Re: [MBZ] 1977 300D non turbo engine replacement Cross Roads
R A Bennell wrote: It is basic ignorance. Most people out there have no idea that your old diesel can't go any faster. For whatever reason, people behind the wheel often become irritated way too easy. Traffic is frustrating at times and people have no patience. They just want you out of their way now. I had that problem in spades with my diesel Vanagon. One of those makes a 240D look like a top fuel dragster. I had a bumper sticker on the back hatch that said, 48 horsepower. Please, just pass. It seemed to help. If people chuckle they forget to get angry.
Re: [MBZ] 1977 300D non turbo engine replacement Cross Roads
Trampas wrote: There is nothing more expensive than a cheap Mercedes. With all due respect, a cheap BMW is much more expensive. ;)
Re: [MBZ] 1977 300D non turbo engine replacement Cross Roads
Marshall Booth wrote: The cost of major repairs on a Mercedes (required infrequently, but if needed - they ARE REQUIRED) can be very high... Part of the problem is Mercedes mechanics are expensive and hard to find, and run-of-the-mill shops don't want to touch these cars. I'm beginning to think my next beater that I drive for work will be an American car, just for ease of getting work done. It'd be nice to be able to use normal mechanics that are open at times other than when I'm supposed to be at work. It's hard to figure out how to drop a car off at a place that's open 8 to 5 only on weekdays without taking time off!
Re: [MBZ] 1977 300D non turbo engine replacement Cross Roads
All the people I work with and my neighbors are on their second or third cars. Total cost for two brand new cars is in the range of 40-65k plus interest cost for some.. they always tease me about my car is under repair most of the times but I tell them in 12 years since I owned the car, I have not put 50-60k plus interest cost into repairs ..I feel I am ahead of this game. On the other hand, there are business tools to answer this question under a lot of best guess estimates My gut reaction from the worst to the best case is about above average cost but slowly decreasing over time to a reasonable amount. For example, last year on the 300 TD total cost was $250, year before $800.00 and this year so far $1,261.00 an average of $770.00 dollars driving 30k a year. .0257 cost per mile. If I figure in a engine overhaul, $1,000.00 per cylinder plus others additional the estimate is $6,000.00 next year ...which comes out to be average of $2077.00 per year or .069 per mileage Take the cost of a purchase of another MB . and you can do the math and estimate repair cost Bill 1981 300 TD p.s. major work is done in Canada like $1,261.00 bill at a MB dealer Price quote in New England was $2,200.00 to $2,500 Take a vacation, have the car repaired and return home is about the same in the USA beware, dollar is falling I started this when $1.00 USA dollar is equal to $1.55 Canadian, now it's $1.00 USA dollar is $1.145 Canadian plus the %15 tax Shop rate MB dealers in Canada is about $85.00 USA dollars per hour Rick Knoble wrote: With all due respect, a cheap BMW is much more expensive. ;) I can second that! Rick Knoble '85 300 CD '87 190 DT ___ http://www.striplin.net For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net
Re: [MBZ] 1977 300D non turbo engine replacement Cross Roads
I've been taking car repair vacations for quite awhile now. Every year when we go to camp for a week I try to schedule in a repair on my pickup. Why? $30/hr labor is why. The quality of the work is excellent and the guy appreciates it when I tip him $50. I appreciate coming out $200-$300 ahead... Couple years ago I had the radiator done, got it online for an outstanding price (although its leaking now, maybe it wasn't such a great deal) and had it installed with new hoses, thermostat and a coolant flush and refill with fresh for like $80. If I keep the Dakota (185k) it'll need a replacement transfer case and probably transmission before too long (I think 185k on the trans is pretty dammed good) plus some body work. If I decide to go that route it'll be a 2 week vacation I think... -Curt Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 02:11:07 -0500 From: Bill Gallagher [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [MBZ] 1977 300D non turbo engine replacement Cross Roads To: Mercedes Discussion List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Bill 1981 300 TD p.s. major work is done in Canada like $1,261.00 bill at a MB dealer Price quote in New England was $2,200.00 to $2,500 Take a vacation, have the car repaired and return home is about the same in the USA beware, dollar is falling I started this when $1.00 USA dollar is equal to $1.55 Canadian, now it's $1.00 USA dollar is $1.145 Canadian plus the %15 tax Shop rate MB dealers in Canada is about $85.00 USA dollars per hour - Yahoo! Mail Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze. From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fri Mar 10 14:54:56 2006 Received: from mxa.windwireless.net ([199.164.167.40]) by server5.arterytc5.net with esmtp (Exim 4.52) id 1FHj16-0004FJ-5a for [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 14:54:56 + Received: from dogear.com (IP-206-63-94-251.progress.wi-fi.windwireless.net [206.63.94.251] (may be forged)) by mxa.windwireless.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k2AEtWmA006891 for [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 06:55:32 -0800 Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 06:54:56 -0800 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) From: Jim Cathey [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Message-Id: [EMAIL PROTECTED] X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) X-Virus-Scan: smtp-vilter X-SMTP-Vilter-Version: 1.1.0rc2 X-SMTP-Vilter-Backend: Clam AntiVirus Daemon (clamd) X-SMTP-Vilter-Status: clean X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0rc4 (mxa.windwireless.net [199.164.167.40]); Fri, 10 Mar 2006 06:55:32 -0800 (PST) X-Antivirus-Scanner: Clean mail though you should still use an Antivirus Subject: Re: [MBZ] Wulf is back! AND Stanadyne in line fuel heater X-BeenThere: [EMAIL PROTECTED] X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list Reply-To: Mercedes Discussion List [EMAIL PROTECTED] List-Id: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes_striplin.net.striplin.net List-Unsubscribe: http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net, mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] List-Archive: http://striplin.net/pipermail/mercedes_striplin.net List-Post: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] List-Help: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] List-Subscribe: http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net, mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 14:54:56 - Remember that windchill doesn't effect your car... It does, in that it will take your car down to ambient temperature faster. That is, if it's cold _and_ windy enough it won't matter that you drove your car to work in the morning, it still might not start to go home if all the heat has been sucked out again. -- Jim
Re: [MBZ] 1977 300D non turbo engine replacement Cross Roads
But would it be worth doing all the crack? Seriously though, jesting aside: One of the things that I was most surprised about when I began to investigate an older Mercedes was how affordable they were. Not having had any specific interest in them in the past, I always assumed that even an old one (as in 80s) would be way way out of the range of reasonable (like the range you gave for the showroom cond. one). And an even older one would be getting into true classic status and thus would be even further out of range. So basically one that is in the lower $2k range is one that, generally speaking, has not been maintained and the seller therefore knows it has problems? I see all the time through the list, Mercedes diesels for that sort of price (and that's about what mine cost) and the listers often tout picking them up. Guess what I have been missing all along is that it is understood that if you buy one at this price range, you will be looking - almost for certain - at several repairs. I have read things today on the list that I did not see in the six months or longer leading up to the purchase of my 240D. But in fairness, it is a Mercedes enthusiast list (with a very large do-it-yourself contingent). What should I have expected? And also in fairness, I don't think that I ever specifically asked the question, do you guys think that I ought to buy one of these autos? All that said, I still do admire this type of vehicle and think that it is one of the few that - since I have to drive - I want to drive. I do enjoy it and look forward to a happy life with it. Next order of business: replace the starter. It did it's nothing trick just now. Brian 83 240D Marshall wrote: One that's quite well maintained, may well be worth $2000-5000 and one that's in close to showroom condition with less than 75kmi on it can sell for $10+k and MAY even be worth that. _ FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar get it now! http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/
Re: [MBZ] 1977 300D non turbo engine replacement Cross Roads
Brian said when I complain about it becoming a money pit, that there is nothing magic about these cars, they wear out and break too Yes Brian they do and if you are racking up 40 to 50K a year on them it reaches a real point of diminishing returns. I think I may minimize my loss on this, keep my low mileage 240D for another 200K (it has only 77K on it) and be happy Brian I guess a 30 year car is like a 100 year house. One side says it is a labor of love the other says it is a money pit. One thing for sure they both need alot of tlc and cash. Regards Tom - Original Message - From: Zoltan Finks [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2006 5:00 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] 1977 300D non turbo engine replacement Cross Roads You'll probably find more helpful posts than this, but I can tell you that I just had the engine replaced in a 240D. Engine cost me 900 and the complete RR job done by an indy - not me - cost 800 (plus a couple unexpected expenses). The engine I got usually sells for 1100. Was it worth it to us? Yes, but as I discover more potentially broken or breaking things on the car, I begin to question it. I wanted one of these Mercedes diesels and then I became convinced by reading this list (and got the general impression that these cars are about as wonderful as tits and beer) but I'm getting the general impression lately, when I complain about it becoming a money pit, that there is nothing magic about these cars, they wear out and break too, it's just that if properly cared for, the diesel engines can last quite a long time. Wish you the best with your quest. Brian 83 240D On 3/8/06, Tom Scordato [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A few questions for the group please 1. Can a 1977 123 chassis take/accept an 617.9xx non turbo engine with out major modifications from the years 1978-1980 to last non turbo year? 2. What are the estimated hours to pull out existing 617.9xx engine, remove things such as alternators, refer compressors, ect. and then put a used motor into the car al the while attaching the ancillary stuff I just said and install the new engine. These would be the hours by a professional mechanic. 3. I assume, new tranny hoses, new lube oil hoses ect. while I am at it. 4. If you could share any experience you have. Is there a link for doing this job? I have located some used engines that have been compression tested and are in the 100K miles to 150K mile ranges, some which have been sitting for some time. I am at a cross roads on the path of deciding if the car is worth it. I do not have the scope of supply to do the job myself where I am located in life right now. Thanks in advance Tom Scordato ___ http://www.striplin.net For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net ___ http://www.striplin.net For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net
Re: [MBZ] 1977 300D non turbo engine replacement Cross Roads
Marshall said If you can do it yourself or get a really cut rate, you can sometimes restore a car to service, but usually you are better off finding a replacement car that meets your needs Marshall you are right and I believe/Tom - Original Message - From: Marshall Booth [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2006 4:58 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] 1977 300D non turbo engine replacement Cross Roads Tom Scordato wrote: I have located some used engines that have been compression tested and are in the 100K miles to 150K mile ranges, some which have been sitting for some time. I am at a cross roads on the path of deciding if the car is worth it. I do not have the scope of supply to do the job myself where I am located in life right now. Thanks in advance Tom Scordato Mercedes made a few changes every year and there certainly MIGHT be changes that would make slipping an '80-81 engine into a '77 chassis a challenge (but I'm almost sure it can be done). I would guess that 8 hours MIGHT do it if the mechanic were VERY experienced AND had done the job several times, but there are a LOT of variables that could increase the time by a lot. Unless the the car is in WAY, WAY above average condition I wouldn't suggest it with a nearly 30 year old (or even a 20 year old) car. It has NOT been economically advantageous for me to pay someone a proper fee to do such jobs (I've done it anyway). If you can do it yourself or get a really cut rate, you can sometimes restore a car to service, but usually you are better off finding a replacement car that meets your needs. Marshall -- Marshall Booth (who doesn't respond to unsigned questions) der Dieseling Doktor [EMAIL PROTECTED] '87 300TD 182Kmi, '84 190D 2.2 229Kmi, '85 190D 2.0 161Kmi, '87 190D 2.5 turbo 237kmi ___ http://www.striplin.net For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net
Re: [MBZ] 1977 300D non turbo engine replacement Cross Roads
Brian said All that said, I still do admire this type of vehicle and think that it is one of the few that - since I have to drive - I want to drive. I do enjoy it and look forward to a happy life with it. As you should and will. Like I told my family who gives me grief that I do not or will not drive a rock climber: I will drive a Mercedes Diesel until I die, so get used to it. For me Brian I to bought a 185K 300D diesel which I did not have records on. But guess what I put 100K miles on it, had a lot of fun, worked on it, developed a love for a car I really enjoy driving. Luckily I bought a 1979 240D with low miles and I can start all over again! Thanks for your input and enjoy changing your starter out. I know on my 300D I had to remove the transmission dip stick tube but other that not too bad of a job. Kind of a reach around to get at the Allen bolts if I recall. Small stubby angle ratchet helps. Tom Scordato - Original Message - From: Brian Chase [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2006 8:02 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] 1977 300D non turbo engine replacement Cross Roads But would it be worth doing all the crack? Seriously though, jesting aside: One of the things that I was most surprised about when I began to investigate an older Mercedes was how affordable they were. Not having had any specific interest in them in the past, I always assumed that even an old one (as in 80s) would be way way out of the range of reasonable (like the range you gave for the showroom cond. one). And an even older one would be getting into true classic status and thus would be even further out of range. So basically one that is in the lower $2k range is one that, generally speaking, has not been maintained and the seller therefore knows it has problems? I see all the time through the list, Mercedes diesels for that sort of price (and that's about what mine cost) and the listers often tout picking them up. Guess what I have been missing all along is that it is understood that if you buy one at this price range, you will be looking - almost for certain - at several repairs. I have read things today on the list that I did not see in the six months or longer leading up to the purchase of my 240D. But in fairness, it is a Mercedes enthusiast list (with a very large do-it-yourself contingent). What should I have expected? And also in fairness, I don't think that I ever specifically asked the question, do you guys think that I ought to buy one of these autos? All that said, I still do admire this type of vehicle and think that it is one of the few that - since I have to drive - I want to drive. I do enjoy it and look forward to a happy life with it. Next order of business: replace the starter. It did it's nothing trick just now. Brian 83 240D Marshall wrote: One that's quite well maintained, may well be worth $2000-5000 and one that's in close to showroom condition with less than 75kmi on it can sell for $10+k and MAY even be worth that. _ FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar - get it now! http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ ___ http://www.striplin.net For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net
Re: [MBZ] 1977 300D non turbo engine replacement Cross Roads
There are good Mercedes and bad ones. It really depends on the prior maintenance. One thing is for sure once a car reaches a critical threshold of broken stuff it is junk. That threshold varies depending on what is wrong, and your DIY abilities and interests. But even a junk car, such as the Frankenheap, can be good transportation. There is nothing more expensive than a cheap Mercedes... ... IF you try to make it into what it is not. So long as the paint is good, it isn't rusty and the interior is in decent shape, and the engine isn't toast these cars can be brought back, and often for surprisingly little. It's those former items that are stunningly expensive to put right. Even the engine needn't be expensive IF you have a source of cheap engines, and IF you DIY. I am into that 240D for about $129 in repairs, and more than 40 hours of labor. (Way more, if I were really counting.) It is shaping up to be a nice little car, but it is limited by being a slug, and by the scrape on the side. But it is rust-free, the paint shines up, and the interior is pretty good. Just horribly lacking in competent maintenance recently, and in TLC. just had the engine replaced in a 240D. Engine cost me 900 and the complete RR job done by an indy - not me - cost 800 (plus a couple unexpected Or for me, assuming I waited for a U-Pull to cruise by, it would be something like $200. Quite a range, only you can tell where you are in the continuum and what your threshold of pain is. It'll cost you, one way or another. Money vs time... Today, I have time. A year ago, I had money. (Didn't spend it, though. I guess I was in training for this year!) the general impression that these cars are about as wonderful as tits and beer) but I'm getting the general impression lately, when I complain about it becoming a money pit, that there is nothing magic about these cars, they wear out and break too, it's just that if properly cared for, the diesel engines can last quite a long time. They _are_ about as wonderful as TB. But to quote any number of people, If it's got tits or tires it's going to give you trouble. It's a car, get used to it! It's not just that it has a long-lasting engine, the general fit finish and engineering of the cars is very good. One that's in good shape is a joy to drive, and its smile factor as general transportation beats anything that's not exotic, IMHO. I think they hold up much better than about anything else, over the span of decades. And they're easy to work on, and things tend to stay fixed if you do it right. -- Jim
Re: [MBZ] 1977 300D non turbo engine replacement Cross Roads
Thanks Tom. You are fortunate to have that 240 with those low miles. Mine, at 121k when purchased, seemed to be a great thing - just a baby - someone said. And it certainly would seem that your 300 was a good experience too. Actually I have already RR'd the starter and it was very simple. The only problem, in fact, was physically extracting the thing from the engine compartment. The first time I did it I struggled a good while but got it. The second time I failed to get it lifted out, even though I rotated it like I did before. Fortunately, the engine was shot and it was no problem to just go ahead and yank off a radiator hose to gain clearance. No AT dipstick tube to worry about for me. The only other problem with the starter RR will be telling wife that it needs it. Heck it'll get her broken in for when I have to say that we should get the suspension checked out. (on this vehicle that was mostly my idea and was supposed to be such a good thing for us to do) One way that I like to look at it is that one can either make car payments like 90% of the population does, OR drive something older with more character that will probably need periodic repairs. But compare these bills with car payments that are guaranteed to be coming in the mail. Another benefit of driving something older and more unique is that you are not likely to see half a dozen other drivers each day driving exactly what you have. In fact, if you do run into someone who is driving what you have, it is an occasion to smile and wave. Brian 83 240D On 3/8/06, Tom Scordato [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Brian said All that said, I still do admire this type of vehicle and think that it is one of the few that - since I have to drive - I want to drive. I do enjoy it and look forward to a happy life with it. As you should and will. Like I told my family who gives me grief that I do not or will not drive a rock climber: I will drive a Mercedes Diesel until I die, so get used to it. For me Brian I to bought a 185K 300D diesel which I did not have records on. But guess what I put 100K miles on it, had a lot of fun, worked on it, developed a love for a car I really enjoy driving. Luckily I bought a 1979 240D with low miles and I can start all over again! Thanks for your input and enjoy changing your starter out. I know on my 300D I had to remove the transmission dip stick tube but other that not too bad of a job. Kind of a reach around to get at the Allen bolts if I recall. Small stubby angle ratchet helps. Tom Scordato - Original Message - From: Brian Chase [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2006 8:02 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] 1977 300D non turbo engine replacement Cross Roads But would it be worth doing all the crack? Seriously though, jesting aside: One of the things that I was most surprised about when I began to investigate an older Mercedes was how affordable they were. Not having had any specific interest in them in the past, I always assumed that even an old one (as in 80s) would be way way out of the range of reasonable (like the range you gave for the showroom cond. one). And an even older one would be getting into true classic status and thus would be even further out of range. So basically one that is in the lower $2k range is one that, generally speaking, has not been maintained and the seller therefore knows it has problems? I see all the time through the list, Mercedes diesels for that sort of price (and that's about what mine cost) and the listers often tout picking them up. Guess what I have been missing all along is that it is understood that if you buy one at this price range, you will be looking - almost for certain - at several repairs. I have read things today on the list that I did not see in the six months or longer leading up to the purchase of my 240D. But in fairness, it is a Mercedes enthusiast list (with a very large do-it-yourself contingent). What should I have expected? And also in fairness, I don't think that I ever specifically asked the question, do you guys think that I ought to buy one of these autos? All that said, I still do admire this type of vehicle and think that it is one of the few that - since I have to drive - I want to drive. I do enjoy it and look forward to a happy life with it. Next order of business: replace the starter. It did it's nothing trick just now. Brian 83 240D Marshall wrote: One that's quite well maintained, may well be worth $2000-5000 and one that's in close to showroom condition with less than 75kmi on it can sell for $10+k and MAY even be worth that. _ FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar - get it now! http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01
Re: [MBZ] 1977 300D non turbo engine replacement Cross Roads
Brian Chase wrote: So basically one that is in the lower $2k range is one that, generally speaking, has not been maintained and the seller therefore knows it has problems? You seem to imagine that the prices being asked and given actually correlate with the car's condition. Sometimes they do, but often cars sell for MUCH more or less than logic would suggest. Who's to say that the seller knows anything about the value of the car to anyone but him/herself? You need to be able to reliably determine the condition of the car and then pay no more than it's worth TO YOU. Then you're in charge. If you don't have the skill and knowledge to do that, the risk is very great. Marshall -- Marshall Booth (who doesn't respond to unsigned questions) der Dieseling Doktor [EMAIL PROTECTED] '87 300TD 182Kmi, '84 190D 2.2 229Kmi, '85 190D 2.0 161Kmi, '87 190D 2.5 turbo 237kmi
Re: [MBZ] 1977 300D non turbo engine replacement Cross Roads
Your new acqusition sounds a lot like mine - the paint that shines up (though the blemishes up close are depressing) the good interior, the no rust, even the scrape on the side. Your summary of WHY these autos are so good is useful. That's the type of pertinent answer I was looking for - as opposed to Mercedes' are great, don't you know that? Brian 83 240D Jim wrote: There is nothing more expensive than a cheap Mercedes... ... IF you try to make it into what it is not. So long as the paint is good, it isn't rusty and the interior is in decent shape, and the engine isn't toast these cars can be brought back, and often for surprisingly little. It's those former items that are stunningly expensive to put right. Even the engine needn't be expensive IF you have a source of cheap engines, and IF you DIY. the general impression that these cars are about as wonderful as tits and beer) but I'm getting the general impression lately, when I complain about it becoming a money pit, that there is nothing magic about these cars, they wear out and break too, it's just that if properly cared for, the diesel engines can last quite a long time. They _are_ about as wonderful as TB. But to quote any number of people, If it's got tits or tires it's going to give you trouble. It's a car, get used to it! It's not just that it has a long-lasting engine, the general fit finish and engineering of the cars is very good. One that's in good shape is a joy to drive, and its smile factor as general transportation beats anything that's not exotic, IMHO. I think they hold up much better than about anything else, over the span of decades. And they're easy to work on, and things tend to stay fixed if you do it right. -- Jim ___ http://www.striplin.net For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net
Re: [MBZ] 1977 300D non turbo engine replacement Cross Roads
As Herr Doktor says is true. I would like to point out that it is a lot cheaper to risk making a mistake with a kaleb car or a $2500 car or even a $5000 car than to make a mistake with a collectable car that sells in the 30k to 500k range or more. I have made a couple of mistakes with $1000 cars, but it didn't kill me and I am not crying over it. I figure it is all tuition we pay for the education. Loren At 08:24 PM 3/8/2006, you wrote: Brian Chase wrote: So basically one that is in the lower $2k range is one that, generally speaking, has not been maintained and the seller therefore knows it has problems? You seem to imagine that the prices being asked and given actually correlate with the car's condition. Sometimes they do, but often cars sell for MUCH more or less than logic would suggest. Who's to say that the seller knows anything about the value of the car to anyone but him/herself? You need to be able to reliably determine the condition of the car and then pay no more than it's worth TO YOU. Then you're in charge. If you don't have the skill and knowledge to do that, the risk is very great. Marshall -- Marshall Booth (who doesn't respond to unsigned questions) der Dieseling Doktor [EMAIL PROTECTED] '87 300TD 182Kmi, '84 190D 2.2 229Kmi, '85 190D 2.0 161Kmi, '87 190D 2.5 turbo 237kmi ___ http://www.striplin.net For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net
Re: [MBZ] 1977 300D non turbo engine replacement Cross Roads
Tom, I like and agree with your philosophy-I will always drive a MB diesel for the rest of my life-I have two sitting in the driveway right now. Dwight Giles, Jr 1979 240D auto, 250K + miles 1990 300D 2.5t, 129K miles Wickford, RI -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom Scordato Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2006 8:32 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] 1977 300D non turbo engine replacement Cross Roads Brian said All that said, I still do admire this type of vehicle and think that it is one of the few that - since I have to drive - I want to drive. I do enjoy it and look forward to a happy life with it. As you should and will. Like I told my family who gives me grief that I do not or will not drive a rock climber: I will drive a Mercedes Diesel until I die, so get used to it. For me Brian I to bought a 185K 300D diesel which I did not have records on. But guess what I put 100K miles on it, had a lot of fun, worked on it, developed a love for a car I really enjoy driving. Luckily I bought a 1979 240D with low miles and I can start all over again! Thanks for your input and enjoy changing your starter out. I know on my 300D I had to remove the transmission dip stick tube but other that not too bad of a job. Kind of a reach around to get at the Allen bolts if I recall. Small stubby angle ratchet helps. Tom Scordato - Original Message - From: Brian Chase [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2006 8:02 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] 1977 300D non turbo engine replacement Cross Roads But would it be worth doing all the crack? Seriously though, jesting aside: One of the things that I was most surprised about when I began to investigate an older Mercedes was how affordable they were. Not having had any specific interest in them in the past, I always assumed that even an old one (as in 80s) would be way way out of the range of reasonable (like the range you gave for the showroom cond. one). And an even older one would be getting into true classic status and thus would be even further out of range. So basically one that is in the lower $2k range is one that, generally speaking, has not been maintained and the seller therefore knows it has problems? I see all the time through the list, Mercedes diesels for that sort of price (and that's about what mine cost) and the listers often tout picking them up. Guess what I have been missing all along is that it is understood that if you buy one at this price range, you will be looking - almost for certain - at several repairs. I have read things today on the list that I did not see in the six months or longer leading up to the purchase of my 240D. But in fairness, it is a Mercedes enthusiast list (with a very large do-it-yourself contingent). What should I have expected? And also in fairness, I don't think that I ever specifically asked the question, do you guys think that I ought to buy one of these autos? All that said, I still do admire this type of vehicle and think that it is one of the few that - since I have to drive - I want to drive. I do enjoy it and look forward to a happy life with it. Next order of business: replace the starter. It did it's nothing trick just now. Brian 83 240D Marshall wrote: One that's quite well maintained, may well be worth $2000-5000 and one that's in close to showroom condition with less than 75kmi on it can sell for $10+k and MAY even be worth that. _ FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar - get it now! http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ ___ http://www.striplin.net For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net ___ http://www.striplin.net For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net
Re: [MBZ] 1977 300D non turbo engine replacement Cross Roads
Of course not. Let me try to phrase things better: What DOES explain the great variance in asking price of these vehicles? Let's remove the variable of folks being on crack for the moment. I mean, if some people ask 8 or 10 thousand for their 123, what's stopping everybody from doing so? There is something there that doesn't seem congruous. When my wife and I started investigating buying a diesel Mercedes, we were struck by this phenomenon. Just look at AutoTrader.com and you'll see that at the top of the list are the attrociously priced ones, then you find the reasonably priced ones, then the cheapos at the bottom. But the divide between the attrocious ones and the reasonable ones shows that there are two types of sellers out there. THIS is the situation that I have wondered about. I've taken to assuming that those asking such high prices are playing off the name badge Mercedes. And those who ask more reasonable prices are being more realistic. If it wasn't for the down-to-earth info. on this list, I would've believed the attrocious sellers - afterall it's a Mercedes! But I was surprised to hear, from the Doktor, that some of those $10k prices might actually be warranted. Hope this clears up what I was getting at when I said that some sellers ask much lower prices, and the only explanation that I could come up with is that there are such obvious problems with the vehicle that they know they can't realistically ask too much. Brian Marshall wrote: You seem to imagine that the prices being asked and given actually correlate with the car's condition. On 3/8/06, Marshall Booth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Brian Chase wrote: So basically one that is in the lower $2k range is one that, generally speaking, has not been maintained and the seller therefore knows it has problems? You seem to imagine that the prices being asked and given actually correlate with the car's condition. Sometimes they do, but often cars sell for MUCH more or less than logic would suggest. Who's to say that the seller knows anything about the value of the car to anyone but him/herself? You need to be able to reliably determine the condition of the car and then pay no more than it's worth TO YOU. Then you're in charge. If you don't have the skill and knowledge to do that, the risk is very great. Marshall -- Marshall Booth (who doesn't respond to unsigned questions) der Dieseling Doktor [EMAIL PROTECTED] '87 300TD 182Kmi, '84 190D 2.2 229Kmi, '85 190D 2.0 161Kmi, '87 190D 2.5 turbo 237kmi ___ http://www.striplin.net For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net
Re: [MBZ] 1977 300D non turbo engine replacement Cross Roads
I've bought five MB diesels in the last four years with less total money than I paid for a used Camry. I paid too much for two of them, got very good deals on two others and one was just about right. The SDL that I paid much too much for has costs me the most and is still not in good shape. The best deal has costs very little, so what I paid did not match what I got. BTW, the 240D manual can hang in there in any traffic, bugs die on the windshield all the time. I was pleasantly surprised at that. So far the SDLs are my choice, these are awesome cars and I'll keep both of them. I know, I don't need this many cars and I have a reduction plan in mind. Harry Watkins Newton, MS 86 SDL Silver 85 300D Euro 86 SDL Gold 81 240D manual trans 85 TD As Herr Doktor says is true. I would like to point out that it is a lot cheaper to risk making a mistake with a kaleb car or a $2500 car or even a $5000 car than to make a mistake with a collectable car that sells in the 30k to 500k range or more. I have made a couple of mistakes with $1000 cars, but it didn't kill me and I am not crying over it. I figure it is all tuition we pay for the education. Loren
Re: [MBZ] 1977 300D non turbo engine replacement Cross Roads
On Mar 8, 2006, at 9:05 PM, Zoltan Finks wrote: Actually I have already RR'd the starter and it was very simple. The only problem, in fact, was physically extracting the thing from the engine compartment. The first time I did it I struggled a good while but got it. The second time I failed to get it lifted out, even though I rotated it like I did before. Fortunately, the engine was shot and it was no problem to just go ahead and yank off a radiator hose to gain clearance. No AT dipstick tube to worry about for me. They come out the bottom, moving the steering linkage to the right position gives it enough room. It has to be flipped and spun but they come out easily. Johnny B. I Mac Therefore I am
Re: [MBZ] 1977 300D non turbo engine replacement Cross Roads
On Mar 8, 2006, at 9:59 PM, Zoltan Finks wrote: Hope this clears up what I was getting at when I said that some sellers ask much lower prices, and the only explanation that I could come up with is that there are such obvious problems with the vehicle that they know they can't realistically ask too much. Brian Realistically most people really are not aware of the actual value of their vehicles. I tend to get great deals but I have been involved with cars all my life and a professional mechanic for more than 30 years. People give me cars that get put to use or go to parts. Case in point: my new 1986 190D 2.5 Euro. I paid $1200 for an original owner car with 62,000mi that needed a paint job and some inexpensive stuff. I have $2600 into it and it is near perfect. You really have to know what you're doing when you buy and repair the car or you stand to have a costly bad experience. Johnny B. I Mac Therefore I am
Re: [MBZ] 1977 300D non turbo engine replacement Cross Roads
in good shape. The best deal has costs very little, so what I paid did not match what I got. The best deal is not usually the best car, in any but perhaps the purely monetary sense. My best deal is probably the Frankenheap. But it's not a datemobile, to say the least! -- Jim
Re: [MBZ] 1977 300D non turbo engine replacement Cross Roads
But I was surprised to hear, from the Doktor, that some of those $10k prices might actually be warranted. Not really if you stop to think about, with maybe a parts catalog for reference. If you love such a car, and want it to be in near-new condition you can buy one for $10k (say), or spend $12k-20k (if not more) making one yourself. Auto restorers see this all the time. The balancing act is to determine what you can be happy with, matching your finances, abilities, and interests against what is out there, and then buy it. What _I'm_ looking for is radically different than the no-the-ashtray-is-dirty brigade. -- Jim
Re: [MBZ] 1977 300D non turbo engine replacement Cross Roads
Dwight said Tom, I like and agree with your philosophy-I will always drive a MB diesel for the rest of my life-I have two sitting in the driveway right now Dwight do tell about the 1990. maybe it is time for me to trade up from the 123 chassis. The vacuum door locks give me real grief on all those. I do by the way have a 1979 240D too. I call it the Flip Maker As I drive up and accelerate (0-60 forever) up the highway on ramps I get folks flipping me the bird all the time, my pedals is to the metal. People are very full of hate and discontent in this the freest country in the world. Why is that so? It is now my daily driver and I love it, 77K now and growing by 50K a year. thanks Dwight Tom Scordato - Original Message - From: Dwight E. Giles, Jr [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'Mercedes Discussion List' [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2006 9:43 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] 1977 300D non turbo engine replacement Cross Roads Tom, I like and agree with your philosophy-I will always drive a MB diesel for the rest of my life-I have two sitting in the driveway right now. Dwight Giles, Jr 1979 240D auto, 250K + miles 1990 300D 2.5t, 129K miles Wickford, RI -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom Scordato Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2006 8:32 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] 1977 300D non turbo engine replacement Cross Roads Brian said All that said, I still do admire this type of vehicle and think that it is one of the few that - since I have to drive - I want to drive. I do enjoy it and look forward to a happy life with it. As you should and will. Like I told my family who gives me grief that I do not or will not drive a rock climber: I will drive a Mercedes Diesel until I die, so get used to it. For me Brian I to bought a 185K 300D diesel which I did not have records on. But guess what I put 100K miles on it, had a lot of fun, worked on it, developed a love for a car I really enjoy driving. Luckily I bought a 1979 240D with low miles and I can start all over again! Thanks for your input and enjoy changing your starter out. I know on my 300D I had to remove the transmission dip stick tube but other that not too bad of a job. Kind of a reach around to get at the Allen bolts if I recall. Small stubby angle ratchet helps. Tom Scordato - Original Message - From: Brian Chase [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2006 8:02 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] 1977 300D non turbo engine replacement Cross Roads But would it be worth doing all the crack? Seriously though, jesting aside: One of the things that I was most surprised about when I began to investigate an older Mercedes was how affordable they were. Not having had any specific interest in them in the past, I always assumed that even an old one (as in 80s) would be way way out of the range of reasonable (like the range you gave for the showroom cond. one). And an even older one would be getting into true classic status and thus would be even further out of range. So basically one that is in the lower $2k range is one that, generally speaking, has not been maintained and the seller therefore knows it has problems? I see all the time through the list, Mercedes diesels for that sort of price (and that's about what mine cost) and the listers often tout picking them up. Guess what I have been missing all along is that it is understood that if you buy one at this price range, you will be looking - almost for certain - at several repairs. I have read things today on the list that I did not see in the six months or longer leading up to the purchase of my 240D. But in fairness, it is a Mercedes enthusiast list (with a very large do-it-yourself contingent). What should I have expected? And also in fairness, I don't think that I ever specifically asked the question, do you guys think that I ought to buy one of these autos? All that said, I still do admire this type of vehicle and think that it is one of the few that - since I have to drive - I want to drive. I do enjoy it and look forward to a happy life with it. Next order of business: replace the starter. It did it's nothing trick just now. Brian 83 240D Marshall wrote: One that's quite well maintained, may well be worth $2000-5000 and one that's in close to showroom condition with less than 75kmi on it can sell for $10+k and MAY even be worth that. _ FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar - get it now! http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ ___ http://www.striplin.net For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED
Re: [MBZ] 1977 300D non turbo engine replacement Cross Roads
Johnny B said You really have to know what you're doing when you buy and repair the car or you stand to have a costly bad experience True and it helps more than can be valued to have a group list like this to help you. I personally value the opinions and experience of this group more than words can say. I have often blown off advise of some professionals due to the information I have gotten form this list, thanks. Regards Tom Scordato - Original Message - From: John Berryman [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2006 10:30 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] 1977 300D non turbo engine replacement Cross Roads On Mar 8, 2006, at 9:59 PM, Zoltan Finks wrote: Hope this clears up what I was getting at when I said that some sellers ask much lower prices, and the only explanation that I could come up with is that there are such obvious problems with the vehicle that they know they can't realistically ask too much. Brian Realistically most people really are not aware of the actual value of their vehicles. I tend to get great deals but I have been involved with cars all my life and a professional mechanic for more than 30 years. People give me cars that get put to use or go to parts. Case in point: my new 1986 190D 2.5 Euro. I paid $1200 for an original owner car with 62,000mi that needed a paint job and some inexpensive stuff. I have $2600 into it and it is near perfect. You really have to know what you're doing when you buy and repair the car or you stand to have a costly bad experience. Johnny B. I Mac Therefore I am ___ http://www.striplin.net For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net
Re: [MBZ] 1977 300D non turbo engine replacement Cross Roads
Tom, I have swaped engines on a couple of occasions at the 240D level. The major issues you will run into will be the glow system and some issues with which power steering pumps, pulleys, harmonic balancers, etc fit what cars. If you have A/C that can also be an issue. What it amounts to is that there are a lot of little things that can be handled in the amateur garage by a few beers and some friends. In a professional shop it becomes a big issue because all the small stuff costs the same $$ as the big stuff per hour. I would take a serious look at rebuilding the engine you have unless it has a hole in the crankcase or has been significantly abused.. as in run out of oil. I rebuilt my last one, a 617.912, for a few hundred in parts as opposed to replacing it. I replaced all rings, one piston, all lower bearings, all seals, gaskets. I did not rebuild the head as all the valve seats were flawless. Time was probably 20 hours. One of the beauties of these engines is that they have sleeved cylinders so you dont have to be concerned with boring. Just replace em. Another great feature is that the crank journals are hardened to a level unmatched in almost any other automotive realm. My engine with ~450K measured at factory specs on the journals during rebuild, I used standard inserts! Richard --- Tom Scordato [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A few questions for the group please 1. Can a 1977 123 chassis take/accept an 617.9xx non turbo engine with out major modifications from the years 1978-1980 to last non turbo year? 2. What are the estimated hours to pull out existing 617.9xx engine, remove things such as alternators, refer compressors, ect. and then put a used motor into the car al the while attaching the ancillary stuff I just said and install the new engine. These would be the hours by a professional mechanic. 3. I assume, new tranny hoses, new lube oil hoses ect. while I am at it. 4. If you could share any experience you have. Is there a link for doing this job? I have located some used engines that have been compression tested and are in the 100K miles to 150K mile ranges, some which have been sitting for some time. I am at a cross roads on the path of deciding if the car is worth it. I do not have the scope of supply to do the job myself where I am located in life right now. Thanks in advance Tom Scordato ___ http://www.striplin.net For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: [MBZ] 1977 300D non turbo engine replacement Cross Roads
123 chassis. The vacuum door locks give me real grief on all those. I do by With some ingenuity, the electric-pump system of later cars (124/126/201) could be fitted to your 123. On the whole that system is a lot more reliable. It would be a labor of love, for a car that otherwise pleased you quite well. At the U-Pull, the stuff would run maybe $50 or so for everything. The rest would be minor fabrication and running the wiring. the way have a 1979 240D too. I call it the Flip Maker As I drive up and accelerate (0-60 forever) up the highway on ramps I get folks flipping me the bird all the time, my pedal is to the metal. Bumper sticker: It _is_ floored! -- Jim
Re: [MBZ] 1977 300D non turbo engine replacement Cross Roads
On Mar 8, 2006, at 11:03 PM, Jim Cathey wrote: My best deal is probably the Frankenheap. But it's not a datemobile, to say the least! My best MB deal has to be The $100 Car 1979 300SD w/ 134,000mi. It really just needed to be cleaned up and driven after some adjustments and I had to put the GP wire connector back together on the relay end. It has gone over 50,000mi since we had it and I recently treated it to a new set of Bilsteins and tires. It is getting a new starter and a pair of rebuilt front calipers soon. Oh, I almost forgot, I need to replace/repair the radiator too. I will give my newest acquisition (86 190D Euro w/65,000mi) to my wife and drive the 116. Unless of course she decides that she prefers the 300SD. Johnny B. I Mac Therefore I am
Re: [MBZ] 1977 300D non turbo engine replacement Cross Roads
'Tom, You asked: why so hateful? I think it's human nature to act like the kids in line at school, pushing and shoving. Why so discontent? Also human nature, but IMHO, bolstered by TV. Someone has said that TV only exists in order to show commercials, and commercials ony exist to make us discontent. The same could probably be said of the print media and other. Tom wrote: People are very full of hate and discontent in this the freest country in the world. Why is that so? I can and often do think of a few more effective stickers than that for my loyal tailgaiters. Only problem is, I don't want them on there at all times. I almost want to make some magnetic ones to use on occasions when I know that I will encounter the most aggression i.e. commuting to and from the job. Jim wrote: Bumper sticker: It _is_ floored! Tom wrote: I call it the Flip Maker As I drive up and accelerate (0-60 forever) up the highway on ramps I get folks flipping me the bird all the time, my pedals is to the metal.
Re: [MBZ] 1977 300D non turbo engine replacement Cross Roads
It is basic ignorance. Most people out there have no idea that your old diesel can't go any faster. For whatever reason, people behind the wheel often become irritated way too easy. Traffic is frustrating at times and people have no patience. They just want you out of their way now. Talk to them when they are not behind the wheel and they will be real nice folks. Put them in the car and they become Attila the Hun. Not sure why but it happens. Remember a time a few years back when I was driving my old Suburban. I crossed a divided street to the median and had to wait for a few cars going by before I could cross the second set of lanes. A lady pulls up to the Suburban in a fancy new black Chrysler product of some sort and rolls down the window and starts waving her arm and giving me the finger and yelling at me to get out of the way. I was blocking the one lane but she could have changed lanes and gone around me. She chose not to. She wanted to release some pent up energy I guess. I rolled down my window and my wife started to get upset as she thought I was going to yell back or worse. I called out have a nice day and I thought the lady in the Chrysler was going to have a stroke right there. Good thing the traffic let up and I was able to pull away before she figured out what to do next. Still glad I didn't swear at her (which I will admit I have been known to do on occasion when in a bad mood). Randy B -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Zoltan Finks Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 3:09 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] 1977 300D non turbo engine replacement Cross Roads 'Tom, You asked: why so hateful? I think it's human nature to act like the kids in line at school, pushing and shoving. Why so discontent? Also human nature, but IMHO, bolstered by TV. Someone has said that TV only exists in order to show commercials, and commercials ony exist to make us discontent. The same could probably be said of the print media and other. Tom wrote: People are very full of hate and discontent in this the freest country in the world. Why is that so? I can and often do think of a few more effective stickers than that for my loyal tailgaiters. Only problem is, I don't want them on there at all times. I almost want to make some magnetic ones to use on occasions when I know that I will encounter the most aggression i.e. commuting to and from the job. Jim wrote: Bumper sticker: It _is_ floored! Tom wrote: I call it the Flip Maker As I drive up and accelerate (0-60 forever) up the highway on ramps I get folks flipping me the bird all the time, my pedals is to the metal. ___ http://www.striplin.net For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net
Re: [MBZ] 1977 300D non turbo engine replacement Cross Roads
You hit it right on. I began to realize this a few years back when I'd drive to the dog park around rush hour because that's when my sweetheart went there. I would just about every day I would encounter one or two drivers who would get aggressive with me, sometimes worse than others. But once at the dog park I'd often get into a nice interesting conversation with a perfect stranger. And I would think, you know, these people that I just had this nice experience with are no different than those red-faced, gesturning, furious ones on the road. It's just the act of driving that causes the problem. I have a saying: Driving does terrible things to people. May sound dramatic, but I find it to be true. Brian Randy wrote: They just want you out of their way now. Talk to them when they are not behind the wheel and they will be real nice folks. Put them in the car and they become Attila the Hun. Not sure why but it happens.
Re: [MBZ] 1977 300D non turbo engine replacement Cross Roads
Tom Scordato wrote: I have located some used engines that have been compression tested and are in the 100K miles to 150K mile ranges, some which have been sitting for some time. I am at a cross roads on the path of deciding if the car is worth it. I do not have the scope of supply to do the job myself where I am located in life right now. Thanks in advance Tom Scordato Mercedes made a few changes every year and there certainly MIGHT be changes that would make slipping an '80-81 engine into a '77 chassis a challenge (but I'm almost sure it can be done). I would guess that 8 hours MIGHT do it if the mechanic were VERY experienced AND had done the job several times, but there are a LOT of variables that could increase the time by a lot. Unless the the car is in WAY, WAY above average condition I wouldn't suggest it with a nearly 30 year old (or even a 20 year old) car. It has NOT been economically advantageous for me to pay someone a proper fee to do such jobs (I've done it anyway). If you can do it yourself or get a really cut rate, you can sometimes restore a car to service, but usually you are better off finding a replacement car that meets your needs. Marshall -- Marshall Booth (who doesn't respond to unsigned questions) der Dieseling Doktor [EMAIL PROTECTED] '87 300TD 182Kmi, '84 190D 2.2 229Kmi, '85 190D 2.0 161Kmi, '87 190D 2.5 turbo 237kmi
Re: [MBZ] 1977 300D non turbo engine replacement Cross Roads
You'll probably find more helpful posts than this, but I can tell you that I just had the engine replaced in a 240D. Engine cost me 900 and the complete RR job done by an indy - not me - cost 800 (plus a couple unexpected expenses). The engine I got usually sells for 1100. Was it worth it to us? Yes, but as I discover more potentially broken or breaking things on the car, I begin to question it. I wanted one of these Mercedes diesels and then I became convinced by reading this list (and got the general impression that these cars are about as wonderful as tits and beer) but I'm getting the general impression lately, when I complain about it becoming a money pit, that there is nothing magic about these cars, they wear out and break too, it's just that if properly cared for, the diesel engines can last quite a long time. Wish you the best with your quest. Brian 83 240D On 3/8/06, Tom Scordato [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A few questions for the group please 1. Can a 1977 123 chassis take/accept an 617.9xx non turbo engine with out major modifications from the years 1978-1980 to last non turbo year? 2. What are the estimated hours to pull out existing 617.9xx engine, remove things such as alternators, refer compressors, ect. and then put a used motor into the car al the while attaching the ancillary stuff I just said and install the new engine. These would be the hours by a professional mechanic. 3. I assume, new tranny hoses, new lube oil hoses ect. while I am at it. 4. If you could share any experience you have. Is there a link for doing this job? I have located some used engines that have been compression tested and are in the 100K miles to 150K mile ranges, some which have been sitting for some time. I am at a cross roads on the path of deciding if the car is worth it. I do not have the scope of supply to do the job myself where I am located in life right now. Thanks in advance Tom Scordato ___ http://www.striplin.net For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net
Re: [MBZ] 1977 300D non turbo engine replacement Cross Roads
You'll have to change the exhaust too. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom Scordato Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2006 4:03 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: [MBZ] 1977 300D non turbo engine replacement Cross Roads A few questions for the group please 1. Can a 1977 123 chassis take/accept an 617.9xx non turbo engine with out major modifications from the years 1978-1980 to last non turbo year? 2. What are the estimated hours to pull out existing 617.9xx engine, remove things such as alternators, refer compressors, ect. and then put a used motor into the car al the while attaching the ancillary stuff I just said and install the new engine. These would be the hours by a professional mechanic. 3. I assume, new tranny hoses, new lube oil hoses ect. while I am at it. 4. If you could share any experience you have. Is there a link for doing this job? I have located some used engines that have been compression tested and are in the 100K miles to 150K mile ranges, some which have been sitting for some time. I am at a cross roads on the path of deciding if the car is worth it. I do not have the scope of supply to do the job myself where I am located in life right now. Thanks in advance Tom Scordato ___ http://www.striplin.net For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net
Re: [MBZ] 1977 300D non turbo engine replacement Cross Roads
There are good Mercedes and bad ones. It really depends on the prior maintenance. One thing is for sure once a car reaches a critical threshold of broken stuff it is junk. There were a lot of W123 and W126 made, so restoring one is a labor of love most likely not economically beneficial. I do love the W126 and have a three of them. One is on the junk scale of things and would cost more in parts to fix than buying a new one. The other two are my babies and I make an effort to keep the maintenance up such they do not become junk. However economically I would say that I would have been better with other cars, but I place a high value on the ride of the W126. Thus I have a love for the W126 that compares to my love for beer and tits. I would say that unless you have some magical love for the 300D I would buy a newer car and save the head ache. If you do replace engine, then put a turbo one in it. There is nothing more expensive than a cheap Mercedes. Trampas -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Zoltan Finks Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2006 5:01 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] 1977 300D non turbo engine replacement Cross Roads You'll probably find more helpful posts than this, but I can tell you that I just had the engine replaced in a 240D. Engine cost me 900 and the complete RR job done by an indy - not me - cost 800 (plus a couple unexpected expenses). The engine I got usually sells for 1100. Was it worth it to us? Yes, but as I discover more potentially broken or breaking things on the car, I begin to question it. I wanted one of these Mercedes diesels and then I became convinced by reading this list (and got the general impression that these cars are about as wonderful as tits and beer) but I'm getting the general impression lately, when I complain about it becoming a money pit, that there is nothing magic about these cars, they wear out and break too, it's just that if properly cared for, the diesel engines can last quite a long time. Wish you the best with your quest. Brian 83 240D On 3/8/06, Tom Scordato [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A few questions for the group please 1. Can a 1977 123 chassis take/accept an 617.9xx non turbo engine with out major modifications from the years 1978-1980 to last non turbo year? 2. What are the estimated hours to pull out existing 617.9xx engine, remove things such as alternators, refer compressors, ect. and then put a used motor into the car al the while attaching the ancillary stuff I just said and install the new engine. These would be the hours by a professional mechanic. 3. I assume, new tranny hoses, new lube oil hoses ect. while I am at it. 4. If you could share any experience you have. Is there a link for doing this job? I have located some used engines that have been compression tested and are in the 100K miles to 150K mile ranges, some which have been sitting for some time. I am at a cross roads on the path of deciding if the car is worth it. I do not have the scope of supply to do the job myself where I am located in life right now. Thanks in advance Tom Scordato ___ http://www.striplin.net For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net ___ http://www.striplin.net For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net
Re: [MBZ] 1977 300D non turbo engine replacement Cross Roads
Zoltan Finks wrote: You'll probably find more helpful posts than this, but I can tell you that I just had the engine replaced in a 240D. Engine cost me 900 and the complete RR job done by an indy - not me - cost 800 (plus a couple unexpected expenses). The engine I got usually sells for 1100. Was it worth it to us? Yes, but as I discover more potentially broken or breaking things on the car, I begin to question it. I wanted one of these Mercedes diesels and then I became convinced by reading this list (and got the general impression that these cars are about as wonderful as tits and beer) but I'm getting the general impression lately, when I complain about it becoming a money pit, that there is nothing magic about these cars, they wear out and break too, it's just that if properly cared for, the diesel engines can last quite a long time. The problem is seldom the car, but the condition of the car! A 20+ year old Mercedes that has seen average maintenance is usually reduced to little more than junk. It's NOT the quality of the car, but the quality of the maintenance. One that's quite well maintained, may well be worth $2000-5000 and one that's in close to showroom condition with less than 75kmi on it can sell for $10+k and MAY even be worth that. It's entirely a matter of an accurate and reliable measure of condition. Without such a reliable measurement, the risk is very high. The cost of major repairs on a Mercedes (required infrequently, but if needed - they ARE REQUIRED) can be very high and there are few inexpensive make do fixes that are satisfactory. There is NOTHING more expensive than a cheap Mercedes that's been poorly maintained. Marshall -- Marshall Booth (who doesn't respond to unsigned questions) der Dieseling Doktor [EMAIL PROTECTED] '87 300TD 182Kmi, '84 190D 2.2 229Kmi, '85 190D 2.0 161Kmi, '87 190D 2.5 turbo 237kmi
Re: [MBZ] 1977 300D non turbo engine replacement Cross Roads
Old cars are old cars. It really will not matter if it is a Ford or a Mercedes. Sooner or later things have to be repaired or replaced. The cost of repairing the Mercedes is likely to be higher than the Ford. If you want to drive a Mercedes but cannot or will not afford a new one then you have to pay the price by either doing the work yourself or hiring someone to do it. I spent a small fortune repairing an old Ford Ltd for my elder son to drive a few years ago. It was an error on my part in the sense that I invested more in it than it was worth, but I had fun doing the work. The car still runs well and doesn't look too bad but I can't sell it for diddly as no one really wants an old rear drive American V8 right now with the price of gas. I could get rid of it but I would not get much for my efforts. So, I still have it. My younger son drove it last summer and we may put plates on it again this year. I think I probably would be happier if I had bought an old Mercedes at that time and worked on it instead. The Ford was real cheap (cause it needed a motor rebuild) and acquired from a friend. I have since bought an old Mercedes and I hope that I do not have a lot of bad luck with it but I also know that it is 30 years old and has not been waiting on a shelf for me for all that time. It has been driven and used. It runs pretty good and it looks pretty good. For 30 years old and 30 year old technology, I am impressed. I plan to drive it all summer and put it away for all winter. I really hope I can do that for another 20 years but who knows?? Old Mercedes are not magical and you really have to judge for yourself whether it is going to be worth your while to invest in it. Only you will know somewhere down the road if it was the right decision. I think you sort of need to be the kind of guy who still likes wooden boats too. A wooden boat is not practical compared to the new fibreglass or aluminum one and scraping and varnishing may not be your idea of fun but a wooden boat has a beauty that isn't really matched by fibreglass. That is how I feel about the Mercedes. It really has an appeal to me and I hope that I can actually pass it on to someone someday in equal or better condition than when I got it despite having used it for my purposes. I am not a believer in using things up when it comes to mechanical stuff. I have a friend who has a 74 MB 240D. It is junk and rusty and he has had terrible luck. He has put an engine and 2 transmissions in and he does not do his own work. He has so much invested in it that he cannot quit. It looks awful but it runs and rides nice and he loves it. He has had a 220D and a 914 Porsche in the past and just loves his old rolling wrecks. He had a couple of new Pontiacs that were junk and he cannot say enough bad things about them. The Porsche got so rusty it was not safe to drive. The 220 rusted away as well but they both still ran and he still talks about them fondly. He is the sort of fellow who spends his spare money on art and wine and not on new glitzy cars. You need to be that sort to really appreciate an OLD Benz. Randy B -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Zoltan Finks Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2006 4:01 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] 1977 300D non turbo engine replacement Cross Roads You'll probably find more helpful posts than this, but I can tell you that I just had the engine replaced in a 240D. Engine cost me 900 and the complete RR job done by an indy - not me - cost 800 (plus a couple unexpected expenses). The engine I got usually sells for 1100. Was it worth it to us? Yes, but as I discover more potentially broken or breaking things on the car, I begin to question it. I wanted one of these Mercedes diesels and then I became convinced by reading this list (and got the general impression that these cars are about as wonderful as tits and beer) but I'm getting the general impression lately, when I complain about it becoming a money pit, that there is nothing magic about these cars, they wear out and break too, it's just that if properly cared for, the diesel engines can last quite a long time. Wish you the best with your quest. Brian 83 240D
