Re: [meteorite-list] glassface1
The IMCA can only be effective if it has some real teeth to back up it's bark. This would require a lot of work to investigate cases of alleged fraud and then taking steps to expose the errant person or remove them from the IMCA if they are a member. This takes time and most people don't like to work for free. Does anyone know if the IMCA staff is still working at being an active and potent organization? Best, John At 01:05 AM 2/21/2004 -0500, magellon wrote: If that someone else buys the fake, that means they won't be buying our real ones and that means we just sold our meteorite for less than we could have. Huh? It just means they are buying fakes. The thing that hurts everyone, are the burnt new buyers that quit the hobby. The more who join, the more demand. The more demand, the more valuable your meteorites become. Less demand, Less value. IMCA is the answer. The more new persons who join, the more who will be educated to the glassface1's. However, one may have to be burnt once to wise up. And that one quickly learns about IMCA. While they are being educated they can purrchase from IMCA members and not have to worry. Ebay deals with this kinda the same as law enforcement. You can't have a criminal without a victim to accuse him. If enough victims say fraud then ebay acts But only the victims can make the claim. The person can not only be thrown off ebay but can also do jail time. http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/online/auctions.htm http://www1.ifccfbi.gov/index.asp http://www.consumer.gov/sentinel/ Best, ken IMCA # 9632 www.IMCA.cc http://home.earthlink.net/~magellon/wrongs1.html Tom aka James Knudson wrote: Hello Randy and list, Randy wrote let the buyer beware, that's fine, but, I am trying to protect the sellers as well, including myself. If someone is selling fake meteorites and us collectors won't buy them, someone else will. If that someone else buys the fake, that means they won't be buying our real ones and that means we just sold our meteorite for less than we could have. Then, sellers, to make a profit have to raise there prices and we all have to pay more. It seems that a lot of legitimate sellers are members of the IMCA and we are the ones getting hurt! I think the IMCA members should stick together and fight these fraudulent sellers to protect ourselves. I also think legitimate sellers that are not IMCA members feel the same way. It hurts us all. Am I wrong?Thanks, Tom peregrineflier IMCA #6168 - Original Message - From: Randy Mils To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, February 20, 2004 8:09 PM Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] glassface1 It has been stated on this list time and time and time again. LEAVE EBAY ALONE. It is not the IMCA's job to police ebay sellers. Let the buyer beware. Randy From: Tom aka James Knudson To: Subject: [meteorite-list] glassface1 Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 17:13:40 -0700 Hey List, this glassface1 Can't even keep the lies strait! Can't something be done about this seller? May be the IMCA can put on an ebay add about fraudulent sellers and how to identify them? Meteorite *ALLENDE* CV3 It's my last one http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie Itemitem=2227157587category=3239 But then lists another one later Meteorite: CV3 Allende Special Huge Stone http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?View temitem=2227224342category=3239 Thanks, Tom peregrineflier IMCA #6168 __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list - Store more e-mails with MSN Hotmail Extra Storage 4 plans to choose from! __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] OT; Steve Arnold of Chicago ?
Hello Sorry for this list, but I am trying to get a hold of Steve Arnold of Chicago. Steve are you getting my emails? Thanks, Tom peregrineflier IMCA #6168 __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] glassface1
In a message dated 2/21/2004 8:19:08 AM Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Does anyone know if the IMCA staff is still working at being an active and potent organization? Yes, we are. And we have taken care of a few "errant persons". But we work privately, one on one. We do not air dirty laundry in public. And Ken-Magellon has been very succesful at convincing "errant" sellers on Ebay of their errors. However, before we can do anything at all, we must have facts, rumors and ear-say won't do. And that has been the most difficult part in most cases. We also had a major problem with our web site (Thanks to Yahoo) but that has now been fixed and the site is alive and well at a new address: www.IMCA.cc. Of course the address on all the logos now has to be changed. Jim Hartman and Rhett Bourland are working on that, it is just a matter of time. Any other questions? Anne M. Black www. IMPACTIKA.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] IMCA #2356
Re: [meteorite-list] glassface1
Hi Randy all, Since it is not the job of the IMCA to police fraudulence, can anyone tell me WHAT IS the IMCA's job? When the IMCA was first started, I was under the misimpression that this WAS the point. That is why I joined. What is the IMCA for? I have long wondered this - really, why does the IMCA exist I may want to continue membership, but I would like to know the answer to this question, if I am to do so. (Oh, and please don't tell me it is to guarantee authenticity and honesty among members - as we have all seen several members who violate such behavior, and they STILL have IMCA numbers). RSVP (on the list, please. I believe many may wonder what the point of the IMCA is) Thanks, Michael on 2/20/04 7:09 PM, Randy Mils at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It is not the IMCA's job to police ebay sellers. -- When Jesus said Love your enemies I think he probably meant don't kill them. Anonymous -- For perspective, try THIS: http://micro.magnet.fsu.edu/primer/java/scienceopticsu/powersof10/index.html -- cool message fro Ben Jerry: www.TrueMajority.org/oreo -- AMAZING photos of Aurora Borealis, etc. http://faculty.rmwc.edu/tmichalik/atmosphere.htm -- Hubble space telescope - AMAZING photos!: http://wires.news.com.au/special/mm/030811-hubble.htm -- http://www.costofwar.com/ -- SUPPORT OUR TROUPS: http://www.takebackthemedia.com/onearmy.html -- Worth Seeing: Earth at night from satellite: http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/image/0011/earthlights_dmsp_big.jpg -- - Interactive Lady Liberty: http://doody36.home.attbi.com/liberty.htm -- Earth - variety of choices: http://www.fourmilab.ch/earthview/vplanet.html -- Michael Blood Meteorites: http://www.michaelbloodmeteorites.com/ __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] glassface1
In a message dated 2/21/2004 3:26:46 PM Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: What is the IMCA for? I have long wondered this - really, why does the IMCA exist I may want to continue membership, but I would like to know the answer to this question, if I am to do so. (Oh, and please don't tell me it is to "guarantee" authenticity and honesty among members - as we have all seen several members who violate such behavior, and they STILL have IMCA numbers). RSVP (on the list, please. I believe many may wonder what the point of the IMCA is) Michael, I'll repeat what I just wrote: "And we have taken care of a few "errant persons". But we work privately, one on one. We do not air dirty laundry in public. And Ken-Magellon has been very succesful at convincing "errant" sellers on Ebay of their errors. However, before we can do anything at all, we must have facts, rumors and ear-say won't do. And that has been the most difficult part in most cases." If you have PROOFS, lets hear them. Privately. Anne M. Black www. IMPACTIKA.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] IMCA #2356
[meteorite-list] Sikhote fireballs
Dear List, I have a speculative question about the visual characteristics of Sikhote Alin fireballs. The Other day I was describing the visualcharacteristics of the Sikhote Alin fireball/s to a neighbor who has just started collecting meteorites. For the most part this was easy to do because there were so many witnessess to much of the flight trajectory through the atmosphere. However, it is my understanding that nobody was in or near the location of the strewnfield at the time.It is probably safe to assume that most of the thumbprinted individuals behaved like typical meteorites: they lostall of their cosmic velocity in the atmosphere, went dark,and fluttered gently to the ground like black snowflakes, showeringdown at a few hundred miles per hour. However, I don't have a clue about what the impacts of the fastest shrapnal-producing pieces would have looked like to a hypothetical observer. Does anyone know whether these fastest pieces were moving rapidly enough to remain luminous all the way to the ground? Also, were the impacts themselves intense enough to produce fireballs? It is my understanding that there was no evidence of burning at any of the impact sites. However thatmay not preclude the possibility that there was a brief instant of fairly high temperatures at an impact site. For example, many cloud to ground lightening strikes do not produce fires (even in the absence of rain) despite producing plently oflight and heat. Anyhow, maybe I have to much free time today, but I thought I'd ask. Any thoughts would be appreciated. Sincerely Stephen McMann Store more e-mails with MSN Hotmail Extra Storage 4 plans to choose from! __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Allende on Ebay
Wow, I'm going to be rich !!! Iv'e got about $20,000 of this stuff right outside my backdoor. And now I know there are people willing to buy it ! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=2225807035category=3239sspagename=STRK%3AMEBWA%3AITrd=1 Bob Evans
[meteorite-list] Dashoguz meteorite fall for sale!
Hi everyone, I have finally got a piece of the Dashoguz meteorite fall. This meteorite fell on September 5, 1998 in Turkmenistan. only ~7 kilograms of fragments were found in a small crater after a fireball went over the city of Dashoguz. This is the first time I have ever seen any of it. I got a 1.7 kilogram fragment today. This meteorite is fragile, has lots of metal and many metal nodules throughout. I have cut it up into some nice partslices and a few fragments. Most of it is absolutely pristine, with the exception of one side with fusion crust which hit the ground and shows some imbedded dirt and slight rust. I am keeping the fusion crusted piece, so the stuff for sale is pristine. If you want a piece of this fall check my website or email me directly. http://www.meteoriteguy.com/dashoguz.htm http://www.meteoriteguy.com/dashoguz2.htm Please get back with me ASAP as I am leaving town next week for some time. This is all of the material available, so don't wait. Mike Farmer
[meteorite-list] Shatter Cones
Hello List, How can one tell whether or not a shatter cone was actually created by a meteorite impact if you didn`t find it at or near the crater? I picked a shatter cone up one day while out hunting, thinking it was a shell fossil. Thanks, Steve Culver __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Last Call For Fresh NWA3045 Indivs + Cheap NWA482
Good Evening Everyone, I just wanted to take this opporitunity to offer a few of of those fresh NWA 3045 individuals that you probably have already seen on the marketthey're great! I still have a couple for sale, one around 7g (pebble with black, bubbly crust) and the other around 14g which is kinda pyramid (nosecone) shapped with a little rust on one side but some flowlines on the other to make up for it! These are quite affordable at $15 and $30 ...and worth every penny? Please email for a photo if interested. Also, I had a very nice complete .19g slice (with crust!) of lunar NWA 482 but I broke it into two pieces on accident : ( Anyway, its still a very nice, thin, two part specimen that fits together perfectly. Price drop on this one to only $1500/g (normally around $4000/g elsewhere) My loss is your gain. $285 shipped and includes COA and three different NWA 482 postcards...please email for a photo. Thanks! -Ryan __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Sikhote Birthday + Favorite Photos
A late entry I know, my favorite Sikhote is this 235 gram Krinov specimen. http://imagehost.vendio.com/preview/ra/rancor/KrinovSikhote.jpg Rob Wesel -- We are the music makers... and we are the dreamers of the dreams. Willy Wonka, 1971 __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] glassface1
Hi Michael and List Just in from observing. Finally saw the planetary nebula in M46 tonight (yea!). really, why does the IMCA exist You are a member of an organization and you don't even know why it exists? Actually, there is no such organization as the IMCA. No legal organization, that is. Here is part of an email I sent to an IMCA board member earlier this week: This is just my opinion as I am certainly no lawyer. I have been in the courtroom so many times I had to throw away my file of subpoenas to make room for other documents in my desk drawer. Legally, it seems to me that there is no such thing as the IMCA. The IMCA at minimum needs a charter and an ethics code and needs to be incorporated in some state, otherwise legal appearing decisions would be interpreted in a court of law as having been made by individuals acting on behalf of themselves and not a recognized entity. Here is a hypothetical example. If the IMCA (which BTW is misnamed as it should be the IMSA - another reason why I don't join) makes an adverse decision against a meteorite seller, and the seller could prove that his/or business had been negatively impacted by the decision (e.g., slander or libel) the person would bring suite against the individual decision makers, not the IMCA as an entity. Whether or not the suit has merit is irrelevant as your attorney(s) would not work for pro bono and I doubt meteorite sales are good enough to cover thousands in legal fees. The IMCA has no recognized (legal) authority to admit members, withhold membership, dismiss members, police ebay, etc. One of the reasons why I have not joined. Also, I was (and remain) under the impression that the reason some people wanted to form such a group was to increase their sales of meteorites on ebay. I know this next statement may anger many people, which is not my intention, but I too am not sure why the IMCA exists. I don't see any activities related to COLLECTING meteorites. It seems to me that most of the activity is directed toward SELLING meteorites. I would think that a COLLECTING organization would be concerned with activities such as: -proper curation, storage and display. -experimenting with different preserving methods -outreach programs. -informational publications. -perhaps a traveling meteorite exhibit with accompanying educational information for schools. -programs to encourage collecting among perhaps secondary school students (the future of the hobby, so-to-speak). -supplying cut unclassified meteorites to science classes at cost so they can submit part of the meteorite to a lab (perhaps a designated lab working with the IMCA) for analysis (at least preliminary analysis) so as to actively participate in the science of meteoritics and thus encouraging future collecting. -providing a list of speakers who are willing to give talks about collecting meteorites before groups (pro bono or paid). -negotiating with dealers to get the best prices for certain meteorites for members. -negotiating with businesses to get the best prices on collecting supplies (e.g., riker mounts, jewel cases, desiccant products, lapidary supplies, etc.) for members. -negotiating with insurers who specialize in insuring collectables to get the best prices on insurance for members. -establishing liaisons with the academic world to try to avoid confrontations or misunderstandings between researchers and collectors. -establishing a library of meteorite and related books, videos, and other media to be loaned to members for their personal education. -etc.,etc.,etc. I do see individuals engaging in some of these activities, and I certainly applaud their efforts, but I don't see the IMCA engaging in any of these activities as a collecting organization which proposes to represent meteorite collectors. -Walter -- www.branchmeteorites.com - Original Message - From: Michael L Blood [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Randy Mils [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, February 21, 2004 5:25 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] glassface1 Hi Randy all, Since it is not the job of the IMCA to police fraudulence, can anyone tell me WHAT IS the IMCA's job? When the IMCA was first started, I was under the misimpression that this WAS the point. That is why I joined. What is the IMCA for? I have long wondered this - really, why does the IMCA exist I may want to continue membership, but I would like to know the answer to this question, if I am to do so. (Oh, and please don't tell me it is to guarantee authenticity and honesty among members - as we have all seen several members who violate such behavior, and they STILL have IMCA numbers). RSVP (on the list, please. I believe many may wonder what the point of the IMCA is) Thanks, Michael on 2/20/04 7:09 PM, Randy Mils at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It is not the IMCA's job to police ebay sellers. -- When Jesus
[meteorite-list] Conservation of Meteorites
Hello All, As a slight digression from a post on the aims of the IMCA, I'd like to initiate some discussion on meteorite conservation. I used to be a museum director/curator and conservator of conventional archaeological and ethnographic items. I know there has been some discussion on meteorite conservation and I wonder if anyone is gathering this information in one place? I may go down to the Getty Conservation Institute and see what they have to say. I know the Canadian Conservation Institute is quite active. But I don't think either of them have addressed the conservation of meteorites, at least not yet! Perhaps I should start an information page on the subject. What I would like to see are scientific papers on the pros and cons of various techniques. Especially important would be comparative tests of different techniques. If anyone could forward citations on any relevant published papers, I would be pleased to put them on the Web. Best wishes, Nick __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Ad - unusual and rare meteorites from NWA
after actually LOOKING at the 200g L/LL3 that I bought from Blaine in Tucson, as wel las looking at the photos of Stefan's material, I must retract my previous statements.. They DO look very much alike, with the notable exception of the fusion crust. A very nice, fresh crust on the NWA 3099, and no hint of fusion crust even ever having existed on the stuff I got from Blaine... Just wanted to set the record straight... Stan From: stan . [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] CC: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ad - unusual and rare meteorites from NWA Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 23:36:47 + These subjects are worthy of discussion...though in the case of NWA 3099 I think it is unlikely they are from the same fall. Stefan tells me 3099 had a nice shiny black crust with flow lines, etc. while Blaine's piece showed no signs of crust that I can remember. Even when he pulled out the main mass of his offerings for Stan to look at...it did not have any crust as I remember. if the nwa 3099 is being compared to the 200ish g piece of l/ll3 I bought from Blain, i can pretty safely say there is no comparison. the stuff I got from Blain looks totally diffrent in terms of matrix color, chondrules, and exterior. the exterior of this stuff was typical well worn nwa desert rock. the end cut of nwa3099 I saw photos of had very fresh crust. i couldnt belive there is any chance of a pairing _ Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee when you click here. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list _ Take off on a romantic weekend or a family adventure to these great U.S. locations. http://special.msn.com/local/hotdestinations.armx __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Off topic to locate Carl re. Tucson Show
Will the Carl who sat next to me at La Fuente birthday bash please e mail me off-line? It is in reference to Gold Basin. Twink Monrad __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[Fwd: Re: [meteorite-list] Conservation of Meteorites]
Conservation as in lock them up for science? Yes, the Canadian government is very activejust ask a few list members...how do we spell Tagish Lake? For you new met. list members, Tagish Lake landed on a frozen lake and by the time acadamia got their act together, the lake had thawed and the majority of meteorites went to the bottom. Some conservation act there. The Canadien Government won a Harvey Award a year ago in Tucson for this bungle. Canada already is heavily into the conservation mode. Even private land meteorites in Canada are not the propert owners to own, in the name of conservation.. Bar code all of our private specimens! Makes it easier for the meteorite police to locate them. I personally see the term conservation as very threateningWhat I find, I offer my part (10%) as type specimen deposit for science but do not think science should control meteorites as they have the public land vertibrate fossils. Sort of borders on communism to my way of thinking. Just my opinion, I think that term conservation has a very negative tone. Dave F. pro~private collecting~free~enterprize~let~conservation~collect~its~own. The Smithsonian is turning away common H and L's now anyways I have heard. Nicholas Gessler wrote: Hello All, As a slight digression from a post on the aims of the IMCA, I'd like to initiate some discussion on meteorite conservation. I used to be a museum director/curator and conservator of conventional archaeological and ethnographic items. I know there has been some discussion on meteorite conservation and I wonder if anyone is gathering this information in one place? I may go down to the Getty Conservation Institute and see what they have to say. I know the Canadian Conservation Institute is quite active. But I don't think either of them have addressed the conservation of meteorites, at least not yet! Perhaps I should start an information page on the subject. What I would like to see are scientific papers on the pros and cons of various techniques. Especially important would be comparative tests of different techniques. If anyone could forward citations on any relevant published papers, I would be pleased to put them on the Web. Best wishes, Nick __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: Re: [meteorite-list] Conservation of Meteorites]
Take it or Leave it! That is how it is here. Dave, what about the other countries? Feel the same? Exporting Rocks, Minerals, Meteorites and Tektites from Canada http://miac.uqac.ca/MIAC/export.htm Roman Jirasek www.meteoritelabels.com - Original Message - From: David Freeman [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2004 1:02 AM Subject: [Fwd: Re: [meteorite-list] Conservation of Meteorites] Conservation as in lock them up for science? Yes, the Canadian government is very activejust ask a few list members...how do we spell Tagish Lake? For you new met. list members, Tagish Lake landed on a frozen lake and by the time acadamia got their act together, the lake had thawed and the majority of meteorites went to the bottom. Some conservation act there. The Canadien Government won a Harvey Award a year ago in Tucson for this bungle. Canada already is heavily into the conservation mode. Even private land meteorites in Canada are not the propert owners to own, in the name of conservation.. Bar code all of our private specimens! Makes it easier for the meteorite police to locate them. I personally see the term conservation as very threateningWhat I find, I offer my part (10%) as type specimen deposit for science but do not think science should control meteorites as they have the public land vertibrate fossils. Sort of borders on communism to my way of thinking. Just my opinion, I think that term conservation has a very negative tone. Dave F. pro~private collecting~free~enterprize~let~conservation~collect~its~own. The Smithsonian is turning away common H and L's now anyways I have heard. Nicholas Gessler wrote: Hello All, As a slight digression from a post on the aims of the IMCA, I'd like to initiate some discussion on meteorite conservation. I used to be a museum director/curator and conservator of conventional archaeological and ethnographic items. I know there has been some discussion on meteorite conservation and I wonder if anyone is gathering this information in one place? I may go down to the Getty Conservation Institute and see what they have to say. I know the Canadian Conservation Institute is quite active. But I don't think either of them have addressed the conservation of meteorites, at least not yet! Perhaps I should start an information page on the subject. What I would like to see are scientific papers on the pros and cons of various techniques. Especially important would be comparative tests of different techniques. If anyone could forward citations on any relevant published papers, I would be pleased to put them on the Web. Best wishes, Nick __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
