Re: [MBZ] Diesel from Nat Gas?
Low gas prices may not last long: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304331204577352161288275978.html Gerry Fmiser fmi...@gmail.com writes: Electric generation from natural gas generally serves a different purpose than coal. The coal is used for baseline which can take a week to startup. The natural gas is used for on-demand. Startup is less than an hour, as I recall. Can be just minutes, some peak generation is done with gas turbine engines, those don't take long to spin up. Allan -- 1983 300D 1979 300SD ___ ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Diesel from Nat Gas?
Just make the bribe subtle and BIG enough, this is America after all. Cynical? Me? nah! Fred Moir Lynn MA Diesel preferred On 4/18/2012 8:56 AM, Curt Raymond wrote: Big story on NPR yesterday . Fuel America with fuel from America. Gotta figure out how to get CARB on board... -Curt ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Diesel from Nat Gas?
Didn't the Germans do that in WW2? The fuel part I mean, though they probably could have handled CARB as well. --R On 4/18/12 8:56 AM, Curt Raymond wrote: Big story on NPR yesterday about the sinking price of natural gas due to ease of extraction what with fracking and how they'll extract nat gas to get to propane and such. I was reminded that there is apparently some process to turn natural gas into diesel fuel and made me wonder if a diesel resurgence might be on the horizon. Fuel America with fuel from America. Gotta figure out how to get CARB on board... -Curt ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Diesel from Nat Gas?
CARB is a sinking ship, let it sink and let's move forward. Grow a set America ! On Wed, Apr 18, 2012 at 5:56 AM, Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com wrote: Big story on NPR yesterday about the sinking price of natural gas due to ease of extraction what with fracking and how they'll extract nat gas to get to propane and such. I was reminded that there is apparently some process to turn natural gas into diesel fuel and made me wonder if a diesel resurgence might be on the horizon. Fuel America with fuel from America. Gotta figure out how to get CARB on board... -Curt ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Diesel from Nat Gas?
Guys, I've been preaching this for years. During WWII the Germans needed a source for diesel and couldn't get oil so they created diesel from natural gas. This was lost after the war and everyone could once again get oil. Then several years ago (6-10) one of the colleges on the Left Coast ran a project to revive this method of creating diesel. From the last I read, they got it down to a 4-step process. If I remember correctly, they envisioned portable conversion plants for remote areas to convert it and then truck to existing distribution lines/pipelines. Their final description was that diesel from natural gas was just as clean as natural gas (0 emissions), provided better power and yielded better mileage than oil based diesel. And that we already have a pipeline distribution system and diesel tanks and pumps at the gas stations, so no need to create a whole new network with the time needed and the additional costs. I think this process would be great for our country and get us off of dependence on foreign oil. Just some additional info to add to the discussion. Best Wishes, Roger Hale Dinnerware Classics, Inc. Monroe, Ga. 770-267-0850 www.dinnerwareclassics.com (new) www.rubylane.com/shops/sna (antique) ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Diesel from Nat Gas?
Yes, we should be doing this - a surplus of one resource, and a need for another - convert the gas to Diesel. However, the companies that will be doing this (unless the government nationalizes it) will be selling to the highest bidder - likely China, India, Brazel, etc. THERE IS NO US OIL - get over it. It's owned, produced, distributed, and sold by International corporations who have NO national interest. On Wed, Apr 18, 2012 at 11:05 AM, roger...@comcast.net wrote: Guys, I've been preaching this for years. During WWII the Germans needed a source for diesel and couldn't get oil so they created diesel from natural gas. This was lost after the war and everyone could once again get oil. Then several years ago (6-10) one of the colleges on the Left Coast ran a project to revive this method of creating diesel. From the last I read, they got it down to a 4-step process. If I remember correctly, they envisioned portable conversion plants for remote areas to convert it and then truck to existing distribution lines/pipelines. Their final description was that diesel from natural gas was just as clean as natural gas (0 emissions), provided better power and yielded better mileage than oil based diesel. And that we already have a pipeline distribution system and diesel tanks and pumps at the gas stations, so no need to create a whole new network with the time needed and the additional costs. I think this process would be great for our country and get us off of dependence on foreign oil. Just some additional info to add to the discussion. Best Wishes, Roger Hale Dinnerware Classics, Inc. Monroe, Ga. 770-267-0850 www.dinnerwareclassics.com (new) www.rubylane.com/shops/sna (antique) ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- OK Don 2001 ML320 1992 300D 2.5T 1990 300D 2.5T 1997 Plymouth Grand Voyager ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Diesel from Nat Gas?
Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com wrote: Big story on NPR yesterday about the sinking price of natural gas due to ease of extraction what with fracking and how they'll extract nat gas to get to propane and such. I was reminded that there is apparently some process to turn natural gas into diesel fuel and made me wonder if a diesel resurgence might be on the horizon. Fuel America with fuel from America. Gotta figure out how to get CARB on board... Better plan would be convert our gas cars to run on CNG. -- Max Dillon Charleston SC '95 E300, '87 300TD ___ ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Diesel from Nat Gas?
Max meadedil...@bellsouth.net writes: Better plan would be convert our gas cars to run on CNG. Except that requires huge new infrastructure in fueling stations and delivery, not just producing the vehicles. Same problem with hydrogen-fueled cars. Diesel works in the pumps and delivery systems we have now. Allan -- 1983 300D 1979 300SD ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Diesel from Nat Gas?
OK Don okd...@gmail.com wrote: Yes, we should be doing this - a surplus of one resource, and a need for another - convert the gas to Diesel. However, the companies that will be doing this (unless the government nationalizes it) will be selling to the highest bidder - likely China, India, Brazel, etc. THERE IS NO US OIL - get over it. It's owned, produced, distributed, and sold by International corporations who have NO national interest. Yep. International market sets the price. Used as CNG we can avoid that, we just need the infrastructure and the cars. -- Max Dillon Charleston SC '95 E300, '87 300TD ___ ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Diesel from Nat Gas?
I suspect that natural gas prices will rise in the future. They won't stay low forever. For the longest time coal was one of the cheapest ways to make power, but with emissions controls costing billions, and cheap natural gas - it can be economical for new plants to use natural gas. And that's just one industry that can adjust to use it and eventually drive the prices up. On Wed, Apr 18, 2012 at 5:15 PM, Max meadedil...@bellsouth.net wrote: OK Don okd...@gmail.com wrote: Yes, we should be doing this - a surplus of one resource, and a need for another - convert the gas to Diesel. However, the companies that will be doing this (unless the government nationalizes it) will be selling to the highest bidder - likely China, India, Brazel, etc. THERE IS NO US OIL - get over it. It's owned, produced, distributed, and sold by International corporations who have NO national interest. Yep. International market sets the price. Used as CNG we can avoid that, we just need the infrastructure and the cars. -- Max Dillon Charleston SC '95 E300, '87 300TD ___ ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Diesel from Nat Gas?
Oil prices are not market driven. Oil is not a free market. -Dave Walton On Apr 18, 2012, at 7:15 PM, Max meadedil...@bellsouth.net wrote: OK Don okd...@gmail.com wrote: Yes, we should be doing this - a surplus of one resource, and a need for another - convert the gas to Diesel. However, the companies that will be doing this (unless the government nationalizes it) will be selling to the highest bidder - likely China, India, Brazel, etc. THERE IS NO US OIL - get over it. It's owned, produced, distributed, and sold by International corporations who have NO national interest. Yep. International market sets the price. Used as CNG we can avoid that, we just need the infrastructure and the cars. -- Max Dillon Charleston SC '95 E300, '87 300TD ___ ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Diesel from Nat Gas?
No! Fischer Tropf was coal to Dissel and gasoline. Crude from coal yields several fractions similar to petro crude. Didn't the Germans do that in WW2? The fuel part I mean, though they probably could have handled CARB as well. --R On 4/18/12 8:56 AM, Curt Raymond wrote: Big story on NPR yesterday about the sinking price of natural gas due to ease of extraction what with fracking and how they'll extract nat gas to get to propane and such. I was reminded that there is apparently some process to turn natural gas into diesel fuel and made me wonder if a diesel resurgence might be on the horizon. Fuel America with fuel from America. Gotta figure out how to get CARB on board... -Curt ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Diesel from Nat Gas?
Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com wrote: Big story on NPR yesterday about the sinking price of natural gas due to ease of extraction what with fracking and how they'll extract nat gas to get to propane and such. Max wrote: Better plan would be convert our gas cars to run on CNG. You convert yours to run on CNG - I'll keep mine running on diesel, thanks. *smiles* -- Philip ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Diesel from Nat Gas?
Brian Toscano wrote: For the longest time coal was one of the cheapest ways to make power, but with emissions controls costing billions, and cheap natural gas - it can be economical for new plants to use natural gas. Electric generation from natural gas generally serves a different purpose than coal. The coal is used for baseline which can take a week to startup. The natural gas is used for on-demand. Startup is less than an hour, as I recall. -- Philip ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Diesel from Nat Gas?
If they can make diesel they can also make gasoline. That's what they're doing with half the diesel they _could_ be making now. Cracking it to gasoline. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Diesel from Nat Gas?
Certain parts of the country use gas fired plants for various reasons - sometimes purely for emissions, other times for periods of high demand. However, with today's current low and abundant natural gas, some power generators are replacing aging coal stations with natural gas. I don't think that trend is going to stop as long as natural gas is inexpensive and plentiful and doesn't require billions in emissions like coal plants do. On Wed, Apr 18, 2012 at 7:01 PM, Fmiser fmi...@gmail.com wrote: Brian Toscano wrote: For the longest time coal was one of the cheapest ways to make power, but with emissions controls costing billions, and cheap natural gas - it can be economical for new plants to use natural gas. Electric generation from natural gas generally serves a different purpose than coal. The coal is used for baseline which can take a week to startup. The natural gas is used for on-demand. Startup is less than an hour, as I recall. -- Philip ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Diesel from Nat Gas?
Fmiser fmi...@gmail.com writes: Electric generation from natural gas generally serves a different purpose than coal. The coal is used for baseline which can take a week to startup. The natural gas is used for on-demand. Startup is less than an hour, as I recall. Can be just minutes, some peak generation is done with gas turbine engines, those don't take long to spin up. Allan -- 1983 300D 1979 300SD ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Diesel from Nat Gas?
You're talking about CCPP, or combined cycle power plants. These are commonly coal fired steam plants that utilize a gas turbine for peaking. Large gas turbines can typically be spun up in 20 minutes or less, depending on the model. GE and other manufacturers have refined the gas turbine to the point where they are being used for base load applications more commonly. We have several gas fired plants in the Tampa area, and many utilities are converting their older coal fired plants to gas, a good example being in my former town of Port Washington, WI, where a heat recovery steam generator is used to power two steam turbines along with four gas fired turbines. The former coal fired plant took roughly 24 hours to bring a steam turbine on line, with a gas turbine used as a peaker. Conversion of the plant to 100% gas eliminated two large smokestacks and a coal pile that was replenished on a regular basis by coal boats from Lake Michigan. A good article on the construction of the plant can be found at: http://www.powermag.com/gas/Port-Washington-Generating-Station-Phase-2-Port-Washington-Wisconsin_1359.html Dan On Apr 18, 2012, at 9:46 PM, Allan Streib wrote: Fmiser fmi...@gmail.com writes: Electric generation from natural gas generally serves a different purpose than coal. The coal is used for baseline which can take a week to startup. The natural gas is used for on-demand. Startup is less than an hour, as I recall. Can be just minutes, some peak generation is done with gas turbine engines, those don't take long to spin up. Allan -- 1983 300D 1979 300SD ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Diesel from Nat Gas?
Fmiser fmi...@gmail.com wrote: Max wrote: Better plan would be convert our gas cars to run on CNG. You convert yours to run on CNG - I'll keep mine running on diesel, thanks. *smiles* -- Philip I'm thinking hard about doing that - to my Wifes car! -- Max Dillon Charleston SC '95 E300, '87 300TD ___ ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
