Re: [MBZ] 124 monovalve variations

[Craig via Mercedes]

On Wed, 25 Dec 2019 04:37:07 + (UTC) Max Dillon
 wrote:

> 
> The SPDT function seems to be done mechanically in the base. I haven't
> taken one apart yet, but I surmise that the solenoid moves a rod that
> has two valve seats, which are opposed so that only one can be open at
> a time.

You missed my point: From what I have seen, the monovalve has one inlet
 and one outlet. There is no way for it to do an
 SPDT function.


> The part is the entire assembly. Only the circulation pump is available
> as a separate part.

That's why it's so expensive, as I suspected!


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] 124 monovalve variations

[Max Dillon via Mercedes]

The SPDT function seems to be done mechanically in the base. I haven't taken 
one apart yet, but I surmise that the solenoid moves a rod that has two valve 
seats, which are opposed so that only one can be open at a time.

The part is the entire assembly. Only the circulation pump is available as a 
separate part.

Max Dillon
Charleston SC

Dec 24, 2019 5:45:16 PM Craig via Mercedes :

> On Tue, 24 Dec 2019 17:22:56 -0500 Meade Dillon via Mercedes
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> > Craig - your VIN brings up the same $$$ monovalve as my '95 E300. The
> > Daytona FL dealer I've been using has a list price of $520 for it.
> > 001-830-40-84
> > 
> > 004-830-20-84 seems to be for non-heated washer bottles, and lists for
> > $153 at same dealer. I'm going to poke around a bit more to see what I
> > can learn about this valve, and then I'm probably going to order it and
> > try it.
> > 
> > 
> > Another possibility is 001 830 38 84, which is about $275, and seems to
> > be appropriate for late model 124 gassers as well as diesels. Maybe
> > this valve doesn't have the bypass option, but does have fitting for
> > heated washer bottle? Very strange. This is the valve that should
> > work in my '94 gasser wagon.
> > 
> 
> Have you seen the pictures and questions in my email of 13:12:20 -0700
> today?
> 
> 
> Craig
> 
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Re: [MBZ] 124 monovalve variations

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

Do you need the heated washer bottle in balmy SC?   My cars never had 
it.  I had to  make sure to use fluid rated to -40 in the winter.  (Or 
do without washers.) Could you delete the flow to the washer bottle and 
use the cheaper valve?   I salvaged a heated 126 washer bottle, but I 
don't remember what year it was from.  Dan got part of it when he had a 126.



Meade Dillon via Mercedes 
December 24, 2019 at 4:22 PM
Craig - your VIN brings up the same $$$ monovalve as my '95 E300. The
Daytona FL dealer I've been using has a list price of $520 for it.
001-830-40-84

004-830-20-84 seems to be for non-heated washer bottles, and lists for 
$153

at same dealer. I'm going to poke around a bit more to see what I can
learn about this valve, and then I'm probably going to order it and 
try it.



Another possibility is 001 830 38 84, which is about $275, and seems to be
appropriate for late model 124 gassers as well as diesels. Maybe this
valve doesn't have the bypass option, but does have fitting for heated
washer bottle? Very strange. This is the valve that should work in my '94
gasser wagon.
-
Max
Charleston SC


On Tue, Dec 24, 2019 at 2:33 PM Craig via Mercedes 
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Re: [MBZ] 124 monovalve variations

[Craig via Mercedes]

On Tue, 24 Dec 2019 17:22:56 -0500 Meade Dillon via Mercedes
 wrote:

> Craig - your VIN brings up the same $$$ monovalve as my '95 E300.  The
> Daytona FL dealer I've been using has a list price of $520 for it.
> 001-830-40-84
> 
> 004-830-20-84 seems to be for non-heated washer bottles, and lists for
> $153 at same dealer.  I'm going to poke around a bit more to see what I
> can learn about this valve, and then I'm probably going to order it and
> try it.
> 
> 
> Another possibility is 001 830 38 84, which is about $275, and seems to
> be appropriate for late model 124 gassers as well as diesels.  Maybe
> this valve doesn't have the bypass option, but does have fitting for
> heated washer bottle?  Very strange.  This is the valve that should
> work in my '94 gasser wagon.

Have you seen the pictures and questions in my email of 13:12:20 -0700
today?


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] 124 monovalve variations

[Meade Dillon via Mercedes]

Craig - your VIN brings up the same $$$ monovalve as my '95 E300.  The
Daytona FL dealer I've been using has a list price of $520 for it.
001-830-40-84

004-830-20-84 seems to be for non-heated washer bottles, and lists for $153
at same dealer.  I'm going to poke around a bit more to see what I can
learn about this valve, and then I'm probably going to order it and try it.


Another possibility is 001 830 38 84, which is about $275, and seems to be
appropriate for late model 124 gassers as well as diesels.  Maybe this
valve doesn't have the bypass option, but does have fitting for heated
washer bottle?  Very strange.  This is the valve that should work in my '94
gasser wagon.
-
Max
Charleston SC


On Tue, Dec 24, 2019 at 2:33 PM Craig via Mercedes 
wrote:

> On Tue, 24 Dec 2019 09:46:43 -0500 Meade Dillon via Mercedes
>  wrote:
>
> > Craig - Send me your VIN so I can see which part number comes up for
> > your replacement monovalve.
>
> More than you wanted ...
>
> Craig
>
>
> VIN WDBEB28E1PB934645
>
> 1990-1993 300D 2.5 Turbo Chassis Type 124.128 Engine Type 602.962
>
> Model designation:
> Model: 300 D 2.5 TURBO USA (124.128)
> Market: North America
> Catalog: 15V
> ~ As of 09/89 ~
>
> - Datacard -
> Identification number:  WDB1241281B934645
>   VIN:  WDBEB28E1PB934645
>
> Chassis
>
>Market: NA,North America
>  Order number: 0 2 705 38872
> Delivery date:
> Sales designation: 250 D TURBO[MODEL_IDX = 0]
>  Paint code 1: 702
>  Paint code 5: 75
> Equipment: 175
>Engine no.: 602962 12 017248
>  Transmission: 722418 03 302799 [transmissionType = GA]
>
> SA code
> 221 - LEFT FRONT SEAT, ELECTRICALLY ADJUSTABLE
> 222 - RIGHT FRONT SEAT, ELECTRICALLY ADJUSTABLE
> 240 - OUTSIDE TEMPERATURE INDICATOR
> 280 - LEATHER STEERING WHEEL AND LEATHER GEAR SHIFT KNOB
> 291 - AIRBAG FOR FRONT PASSENGER
> 300 - STORAGE BOX IN FRONT TRAY
> 340 - ADDITIONAL 3RD STOP LAMP
> 412 - ELECTRIC SLIDING ROOF WITH TILTING DEVICE
> 420 - AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION 4-GEAR
> 430 - HEADREST IN THE REAR, LEFT AND RIGHT
> 440 - TEMPOMAT (CRUISE CONTROL)
> 467 - ELECTRONIC LOCKING DIFFERENTIAL
> 491 - U.S. VERSION
> 524 - PAINTWORK - PRESERVATION
> 543 - SUN VISOR WITH MAKE-UP MIRROR L. AND R., BE-
> 551 - ANTI-THEFT/ANTI-BREAK-IN WARNING SYSTEM
> 588
> 593 - ALL-ROUND WD-GREEN GLASS, HEATED REAR WINDOW-ESG, BF
> 611 - EXIT LIGHTS FOR DRIVER DOORS
> 639
> 640 - 15-HOLE LIGHT ALLOY RIMS
> 664 - LIGHT ALLOY WHEEL 7-HOLE STAR DESIGN 17 INCH
> 673 - HIGH-CAPACITY BATTERY
> 757
> 803 - AEJ 06/1/M/X
> 814
> 702 - RANGE OF DELIVERY OF SKD VEHICLES - VIETNAM
> 75
> 175A
>
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Re: [MBZ] 124 monovalve variations

[Craig via Mercedes]

On Tue, 24 Dec 2019 09:46:43 -0500 Meade Dillon via Mercedes
 wrote:

> Craig - Send me your VIN so I can see which part number comes up for
> your replacement monovalve.

More than you wanted ...

Craig


VIN WDBEB28E1PB934645

1990-1993 300D 2.5 Turbo Chassis Type 124.128 Engine Type 602.962

Model designation:
Model: 300 D 2.5 TURBO USA (124.128)
Market: North America
Catalog: 15V
~ As of 09/89 ~

- Datacard -
Identification number:  WDB1241281B934645
  VIN:  WDBEB28E1PB934645

Chassis

   Market: NA,North America
 Order number: 0 2 705 38872
Delivery date:
Sales designation: 250 D TURBO[MODEL_IDX = 0]
 Paint code 1: 702
 Paint code 5: 75
Equipment: 175
   Engine no.: 602962 12 017248
 Transmission: 722418 03 302799 [transmissionType = GA]

SA code
221 - LEFT FRONT SEAT, ELECTRICALLY ADJUSTABLE
222 - RIGHT FRONT SEAT, ELECTRICALLY ADJUSTABLE
240 - OUTSIDE TEMPERATURE INDICATOR
280 - LEATHER STEERING WHEEL AND LEATHER GEAR SHIFT KNOB
291 - AIRBAG FOR FRONT PASSENGER
300 - STORAGE BOX IN FRONT TRAY
340 - ADDITIONAL 3RD STOP LAMP
412 - ELECTRIC SLIDING ROOF WITH TILTING DEVICE
420 - AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION 4-GEAR
430 - HEADREST IN THE REAR, LEFT AND RIGHT
440 - TEMPOMAT (CRUISE CONTROL)
467 - ELECTRONIC LOCKING DIFFERENTIAL
491 - U.S. VERSION
524 - PAINTWORK - PRESERVATION
543 - SUN VISOR WITH MAKE-UP MIRROR L. AND R., BE-
551 - ANTI-THEFT/ANTI-BREAK-IN WARNING SYSTEM
588
593 - ALL-ROUND WD-GREEN GLASS, HEATED REAR WINDOW-ESG, BF
611 - EXIT LIGHTS FOR DRIVER DOORS
639
640 - 15-HOLE LIGHT ALLOY RIMS
664 - LIGHT ALLOY WHEEL 7-HOLE STAR DESIGN 17 INCH
673 - HIGH-CAPACITY BATTERY
757
803 - AEJ 06/1/M/X
814
702 - RANGE OF DELIVERY OF SKD VEHICLES - VIETNAM
75
175A

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Re: [MBZ] 124 monovalve variations

[Meade Dillon via Mercedes]

Craig - Send me your VIN so I can see which part number comes up for your
replacement monovalve.
-
Max
Charleston SC
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Re: [MBZ] 124 monovalve variations

[Peter Frederick via Mercedes]

This is different than the 87 -- circ pump is under the washer reservior on 
that car, monovalve is by the battery.
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Re: [MBZ] 124 monovalve variations

[Peter Frederick via Mercedes]

Probably.  Will have hoses attached.  Doesn't look like what I remember from 
mine, but mine is an 87.
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Re: [MBZ] 124 monovalve variations

[Peter Frederick via Mercedes]

Monovalve is on the right fender by the battery, it's on the return side of the 
heater core.



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Re: [MBZ] 124 monovalve variations

[Meade Dillon via Mercedes]

My current theory is that the bypass goes with the heated wiper washer
fluid bottle. The bypass pipe parts are noted in the EPC to go with the
heated bottle.

Does anyone have a 124 diesel with no heated wiper washer fluid bottle?
I'd like to know if your monovalve set-up includes the heater bypass.
-
Max
Charleston SC


On Sun, Dec 22, 2019 at 1:01 PM Meade Dillon  wrote:

> Well the mystery deepens.  Looking up a generic E300, instead of searching
> by VIN, a different monovalve comes up, and it is forward compatible with
> many later cars from 1995 up until 2011, including 210 E300 with OM606,
> both turbo and non-turbo.  Looking at the 124 2.5 models, 1991 used a
> different type than 1992-1993.  So perhaps there were two different
> variations of heater / monovalve set up, some with a bypass and some
> without, for my E300 and for other years.  Perhaps it was a
> climate-specific variation, or related to some other options?
> -
> Max
> Charleston SC
>
>
> On Sun, Dec 22, 2019 at 12:11 PM Max Dillon  wrote:
>
>>
>> Peter, I don't know how a bypass would help that. Maybe it encourages a
>> continuous flow through more of the hoses, keeping them warmer?
>>
>> I'm recalling that Curley's 124 2.5 also has a bypass, I need to see
>> about the cost of that monovalve new and if it could fit my car.
>>
>> Max Dillon
>> Charleston SC
>>
>> Dec 22, 2019 8:57:35 AM Peter Frederick via Mercedes <
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com>:
>>
>> > Since diesels produce very little waste heat at idle, I would suspect
>> that there is a bypass to prevent loss of cabin heat under low load -- the
>> water can cool off enough on the way from the head to the core enough to
>> cause erratic heat.
>> >
>> > These are luxury cars, people complain of the heat isn't exactly what
>> they set the control wheel for.
>> > ___
>> > http://www.okiebenz.com
>> >
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>> >
>> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> >
>>
>>
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Re: [MBZ] 124 monovalve variations

[Meade Dillon via Mercedes]

Well the mystery deepens.  Looking up a generic E300, instead of searching
by VIN, a different monovalve comes up, and it is forward compatible with
many later cars from 1995 up until 2011, including 210 E300 with OM606,
both turbo and non-turbo.  Looking at the 124 2.5 models, 1991 used a
different type than 1992-1993.  So perhaps there were two different
variations of heater / monovalve set up, some with a bypass and some
without, for my E300 and for other years.  Perhaps it was a
climate-specific variation, or related to some other options?
-
Max
Charleston SC


On Sun, Dec 22, 2019 at 12:11 PM Max Dillon  wrote:

>
> Peter, I don't know how a bypass would help that. Maybe it encourages a
> continuous flow through more of the hoses, keeping them warmer?
>
> I'm recalling that Curley's 124 2.5 also has a bypass, I need to see about
> the cost of that monovalve new and if it could fit my car.
>
> Max Dillon
> Charleston SC
>
> Dec 22, 2019 8:57:35 AM Peter Frederick via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com>:
>
> > Since diesels produce very little waste heat at idle, I would suspect
> that there is a bypass to prevent loss of cabin heat under low load -- the
> water can cool off enough on the way from the head to the core enough to
> cause erratic heat.
> >
> > These are luxury cars, people complain of the heat isn't exactly what
> they set the control wheel for.
> > ___
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> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] 124 monovalve variations

[Max Dillon via Mercedes]

Peter, I don't know how a bypass would help that. Maybe it encourages a 
continuous flow through more of the hoses, keeping them warmer?

I'm recalling that Curley's 124 2.5 also has a bypass, I need to see about the 
cost of that monovalve new and if it could fit my car.

Max Dillon
Charleston SC

Dec 22, 2019 8:57:35 AM Peter Frederick via Mercedes :

> Since diesels produce very little waste heat at idle, I would suspect that 
> there is a bypass to prevent loss of cabin heat under low load -- the water 
> can cool off enough on the way from the head to the core enough to cause 
> erratic heat.
> 
> These are luxury cars, people complain of the heat isn't exactly what they 
> set the control wheel for.
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Re: [MBZ] 124 monovalve variations

[Peter Frederick via Mercedes]

Since diesels produce very little waste heat at idle, I would suspect that 
there is a bypass to prevent loss of cabin heat under low load -- the water can 
cool off enough on the way from the head to the core enough to cause erratic 
heat.

These are luxury cars, people complain of the heat isn't exactly what they set 
the control wheel for.
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Re: [MBZ] 124 monovalve variations

[Craig via Mercedes]

On Sat, 21 Dec 2019 08:46:08 -0500 Meade Dillon via Mercedes
 wrote:

> I compared the '94 gasser monovalve to the '95 E300 monovalve, and the
> major difference is that the E300 version has a bypass around the heater
> core, so the valve is two-way and either feeds coolant to the heater
> core or bypasses the heater core.   Gasser has no bypass, so the valve
> is simple on-off.

I know Marshall was insistent on the design efforts of the engineers at
Sindelfingen being the best possible, but why is bypassing necessary for
the diesel engine but not for the gasoline engine?

Is it because the diesel engine needs a continuous flow of coolant
through the parts of the engine associated with heat to the heater core?

Is it because diesel engines do not make much heat unless they are under
load and experience wet stacking and thus the bypassing is to keep the
most heat in the engine when it is not needed elsewhere?

The different monovalve and extra parts and expense in manufacturing say
there must be a reason, but I'm not sure what the reason might be.


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] 124 monovalve variations

[Craig via Mercedes]

On Sat, 21 Dec 2019 10:26:20 -0500 Meade Dillon via Mercedes
 wrote:

> Yes, that part is pretty straightforward to design and execute.
> 
> Plumbing the coolant flow is where it gets fun.

Oh! Sorry, I did not think of that!


> I need a new branch off the coolant circuit on the other side of the
> existing monovalve for the bypass circuit.   Right now that branching
> occurs in the existing monovalve body.  This means finding a "Y" or "T"
> fitting of the right diameter and splicing that in, and routing the new
> branch off that fitting to the newly added monovalve / bypass circuit.

Yes, that is a bit of work.


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] 124 monovalve variations

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

I've always built those out of soldered 1/2" copper fittings.   Made 
some the first time to send water to the MB heater I installed as a 
second heater for the frod van.   Last was to replace the crappy prastic 
Ys for the same purpose in the new dogde van so I don't get F.O.R.D again.



Meade Dillon via Mercedes 
December 21, 2019 at 9:26 AM
Yes, that part is pretty straightforward to design and execute.

Plumbing the coolant flow is where it gets fun. I need a new branch off
the coolant circuit on the other side of the existing monovalve for the
bypass circuit. Right now that branching occurs in the existing monovalve
body. This means finding a "Y" or "T" fitting of the right diameter and
splicing that in, and routing the new branch off that fitting to the newly
added monovalve / bypass circuit.
-
Max
Charleston SC



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Re: [MBZ] 124 monovalve variations

[Meade Dillon via Mercedes]

Yes, that part is pretty straightforward to design and execute.

Plumbing the coolant flow is where it gets fun.  I need a new branch off
the coolant circuit on the other side of the existing monovalve for the
bypass circuit.   Right now that branching occurs in the existing monovalve
body.  This means finding a "Y" or "T" fitting of the right diameter and
splicing that in, and routing the new branch off that fitting to the newly
added monovalve / bypass circuit.
-
Max
Charleston SC


On Sat, Dec 21, 2019 at 10:11 AM Craig via Mercedes 
wrote:

> On Sat, 21 Dec 2019 08:46:08 -0500 Meade Dillon via Mercedes
>  wrote:
>
> > One way to re-engineer would be replace the $450 valve (two-way) with
> > two on-off valves, one on the heater core circuit and one on the bypass
> > circuit, controlled so that either one or the other is open.  That
> > would be a bit of work, but less expensive than a new monovalve.
>
> No, it would not be a bit of work; all you have to do is add an ice-cube
> relay. With +12 to the armature, the normally-closed contact will provide
> power with the signal to the coil off and the normally-open contact will
> provide power with the signal to the coil on. You just have to figure out
> which on-off valve to connect to which contact, i.e., when energized, does
> the two-way monovalve open the heater circuit or the bypass circuit?
>
>
> Craig
>
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Re: [MBZ] 124 monovalve variations

[Craig via Mercedes]

On Sat, 21 Dec 2019 08:46:08 -0500 Meade Dillon via Mercedes
 wrote:

> One way to re-engineer would be replace the $450 valve (two-way) with
> two on-off valves, one on the heater core circuit and one on the bypass
> circuit, controlled so that either one or the other is open.  That
> would be a bit of work, but less expensive than a new monovalve.

No, it would not be a bit of work; all you have to do is add an ice-cube
relay. With +12 to the armature, the normally-closed contact will provide
power with the signal to the coil off and the normally-open contact will
provide power with the signal to the coil on. You just have to figure out
which on-off valve to connect to which contact, i.e., when energized, does
the two-way monovalve open the heater circuit or the bypass circuit?


Craig

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