 20 or so riders would go 5 abreast all around town, during rush hour. They wouldn't yield for anybody and you had to creep along behind them until you parted ways with them. They were totally obnoxious. If you were sitting at a stop sign they would swarm around you and then take off ahead of you, often cutting off traffic and nearly causing accidents. This went on for about a month until enough people called the police that the group was met by a group of officers whole explained that they could ride politely or not ride at all. They tried to keep up their antics and were quickly shut down, IIRC bikes were impounded, charges were filed. It got quite messy for awhile... -Curt On Wednesday, June 9, 2021, 5:36:39 PM EDT, Floyd Thursby via Mercedes wrote: yeah but for some reason they need to be codified to keep the idiots somewhat in line. A coupla years ago there was a group doing these tour rides around here, maybe a dozen people would sign up for a week or two and they would have vans to take the riders to different areas around to ride maybe 30 or 40 miles a day, just see the sights, have a picnic somewhere nice. I saw a group of them at one point and chatted with them, had seen the vans carrying the people and the bikes a few times. Some woman on the next island over took exception to being inconvenienced (meaning she had to wait maybe 20sec to pass the group, if that, on roads that are seldom busy, which is why they were riding out there) as she was towing a horse trailer. She got on FB and started ranting about how she was going to "take out" the whole group next time they got in her way, her big truck and 7000lb horse trailer would make short work of them. She was proud of that. I pointed out that this would be premeditated murder if she did so, or even if she was ever involved in an incident with a cyclist it would show premeditation to do harm, and that would be really Not Good for her prognosis at the hands of Peter Wilborn (who wrote the law). I shared the post and the subsequent discussion with a friend who runs the local cycling group, she shared it with the Sheriff who immediately dispatched 2 deputies to this woman's residence and sat down with her for quite some time and explained what she had gotten herself into. Subsequent to that some of her peeps determined that this tour company did not have a County business license and were doing business in the County (which was something of a stretch, as there are any number of outfits that do business in the County without a license, trucking companies and whatnot, and any others you could think of that do not have a physical presence. These people hounded the tour companies and County staff about it for weeks, whether they were justified or not. In any case this tour company and another one said F it and quit doing tours, to the detriment of other businesses that benefited from the people -- hotels, restaurants, whatever else. These are the mentalities that laws are needed to address, unfortunately usually after the fact of a incident. I have been involved in one or two others where aggressive drivers who were inconvenienced by a few seconds gave me a brushback, one of them I chased down into a parking lot where he was working at a restaurant, got pics of him and his truck and went to the Sheriffs Office local station and was going to file an incident report and get some action going. The cops were pleasant enough until they recognized the individual, a young
Re: [MBZ] Yesterday was...
I was glad to see that the law does mention some rider responsibilities too. Around where my folks live there were a few riding groups that also wanted to go out and see the sights, its the coast of Maine, seems nice right? Well these folks thought they could just get out of work a little early and go for a ride. So every Friday night around 4:30pm 20 or so riders would go 5 abreast all around town, during rush hour. They wouldn't yield for anybody and you had to creep along behind them until you parted ways with them. They were totally obnoxious. If you were sitting at a stop sign they would swarm around you and then take off ahead of you, often cutting off traffic and nearly causing accidents. This went on for about a month until enough people called the police that the group was met by a group of officers whole explained that they could ride politely or not ride at all. They tried to keep up their antics and were quickly shut down, IIRC bikes were impounded, charges were filed. It got quite messy for awhile... -Curt On Wednesday, June 9, 2021, 5:36:39 PM EDT, Floyd Thursby via Mercedes wrote: yeah but for some reason they need to be codified to keep the idiots somewhat in line. A coupla years ago there was a group doing these tour rides around here, maybe a dozen people would sign up for a week or two and they would have vans to take the riders to different areas around to ride maybe 30 or 40 miles a day, just see the sights, have a picnic somewhere nice. I saw a group of them at one point and chatted with them, had seen the vans carrying the people and the bikes a few times. Some woman on the next island over took exception to being inconvenienced (meaning she had to wait maybe 20sec to pass the group, if that, on roads that are seldom busy, which is why they were riding out there) as she was towing a horse trailer. She got on FB and started ranting about how she was going to "take out" the whole group next time they got in her way, her big truck and 7000lb horse trailer would make short work of them. She was proud of that. I pointed out that this would be premeditated murder if she did so, or even if she was ever involved in an incident with a cyclist it would show premeditation to do harm, and that would be really Not Good for her prognosis at the hands of Peter Wilborn (who wrote the law). I shared the post and the subsequent discussion with a friend who runs the local cycling group, she shared it with the Sheriff who immediately dispatched 2 deputies to this woman's residence and sat down with her for quite some time and explained what she had gotten herself into. Subsequent to that some of her peeps determined that this tour company did not have a County business license and were doing business in the County (which was something of a stretch, as there are any number of outfits that do business in the County without a license, trucking companies and whatnot, and any others you could think of that do not have a physical presence. These people hounded the tour companies and County staff about it for weeks, whether they were justified or not. In any case this tour company and another one said F it and quit doing tours, to the detriment of other businesses that benefited from the people -- hotels, restaurants, whatever else. These are the mentalities that laws are needed to address, unfortunately usually after the fact of a incident. I have been involved in one or two others where aggressive drivers who were inconvenienced by a few seconds gave me a brushback, one of them I chased down into a parking lot where he was working at a restaurant, got pics of him and his truck and went to the Sheriffs Office local station and was going to file an incident report and get some action going. The cops were pleasant enough until they recognized the individual, a young hothead who had been a deputy up until a year previously, when he was fired after he beat up a motorist he had stopped (and turns out the guy was a criminal, but that was not relevant to his actions) and the SO had to pay the vic $300k. The cops said they would take care of it, I asked what that meant, they said not to worry it would be taken care of. That was weird. I looked the guy up later and found it was this hothead and remembered the story then. I don't know whatever happened, maybe someone did have a chat with him. He actually tried to run me over in a roundabout just before the shopping area where he worked, I think he was late for his shift and felt terribly inconvenienced that he actually had to give way to me on my bike at 11AM on a Sunday when there was very little traffic of any kind. But whatever, there is just a lot of foolishness that laws have to be made to address --FT On 6/9/21 3:53 PM, Randy Bennell via Mercedes wrote: > True, I guess, but one would think they are just standard rules of the > road. > > > > On 09/06/2021 2:50 PM, Floyd
Re: [MBZ] Yesterday was...
yeah but for some reason they need to be codified to keep the idiots somewhat in line. A coupla years ago there was a group doing these tour rides around here, maybe a dozen people would sign up for a week or two and they would have vans to take the riders to different areas around to ride maybe 30 or 40 miles a day, just see the sights, have a picnic somewhere nice. I saw a group of them at one point and chatted with them, had seen the vans carrying the people and the bikes a few times. Some woman on the next island over took exception to being inconvenienced (meaning she had to wait maybe 20sec to pass the group, if that, on roads that are seldom busy, which is why they were riding out there) as she was towing a horse trailer. She got on FB and started ranting about how she was going to "take out" the whole group next time they got in her way, her big truck and 7000lb horse trailer would make short work of them. She was proud of that. I pointed out that this would be premeditated murder if she did so, or even if she was ever involved in an incident with a cyclist it would show premeditation to do harm, and that would be really Not Good for her prognosis at the hands of Peter Wilborn (who wrote the law). I shared the post and the subsequent discussion with a friend who runs the local cycling group, she shared it with the Sheriff who immediately dispatched 2 deputies to this woman's residence and sat down with her for quite some time and explained what she had gotten herself into. Subsequent to that some of her peeps determined that this tour company did not have a County business license and were doing business in the County (which was something of a stretch, as there are any number of outfits that do business in the County without a license, trucking companies and whatnot, and any others you could think of that do not have a physical presence. These people hounded the tour companies and County staff about it for weeks, whether they were justified or not. In any case this tour company and another one said F it and quit doing tours, to the detriment of other businesses that benefited from the people -- hotels, restaurants, whatever else. These are the mentalities that laws are needed to address, unfortunately usually after the fact of a incident. I have been involved in one or two others where aggressive drivers who were inconvenienced by a few seconds gave me a brushback, one of them I chased down into a parking lot where he was working at a restaurant, got pics of him and his truck and went to the Sheriffs Office local station and was going to file an incident report and get some action going. The cops were pleasant enough until they recognized the individual, a young hothead who had been a deputy up until a year previously, when he was fired after he beat up a motorist he had stopped (and turns out the guy was a criminal, but that was not relevant to his actions) and the SO had to pay the vic $300k. The cops said they would take care of it, I asked what that meant, they said not to worry it would be taken care of. That was weird. I looked the guy up later and found it was this hothead and remembered the story then. I don't know whatever happened, maybe someone did have a chat with him. He actually tried to run me over in a roundabout just before the shopping area where he worked, I think he was late for his shift and felt terribly inconvenienced that he actually had to give way to me on my bike at 11AM on a Sunday when there was very little traffic of any kind. But whatever, there is just a lot of foolishness that laws have to be made to address --FT On 6/9/21 3:53 PM, Randy Bennell via Mercedes wrote: True, I guess, but one would think they are just standard rules of the road. On 09/06/2021 2:50 PM, Floyd Thursby via Mercedes wrote: It encapsulates the transgressions that get cyclists injured and killed --FT On 6/9/21 3:41 PM, Randy Bennell via Mercedes wrote: Looks to be pretty ordinary. I was expecting something more. On 09/06/2021 2:29 PM, Floyd Thursby via Mercedes wrote: https://www.bikelaw.com/laws/south-carolina/ On 6/9/21 11:40 AM, Randy Bennell via Mercedes wrote: What is the gist of the "new SC bike law"? On 09/06/2021 9:37 AM, Floyd Thursby via Mercedes wrote: the 13th anniversary of getting hit while riding my bike by a dumbass (whose name was "Lance Leopard") driving a Sprinter van (Mercedes content!). I ended up getting the first conviction under the new (at that time) SC bike law, the lawyer who helped write the law was my abogado, he was quite enthused at the proceedings. I had to get the deputy who responded to rewrite the charges as she did not know about the bike law. Case was heard at out local magistrate's court after some few months, dumbass plead guilty to one count and we decided not to pursue the other in a jury trial. I ended up getting some money from his insco, covered
Re: [MBZ] Yesterday was...
True, I guess, but one would think they are just standard rules of the road. On 09/06/2021 2:50 PM, Floyd Thursby via Mercedes wrote: It encapsulates the transgressions that get cyclists injured and killed --FT On 6/9/21 3:41 PM, Randy Bennell via Mercedes wrote: Looks to be pretty ordinary. I was expecting something more. On 09/06/2021 2:29 PM, Floyd Thursby via Mercedes wrote: https://www.bikelaw.com/laws/south-carolina/ On 6/9/21 11:40 AM, Randy Bennell via Mercedes wrote: What is the gist of the "new SC bike law"? On 09/06/2021 9:37 AM, Floyd Thursby via Mercedes wrote: the 13th anniversary of getting hit while riding my bike by a dumbass (whose name was "Lance Leopard") driving a Sprinter van (Mercedes content!). I ended up getting the first conviction under the new (at that time) SC bike law, the lawyer who helped write the law was my abogado, he was quite enthused at the proceedings. I had to get the deputy who responded to rewrite the charges as she did not know about the bike law. Case was heard at out local magistrate's court after some few months, dumbass plead guilty to one count and we decided not to pursue the other in a jury trial. I ended up getting some money from his insco, covered some medical stuff and some left over that disappeared into the former wife's accounts somewhere I never figured out. On another aspect, I called her to come collect me after the incident, she showed up and after consulting with the EMTs on medical aspects, was speaking to the deputy who was standing there, and the dumbass driver's dumbass girlfriend mouthed off to Dr. wife about something, that was escalating rapidly, I pointed this out to the deputy and suggested she might want to intercede in that exchange... Interestingly enough I was at a community meeting last evening and the judge/magistrate was there, he has been retired for a coupla years now. Didn't get a chance to speak with him, but we have spoken a few times since then, seeing each other at various meetings and he is a good friend of another friend, and he remembers me and the case and was pleased I think to mete out justice under that law for the first time. Plus the dumbass and his low-rent shyster were annoying. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Yesterday was...
It encapsulates the transgressions that get cyclists injured and killed --FT On 6/9/21 3:41 PM, Randy Bennell via Mercedes wrote: Looks to be pretty ordinary. I was expecting something more. On 09/06/2021 2:29 PM, Floyd Thursby via Mercedes wrote: https://www.bikelaw.com/laws/south-carolina/ On 6/9/21 11:40 AM, Randy Bennell via Mercedes wrote: What is the gist of the "new SC bike law"? On 09/06/2021 9:37 AM, Floyd Thursby via Mercedes wrote: the 13th anniversary of getting hit while riding my bike by a dumbass (whose name was "Lance Leopard") driving a Sprinter van (Mercedes content!). I ended up getting the first conviction under the new (at that time) SC bike law, the lawyer who helped write the law was my abogado, he was quite enthused at the proceedings. I had to get the deputy who responded to rewrite the charges as she did not know about the bike law. Case was heard at out local magistrate's court after some few months, dumbass plead guilty to one count and we decided not to pursue the other in a jury trial. I ended up getting some money from his insco, covered some medical stuff and some left over that disappeared into the former wife's accounts somewhere I never figured out. On another aspect, I called her to come collect me after the incident, she showed up and after consulting with the EMTs on medical aspects, was speaking to the deputy who was standing there, and the dumbass driver's dumbass girlfriend mouthed off to Dr. wife about something, that was escalating rapidly, I pointed this out to the deputy and suggested she might want to intercede in that exchange... Interestingly enough I was at a community meeting last evening and the judge/magistrate was there, he has been retired for a coupla years now. Didn't get a chance to speak with him, but we have spoken a few times since then, seeing each other at various meetings and he is a good friend of another friend, and he remembers me and the case and was pleased I think to mete out justice under that law for the first time. Plus the dumbass and his low-rent shyster were annoying. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- --FT ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Yesterday was...
Looks to be pretty ordinary. I was expecting something more. On 09/06/2021 2:29 PM, Floyd Thursby via Mercedes wrote: https://www.bikelaw.com/laws/south-carolina/ On 6/9/21 11:40 AM, Randy Bennell via Mercedes wrote: What is the gist of the "new SC bike law"? On 09/06/2021 9:37 AM, Floyd Thursby via Mercedes wrote: the 13th anniversary of getting hit while riding my bike by a dumbass (whose name was "Lance Leopard") driving a Sprinter van (Mercedes content!). I ended up getting the first conviction under the new (at that time) SC bike law, the lawyer who helped write the law was my abogado, he was quite enthused at the proceedings. I had to get the deputy who responded to rewrite the charges as she did not know about the bike law. Case was heard at out local magistrate's court after some few months, dumbass plead guilty to one count and we decided not to pursue the other in a jury trial. I ended up getting some money from his insco, covered some medical stuff and some left over that disappeared into the former wife's accounts somewhere I never figured out. On another aspect, I called her to come collect me after the incident, she showed up and after consulting with the EMTs on medical aspects, was speaking to the deputy who was standing there, and the dumbass driver's dumbass girlfriend mouthed off to Dr. wife about something, that was escalating rapidly, I pointed this out to the deputy and suggested she might want to intercede in that exchange... Interestingly enough I was at a community meeting last evening and the judge/magistrate was there, he has been retired for a coupla years now. Didn't get a chance to speak with him, but we have spoken a few times since then, seeing each other at various meetings and he is a good friend of another friend, and he remembers me and the case and was pleased I think to mete out justice under that law for the first time. Plus the dumbass and his low-rent shyster were annoying. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Yesterday was...
https://www.bikelaw.com/laws/south-carolina/ On 6/9/21 11:40 AM, Randy Bennell via Mercedes wrote: What is the gist of the "new SC bike law"? On 09/06/2021 9:37 AM, Floyd Thursby via Mercedes wrote: the 13th anniversary of getting hit while riding my bike by a dumbass (whose name was "Lance Leopard") driving a Sprinter van (Mercedes content!). I ended up getting the first conviction under the new (at that time) SC bike law, the lawyer who helped write the law was my abogado, he was quite enthused at the proceedings. I had to get the deputy who responded to rewrite the charges as she did not know about the bike law. Case was heard at out local magistrate's court after some few months, dumbass plead guilty to one count and we decided not to pursue the other in a jury trial. I ended up getting some money from his insco, covered some medical stuff and some left over that disappeared into the former wife's accounts somewhere I never figured out. On another aspect, I called her to come collect me after the incident, she showed up and after consulting with the EMTs on medical aspects, was speaking to the deputy who was standing there, and the dumbass driver's dumbass girlfriend mouthed off to Dr. wife about something, that was escalating rapidly, I pointed this out to the deputy and suggested she might want to intercede in that exchange... Interestingly enough I was at a community meeting last evening and the judge/magistrate was there, he has been retired for a coupla years now. Didn't get a chance to speak with him, but we have spoken a few times since then, seeing each other at various meetings and he is a good friend of another friend, and he remembers me and the case and was pleased I think to mete out justice under that law for the first time. Plus the dumbass and his low-rent shyster were annoying. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- --FT ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Yesterday was...
What is the gist of the "new SC bike law"? On 09/06/2021 9:37 AM, Floyd Thursby via Mercedes wrote: the 13th anniversary of getting hit while riding my bike by a dumbass (whose name was "Lance Leopard") driving a Sprinter van (Mercedes content!). I ended up getting the first conviction under the new (at that time) SC bike law, the lawyer who helped write the law was my abogado, he was quite enthused at the proceedings. I had to get the deputy who responded to rewrite the charges as she did not know about the bike law. Case was heard at out local magistrate's court after some few months, dumbass plead guilty to one count and we decided not to pursue the other in a jury trial. I ended up getting some money from his insco, covered some medical stuff and some left over that disappeared into the former wife's accounts somewhere I never figured out. On another aspect, I called her to come collect me after the incident, she showed up and after consulting with the EMTs on medical aspects, was speaking to the deputy who was standing there, and the dumbass driver's dumbass girlfriend mouthed off to Dr. wife about something, that was escalating rapidly, I pointed this out to the deputy and suggested she might want to intercede in that exchange... Interestingly enough I was at a community meeting last evening and the judge/magistrate was there, he has been retired for a coupla years now. Didn't get a chance to speak with him, but we have spoken a few times since then, seeing each other at various meetings and he is a good friend of another friend, and he remembers me and the case and was pleased I think to mete out justice under that law for the first time. Plus the dumbass and his low-rent shyster were annoying. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Yesterday was...
So, besides being mentally impaired [as evidenced by choice of girlfriend] the driver was under the influence of drugs? On reflection, it is likely his insurance would have joined in the fight in court after they canceled his coverage, and insurance companies are quite happy to flood the courts with their attorneys, which you would have had to defend against [more cost to you]. Sounds like in the final tally, you won by not pressing further. On Wed, Jun 9, 2021 at 8:09 AM Floyd Thursby via Mercedes < mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > When the DAG showed up she says to the DAD "you just had surgery and > shouldn't be driving after taking those painkillers." U > okeedokee then... > > I told my lawyer and he just rolled his eyes and said if we go to trial > we will subpoena his medical records and drill down on that issue. We > decided against pursuing the more serious charge as the DAD shyster said > "No South Carolina jury will convict a driver of hitting a bicycle > rider" and unfortunately my lawyer agreed with that, even though it was > clear DAD was totally in the wrong. There wasn't a lot to gain, other > than some satisfaction, from chasing that charge, so we let it go. > > --FT > > On 6/9/21 11:01 AM, G Mann via Mercedes wrote: > > Happy "I lived through that" Birthday ! > > Congratulations on winning. As you describe the dumbass girlfriend, it's > > too bad the officer did not add a charge of "distracted driving" while > > "impaired".. [mentally impaired surely must count against the ability to > > drive safely.] > > > > > > On Wed, Jun 9, 2021 at 7:38 AM Floyd Thursby via Mercedes < > > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > > > >> the 13th anniversary of getting hit while riding my bike by a dumbass > >> (whose name was "Lance Leopard") driving a Sprinter van (Mercedes > >> content!). I ended up getting the first conviction under the new (at > >> that time) SC bike law, the lawyer who helped write the law was my > >> abogado, he was quite enthused at the proceedings. I had to get the > >> deputy who responded to rewrite the charges as she did not know about > >> the bike law. Case was heard at out local magistrate's court after some > >> few months, dumbass plead guilty to one count and we decided not to > >> pursue the other in a jury trial. > >> > >> I ended up getting some money from his insco, covered some medical stuff > >> and some left over that disappeared into the former wife's accounts > >> somewhere I never figured out. On another aspect, I called her to come > >> collect me after the incident, she showed up and after consulting with > >> the EMTs on medical aspects, was speaking to the deputy who was standing > >> there, and the dumbass driver's dumbass girlfriend mouthed off to Dr. > >> wife about something, that was escalating rapidly, I pointed this out to > >> the deputy and suggested she might want to intercede in that exchange... > >> > >> Interestingly enough I was at a community meeting last evening and the > >> judge/magistrate was there, he has been retired for a coupla years now. > >> Didn't get a chance to speak with him, but we have spoken a few times > >> since then, seeing each other at various meetings and he is a good > >> friend of another friend, and he remembers me and the case and was > >> pleased I think to mete out justice under that law for the first time. > >> Plus the dumbass and his low-rent shyster were annoying. > >> > >> -- > >> --FT > >> > >> ___ > >> http://www.okiebenz.com > >> > >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > >> > >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > >> > >> > > ___ > > http://www.okiebenz.com > > > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > > -- > --FT > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Yesterday was...
When the DAG showed up she says to the DAD "you just had surgery and shouldn't be driving after taking those painkillers." U okeedokee then... I told my lawyer and he just rolled his eyes and said if we go to trial we will subpoena his medical records and drill down on that issue. We decided against pursuing the more serious charge as the DAD shyster said "No South Carolina jury will convict a driver of hitting a bicycle rider" and unfortunately my lawyer agreed with that, even though it was clear DAD was totally in the wrong. There wasn't a lot to gain, other than some satisfaction, from chasing that charge, so we let it go. --FT On 6/9/21 11:01 AM, G Mann via Mercedes wrote: Happy "I lived through that" Birthday ! Congratulations on winning. As you describe the dumbass girlfriend, it's too bad the officer did not add a charge of "distracted driving" while "impaired".. [mentally impaired surely must count against the ability to drive safely.] On Wed, Jun 9, 2021 at 7:38 AM Floyd Thursby via Mercedes < mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: the 13th anniversary of getting hit while riding my bike by a dumbass (whose name was "Lance Leopard") driving a Sprinter van (Mercedes content!). I ended up getting the first conviction under the new (at that time) SC bike law, the lawyer who helped write the law was my abogado, he was quite enthused at the proceedings. I had to get the deputy who responded to rewrite the charges as she did not know about the bike law. Case was heard at out local magistrate's court after some few months, dumbass plead guilty to one count and we decided not to pursue the other in a jury trial. I ended up getting some money from his insco, covered some medical stuff and some left over that disappeared into the former wife's accounts somewhere I never figured out. On another aspect, I called her to come collect me after the incident, she showed up and after consulting with the EMTs on medical aspects, was speaking to the deputy who was standing there, and the dumbass driver's dumbass girlfriend mouthed off to Dr. wife about something, that was escalating rapidly, I pointed this out to the deputy and suggested she might want to intercede in that exchange... Interestingly enough I was at a community meeting last evening and the judge/magistrate was there, he has been retired for a coupla years now. Didn't get a chance to speak with him, but we have spoken a few times since then, seeing each other at various meetings and he is a good friend of another friend, and he remembers me and the case and was pleased I think to mete out justice under that law for the first time. Plus the dumbass and his low-rent shyster were annoying. -- --FT ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- --FT ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Yesterday was...
Happy "I lived through that" Birthday ! Congratulations on winning. As you describe the dumbass girlfriend, it's too bad the officer did not add a charge of "distracted driving" while "impaired".. [mentally impaired surely must count against the ability to drive safely.] On Wed, Jun 9, 2021 at 7:38 AM Floyd Thursby via Mercedes < mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > the 13th anniversary of getting hit while riding my bike by a dumbass > (whose name was "Lance Leopard") driving a Sprinter van (Mercedes > content!). I ended up getting the first conviction under the new (at > that time) SC bike law, the lawyer who helped write the law was my > abogado, he was quite enthused at the proceedings. I had to get the > deputy who responded to rewrite the charges as she did not know about > the bike law. Case was heard at out local magistrate's court after some > few months, dumbass plead guilty to one count and we decided not to > pursue the other in a jury trial. > > I ended up getting some money from his insco, covered some medical stuff > and some left over that disappeared into the former wife's accounts > somewhere I never figured out. On another aspect, I called her to come > collect me after the incident, she showed up and after consulting with > the EMTs on medical aspects, was speaking to the deputy who was standing > there, and the dumbass driver's dumbass girlfriend mouthed off to Dr. > wife about something, that was escalating rapidly, I pointed this out to > the deputy and suggested she might want to intercede in that exchange... > > Interestingly enough I was at a community meeting last evening and the > judge/magistrate was there, he has been retired for a coupla years now. > Didn't get a chance to speak with him, but we have spoken a few times > since then, seeing each other at various meetings and he is a good > friend of another friend, and he remembers me and the case and was > pleased I think to mete out justice under that law for the first time. > Plus the dumbass and his low-rent shyster were annoying. > > -- > --FT > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
[MBZ] Yesterday was...
the 13th anniversary of getting hit while riding my bike by a dumbass (whose name was "Lance Leopard") driving a Sprinter van (Mercedes content!). I ended up getting the first conviction under the new (at that time) SC bike law, the lawyer who helped write the law was my abogado, he was quite enthused at the proceedings. I had to get the deputy who responded to rewrite the charges as she did not know about the bike law. Case was heard at out local magistrate's court after some few months, dumbass plead guilty to one count and we decided not to pursue the other in a jury trial. I ended up getting some money from his insco, covered some medical stuff and some left over that disappeared into the former wife's accounts somewhere I never figured out. On another aspect, I called her to come collect me after the incident, she showed up and after consulting with the EMTs on medical aspects, was speaking to the deputy who was standing there, and the dumbass driver's dumbass girlfriend mouthed off to Dr. wife about something, that was escalating rapidly, I pointed this out to the deputy and suggested she might want to intercede in that exchange... Interestingly enough I was at a community meeting last evening and the judge/magistrate was there, he has been retired for a coupla years now. Didn't get a chance to speak with him, but we have spoken a few times since then, seeing each other at various meetings and he is a good friend of another friend, and he remembers me and the case and was pleased I think to mete out justice under that law for the first time. Plus the dumbass and his low-rent shyster were annoying. -- --FT ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
