Re: [MBZ] HOW MANY GEARS IN 300D transmission
Jim Cathey wrote: On-topic (sort of), it has five gears. Can't see much point to fifth, though. It may be that the gear ratios are wrong for this engine/differential combination. (I kept the original diff, the one that went with the tranny is still on the parts car.) I'm not entirely sure what's on the parts car (the parts car is a 2.3, isn't it?) but I think the 2.5 auto came with a 3.07, same as my 300SD. Does your car do about 2000-2100 at 60 in 5th? Seems like 5th would be a nice gear at 70-80 mph, but not useable at 55. Your donor car might have a 3.27 in it. Here's a Marshall quote for you: The 717.411 (GL 68/20 B-5) transmission used in the 190E has slightly different gearing than the 717.410 (GL 68/20 A-5) used in the 190D (3.91, 2.32, 1.42, 1.00, 0.78 for the 717.411 vs 4.23, 2.36, 1.49, 1.00, 0.84 for the 717.410). The 717.410 is PERFECT for the 190D 2.2 in MY opinion (less ideal for the 190D 2.0 however) and the 717.411 would not be as nice.
Re: [MBZ] HOW MANY GEARS IN 300D transmission
Right - it does not specify the gears in a neat table - but if you look at page 41 -- yes, I quoted from that same manual: I'll quote from page 41 of the factory original owners manual (not a copy or reprint) from my last 1976 300D (115 chassis, pre turbo), part no. 115 584 12 97 - D Drive. All gears are available. 1st. gear can be engaged only by means of kickdown. S Slope. Shifting up to 3rd gear only. 1st gear can be engaged only by means of kickdown. L Low. Shifting up to 2nd gear only. The vehicle starts out in 1st gear. For driving on steep grades, trailer operation in mountainous areas and very slow bumper to bumper driving with frequent stops. Independent of the accelerator position, 1st gear is available for a wider speed range. I believe that 1st. gear can be engaged only by means of kickdown. implies that the car does not start from a dead stop in 1st gear, unless it is in L, or the accelerator has been depressed enough to trigger the kickdown switch. On 10/23/06, R A Bennell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The original owners manual in the glovebox does not say (so far as I can tell on a quick perusal in any event) how many gears my 76 300D has. All it really says is that it is an automatic transmission (which of course is fairly obvious even to the uninitiated). The manual is a combined version intended for the 240 and 300 and it does give some info about the 240 manual but next to nothing about the automatic. I guess they just intend one to push on the go pedal. Randy -- OK Don, KD5NRO Norman, OK The Americans will always do the right thing... after they've exhausted all the alternatives. Sir Winston Churchill '90 300D, '87 300SDL, '81 240D, '78 450SLC, '97 Ply Grand Voyager
Re: [MBZ] HOW MANY GEARS IN 300D transmission
Remember - I quoted from the manual for 115 chassis 300D, 1975 to 1976
- no turbo.
The alldata pages did not differenciate enough between variations to
be useful. For instance, it did not differenciate between the three
speed early 107 cars ('72 to '80) and the later four speed cars ('81
to '89).
So lets see - the only other semi-official post on the subject, OK Don's,
agrees with me.
--
OK Don, KD5NRO
Norman, OK
The Americans will always do the right thing... after they've
exhausted all the alternatives.
Sir Winston Churchill
'90 300D, '87 300SDL, '81 240D, '78 450SLC, '97 Ply Grand Voyager
Re: [MBZ] HOW MANY GEARS IN 300D transmission
The data is for a particular set of years. I never said it was good for 107
cars, I said it was good for an 83 300CD. All data, at least my version,
doesn't go back before 82. I did say, TWICE, that early 4.5L V8's had 3
speeds.
Why is everyone so insistant that I'm wrong?
Mike
On 10/23/06, OK Don [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Remember - I quoted from the manual for 115 chassis 300D, 1975 to 1976
- no turbo.
The alldata pages did not differenciate enough between variations to
be useful. For instance, it did not differenciate between the three
speed early 107 cars ('72 to '80) and the later four speed cars ('81
to '89).
So lets see - the only other semi-official post on the subject, OK
Don's,
agrees with me.
--
OK Don, KD5NRO
Norman, OK
The Americans will always do the right thing... after they've
exhausted all the alternatives.
Sir Winston Churchill
'90 300D, '87 300SDL, '81 240D, '78 450SLC, '97 Ply Grand Voyager
___
http://www.okiebenz.com
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For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: [MBZ] HOW MANY GEARS IN 300D transmission
Perhaps no one is reading everything in detail - we're all responding to bits, not the whole. I read the alldata sheet by scanning to what I know on it, the 107, but didn't read the date range. It's also time to move on --- On 10/23/06, Michael Hall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The data is for a particular set of years. I never said it was good for 107 cars, I said it was good for an 83 300CD. All data, at least my version, doesn't go back before 82. I did say, TWICE, that early 4.5L V8's had 3 speeds. Why is everyone so insistant that I'm wrong? Mike -- OK Don, KD5NRO Norman, OK The Americans will always do the right thing... after they've exhausted all the alternatives. Sir Winston Churchill '90 300D, '87 300SDL, '81 240D, '78 450SLC, '97 Ply Grand Voyager
Re: [MBZ] HOW MANY GEARS IN 300D transmission
There are no trans manuals, they are on microfiche. That info is also in the training tapes, which I happen to own. Luther wrote: Neither the 123 or 126 manuals say anything about first or second gear start. http://mb.braingears.com/123_DISK2/program/OM/OM-50.pdf http://mb.braingears.com/126_DISC2/program/OM/OM-59.pdf Maybe the actual transmission manuals (rare as Kaleb buying a new car) would say something for sure. -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK 91 300D 2.5 Turbo, 90 420SEL, 89 560SEL, 87 300SDL, 87 300SDL #2, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro, 84 190D 2.2, 84 190D 2.2 #2, 81 240D, 76 240D, 76 300D, 72 250C, 69 250 http://www.striplin.net
Re: [MBZ] HOW MANY GEARS IN 300D transmission
Are you talkin to me? Because what you're saying doesn't make anything I've said wrong. Went to the shop today, printed to Microsoft Office Document Imaging (ie .MDI) the MB specified values for starting gear given throttle position; I can't provide a document number, but will post a printout as soon as I convert it to a .pdf. I can email anyone interested a copy of the MDI in the mean time. In the mean time, I can give you guys they synopsis. According to MB, the following are the starting gears for transmissions by chassis/ engine type. with selector in D Chassis 107,123, 126 with engine 110, or 617.95 - 2ND GEAR START 103 motor in 107, 124, and 126 - 2ND GEAR START 116 Motor and 117 Motor in 107 126 Chassis - 2ND GEAR START 603.96 in the 124 and 126 Chassis - 1ST GEAR START Argue all you want, this proves I'm write. I am not, however, infallible - I wrote earlier that an 83 300D has a 722.315 - thats not entirely correct - it could also have a 722.416 depending on application. If you'd like to argue with that, please have some sort of documentation to back up your talking - Oh my car did this or all the ones I've seen did this is not documentation This thread has become comical to me. Mike On 10/22/06, Mike Canfield [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey Michael...Anyone who has ever driven a non-turbo MBZ knows they start out in second gear unless you tromp it all the way to the floor. I would say YOU are the one who is wrong. Mike - Original Message - From: Kaleb C. Striplin [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 7:03 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] HOW MANY GEARS IN 300D transmission Whatever you say, I guess I am wrong. I have half a dozen of those cars here at any given moment and they all start in 1st. I have had 50+ of both turbo, non turbo, and gas cars, over the last 15 years and all the turbo cars started in 1st, non turbo started in 2nd, with first gear start via kickdown. MB owners manual for 82 300D says D all gears available, manual for 78 which would be non turbo says D all gears available(first gear start), first gear can only be engaged by means of kickdown(2nd gear start). Sort of figured having that many cars over that period of time all starting in 1st would be a good clue thats how they are supposed to be. I guess all my cars over that time have had something wrong with them. Owners manual is also incorrect it seems. Michael Hall wrote: Except you're wrong. And saying you're right doesn't make you right, it just makes you look like like some hillbilly from OK that dismantles MB's in his backyard and thinks that make him an expert. Maybe you'll understand better if I say: BZZZT - wrong Mike On 10/20/06, Kaleb C. Striplin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: except that I am right. Michael Hall wrote: You can say it as often as you want, it doesn't make you right.
Re: [MBZ] HOW MANY GEARS IN 300D transmission
Well, you still didn't provide enough detail - the 107 with the cast rion block (3.5 and 4.5) 117 engines have a three speed tranny (722.004), and start in first. The later 107 had either the 3.8 or 5.6 aluminum block 117 engines, with a 4 speed tranny. I don't know which gear they start in. On 10/22/06, Michael Hall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Are you talkin to me? Because what you're saying doesn't make anything I've said wrong. Went to the shop today, printed to Microsoft Office Document Imaging (ie .MDI) the MB specified values for starting gear given throttle position; I can't provide a document number, but will post a printout as soon as I convert it to a .pdf. I can email anyone interested a copy of the MDI in the mean time. In the mean time, I can give you guys they synopsis. According to MB, the following are the starting gears for transmissions by chassis/ engine type. with selector in D Chassis 107,123, 126 with engine 110, or 617.95 - 2ND GEAR START 103 motor in 107, 124, and 126 - 2ND GEAR START 116 Motor and 117 Motor in 107 126 Chassis - 2ND GEAR START 603.96 in the 124 and 126 Chassis - 1ST GEAR START Argue all you want, this proves I'm write. I am not, however, infallible - I wrote earlier that an 83 300D has a 722.315 - thats not entirely correct - it could also have a 722.416 depending on application. If you'd like to argue with that, please have some sort of documentation to back up your talking - Oh my car did this or all the ones I've seen did this is not documentation This thread has become comical to me. Mike -- OK Don, KD5NRO Norman, OK The Americans will always do the right thing... after they've exhausted all the alternatives. Sir Winston Churchill '90 300D, '87 300SDL, '81 240D, '78 450SLC, '97 Ply Grand Voyager
Re: [MBZ] HOW MANY GEARS IN 300D transmission
OK, now we all know you are write. Michael Hall wrote: Are you talkin to me? Because what you're saying doesn't make anything I've said wrong. Went to the shop today, printed to Microsoft Office Document Imaging (ie .MDI) the MB specified values for starting gear given throttle position; I can't provide a document number, but will post a printout as soon as I convert it to a .pdf. I can email anyone interested a copy of the MDI in the mean time. In the mean time, I can give you guys they synopsis. According to MB, the following are the starting gears for transmissions by chassis/ engine type. with selector in D Chassis 107,123, 126 with engine 110, or 617.95 - 2ND GEAR START 103 motor in 107, 124, and 126 - 2ND GEAR START 116 Motor and 117 Motor in 107 126 Chassis - 2ND GEAR START 603.96 in the 124 and 126 Chassis - 1ST GEAR START Argue all you want, this proves I'm write. I am not, however, infallible - I wrote earlier that an 83 300D has a 722.315 - thats not entirely correct - it could also have a 722.416 depending on application. If you'd like to argue with that, please have some sort of documentation to back up your talking - Oh my car did this or all the ones I've seen did this is not documentation This thread has become comical to me. Mike -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK 91 300D 2.5 Turbo, 90 420SEL, 89 560SEL, 87 300SDL, 87 300SDL #2, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro, 84 190D 2.2, 84 190D 2.2 #2, 81 240D, 76 240D, 76 300D, 72 250C, 69 250 http://www.striplin.net
Re: [MBZ] HOW MANY GEARS IN 300D transmission
I said earlier that the 4.5 L 117's have the 3 speed and start in first. Dunno where you're getting the 3.5 info, thats older than I have info for. Do I need to repeat everything I've ever said? Mike On 10/22/06, OK Don [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, you still didn't provide enough detail - the 107 with the cast rion block (3.5 and 4.5) 117 engines have a three speed tranny (722.004), and start in first. The later 107 had either the 3.8 or 5.6 aluminum block 117 engines, with a 4 speed tranny. I don't know which gear they start in. On 10/22/06, Michael Hall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Are you talkin to me? Because what you're saying doesn't make anything I've said wrong. Went to the shop today, printed to Microsoft Office Document Imaging (ie .MDI) the MB specified values for starting gear given throttle position; I can't provide a document number, but will post a printout as soon as I convert it to a .pdf. I can email anyone interested a copy of the MDI in the mean time. In the mean time, I can give you guys they synopsis. According to MB, the following are the starting gears for transmissions by chassis/ engine type. with selector in D Chassis 107,123, 126 with engine 110, or 617.95 - 2ND GEAR START 103 motor in 107, 124, and 126 - 2ND GEAR START 116 Motor and 117 Motor in 107 126 Chassis - 2ND GEAR START 603.96 in the 124 and 126 Chassis - 1ST GEAR START Argue all you want, this proves I'm write. I am not, however, infallible - I wrote earlier that an 83 300D has a 722.315 - thats not entirely correct - it could also have a 722.416 depending on application. If you'd like to argue with that, please have some sort of documentation to back up your talking - Oh my car did this or all the ones I've seen did this is not documentation This thread has become comical to me. Mike -- OK Don, KD5NRO Norman, OK The Americans will always do the right thing... after they've exhausted all the alternatives. Sir Winston Churchill '90 300D, '87 300SDL, '81 240D, '78 450SLC, '97 Ply Grand Voyager ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] HOW MANY GEARS IN 300D transmission
The 107 never came with a 617, so Im not sure why those would be lumped together. The 103 never came in the 107 either. This info doesnt make sense. OK Don wrote: Well, you still didn't provide enough detail - the 107 with the cast rion block (3.5 and 4.5) 117 engines have a three speed tranny (722.004), and start in first. The later 107 had either the 3.8 or 5.6 aluminum block 117 engines, with a 4 speed tranny. I don't know which gear they start in. -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK 91 300D 2.5 Turbo, 90 420SEL, 89 560SEL, 87 300SDL, 87 300SDL #2, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro, 84 190D 2.2, 84 190D 2.2 #2, 81 240D, 76 240D, 76 300D, 72 250C, 69 250 http://www.striplin.net
Re: [MBZ] HOW MANY GEARS IN 300D transmission
Yeah, your ability to write english better than I makes you right about everything. Never mind the fact that English is the 3RD language I learned In my life, of the 4 I know. Mike On 10/22/06, Kaleb C. Striplin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: OK, now we all know you are write. Michael Hall wrote: Are you talkin to me? Because what you're saying doesn't make anything I've said wrong. Went to the shop today, printed to Microsoft Office Document Imaging (ie .MDI) the MB specified values for starting gear given throttle position; I can't provide a document number, but will post a printout as soon as I convert it to a .pdf. I can email anyone interested a copy of the MDI in the mean time. In the mean time, I can give you guys they synopsis. According to MB, the following are the starting gears for transmissions by chassis/ engine type. with selector in D Chassis 107,123, 126 with engine 110, or 617.95 - 2ND GEAR START 103 motor in 107, 124, and 126 - 2ND GEAR START 116 Motor and 117 Motor in 107 126 Chassis - 2ND GEAR START 603.96 in the 124 and 126 Chassis - 1ST GEAR START Argue all you want, this proves I'm write. I am not, however, infallible - I wrote earlier that an 83 300D has a 722.315 - thats not entirely correct - it could also have a 722.416 depending on application. If you'd like to argue with that, please have some sort of documentation to back up your talking - Oh my car did this or all the ones I've seen did this is not documentation This thread has become comical to me. Mike -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK 91 300D 2.5 Turbo, 90 420SEL, 89 560SEL, 87 300SDL, 87 300SDL #2, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro, 84 190D 2.2, 84 190D 2.2 #2, 81 240D, 76 240D, 76 300D, 72 250C, 69 250 http://www.striplin.net ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] HOW MANY GEARS IN 300D transmission
The 3.5 and 4.5 were available at the same time. Michael Hall wrote: I said earlier that the 4.5 L 117's have the 3 speed and start in first. Dunno where you're getting the 3.5 info, thats older than I have info for. Do I need to repeat everything I've ever said? Mike -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK 91 300D 2.5 Turbo, 90 420SEL, 89 560SEL, 87 300SDL, 87 300SDL #2, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro, 84 190D 2.2, 84 190D 2.2 #2, 81 240D, 76 240D, 76 300D, 72 250C, 69 250 http://www.striplin.net
Re: [MBZ] HOW MANY GEARS IN 300D transmission
Who said they did? They're probaly lumped together becuase they opperate similiarly, either becuase they havve similair internals, similiar design of internals, or purly by luck. Mike On 10/22/06, Kaleb C. Striplin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The 107 never came with a 617, so Im not sure why those would be lumped together. The 103 never came in the 107 either. This info doesnt make sense. OK Don wrote: Well, you still didn't provide enough detail - the 107 with the cast rion block (3.5 and 4.5) 117 engines have a three speed tranny (722.004), and start in first. The later 107 had either the 3.8 or 5.6 aluminum block 117 engines, with a 4 speed tranny. I don't know which gear they start in. -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK 91 300D 2.5 Turbo, 90 420SEL, 89 560SEL, 87 300SDL, 87 300SDL #2, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro, 84 190D 2.2, 84 190D 2.2 #2, 81 240D, 76 240D, 76 300D, 72 250C, 69 250 http://www.striplin.net ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] HOW MANY GEARS IN 300D transmission
Well, the MB document I quoted from is doesn't explicitly cover those motors. You'll see what I mean when I post it. On 10/22/06, Kaleb C. Striplin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The 3.5 and 4.5 were available at the same time. Michael Hall wrote: I said earlier that the 4.5 L 117's have the 3 speed and start in first. Dunno where you're getting the 3.5 info, thats older than I have info for. Do I need to repeat everything I've ever said? Mike -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK 91 300D 2.5 Turbo, 90 420SEL, 89 560SEL, 87 300SDL, 87 300SDL #2, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro, 84 190D 2.2, 84 190D 2.2 #2, 81 240D, 76 240D, 76 300D, 72 250C, 69 250 http://www.striplin.net ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] HOW MANY GEARS IN 300D transmission
ok Michael Hall wrote: Well, the MB document I quoted from is doesn't explicitly cover those motors. You'll see what I mean when I post it. -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK 91 300D 2.5 Turbo, 90 420SEL, 89 560SEL, 87 300SDL, 87 300SDL #2, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro, 84 190D 2.2, 84 190D 2.2 #2, 81 240D, 76 240D, 76 300D, 72 250C, 69 250 http://www.striplin.net
Re: [MBZ] HOW MANY GEARS IN 300D transmission
This is alldata information, not information from MBNA. You need to come up with something official. Alldata can be and often is wrong. Michael Hall wrote: To those still interested in this thread; http://www.easttennesseeonlinemarketing.com/jareks/techinicalinfo/TransDebate.html Still doubt me? Mike On 10/22/06, Michael Hall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Are you talkin to me? Because what you're saying doesn't make anything I've said wrong. Went to the shop today, printed to Microsoft Office Document Imaging (ie .MDI) the MB specified values for starting gear given throttle position; I can't provide a document number, but will post a printout as soon as I convert it to a .pdf. I can email anyone interested a copy of the MDI in the mean time. In the mean time, I can give you guys they synopsis. According to MB, the following are the starting gears for transmissions by chassis/ engine type. with selector in D Chassis 107,123, 126 with engine 110, or 617.95 - 2ND GEAR START 103 motor in 107, 124, and 126 - 2ND GEAR START 116 Motor and 117 Motor in 107 126 Chassis - 2ND GEAR START 603.96 in the 124 and 126 Chassis - 1ST GEAR START Argue all you want, this proves I'm write. I am not, however, infallible - I wrote earlier that an 83 300D has a 722.315 - thats not entirely correct - it could also have a 722.416 depending on application. If you'd like to argue with that, please have some sort of documentation to back up your talking - Oh my car did this or all the ones I've seen did this is not documentation This thread has become comical to me. Mike On 10/22/06, Mike Canfield [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey Michael...Anyone who has ever driven a non-turbo MBZ knows they start out in second gear unless you tromp it all the way to the floor. I would say YOU are the one who is wrong. Mike - Original Message - From: Kaleb C. Striplin [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 7:03 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] HOW MANY GEARS IN 300D transmission Whatever you say, I guess I am wrong. I have half a dozen of those cars here at any given moment and they all start in 1st. I have had 50+ of both turbo, non turbo, and gas cars, over the last 15 years and all the turbo cars started in 1st, non turbo started in 2nd, with first gear start via kickdown. MB owners manual for 82 300D says D all gears available, manual for 78 which would be non turbo says D all gears available(first gear start), first gear can only be engaged by means of kickdown(2nd gear start). Sort of figured having that many cars over that period of time all starting in 1st would be a good clue thats how they are supposed to be. I guess all my cars over that time have had something wrong with them. Owners manual is also incorrect it seems. Michael Hall wrote: Except you're wrong. And saying you're right doesn't make you right, it just makes you look like like some hillbilly from OK that dismantles MB's in his backyard and thinks that make him an expert. Maybe you'll understand better if I say: BZZZT - wrong Mike On 10/20/06, Kaleb C. Striplin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: except that I am right. Michael Hall wrote: You can say it as often as you want, it doesn't make you right. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK 91 300D 2.5 Turbo, 90 420SEL, 89 560SEL, 87 300SDL, 87 300SDL #2, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro, 84 190D 2.2, 84 190D 2.2 #2, 81 240D, 76 240D, 76 300D, 72 250C, 69 250 http://www.striplin.net
Re: [MBZ] HOW MANY GEARS IN 300D transmission
Its Alldata info that is clearly scanned in copies of MB technical data - the most reliable source of ELECTRONIC W123 documentation that I have access to. WIS doesn't cover W123's - at least my copy doesn't, so I can't give you document numbers, but I presume it would be found under 27.00 to 27.10 or thereabouts. And, either way, its alot more substantial than you, or anyone else, saying my car behave this way so thats how it should be. No one has provided contradicting data that would qualify as more complete or accurate than this. Until they do, I'll consider myself correct. Mike On 10/22/06, Kaleb C. Striplin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is alldata information, not information from MBNA. You need to come up with something official. Alldata can be and often is wrong. Michael Hall wrote: To those still interested in this thread; http://www.easttennesseeonlinemarketing.com/jareks/techinicalinfo/TransDebate.html Still doubt me? Mike On 10/22/06, Michael Hall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Are you talkin to me? Because what you're saying doesn't make anything I've said wrong. Went to the shop today, printed to Microsoft Office Document Imaging (ie .MDI) the MB specified values for starting gear given throttle position; I can't provide a document number, but will post a printout as soon as I convert it to a .pdf. I can email anyone interested a copy of the MDI in the mean time. In the mean time, I can give you guys they synopsis. According to MB, the following are the starting gears for transmissions by chassis/ engine type. with selector in D Chassis 107,123, 126 with engine 110, or 617.95 - 2ND GEAR START 103 motor in 107, 124, and 126 - 2ND GEAR START 116 Motor and 117 Motor in 107 126 Chassis - 2ND GEAR START 603.96 in the 124 and 126 Chassis - 1ST GEAR START Argue all you want, this proves I'm write. I am not, however, infallible - I wrote earlier that an 83 300D has a 722.315 - thats not entirely correct - it could also have a 722.416 depending on application. If you'd like to argue with that, please have some sort of documentation to back up your talking - Oh my car did this or all the ones I've seen did this is not documentation This thread has become comical to me. Mike On 10/22/06, Mike Canfield [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey Michael...Anyone who has ever driven a non-turbo MBZ knows they start out in second gear unless you tromp it all the way to the floor. I would say YOU are the one who is wrong. Mike - Original Message - From: Kaleb C. Striplin [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 7:03 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] HOW MANY GEARS IN 300D transmission Whatever you say, I guess I am wrong. I have half a dozen of those cars here at any given moment and they all start in 1st. I have had 50+ of both turbo, non turbo, and gas cars, over the last 15 years and all the turbo cars started in 1st, non turbo started in 2nd, with first gear start via kickdown. MB owners manual for 82 300D says D all gears available, manual for 78 which would be non turbo says D all gears available(first gear start), first gear can only be engaged by means of kickdown(2nd gear start). Sort of figured having that many cars over that period of time all starting in 1st would be a good clue thats how they are supposed to be. I guess all my cars over that time have had something wrong with them. Owners manual is also incorrect it seems. Michael Hall wrote: Except you're wrong. And saying you're right doesn't make you right, it just makes you look like like some hillbilly from OK that dismantles MB's in his backyard and thinks that make him an expert. Maybe you'll understand better if I say: BZZZT - wrong Mike On 10/20/06, Kaleb C. Striplin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: except that I am right. Michael Hall wrote: You can say it as often as you want, it doesn't make you right. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK 91 300D 2.5 Turbo, 90 420SEL, 89 560SEL, 87 300SDL, 87 300SDL #2, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro, 84 190D 2.2, 84 190D 2.2 #2, 81 240D, 76 240D, 76 300D, 72 250C, 69 250 http://www.striplin.net ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] HOW MANY GEARS IN 300D transmission
I want to see a copy of the transmission manuals OR where in the regular chassis factory manual that these things are said. If Alldata is previously suspect, they can be on this also. On Sun, 22 Oct 2006 21:53:40 -0500, Michael Hall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Its Alldata info that is clearly scanned in copies of MB technical data - the most reliable source of ELECTRONIC W123 documentation that I have access to. WIS doesn't cover W123's - at least my copy doesn't, so I can't give you document numbers, but I presume it would be found under 27.00 to 27.10 or thereabouts. And, either way, its alot more substantial than you, or anyone else, saying my car behave this way so thats how it should be. No one has provided contradicting data that would qualify as more complete or accurate than this. Until they do, I'll consider myself correct. Mike On 10/22/06, Kaleb C. Striplin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is alldata information, not information from MBNA. You need to come up with something official. Alldata can be and often is wrong. -- Luther KB5QHU Alma, Ark '87 300SDL (270,491 mi) head case? '83 300SD (241 kmi) '82 300CD (162 kmi) '82 300D (74 kmi) needs MAJOR engine work
Re: [MBZ] HOW MANY GEARS IN 300D transmission
I would too, but I don't have access to it. Its not like All Data made this data up - most of All Data's technical info comes directly from Manufacturer's literature, and judging by the format of this information, it comes from an MB document. I certainly give more weight to this document than any number of backyard mechanics saying otherwise. If someone has information that can be more directly traced to official documents, I would certainly defer to that information over this. Up to now, however, no one has stepped up with that info. Until someone does come up with contradicting data, I will still consider myself correct. Mike On 10/22/06, Luther Gulseth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I want to see a copy of the transmission manuals OR where in the regular chassis factory manual that these things are said. If Alldata is previously suspect, they can be on this also. On Sun, 22 Oct 2006 21:53:40 -0500, Michael Hall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Its Alldata info that is clearly scanned in copies of MB technical data - the most reliable source of ELECTRONIC W123 documentation that I have access to. WIS doesn't cover W123's - at least my copy doesn't, so I can't give you document numbers, but I presume it would be found under 27.00 to 27.10or thereabouts. And, either way, its alot more substantial than you, or anyone else, saying my car behave this way so thats how it should be. No one has provided contradicting data that would qualify as more complete or accurate than this. Until they do, I'll consider myself correct. Mike On 10/22/06, Kaleb C. Striplin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is alldata information, not information from MBNA. You need to come up with something official. Alldata can be and often is wrong. -- Luther KB5QHU Alma, Ark '87 300SDL (270,491 mi) head case? '83 300SD (241 kmi) '82 300CD (162 kmi) '82 300D (74 kmi) needs MAJOR engine work ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] HOW MANY GEARS IN 300D transmission
alldata is very suspect. Here is how it boils down, we have 15 years and dozens and dozens of cars worth of experience, or some info somewhere from alldata. You decide. Just from my own experience. I cant see how every 123 and 126 turbo car I have had over the last 15 years has all had the same exact problem as mike says it must be. Show me MB info, and I will believe it. Alldata doesnt cut it. Luther Gulseth wrote: I want to see a copy of the transmission manuals OR where in the regular chassis factory manual that these things are said. If Alldata is previously suspect, they can be on this also. On Sun, 22 Oct 2006 21:53:40 -0500, Michael Hall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Its Alldata info that is clearly scanned in copies of MB technical data - the most reliable source of ELECTRONIC W123 documentation that I have access to. WIS doesn't cover W123's - at least my copy doesn't, so I can't give you document numbers, but I presume it would be found under 27.00 to 27.10 or thereabouts. And, either way, its alot more substantial than you, or anyone else, saying my car behave this way so thats how it should be. No one has provided contradicting data that would qualify as more complete or accurate than this. Until they do, I'll consider myself correct. Mike On 10/22/06, Kaleb C. Striplin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is alldata information, not information from MBNA. You need to come up with something official. Alldata can be and often is wrong. -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK 91 300D 2.5 Turbo, 90 420SEL, 89 560SEL, 87 300SDL, 87 300SDL #2, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro, 84 190D 2.2, 84 190D 2.2 #2, 81 240D, 76 240D, 76 300D, 72 250C, 69 250 http://www.striplin.net
Re: [MBZ] HOW MANY GEARS IN 300D transmission
On 10/23/06, Kaleb C. Striplin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: alldata is very suspect. Why? In particular, what makes this information suspect, other than it proving you wrong? Are you claiming alldata made up this information? Here is how it boils down, we have 15 years and dozens and dozens of cars worth of experience, or some info somewhere from alldata. And I have many years and many cars of experience working on these cars. You decide. Just from my own experience. I cant see how every 123 and 126 turbo car I have had over the last 15 years has all had the same exact problem as mike says it must be. I'm not saying there must be a problem with every car you've owned, I'm just saying your wrong that The 123 and 126 turbo cars start in FIRST. All I claim is this data is correct for an 83 300CD, and that particular car should start in 2nd gear, which mine does. I've presented a source of information, ie All Data, which most people would consider a reputable souce, that I contend has greater merit than your anecdotal data, which is at best a tertiarysource, and at worst severely suspect. It is my belief that the data I've provided is a transcription of the MB data, and is therefore a secondary source. You can call it suspect, you can even call it incorrect, but in doing so I would expect you to provide contradictory information that would hold up to the same burden on proof. All you doubters out there have yet to provide ANY type of documention that contradicts my information. I welcome any of you to do so. Otherwise, a logical person would conclude that I am correct. Mike Show me MB info, and I will believe it. Alldata doesnt cut it. Luther Gulseth wrote: I want to see a copy of the transmission manuals OR where in the regular chassis factory manual that these things are said. If Alldata is previously suspect, they can be on this also. On Sun, 22 Oct 2006 21:53:40 -0500, Michael Hall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Its Alldata info that is clearly scanned in copies of MB technical data - the most reliable source of ELECTRONIC W123 documentation that I have access to. WIS doesn't cover W123's - at least my copy doesn't, so I can't give you document numbers, but I presume it would be found under 27.00 to 27.10or thereabouts. And, either way, its alot more substantial than you, or anyone else, saying my car behave this way so thats how it should be. No one has provided contradicting data that would qualify as more complete or accurate than this. Until they do, I'll consider myself correct. Mike On 10/22/06, Kaleb C. Striplin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is alldata information, not information from MBNA. You need to come up with something official. Alldata can be and often is wrong. -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK 91 300D 2.5 Turbo, 90 420SEL, 89 560SEL, 87 300SDL, 87 300SDL #2, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro, 84 190D 2.2, 84 190D 2.2 #2, 81 240D, 76 240D, 76 300D, 72 250C, 69 250 http://www.striplin.net ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] HOW MANY GEARS IN 300D transmission
Children Children Children, play nice. Personally I can see the reason why turbo Diesels would start in first, it is a matter of spinning up the mill to get turbo pressure. Anybody who has had anything to do with turbo Diesel engines will tell you about turbo lag, that period (usally below 1500rpms) where the engine won't pull well because the turbo is not charging the compression chamber. How did Merc overcome this problem? Well they could have lowered the diff ratio but there are problems with doing this. They could have increased the cubic capacity of the engine but that would be overkill and too American. However they had an ace up their sleeve, already built into their non turbo carsanyone wanna guess? Anyway who gives a rats arse, as long as the bloody thing is working. Hendrik with 4 gears in the auto Benz and a second gear start...normally - Original Message - From: Michael Hall [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Monday, October 23, 2006 2:28 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] HOW MANY GEARS IN 300D transmission
Re: [MBZ] HOW MANY GEARS IN 300D transmission
But you're talking about Klebbie, not a normal, logical person. _ Frank Pembleton Manchester, MO KLEB FOR PREZ!! -Original Message- From: Michael Hall Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2006 11:59 PM Otherwise, a logical person would conclude that I am correct. Mike
Re: [MBZ] HOW MANY GEARS IN 300D transmission
No wonder Marshall is gone. Mike On 10/23/06, Frank Pembleton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: But you're talking about Klebbie, not a normal, logical person. _ Frank Pembleton Manchester, MO KLEB FOR PREZ!! -Original Message- From: Michael Hall Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2006 11:59 PM Otherwise, a logical person would conclude that I am correct. Mike ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] HOW MANY GEARS IN 300D transmission
I miss MarshallThis thread would have been over long ago with just a few of his wise words.Where'd ya go Dok? Mike - Original Message - From: Michael Hall [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Monday, October 23, 2006 8:24 AM Subject: Re: [MBZ] HOW MANY GEARS IN 300D transmission No wonder Marshall is gone. Mike On 10/23/06, Frank Pembleton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: But you're talking about Klebbie, not a normal, logical person. _ Frank Pembleton Manchester, MO KLEB FOR PREZ!! -Original Message- From: Michael Hall Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2006 11:59 PM Otherwise, a logical person would conclude that I am correct. Mike ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] HOW MANY GEARS IN 300D transmission
Anybody who has had anything to do with turbo Diesel engines will tell you about turbo lag, that period (usally below 1500rpms) where the engine won't pull well because the turbo is not charging the compression chamber. Having driven the 190D 2.5 (stick) for awhile, something that seems to lack the torque of ever other diesel I've got experience with, I definitely find myself waiting for that turbo to kick in. Too bad it doesn't have one! The engine has sufficient horsepower, I don't think it's sick or anything, it just seems to make power by revving up, like a weenie little gasser, rather than having much low-end torque. So far I've got to say that it's far from my favorite MB, I'm not really that fond of it at all. The 42 MPG is a bit endearing, though. It's just got quite a few problems to still sort out, especially in the handling department. Not a joy to drive. Not yet, anyway. Then there's the rust... On-topic (sort of), it has five gears. Can't see much point to fifth, though. It may be that the gear ratios are wrong for this engine/differential combination. (I kept the original diff, the one that went with the tranny is still on the parts car.) -- Jim
Re: [MBZ] HOW MANY GEARS IN 300D transmission
Perhaps the belief that anecdotal data gathered by a junk yard operator is superior to real repair and diagnostic information scared him off - this certainly isn't the first instance. Or the underlying belief by many on this list that he [Marshall, no Kaleb] was essentially God, which must get boring after a while [as apposed to Kaleb, who thinks he's God but most people don't agree, so he's entertained trying to prove he is]. Either way, he's now on the MBCA forums now, where rational minds prevail (I assume/ hope/ dream.) I wonder if you have to be in MBCA to be on the forums. Mike On 10/23/06, Mike Canfield [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I miss MarshallThis thread would have been over long ago with just a few of his wise words.Where'd ya go Dok? Mike - Original Message - From: Michael Hall [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Monday, October 23, 2006 8:24 AM Subject: Re: [MBZ] HOW MANY GEARS IN 300D transmission No wonder Marshall is gone. Mike On 10/23/06, Frank Pembleton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: But you're talking about Klebbie, not a normal, logical person. _ Frank Pembleton Manchester, MO KLEB FOR PREZ!! -Original Message- From: Michael Hall Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2006 11:59 PM Otherwise, a logical person would conclude that I am correct. Mike
Re: [MBZ] HOW MANY GEARS IN 300D transmission
Jim, Sounds like you already know the solution to your power problem..It's just plain geared wrong. Mike - Original Message - From: Jim Cathey [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Monday, October 23, 2006 9:31 AM Subject: Re: [MBZ] HOW MANY GEARS IN 300D transmission Anybody who has had anything to do with turbo Diesel engines will tell you about turbo lag, that period (usally below 1500rpms) where the engine won't pull well because the turbo is not charging the compression chamber. Having driven the 190D 2.5 (stick) for awhile, something that seems to lack the torque of ever other diesel I've got experience with, I definitely find myself waiting for that turbo to kick in. Too bad it doesn't have one! The engine has sufficient horsepower, I don't think it's sick or anything, it just seems to make power by revving up, like a weenie little gasser, rather than having much low-end torque. So far I've got to say that it's far from my favorite MB, I'm not really that fond of it at all. The 42 MPG is a bit endearing, though. It's just got quite a few problems to still sort out, especially in the handling department. Not a joy to drive. Not yet, anyway. Then there's the rust... On-topic (sort of), it has five gears. Can't see much point to fifth, though. It may be that the gear ratios are wrong for this engine/differential combination. (I kept the original diff, the one that went with the tranny is still on the parts car.) -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] HOW MANY GEARS IN 300D transmission
Sounds reasonable enough I guess..Was just hoping all is well and it is. Mike - Original Message - From: Michael Hall [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Monday, October 23, 2006 9:16 AM Subject: Re: [MBZ] HOW MANY GEARS IN 300D transmission Perhaps the belief that anecdotal data gathered by a junk yard operator is superior to real repair and diagnostic information scared him off - this certainly isn't the first instance. Or the underlying belief by many on this list that he [Marshall, no Kaleb] was essentially God, which must get boring after a while [as apposed to Kaleb, who thinks he's God but most people don't agree, so he's entertained trying to prove he is]. Either way, he's now on the MBCA forums now, where rational minds prevail (I assume/ hope/ dream.) I wonder if you have to be in MBCA to be on the forums. Mike On 10/23/06, Mike Canfield [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I miss MarshallThis thread would have been over long ago with just a few of his wise words.Where'd ya go Dok? Mike - Original Message - From: Michael Hall [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Monday, October 23, 2006 8:24 AM Subject: Re: [MBZ] HOW MANY GEARS IN 300D transmission No wonder Marshall is gone. Mike On 10/23/06, Frank Pembleton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: But you're talking about Klebbie, not a normal, logical person. _ Frank Pembleton Manchester, MO KLEB FOR PREZ!! -Original Message- From: Michael Hall Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2006 11:59 PM Otherwise, a logical person would conclude that I am correct. Mike ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] HOW MANY GEARS IN 300D transmission
Mike, NO! Chuck Phoenix AZ On Oct 23, 2006, at 6:16 AM, Michael Hall wrote: I wonder if you have to be in MBCA to be on the forums? Mike
Re: [MBZ] HOW MANY GEARS IN 300D transmission
You all could read the oner's manual --- a primary source. It's on the CD if you don't have the one that came with the car. You can call it suspect, you can even call it incorrect, but in doing so I would expect you to provide contradictory information that would hold up to the same burden on proof. All you doubters out there have yet to provide ANY type of documention that contradicts my information. I welcome any of you to do so. -- OK Don, KD5NRO Norman, OK The Americans will always do the right thing... after they've exhausted all the alternatives. Sir Winston Churchill '90 300D, '87 300SDL, '81 240D, '78 450SLC, '97 Ply Grand Voyager
Re: [MBZ] HOW MANY GEARS IN 300D transmission
What would be the fun in that? Mike On 10/23/06, OK Don [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You all could read the oner's manual --- a primary source. It's on the CD if you don't have the one that came with the car. You can call it suspect, you can even call it incorrect, but in doing so I would expect you to provide contradictory information that would hold up to the same burden on proof. All you doubters out there have yet to provide ANY type of documention that contradicts my information. I welcome any of you to do so. -- OK Don, KD5NRO Norman, OK The Americans will always do the right thing... after they've exhausted all the alternatives. Sir Winston Churchill '90 300D, '87 300SDL, '81 240D, '78 450SLC, '97 Ply Grand Voyager ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] HOW MANY GEARS IN 300D transmission
Jim, I think you'd want the 2.2l diff in there for 5th to be useful. It seems like the diff from the auto car would be a bit higher. My 2.2l is fine to drive in 5th even last weekend hauling a woodstove back from CT. On small hills I'd need to be sure to keep my speed up or need to shift down and on big hills I'd always need to shift down but it wasn't bad at all. Normally with just me in the car theres only 2 hills on my commute that need 4th gear. But I agree much less torquy feeling than my 240D was. -Curt - Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less. From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mon Oct 23 18:09:21 2006 Received: from pmail15c2.megamailservers.com ([69.49.111.205]) by server8.arterytc8.net with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.52) id 1Gc4Ei-0004dh-Vl; Mon, 23 Oct 2006 18:09:21 + Received: from pmail15c2.megamailservers.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pmail15c2.megamailservers.com (8.13.6/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k9NI9Eve022747 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 23 Oct 2006 14:09:15 -0400 Received: (from Unknown UID [EMAIL PROTECTED]) by pmail15c2.megamailservers.com (8.13.6/8.12.2/Submit) id k9NI9EFX022746; Mon, 23 Oct 2006 14:09:14 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: pmail15c2.megamailservers.com: Unknown UID 600 set sender to [EMAIL PROTECTED] using -f Received: from mail.usa-truck.com (mail.usa-truck.com [70.182.105.226]) by webmail.technostars.com (Webmail 2.0) with HTTP for [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Mon, 23 Oct 2006 13:09:14 -0500 Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 13:09:14 -0500 From: Luther [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: mercedes@okiebenz.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Webmail 4.0 X-Antivirus-Scanner: Clean mail though you should still use an Antivirus Subject: [MBZ] PA 300D for sale X-BeenThere: mercedes@okiebenz.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9.cp1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com List-Id: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes_okiebenz.com.okiebenz.com List-Unsubscribe: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com, mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] List-Archive: /pipermail/mercedes_okiebenz.com List-Post: mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com List-Help: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] List-Subscribe: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com, mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 18:09:21 - Copy of an email I received from another biodieseler. Luther, I have a 79 300D MB that I need to liquidate. It has 338K miles, I drove it until rust became a significant problem. I'm hoping to find someone who can use it, whole or parts before sending it to the crusher. It is tired, and hasn't run for several years. The car is at my place in York, PA. Please let me know whether you or a friend has any interest in it. Thanks. David Email me and I'll get you the email. -- Luther KB5QHU Alma, Ark '87 300SDL (270,491 mi) head case? '83 300SD (241 kmi) '82 300CD (162 kmi) '82 300D (74 kmi) needs MAJOR engine work
Re: [MBZ] HOW MANY GEARS IN 300D transmission
Neither the 123 or 126 manuals say anything about first or second gear start. http://mb.braingears.com/123_DISK2/program/OM/OM-50.pdf http://mb.braingears.com/126_DISC2/program/OM/OM-59.pdf Maybe the actual transmission manuals (rare as Kaleb buying a new car) would say something for sure. -- Luther KB5QHU Alma, Ark '87 300SDL (270,491 mi) head case? '83 300SD (241 kmi) '82 300CD (162 kmi) '82 300D (74 kmi) needs MAJOR engine work Quoting OK Don [EMAIL PROTECTED]: You all could read the owner's manual --- a primary source. It's on the CD if you don't have the one that came with the car. You can call it suspect, you can even call it incorrect, but in doing so I would expect you to provide contradictory information that would hold up to the same burden on proof. All you doubters out there have yet to provide ANY type of documention that contradicts my information. I welcome any of you to do so. -- OK Don, KD5NRO Norman, OK The Americans will always do the right thing... after they've exhausted all the alternatives. Sir Winston Churchill '90 300D, '87 300SDL, '81 240D, '78 450SLC, '97 Ply Grand Voyager
Re: [MBZ] HOW MANY GEARS IN 300D transmission
Ahh, I'd written a big thing but it all boils down to this - you're a jerk, you have no manners. Kaleb PAYS for this list to exist which is alot more than I can say for you. I've bought parts from Kaleb before so I figure I've in some small way help to support the list. Kaleb gives us anecdotal data, OK Don gives us quotes from a Mercedes manual, you give us AllData that frequently doesn't know how many cylinders a car has... Yes AllData is taken from the manufacturers documentation but the problem is its taken BY HAND. Mistakes are bound to happen... -Curt Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 09:16:09 -0400 From: Michael Hall [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [MBZ] HOW MANY GEARS IN 300D transmission To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Perhaps the belief that anecdotal data gathered by a junk yard operator is superior to real repair and diagnostic information scared him off - this certainly isn't the first instance. Or the underlying belief by many on this list that he [Marshall, no Kaleb] was essentially God, which must get boring after a while [as apposed to Kaleb, who thinks he's God but most people don't agree, so he's entertained trying to prove he is]. Either way, he's now on the MBCA forums now, where rational minds prevail (I assume/ hope/ dream.) I wonder if you have to be in MBCA to be on the forums. Mike - Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less. From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mon Oct 23 19:57:13 2006 Received: from pmail3c2.megamailservers.com ([69.49.111.193]) by server8.arterytc8.net with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.52) id 1Gc5v7-Hq-2L for mercedes@okiebenz.com; Mon, 23 Oct 2006 19:57:13 + Received: from pmail3c2.megamailservers.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pmail3c2.megamailservers.com (8.13.6/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k9NJv58t009650 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for mercedes@okiebenz.com; Mon, 23 Oct 2006 15:57:07 -0400 Received: (from Unknown UID [EMAIL PROTECTED]) by pmail3c2.megamailservers.com (8.13.6/8.12.2/Submit) id k9NJv5K8009649 for mercedes@okiebenz.com; Mon, 23 Oct 2006 15:57:05 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: pmail3c2.megamailservers.com: Unknown UID 600 set sender to [EMAIL PROTECTED] using -f Received: from mail.usa-truck.com (mail.usa-truck.com [70.182.105.226]) by webmail.technostars.com (Webmail 2.0) with HTTP for [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Mon, 23 Oct 2006 14:57:05 -0500 Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 14:57:05 -0500 From: Luther [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com References: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In-Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Webmail 4.0 X-Antivirus-Scanner: Clean mail though you should still use an Antivirus Subject: Re: [MBZ] my first engine pull X-BeenThere: mercedes@okiebenz.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9.cp1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com List-Id: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes_okiebenz.com.okiebenz.com List-Unsubscribe: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com, mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] List-Archive: /pipermail/mercedes_okiebenz.com List-Post: mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com List-Help: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] List-Subscribe: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com, mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 19:57:13 - Have a 12 pack handy. :) -- Luther KB5QHU Alma, Ark '87 300SDL (270,491 mi) head case? '83 300SD (241 kmi) '82 300CD (162 kmi) '82 300D (74 kmi) needs MAJOR engine work Quoting Tony Wirtel [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Thanks, Luther- short of wrestling w/the great dane, sounds more or less like the approach I'd be using... Tony Wirtel about 7-8 hours, but that is my first time AND there was plenty of time screwing around, pausing to think, talk, drink a brew, wrestle with his great dane, etc. I think the next engine we pull will go MUCH quicker. -- Luther KB5QHU Alma, Ark '87 300SDL (270,491 mi) head case? '83 300SD (241 kmi) '82 300CD (162 kmi) '82 300D (74 kmi) needs MAJOR engine work Quoting Tony Wirtel [EMAIL PROTECTED]: '82 300D done today. That was fun and easy, even on dirt! Luther: How many hours did it take? I'm thinking about transplanting a good 300sd motor into something else instead of fixing the rust. Tony Wirtel
Re: [MBZ] HOW MANY GEARS IN 300D transmission
The original owners manual in the glovebox does not say (so far as I can tell on a quick perusal in any event) how many gears my 76 300D has. All it really says is that it is an automatic transmission (which of course is fairly obvious even to the uninitiated). The manual is a combined version intended for the 240 and 300 and it does give some info about the 240 manual but next to nothing about the automatic. I guess they just intend one to push on the go pedal. Randy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Luther Sent: Monday, October 23, 2006 2:54 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] HOW MANY GEARS IN 300D transmission Neither the 123 or 126 manuals say anything about first or second gear start. http://mb.braingears.com/123_DISK2/program/OM/OM-50.pdf http://mb.braingears.com/126_DISC2/program/OM/OM-59.pdf Maybe the actual transmission manuals (rare as Kaleb buying a new car) would say something for sure. -- Luther KB5QHU
Re: [MBZ] HOW MANY GEARS IN 300D transmission
I've tried on several occasions to buy things from Kaleb. He doesn't seem to want to sell me anything. I'm a jerk because I refuse to let the list owner post false information? Okay, sure. Paying for the list is a joke. I think admin time is worth more than the fees related to hosting the list. OK Don's quote confirm what I'm saying, not what Kaleb says (suprise, suprise). But of course, Kaleb has bought many of these cars in the last XX years so he knows best. Nevermind that I've been involved in the PROFESSIONAL repair of MB's since I was 12. Unfortunatly, all my certifications are for cars that have computers in them. Nevermind that I've dissassembled and parted out at least 15 MBs - unfortunatly we've moved on to mostly 140 and 210 chassis's so I don't have a bunch of old terds in my backyard. Yes, mistakes happen over at All Data. But the document I provided is so obviously a direct copy of MB literature, as anyone who's actually read MB literature would know, so they would have had to go in and change things to make it wrong. Yeah, thats more believable than Kaleb being wrong. Nevermind that he asks the list questions on how to fix things and then seems to have considerable difficulty repairing them. He is the list God, he must be right. So lets see - the only other semi-official post on the subject, OK Don's, agrees with me. No, you're right, I'm a jerk and Kaleb is the reincarnation of Jesus Christ. Whatever. Mike On 10/23/06, Curt Raymond [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ahh, I'd written a big thing but it all boils down to this - you're a jerk, you have no manners. Kaleb PAYS for this list to exist which is alot more than I can say for you. I've bought parts from Kaleb before so I figure I've in some small way help to support the list. Kaleb gives us anecdotal data, OK Don gives us quotes from a Mercedes manual, you give us AllData that frequently doesn't know how many cylinders a car has... Yes AllData is taken from the manufacturers documentation but the problem is its taken BY HAND. Mistakes are bound to happen... -Curt Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 09:16:09 -0400 From: Michael Hall [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [MBZ] HOW MANY GEARS IN 300D transmission To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Perhaps the belief that anecdotal data gathered by a junk yard operator is superior to real repair and diagnostic information scared him off - this certainly isn't the first instance. Or the underlying belief by many on this list that he [Marshall, no Kaleb] was essentially God, which must get boring after a while [as apposed to Kaleb, who thinks he's God but most people don't agree, so he's entertained trying to prove he is]. Either way, he's now on the MBCA forums now, where rational minds prevail (I assume/ hope/ dream.) I wonder if you have to be in MBCA to be on the forums. Mike - Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] HOW MANY GEARS IN 300D transmission
Whatever you say, I guess I am wrong. I have half a dozen of those cars here at any given moment and they all start in 1st. I have had 50+ of both turbo, non turbo, and gas cars, over the last 15 years and all the turbo cars started in 1st, non turbo started in 2nd, with first gear start via kickdown. MB owners manual for 82 300D says D all gears available, manual for 78 which would be non turbo says D all gears available(first gear start), first gear can only be engaged by means of kickdown(2nd gear start). Sort of figured having that many cars over that period of time all starting in 1st would be a good clue thats how they are supposed to be. I guess all my cars over that time have had something wrong with them. Owners manual is also incorrect it seems. Michael Hall wrote: Except you're wrong. And saying you're right doesn't make you right, it just makes you look like like some hillbilly from OK that dismantles MB's in his backyard and thinks that make him an expert. Maybe you'll understand better if I say: BZZZT - wrong Mike On 10/20/06, Kaleb C. Striplin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: except that I am right. Michael Hall wrote: You can say it as often as you want, it doesn't make you right. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK 91 300D 2.5 Turbo, 90 420SEL, 89 560SEL, 87 300SDL, 87 300SDL #2, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro, 84 190D 2.2, 84 190D 2.2 #2, 81 240D, 76 240D, 76 300D, 72 250C, 69 250 http://www.striplin.net
Re: [MBZ] HOW MANY GEARS IN 300D transmission
Dont worry, its fixing to end real soon. Sunil Hari wrote: god this is turning into an oil thread ... -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK 91 300D 2.5 Turbo, 90 420SEL, 89 560SEL, 87 300SDL, 87 300SDL #2, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro, 84 190D 2.2, 84 190D 2.2 #2, 81 240D, 76 240D, 76 300D, 72 250C, 69 250 http://www.striplin.net
Re: [MBZ] HOW MANY GEARS IN 300D transmission
Someone find where the factory manual says that the transmission is suppose to start in first and then I'll believe them. On Sat, 21 Oct 2006 18:03:13 -0500, Kaleb C. Striplin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Whatever you say, I guess I am wrong. I have half a dozen of those cars here at any given moment and they all start in 1st. I have had 50+ of both turbo, non turbo, and gas cars, over the last 15 years and all the turbo cars started in 1st, non turbo started in 2nd, with first gear start via kickdown. MB owners manual for 82 300D says D all gears available, manual for 78 which would be non turbo says D all gears available(first gear start), first gear can only be engaged by means of kickdown(2nd gear start). Sort of figured having that many cars over that period of time all starting in 1st would be a good clue thats how they are supposed to be. I guess all my cars over that time have had something wrong with them. Owners manual is also incorrect it seems. -- Luther KB5QHU Alma, Ark '87 300SDL (270,491 mi) head case? '83 300SD (241 kmi) '82 300CD (162 kmi) '82 300D (74 kmi) needs MAJOR engine work
Re: [MBZ] HOW MANY GEARS IN 300D transmission
erI ment where the factory manual says SECOND!!! UGH. On Sat, 21 Oct 2006 22:34:22 -0500, Luther Gulseth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Someone find where the factory manual says that the transmission is suppose to start in first and then I'll believe them. On Sat, 21 Oct 2006 18:03:13 -0500, Kaleb C. Striplin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Whatever you say, I guess I am wrong. I have half a dozen of those cars here at any given moment and they all start in 1st. I have had 50+ of both turbo, non turbo, and gas cars, over the last 15 years and all the turbo cars started in 1st, non turbo started in 2nd, with first gear start via kickdown. MB owners manual for 82 300D says D all gears available, manual for 78 which would be non turbo says D all gears available(first gear start), first gear can only be engaged by means of kickdown(2nd gear start). Sort of figured having that many cars over that period of time all starting in 1st would be a good clue thats how they are supposed to be. I guess all my cars over that time have had something wrong with them. Owners manual is also incorrect it seems. -- Luther KB5QHU Alma, Ark '87 300SDL (270,491 mi) head case? '83 300SD (241 kmi) '82 300CD (162 kmi) '82 300D (74 kmi) needs MAJOR engine work
Re: [MBZ] HOW MANY GEARS IN 300D transmission
As Kleb says - it depends on which tranny you're talking about! I'll quote from page 41 of the factory original owners manual (not a copy or reprint) from my last 1976 300D (115 chassis, pre turbo), part no. 115 584 12 97 - D Drive. All gears are available. 1st. gear can be engaged only by means of kickdown. S Slope. Shifting up to 3rd gear only. 1st gear can be engaged only by means of kickdown. L Low. Shifting up to 2nd gear only. The vehicle starts out in 1st gear. For driving on steep grades, trailer operation in mountainous areas and very slow bumper to bumper driving with frequent stops. Independent of the accelerator position, 1st gear is available for a wider speed range. I believe that 1st. gear can be engaged only by means of kickdown. implies that the car does not start from a dead stop in 1st gear, unless it is in L, or the accelerator has been depressed enough to trigger the kickdown switch. On 10/21/06, Luther Gulseth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: erI ment where the factory manual says SECOND!!! UGH. On Sat, 21 Oct 2006 22:34:22 -0500, Luther Gulseth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Someone find where the factory manual says that the transmission is suppose to start in first and then I'll believe them. -- OK Don, KD5NRO Norman, OK The Americans will always do the right thing... after they've exhausted all the alternatives. Sir Winston Churchill '90 300D, '87 300SDL, '81 240D, '78 450SLC, '97 Ply Grand Voyager
Re: [MBZ] HOW MANY GEARS IN 300D transmission
For my cars: The 220D sits in second and kicks down to first when you press the accelerator down (i.e. a second gear sitter). The 88 TE starts in second gear unless you pretty much floor it The 280 SE 4.5 starts in first (three speed tranny) The 87 300D starts in first. My brother's 75 300D starts in second unless you floor it and engage kickdown switch. My friends W123 Turbos (all three) sit in second and downshift into first when you press the accelerator down (second gear sitters). Start-off gear (and whether or not it's engaged while the vehicle is stopped) is model dependent. Benz has used 2nd gear starts on many chassis configurations, especially the older fluid coupling type automatic trannies. Not something to get all torqued up about, this isn't secret information or anything. Peter
Re: [MBZ] HOW MANY GEARS IN 300D transmission
OK, now how about the turbo versions? On Sat, 21 Oct 2006 22:47:26 -0500, OK Don [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As Kleb says - it depends on which tranny you're talking about! I'll quote from page 41 of the factory original owners manual (not a copy or reprint) from my last 1976 300D (115 chassis, pre turbo), part no. 115 584 12 97 - D Drive. All gears are available. 1st. gear can be engaged only by means of kickdown. S Slope. Shifting up to 3rd gear only. 1st gear can be engaged only by means of kickdown. L Low. Shifting up to 2nd gear only. The vehicle starts out in 1st gear. For driving on steep grades, trailer operation in mountainous areas and very slow bumper to bumper driving with frequent stops. Independent of the accelerator position, 1st gear is available for a wider speed range. I believe that 1st. gear can be engaged only by means of kickdown. implies that the car does not start from a dead stop in 1st gear, unless it is in L, or the accelerator has been depressed enough to trigger the kickdown switch. On 10/21/06, Luther Gulseth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: erI ment where the factory manual says SECOND!!! UGH. On Sat, 21 Oct 2006 22:34:22 -0500, Luther Gulseth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Someone find where the factory manual says that the transmission is suppose to start in first and then I'll believe them. -- Luther KB5QHU Alma, Ark '87 300SDL (270,491 mi) head case? '83 300SD (241 kmi) '82 300CD (162 kmi) '82 300D (74 kmi) needs MAJOR engine work
Re: [MBZ] HOW MANY GEARS IN 300D transmission
exactly, which is what I already quoted. OK Don wrote: As Kleb says - it depends on which tranny you're talking about! I'll quote from page 41 of the factory original owners manual (not a copy or reprint) from my last 1976 300D (115 chassis, pre turbo), part no. 115 584 12 97 - D Drive. All gears are available. 1st. gear can be engaged only by means of kickdown. S Slope. Shifting up to 3rd gear only. 1st gear can be engaged only by means of kickdown. L Low. Shifting up to 2nd gear only. The vehicle starts out in 1st gear. For driving on steep grades, trailer operation in mountainous areas and very slow bumper to bumper driving with frequent stops. Independent of the accelerator position, 1st gear is available for a wider speed range. I believe that 1st. gear can be engaged only by means of kickdown. implies that the car does not start from a dead stop in 1st gear, unless it is in L, or the accelerator has been depressed enough to trigger the kickdown switch. -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK 91 300D 2.5 Turbo, 90 420SEL, 89 560SEL, 87 300SDL, 87 300SDL #2, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro, 84 190D 2.2, 84 190D 2.2 #2, 81 240D, 76 240D, 76 300D, 72 250C, 69 250 http://www.striplin.net
Re: [MBZ] HOW MANY GEARS IN 300D transmission
they start in 1st, as I have said many times already. The part about them sitting in 2nd is correct, they sit in 2nd till you start moving, but start in first. Luther Gulseth wrote: OK, now how about the turbo versions? On Sat, 21 Oct 2006 22:47:26 -0500, OK Don [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK 91 300D 2.5 Turbo, 90 420SEL, 89 560SEL, 87 300SDL, 87 300SDL #2, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro, 84 190D 2.2, 84 190D 2.2 #2, 81 240D, 76 240D, 76 300D, 72 250C, 69 250 http://www.striplin.net
Re: [MBZ] HOW MANY GEARS IN 300D transmission
RTFM. On 10/21/06, Luther Gulseth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: OK, now how about the turbo versions? -- OK Don, KD5NRO Norman, OK The Americans will always do the right thing... after they've exhausted all the alternatives. Sir Winston Churchill '90 300D, '87 300SDL, '81 240D, '78 450SLC, '97 Ply Grand Voyager
Re: [MBZ] HOW MANY GEARS IN 300D transmission
Luther Gulseth wrote: Someone find where the factory manual says that the transmission is suppose to start in first and then I'll believe them. I've got the W116 update book that introduces the 300SD to the dealer mechanics. It describes the fact that the tranny naturally starts in 2nd, and how the same relay that triggers the switchover valve also triggers the kickdown solenoid when the driver releases the brake and starts hitting the throttle. So we know that the original turbo car was supposed to start in 2nd, although mine and Chuck's don't due to aged electrics. I'll leave it to others (Marshall, where are you?) to state which W123, W124, W126, and W201 cars start in first. Mitch
Re: [MBZ] HOW MANY GEARS IN 300D transmission
Just a persona opinion. We should all be happy that our cars start and move upon our input.. Whether it's FIRST or SECOND and who is right and who isn't... I don't GAS! Your car is moving! If it isn't, now that's something to talk about Off the stump Take care, Chuck On Oct 20, 2006, at 6:50 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin wrote: except that I am right. Michael Hall wrote: You can say it as often as you want, it doesn't make you right.
Re: [MBZ] HOW MANY GEARS IN 300D transmission
I disagree, I've owned 15 Mercedes and several were early 80's diesels. And all of the automatic transmission models I owned, but my 280SEL 4.5's, started in second gear. The 280SEL 4.5's started in first gear. Thanks, Tom Hargrave 256-656-1924 www.kegkits.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Kaleb C. Striplin Sent: Friday, October 20, 2006 8:51 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] HOW MANY GEARS IN 300D transmission except that I am right. Michael Hall wrote: You can say it as often as you want, it doesn't make you right. -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK 91 300D 2.5 Turbo, 90 420SEL, 89 560SEL, 87 300SDL, 87 300SDL #2, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro, 84 190D 2.2, 84 190D 2.2 #2, 81 240D, 76 240D, 76 300D, 72 250C, 69 250 http://www.striplin.net ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] HOW MANY GEARS IN 300D transmission
I disagree, I've owned 15 Mercedes and several were early 80's diesels. And all of the automatic transmission models I owned, but my 280SEL 4.5's, started in second gear. The 280SEL 4.5's started in first gear. We also have owned quite a fleet, and the only one we had that started in second was the Albatross (79 240D). The rest all start(ed) in first, though a couple of the gassers do rest in second while stopped. It's complicated, I think we can all agree. We should just leave it at that. -- Jim
Re: [MBZ] HOW MANY GEARS IN 300D transmission
Second gear starts are normal on Benz trannies, and most of the diesels are second gear sitters that stay in 2nd until you step on the accelerator. That is to keep creep down, especially on the older fluid coupling autos. The governor will cheerfully apply full fuel delivery to maintain engine speed, making it hard to hold the car against the brakes! On gassers, it's to help reduce gasoline consumption, fuel has always been expensive in Europe. Even the Adenauer had a second gear start on a three-speed! First gear starts are more common on later models -- the W108 and W116 V8 trannies all start in first (three speeds), the W124 diesels start in first (W124 gassers usually start in 2nd unless you floor it), and some of the 210 and newer trannies start in first, depending on application. All turbodiesel W123s had second gear sittter trannies, don't know about the NA diesels. Peter
Re: [MBZ] HOW MANY GEARS IN 300D transmission
Except you're wrong. And saying you're right doesn't make you right, it just makes you look like like some hillbilly from OK that dismantles MB's in his backyard and thinks that make him an expert. Maybe you'll understand better if I say: BZZZT - wrong Mike On 10/20/06, Kaleb C. Striplin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: except that I am right. Michael Hall wrote: You can say it as often as you want, it doesn't make you right.
Re: [MBZ] HOW MANY GEARS IN 300D transmission
god this is turning into an oil thread ... On 10/21/06, Michael Hall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Except you're wrong. And saying you're right doesn't make you right, it just makes you look like like some hillbilly from OK that dismantles MB's in his backyard and thinks that make him an expert. Maybe you'll understand better if I say: BZZZT - wrong Mike On 10/20/06, Kaleb C. Striplin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: except that I am right. Michael Hall wrote: You can say it as often as you want, it doesn't make you right. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- Sunil Hari 1992 300D 2.5T - 286Kmi. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 513-205-7474
Re: [MBZ] HOW MANY GEARS IN 300D transmission
Jim Cathey wrote: It's complicated, I think we can all agree. We should just leave it at that. It doesn't help that there's a nearly infinite number of ways to (mis)adjust these transmissions. I'd be surprised if any two of them work alike at this point! They slip, they lurch, they hang, they stack shifts, sometimes all four in the same day. But they somehow keep getting us down the road.
Re: [MBZ] HOW MANY GEARS IN 300D transmission
Mercedes has offered too many transmissions in too many different cars to unilaterally say what gear a given car will start in. I think a 79 240D should have a 722.117 and the 83 300D should have a 722.315 and both SHOULD start in 2nd gear. The 85 CALIFORNIA version should have what is essentially a 201 chassis tranny in a case that fits in a 123 - I believe this would be a 722.416, but either way, it SHOULD start in first gear. A Federal 85 should have the same 722.315 as an 83. Your owners manual will generally tell you what gear your trans should start in, assuming you have the correct manual for your car. Thats all assuming your car has its original transmission! Mercedes did offer 3 speed trannys, the 722.0XX, found on the 4.5 L versions of the 108 109 Chassis (ie 280SE/L 300SEL 4.5's), the 4.5L 107 chassis (ie 450 SL/C) as well as the 6.9 and 4.5 liter versions the 116 (450SE/L [6.9]) Glad I could clear all that up, Mike On 10/19/06, Stephen D Murrell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi; My 79 240D starts in 2nd unless accel. is pushed down all they way to floor, then downshifts to 1st my 83 300D works the same; starts in 2nd unless accel. pushed down to floor My 1985 works this way; Starts out in 1st (it is a Calif. model) not sure if Federal model is same? All three cars have a 4 speed auto. trans. Steve
Re: [MBZ] HOW MANY GEARS IN 300D transmission
I will say this again, so everyone pay attention, The 123 and 126 turbo cars start in FIRST. If they dont, something is wrong or misadjusted. The older non turbo cars start in 2nd, will kick down into first if kickdown switch is hit. The gas v8's with 4 speed trans(as in the 126's) start in 2nd. The later diesels(300SDL, 124's) start in first also. Michael Hall wrote: Mercedes has offered too many transmissions in too many different cars to unilaterally say what gear a given car will start in. I think a 79 240D should have a 722.117 and the 83 300D should have a 722.315 and both SHOULD start in 2nd gear. The 85 CALIFORNIA version should have what is essentially a 201 chassis tranny in a case that fits in a 123 - I believe this would be a 722.416, but either way, it SHOULD start in first gear. A Federal 85 should have the same 722.315 as an 83. Your owners manual will generally tell you what gear your trans should start in, assuming you have the correct manual for your car. Thats all assuming your car has its original transmission! Mercedes did offer 3 speed trannys, the 722.0XX, found on the 4.5 L versions of the 108 109 Chassis (ie 280SE/L 300SEL 4.5's), the 4.5L 107 chassis (ie 450 SL/C) as well as the 6.9 and 4.5 liter versions the 116 (450SE/L [6.9]) Glad I could clear all that up, Mike On 10/19/06, Stephen D Murrell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi; My 79 240D starts in 2nd unless accel. is pushed down all they way to floor, then downshifts to 1st my 83 300D works the same; starts in 2nd unless accel. pushed down to floor My 1985 works this way; Starts out in 1st (it is a Calif. model) not sure if Federal model is same? All three cars have a 4 speed auto. trans. Steve ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK 91 300D 2.5 Turbo, 90 420SEL, 89 560SEL, 87 300SDL, 87 300SDL #2, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro, 84 190D 2.2, 84 190D 2.2 #2, 81 240D, 76 240D, 76 300D, 72 250C, 69 250 http://www.striplin.net
Re: [MBZ] HOW MANY GEARS IN 300D transmission
You can say it as often as you want, it doesn't make you right. On 10/20/06, Kaleb C. Striplin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I will say this again, so everyone pay attention, The 123 and 126 turbo cars start in FIRST. If they dont, something is wrong or misadjusted. The older non turbo cars start in 2nd, will kick down into first if kickdown switch is hit. The gas v8's with 4 speed trans(as in the 126's) start in 2nd. The later diesels(300SDL, 124's) start in first also. Michael Hall wrote: Mercedes has offered too many transmissions in too many different cars to unilaterally say what gear a given car will start in. I think a 79 240D should have a 722.117 and the 83 300D should have a 722.315 and both SHOULD start in 2nd gear. The 85 CALIFORNIA version should have what is essentially a 201 chassis tranny in a case that fits in a 123 - I believe this would be a 722.416, but either way, it SHOULD start in first gear. A Federal 85 should have the same 722.315 as an 83. Your owners manual will generally tell you what gear your trans should start in, assuming you have the correct manual for your car. Thats all assuming your car has its original transmission! Mercedes did offer 3 speed trannys, the 722.0XX, found on the 4.5 L versions of the 108 109 Chassis (ie 280SE/L 300SEL 4.5's), the 4.5L107 chassis (ie 450 SL/C) as well as the 6.9 and 4.5 liter versions the 116 (450SE/L [6.9]) Glad I could clear all that up, Mike On 10/19/06, Stephen D Murrell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi; My 79 240D starts in 2nd unless accel. is pushed down all they way to floor, then downshifts to 1st my 83 300D works the same; starts in 2nd unless accel. pushed down to floor My 1985 works this way; Starts out in 1st (it is a Calif. model) not sure if Federal model is same? All three cars have a 4 speed auto. trans. Steve ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK 91 300D 2.5 Turbo, 90 420SEL, 89 560SEL, 87 300SDL, 87 300SDL #2, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro, 84 190D 2.2, 84 190D 2.2 #2, 81 240D, 76 240D, 76 300D, 72 250C, 69 250 http://www.striplin.net ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
