Re: [MBZ] Valve Adjustment, Tools, Timing chain, Diesel Purge, etc.
Well that is what I am going to do with that nasty 606 from now on. Might give Gump a ream, just for grins when her GP change around 300k. On Friday, March 17, 2006, at 07:12 PM, Marshall Booth wrote: redghost wrote: Reamer is very important. The carbon builds up and can interfere with the GP doing its job. The plug will cook and short out much sooner if the crud is not removed at each change of GP. Paid $600 to have all the crud removed in the e300d because the last guy to install GP #5 did not, and it died inside, having cemented itself to the carbon. You need to remove that junk so the GP seats well. Try Rusty for the tool, or PP always has them in their booklet On the OM606 engines reaming is MUCH more important than it is on older engines (unless a plug is hard to get out). I haven't needed a reamer for more than 20 years, but if I had an OM606 engine I'd use a reamer every time I changed plugs. Marshall -- Marshall Booth (who doesn't respond to unsigned questions) der Dieseling Doktor [EMAIL PROTECTED] '87 300TD 182Kmi, '84 190D 2.2 229Kmi, '85 190D 2.0 161Kmi, '87 190D 2.5 turbo 237kmi ___ http://www.striplin.net For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net -- Clay Seattle Bioburner 1972 220D - Gump 1995 E300D - Cleo 1987 300SDL - POS - DOA The FSM would drive a Diesel Benz
Re: [MBZ] Valve Adjustment, Tools, Timing chain, Diesel Purge, etc.
Tom offered: Valve adjustment is an art as much as a science. Remember, you use feeler gauges. You have to learn the proper feel of the gauge at the correct adjustment. That said; the only way to learn is to do it several times. I suggest you get someone who has done it before to guide you through the first time. I always found doing valve adjustments an oddly pleasing task. Something about the way the feeler gauge slides through the gap...it's very hands-on and tactile. I haven't done it on a Mercedes, yet, but I've done it on aircooled VWs and on a Honda Civic. The Civic was easier -- I didn't have to lay down on the ground to get to the cylinder head. David Brodbeck '83 300D Turbo
Re: [MBZ] Valve Adjustment, Tools, Timing chain, Diesel Purge, etc.
OK Don wrote: The feel part of using a feeler gauge is to have some resistance when pulling the gauge through the gap, but not so much that it's changing the gap -- no resistance means that the gap is too wide. One thing I've found helpful, when I'm in doubt, is to do a go/no-go test. Try a gauge the next size up from the spec. It should fail to go through. The proper size gauge should go through with a slight drag, and the next smallest gauge should fall through with no resistance. It's a feel sort of thing...with the proper adjustment, the gauge will go through, but you'll feel it slide against the surface on each side. Be careful not to tilt or twist the gauge, or you'll get a false reading.
Re: [MBZ] Valve Adjustment, Tools, Timing chain, Diesel Purge, etc.
Reamer is very important. The carbon builds up and can interfere with the GP doing its job. The plug will cook and short out much sooner if the crud is not removed at each change of GP. Paid $600 to have all the crud removed in the e300d because the last guy to install GP #5 did not, and it died inside, having cemented itself to the carbon. You need to remove that junk so the GP seats well. Try Rusty for the tool, or PP always has them in their booklet On Friday, March 17, 2006, at 05:06 AM, Levi Smith wrote: Also on the subject of tools... How important is the glow plug reamer, and what's the best place to get one? -- Clay Seattle Bioburner 1972 220D - Gump 1995 E300D - Cleo 1987 300SDL - POS - DOA The FSM would drive a Diesel Benz
Re: [MBZ] Valve Adjustment, Tools, Timing chain, Diesel Purge, etc.
I've only owned my MB for 2 years now, but I've done at least 5 valve adjust, and it's a fairly straight forward job. For the order, do the valves first and then diesel purge and change your filters. The main spinon filter has a suggested interval of 15kmi, so it can be changed the same time you do each valve adjust. Tools: Go to Harbor Freight or your FLPS and buy a cheap set of 13mm (???not sure on the size...might be 14 or 15mm...) open end wrenches. Heat them with a tourch and bend them at a 45o angle. I'm sure someone else on the list can provide a picture today. Glow plug reamer? Ask OK Don what size dowel rod he used, get's the job done just as well. Timing chain stretch, look from the back of the car toward the front at the back side of the timing gear on the cam shaft. There is a notch on te drivers side at about 9 o'clock. Watch the gear as you turn the engine over by hand, and you will see an arrow. Line these up, then look down behind the belts to the back of the crank shaft pully, and you will see a series of numbers (10, 5, 0, 5, 10). There you read the stretch. Do this several times and take the average. If you are off just a little bit up at the cam shaft, it's magnified down at the stretch markings. Purge, just hold the throttle at 2500-3000 with your hand until most of the purge is gone. Do not be startled if the purge quickly turns black, that is a good sign that you are cleaning the crap/sludge out of the injection system. I'm sure others on the list can give you more pointers, this is just my humble experience. Luther ~OK, so I haven't yet decided on whether I'm going to attempt the valve ~adjustment on my 83' 300D myself or hope I can find someone who knows ~what they're doing. If I decide to go that route, it sounds further ~complicated since from what I recall the engine is supposed to be cold ~as in let to sit overnight. ~ ~Either way, I know it's been discussed before, but I can't seem to find ~the references. Where's the best/cheapest place to get the valve ~adjustment tools? Or wouldn't I really need them? I didn't see them ~listed at buymbparts. I think I saw a set on ebay but for $100. I was ~thinking someone said you could get them for more like $50... ~ ~Also on the subject of tools... How important is the glow plug reamer, ~and what's the best place to get one? ~ ~And I keep hearing about the timing chain stretch. If I do the valves ~myself, is it quite easy to measure the stretch at that time? Or do I ~still need to dig deeper or disconnect the chain or some such thing to ~measure it? ~ ~ ~And I got a couple cans of diesel purge. Is this best done at idle, or ~should I try to rig it up so I can drive around with it? ~ ~And on the same lines, does it make much difference what order I do the ~valve adjustment/diesel purge? ~ ~Thanks! ~Levi ~Might be getting time to wake the 83' 300D from it's winter slumber... ~ ~___ ~http://www.striplin.net ~For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ ~For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~ ~To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: ~http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net -- Luther KB5QHU Alma, Ark '83 300SD (231,xxx kmi) '82 300CD (159,222 kmi) '82 300D (74,000 kmi) needs MAJOR work
Re: [MBZ] Valve Adjustment, Tools, Timing chain, Diesel Purge, etc.
the references. Where's the best/cheapest place to get the valve adjustment tools? Or wouldn't I really need them? Supposedly it can be done without, but it's rather painful. I made my own out of long 14mm wrenches from the pawnshop and a torch. Don't start with flimsy ones as the bends you put in them really cut down their rigidity. The third wrench is rarely needed, it's just to keep the valve keeper from spinning (negating attempts to change valve lash), but it rarely does this. Also on the subject of tools... How important is the glow plug reamer, and what's the best place to get one? Not very, unless you need one! So far I have not. They are most necessary when you've had a plug burned out for awhile but have kept driving it, allowing it to really coke up in there. And I keep hearing about the timing chain stretch. If I do the valves myself, is it quite easy to measure the stretch at that time? Trivial. But make _sure_ you are using the right dingus on the crankshaft damper to read the scale against! -- Jim
Re: [MBZ] Valve Adjustment, Tools, Timing chain, Diesel Purge, etc.
Who learned valve adjustment on a 1939 Chevrolet Coupe. 60 Falcon for me. As I recall, several times I did it while the engine was idling. I don't really recommend this method! (On that pushrod engine it was neither dangerous nor very messy, but it's not very easy and is kind of hard on the tools. I was experimenting. The things you do in high school...) -- Jim
Re: [MBZ] Valve Adjustment, Tools, Timing chain, Diesel Purge, etc.
My father always adjusted (and made me too) the Chevrolet valves with the engine hot and idling. It was not a lot of fun what with the hot oil splashing on you. Looking back on it, I am not sure it was necessary to have the engine idling, as long as it stayed hot. Tom Potter -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jim Cathey Sent: Friday, March 17, 2006 9:32 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Valve Adjustment, Tools, Timing chain, Diesel Purge, etc. Who learned valve adjustment on a 1939 Chevrolet Coupe. 60 Falcon for me. As I recall, several times I did it while the engine was idling. I don't really recommend this method! (On that pushrod engine it was neither dangerous nor very messy, but it's not very easy and is kind of hard on the tools. I was experimenting. The things you do in high school...) -- Jim ___ http://www.striplin.net For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net
Re: [MBZ] Valve Adjustment, Tools, Timing chain, Diesel Purge, etc.
While we are on the subject, I have the proper valve adjusting tools for the M-B OM617 for loan to anyone in the Houston, TX, area. I do require a $50 deposit, until we establish a more solid relationship. Tom Potter -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jim Cathey Sent: Friday, March 17, 2006 9:28 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Valve Adjustment, Tools, Timing chain, Diesel Purge, etc. the references. Where's the best/cheapest place to get the valve adjustment tools? Or wouldn't I really need them? Supposedly it can be done without, but it's rather painful. I made my own out of long 14mm wrenches from the pawnshop and a torch. Don't start with flimsy ones as the bends you put in them really cut down their rigidity. The third wrench is rarely needed, it's just to keep the valve keeper from spinning (negating attempts to change valve lash), but it rarely does this. Also on the subject of tools... How important is the glow plug reamer, and what's the best place to get one? Not very, unless you need one! So far I have not. They are most necessary when you've had a plug burned out for awhile but have kept driving it, allowing it to really coke up in there. And I keep hearing about the timing chain stretch. If I do the valves myself, is it quite easy to measure the stretch at that time? Trivial. But make _sure_ you are using the right dingus on the crankshaft damper to read the scale against! -- Jim ___ http://www.striplin.net For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net
Re: [MBZ] Valve Adjustment, Tools, Timing chain, Diesel Purge, etc.
Tom offered: Valve adjustment is an art as much as a science. Remember, you use feeler gauges. You have to learn the proper feel of the gauge at the correct adjustment. That said; the only way to learn is to do it several times. I suggest you get someone who has done it before to guide you through the first time. That's what I'm thinking. I may just ask Mr. Jim Friesen for a lesson sometime thins spring :o) BobRentfro '77 300D 150K Litchfield Park, AZ
Re: [MBZ] Valve Adjustment, Tools, Timing chain, Diesel Purge, etc.
On the wrenches, the other writer was correct. Get some cheap open-end wrenches (14 or 15mm? I think), put the open end in a vise, heat it with a torch about 1 inch above the working part, bend it 45 deg, then heat it again about 2 in beyond that and bend it back the other way so it is parallel to the working end. I got a couple at HF, made in India (from recycled ships or something, no doubt), for $3 or so for a set of 5 -- I got two sets and use the othersin the set for beating on things. These are functionally indistinguishable from the $100 sets. You will need to buy the feeler gauges, not very expensive though, Sears or auto parts store. There is another tool called out to hold the big washer at the bottom from turning, you can use a screwdriver slid in there if it does turn. The chain stretch is readily apparent when you have the valve cover off, and the cam gear cleaned off a bit at the front where the chain is, so you can see the mark. Also clean the engine well so you can see the timing marks on the damper (is that the damper?) down below. I had to use a brush on mine with some degreaser to get the grime off so I could see the marks. It's pretty easy to do -- the hardest part is getting the throttle linkage stuff off so you can get the valve cover off. That takes a couple of allen wrenches in tight places and prying the balls/sockets, and a screw or two. Not hard, just fiddly. Oh, and you might want to replace the valve cover gasket while you're at it. I think you are supposed to when it comes off, but don't really have to do that. It is not a hard job, and a good satisfaction-feeler when done. Wimpier guys in the neighborhood will be amazed when they see you working on an engine with the guts exposed, and will feel compelled to rush home to reply to those emails we all get. --R Levi Smith wrote: OK, so I haven't yet decided on whether I'm going to attempt the valve adjustment on my 83' 300D myself or hope I can find someone who knows what they're doing. If I decide to go that route, it sounds further complicated since from what I recall the engine is supposed to be cold as in let to sit overnight. Either way, I know it's been discussed before, but I can't seem to find the references. Where's the best/cheapest place to get the valve adjustment tools? Or wouldn't I really need them? I didn't see them listed at buymbparts. I think I saw a set on ebay but for $100. I was thinking someone said you could get them for more like $50... Also on the subject of tools... How important is the glow plug reamer, and what's the best place to get one? And I keep hearing about the timing chain stretch. If I do the valves myself, is it quite easy to measure the stretch at that time? Or do I still need to dig deeper or disconnect the chain or some such thing to measure it? And I got a couple cans of diesel purge. Is this best done at idle, or should I try to rig it up so I can drive around with it? And on the same lines, does it make much difference what order I do the valve adjustment/diesel purge? Thanks! Levi Might be getting time to wake the 83' 300D from it's winter slumber... ___ http://www.striplin.net For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net
Re: [MBZ] Valve Adjustment, Tools, Timing chain, Diesel Purge, etc.
I'll sell mine for $40, no relationship needed other than coin of the realm. Houston or not. --R Potter, Tom E wrote: While we are on the subject, I have the proper valve adjusting tools for the M-B OM617 for loan to anyone in the Houston, TX, area. I do require a $50 deposit, until we establish a more solid relationship. Tom Potter -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jim Cathey Sent: Friday, March 17, 2006 9:28 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Valve Adjustment, Tools, Timing chain, Diesel Purge, etc. the references. Where's the best/cheapest place to get the valve adjustment tools? Or wouldn't I really need them? Supposedly it can be done without, but it's rather painful. I made my own out of long 14mm wrenches from the pawnshop and a torch. Don't start with flimsy ones as the bends you put in them really cut down their rigidity. The third wrench is rarely needed, it's just to keep the valve keeper from spinning (negating attempts to change valve lash), but it rarely does this. Also on the subject of tools... How important is the glow plug reamer, and what's the best place to get one? Not very, unless you need one! So far I have not. They are most necessary when you've had a plug burned out for awhile but have kept driving it, allowing it to really coke up in there. And I keep hearing about the timing chain stretch. If I do the valves myself, is it quite easy to measure the stretch at that time? Trivial. But make _sure_ you are using the right dingus on the crankshaft damper to read the scale against! -- Jim ___ http://www.striplin.net For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net ___ http://www.striplin.net For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net
Re: [MBZ] Valve Adjustment, Tools, Timing chain, Diesel Purge, etc.
They're 14mm open-end wrenches. On 3/17/06, Rich Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'll sell mine for $40, no relationship needed other than coin of the realm. Houston or not. --R Potter, Tom E wrote: While we are on the subject, I have the proper valve adjusting tools for the M-B OM617 for loan to anyone in the Houston, TX, area. I do require a $50 deposit, until we establish a more solid relationship. Tom Potter -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jim Cathey Sent: Friday, March 17, 2006 9:28 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Valve Adjustment, Tools, Timing chain, Diesel Purge, etc. the references. Where's the best/cheapest place to get the valve adjustment tools? Or wouldn't I really need them? Supposedly it can be done without, but it's rather painful. I made my own out of long 14mm wrenches from the pawnshop and a torch. Don't start with flimsy ones as the bends you put in them really cut down their rigidity. The third wrench is rarely needed, it's just to keep the valve keeper from spinning (negating attempts to change valve lash), but it rarely does this. Also on the subject of tools... How important is the glow plug reamer, and what's the best place to get one? Not very, unless you need one! So far I have not. They are most necessary when you've had a plug burned out for awhile but have kept driving it, allowing it to really coke up in there. And I keep hearing about the timing chain stretch. If I do the valves myself, is it quite easy to measure the stretch at that time? Trivial. But make _sure_ you are using the right dingus on the crankshaft damper to read the scale against! -- Jim ___ http://www.striplin.net For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net ___ http://www.striplin.net For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net ___ http://www.striplin.net For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net -- Sunil Hari 1992 300D 2.5T - 286Kmi. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 513-205-7474
Re: [MBZ] Valve Adjustment, Tools, Timing chain, Diesel Purge, etc.
'51 VW 1100cc engine for me -- cold and stopped. The only valves I've adjusted while the engine was running were new hydraulic tappets on a Chevy or Ford - can't remember which - you turned till they stopped rattling. On 3/17/06, Jim Cathey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Who learned valve adjustment on a 1939 Chevrolet Coupe. 60 Falcon for me. As I recall, several times I did it while the engine was idling. -- OK Don, KD5NRO Norman, OK '90 300D 243K, Rattled '87 300SDL 290K, Limo Lite, or blue car '81 240D 173K, Gramps, or yellow car '78 450SLC 67K, brown car '97 Ply Grand Voyager 78K Van Go
Re: [MBZ] Valve Adjustment, Tools, Timing chain, Diesel Purge, etc.
I've never bothered to get and bend a set of wrenches - I just use straight ones. Probably takes longer to mess around and get things lined up so you can use them, but it can be done. The feel part of using a feeler gauge is to have some resistance when pulling the gauge through the gap, but not so much that it's changing the gap -- no resistance means that the gap is too wide. Test all the valves before loosening the adjusting nuts - some will probably be OK. I usually have a least a couple that are OK. You can get a feel for using the gauge while checking them. The manual specifies a sequence for adjusting the valves, but I always just turn the engine till a cam lobe is pointing straight up, then adjust that valve, keeping track of whether it's intake or exhaust, and whether I've already adjusted it. If it's a leisurely day, I 'll turn the engine over a couple of times (by hand) then check all the valves again. However, that's the exception --- I don't remember what the dowel size was, and I only needed to use it once, on one glow plug. It was what I found lying around the fit. Most of the time you don't need it. On 3/17/06, Luther Gulseth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've only owned my MB for 2 years now, but I've done at least 5 valve adjust, and it's a fairly straight forward job. For the order, do the valves first and then diesel purge and change your filters. The main spinon filter has a suggested interval of 15kmi, so it can be changed the same time you do each valve adjust. Tools: Go to Harbor Freight or your FLPS and buy a cheap set of 13mm (???not sure on the size...might be 14 or 15mm...) open end wrenches. Heat them with a tourch and bend them at a 45o angle. I'm sure someone else on the list can provide a picture today. Glow plug reamer? Ask OK Don what size dowel rod he used, get's the job done just as well. -- OK Don, KD5NRO Norman, OK '90 300D 243K, Rattled '87 300SDL 290K, Limo Lite, or blue car '81 240D 173K, Gramps, or yellow car '78 450SLC 67K, brown car '97 Ply Grand Voyager 78K Van Go
Re: [MBZ] Valve Adjustment, Tools, Timing chain, Diesel Purge, etc.
OK, so how would one know when one needs to use a reamer? OK Don wrote: I don't remember what the dowel size was, and I only needed to use it once, on one glow plug. It was what I found lying around the fit. Most of the time you don't need it. On 3/17/06, Luther Gulseth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've only owned my MB for 2 years now, but I've done at least 5 valve adjust, and it's a fairly straight forward job. For the order, do the valves first and then diesel purge and change your filters. The main spinon filter has a suggested interval of 15kmi, so it can be changed the same time you do each valve adjust. Tools: Go to Harbor Freight or your FLPS and buy a cheap set of 13mm (???not sure on the size...might be 14 or 15mm...) open end wrenches. Heat them with a tourch and bend them at a 45o angle. I'm sure someone else on the list can provide a picture today. Glow plug reamer? Ask OK Don what size dowel rod he used, get's the job done just as well. -- OK Don, KD5NRO Norman, OK '90 300D 243K, Rattled '87 300SDL 290K, Limo Lite, or blue car '81 240D 173K, Gramps, or yellow car '78 450SLC 67K, brown car '97 Ply Grand Voyager 78K Van Go
Re: [MBZ] Valve Adjustment, Tools, Timing chain, Diesel Purge, etc.
Levi Smith wrote: OK, so how would one know when one needs to use a reamer? If the old plug was stubborn about coming out (you had to wiggle it) then a reamer would be desirable. Marshall -- Marshall Booth (who doesn't respond to unsigned questions) der Dieseling Doktor [EMAIL PROTECTED] '87 300TD 182Kmi, '84 190D 2.2 229Kmi, '85 190D 2.0 161Kmi, '87 190D 2.5 turbo 237kmi
Re: [MBZ] Valve Adjustment, Tools, Timing chain, Diesel Purge, etc.
Mercedes Shop Forum may rent them out cheap. Also mercedessource.com sells a set for around $50. Hazet run around $75 to $90 used.- Original Message - From: Levi Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, March 17, 2006 8:06 AM Subject: [MBZ] Valve Adjustment, Tools, Timing chain, Diesel Purge, etc. OK, so I haven't yet decided on whether I'm going to attempt the valve adjustment on my 83' 300D myself or hope I can find someone who knows what they're doing. If I decide to go that route, it sounds further complicated since from what I recall the engine is supposed to be cold as in let to sit overnight. Either way, I know it's been discussed before, but I can't seem to find the references. Where's the best/cheapest place to get the valve adjustment tools? Or wouldn't I really need them? I didn't see them listed at buymbparts. I think I saw a set on ebay but for $100. I was thinking someone said you could get them for more like $50... Also on the subject of tools... How important is the glow plug reamer, and what's the best place to get one? And I keep hearing about the timing chain stretch. If I do the valves myself, is it quite easy to measure the stretch at that time? Or do I still need to dig deeper or disconnect the chain or some such thing to measure it? And I got a couple cans of diesel purge. Is this best done at idle, or should I try to rig it up so I can drive around with it? And on the same lines, does it make much difference what order I do the valve adjustment/diesel purge? Thanks! Levi Might be getting time to wake the 83' 300D from it's winter slumber... ___ http://www.striplin.net For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net
