Re: [MBZ] How to remove tight lug bolts?
When I bought some WallyWorld tires for MrTaurus last winter, the tire guy put a torque limiter bar on the impact wrench, then burped the lugs down snug with an educated finger on the throttle, making the torque bar superfluous. He then got out a micrometer torque wrench, torqued all twenty lugs down in stages, handed the wrench to the porter and went for a drive around the building. When he pulled back in, the porter went around the car with the torque wrench again. Better treatment than my lugs had ever had at any other shop. I have had two sets of TireRack-purchased tires mounted at a relatively new Super WallyWorld($7.95 per tire lifetime balance) and watched both times as the tech used a torque wrench to tighten the lugs--the receipt includes a print out of the torque applied. I suspect that WWorld must have had some unhappy experiences which resulted in this procedure. Peter Ferguson 1983 300TD
Re: [MBZ] How to remove tight lug bolts?
On 9/23/06, Mitch Haley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think it's national policy. (Like Discount Tire claims it's their national policy, but at Discounts near me, they just run them down with impact. Even have signs in the windows claiming we handtorque all wheels.) I bought tires at Discount once in part because of that promise. Watched through the window between the waiting area and service bay as the tech ran the bolts all the way in with the air wrench, then made a great show of walking around the car with a clicker torque wrench, which clicked on each nut as soon as he started pulling on it (obviously because the bolts were way overtight!). Needless to say that was the first and last time I went there. I bet handtorquing means the same thing to a lot of tire monkeys. Alex Chamberlain '87 300D Turbo '93 Isuzu Trooper
Re: [MBZ] How to remove tight lug bolts?
Merc spec is 81 foot/pounds, which mine are. The tire place I use has torque wrenches and use them. - Original Message - From: LarryT [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Sunday, September 24, 2006 5:17 AM Subject: Re: [MBZ] How to remove tight lug bolts? The typical torque for a wheel with 5 lugnuts/bolts is approx. 90'#'s - in addition to the difficulty removing the nuts/bolts when changing a tire, there's a likelyhood the rotors were warped when they were over-torqued. Larry T (67 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D)
Re: [MBZ] How to remove tight lug bolts?
Thanks for all the input, I had mixed results and learned quite a bit from the responses and even picked up something on my own that I was not aware of. The lug bolt hex heads are hollow and have a plastic cap. That allowed me to use a large punch and hammer to bang away on the bolt without a lot of slipping. Bang, squirt and impact, however, one came out and the hex broke off the other. I continue to have good luck like this, now I'll gain the experience of drilling out the bolt and finding out how good I was at using my drill doctor. Opportunities pop up everywhere when I lead a clean life. This could have happened on the road in a far away land. Thanks for all the tips. Hearing the stories about tire shops makes me glad I got the equipment to do my own. Harry On 9/23/06, Alex Chamberlain [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 9/23/06, Mitch Haley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think it's national policy. (Like Discount Tire claims it's their national policy, but at Discounts near me, they just run them down with impact. Even have signs in the windows claiming we handtorque all wheels.) I bought tires at Discount once in part because of that promise. Watched through the window between the waiting area and service bay as the tech ran the bolts all the way in with the air wrench, then made a great show of walking around the car with a clicker torque wrench, which clicked on each nut as soon as he started pulling on it (obviously because the bolts were way overtight!). Needless to say that was the first and last time I went there. I bet handtorquing means the same thing to a lot of tire monkeys. Alex Chamberlain '87 300D Turbo '93 Isuzu Trooper ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] How to remove tight lug bolts?
P. D. Ferguson wrote: I have had two sets of TireRack-purchased tires mounted at a relatively new Super WallyWorld($7.95 per tire lifetime balance) and watched both times as the tech used a torque wrench to tighten the lugs--the receipt includes a print out of the torque applied. My WW tire/oil shop is only about three years old. I got the same print-out, the listed torque was five or ten ft-lb more than Ford quotes in the FSM, but I don't really care if the lugs are exactly to spec, as long as it's in the ballpark and the same torque on each nut. I once tried to re-torque the lugs after having my tires balanced at a local garage (full line service, not just tires). Could not get several of the nuts loose. Took the car back, and they had to drill several of them. The owner could not understand it, as the guy who did the original work had one of the weaker impact guns in the shop, and they couldn't get the nuts off with a I-R 2131. When I mentioned that spec was 85 ft-lb on that car, not 200-300ft-lb, the owner told me I didn't know what I was talking about. I argued with him a bit to see if it was possible to teach him anything, but he was adamant. They replaced the affected lugs and nuts. I replaced a warped wheel at my own expense, I would have had to sue the idiots before they'd admit they could have damaged a wheel. Never went there again. It's under new ownership, but I still won't go there for any reason.
Re: [MBZ] How to remove tight lug bolts?
Thanks Hendrik - When I said *approx* 90#'s I was hoping someone would come out with the specific number - so I didn't have to look it up. ;-) Larry T (67 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs Porsche Road Test http://members.rennlist.com/roadtest/ . - Original Message - From: Hendrik Riessen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Saturday, September 23, 2006 8:51 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] How to remove tight lug bolts? Merc spec is 81 foot/pounds, which mine are. The tire place I use has torque wrenches and use them. - Original Message - From: LarryT [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Sunday, September 24, 2006 5:17 AM Subject: Re: [MBZ] How to remove tight lug bolts? The typical torque for a wheel with 5 lugnuts/bolts is approx. 90'#'s - in addition to the difficulty removing the nuts/bolts when changing a tire, there's a likelyhood the rotors were warped when they were over-torqued. Larry T (67 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D) ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.12.8/455 - Release Date: 9/22/2006
Re: [MBZ] How to remove tight lug bolts?
I've had the same issue with my 300SDL and I took it down to the local tire shop. They spun them right out with their impact wrench. Apparently, my air powered impact wrench does not work as well as theirs does. Probably has something to do with the $38.00 price tag. Thanks, Tom Hargrave 256-656-1924 www.kegkits.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jimmie Watkins Sent: Saturday, September 23, 2006 1:32 PM To: mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: [MBZ] How to remove tight lug bolts? 86 SDL, two bolts are showing no signs of giving up their grip. What are some things that have worked? What will break first if I really get on them with a cheater? They are soaking in kroil right now and I have just about worn out a cheap HF impact socket. Thanks Harry ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] How to remove tight lug bolts?
If you have the air tools, an impact is less likely to twist anything you don't want twisted than a cheater bar, but if the bar is the only thing that is going to do it, get a good long one and instead of steady pressure, jump on it in short bursts to crack it loosethen find the last guy to put the bolts on so tight and take the cheater bar to him :-) --Robert Jimmie Watkins wrote: 86 SDL, two bolts are showing no signs of giving up their grip. What are some things that have worked? What will break first if I really get on them with a cheater? They are soaking in kroil right now and I have just about worn out a cheap HF impact socket. Thanks Harry ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] How to remove tight lug bolts?
A friend of mine had a 560SEL with stuck lug bolts. A large impact wrench eventually broke off 5 bolts. He had to drill them out. They broke where the thinner shaft behind the hex meets the spherical section that fits the wheel. If the last guy (a brake shop) to touch those bolts hadn't been 800 miles away, I'm sure a cheater bar would have been applied to his head. On 9/23/06, Robert Tara Ludwick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If you have the air tools, an impact is less likely to twist anything you don't want twisted than a cheater bar, but if the bar is the only thing that is going to do it, get a good long one and instead of steady pressure, jump on it in short bursts to crack it loosethen find the last guy to put the bolts on so tight and take the cheater bar to him :-) --Robert -- OK Don, KD5NRO Norman, OK The Americans will always do the right thing... after they've exhausted all the alternatives. Sir Winston Churchill '90 300D, '87 300SDL, '81 240D, '78 450SLC, '97 Ply Grand Voyager
Re: [MBZ] How to remove tight lug bolts?
You wrote:A friend of mine had a 560SEL with stuck lug bolts. A large impact wrench eventually broke off 5 bolts. He had to drill them out. There's is nothing more aggravating than to discover some tire changer has put 200#'s of torque on the lugnuts! Especially if you discover it while trying to change a flat tire next to a busy highway, in the dark, in the rain or snow. Those guys should be tracked down and tortured! The typical torque for a wheel with 5 lugnuts/bolts is approx. 90'#'s - in addition to the difficulty removing the nuts/bolts when changing a tire, there's a likelyhood the rotors were warped when they were over-torqued. Larry T (67 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs Porsche Road Test http://members.rennlist.com/roadtest/ . - Original Message - From: OK Don [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Saturday, September 23, 2006 3:12 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] How to remove tight lug bolts? A friend of mine had a 560SEL with stuck lug bolts. A large impact wrench eventually broke off 5 bolts. He had to drill them out. They broke where the thinner shaft behind the hex meets the spherical section that fits the wheel. If the last guy (a brake shop) to touch those bolts hadn't been 800 miles away, I'm sure a cheater bar would have been applied to his head. On 9/23/06, Robert Tara Ludwick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If you have the air tools, an impact is less likely to twist anything you don't want twisted than a cheater bar, but if the bar is the only thing that is going to do it, get a good long one and instead of steady pressure, jump on it in short bursts to crack it loosethen find the last guy to put the bolts on so tight and take the cheater bar to him :-) --Robert -- OK Don, KD5NRO Norman, OK The Americans will always do the right thing... after they've exhausted all the alternatives. Sir Winston Churchill '90 300D, '87 300SDL, '81 240D, '78 450SLC, '97 Ply Grand Voyager ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.12.8/455 - Release Date: 9/22/2006
Re: [MBZ] How to remove tight lug bolts?
This is a serious problem with tire shops and gas stations -- those lug bolts MUST be torqued correctly or they can bend and stick. If the above methods do not work, and it's likely they will, here's what you do: Pull the center cover off and pry out the dust cap (front wheel) -- using a chisel, unscrew the clamp bolt and remove the wheel bearing retainer nut. Remove brake line and sensor wires, and uscrew caliper, then pull wheel, hub, and caliper off the car. Drill out the bolt from behind. DO NOT use a torch, you will ruin the bearings, races, hub, and risk setting the car on fire, to say nothing of warping the wheel. Once you get the wheel off, have it check for warpage -- overtightening sometimes warps them enough that they are useless. Peter
Re: [MBZ] How to remove tight lug bolts?
Around here, none of the tire/brake shops/dealerships even know what a torque wrench is when it comes to wheels, except surprisingly, Wal Mart of all places. They've been stuck with the bill for so many bent wheels and rotors that now, at least in this area, they at least use torque sticks on all wheel mounts ( and they will instantly fire any employee who sticks a wheel on without using them). Although their torque chart isn't completely accurate, at least they are close and all the bolts get pulled down evenly. Robert LarryT wrote: You wrote:A friend of mine had a 560SEL with stuck lug bolts. A large impact wrench eventually broke off 5 bolts. He had to drill them out. There's is nothing more aggravating than to discover some tire changer has put 200#'s of torque on the lugnuts! Especially if you discover it while trying to change a flat tire next to a busy highway, in the dark, in the rain or snow. Those guys should be tracked down and tortured! The typical torque for a wheel with 5 lugnuts/bolts is approx. 90'#'s - in addition to the difficulty removing the nuts/bolts when changing a tire, there's a likelyhood the rotors were warped when they were over-torqued. Larry T (67 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs Porsche Road Test http://members.rennlist.com/roadtest/ . - Original Message - From: OK Don [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Saturday, September 23, 2006 3:12 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] How to remove tight lug bolts? A friend of mine had a 560SEL with stuck lug bolts. A large impact wrench eventually broke off 5 bolts. He had to drill them out. They broke where the thinner shaft behind the hex meets the spherical section that fits the wheel. If the last guy (a brake shop) to touch those bolts hadn't been 800 miles away, I'm sure a cheater bar would have been applied to his head. On 9/23/06, Robert Tara Ludwick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If you have the air tools, an impact is less likely to twist anything you don't want twisted than a cheater bar, but if the bar is the only thing that is going to do it, get a good long one and instead of steady pressure, jump on it in short bursts to crack it loosethen find the last guy to put the bolts on so tight and take the cheater bar to him :-) --Robert -- OK Don, KD5NRO Norman, OK The Americans will always do the right thing... after they've exhausted all the alternatives. Sir Winston Churchill '90 300D, '87 300SDL, '81 240D, '78 450SLC, '97 Ply Grand Voyager ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.12.8/455 - Release Date: 9/22/2006 ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] How to remove tight lug bolts?
Tom Hargrave wrote: I've had the same issue with my 300SDL and I took it down to the local tire shop. They spun them right out with their impact wrench. Almost any shop you go into, at least one guy is going to own an IR 2131, or its replacement, the 2131ti. The early (sub-$200) version was rated at 600ft-lb in reverse, the ti model is slightly stronger and not slightly more expensive. I went for the $125 choice, a Chicago Pneumatic that was rated at 500ft-lb or more, I think the model was CP736. The current choices from CP are the 7733 (550ft-lb max) for around $100 or the 749 for around $150 with 625ft-lb reverse. Nothing beats a really strong air impact wrench when you can't apply much heat, like when the bolt goes through an aluminum wheel.
Re: [MBZ] How to remove tight lug bolts?
Robert Tara Ludwick wrote: Around here, none of the tire/brake shops/dealerships even know what a torque wrench is when it comes to wheels, except surprisingly, Wal Mart of all places. They've been stuck with the bill for so many bent wheels and rotors that now, at least in this area, they at least use torque sticks on all wheel mounts I think it's national policy. (Like Discount Tire claims it's their national policy, but at Discounts near me, they just run them down with impact. Even have signs in the windows claiming we handtorque all wheels.) When I bought some WallyWorld tires for MrTaurus last winter, the tire guy put a torque limiter bar on the impact wrench, then burped the lugs down snug with an educated finger on the throttle, making the torque bar superfluous. He then got out a micrometer torque wrench, torqued all twenty lugs down in stages, handed the wrench to the porter and went for a drive around the building. When he pulled back in, the porter went around the car with the torque wrench again. Better treatment than my lugs had ever had at any other shop.
