Mersenne: RE: expired exponents
Hi Robert, [Robert van der Peijl:] We might not need a special version of prime95. How about if the _PrimeNet server_ itself only issue expired exponents to "power"-users? If that is a real possibility, perhaps Scott Kurowski could look into that? I would instead recommend a broader strategy that expires exponents based upon the assignment age (days run) and current iteration at null (not started), perhaps at 60 days age. Did someone already suggest that? This will have the system effect of generally causing machines that grab and hold excess exponents to lose smaller exponents to new or more productive machines, while making up for those losses by grabbing fewer, ever larger exponents. This would happen in addition to the current automatic expiration process. The risk that a machine actually started a long-held exponent before contacting the server to learn it had been reassigned is somewhat greater. The result would be slightly more frequent 'opportunistic' double-check passes as the machine forges along to complete the then-redundant test, probably after the reassignment machine finishes. Maybe that's a good thing. George Woltman manages the server's individual exponent and range assignments from time to time. If overriding a 'squatter' is important enough, he could do so manually. However, if server changes are necessary, we defer to him for those requirements. (If there are replies, please cc me directly since I receive only the Mersenne list digests.) regards, scott kurowski Entropia, Inc. San Diego, California P.S. if there are any GIMPS folks on this list nearby, I'll treat lunch or beers... I left Ernst and Luke in Silicon Valley. :-( _ Unsubscribe list info -- http://www.scruz.net/~luke/signup.htm Mersenne Prime FAQ -- http://www.tasam.com/~lrwiman/FAQ-mers
Re: Mersenne: prime95 - v21 progress
On 9 Mar 2001, at 0:45, Henk Stokhorst wrote: Maybe it would be a good idea to have a special version of prime95 that has an option to request exponents that have expired after having been reserved for a long time without any progress being on the work for that exponent. No need for this. Henk, I'll mail you privately explaining why. The server should issue those exponents only to people who have that option. Two problems here: (a) needs a server fix; with due respect I think there are other things which need fixing more urgently e.g. keeping proper tabs on P-1 so that work is not replicated wastefully. (b) reeks of elitism. Whilst I understand your motives, I think there are a lot of people who would object for that reason. That would help prevent exponents expiring multiple times. Is that _really_ a problem? If anything it only points out a lack of commitment to the project amongst some of the contributors. Regards Brian Beesley _ Unsubscribe list info -- http://www.scruz.net/~luke/signup.htm Mersenne Prime FAQ -- http://www.tasam.com/~lrwiman/FAQ-mers
Mersenne: prime95 - v21 progress
Robert van der Peijl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on Wed, 7 Mar 2001 03:11:22 +0100: We would have to uglify (is that good English?) the user interface however, to make the whole thing believable. In answer to your question, Alice didn't think so: `I only took the regular course,' said the Mock Turtle with a sigh. `What was that?' inquired Alice. `Reeling and Writhing, of course, to begin with,' the Mock Turtle replied; `and then the different branches of Arithmetic-- Ambition, Distraction, Uglification, and Derision.' `I never heard of "Uglification," Alice ventured to say. `What is it?' The Gryphon lifted up both its paws in surprise. `What! Never heard of uglifying!' it exclaimed. `You know what to beautify is, I suppose?' `Yes,' said Alice doubtfully: `it means--to--make--anything-- prettier.' `Well, then,' the Gryphon went on, `if you don't know what to uglify is, you ARE a simpleton.' from Alice's Adventures in Wonderland, by Lewis Carroll Lewis Carroll was a Professor of Mathematics (a rather dull one, if the stories are true) but this small book, written to entertain a little girl, is what has eternalized his name (not to put a damper on anyone's day). By the way... "Eternalized"... Is that good English? Best regards, Dennis Pope _ Unsubscribe list info -- http://www.scruz.net/~luke/signup.htm Mersenne Prime FAQ -- http://www.tasam.com/~lrwiman/FAQ-mers
Re: Mersenne: prime95 - v21 progress
At 11:09 AM 3/9/01 +, you wrote: That would help prevent exponents expiring multiple times. Is that _really_ a problem? If anything it only points out a lack of commitment to the project amongst some of the contributors. *THAT* is precisely the reason that such people should not be assigned the very exponents that are most necessary to reaching the next "milestones". For those of us that measure progress both in Teraflops and in milestones, we've not seen much lately, mainly due to the things that Henk was complaining about. _ Unsubscribe list info -- http://www.scruz.net/~luke/signup.htm Mersenne Prime FAQ -- http://www.tasam.com/~lrwiman/FAQ-mers
Mersenne: numbering the messages
To those of you who are afraid of missing some postings on this list. It's common knowledge that e-mail servers are down from time to time. That and other reasons could cause you to miss out on some of the postings from the list. The mersenne list digests are numbered sequentially. Suppose the messages sent to the subscribers of the mersenne discussion list were (also) numbered sequentially. (The counter could be reset to 0 on a yearly basis) It would then be easier for each of us to quickly spot any dropped messages. For instance, I'm counting 221 Mersenne list messages on my computer since 1-1-2001. (That's if I count from Martijn's message written on 1 Jan 12:14:14 +0100 up to and incl. Brian Beesley's message written on 9 Mar 11:09:53 -) What's your count? How useful/practical/difficult would it be to have the messages numbered automagically? Robert. _ Unsubscribe list info -- http://www.scruz.net/~luke/signup.htm Mersenne Prime FAQ -- http://www.tasam.com/~lrwiman/FAQ-mers
Re: Mersenne: RE: expired exponents
On 9 Mar 2001, at 2:24, Scott Kurowski wrote: I would instead recommend a broader strategy that expires exponents based upon the assignment age (days run) and current iteration at null (not started), perhaps at 60 days age. Did someone already suggest that? I think that's a _brilliant_ idea. It's probably not hard to implement, either. The downside that needs to be discussed is what happens to manual tests (e.g. using programs that don't have PrimeNet client code). At present these can be extended (kept alive) using the manual testing page, but there is no way of signalling the current iteration using this form. I think PrimeNet would probably have to be made aware of which assignments were being handled manually and have these assignments exempted from "early release" on the grounds of apparent inactivity. AFAIK this shouldn't destroy the policy, as those using the PrimeNet manual testing forms are probably amongst the more conscientious contributors. (?) [... snip ...] The result would be slightly more frequent 'opportunistic' double-check passes as the machine forges along to complete the then-redundant test, probably after the reassignment machine finishes. Maybe that's a good thing. For LL test assignments, this is undoubtedly true. For double-check assignments, we'd probably end up with a small number of "accidental" triple-checks. IMO this is not a real problem, _provided_ the number really is small. George Woltman manages the server's individual exponent and range assignments from time to time. If overriding a 'squatter' is important enough, he could do so manually. However, if server changes are necessary, we defer to him for those requirements. Indeed there are frequent incidents of assignments which are "lagging" being "pirated". Obviously widespread abuse of the automatic assignment scheme should _not_ be encouraged, but anyone who is really upset can actually do something about it even now - providing they don't mind PrimeNet not crediting the CPU time! Regards Brian Beesley _ Unsubscribe list info -- http://www.scruz.net/~luke/signup.htm Mersenne Prime FAQ -- http://www.tasam.com/~lrwiman/FAQ-mers
Re: Mersenne: RE: expired exponents
Scott Kurowski wrote: P.S. if there are any GIMPS folks on this list nearby, I'll treat lunch or beers... I left Ernst and Luke in Silicon Valley. :-( ___ Speaking of Silicon Valley, its past time we had another GIMPS party up this way. I was planning to suggest one when we found our next MP, but since that hasnt happened, well, we just can't wait to have a prime schmooze. Im not so generous as Scott to buy everyone's dinner, but Ill pop for a pitcher or two. Who wants to go for prime rib at the Tied House in Palo Alto? When? spike _ Unsubscribe list info -- http://www.scruz.net/~luke/signup.htm Mersenne Prime FAQ -- http://www.tasam.com/~lrwiman/FAQ-mers
Re: Mersenne: Re: GIMPS parties (was: expired exponents)
Hello fellow GIMP members. I like Steve's idea about that one. I am from New Jersey. ~~Marky E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Mersenne: numbering the messages
Robert van der Peijl wrote: How useful/practical/difficult would it be to have the messages numbered automagically? If its not too much trouble, then automatic numbering would be pretty helpful. But I'm not sure many people would pay attention to it. Regards, Joshua Zelinsky [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com _ Unsubscribe list info -- http://www.scruz.net/~luke/signup.htm Mersenne Prime FAQ -- http://www.tasam.com/~lrwiman/FAQ-mers
Re: Mersenne: RE: expired exponents
Spike Jones wrote: Scott Kurowski wrote: P.S. if there are any GIMPS folks on this list nearby, I'll treat lunch or beers... I left Ernst and Luke in Silicon Valley. :-( ___ Speaking of Silicon Valley, its past time we had another GIMPS party up this way. I was planning to suggest one when we found our next MP, but since that hasnt happened, well, we just can't wait to have a prime schmooze. Im not so generous as Scott to buy everyone's dinner, but Ill pop for a pitcher or two. Who wants to go for prime rib at the Tied House in Palo Alto? When? Are there any East Coast GIMPS members at all? :) Joshua Zelinsky [EMAIL PROTECTED] New Haven, Ct. _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com _ Unsubscribe list info -- http://www.scruz.net/~luke/signup.htm Mersenne Prime FAQ -- http://www.tasam.com/~lrwiman/FAQ-mers
Mersenne: Security of prime95 + electricity costs.
Hey guys, A lot of people who I've tried to persuade to join have been worried about two issues. 1. How will Prime95 affect security? I don't think there would be any major problems created, but the readme doesn't discuss this much and this isn't my area of expertise. Any thoughts? 2.What the are actual monetary costs would be of running Prime95. In particular, what are the percentage increases from normal costs. Answer to both of these would help a lot. Sincerely, Joshua Zelinsky [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com _ Unsubscribe list info -- http://www.scruz.net/~luke/signup.htm Mersenne Prime FAQ -- http://www.tasam.com/~lrwiman/FAQ-mers
Re: Mersenne: Re: GIMPS parties (was: expired exponents)
Same here. Cali is a bit far to travel for a broke colege student in Oklahoma :) Perhaps there is a better, more centrally located area. - Jeramy - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, March 09, 2001 1:40 PM Subject: Re: Mersenne: Re: GIMPS parties (was: expired exponents) Hello fellow GIMP members. I like Steve's idea about that one. I am from New Jersey. ~~Marky E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Mersenne: prime95 - v21 progress
At 10:00 PM 3/9/01 +, you wrote: Isn't the "problem" just that the milestones are rather a long way apart at the moment? Does it _really_ matter that there's an outstanding exponent around 3.25 million which needs double-checking when there are so many more to go before we complete double-checking up to 6973593 - which is the next obvious milestone, after completing coverage of first tests up to that value, and always assuming that we don't find another prime smaller than Hajratwala's Number in the meantime? Actually, the next obvious milestone is checking all below M(6972593) for the first time. There are 67 exponents unchecked at all below that exponent, and that number has been VERY VERY slow to reduce, mainly due to number campers or 386's trying to test that number. I also massaged today's assignments report, and found that there are over 200 exponents assigned over a year ago (and some as far back as 1998), NOT including those expected to take that long (i.e. 33 million+). Some exponents have been run for over a year, and have "days to run" estimates of 2900 days or more -- yes, nearly EIGHT YEARS. The point is that we could crank through these laggards if the Primenet server would have simply ensured they were assigned to a "top 1000" producer, or to a machine of sufficient calibre and reliability (historically, per prior test results). You said you had a good reason not to do that, but didn't want to post it here (you were going to mail it privately to Henk). Why not discuss it here? Somehow the laggards always do get swept up in the end; there seems to be an adequate supply of self-appointed "gap fillers" (or pirates, according to your point of view). The result is that many of the assignments which are the "longest overdue" eventually end up with three, four or even more completed LL tests. Said "overchecking" could be eliminated by ensuring that the oldest exponents are assigned to the most reliable machines possible. _ Unsubscribe list info -- http://www.scruz.net/~luke/signup.htm Mersenne Prime FAQ -- http://www.tasam.com/~lrwiman/FAQ-mers
Re: Mersenne: prime95 - v21 progress
On Fri, 09 Mar 2001 10:12:43 -0500 Jeff Woods [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 11:09 AM 3/9/01 +, you wrote: That would help prevent exponents expiring multiple times. Is that _really_ a problem? If anything it only points out a lack of commitment to the project amongst some of the contributors. *THAT* is precisely the reason that such people should not be assigned the very exponents that are most necessary to reaching the next "milestones". For those of us that measure progress both in Teraflops and in milestones, we've not seen much lately, mainly due to the things that Henk was complaining about. I consider the attitude "GOTTA GET IT DONE" to be rat-race oriented rather than thank-you-for-participating oriented. It implies to those with less-than-state-of-the-art equipment: "__You__ are an obstacle in the way of GOTTA GET IT DONE -- there are no seats for you on this bus". Would the world come to an end tomorrow if the GIMPS participants were more tolerant of those who do __not__ measure progress in Teraflops ? mikus _ Unsubscribe list info -- http://www.scruz.net/~luke/signup.htm Mersenne Prime FAQ -- http://www.tasam.com/~lrwiman/FAQ-mers
Re: Mersenne: prime95 - v21 progress
On Fri, 09 Mar 2001 17:27:42 -0500 Jeff Woods [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The point is that we could crank through these laggards if the Primenet server would have simply ensured they were assigned to a "top 1000" producer, or to a machine of sufficient calibre and reliability (historically, per prior test results). Is that what we want - an elitist organization which SEGREGATES those participants to whom we do not attribute "sufficient calibre" ? Why not discuss it here? I thought this project was an association of VOLUNTEERS. I believe we should welcome ALL who offer to participate. mikus _ Unsubscribe list info -- http://www.scruz.net/~luke/signup.htm Mersenne Prime FAQ -- http://www.tasam.com/~lrwiman/FAQ-mers
Mersenne: Re: rat race (was prime95 - v21 progress)
Hi all, At 03:00 PM 3/9/2001 -0600, Mikus Grinbergs wrote: I consider the attitude "GOTTA GET IT DONE" to be rat-race oriented rather than thank-you-for-participating oriented. It implies to those with less-than-state-of-the-art equipment: "__You__ are an obstacle in the way of GOTTA GET IT DONE -- there are no seats for you on this bus". The mailing list has covered this several times in the past. I suggest there is a middle ground - maybe GET IT DONE IN SEMI-REASONABLE TIME. Both camps have very valid points. One camp wants to see steady progress. The other knows that all machines can usefully contribute. If you own a less-that-state-of-the-art machine and want to run first time tests that will take a year or more to complete, that's OK. However, it is not unreasonable for the GIMPS community to suggest an exponent in the 9 million and up area rather than a recycled one below M(6972593). Changing prime95/primenet to only recycle smallest-500 double-checks and smallest-500 first-time tests to PII-300 or better machines might address the concerns of both camps. I don't think distinguishing between long-time and new users makes sense - the 3 month timeout before another PII-300 gets the exponent should not slow down progress greatly. Since prime95/primenet does not currently support the above it is GIMPS' fault, not the fault of the current user with the slow machine! Regards, George _ Unsubscribe list info -- http://www.scruz.net/~luke/signup.htm Mersenne Prime FAQ -- http://www.tasam.com/~lrwiman/FAQ-mers
Re: Mersenne: numbering the messages
On Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 03:23:04PM -0500, Joshua Zelinsky wrote: Robert van der Peijl wrote: How useful/practical/difficult would it be to have the messages numbered automagically? If its not too much trouble, then automatic numbering would be pretty helpful. But I'm not sure many people would pay attention to it. I think that the intention is for it to be server side and included in the X-Headers eg: From: Steve [EMAIL PROTECTED] X-Mersenne-Count for 2001 is message 229 The first line in the example is one that my machine puts in the header of the message, and the second line is a line that is put there by the server that manages the list. It'd make more sence if the number didn't go back to zero each year, that way you could do without the date in that part of the header, so it could become just: X-Mersenne-Count 229 But having said all of that I don't really think there's much point in doing this. -- Cheers Steve email mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] %HAV-A-NICEDAY Error not enough coffee 0 pps. web http://www.zeropps.uklinux.net/ or http://start.at/zero-pps 1:39am up 36 days, 3:20, 2 users, load average: 1.58, 1.32, 1.14 _ Unsubscribe list info -- http://www.scruz.net/~luke/signup.htm Mersenne Prime FAQ -- http://www.tasam.com/~lrwiman/FAQ-mers
