Re: [MBZ] OT: The eco debate
Oh my, why did we not meet durin IowaQ? I LOVE IT. Luther On Mon, 25 Feb 2008 23:18:59 -0600, Loren Faeth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That won't stop albore and his wacko friends. They will just run around saying we caused the global freeze and that we must be taxed and regulated to death before we freeze to death! Bring on the global warming! I have had enough winter! This used to be the tropics. I'm ready for palm trees. Light up your SUV and send some heat this way. (Currently ice, snow and freezing rain, again. Enough already!) Oh! Wait! if we are freezing, we might burn more fossil fuels or cellulosic fuels to stay warm! Wouldn't that cause global warming and keep us warm? Oh! Albore! save us! -- Luther KB5QHUAlma, Ark '87 300SDL (272,xxx mi) head case '85 Ford F250 6.9 diesel (x58,xxx mi) '82 300CD (166 kmi) '82 300D (74 kmi) getting donor engine-sold '85 300D (280,176) parts car sans engine ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: The eco debate
You see the problem is that nobody refers to global warming anymore as that's a misnomer. It's not just the warming that's a problem, is a large scale climate change. Weather patterns are changing and that is what is responsible for things like Katrina and the colder winters in some warm places. Is it ocean currents causing this? Change is water salinaton levels? Who knows...but to use the term global warming is to date oneselfso to speak. Zedic struggling to keep up with all the new data.. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: The eco debate
Ever heard of Noah? Whatever the name, large scale climate change has been going on for eons, and whatever humans do will not stop it. Get over it. Humans are insignificant in the face of nature, or God, whichever way you choose to view it. Where I live has been tropical, arctic and temperate over the long term. All that was without human input. Read the scientific data. The proof is there. At 11:23 AM 2/27/2008, you wrote: You see the problem is that nobody refers to global warming anymore as that's a misnomer. It's not just the warming that's a problem, is a large scale climate change. Weather patterns are changing and that is what is responsible for things like Katrina and the colder winters in some warm places. Is it ocean currents causing this? Change is water salinaton levels? Who knows...but to use the term global warming is to date oneselfso to speak. Zedic struggling to keep up with all the new data.. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com Loren Faeth ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: The eco debate
I think because you were too busy doing something else Luther wrote: Oh my, why did we not meet durin IowaQ? I LOVE IT. Luther On Mon, 25 Feb 2008 23:18:59 -0600, Loren Faeth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That won't stop albore and his wacko friends. They will just run around saying we caused the global freeze and that we must be taxed and regulated to death before we freeze to death! Bring on the global warming! I have had enough winter! This used to be the tropics. I'm ready for palm trees. Light up your SUV and send some heat this way. (Currently ice, snow and freezing rain, again. Enough already!) Oh! Wait! if we are freezing, we might burn more fossil fuels or cellulosic fuels to stay warm! Wouldn't that cause global warming and keep us warm? Oh! Albore! save us! -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK 94 E420, 92 300SD, 92 300D, 92 250D Turbo, 92 300E 4Matic, 91 300D, 90 420SEL, 89 560SEL, 89 260E, 87 300SDL, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro, 84 190D, 84 300D euro manny, 81 240D, 81 380SLC, 80 240D, 76 240D, 76 300D, 72 250C, 69 250 http://www.okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: The eco debate
Interesting article on global cooling: http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.asp?message_id=27168955 ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: The eco debate
Someone wrote that Democracy will only survive until the population discovers they can elect people who will give them stuff. Larry T (66 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs . - Original Message - From: OK Don [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 10:38 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: The eco debate Our government only works with an educated, informed, and participating electorate. That's why it's so screwed up now - we have none of the above. -- OK Don, KD5NRO Norman, OK There are three kinds of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics. -Benjamin Disraeli and/or Mark Twain '90 300D, '87 300SDL, '81 240D, '78 450SLC, '97 Ply Grand Voyager ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: The eco debate
Jim wrote only the most important things would get turned into law. Otherwise they're just supposed to leave us alone Boy Howdy, I wish someone would tell the politicians that part about leaving us alone!! ;-) Larry T (66 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs . - Original Message - From: Jim Cathey [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 9:31 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: The eco debate Fourth, get rid of the Presidential Veto..that is not democracy. The veto is important, it is the means by which the chief executive is supposed to push back legislation that is somehow unenforceable. It, like everything else in the originally rather well-designed system, is now being abused horribly. Our government was deliberately designed to be inefficient, the idea being that only the most important things would get turned into law. Otherwise they're just supposed to leave us alone. No matter how well-crafted the system, however, a lazy and stupid electorate will get exactly the government that they deserve. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: The eco debate
The politicians sort of mean well. They want to please people so that they get re-elected. Unfortunately, there are lots of soccer mommies and people like that with the opinion that the government needs to enact all sorts of laws to protect us from ourselves. They tend, for whatever reason, to get heard. The politicans want to appear to be doing something about these percieved problems and so we get new laws. In Canada that included the silly gun registration laws that cost a fortune and did very little good. The bad guys have more unregistered guns than ever. The rest of us are looked upon as criminals if we express any interest in guns. Randy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of LarryT Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2008 3:08 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: The eco debate Jim wrote only the most important things would get turned into law. Otherwise they're just supposed to leave us alone Boy Howdy, I wish someone would tell the politicians that part about leaving us alone!! ;-) Larry T (66 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs . - Original Message - From: Jim Cathey [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 9:31 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: The eco debate Fourth, get rid of the Presidential Veto..that is not democracy. The veto is important, it is the means by which the chief executive is supposed to push back legislation that is somehow unenforceable. It, like everything else in the originally rather well-designed system, is now being abused horribly. Our government was deliberately designed to be inefficient, the idea being that only the most important things would get turned into law. Otherwise they're just supposed to leave us alone. No matter how well-crafted the system, however, a lazy and stupid electorate will get exactly the government that they deserve. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: The eco debate
Er, well looking at the history books, climate change issues, everyone dies. Problem today is lots more people, and life expectancy of 80 years versus 25. So much more worry, plus expectation that government will fix it. On Feb 27, 2008, at 9:30 AM, Loren Faeth wrote: Ever heard of Noah? Whatever the name, large scale climate change has been going on for eons, and whatever humans do will not stop it. Get over it. Humans are insignificant in the face of nature, or God, whichever way you choose to view it. Where I live has been tropical, arctic and temperate over the long term. All that was without human input. Read the scientific data. The proof is there. John ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: The eco debate
I've never understood why such a high percentage of Canadians spend the winter down here in Florida compared to such a low percentage of Americans. Of course, it can be uncomfortably hot in the winter; 85 degrees fahrenheit the other day. Gerry From: Loren Faeth [EMAIL PROTECTED] That won't stop albore and his wacko friends. They will just run around saying we caused the global freeze and that we must be taxed and regulated to death before we freeze to death! Bring on the global warming! I have had enough winter! This used to be the tropics. I'm ready for palm trees. Light up your SUV and send some heat this way. (Currently ice, snow and freezing rain, again. Enough already!) Oh! Wait! if we are freezing, we might burn more fossil fuels or cellulosic fuels to stay warm! Wouldn't that cause global warming and keep us warm? Oh! Albore! save us! t 10:22 PM 2/25/2008, you wrote: On Mon, 25 Feb 2008 00:50:40 -0800 Zoltan Finks [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I watched a program on PBS that posited that global warming is being counteracted by the amount of sun blocked by pollution in the atmosphere. In another program I learned of the theory that the sun is burning out. Forget global warming: Welcome to the new Ice Age http://www.nationalpost.com/opinion/columnists/story.html?id=332289 We missed what was right in front of our eyes, says Prof. Russell. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: The eco debate
Ok, want to fix the US politically? First thing, ban lobbyistsbetter yet, take them out and shoot them in the head.. Second, make voting mandatory..some idiot will think this is a violation of his rights...too bad...vote..usual turnout is 37% pitiful. Funny how 99% of people bitch about the gov't but 37% actually bother to do the simplest thing. Third...all elections publicly financed. No more soft or hard money. Fourth, get rid of the Presidential Veto..that is not democracy. Fifth, lose the electoral college system. Sixth? Get rid of the party system altogether.I wonder how things would work this way? Might be worth a shot.That probably means that people would have to pay attention to stuff and most just can't. None of this will ever happen though. People seem to think that gov't is something thrust upon them. Seems to be that everyone is happy being shafted by the powers that be...but they still like to grumble.Don't like it?? VOTE! Get involved. Need to shrink the political process back to where it should be...of, for and by the peopleremember that little piece of paper? Didn't say anything about corporations, or PACs, or think tanks.screw em all. Zedic ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: The eco debate
Jeff Zedic wrote: Ok, want to fix the US politically? Second, make voting mandatory. You don't improve the results by getting the unmotivated to participate. I cringe every time somebody initiates an effort to get people who don't give a damn about their country to register to vote. The best you can hope for is that they will pick a party, and make the selection for Let party D or party R pick who I vote for Fourth, get rid of the Presidential Veto..that is not democracy. The USA is not a democracy, it's a republic. That's not a mistake, it's a feature. Sixth? Get rid of the party system altogether. There is no party system, at least not legally. There is not a word in the US Constitution authorizing any powers to be given to the parties, and I agree with you that it needs to go. Back to my answer to #2: We need to remove all references to the parties from the polling places. The taxpayer's shouldn't be footing the bill to advertise for the parties on the ballots. You want to vote a Repugnant Party straight ticket? Fine, learn who your parties' candidates are and go vote for them individually. There should never be a choice for fill in this one circle to cast a vote for all of a party's candidates. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: The eco debate
Talk about a wolf in a sheep's clothing! You need political parties to impose disipline and a degree of predicitability/reliability so candidates are accountable for something besides a burning desire to get elected. There are many candidates who do NOT include their party affiliation in media advertising because this would probably diminish their ability to get elected. On Tue, Feb 26, 2008 at 9:58 AM, Mitch Haley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jeff Zedic wrote: Ok, want to fix the US politically? Second, make voting mandatory. You don't improve the results by getting the unmotivated to participate. I cringe every time somebody initiates an effort to get people who don't give a damn about their country to register to vote. The best you can hope for is that they will pick a party, and make the selection for Let party D or party R pick who I vote for Fourth, get rid of the Presidential Veto..that is not democracy. The USA is not a democracy, it's a republic. That's not a mistake, it's a feature. Sixth? Get rid of the party system altogether. There is no party system, at least not legally. There is not a word in the US Constitution authorizing any powers to be given to the parties, and I agree with you that it needs to go. Back to my answer to #2: We need to remove all references to the parties from the polling places. The taxpayer's shouldn't be footing the bill to advertise for the parties on the ballots. You want to vote a Repugnant Party straight ticket? Fine, learn who your parties' candidates are and go vote for them individually. There should never be a choice for fill in this one circle to cast a vote for all of a party's candidates. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: The eco debate
andrew strasfogel wrote: Talk about a wolf in a sheep's clothing! You need political parties to impose disipline and a degree of predicitability/reliability so candidates are accountable for something besides a burning desire to get elected. That which you fear is exectly what we have now. They are held accountable to the Party, not to the People, and the Party Discipline that you treasure is in large part the cause. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: The eco debate
Zedic wrote regarding fixing the US politically: Fourth, get rid of the Presidential Veto..that is not democracy. That is a HORRIBLE idea. Who would provide the check and balance on the power of the legislature? The Congress could enact anything without fear of the President having any say on it. Sorry, I don't trust Congress enough to think that is a good idea. I also don't trust the President to allow him to be able to unilaterally veto acts of Congress. Remember, they can overrule him with a 2/3. The whole idea is to decentralize power, so that no single branch has too much. I agree with most of the rest of your email. Donald H. Snook http://www.mtsqh.com/ ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: The eco debate
This just points out something in the human nature. Folks have differing views - always have, always will. I would hold that your statement is exactly opposite true. Brian On Mon, Feb 25, 2008 at 11:33 AM, andrew strasfogel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The only two persons who actually HAVE make a mockery of the US Consistutition are currently in the White House as loyal members of the Republican party. Barring a manufactured crisis, seres of unfortunate accidents, or a coup, neither will be on any ballot next November on in the WH after Jan. 20, 2009. On Mon, Feb 25, 2008 at 11:33 AM, Mitch Haley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: andrew strasfogel wrote: You sound like an independent anarchist. Possibly, but I don't think tossing the current one party (Republicrat) system and electing officials who actually obey the Constitution of these United States would be anarchy. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: The eco debate
The check should be that bastion of sober, second thought otherwise known as the Senate. I guess I really don't understand how your system works. (seems very foreign and suspicious to me) ;-) One man with so much power is scary...especially when it's certain nameless crayon eaters. Does legislation not go from the House to the Senate for approval? At least you guys have an elected Senate...Canada is still stuck in the 18th century with these zimmer frame piss tanks we call Senators. The problem with having to have an overruling vote is that it takes so long to do and you can end up with so much crap attahced to it. You REALLY need to get rid of that add-on [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Now THAT'S definitely foreign and highly suspicioushello Alsakan Bridge patrol?) Zedic ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: The eco debate
Hi Jeff, Maybe this will help - The System of Checks Balances works this way IIRC - Legislation originates in the House after being offered by a house member but before it's voted on it can be sent to committee for work - it can stay in committee for an indeterminate time but hopefully (maybe) it gets voted on passes or fails and then goes to the Senate for them to vote on it or send it to committee or write their own version. Assuming it gets thru all those hurdles it goes to the president for his approval - yes or no - if he vetoes it the Senate can override it with a 60 member vote (IIRC) . That parts of the checks and balances. The remainder is the Supreme Court which (supposedly) will rule on legislation being Constitutional. That's supposed to be the only criteria. But often they find other things to base their opinion on. One mental giant said she used a foreign finding to make her decision. (what a macaroon). That's the system of checks of balances - with many roadblocks built-in along the way - numerous levels of courts making rulings on the constitutional validity of the new law - all the way to the SC. At least that's what I remember from High School Civics class -- where I slept much of the time I'd sorry to say. HTHs Larry T (66 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs . - Original Message - From: Jeff Zedic [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 6:23 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: The eco debate The check should be that bastion of sober, second thought otherwise known as the Senate. I guess I really don't understand how your system works. (seems very foreign and suspicious to me) ;-) One man with so much power is scary...especially when it's certain nameless crayon eaters. Does legislation not go from the House to the Senate for approval? At least you guys have an elected Senate...Canada is still stuck in the 18th century with these zimmer frame piss tanks we call Senators. The problem with having to have an overruling vote is that it takes so long to do and you can end up with so much crap attahced to it. You REALLY need to get rid of that add-on [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Now THAT'S definitely foreign and highly suspicioushello Alsakan Bridge patrol?) Zedic ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: The eco debate
Thanks for all the efforts Larry. So it's not much different from the British Parliamentary system except for the Presidential power to veto. Zedic ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: The eco debate
Fourth, get rid of the Presidential Veto..that is not democracy. The veto is important, it is the means by which the chief executive is supposed to push back legislation that is somehow unenforceable. It, like everything else in the originally rather well-designed system, is now being abused horribly. Our government was deliberately designed to be inefficient, the idea being that only the most important things would get turned into law. Otherwise they're just supposed to leave us alone. No matter how well-crafted the system, however, a lazy and stupid electorate will get exactly the government that they deserve. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: The eco debate
Does legislation not go from the House to the Senate for approval? Legislation can be originated in either the House of Representatives or the Senate. Voted and passed by the entire body, then to the other house to be approved or amended. Bounces back and forth until approved unchanged by both houses, then to Prexy to sign and implement. Or veto. Can then be voted back to Prexy veto-proof with enough votes in both houses. How the houses choose to wrangle over the bills internally (committees, etc.) is entirely up to themselves. Pork riders are entirely the responsibility of the congressmen. It's supposed to be slow and inefficient. If it was truly vitally important and uncontroversial, it could be done in a day. One perversion was the way it operated under old Take a Bill FDR, where the same party controlled both executive and legislative branches. He'd propose legislation, and the lap-dogs in Congress would trot it over to him to sign. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: The eco debate
Our government only works with an educated, informed, and participating electorate. That's why it's so screwed up now - we have none of the above. -- OK Don, KD5NRO Norman, OK There are three kinds of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics. -Benjamin Disraeli and/or Mark Twain '90 300D, '87 300SDL, '81 240D, '78 450SLC, '97 Ply Grand Voyager ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: The eco debate
It seems than at Tue, 26 Feb 2008 21:38:41 -0600, OK wrote: Our government only works with an educated, informed, and participating electorate. That's why it's so screwed up now - we have none of the above. And educated does _not_ mean holding a college degree. -- Philip ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: The eco debate
I watched a program on PBS that posited that global warming is being counteracted by the amount of sun blocked by pollution in the atmosphere. In another program I learned of the theory that the sun is burning out. Brian On Fri, Feb 22, 2008 at 6:13 PM, Mitch Haley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Harry Watkins wrote: Two things I've read lately on this subject, I did say read, not study. First, some brains in the UK said global cold will kill more folks than global warm. Shortage of food will become much more important than shortage of oil. I also read somewhere that human caused global warming, if it exists, would slightly lessen the impact of the next ice age. (but not enough for us not to notice that it's getting pretty cold out there) ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: The eco debate
So Donald, since all three remaining pres. candidates believe that global warming/climate change exists and that it is a BAD thing, will you sit out the general election? On Sat, Feb 23, 2008 at 6:49 PM, Tom Hargrave [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why go back that far? Why not go back to the early 20th century when city streets were covered with horse poop from horse drawn buggies people poop from residents dumping their pans out the front window? Or go back to the mid-1800's when the river Themes (in England) got so polluted that people who fell into the river died from the chemical bath. Tom www.kegkits.com - Original Message - From: Scott Ritchey [EMAIL PROTECTED] Received: 2/23/08 6:18 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com CC: Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: The eco debate Let's go back to the good old days before we screwed up the environment ... and most of North America was covered with ice. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of LarryT Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2008 9:12 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: The eco debate Donald wrote:we do not know is whether the 1 degree increase in temperature that we have experienced over the last 100 years is going to have any affect Exactly. All we have heard is the gloom and doom of GW when there is a possibility it will bring great changes to some - for instance, the growing/green regions of the world may increase leading to increased food production, a reduction in desert areas which may provide more living/growing areas for those scratching a living from land that typically hasn't grown more than weeds for as long as we know. There are potentially some positives that will come from a 1 or 2 degree rise in temp. But good news doesn't scare people and without scared people willing to thro money at a problem, no one gets rich by spreading good news Larry T (66 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs . - Original Message - From: Donald Snook [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Friday, February 22, 2008 5:06 PM Subject: [MBZ] OT: The eco debate Curt wrote: So if we do nothing we die. If we change our evil ways we have a 50% chance of dying. Your choice is certain death or a 50% chance of death. There is a flaw in your logic. The flaw is based on your assumption that global warming is a) getting worse b) actually going to cause us harm. Your argument is basically if we do something, we can reduce the risk that it is going to kill us. BUT, you have completely left out another possibility. Global warming (regardless of its cause) may not cause any harm. What we do not know is whether the 1 degree increase in temperature that we have experienced over the last 100 years is going to have any affect on us or the planet. Donald H. Snook ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.9/1294 - Release Date: 2/22/2008 6:39 PM ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: The eco debate
andrew strasfogel wrote: So Donald, since all three remaining pres. candidates believe that global warming/climate change exists and that it is a BAD thing, will you sit out the general election? Who said there are only three presidential candidates? ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: The eco debate
I don't see Nader as a viable candidate or even a spolier this year. On Mon, Feb 25, 2008 at 9:32 AM, Mitch Haley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: andrew strasfogel wrote: So Donald, since all three remaining pres. candidates believe that global warming/climate change exists and that it is a BAD thing, will you sit out the general election? Who said there are only three presidential candidates? ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: The eco debate
Andrew S. wrote: So Donald, since all three remaining pres. candidates believe that global warming/climate change exists and that it is a BAD thing, will you sit out the general election? No, I haven't found a candidate that I agree with everything they say. I will vote McCain. Donald H. Snook http://www.mtsqh.com/ ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: The eco debate
andrew strasfogel wrote: I don't see Nader as a viable candidate or even a spolier this year. HRC, BHO, and JM are the least viable trio of candidates in my lifetime. Ron Paul is still running for the Repugnant nomination. There are also 1/2 dozen other parties besides the DemonRats, Repugnants, and Greenies expected to field candidates in November. I would not vote for the media's three picks if you held a gun to my head. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: The eco debate
You sound like an independent anarchist. On Mon, Feb 25, 2008 at 10:20 AM, Mitch Haley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: andrew strasfogel wrote: I don't see Nader as a viable candidate or even a spolier this year. HRC, BHO, and JM are the least viable trio of candidates in my lifetime. Ron Paul is still running for the Repugnant nomination. There are also 1/2 dozen other parties besides the DemonRats, Repugnants, and Greenies expected to field candidates in November. I would not vote for the media's three picks if you held a gun to my head. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: The eco debate
andrew strasfogel wrote: You sound like an independent anarchist. Possibly, but I don't think tossing the current one party (Republicrat) system and electing officials who actually obey the Constitution of these United States would be anarchy. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: The eco debate
Mitch wrote: HRC, BHO, and JM are the least viable trio of candidates in my lifetime. I am not sure what you mean by least viable. Clinton, Obama or McCain WILL BE president come January 20, 2009. No other party candidate can legitimately claim they can win. I understand your frustration with the candidates, but one of the Major party candidates will win no matter who the other third party candidates are. Third party candidates play a role - mostly symbolic. Although recently, the third party candidate has had a hand in swinging the election. Nadar did it in 2000 (with Nader's votes, Al Gore would have been president) and Ross Perot pulled off enough Republican votes to keep George H. W. Bush from a second term. A lot of people don't realize that Bill Clinton was elected twice with less then half of the vote. Donald H. Snook http://www.mtsqh.com/ ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: The eco debate
I suspect that if Walter Cronkite were to announce himself as a independent candidate he could win without spending ANY money on media advertising. -Dave Walton On Mon, Feb 25, 2008 at 11:36 AM, Donald Snook [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mitch wrote: HRC, BHO, and JM are the least viable trio of candidates in my lifetime. I am not sure what you mean by least viable. Clinton, Obama or McCain WILL BE president come January 20, 2009. No other party candidate can legitimately claim they can win. I understand your frustration with the candidates, but one of the Major party candidates will win no matter who the other third party candidates are. Third party candidates play a role - mostly symbolic. Although recently, the third party candidate has had a hand in swinging the election. Nadar did it in 2000 (with Nader's votes, Al Gore would have been president) and Ross Perot pulled off enough Republican votes to keep George H. W. Bush from a second term. A lot of people don't realize that Bill Clinton was elected twice with less then half of the vote. Donald H. Snook http://www.mtsqh.com/ ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: The eco debate
dave walton [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I suspect that if Walter Cronkite were to announce himself as a independent candidate he could win without spending ANY money on media advertising. Who? Yeah just kidding, I do remember him -- barely. Allan -- 1983 300D ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: The eco debate
The only two persons who actually HAVE make a mockery of the US Consistutition are currently in the White House as loyal members of the Republican party. Barring a manufactured crisis, seres of unfortunate accidents, or a coup, neither will be on any ballot next November on in the WH after Jan. 20, 2009. On Mon, Feb 25, 2008 at 11:33 AM, Mitch Haley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: andrew strasfogel wrote: You sound like an independent anarchist. Possibly, but I don't think tossing the current one party (Republicrat) system and electing officials who actually obey the Constitution of these United States would be anarchy. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: The eco debate
andrew strasfogel wrote: The only two persons who actually HAVE make a mockery of the US Consistutition are currently in the White House as loyal members of the Republican party. If you're into conspiracy theories, there are some who predict we've had our last general elections for a while. Heil Bushler! Bush is just one (more blatant than most) out of hundreds. As a Congresscritter, Cheney was actually less blatant than most. Over 90% of federal government spending is in areas that the Constitution clearly does not authorize the feds to go. Meanwhile, both sides of the republicrat party tell us they are against Big Government and for individual rights, all the while promising to make gov't bigger and further infringe rights. Interesting to see how many of the ten points of the Communist Manifesto have already been enacted, and how many Hillary Rodham Clinton promises to make reality. Then there's John McLame, author of the McCain-Feingold First Amendment Revocation Act. One wonders how much the North Vietnamese got inside his head. It looks like we won the Cold War in Europe and lost it at home. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: The eco debate
I refuse to vote for someone who has a flip-values record, like our current president. Campaign's and practice are rarely the same, and I refuse to place my trust (or vote) in a lying politician. As for the global warming farce I'll believe it when they begin to use data that comes from more than 0.001% of the total time that the earth has been around. I'm sorry, but 0.001% is WAY too small of a sampling to draw any conclusions, let alone enough to be accurate. Luther, dreaming of a self-sufficient and off-grid life, solar, wind, geo-thermal, hydro. On Mon, 25 Feb 2008 08:19:58 -0600, andrew strasfogel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So Donald, since all three remaining pres. candidates believe that global warming/climate change exists and that it is a BAD thing, will you sit out the general election? -- Luther KB5QHUAlma, Ark '87 300SDL (272,xxx mi) head case '85 Ford F250 6.9 diesel (x58,xxx mi) '82 300CD (166 kmi) '82 300D (74 kmi) getting donor engine-sold '85 300D (280,176) parts car sans engine ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: The eco debate
On Mon, 25 Feb 2008 00:50:40 -0800 Zoltan Finks [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I watched a program on PBS that posited that global warming is being counteracted by the amount of sun blocked by pollution in the atmosphere. In another program I learned of the theory that the sun is burning out. Forget global warming: Welcome to the new Ice Age http://www.nationalpost.com/opinion/columnists/story.html?id=332289 We missed what was right in front of our eyes, says Prof. Russell. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: The eco debate
That won't stop albore and his wacko friends. They will just run around saying we caused the global freeze and that we must be taxed and regulated to death before we freeze to death! Bring on the global warming! I have had enough winter! This used to be the tropics. I'm ready for palm trees. Light up your SUV and send some heat this way. (Currently ice, snow and freezing rain, again. Enough already!) Oh! Wait! if we are freezing, we might burn more fossil fuels or cellulosic fuels to stay warm! Wouldn't that cause global warming and keep us warm? Oh! Albore! save us! t 10:22 PM 2/25/2008, you wrote: On Mon, 25 Feb 2008 00:50:40 -0800 Zoltan Finks [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I watched a program on PBS that posited that global warming is being counteracted by the amount of sun blocked by pollution in the atmosphere. In another program I learned of the theory that the sun is burning out. Forget global warming: Welcome to the new Ice Age http://www.nationalpost.com/opinion/columnists/story.html?id=332289 We missed what was right in front of our eyes, says Prof. Russell. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com Loren Faeth ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: The eco debate
Wow! That's pretty steep. I got 8 for $10 at Costco (in Va) a few months ago. Personally I think they work pretty well. They take some time to warm up but once warmed up they're plenty bright for the locations they're in. Our bathroom ceiling light/exh fans are a PITA to change so the longer life is welcomed for that reason -- But I don't think regular light bulbs are causing any real problem. But someone is making money on this so it will get top billing - Larry T (66 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs . - Original Message - From: E M [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Friday, February 22, 2008 6:26 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: The eco debate $8 each. Ed 300E On 22/02/2008, Jeff Zedic [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: When did you last buy them?? They practically give the things away here. You can buy 6 for $5..I can't even look directly at the bulb because a 13 watt is too bright and hurts my eyes! Zedic ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: The eco debate
you wroteits already hard for farmers in places like California to compete with population for water That's what happens when you live in a desert and depend on mountain snowfall hundreds of miles away to provide everyone with water. It's not possible to *not* have some years when there is less snowfall - and some with more snowfall. Weather is cyclical - that's all that can be depended on. Also, all the GW predictions are based on computer models - some are wildly optimistic and others are wildly pessimistic with the pro-GW crowd choosing the most pessimistic models. These same models surprise us with a foot of snow when light rain is predicted - for the next morning! And we're supposed to believe what they predict in 5-90 years? Larry T (66 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs . - Original Message - From: Curt Raymond [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Diesel List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Friday, February 22, 2008 9:36 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: The eco debate Don't we? Ocean levels will rise, theres really no debate there. Fresh water stocks will become more precious, its already hard for farmers in places like California to compete with population for water... Sure I don't know if it'll kill us off like fish in a pond that gets too warm but I know it'll cause problems. As a side note I can't take credit for the idea (I ment to write an attribution before) theres a video on Youtube (I think) where a guy puts this forth, I just happen to agree. -Curt Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 16:06:42 -0600 From: Donald Snook [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [MBZ] OT: The eco debate To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Curt wrote: So if we do nothing we die. If we change our evil ways we have a 50% chance of dying. Your choice is certain death or a 50% chance of death. There is a flaw in your logic. The flaw is based on your assumption that global warming is a) getting worse b) actually going to cause us harm. Your argument is basically if we do something, we can reduce the risk that it is going to kill us. BUT, you have completely left out another possibility. Global warming (regardless of its cause) may not cause any harm. What we do not know is whether the 1 degree increase in temperature that we have experienced over the last 100 years is going to have any affect on us or the planet. Donald H. Snook - Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: The eco debate
Penguins. I can understand the concern - their walk to the nesting sites was probably reduced. ;-) They probably can't stop talking about it. Larry T (66 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs . - Original Message - From: Tom Hargrave [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'Jeff Zedic' [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 'Mercedes Discussion List' mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Friday, February 22, 2008 11:54 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: The eco debate Antarctic has a local population? Thanks, Tom 256-656-1924 -Original Message- From: Jeff Zedic [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: 2/22/08 10:34 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: The eco debate Southern ice caps are growing?? Can you send me a link to that? The last I saw in the Antarctic, a 5 km long ice shelf cracked off and floated away causing great concern to the local population. Zedic ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.9/1293 - Release Date: 2/22/2008 9:21 AM ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: The eco debate
Donald wrote:we do not know is whether the 1 degree increase in temperature that we have experienced over the last 100 years is going to have any affect Exactly. All we have heard is the gloom and doom of GW when there is a possibility it will bring great changes to some - for instance, the growing/green regions of the world may increase leading to increased food production, a reduction in desert areas which may provide more living/growing areas for those scratching a living from land that typically hasn't grown more than weeds for as long as we know. There are potentially some positives that will come from a 1 or 2 degree rise in temp. But good news doesn't scare people and without scared people willing to thro money at a problem, no one gets rich by spreading good news Larry T (66 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs . - Original Message - From: Donald Snook [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Friday, February 22, 2008 5:06 PM Subject: [MBZ] OT: The eco debate Curt wrote: So if we do nothing we die. If we change our evil ways we have a 50% chance of dying. Your choice is certain death or a 50% chance of death. There is a flaw in your logic. The flaw is based on your assumption that global warming is a) getting worse b) actually going to cause us harm. Your argument is basically if we do something, we can reduce the risk that it is going to kill us. BUT, you have completely left out another possibility. Global warming (regardless of its cause) may not cause any harm. What we do not know is whether the 1 degree increase in temperature that we have experienced over the last 100 years is going to have any affect on us or the planet. Donald H. Snook ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: The eco debate
I'm wondering if you perhaps have a voltage fluctuation issue that causes them to burn out. Perhaps you may need to address something there. Maybe, maybe not. I have been using CFL since the '80s when I had to buy them through industrial supply houses. I still have some that I have been using for nearly twenty years. OTOH, some cheap made in China fluorescents I have purchased recently didn't last as long as an incandescent. I have NO IDEA who makes high quality CFL at the present time. Rick Knoble '85 300 CD '87 190 DT ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: The eco debate
Rick Knoble wrote: I have NO IDEA who makes high quality CFL at the present time. My problem too. Feit used to sell CFLs made in France, I could buy them at Harbor Freight, Meijer and even Menards. Meijer still has Feit bulbs, they've been made in China for over five years, and are not the same design as the old ones, and do not last as long. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: The eco debate
We'll lose permafrost, Caribou and Elk will be negatively impacted, never mind the polar bears. How do we know the deserts will grow stuff its water they need not heat. Most of the added water will be salt water after all. I think its probably more likely we'll see desert areas grow... Never the less this is the last I'm going to say on the issue. I tire of it already, I don't see any of us likely to budge from our position. -Curt Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2008 10:12:17 -0500 From: LarryT [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: The eco debate To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=original Donald wrote:we do not know is whether the 1 degree increase in temperature that we have experienced over the last 100 years is going to have any affect Exactly. All we have heard is the gloom and doom of GW when there is a possibility it will bring great changes to some - for instance, the growing/green regions of the world may increase leading to increased food production, a reduction in desert areas which may provide more living/growing areas for those scratching a living from land that typically hasn't grown more than weeds for as long as we know. There are potentially some positives that will come from a 1 or 2 degree rise in temp. But good news doesn't scare people and without scared people willing to thro money at a problem, no one gets rich by spreading good news Larry T (66 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs - Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: The eco debate
Let's go back to the good old days before we screwed up the environment ... and most of North America was covered with ice. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of LarryT Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2008 9:12 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: The eco debate Donald wrote:we do not know is whether the 1 degree increase in temperature that we have experienced over the last 100 years is going to have any affect Exactly. All we have heard is the gloom and doom of GW when there is a possibility it will bring great changes to some - for instance, the growing/green regions of the world may increase leading to increased food production, a reduction in desert areas which may provide more living/growing areas for those scratching a living from land that typically hasn't grown more than weeds for as long as we know. There are potentially some positives that will come from a 1 or 2 degree rise in temp. But good news doesn't scare people and without scared people willing to thro money at a problem, no one gets rich by spreading good news Larry T (66 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs . - Original Message - From: Donald Snook [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Friday, February 22, 2008 5:06 PM Subject: [MBZ] OT: The eco debate Curt wrote: So if we do nothing we die. If we change our evil ways we have a 50% chance of dying. Your choice is certain death or a 50% chance of death. There is a flaw in your logic. The flaw is based on your assumption that global warming is a) getting worse b) actually going to cause us harm. Your argument is basically if we do something, we can reduce the risk that it is going to kill us. BUT, you have completely left out another possibility. Global warming (regardless of its cause) may not cause any harm. What we do not know is whether the 1 degree increase in temperature that we have experienced over the last 100 years is going to have any affect on us or the planet. Donald H. Snook ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: The eco debate
Why go back that far? Why not go back to the early 20th century when city streets were covered with horse poop from horse drawn buggies people poop from residents dumping their pans out the front window? Or go back to the mid-1800's when the river Themes (in England) got so polluted that people who fell into the river died from the chemical bath. Tom www.kegkits.com - Original Message - From: Scott Ritchey [EMAIL PROTECTED] Received: 2/23/08 6:18 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com CC: Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: The eco debate Let's go back to the good old days before we screwed up the environment ... and most of North America was covered with ice. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of LarryT Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2008 9:12 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: The eco debate Donald wrote:we do not know is whether the 1 degree increase in temperature that we have experienced over the last 100 years is going to have any affect Exactly. All we have heard is the gloom and doom of GW when there is a possibility it will bring great changes to some - for instance, the growing/green regions of the world may increase leading to increased food production, a reduction in desert areas which may provide more living/growing areas for those scratching a living from land that typically hasn't grown more than weeds for as long as we know. There are potentially some positives that will come from a 1 or 2 degree rise in temp. But good news doesn't scare people and without scared people willing to thro money at a problem, no one gets rich by spreading good news Larry T (66 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs . - Original Message - From: Donald Snook [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Friday, February 22, 2008 5:06 PM Subject: [MBZ] OT: The eco debate Curt wrote: So if we do nothing we die. If we change our evil ways we have a 50% chance of dying. Your choice is certain death or a 50% chance of death. There is a flaw in your logic. The flaw is based on your assumption that global warming is a) getting worse b) actually going to cause us harm. Your argument is basically if we do something, we can reduce the risk that it is going to kill us. BUT, you have completely left out another possibility. Global warming (regardless of its cause) may not cause any harm. What we do not know is whether the 1 degree increase in temperature that we have experienced over the last 100 years is going to have any affect on us or the planet. Donald H. Snook ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.9/1294 - Release Date: 2/22/2008 6:39 PM ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: The eco debate
I don't believe anyone is arguing the fact that global warming is real but your theory is flawed - it's based on the assumption that global warming will continue until it kills us all. No one knows or can even presume this but it's being spouted by the extremists at fact. Tom www.kegkits.com - Original Message - From: Curt Raymond [EMAIL PROTECTED] Received: 2/22/08 4:07 PM To: Diesel List mercedes@okiebenz.com CC: Subject: [MBZ] OT: The eco debate So think of it this way, there is global warming or probably is anyway, its pretty well established. The question is did humans cause it. If we didn't theres nothing we can do and we die. If we did we need to change our evil ways or we die. So if we do nothing we die. If we change our evil ways we have a 50% chance of dying. Your choice is certain death or a 50% chance of death. On fuel, oil IS going to run out. There WILL be a time when there ISN'T any more oil in the ground. Thats why we need more fuel efficient vehicles. To hell with the ecological debate. Once we're out of oil it'll be a LONG dammed time before we get more (assuming we make more the old fashioned million year way) unless we mine that moon of Saturn... So I'm working on doing my part. This summer I'm going to way insulate the attic space in my house. That'll save me money, ROI is something like 5 years. In a couple years I'll invest in a closed loop solar hot water system (has to be closed loop, its way too cold here for open). In 10 years or so I expect solar to be down in the $1/watt range so I'll probably install some of that. I replaced my 28mpg 240D with my 38mpg 190D but the 240D needed replacing anyway. My 15mpg Dakota needs replacing, I'm looking for something in the 18-20mpg range. Its not that everybody needs to run out and buy a Smart but lets face facts that somebody who lives in the city and drives a Tahoe is squandering resources. Anybody who bitches about CF bulbs hasn't bought one in a decade. A 20w CF produces as much or more light than a 75w incandescent bulb. It makes less heat and lasts longer too. As the incandescent bulbs around the house die I'm putting in CF. When our washer/dryer dies I'll look for more economical replacements although the ones we have are pretty small... When the furnace dies I'll talk it over with the furnace guy. A more efficient furnace is probably a better quality unit anyway... Little things, here and there. Not sexy or exciting though... -Curt - Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.9/1293 - Release Date: 2/22/2008 9:21 AM ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: The eco debate
Good logic. Interesting little side note: I believe there was a theologian or philosopher whose name escapes me who applied this argument to belief in God. Brian Curt wrote:So think of it this way, there is global warming or probably is anyway, its pretty well established. The question is did humans cause it. If we didn't theres nothing we can do and we die. If we did we need to change our evil ways or we die. So if we do nothing we die. If we change our evil ways we have a 50% chance of dying. Your choice is certain death or a 50% chance of death. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: The eco debate
Not sure I follow the math there, but I was wondering, can I buy your carbon credits? I have my eye on a W140. ;-) Ed 300E On 22/02/2008, Curt Raymond [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So think of it this way, there is global warming or probably is anyway, its pretty well established. The question is did humans cause it. If we didn't theres nothing we can do and we die. If we did we need to change our evil ways or we die. So if we do nothing we die. If we change our evil ways we have a 50% chance of dying. Your choice is certain death or a 50% chance of death. On fuel, oil IS going to run out. There WILL be a time when there ISN'T any more oil in the ground. Thats why we need more fuel efficient vehicles. To hell with the ecological debate. Once we're out of oil it'll be a LONG dammed time before we get more (assuming we make more the old fashioned million year way) unless we mine that moon of Saturn... So I'm working on doing my part. This summer I'm going to way insulate the attic space in my house. That'll save me money, ROI is something like 5 years. In a couple years I'll invest in a closed loop solar hot water system (has to be closed loop, its way too cold here for open). In 10 years or so I expect solar to be down in the $1/watt range so I'll probably install some of that. I replaced my 28mpg 240D with my 38mpg 190D but the 240D needed replacing anyway. My 15mpg Dakota needs replacing, I'm looking for something in the 18-20mpg range. Its not that everybody needs to run out and buy a Smart but lets face facts that somebody who lives in the city and drives a Tahoe is squandering resources. Anybody who bitches about CF bulbs hasn't bought one in a decade. A 20w CF produces as much or more light than a 75w incandescent bulb. It makes less heat and lasts longer too. As the incandescent bulbs around the house die I'm putting in CF. When our washer/dryer dies I'll look for more economical replacements although the ones we have are pretty small... When the furnace dies I'll talk it over with the furnace guy. A more efficient furnace is probably a better quality unit anyway... Little things, here and there. Not sexy or exciting though... -Curt - Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: The eco debate
Sorry, but I am just not sold on the CF bulbs. I have tried to be. I have bought and installed some but they just don't seem to fit well in the lamps that I have used them in. We have one in a table lamp on a dresser in our bedroom that works OK. I tried using them in the basement ceiling and that didn't work out. The basement is unfinished work area and the bulbs do not produce enough light and do not last long. I am uncertain as to why but they don't. I tried to put one in a torchier floor lamp but the tri-light style bulb is too tall and sticks above the glass. I don't like looking at it so I have gone back to a shorter bulb. It is a CF but I no longer have tri-light capability because the smaller bulb is only one wattage. Works but not like the lamp was intended as I have to turn the switch a couple of times to get it on and off. I am finding that I need a whole lot more light as I get older. When we moved into our house in 1981 my wife and I swapped bulbs until everything was 40W and it was fine. Over the years we have moved up to 60W and then 100W and then on to halogen 150W and ceiling fixtures with more bulbs and it still seems dark to me sometimes. Getting old is a pain in the you know what. Randy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Curt Raymond Sent: Friday, February 22, 2008 3:07 PM To: Diesel List Subject: [MBZ] OT: The eco debate So think of it this way, there is global warming or probably is anyway, its pretty well established. The question is did humans cause it. If we didn't theres nothing we can do and we die. If we did we need to change our evil ways or we die. So if we do nothing we die. If we change our evil ways we have a 50% chance of dying. Your choice is certain death or a 50% chance of death. On fuel, oil IS going to run out. There WILL be a time when there ISN'T any more oil in the ground. Thats why we need more fuel efficient vehicles. To hell with the ecological debate. Once we're out of oil it'll be a LONG dammed time before we get more (assuming we make more the old fashioned million year way) unless we mine that moon of Saturn... So I'm working on doing my part. This summer I'm going to way insulate the attic space in my house. That'll save me money, ROI is something like 5 years. In a couple years I'll invest in a closed loop solar hot water system (has to be closed loop, its way too cold here for open). In 10 years or so I expect solar to be down in the $1/watt range so I'll probably install some of that. I replaced my 28mpg 240D with my 38mpg 190D but the 240D needed replacing anyway. My 15mpg Dakota needs replacing, I'm looking for something in the 18-20mpg range. Its not that everybody needs to run out and buy a Smart but lets face facts that somebody who lives in the city and drives a Tahoe is squandering resources. Anybody who bitches about CF bulbs hasn't bought one in a decade. A 20w CF produces as much or more light than a 75w incandescent bulb. It makes less heat and lasts longer too. As the incandescent bulbs around the house die I'm putting in CF. When our washer/dryer dies I'll look for more economical replacements although the ones we have are pretty small... When the furnace dies I'll talk it over with the furnace guy. A more efficient furnace is probably a better quality unit anyway... Little things, here and there. Not sexy or exciting though... -Curt ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: The eco debate
Donald Snook wrote: What we do not know is whether the 1 degree increase in temperature that we have experienced over the last 100 years is going to have any affect on us or the planet. Its going to melt a little more ice than before... I doubt that is going to kill us though. John ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: The eco debate
I am certain that only a few years back there was concern about another ice age. I don't think that we really do know what will happen long term. I do think that we may run short of oil but I think we will find other solutions. Randy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Donald Snook Sent: Friday, February 22, 2008 4:07 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: [MBZ] OT: The eco debate Curt wrote: So if we do nothing we die. If we change our evil ways we have a 50% chance of dying. Your choice is certain death or a 50% chance of death. There is a flaw in your logic. The flaw is based on your assumption that global warming is a) getting worse b) actually going to cause us harm. Your argument is basically if we do something, we can reduce the risk that it is going to kill us. BUT, you have completely left out another possibility. Global warming (regardless of its cause) may not cause any harm. What we do not know is whether the 1 degree increase in temperature that we have experienced over the last 100 years is going to have any affect on us or the planet. Donald H. Snook ___ ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: The eco debate
I tried a bunch of CF bulbs in the garage, and couldn't see a thing. They were very expensive to buy too. I did like the colour of light they gave tough. Anyway, I swapped them all our for the older style 4' tubes running the length of the garage. I can now see all the wax I missed on the car, before I pull it out into the sunlight. I'm sure the CF have a place, but for many applications, I don't care for them. I found the base of them very bulky too. that may change in time. Ed 300E On 22/02/2008, R A Bennell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sorry, but I am just not sold on the CF bulbs. I have tried to be. I have bought and installed some but they just don't seem to fit well in the lamps that I have used them in. We have one in a table lamp on a dresser in our bedroom that works OK. I tried using them in the basement ceiling and that didn't work out. The basement is unfinished work area and the bulbs do not produce enough light and do not last long. I am uncertain as to why but they don't. I tried to put one in a torchier floor lamp but the tri-light style bulb is too tall and sticks above the glass. I don't like looking at it so I have gone back to a shorter bulb. It is a CF but I no longer have tri-light capability because the smaller bulb is only one wattage. Works but not like the lamp was intended as I have to turn the switch a couple of times to get it on and off. I am finding that I need a whole lot more light as I get older. When we moved into our house in 1981 my wife and I swapped bulbs until everything was 40W and it was fine. Over the years we have moved up to 60W and then 100W and then on to halogen 150W and ceiling fixtures with more bulbs and it still seems dark to me sometimes. Getting old is a pain in the you know what. Randy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Curt Raymond Sent: Friday, February 22, 2008 3:07 PM To: Diesel List Subject: [MBZ] OT: The eco debate So think of it this way, there is global warming or probably is anyway, its pretty well established. The question is did humans cause it. If we didn't theres nothing we can do and we die. If we did we need to change our evil ways or we die. So if we do nothing we die. If we change our evil ways we have a 50% chance of dying. Your choice is certain death or a 50% chance of death. On fuel, oil IS going to run out. There WILL be a time when there ISN'T any more oil in the ground. Thats why we need more fuel efficient vehicles. To hell with the ecological debate. Once we're out of oil it'll be a LONG dammed time before we get more (assuming we make more the old fashioned million year way) unless we mine that moon of Saturn... So I'm working on doing my part. This summer I'm going to way insulate the attic space in my house. That'll save me money, ROI is something like 5 years. In a couple years I'll invest in a closed loop solar hot water system (has to be closed loop, its way too cold here for open). In 10 years or so I expect solar to be down in the $1/watt range so I'll probably install some of that. I replaced my 28mpg 240D with my 38mpg 190D but the 240D needed replacing anyway. My 15mpg Dakota needs replacing, I'm looking for something in the 18-20mpg range. Its not that everybody needs to run out and buy a Smart but lets face facts that somebody who lives in the city and drives a Tahoe is squandering resources. Anybody who bitches about CF bulbs hasn't bought one in a decade. A 20w CF produces as much or more light than a 75w incandescent bulb. It makes less heat and lasts longer too. As the incandescent bulbs around the house die I'm putting in CF. When our washer/dryer dies I'll look for more economical replacements although the ones we have are pretty small... When the furnace dies I'll talk it over with the furnace guy. A more efficient furnace is probably a better quality unit anyway... Little things, here and there. Not sexy or exciting though... -Curt ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: The eco debate
I tried a bunch of CF bulbs in the garage, and couldn't see a thing. They were very expensive to buy too. I did like the colour of light they gave tough. Anyway, I swapped them all our for the older style 4' tubes running the length of the garage. I can now see all the wax I missed on the car, before I pull it out into the sunlight. I'm sure the CF have a place, but for many applications, I don't care for them. I found the base of them very bulky too. that may change in time. Ed 300E On 22/02/2008, R A Bennell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sorry, but I am just not sold on the CF bulbs. I have tried to be. I have bought and installed some but they just don't seem to fit well in the lamps that I have used them in. We have one in a table lamp on a dresser in our bedroom that works OK. I tried using them in the basement ceiling and that didn't work out. The basement is unfinished work area and the bulbs do not produce enough light and do not last long. I am uncertain as to why but they don't. I tried to put one in a torchier floor lamp but the tri-light style bulb is too tall and sticks above the glass. I don't like looking at it so I have gone back to a shorter bulb. It is a CF but I no longer have tri-light capability because the smaller bulb is only one wattage. Works but not like the lamp was intended as I have to turn the switch a couple of times to get it on and off. I am finding that I need a whole lot more light as I get older. When we moved into our house in 1981 my wife and I swapped bulbs until everything was 40W and it was fine. Over the years we have moved up to 60W and then 100W and then on to halogen 150W and ceiling fixtures with more bulbs and it still seems dark to me sometimes. Getting old is a pain in the you know what. Randy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Curt Raymond Sent: Friday, February 22, 2008 3:07 PM To: Diesel List Subject: [MBZ] OT: The eco debate So think of it this way, there is global warming or probably is anyway, its pretty well established. The question is did humans cause it. If we didn't theres nothing we can do and we die. If we did we need to change our evil ways or we die. So if we do nothing we die. If we change our evil ways we have a 50% chance of dying. Your choice is certain death or a 50% chance of death. On fuel, oil IS going to run out. There WILL be a time when there ISN'T any more oil in the ground. Thats why we need more fuel efficient vehicles. To hell with the ecological debate. Once we're out of oil it'll be a LONG dammed time before we get more (assuming we make more the old fashioned million year way) unless we mine that moon of Saturn... So I'm working on doing my part. This summer I'm going to way insulate the attic space in my house. That'll save me money, ROI is something like 5 years. In a couple years I'll invest in a closed loop solar hot water system (has to be closed loop, its way too cold here for open). In 10 years or so I expect solar to be down in the $1/watt range so I'll probably install some of that. I replaced my 28mpg 240D with my 38mpg 190D but the 240D needed replacing anyway. My 15mpg Dakota needs replacing, I'm looking for something in the 18-20mpg range. Its not that everybody needs to run out and buy a Smart but lets face facts that somebody who lives in the city and drives a Tahoe is squandering resources. Anybody who bitches about CF bulbs hasn't bought one in a decade. A 20w CF produces as much or more light than a 75w incandescent bulb. It makes less heat and lasts longer too. As the incandescent bulbs around the house die I'm putting in CF. When our washer/dryer dies I'll look for more economical replacements although the ones we have are pretty small... When the furnace dies I'll talk it over with the furnace guy. A more efficient furnace is probably a better quality unit anyway... Little things, here and there. Not sexy or exciting though... -Curt ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: The eco debate
Part of the problem here is the huge market for information. Everybody and his grandfather is doing scientific research and every day there's another contradicting study getting covergae from somewhere. Bad fat, good fat, drink more, drink less, peak oil, no peak oillots of noise, very little signal. Zedic ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: The eco debate
A benz CDI powered by what? Thanks, Tom 256-656-1924 -Original Message- From: Jeff Zedic [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: 2/22/08 5:02 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: The eco debate Curt, That's exactly what we need to hear! Sensible policies! Now if more people would do that we'd save a lot of pollution! Never mind global warming, let's just think of all the pollution your filthy COAL power plants produce! More nukes! And a space elevator to get rid of the waste (no joke) Let's look into boron, wind, wave, water, whatever! Imagine not having to spend billions to defend the oil patch? Imagine not having to have this silly debate because we solved the problem and can make our own power cleanly? (and then go buy a new Benz CDI with your savings) Zedic ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.9/1293 - Release Date: 2/22/2008 9:21 AM ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: The eco debate
When did you last buy them?? They practically give the things away here. You can buy 6 for $5..I can't even look directly at the bulb because a 13 watt is too bright and hurts my eyes! Zedic ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: The eco debate
Curt, That's exactly what we need to hear! Sensible policies! Now if more people would do that we'd save a lot of pollution! Never mind global warming, let's just think of all the pollution your filthy COAL power plants produce! More nukes! And a space elevator to get rid of the waste (no joke) Let's look into boron, wind, wave, water, whatever! Imagine not having to spend billions to defend the oil patch? Imagine not having to have this silly debate because we solved the problem and can make our own power cleanly? (and then go buy a new Benz CDI with your savings) Zedic ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: The eco debate
I saw some photos of our city about 100 years ago. Couldn't see the lake for all the smog from the coal being burned. Lead mercury in all the paint we used up until the 70's, lots of that funky insulation material in houses, brake pads, and best we didn't look too close at the plumbing and what was in the water that came out. Many things are better today. They say we have more cars today, and it's true. It's also true 30 years ago, everyone on my street drove a car with a 400 cub engine, or larger, with no cat, and leaded gas. I suspect with all the extra cars today, we still enjoy better air quality today. It ain't all doom and gloom. Oh, and the Russians think we've peeked and are entering into the a cooling period now. Will be fun to see where we are in 2-30 years. I suspect we'll still be able to go into a mercedes dealer, and buy a smart type car, or a gasser with a 6 litre engine, just as we can today, and just as we could back in '75. Ed 300E On 22/02/2008, Jeff Zedic [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Part of the problem here is the huge market for information. Everybody and his grandfather is doing scientific research and every day there's another contradicting study getting covergae from somewhere. Bad fat, good fat, drink more, drink less, peak oil, no peak oillots of noise, very little signal. Zedic ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: The eco debate
Yes, it seems that CF bulbs are often sold on a special deal that I assume somebody funds to help the cause. For instance we got like four boxes of them for free at Ace Hardware. Nothing to sign, and it was as simple as that. This was a special limited time thing though. And I think I've seen at Home Depot that there is a rebate or something that makes them quite cheap. Brian On Fri, Feb 22, 2008 at 3:03 PM, Jeff Zedic [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: When did you last buy them?? They practically give the things away here. You can buy 6 for $5..I can't even look directly at the bulb because a 13 watt is too bright and hurts my eyes! Zedic ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: The eco debate
$8 each. Ed 300E On 22/02/2008, Jeff Zedic [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: When did you last buy them?? They practically give the things away here. You can buy 6 for $5..I can't even look directly at the bulb because a 13 watt is too bright and hurts my eyes! Zedic ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: The eco debate
That's like paying retail. Not something I'd be proud of. -Dave Walton On Fri, Feb 22, 2008 at 6:26 PM, E M [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: $8 each. Ed 300E On 22/02/2008, Jeff Zedic [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: When did you last buy them?? They practically give the things away here. You can buy 6 for $5..I can't even look directly at the bulb because a 13 watt is too bright and hurts my eyes! Zedic ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: The eco debate
ha ha ha, Ed 300E On 22/02/2008, dave walton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That's like paying retail. Not something I'd be proud of. -Dave Walton On Fri, Feb 22, 2008 at 6:26 PM, E M [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: $8 each. Ed 300E On 22/02/2008, Jeff Zedic [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: When did you last buy them?? They practically give the things away here. You can buy 6 for $5..I can't even look directly at the bulb because a 13 watt n/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: The eco debate
I'm all for doing my part to save the planet, but I'll only give up my W140 when you pry it from my cold dead hands. -Dave Walton On Fri, Feb 22, 2008 at 6:48 PM, E M [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ha ha ha, Ed 300E On 22/02/2008, dave walton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That's like paying retail. Not something I'd be proud of. -Dave Walton On Fri, Feb 22, 2008 at 6:26 PM, E M [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: $8 each. Ed 300E On 22/02/2008, Jeff Zedic [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: When did you last buy them?? They practically give the things away here. You can buy 6 for $5..I can't even look directly at the bulb because a 13 watt n/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: The eco debate
Two things I've read lately on this subject, I did say read, not study. First, some brains in the UK said global cold will kill more folks than global warm. Shortage of food will become much more important than shortage of oil. Harry On Fri, Feb 22, 2008 at 5:25 PM, E M [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I saw some photos of our city about 100 years ago. Couldn't see the lake for all the smog from the coal being burned. Lead mercury in all the paint we used up until the 70's, lots of that funky insulation material in houses, brake pads, and best we didn't look too close at the plumbing and what was in the water that came out. Many things are better today. They say we have more cars today, and it's true. It's also true 30 years ago, everyone on my street drove a car with a 400 cub engine, or larger, with no cat, and leaded gas. I suspect with all the extra cars today, we still enjoy better air quality today. It ain't all doom and gloom. Oh, and the Russians think we've peeked and are entering into the a cooling period now. Will be fun to see where we are in 2-30 years. I suspect we'll still be able to go into a mercedes dealer, and buy a smart type car, or a gasser with a 6 litre engine, just as we can today, and just as we could back in '75. Ed 300E On 22/02/2008, Jeff Zedic [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Part of the problem here is the huge market for information. Everybody and his grandfather is doing scientific research and every day there's another contradicting study getting covergae from somewhere. Bad fat, good fat, drink more, drink less, peak oil, no peak oillots of noise, very little signal. Zedic ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: The eco debate
Harry Watkins wrote: Two things I've read lately on this subject, I did say read, not study. First, some brains in the UK said global cold will kill more folks than global warm. Shortage of food will become much more important than shortage of oil. I also read somewhere that human caused global warming, if it exists, would slightly lessen the impact of the next ice age. (but not enough for us not to notice that it's getting pretty cold out there) ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: The eco debate
The problem in the basement is usually that the CF bulbs don't like being base up. They're not a very good choice for that. The smart money in your basement is 32w flourescent tubes. They're the best for efficiency vs light thrown of anything which is why they see such widespread use. In most houses they look a bit too, lets say industrial, but in a basement they're good. My basement has a couple but they aren't placed very well, just one more thing on the list... -Curt Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 16:02:08 -0600 From: R A Bennell [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: The eco debate To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Sorry, but I am just not sold on the CF bulbs. I have tried to be. I have bought and installed some but they just don't seem to fit well in the lamps that I have used them in. We have one in a table lamp on a dresser in our bedroom that works OK. I tried using them in the basement ceiling and that didn't work out. The basement is unfinished work area and the bulbs do not produce enough light and do not last long. I am uncertain as to why but they don't. I tried to put one in a torchier floor lamp but the tri-light style bulb is too tall and sticks above the glass. I don't like looking at it so I have gone back to a shorter bulb. It is a CF but I no longer have tri-light capability because the smaller bulb is only one wattage. Works but not like the lamp was intended as I have to turn the switch a couple of times to get it on and off. I am finding that I need a whole lot more light as I get older. When we moved into our house in 1981 my wife and I swapped bulbs until everything was 40W and it was fine. Over the years we have moved up to 60W and then 100W and then on to halogen 150W and ceiling fixtures with more bulbs and it still seems dark to me sometimes. Getting old is a pain in the you know what. Randy - Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: The eco debate
Don't we? Ocean levels will rise, theres really no debate there. Fresh water stocks will become more precious, its already hard for farmers in places like California to compete with population for water... Sure I don't know if it'll kill us off like fish in a pond that gets too warm but I know it'll cause problems. As a side note I can't take credit for the idea (I ment to write an attribution before) theres a video on Youtube (I think) where a guy puts this forth, I just happen to agree. -Curt Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 16:06:42 -0600 From: Donald Snook [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [MBZ] OT: The eco debate To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Curt wrote: So if we do nothing we die. If we change our evil ways we have a 50% chance of dying. Your choice is certain death or a 50% chance of death. There is a flaw in your logic. The flaw is based on your assumption that global warming is a) getting worse b) actually going to cause us harm. Your argument is basically if we do something, we can reduce the risk that it is going to kill us. BUT, you have completely left out another possibility. Global warming (regardless of its cause) may not cause any harm. What we do not know is whether the 1 degree increase in temperature that we have experienced over the last 100 years is going to have any affect on us or the planet. Donald H. Snook - Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: The eco debate
Anybody ever stop to ponder how much oil we'd save if we didn't have to fight for oil? How the hell much diesel are we burning every day in Iraq? Everybody says We'll figure out something to use instead of oil but I think very few people want to face up to the idea that we need to start getting onto our alternatives SOON. The RE crowd says that every dollar you spend on increased efficiency is $5 you don't have to spend on production... -Curt Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 17:02:07 -0600 From: Jeff Zedic [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: The eco debate To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Curt, That's exactly what we need to hear! Sensible policies! Now if more people would do that we'd save a lot of pollution! Never mind global warming, let's just think of all the pollution your filthy COAL power plants produce! More nukes! And a space elevator to get rid of the waste (no joke) Let's look into boron, wind, wave, water, whatever! Imagine not having to spend billions to defend the oil patch? Imagine not having to have this silly debate because we solved the problem and can make our own power cleanly? (and then go buy a new Benz CDI with your savings) Zedic - Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: The eco debate
Jeff Zedic [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: When did you last buy them?? They practically give the things away here. You can buy 6 for $5..I can't even look directly at the bulb because a 13 watt is too bright and hurts my eyes! I can buy 4 packs of 60W incandescents for less than a dollar if I keep my eyes open. Since the CFs I've tried don't last any longer, I don't see the point. Also they contain mercury which means you have to feel guilty about throwing them in the garbage. Allan -- 1983 300D ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: The eco debate
Curt Raymond [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: So think of it this way, there is global warming or probably is anyway, its pretty well established. The question is did humans cause it. If we didn't theres nothing we can do and we die. If we did we need to change our evil ways or we die. So if we do nothing we die. If we change our evil ways we have a 50% chance of dying. Your choice is certain death or a 50% chance of death. News flash, we're going to die anyway. Allan -- 1983 300D ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: The eco debate
Northern polar ice caps are melting. Did anyone mention that the southern polar ice caps are GROWING? On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 16:06:42 -0600, Donald Snook [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Curt wrote: So if we do nothing we die. If we change our evil ways we have a 50% chance of dying. Your choice is certain death or a 50% chance of death. There is a flaw in your logic. The flaw is based on your assumption that global warming is a) getting worse b) actually going to cause us harm. Your argument is basically if we do something, we can reduce the risk that it is going to kill us. BUT, you have completely left out another possibility. Global warming (regardless of its cause) may not cause any harm. What we do not know is whether the 1 degree increase in temperature that we have experienced over the last 100 years is going to have any affect on us or the planet. Donald H. Snook -- Luther KB5QHUAlma, Ark '87 300SDL (272,xxx mi) head case '85 Ford F250 6.9 diesel (x58,xxx mi) '82 300CD (166 kmi) '82 300D (74 kmi) getting donor engine-sold '85 300D (280,176) parts car sans engine ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: The eco debate
And glaciers around the world are retreating. I didn't say I knew the answer I'm saying that to accuse the other side of ignoring signs and practicing junk science while ignorning signs and practicing junk science is hypocritical. -Curt Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 20:43:46 -0600 From: Luther [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: The eco debate To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-15 Northern polar ice caps are melting. Did anyone mention that the southern polar ice caps are GROWING? - Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: The eco debate
Southern ice caps are growing?? Can you send me a link to that? The last I saw in the Antarctic, a 5 km long ice shelf cracked off and floated away causing great concern to the local population. Zedic ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: The eco debate
Allan, I'm wondering if you perhaps have a voltage fluctuation issue that causes them to burn out. Perhaps you may need to address something there. I have replaced ALL of the lights in my apartment building, 34 unit low-rise I co-own. I did that 2 years ago and haven't replaced one yet. Zedic ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: The eco debate
On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 22:34:04 -0600 Jeff Zedic [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Southern ice caps are growing?? Can you send me a link to that? The last I saw in the Antarctic, a 5 km long ice shelf cracked off and floated away causing great concern to the local population. You haven't paid much attention: http://www.nature.com/news/2005/050516/full/news050516-10.html A British journal, nonetheless. Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: The eco debate
OH NO! THE ICE AGE IS COMING!! :) Luther On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 22:45:41 -0600, Craig McCluskey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 22:34:04 -0600 Jeff Zedic [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Southern ice caps are growing?? Can you send me a link to that? The last I saw in the Antarctic, a 5 km long ice shelf cracked off and floated away causing great concern to the local population. You haven't paid much attention: http://www.nature.com/news/2005/050516/full/news050516-10.html A British journal, nonetheless. Craig -- Luther KB5QHUAlma, Ark '87 300SDL (272,xxx mi) head case '85 Ford F250 6.9 diesel (x58,xxx mi) '82 300CD (166 kmi) '82 300D (74 kmi) getting donor engine-sold '85 300D (280,176) parts car sans engine ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: The eco debate
And how about this? http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/1880566.stm This is from 5 years ago. I like how already we're talking not about Global Warming, but more accurately, climate change.At least this particular scientist they speak to is using I haven't got an agenda speech. Zedic ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: The eco debate
Antarctic has a local population? Thanks, Tom 256-656-1924 -Original Message- From: Jeff Zedic [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: 2/22/08 10:34 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: The eco debate Southern ice caps are growing?? Can you send me a link to that? The last I saw in the Antarctic, a 5 km long ice shelf cracked off and floated away causing great concern to the local population. Zedic ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.9/1293 - Release Date: 2/22/2008 9:21 AM ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: The eco debate
Does anyone have access to the FULL article?Headlins don't tell you anything...they sell magazines Zedic ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: The eco debate
It seems than at Fri, 22 Feb 2008 15:25:51 -0800, Zoltan wrote: Yes, it seems that CF bulbs are often sold on a special deal that I assume somebody funds to help the cause. For instance we got like four boxes of them for free at Ace Hardware. Nothing to sign, and it was as simple as that. This was a special limited time thing though. Yea. To bad they have mercury in them Solve one problem an cause another. --Philip ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: The eco debate
yeah, but we took the mercury out of house paints for a few years now, so it will all balance out in the end. Hmmm, and I thought it was the base of the bulb that was making them so heavy. hee hee. Ed 300E On 23/02/2008, Fmiser [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It seems than at Fri, 22 Feb 2008 15:25:51 -0800, Zoltan wrote: Yes, it seems that CF bulbs are often sold on a special deal that I assume somebody funds to help the cause. For instance we got like four boxes of them for free at Ace Hardware. Nothing to sign, and it was as simple as that. This was a special limited time thing though. Yea. To bad they have mercury in them Solve one problem an cause another. --Philip ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
