Re: [MBZ] 1984 300D - won't start when hot.
Yes, WVO can vary from 0.5% to 3-5% acidity in the testing I have done. Generally the thicker the WVO, the higher the acidity, and the longer the WVO was used. Luther KB5QHUForest Park, IL '98 ML320 Max (166,xxx mi) On 5/28/2013 9:37 PM, G Mann wrote: Little discussed it seems among the WVO crowd, but Vegetable oil used in cooking becomes quite acidic. Many who use it, pay more attention to things like filtering out the dead french fries and plastic fork bits, settling and removing water, but little attention is given to the acid balance. Food when cooked gives off water and chemicals which combine to make acids. The very close tolerance Injection Pump parts require smooth surface finish to achieve that close tolerance. Acid bath of the WVO accelerates the erosion of those critical surface parts which degrades IP performance. The failure path then compounds as surface condition further degrades. The lure of cheap fuel overwhelms the need to titrate each batch of WVO and neutralize the acid, filter, and de-water. WVO is good fuel, but it ain't free. Pay up front.. or pay later with component replacement. Grant...AZ On Tue, May 28, 2013 at 7:06 PM, Jim Cathey j...@windwireless.net wrote: (Thanks to Jim for the suggestion and easiest trouble shooting method I have ever used. ) 'tweren't my idea, I was just commenting on your seeming lack of acceptance of whomever's idea to douse it with cold water as a diagnostic measure. (It might have sailed by and been missed.) Does this indicate a worn injection pump? Replace w/good used. And maybe think twice about your fueling methodology? I wonder if the culprit (excessive pump wear) is dissolved salt? -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 1984 300D - won't start when hot.
There is a place down here in Ocala that had them rebuilt for around $400 last year. Can't remember what the core charge is or if there is any impact if they find it was run on grease. Probably haven't gone up much since then. They may even mail one to you or you could find out how much it would cost to have them put it in. Williams Diesel in Ocala, Fl Manfred Date: Tue, 28 May 2013 12:07:40 -0500 From: Rick Knoble rickkno...@hotmail.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] 1984 300D - won't start when hot. Documented proof WVO isn't good for an injection system. Having an injection pump rebuilt is quite expensive. Find a junkyard one and hope it hasn't been run on WVO. Benzboys(?) in Central Michigan should have one. Mike Canfield and Rick Hawkins should probably do the same, for spares. Attaboy to Grant. Rick Sent from my iPhone ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 1984 300D - won't start when hot.
'You're looking for something _easier_ than a bucket of ice water?' Update on cold water application - Dousing the injection pump when the car would not start was successful! I tried it 5 different times during a no start situation. After applying hose water for 30 to 60 seconds it started up within 5 seconds. (Thanks to Jim for the suggestion and easiest trouble shooting method I have ever used. ) Does this indicate a worn injection pump? If so, can it repaired in place or do I replace it? Michael E. Esh 231-286-2344 On May 22, 2013, at 8:51 AM, Jim Cathey j...@windwireless.net wrote: You're looking for something _easier_ than a bucket of ice water? ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 1984 300D - won't start when hot.
On May 28, 2013, at 10:52 AM, Mike Esh michael...@mac.com wrote: You're looking for something _easier_ than a bucket of ice water?' Update on cold water application - Dousing the injection pump when the car would not start was successful! I tried it 5 different times during a no start situation. After applying hose water for 30 to 60 seconds it started up within 5 seconds. (Thanks to Jim for the suggestion and easiest trouble shooting method I have ever used. ) Does this indicate a worn injection pump? If so, can it repaired in place or do I replace it? Documented proof WVO isn't good for an injection system. Having an injection pump rebuilt is quite expensive. Find a junkyard one and hope it hasn't been run on WVO. Benzboys(?) in Central Michigan should have one. Mike Canfield and Rick Hawkins should probably do the same, for spares. Attaboy to Grant. Rick Sent from my iPhone ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 1984 300D - won't start when hot.
Mike Esh wrote: 'You're looking for something _easier_ than a bucket of ice water?' Update on cold water application - Dousing the injection pump when the car would not start was successful! I tried it 5 different times during a no start situation. After applying hose water for 30 to 60 seconds it started up within 5 seconds. (Thanks to Jim for the suggestion and easiest trouble shooting method I have ever used. ) Does this indicate a worn injection pump? If so, can it repaired in place or do I replace it? I think it's time for a used pump. I have one, I'm sure Kaleb has some. If you want to rebuild the pump, I think the pistons and barrels are $50-100 per cylinder. You could put in 7mm or 8mm pistons and 'crazy Finn' the car. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 1984 300D - won't start when hot.
Time to rebuild or replace it. If the pump is responding to the cold water test it's an indication of internal wear to the point where it is time for a complete tear down and bench rebuild, from my experience. If I recall, this car is using cooking grease? It's been my experience most recycled cooking grease has not been properly filtered and the viscosity is higher which accelerates wear on injection pumps and injectors. I have regular contact with a pump shop and they recently made the decision to not take cores from grease cars.. 24 out of 25 cores were determined BER.. Beyond Economical Repair. Grant... AZ On Tue, May 28, 2013 at 8:52 AM, Mike Esh michael...@mac.com wrote: 'You're looking for something _easier_ than a bucket of ice water?' Update on cold water application - Dousing the injection pump when the car would not start was successful! I tried it 5 different times during a no start situation. After applying hose water for 30 to 60 seconds it started up within 5 seconds. (Thanks to Jim for the suggestion and easiest trouble shooting method I have ever used. ) Does this indicate a worn injection pump? If so, can it repaired in place or do I replace it? Michael E. Esh 231-286-2344 On May 22, 2013, at 8:51 AM, Jim Cathey j...@windwireless.net wrote: You're looking for something _easier_ than a bucket of ice water? ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 1984 300D - won't start when hot.
(Thanks to Jim for the suggestion and easiest trouble shooting method I have ever used. ) 'tweren't my idea, I was just commenting on your seeming lack of acceptance of whomever's idea to douse it with cold water as a diagnostic measure. (It might have sailed by and been missed.) Does this indicate a worn injection pump? Replace w/good used. And maybe think twice about your fueling methodology? I wonder if the culprit (excessive pump wear) is dissolved salt? -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 1984 300D - won't start when hot.
Dr Booth used to say that good used IPs were dirt cheap because they never wore out. Guess that's not so with WVO. May not be true for ULSD, as far as I know. On the other hand, BioD is supposed to be a great lube. -Original Message- From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Mike Esh Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 11:53 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] 1984 300D - won't start when hot. 'You're looking for something _easier_ than a bucket of ice water?' Update on cold water application - Dousing the injection pump when the car would not start was successful! I tried it 5 different times during a no start situation. After applying hose water for 30 to 60 seconds it started up within 5 seconds. (Thanks to Jim for the suggestion and easiest trouble shooting method I have ever used. ) Does this indicate a worn injection pump? If so, can it repaired in place or do I replace it? Michael E. Esh 231-286-2344 On May 22, 2013, at 8:51 AM, Jim Cathey j...@windwireless.net wrote: You're looking for something _easier_ than a bucket of ice water? ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 1984 300D - won't start when hot.
Is the purpose of this test to lower the temperature of the IP to a point where the tolerances will decrease due to contraction of the metals in the pump? I ask because this is the first time I've ever heard of it. I will add that I know little or nothing about WVO or other alternate fuel use with the 617 engine Dan On May 28, 2013, at 10:18 PM, Scott Ritchey wrote: Dr Booth used to say that good used IPs were dirt cheap because they never wore out. Guess that's not so with WVO. May not be true for ULSD, as far as I know. On the other hand, BioD is supposed to be a great lube. -Original Message- From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Mike Esh Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 11:53 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] 1984 300D - won't start when hot. 'You're looking for something _easier_ than a bucket of ice water?' Update on cold water application - Dousing the injection pump when the car would not start was successful! I tried it 5 different times during a no start situation. After applying hose water for 30 to 60 seconds it started up within 5 seconds. (Thanks to Jim for the suggestion and easiest trouble shooting method I have ever used. ) Does this indicate a worn injection pump? If so, can it repaired in place or do I replace it? Michael E. Esh 231-286-2344 On May 22, 2013, at 8:51 AM, Jim Cathey j...@windwireless.net wrote: You're looking for something _easier_ than a bucket of ice water? ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 1984 300D - won't start when hot.
Little discussed it seems among the WVO crowd, but Vegetable oil used in cooking becomes quite acidic. Many who use it, pay more attention to things like filtering out the dead french fries and plastic fork bits, settling and removing water, but little attention is given to the acid balance. Food when cooked gives off water and chemicals which combine to make acids. The very close tolerance Injection Pump parts require smooth surface finish to achieve that close tolerance. Acid bath of the WVO accelerates the erosion of those critical surface parts which degrades IP performance. The failure path then compounds as surface condition further degrades. The lure of cheap fuel overwhelms the need to titrate each batch of WVO and neutralize the acid, filter, and de-water. WVO is good fuel, but it ain't free. Pay up front.. or pay later with component replacement. Grant...AZ On Tue, May 28, 2013 at 7:06 PM, Jim Cathey j...@windwireless.net wrote: (Thanks to Jim for the suggestion and easiest trouble shooting method I have ever used. ) 'tweren't my idea, I was just commenting on your seeming lack of acceptance of whomever's idea to douse it with cold water as a diagnostic measure. (It might have sailed by and been missed.) Does this indicate a worn injection pump? Replace w/good used. And maybe think twice about your fueling methodology? I wonder if the culprit (excessive pump wear) is dissolved salt? -- Jim __**_ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/**mailman/listinfo/mercedes_**okiebenz.comhttp://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 1984 300D - won't start when hot.
On Spec BioDiesel, ASTM 52 is acid neutral, water free, and does indeed provide excellent lubricity. Many lab tests support that claim. You may want to look at www.biodiesel.org for further information and spec. Most home made BioDiesel is not fully tested to that Spec, however, and may be unknown values. Grant... AZ On Tue, May 28, 2013 at 7:18 PM, Scott Ritchey ritche...@nc.rr.com wrote: Dr Booth used to say that good used IPs were dirt cheap because they never wore out. Guess that's not so with WVO. May not be true for ULSD, as far as I know. On the other hand, BioD is supposed to be a great lube. -Original Message- From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Mike Esh Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 11:53 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] 1984 300D - won't start when hot. 'You're looking for something _easier_ than a bucket of ice water?' Update on cold water application - Dousing the injection pump when the car would not start was successful! I tried it 5 different times during a no start situation. After applying hose water for 30 to 60 seconds it started up within 5 seconds. (Thanks to Jim for the suggestion and easiest trouble shooting method I have ever used. ) Does this indicate a worn injection pump? If so, can it repaired in place or do I replace it? Michael E. Esh 231-286-2344 On May 22, 2013, at 8:51 AM, Jim Cathey j...@windwireless.net wrote: You're looking for something _easier_ than a bucket of ice water? ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 1984 300D - won't start when hot.
The ice water trick is a down and dirty to get you started and get you home. It is a cheat not a fix. The rapid cool down shrinks the parts just enough that you pump fuel to the injectors again, albeit inefficiently because the pump is on it's last legs. If the cold water gets you back running, don't plan any long trips till you replace or rebuild the IP. On Tue, May 28, 2013 at 7:21 PM, Dan Penoff d...@penoff.com wrote: Is the purpose of this test to lower the temperature of the IP to a point where the tolerances will decrease due to contraction of the metals in the pump? I ask because this is the first time I've ever heard of it. I will add that I know little or nothing about WVO or other alternate fuel use with the 617 engine Dan On May 28, 2013, at 10:18 PM, Scott Ritchey wrote: Dr Booth used to say that good used IPs were dirt cheap because they never wore out. Guess that's not so with WVO. May not be true for ULSD, as far as I know. On the other hand, BioD is supposed to be a great lube. -Original Message- From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Mike Esh Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 11:53 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] 1984 300D - won't start when hot. 'You're looking for something _easier_ than a bucket of ice water?' Update on cold water application - Dousing the injection pump when the car would not start was successful! I tried it 5 different times during a no start situation. After applying hose water for 30 to 60 seconds it started up within 5 seconds. (Thanks to Jim for the suggestion and easiest trouble shooting method I have ever used. ) Does this indicate a worn injection pump? If so, can it repaired in place or do I replace it? Michael E. Esh 231-286-2344 On May 22, 2013, at 8:51 AM, Jim Cathey j...@windwireless.net wrote: You're looking for something _easier_ than a bucket of ice water? ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 1984 300D - won't start when hot.
I tried that a couple of times. It did not help and heard no vacuum. Thanks, Mike Michael E. Esh me...@horizonenv.com michael...@mac.com http://www.yugster.com/invite/138123 (C) 231.286.2344 On May 22, 2013, at 01:14 PM, John Reames jwrea...@comcast.net wrote: Out of curiosity, pull the fuel cap off the diesel tank when it's hot... (Severely restricted/plugged tank vent?) -- John W Reames jream...@verizon.net Home: +14106646986 Mobile: +14437915905 On May 22, 2013, at 12:49, Mike Esh michael...@mac.com wrote: I emailed them last year and they said to look for an air leak. I have not discovered an air leak and I have gone through system multiple times. They were not much help with this problem. Michael E. Esh me...@horizonenv.com michael...@mac.com http://www.yugster.com/invite/138123 (C) 231.286.2344 On May 22, 2013, at 12:33 PM, ernest breakfield erne...@backyardengineering.org wrote: probably should have started out mentioning this,... since it sounds like you have a problem when you switch to the Diesel tank, that's a clue that you should look there. basic; how's the fuel in the Diesel tank? fresh and uncontaminated? if the fuel's good, it sounds like something's wrong with something in the Diesel side of the switchover system. have you been able to get a response to this question from Frybrid? cheers! e On 22/May/13 04:28, Mike Esh wrote: I have a Frybrid vegoil system that I have been using for about 35,000 miles. Most of the time if I shut down without purging the the vegoil with diesel it starts. When I purge and try to restart with diesel it does not start. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 1984 300D - won't start when hot.
O-rings have been replaced as well as the clear lines. Purchased thru Rusty last year. Thanks for the ideas. Michael E. Esh me...@horizonenv.com michael...@mac.com http://www.yugster.com/invite/138123 (C) 231.286.2344 On May 22, 2013, at 01:17 PM, John Reames jwrea...@comcast.net wrote: Also on the subject of leaks, replace the o-rings in the banjo bolt of the fuel filter, and check the condition of all of the clear plastic fuel lines, or their replacements. -- John W Reames jream...@verizon.net Home: +14106646986 Mobile: +14437915905 On May 22, 2013, at 12:49, Mike Esh michael...@mac.com wrote: I emailed them last year and they said to look for an air leak. I have not discovered an air leak and I have gone through system multiple times. They were not much help with this problem. Michael E. Esh me...@horizonenv.com michael...@mac.com http://www.yugster.com/invite/138123 (C) 231.286.2344 On May 22, 2013, at 12:33 PM, ernest breakfield erne...@backyardengineering.org wrote: probably should have started out mentioning this,... since it sounds like you have a problem when you switch to the Diesel tank, that's a clue that you should look there. basic; how's the fuel in the Diesel tank? fresh and uncontaminated? if the fuel's good, it sounds like something's wrong with something in the Diesel side of the switchover system. have you been able to get a response to this question from Frybrid? cheers! e On 22/May/13 04:28, Mike Esh wrote: I have a Frybrid vegoil system that I have been using for about 35,000 miles. Most of the time if I shut down without purging the the vegoil with diesel it starts. When I purge and try to restart with diesel it does not start. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 1984 300D - won't start when hot.
I have a Bosch outlet locally and I will try them if I run out of other options.( I have asked them about the no hot start and they suggested the air leak. I will try the cold water test as soon as it warms up again. We are expecting low temps of 35 to 40 degrees overnight and highs of 65 over the weekend. It happens more often at temps in the 80's or above. I will also be replacing the lines and hose from the tank to the filter next month. Parts to be ordered from MiniQ. (: Michael E. Esh me...@horizonenv.com michael...@mac.com http://www.yugster.com/invite/138123 (C) 231.286.2344 On May 22, 2013, at 01:13 PM, Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com wrote: Is there a way to test the pump while on the car, other than the cold water test. Michael E. Esh me...@horizonenv.com michael...@mac.com http://www.yugster.com/invite/138123 (C) 231.286.2344 No. Only other test for IP is on a test bench at a Bosch fuel injection service center familiar with MB pumps. Not all are. MB keeps some parts and specs secret ,but some shops know how to get that info. But any injection shop with a Bosch approved test bench should be able to tell you is the pump is worn out. Some of them may be able to tell if it is really bad while still in the car. I'd try Grant's water hose test. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 1984 300D - won't start when hot.
Yes, the clear pre-filter was full of fuel. I will pull vacuum hose and see what happens. I have never adjusted the rack damper bolt, is there anything I need to aware of so I do not make the situation worse Michael E. Esh me...@horizonenv.com michael...@mac.com http://www.yugster.com/invite/138123 (C) 231.286.2344 On May 21, 2013, at 11:29 AM, Mitch Haley m...@voyager.net wrote: Mike Esh wrote: (primer pump) New last year. New style as well. Pumping does not help it start. Grasping at straws, but was the clear prefilter full of fuel? I wonder what would happen if you loosened the rack damper bolt and/or pulled off the hose to the vacuum shutoff solenoid. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 1984 300D - won't start when hot.
That is an interesting theory. I have a Frybrid vegoil system that I have been using for about 35,000 miles. Most of the time if I shut down without purging the the vegoil with diesel it starts. When I purge and try to restart with diesel it does not start. I will try it when I get home from work today. Is there a way to test the pump while on the car, other than the cold water test. Michael E. Esh me...@horizonenv.com michael...@mac.com http://www.yugster.com/invite/138123 (C) 231.286.2344 On May 21, 2013, at 11:44 AM, G Mann g2ma...@gmail.com wrote: Next time it does it, try pouring cold water over the injector pump. If it then starts right up, problem identified. IP is dying and the heat of summer adds to the clearances internal. Cooling it down closes up the worn tolerances and let's it run again. I'm betting going down the road on the back of the tow truck at 50 mph did the same thing which is why it started at their yard. Just a thought. Grant... AZ [where it will be 101 F today] On Tue, May 21, 2013 at 8:29 AM, Mitch Haley m...@voyager.net wrote: Mike Esh wrote: (primer pump) New last year. New style as well. Pumping does not help it start. Grasping at straws, but was the clear prefilter full of fuel? I wonder what would happen if you loosened the rack damper bolt and/or pulled off the hose to the vacuum shutoff solenoid. Mitch. __**_ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/**mailman/listinfo/mercedes_**okiebenz.comhttp://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 1984 300D - won't start when hot.
I have a Frybrid vegoil system Oh. Should have reported that first. Pump damage advances in probability, but so does an air leak. Check the switchover mechanism. Is there a way to test the pump while on the car, other than the cold water test. You're looking for something _easier_ than a bucket of ice water? -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 1984 300D - won't start when hot.
probably should have started out mentioning this,... since it sounds like you have a problem when you switch to the Diesel tank, that's a clue that you should look there. basic; how's the fuel in the Diesel tank? fresh and uncontaminated? if the fuel's good, it sounds like something's wrong with something in the Diesel side of the switchover system. have you been able to get a response to this question from Frybrid? cheers! e On 22/May/13 04:28, Mike Esh wrote: I have a Frybrid vegoil system that I have been using for about 35,000 miles. Most of the time if I shut down without purging the the vegoil with diesel it starts. When I purge and try to restart with diesel it does not start. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 1984 300D - won't start when hot.
I emailed them last year and they said to look for an air leak. I have not discovered an air leak and I have gone through system multiple times. They were not much help with this problem. Michael E. Esh me...@horizonenv.com michael...@mac.com http://www.yugster.com/invite/138123 (C) 231.286.2344 On May 22, 2013, at 12:33 PM, ernest breakfield erne...@backyardengineering.org wrote: probably should have started out mentioning this,... since it sounds like you have a problem when you switch to the Diesel tank, that's a clue that you should look there. basic; how's the fuel in the Diesel tank? fresh and uncontaminated? if the fuel's good, it sounds like something's wrong with something in the Diesel side of the switchover system. have you been able to get a response to this question from Frybrid? cheers! e On 22/May/13 04:28, Mike Esh wrote: I have a Frybrid vegoil system that I have been using for about 35,000 miles. Most of the time if I shut down without purging the the vegoil with diesel it starts. When I purge and try to restart with diesel it does not start. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 1984 300D - won't start when hot.
Out of curiosity, pull the fuel cap off the diesel tank when it's hot... (Severely restricted/plugged tank vent?) -- John W Reames jream...@verizon.net Home: +14106646986 Mobile: +14437915905 On May 22, 2013, at 12:49, Mike Esh michael...@mac.com wrote: I emailed them last year and they said to look for an air leak. I have not discovered an air leak and I have gone through system multiple times. They were not much help with this problem. Michael E. Esh me...@horizonenv.com michael...@mac.com http://www.yugster.com/invite/138123 (C) 231.286.2344 On May 22, 2013, at 12:33 PM, ernest breakfield erne...@backyardengineering.org wrote: probably should have started out mentioning this,... since it sounds like you have a problem when you switch to the Diesel tank, that's a clue that you should look there. basic; how's the fuel in the Diesel tank? fresh and uncontaminated? if the fuel's good, it sounds like something's wrong with something in the Diesel side of the switchover system. have you been able to get a response to this question from Frybrid? cheers! e On 22/May/13 04:28, Mike Esh wrote: I have a Frybrid vegoil system that I have been using for about 35,000 miles. Most of the time if I shut down without purging the the vegoil with diesel it starts. When I purge and try to restart with diesel it does not start. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 1984 300D - won't start when hot.
Also on the subject of leaks, replace the o-rings in the banjo bolt of the fuel filter, and check the condition of all of the clear plastic fuel lines, or their replacements. -- John W Reames jream...@verizon.net Home: +14106646986 Mobile: +14437915905 On May 22, 2013, at 12:49, Mike Esh michael...@mac.com wrote: I emailed them last year and they said to look for an air leak. I have not discovered an air leak and I have gone through system multiple times. They were not much help with this problem. Michael E. Esh me...@horizonenv.com michael...@mac.com http://www.yugster.com/invite/138123 (C) 231.286.2344 On May 22, 2013, at 12:33 PM, ernest breakfield erne...@backyardengineering.org wrote: probably should have started out mentioning this,... since it sounds like you have a problem when you switch to the Diesel tank, that's a clue that you should look there. basic; how's the fuel in the Diesel tank? fresh and uncontaminated? if the fuel's good, it sounds like something's wrong with something in the Diesel side of the switchover system. have you been able to get a response to this question from Frybrid? cheers! e On 22/May/13 04:28, Mike Esh wrote: I have a Frybrid vegoil system that I have been using for about 35,000 miles. Most of the time if I shut down without purging the the vegoil with diesel it starts. When I purge and try to restart with diesel it does not start. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 1984 300D - won't start when hot.
Is there a way to test the pump while on the car, other than the cold water test. Michael E. Esh me...@horizonenv.com michael...@mac.com http://www.yugster.com/invite/138123 (C) 231.286.2344 No. Only other test for IP is on a test bench at a Bosch fuel injection service center familiar with MB pumps. Not all are. MB keeps some parts and specs secret ,but some shops know how to get that info. But any injection shop with a Bosch approved test bench should be able to tell you is the pump is worn out. Some of them may be able to tell if it is really bad while still in the car. I'd try Grant's water hose test. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 1984 300D - won't start when hot.
Mike, what were you running on when it quit on the way to the airport? If on the WVO system, then I don't see how the post below would apply. From what I recall, your issue is generally when the engine is hot and not on cold starts. Does that not imply just the opposite? That the issue is with the WVO system? Or did I miss something along the way? Randy On 22/05/2013 11:33 AM, ernest breakfield wrote: probably should have started out mentioning this,... since it sounds like you have a problem when you switch to the Diesel tank, that's a clue that you should look there. basic; how's the fuel in the Diesel tank? fresh and uncontaminated? if the fuel's good, it sounds like something's wrong with something in the Diesel side of the switchover system. have you been able to get a response to this question from Frybrid? cheers! e On 22/May/13 04:28, Mike Esh wrote: I have a Frybrid vegoil system that I have been using for about 35,000 miles. Most of the time if I shut down without purging the the vegoil with diesel it starts. When I purge and try to restart with diesel it does not start. ___ ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 1984 300D - won't start when hot.
Could this hot starting problem be caused the valves being out of adjustment? No, those result in COLD-starting problems. The valves get tighter with age, and with cold. Any suggestions are very welcome. Your symptoms _scream_ air leak (into the fuel system) to me. It doesn't take much air to really mess up its ability to actually inject fuel, as air is highly compressible. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 1984 300D - won't start when hot.
What Jim said. If you can't see any wet hoses: Start with the two hose sections at the tank, above the axle. Replace them. then move forward, and replace all the rubber hose sections on both the suction and return lines. This includes the small injector return lines. If you see wet hoses, replace them. they are letting air in. Rubber hoses will allow air in and cause the car to not run without leaking fuel. FLAPS hose is ok for the majority, but they don't have the injector return hose. Get a meter of that from Q2, or 4' of 1/8 viton hose from an industrial supply house. You can cut the ferrules off the hoses with a hacksaw, grinder or dremel; then replace hose and clamp with a regular hose clamp. Tank hose, you might want to order from Q2 with the ferrule. It is tight to get that put together right with a clamp, but I have done it many times. Could this hot starting problem be caused the valves being out of adjustment? No, those result in COLD-starting problems. The valves get tighter with age, and with cold. Any suggestions are very welcome. Your symptoms _scream_ air leak (into the fuel system) to me. It doesn't take much air to really mess up its ability to actually inject fuel, as air is highly compressible. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 1984 300D - won't start when hot.
What! 85 in MI already? Summer's over already!? ;) Wilton - Original Message - From: Mike Esh michael...@mac.com To: Okie Benz mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2013 8:29 AM Subject: [MBZ] 1984 300D - won't start when hot. Well it is summer again in Michigan and I am again having trouble starting my car after it has been driven for while. The story: Air temp of about 85 and I am driving my brother to the Grand Rapids airport from Whitehall MI. About a 60 minute drive 95% expressway. I am running the air conditioning and it is barely keeping up due to flaps issues. At the 2nd stop light off the xway the car stalls in the right hand lane of a two left lane turn, we are four cars from the intersection. This was at about 4:30 p.m. (very hot and lots of traffic. I immediately turn off the air conditioning and try to re-start. It cranks valiantly however it will not fire. I try several more times without success. I call for a wrecker and we begin to wait while parade waving to the passers by who are very unhappy with us. After an hour of waiting, I flag down a Clarion Hotel van and give him 10 bucks to drop my brother at the airport. I get back in the car and wait for another 30 minutes, trying occasionally to re-start to no avail. Wrecker finally shows up, loads me up on the back of his platform and we drive to another 15 minutes to his garage. I asked to use their battery booster and tried once more to start the car and lo and behold it fires right up and runs like a dream. I hop in and drive home with no problems. The car starts right up in the morning without any problems. As many of you know this car has been doing this in the summer for 2 years now. I do not have the problem in the winter. While waiting at the garage I loosened one of the feed lines at the injector and I did have fuel at the injector. Could this hot starting problem be caused the valves being out of adjustment? Any suggestions are very welcome. Thanks in advance, Mike Michael E. Esh michael...@mac.com http://www.yugster.com/invite/138123 (C) 231.286.2344 ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 1984 300D - won't start when hot.
WILTON wrote: What! 85 in MI already? Summer's over already!? ;) Yesterday was the hottest of the year so far, and the first time I ever ran A/C in a house in May. Mike, how old is your hand primer pump? Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 1984 300D - won't start when hot.
Yes! Air can leak in around the primer pump also. Does it leak fuel when you pump the primer? If so, add that to your Q2 order. WILTON wrote: What! 85 in MI already? Summer's over already!? ;) Yesterday was the hottest of the year so far, and the first time I ever ran A/C in a house in May. Mike, how old is your hand primer pump? Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 1984 300D - won't start when hot.
New last year. New style as well. Pumping does not help it start. Michael E. Esh me...@horizonenv.com michael...@mac.com http://www.yugster.com/invite/138123 (C) 231.286.2344 On May 21, 2013, at 10:00 AM, Mitch Haley m...@voyager.net wrote: WILTON wrote: What! 85 in MI already? Summer's over already!? ;) Yesterday was the hottest of the year so far, and the first time I ever ran A/C in a house in May. Mike, how old is your hand primer pump? Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 1984 300D - won't start when hot.
Mike Esh wrote: (primer pump) New last year. New style as well. Pumping does not help it start. Grasping at straws, but was the clear prefilter full of fuel? I wonder what would happen if you loosened the rack damper bolt and/or pulled off the hose to the vacuum shutoff solenoid. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 1984 300D - won't start when hot.
Next time it does it, try pouring cold water over the injector pump. If it then starts right up, problem identified. IP is dying and the heat of summer adds to the clearances internal. Cooling it down closes up the worn tolerances and let's it run again. I'm betting going down the road on the back of the tow truck at 50 mph did the same thing which is why it started at their yard. Just a thought. Grant... AZ [where it will be 101 F today] On Tue, May 21, 2013 at 8:29 AM, Mitch Haley m...@voyager.net wrote: Mike Esh wrote: (primer pump) New last year. New style as well. Pumping does not help it start. Grasping at straws, but was the clear prefilter full of fuel? I wonder what would happen if you loosened the rack damper bolt and/or pulled off the hose to the vacuum shutoff solenoid. Mitch. __**_ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/**mailman/listinfo/mercedes_**okiebenz.comhttp://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 1984 300D - won't start when hot.
WHen you pump the primer, is it pumping fuel? Fire takes three things: fuel, oxygen, and compression(Heat) which one is missing? I had a wabbit diesel that a mechanic put sugar in the gas tank. IT would not start when hot after the sugar did its thing. No Compression. New last year. New style as well. Pumping does not help it start. Michael E. Esh me...@horizonenv.com michael...@mac.com http://www.yugster.com/invite/138123 (C) 231.286.2344 On May 21, 2013, at 10:00 AM, Mitch Haley m...@voyager.net wrote: Mike, how old is your hand primer pump? Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 1984 300D - won't start when hot.
Did somebody upset the mechanic to make him wanta tighten up the engine in such a manner? Wilton - Original Message - From: Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2013 11:45 AM Subject: Re: [MBZ] 1984 300D - won't start when hot. WHen you pump the primer, is it pumping fuel? Fire takes three things: fuel, oxygen, and compression(Heat) which one is missing? I had a wabbit diesel that a mechanic put sugar in the gas tank. IT would not start when hot after the sugar did its thing. No Compression. New last year. New style as well. Pumping does not help it start. Michael E. Esh me...@horizonenv.com michael...@mac.com http://www.yugster.com/invite/138123 (C) 231.286.2344 On May 21, 2013, at 10:00 AM, Mitch Haley m...@voyager.net wrote: Mike, how old is your hand primer pump? Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 1984 300D - won't start when hot.
On Tue, 21 May 2013 12:09:42 -0400 WILTON wilt...@nc.rr.com wrote: Did somebody upset the mechanic to make him wanta tighten up the engine in such a manner? That sure sounds like a small claims court action Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 1984 300D - won't start when hot.
Yeah, I paid him for a new head and installation. He wanted to rip me for a block overhaul. I told him no, the cylinders, rings and bearings were fine, it just needs a head. (Head was off when i bought it.) He got mad and figgered I was gonna pay for the overhaul one way or another. I sure did NOT pay him for it. I picked up the car, drove it 180 miles, shut it off at the hotel and it would not start. Bellhops pushed it into the parking lot. Got it started and ran it home. By then it was no longer 0 or below, so I did the engine myself. Only hired the twit to do the head because it was so cold outside. BTW, he advertised himself as a porch mechanic. Porch owners tend to be dumb enough to pay for these tricks evidently, as he was in business at least a couple decades after this doing porch only. Did somebody upset the mechanic to make him wanta tighten up the engine in such a manner? Wilton - Original Message - From: Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2013 11:45 AM Subject: Re: [MBZ] 1984 300D - won't start when hot. WHen you pump the primer, is it pumping fuel? Fire takes three things: fuel, oxygen, and compression(Heat) which one is missing? I had a wabbit diesel that a mechanic put sugar in the gas tank. IT would not start when hot after the sugar did its thing. No Compression. New last year. New style as well. Pumping does not help it start. Michael E. Esh me...@horizonenv.com michael...@mac.com http://www.yugster.com/invite/138123 (C) 231.286.2344 On May 21, 2013, at 10:00 AM, Mitch Haley m...@voyager.net wrote: Mike, how old is your hand primer pump? Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 1984 300D - won't start when hot.
On May 21, 2013, at 7:28 AM, Mike Esh michael...@mac.com wrote: Any suggestions are very welcome. How about a question? Do you still run WVO? If so, Grants suggestion of a worn out fuel injection pump makes sense. Rick Who thinks WVO can wear out an injection pump prematurely. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 1984 300D - won't start when hot.
An air leak might do this but as long as the primary (small clear one) fuel filter is full (or only a small bubble) I wouldn't worry about air leaks upstream of that filter. The hand pump is a likely suspect but leaks downstream of the lift pump should leak visible fuel. On my care, the associated hard lines are (or were) clear so an air bubble may be visible. But in my experience, air leaks tend to be a problem when the engine is cold and hasn't run for a time. Recommend you check the IP vacuum shutoff (e.g. disconnect it at the IP and shut off manually). This smacks of residual vacuum to me. Scott -Original Message- From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Mitch Haley Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2013 11:29 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] 1984 300D - won't start when hot. Mike Esh wrote: (primer pump) New last year. New style as well. Pumping does not help it start.? Grasping at straws, but was the clear prefilter full of fuel? I wonder what would happen if you loosened the rack damper bolt and/or pulled off the hose to the vacuum shutoff solenoid. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 1984 300D - won't start when hot.
But if there is an air leak, would it not have shown itself earlier? A venturi would be created in the fuel lines while driving which would suck air into the lines. Might it be the ... no. The hand pump would allow leak down at cold as well as hot. IF there is air in the system, how is it able to bleed out enough to allow cold start fuel delivery? clay On May 21, 2013, at 5:44 AM, Jim Cathey wrote: Could this hot starting problem be caused the valves being out of adjustment? No, those result in COLD-starting problems. The valves get tighter with age, and with cold. Any suggestions are very welcome. Your symptoms _scream_ air leak (into the fuel system) to me. It doesn't take much air to really mess up its ability to actually inject fuel, as air is highly compressible. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 1984 300D - won't start when hot.
But what if he is a looser? --R On 5/21/13 12:29 PM, Craig wrote: On Tue, 21 May 2013 12:09:42 -0400 WILTON wilt...@nc.rr.com wrote: Did somebody upset the mechanic to make him wanta tighten up the engine in such a manner? That sure sounds like a small claims court action Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 1984 300D - won't start when hot.
Air leaks can cause really weird things with the fuel system. I chased a leak in the 124 for years without success until I finally changed EVERY hose bit, and bypassed the fuel heater. Never did find out where the leak was, but no more problems. It would have no start cold, no start hot, and plugged filter symptoms randomly. It is really nice now, with the fuel air leaks gone and the suspension rebuilt. Sounds wonderful and runs great! (OM603) But if there is an air leak, would it not have shown itself earlier? A venturi would be created in the fuel lines while driving which would suck air into the lines. Might it be the ... no. The hand pump would allow leak down at cold as well as hot. IF there is air in the system, how is it able to bleed out enough to allow cold start fuel delivery? clay On May 21, 2013, at 5:44 AM, Jim Cathey wrote: Could this hot starting problem be caused the valves being out of adjustment? No, those result in COLD-starting problems. The valves get tighter with age, and with cold. Any suggestions are very welcome. Your symptoms _scream_ air leak (into the fuel system) to me. It doesn't take much air to really mess up its ability to actually inject fuel, as air is highly compressible. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
