[meteorite-list] Bernd Pauli email
Dear list. I have some technical info to send to Bernd about a meteorite he bought from me last year. His old email adress does not work anymore. Please contatct me off list or send him this message. Thousand thanks Michel FRANCO Caillou Noir www.caillou-noir.com BP 16, 100 Chemin des Campènes 74400 Les Praz de Chamonix FRANCE __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: [meteorite-list] Scientists came within minutes of warning about asteroid impact..
... They rekon the body was actually (after further observation) 0.5km across, I would suspect that a body that size would vaporize a major city without too much effort! As for not telling the populus, I have mixed feelings about that, as I said I don't know if there is much we could do (other than prepare an emergency plan) the thing to do is watch the stock market and see when Donald Rumsfeld buys construction shares... :) - then panic. Te he. Mark Ford -Original Message- From: stan . [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 25 February 2004 17:06 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Scientists came within minutes of warning about asteroid impact.. We might not be able to do anything about the impact, as in preventing it, but surely there would be alot that could be done to lessen catestrophic damage. If the impact was known about 18 hours in adavnce, I'd be willing to bet that very shortly afterwards, with the resources of the entire world (instead of just 2 telescopes doing automated survays) behind the effort it wouldnt take long to find the region of the planet an impact was likely going to uccur in. After that it would be much like a hurricane warning, except with a bit less notice. a half a day before landfall of a major hurricane unpridicitibility of the path of a major storm oftentimes puts MANY millions of people on alert. people could evacuate, or prepair to shelter in place. emergancy services would be ramped up and ready to respond should the impact occur in a highly populated area, ect. __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Survival after a large impact event (Delete if you don`t wish to know)
Dear List Members, Survival of such event for most of the "civilized" world will suddenly becomeimpossible. Imagineno food, water, heat, communications, transportation, and etc. Only those in the so-called third world will have the best chance at survival. The average person in most countries does not have the ability to grow food, use tools or make shelter, let alone survive the "shock and awe" (I hate to use the words of tyrants.) of such a global event. Suddenly most of the world will be in the dark, cold and starving. Suddenly the world with "backward" and "uneducated" lifestyles will have a better advantage to survive than the elite of the world. Peoples in sparsely populated areas and living as hunter-gatherers will have the highest probability of survival followed by low technology agriculturalists. Both upper northern latitudes and lower southern latitudes will be thrown into deep freeze. Acid rain and dust will rain for months. Such a happy future to be a dinosaur. Man will finally be humbled; butsome life will continue certainly different as we know it now. NO GOVERNMENT in its right mind would give advance warning even if scientists do detect the object in time. So far, our best science is not even near early detection and even if it were there would be no plus gain. Modern technology will not be the savior of mankind that it appears, nor will capitalism or any conventional system; it will be mans' downfall. Sorry for the burden of knowing for those that didn`t want to know. I will take my meditation now. Sincerely, Dirk RossJapan Do you Yahoo!? Get better spam protection with Yahoo! Mail
RE: [meteorite-list] Bernd Pauli email
Hi Michel, I send him your message! Moni From: Michel Franco [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [meteorite-list] Bernd Pauli email Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 11:04:09 +0100 Dear list. I have some technical info to send to Bernd about a meteorite he bought from me last year. His old email adress does not work anymore. Please contatct me off list or send him this message. Thousand thanks Michel FRANCO Caillou Noir www.caillou-noir.com BP 16, 100 Chemin des Campènes 74400 Les Praz de Chamonix FRANCE __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list _ Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee when you click here. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Large Impact Event Survival (HOPE)
Dirk, No need to be so negative about humanity. Change is change and crap happens, inevitably once in a while. Your observation about "third world countries" was interesting. That is what I would like to address in the following novel which would be my prediction. I speculate just the opposite would happen. Most "third world" countries can't even manage to feed themselves now with sustinance agriculture. Hunters gatherers are not much different from the dinosaurs and they don't have warm places to live or a store to buy gas masks in. Farmers in places like the US have large storage of grains, onions, etc., and folks like those from Holland have great technology for glasshouses that could be quickly adapted. Not to mention all the nuclear fuel "developed" countries have to combate the biggest problem ... cold. So in my novel, as usual the "third world" comes out losing, and a good part of the "developed" world comes out well. And maybe all those organic farmer types and Montana survivalists, too. Not many of them. Distribution systems would become imperative and the capitalist profit motive combined with the iron hand of the "tyrants" you seem to think lowly of would kick in like you wouldn't believe or else we'd all face a "Prisoner's Dilemma". Then no one could make any money anymore. There is no doubt in my mind that I'd rather be in Houston if this happened. The oil companies would do superbly and would have wonderful support. Oh, although Japan is a "developed" country, its population would be washed off the face of the Earth, but there are so many Japanese expats that this would not be the end of them, as a matter of fact, precisely those types of people are the "tyrant" types also that would help put the pieces back together. The saddest thing would be we would loose Cape Kennedy and all of Florida, as well as the possible the French site in NE South America. The doomsayer scenarios in my humble opinion, are from people who have it too comfortable at the moment and fear change of their lifestyle, and fail to see the good nature of like minded people to their own "race" - the type that founded the Latin American countries, US, Canada, drives middle eastern countries, China and Japan for example, or if you like Ancient Greece. No moral decision on my part here - just what history seems to repeat, and maybe it would be different in our globalized world - but my guess is not by a long shot. Death comes to all at one time or another. If it were to be by asteroid, I think I would rather look forward to surviving the new world ahead, cooperate for survival, and of course, like a Hurricane Party that (sometimes referred to as dumb) Floridians are accustomed to, I would be absolutely sure to get a good view of such a spectacular event as once-in-a-lifetime doesn't do it justice. My only prayer if it were certain, would be not to be too near ground zero. But if I were, at least I would take advantage of the ring side seat with my loved ones. Saludos Doug Dawn México En un mensaje con fecha 02/26/2004 8:45:11 AM Mexico Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] escribe: Sorry for the burden of knowing for those that didn`t want to know. I will take my meditation now. Sincerely, Dirk RossJapan
[meteorite-list] Large Impact Event Survival
One of my favorite books is about just this type of scenario. It's science fiction, of course, but I've found that it might be closest to reality that fiction of this type of event can get. The book is titled Lucifer's Hammer, and is by Larry Piven and Jerry Pournelle, who have written numerous novels, and I believe that one or both of them do try to be scientifically accurate when they write their fiction. Basically, it's about a comet that impacts the Earth within a short time of being discovered by two amateur astronomers, and the resultant effects on society as seen by a particular group of survivors. The book is available at Amazon.com if not in a local bookstore. Dave Johnson __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Scientists Ponder Asteroid Scare Guidelines
http://www.pasadenastarnews.com/Stories/0,1413,206~22097~1979762 Scientists ponder asteroid scare guidelines Earth collision incorrectly calculated recently By Kenneth Chang New York Times February 25, 2004 For nine hours last month, a small band of astronomers got an unexpected scare. Their calculations indicated that a newly discovered asteroid was on a collision course with Earth, and that it had a one-in-four chance of striking the planet, somewhere in the Northern Hemisphere, in less than two days' time. It did not happen, of course. Further observations in the wee hours of Jan. 14 put the asteroid in a completely different orbit, and no threat to Earth. But the episode, the latest in a series of false alarms, pointed up the disquieting prospect of an asteroid's showing up suddenly on Earth's doorstep with no time for Hollywood heroics. No guidelines exist for who should have been informed and when and what emergency measures should have been taken, if the threat had been real. At least one planetary scientist said he was ready to recommend a public warning. I would not have been comfortable with being quiet through the next morning,' said the scientist, Clark R. Chapman of the Southwest Research Institute in Boulder Colo., who was involved in discussions of the meteor that night. I think the public should be informed of that high a probability of that big an event occurring.' Chapman presented a paper on Monday at the Planetary Defense Conference in Garden Grove, Calif., recapping the sequence of events in the evening of Jan. 13 through the morning of Jan. 14. The asteroid, now designated 2004 AS1, was not a planet killer, like the one that caused the extinction of the dinosaurs 65 million years ago, or even a city killer. Believed at the time to be about 100 feet across, 2004 AS1 would most likely have exploded with the force of a one- megaton bomb several miles up in the atmosphere. The shock waves would have set off hurricane-force winds that could have damaged buildings below. It's right at that boundary line, so we don't know how much damage it would have done,' Chapman said. An object half the size would explode harmlessly. One twice as wide would be catastrophic, he said. Donald Yeomans, head of NASA's Near Earth Objects program office, said he would not have raised an alarm until a second set of observations confirmed the collision path. He said he hoped the episode would prompt guidelines for how future warnings should be handled. Hopefully, policy-makers will take the ball and run with it,' he said. For several years, NASA has spent $3.5 million a year on surveys to locate and map the asteroids zooming through Earth's neighborhood, but the program, called Spaceguard, focuses on the larger asteroids, and the presumption that a potential impact would be years away. The Spaceguard Survey is not designed to detect objects on their final approach to Earth,' said David Morrison, a NASA space scientist. Last month's episode put a spotlight on dedicated but largely ad hoc network of professional and amateur astronomers. On Jan. 13, the Minor Planet Center of the Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics received the latest observations from Linear, short for Lincoln Near-Earth Asteroid Research, an automated telescope survey in New Mexico that is searching for new asteroids. Timothy Spahr, an astronomer at the Minor Planet Center, sifted through the information, finding several interesting, and ran the computer programs that calculated possible orbits for the new asteroids and posted them on a Web site so that other astronomers could confirm the locations. Spahr then went out to dinner with a visiting colleague from Hawaii. He did not notice that the orbit that he had calculated for one of the new asteroids went straight through the Earth. A short time later, an amateur astronomer in Germany noticed on the Minor Planet Center Web site the odd prediction that 2004 AS1 was to brighten by a factor of 40 in the next day, a indication like oncoming headlights that the object was on the express route to Earth. Soon, both amateur and professional astronomers were buzzing about this object on an Internet bulletin board devoted to asteroids. Steven R. Chesley, a senior engineer working in the Near- Earth Objects office at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena, Calif., called the Minor Planet Center asking for more details about the asteroid. Spahr was still out for dinner. Brian Marsden, director of the center, was working late and sent the details of the Linear observations four images taken over a one-hour period to Chesley. The pictures of the asteroid show only its position in the sky; how far away it is, whether 1 million miles or 50 million, is necessarily a guess based on sparse data. Marsden then changed the information on the center's Web site, now saying that the asteroid was actually moving away from Earth an orbit that still fit the observations. Spahr did not
[meteorite-list] Rosetta Launch Delayed
http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns4722 Launch of comet-chasing spacecraft delayed Maggie McKee New Scientist February 26, 2004 Strong, high-altitude winds forced the launch of Europe's comet-chasing Rosetta spacecraft to be called off early on Wednesday morning. The launch was halted 20 minutes and 40 seconds before Rosetta was scheduled to blast-off at 0436 local time from Kourou in French Guiana. Mission managers will attempt the launch again on Thursday at about the same time, but if more problems develop, they can try once every day until 17 March. Winds between 10 and 15 kilometres above the launch site arose about two hours before the scheduled lift-off at 0736 GMT. But managers of the Ariane-5 launch rocket were concerned about the direction of the wind, not its force. The launch vehicle can fly whatever the speed of the wind, said Jean-Yves Le Gall, chief executive officer of Arianespace, the rocket's manufacturer. The concern is where the debris will fall down if we have problems in flight. ESA science director David Southwood took the news in his stride but says he felt like he was all dressed up and nowhere to go. Still, he acknowledged the importance of following the protocol for possible debris damage. You have to think of every eventuality, he said. Better safe than sorry is a good approach. Rainy season Usually there are two launch opportunities per day, each separated by 20 minutes, from this site just north of the equator. But to maximise the use of fuel on the launch vehicle, Rosetta has just one chance to launch per day. Gravitational calculations have set Thursday's launch for 0736 and 50 seconds, one second after Wednesday's intended time. The launch window to reach Rosetta's target - Comet 67P/Churyumov-Gerasimenko, or Chury - will end on 17 March. Mission planners had aimed for the earliest launch opportunity in case problems arose. Roberto Lo Verde, a spokesman for ESA, says that lightning and low clouds that block mission controllers' view of the launch vehicle are other weather factors that can scupper a launch. The launch window to reach Comet Chury falls during the rainy season in Kourou, and the hours preceding Wednesday's scheduled launch were filled with rain. You come to the tropics, and it rains and you get winds, said Southwood. Everything was looking good two hours ago. Tomorrow is another day. Gravitational fields Rosetta has suffered more than its share of delays. Originally conceived in 1985, the mission was approved in 1993 and was due to launch in January 2003 to rendezvous with Comet Wirtanen. But Rosetta's managers decided to postpone the mission after a new version of the Ariane-5 launch rocket blew up in December 2002. The mission was redesigned entirely with a new flight path and a new comet. This is the first mission to attempt to orbit and land on a comet. Rosetta will take ten years to reach Chury. During its long voyage it will fly three times round the Earth and once around Mars, using the gravitational fields of these planets to slingshot itself into the correct path for the rendezvous. A few months after the spacecraft meets Chury, it will release a small cube-shaped lander on to the comet's icy core. The orbiter will then spend two years circling Chury as it travels back towards the Sun. __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: [meteorite-list] Large Impact Event Survival
Hey, This subject would make a good film! Never mind the 'Armegeddon' style Hollywood/asteroid fantasy, the chaos in the aftermath would be much more interesting! -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 26 February 2004 15:50 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [meteorite-list] Large Impact Event Survival One of my favorite books is about just this type of scenario. It's science fiction, of course, but I've found that it might be closest to reality that fiction of this type of event can get. The book is titled Lucifer's Hammer, and is by Larry Piven and Jerry Pournelle, who have written numerous novels, and I believe that one or both of them do try to be scientifically accurate when they write their fiction. Basically, it's about a comet that impacts the Earth within a short time of being discovered by two amateur astronomers, and the resultant effects on society as seen by a particular group of survivors. The book is available at Amazon.com if not in a local bookstore. Dave Johnson __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[Fwd: Re: [meteorite-list] RE: Survival after a large impact event (Delete if you don`t wish to know)]
Dear List, Mark, Dirk; I trend to agree more with Mark ...somewhat. Yes the majority of us are stupid people but indeed some are smarter type zealots. There are the remember when's too. Anyone over 65 that lives in a rural part of America still lives in fear of another great depression and has canned goods enough to eek out a year or even a couple. Anyone living the true Mormon lifestyle as good Mormons has a five year supply of food tucked away. Believe me, being near to the chosen place, there are plenty around that do. I tend to believe that technology might save some...first 7 days would be exciting, the next 7 would be the stark reality, after that, the strong willed, the strongly armed, those with strong convictions would eek along for a while. The U.S. military has enough stuff tucked back to support select groups for quite a while. Submarines can go for 6 months+ with out any help from anyone. If they made it through the initial impact, they would be around for 6 months. Long as there was oxygen around to breathe, some one (s) would be here to reproduce and off we go again Bright sunny days, Dave F. ebay user ID mjwy mark ford wrote: Dirk, I take a different view. I think that post impact, you'd be supprised, whilst developed society would certainly breakdown, the advantages of technology shouldn't be underestimated, heating, lighting water purification, vaccination - all rely on technology the third world (on the whole) simply doesn't have. It's hard to imagine even the third world countries surviving and growing food when it's -30 degrees C, even if their survival skills where better on average than those in developed countries. Basically any society that can generate electricity can grow grops make heat for plants and people and provide protection, that's if civil war didn't break out before then! It would be the quickest ones to adapt to a new climate that would survive, that is where technology comes into it's own! Mark -Original Message- From: drtanuki [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 26 February 2004 14:42 To: mark ford; meteorite-list Subject: Survival after a large impact event (Delete if you don`t wish to know) Dear List Members, Survival of such event for most of the civilized world will suddenly become impossible. Imagine no food, water, heat, communications, transportation, and etc. Only those in the so-called third world will have the best chance at survival. The average person in most countries does not have the ability to grow food, use tools or make shelter, let alone survive the shock and awe (I hate to use the words of tyrants.) of such a global event. Suddenly most of the world will be in the dark, cold and starving. Suddenly the world with backward and uneducated lifestyles will have a better advantage to survive than the elite of the world. Peoples in sparsely populated areas and living as hunter-gatherers will have the highest probability of survival followed by low technology agriculturalists. Both upper northern latitudes and lower southern latitudes will be thrown into deep freeze. Acid rain and dust will rain for months. Such a happy future to be a dinosaur. Man will finally be humbled; but some life will continue certainly different as we know it now. NO GOVERNMENT in its right mind would give advance warning even if scientists do detect the object in time. So far, our best science is not even near early detection and even if it were there would be no plus gain. Modern technology will not be the savior of mankind that it appears, nor will capitalism or any conventional system; it will be mans' downfall. Sorry for the burden of knowing for those that didn`t want to know. I will take my meditation now. Sincerely, Dirk RossJapan Do you Yahoo!? Get better spam protection with Yahoo! Mail __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Fredrickburg
Hi everyone Does anyone know what the classification for Fredrickburg is? Thanks Mike __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Large Impact Event Survival - book
Hi Dave all, I, also have read LUCIFER'S HAMMER and can't recommend it highly enough. While it is obviously fiction, it is exceptionally well written both from a scientific perspective as well as plot line, interesting characters, etc. Try it, you'll like it. Best wishes, Michael on 2/26/04 7:50 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: One of my favorite books is about just this type of scenario. It's science fiction, of course, but I've found that it might be closest to reality that fiction of this type of event can get. The book is titled Lucifer's Hammer, and is by Larry Piven and Jerry Pournelle, who have written numerous novels, and I believe that one or both of them do try to be scientifically accurate when they write their fiction. Basically, it's about a comet that impacts the Earth within a short time of being discovered by two amateur astronomers, and the resultant effects on society as seen by a particular group of survivors. The book is available at Amazon.com if not in a local bookstore. Dave Johnson __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- When Jesus said Love your enemies I think he probably meant don't kill them. Anonymous -- For perspective, try THIS: http://micro.magnet.fsu.edu/primer/java/scienceopticsu/powersof10/index.html -- cool message fro Ben Jerry: www.TrueMajority.org/oreo -- AMAZING photos of Aurora Borealis, etc. http://faculty.rmwc.edu/tmichalik/atmosphere.htm -- Hubble space telescope - AMAZING photos!: http://wires.news.com.au/special/mm/030811-hubble.htm -- http://www.costofwar.com/ -- SUPPORT OUR TROUPS: http://www.takebackthemedia.com/onearmy.html -- Worth Seeing: Earth at night from satellite: http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/image/0011/earthlights_dmsp_big.jpg -- - Interactive Lady Liberty: http://doody36.home.attbi.com/liberty.htm -- Earth - variety of choices: http://www.fourmilab.ch/earthview/vplanet.html -- Michael Blood Meteorites: http://www.michaelbloodmeteorites.com/ __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Fredrickburg
At 13.20 26/02/2004 -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Does anyone know what the classification for Fredrickburg is? Sure, Fredericksburg is an Hexahedrite IIAB. Found in Texas, TKW 30kg. bye, Dave __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Ensisheim meteorite show
Hi All Any of our US friends comming to the Ensisheim show this year ? I would like to meet you !!! Best wishes Lars Pedersen
Re: [meteorite-list] RE: Survival after a large impact event (Delete if you d...
Good points ... Did you ever see the movie Soylent Green ? If not the story of Donner Pass California ? For the greenhouse construction ... don't underestimate the value of all those glass tektites strewn around:) I meant to ask: Would a spurious rocky remanent of an asteroid be an astite (OK, maybe not), asterite or asteroidite? But to keep things positive, a little thinking out of the box never hurts. I have no doubt that the construction would happen as this isn't a Hollywood terror flick, it is a "real" situation. There is certainly several months of food supply probably at least two years out there. Everything doesn't come out of a can, the fields wouldn't be totally destroyed worldwide. Marshall law in plently of places would be fine, it is not too unlike many countries today, and a spirit of cooperation under these circumstances wiould certainly win out in my vision, since going against it would be bad for your health ... there would be a new class of very mad peasants...I don't think that would happen in the "developed" nations. Oh for the thinking out of the box ... if you don't think enough food production facilities could be set up in a few months time, I disagree there. And nuclear plants fueled by all the stockpile of arms of mass destuction sitting around. But if I am wrong there, and all this really doesn't work as it would have to, heating massive plankton and diatom water tanks could be built virtually overnight and heated. Presto: instant flavored whale food for distribution. Tastes better than dog food for sure. No doubt withing a week it could be turned into a product that farm animals like to. Maybe not cows, so get used to rabbits and chickens. Rabbits reproduce quickly, we are told... Probably the flavored diatom-plankton wouldn't taste any different from tofu and they reproduce fast in warm water with a light source. Capitalistic companis certainly would recognize the value of maintaining the customer base and not hoarding causing death and lower profits. And everyone who could do anything to cooperate would be well compensated - and this would be the focus for everyone, so still best to be in a place like a "developed" country with material resources. The only place this whole thing gets scary is what happens if the oceans began to freeze over. That sounds like it would require a major impactor though. Also, a lot of water below the frozen ocean then would make for a nice thermos. No doubt the polar caps would get a lot bigger (and everyone everywhere would be finding more new meteorites). But the heat capacity and greenhouse temporarily produced hopefully would give time to build massive atmospheric scrubbers. I suspect winds would mostly die down below the obscurity so initially, bulk atmospheric scrubbing would be easier, "at any rate". Then in the sequel to this, geothermal experts could tap into the Earth's molten magma as an additional heat source. That would make a nice Hollywood thriller, though I feel society would adapt nicely to its new circumstances. Might even be a good thing, there is too much nonesense going on between senslessly waring factions now. Nothing like a common goal to unite people and bring out their best. Whether astronauts or naughty asts. Saludos Doug Dawn Mexico En un mensaje con fecha 02/26/2004 12:33:07 PM Mexico Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] escribe: Asunto: RE: [meteorite-list] RE: Survival after a large impact event (Delete if you don`t wish to know) Fecha: 02/26/2004 12:33:07 PM Mexico Standard Time De: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Para: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Enviado por Internet I'd have to disagree from 2 standpoints: It's hard to imagine even the third world countries surviving and growing food when it's -30 degrees C, even if their survival skills where better on average than those in developed countries. eskimos, north canadians, and people in siberia, (as well as many other places) have been doing this for ages. surely SOME people will survice such an impact event Basically any society that can generate electricity can grow grops make heat for plants and people and provide protection, that's if civil war didn't break out before then! how much food generation capacity do we have in place that can be heated by artifical means almost immediatly (say by the next growing cycle)? if such an impact event were to happen tomorrow, we wouldnt have time to build 100 million acres of electrically heated greenhouses. sure technology would allow us to produce SOME food in just about any climate, but it certainly wouldnt be enough to support a large population. I'd venture to guess that it wouldnt even be enough to feed the farmers, electric grid workers, power plant engineers, fuel delivery service people, coal mine workers, and on down the line. I just dont think artificial environments would work in the macro sense. by the time we could ramp up production in such an environment large portions of the population would have died
[OT] Re: [meteorite-list] Fredrickburg
At 12.05 26/02/2004 -0700, David Freeman wrote: Dave Who? Dave F. Basilicofresco of course! Ok, in order to satisfy your pathological curiosity I will add few fundamental details. First of all... I have to disappoint you, but I'm not Matteo. My name is Davide Bolsi and I live in Parma. My favourite color is yellow, I like pallasites and I drive a Ka. (guess the colour!) My friends call me just Dave... but you can call me Dave B. if you like it. ;) bye, Dave __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] OT; Italian mafia and the mail?
At 14.29 26/02/2004 -0700, you wrote: Hello List, I know there is a great problem with the mail in Italy with the Italian mafia and all, but how long do I wait? I had an Italian winner of Ok, you probably watch Sopranos... please remember it's only a fiction. one of my auctions who had a feedback rating of 9, but one was a negative for non paying bidder. This auction ended the 2/11 and on 2/14 he said he was sending payment. Today being the 26th, I am wondering if the Italian What is the payment method? He sent cash inside an evelope or he sent a money order? However twelve days it is not an exceptional delay... I received today an oversea letter from usa sent on 16 feb. bye, Dave __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] OT; Italian mafia and the mail?
Hi, Tom, communication with someboby in Italy is no problem at all: Aska Matteo for help in translation. :-) Best_regards Best regards from DOWN-UNDER, Norbert Heike Kammel ROCKS ON FIRE IMCA #3420 www.rocksonfire.com Tom aka James Knudson wrote: Hello List, I know there is a great problem with the mail in Italy with the Italian mafia and all, but how long do I wait? I had an Italian winner of one of my auctions who had a feedback rating of 9, but one was a negative for "non paying bidder". This auction ended the 2/11 and on 2/14 he said he was sending payment. Today being the 26th, I am wondering if the Italian mafia got a hold of his mail, the mails slow from Italy, or if the buyer is pulling a second "non paying bidder" game? How long do you wait for mail to arrive from over seas? It is so hard to communicate with him due to our language differences. Thanks, Tom peregrineflier IMCA #6168 __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Help me solve a mystery - NWA mystery
Title: Nachricht Dear Bernhard and List, I very rarely comment from images alone as it is very difficult to assess stones from pictures. The shape suggests a water worn pebble more than an ablative process to me.If the refractive material were meteorite metal you would get more of pull from a magnet judging from the amount present. The things I look for are a valid fusion crust, proper shape, nickel-iron metal, shock indications and how the stone weathered. I see nothing that indicates a meteorite to me but I have been surprised a few times in the past. Very interesting stone whatever it turns out to be. All the best, Adam - Original Message - From: Bernhard "Rendelius" Rems To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2004 1:38 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Help me solve a mystery - NWA mystery Hi, app. 2 weeks ago, Steve Arnold (Illinois) sold a "mystery NWA" on ebay. This is the text that came with the auction (as often with Steve, no pic): "Up here for auction is a mystery.This is a 134.9 gram whole stone that has been cut by AL LANG.It is a unclassified NWA mystery stone.I had bob haag,richard norton,al lang,ed thompson,blaine reed, and a few others give thier opinion on what it might be.No one knows.It has a very rich dark brown matrix.Very few or none at all with chondrules.High in metal, but it pulls very weakly even with a strong magnet.You can be the lucky winner of this mystery stone and you can try and get it classified.It measures 6.5 cm x 5.2 cm x 3.8 cm.I will start the bidding at $1.00. Good luck." Well, I bidded and won the item. Today it arrived. I had a closer look at it, took some photographs and am looking for your expertise now. Let me describe the tactile impressions: The item is feels pretty cold when you hold it, and it has about the right weight for a meteorite of this size. However: the outside feels quite "soft", more like an ordinary stone than a meteorite, like a pebble that has been in the water. There is indeed a lot of metal visible from the outside, but on the cut surface, the deeper you go inside, the less metal you find. A close examination with a 10x magnification showed no chondrules at all, at least for me. Here are three photos of the object (they are quite large in order to reveal more details). I have brightened the photos and added some contrast and some mild sharpening, but I'd say they are true to the visual appearance of the object: http://metcollector.rendelius.com/mystery1.jpg http://metcollector.rendelius.com/mystery2.jpg http://metcollector.rendelius.com/mystery3.jpg So - what's your impression? Is it a meteorite at all? What is it? Bernhard
[meteorite-list] Help me solve a mystery - NWA mystery
Title: Nachricht Hi, app. 2 weeks ago, Steve Arnold (Illinois) sold a "mystery NWA" on ebay. This is the text that came with the auction (as often with Steve, no pic): "Up here for auction is a mystery.This is a 134.9 gram whole stone that has been cut by AL LANG.It is a unclassified NWA mystery stone.I had bob haag,richard norton,al lang,ed thompson,blaine reed, and a few others give thier opinion on what it might be.No one knows.It has a very rich dark brown matrix.Very few or none at all with chondrules.High in metal, but it pulls very weakly even with a strong magnet.You can be the lucky winner of this mystery stone and you can try and get it classified.It measures 6.5 cm x 5.2 cm x 3.8 cm.I will start the bidding at $1.00. Good luck." Well, I bidded and won the item. Today it arrived. I had a closer look at it, took some photographs and am looking for your expertise now. Let me describe the tactile impressions: The item is feels pretty cold when you hold it, and it has about the right weight for a meteorite of this size. However: the outside feels quite "soft", more like an ordinary stone than a meteorite, like a pebble that has been in the water. There is indeed a lot of metal visible from the outside, but on the cut surface, the deeper you go inside, the less metal you find. A close examination with a 10x magnification showed no chondrules at all, at least for me. Here are three photos of the object (they are quite large in order to reveal more details). I have brightened the photos and added some contrast and some mild sharpening, but I'd say they are true to the visual appearance of the object: http://metcollector.rendelius.com/mystery1.jpg http://metcollector.rendelius.com/mystery2.jpg http://metcollector.rendelius.com/mystery3.jpg So - what's your impression? Is it a meteorite at all? What is it? Bernhard
Re: [meteorite-list] RE: Survival after a large impact event (Delete if you d...
There is certainly several months of food supply probably at least two years out there. Everything doesn't come out of a can, the fields wouldn't be totally destroyed worldwide. I would guess there would be one 'growing season' of food out there. presumably there would be enough time to harvest crops that are in the feild right now. It might mean golf ball sized idaho potatoes and green tomatoes, but if it puts food in the belly, thats the important thing. Marshall law in plently of places would be fine, it is not too unlike many countries today, and a spirit of cooperation under these circumstances wiould certainly win out in my vision, since going against it would be bad for your health Maybe I'm a bit of a cynic, but I would think one's own desire for self preservation would quickly win out over spirit of cooperation. Oh for the thinking out of the box ... if you don't think enough food production facilities could be set up in a few months time, I disagree there. what kind of food preperation facilities are we talking about? there are millions upon millions of acres of land dedicated to produce food. lets look at some numbers assuming we fed the people with rice, as it is one of the most effective crops to feed large populations with. you can get about 5,500 lbs of rice per acre per year. a 288g serving of long grain white rice will provide 1000 calories a day. a diet for most people, but enough to live on... That means 1 person needs 193 lbs of rice a year, or 1 acre would provide sustinance for about 29 people. To use convinient numbers, lets say the us has 300 million people. thats 10 million acres of rice production that would be needed to feed all our citizens. now consider the tasks involved in seting up such an enclosed growing environment. In the event of a large impact, we would need to build an enclosure that protects food crops from the environment, and provides an alternate source of energy to the crops. rice isnt going to grow if the sun is blacked out for 1000 years because of a comet induced nuclear winter. How in the world could we enclose 10 million acres in anywhere from a few months, to maybe 2 years (to use IMHO your overly generous guestimate)? to put that number in perspective, 10 million acres is 15625 square miles, or a square 125 miles on a side. Next consider the energy requirement of the plants. The sun provides 1kw/square meter at the surface of the earth. lets assume rice will live with a quarter of that light level if illuminated for 1/2 a day (ie a perpetually overcast day). We would need about 182.5 megawatt days to power artificial lighting for 1 acre of rice feild. 1825 trillion watt days would power enough feild area to feed the us. thats 48 trillion kWh per year. To put that into perspective, the total us power generation capibility is about 4 trillion kWh/year with about 20% of it comming from nuclear. so the total power output of the US, the worlds most industrialized nation, is only enough to power the lights above feilds that would feed less than 10% of it's population. So IF we can build indoor growing areas of 10 million acres in 2 years, and IF we can manufacture enough 100% efficent 'grow lights' (we cant) we still need 50x the nuclear power generation capacity that we currently have. I personally dont see us as being able to build 5000 new nuke plants in 2 years, even if we ignroe all saftey standards. Now obviously there are ways we can offset this food requierment, ie overfish the oceans, overhunt while game is still abundant, ect, but this would buy us years maybe. Certianly there may be out of the box solutions to the problem of feeding our population that i havent looked into here, but I think it's safe to say that simply building indoor foodstuffs growing capabilities isnt going to be one of them, at least not for the majority of people. And remeber we are tlaking about the capibilities of the united states, the most industrialized nation out there... think about what will happen in india, africa and china. BILLIONS of people would probably die in this sort of event. But if I am wrong there, and all this really doesn't work as it would have to, heating massive plankton and diatom water tanks could be built virtually overnight and heated. Presto: instant flavored whale food for distribution. this is probably a better solution, as with rice, energy efficency is lost by nature of the fact that only a small portion of the rice biomass is eadible. if we could overcome the energy efficency problems associated with indoor growing by using plankton, then that could concievably be a usefull aproach Tastes better than dog food for sure. No doubt withing a week it could be turned into a product that farm animals like to. Maybe not cows, so get used to rabbits and chickens. Rabbits reproduce quickly, we are told... Probably the flavored diatom-plankton wouldn't taste any different from tofu and
Re: [meteorite-list] RE: Survival after a large impact event (Delete if you d...
En un mensaje con fecha 02/26/2004 4:45:49 PM Mexico Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] escribe: This brings us right back to square one. why feed a cow for a year, the amount of plankton required to keep 10 people alive, just so you can get 1 man-year worth of t bones? such a long term survivial of the species effort would have to be concerned with the overall energy efficency of the food source.. at least initially till more energy sources could be brought online. OK, in this post asteroid impact world, at least I got you to agree that a little thinking out of the box has a decent shot at this. Right now I'd like to see how feasible the plankton model I like for survival is, but I still have half a day of work ahead ... so I will, but later. I have no reason to doubt your estimates of the energy requirements for a reasonable sized population, and we certainly wouldn't have rice production up over night, if rice were the post impact food of choice so I'll happily agree you've made a stong case there. It comes down to the fact that there is vast storages of plants, animals, sugars, fertilizers and other organic material and nutrients in the world. That doesn't include all the trees and creatures, and fungi that grow in the dark on detritus (including human poop). So we'd all get a drastic change in lifestyle. Everyone would have their brewer's yeast barrel and filter in the house, as well as blue green algae, and light bulbs. Energy source is no problem at all for focused food production ... it is the distribution that would need to be immediately guaranteed. Some further ideas, just a sampling of the thousands that would come out of a creative world trying to survive: Fungi Brewer's Yeast Photosynthetic algae including diatoms in another home garbage can brewsky. Genetically engineered diatom algae not requiring light currently off the shelf available. Capture of the vast cellulose from trees before decomposition and treatment to produce carbohydrates and sugars digestible - not to hard to do, even if by simply using as food for yeast or bacteria that are edible and eat the wood. canabilism on deaths by natural causes - hmmm if half of the world dies the bodies could be collected and processed. And what of all the wildlife. Not a pretty picture at all, but perfectly logical like the Donners found out. Synthetic foods with high energy cost Those who didn't adapt would probably not make it. So if worms are the diet of the day, you like worms:) Do I think the nuclear capabilities of the US (for example) alone could fuel this for half of the world that makes it - yes. Would people's instinct for survival break down the civilized world? Hardly with nuclear and electric being controlled by the government and a death penalty for offenders and a world united to pull through. too optimistic? ... not really, I don't think, it's not the script of an action packed movie to sell tickets so we don't need to force a Mad Max out on it (great movie with Mel), just "Little House on the Prarie"- it worked for them. Saludos. Doug
[meteorite-list] Mars Exploration Rovers Update - February 26, 2004
http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/mer2004/daily/2-26-04.cfm Spirit Status for sol 53 Eyeing Martian Dust Devils posted Feb. 26, 3:15 pm PST On sol 53, which ends at 4:34 p.m. PST on February 26, Spirit woke up to the 70s ballad Dust in the Wind by Kansas, with the anticipation of possibly capturing dust devils spinning across the martian surface. The rear hazard avoidance camera was commanded to roll tape from 12:00 to 12:30 local solar time to record these so-called mini-tornadoes. The behavior of dust devils helps scientists track the transfer of dust on the red planet. A final, .85-meter (about 2.8 feet) drive brought Spirit to its exact target at the Middle Ground site. The rover also conducted an examination, using its microscopic imager and alpha particle X-ray spectrometer, of the magnet arrays that are collecting airborne dust. In the coming sols Spirit will inspect the soil at its current position with the tools on its arm. Following that, the plans call for the rover to approach the rock called Humphrey. After a thorough assessment of Humphrey, the rock abrasion tool will be used to brush and then grind. Opportunity Status for sol 32 New Communications Plan posted Feb. 26, 11:15 am PST On sol 32, which ended at 4:15 a.m. Thursday, February 26, Opportunity awoke to Let It Be by the Beatles. Opportunity's day was focused on getting a second Moessbauer instrument measurement of the hole created by the rock abrasion tool at the McKittrick rock site. The Moessbauer can detect spectral signatures of different iron-bearing minerals. The data from the first Moessbauer spectrum of McKittrick was received on Earth Wednesday afternoon. The alpha proton X-ray spectrometer data from yestersol at this target was retransmitted to Earth again Wednesday to get missing packets of data that were not received during the first data communications relay. Opportunity also snapped pictures of the rock areas named Maya and Jericho with the panoramic camera and took miniature thermal emission spectrometer measurements of the sky and El Capitan throughout the sol. The amount of power Opportunity is able to generate continues to dwindle due to the decreasing amount of sunlight (energy) reaching the solar panels during the martian seasonal transition to winter. Because of this, the engineers are adjusting the rover's daily communications activities. To minimize power use for communications sessions, engineers began a new receive only morning direct-from-earth communication relay. This lower-power communication mode was successful. Opportunity will continue with this approach to maximize the available power for driving and science activities as Mars moves farther away from Earth and the Sun in its elliptical orbit. In conjunction with the morning communications session change, engineers added a second afternoon Mars Odyssey orbiter relay pass, which uses less power in transmitting data volume than direct-to-Earth communication. This additional Odyssey pass more than compensated for the elimination of the morning direct-to-Earth downlink. Engineers also continue to effectively use rover naps throughout the day to maximize energy savings. The plan for sol 33, which ends at 4:55 a.m. Friday, February 27, is to take a very short trip (10 to 20 centimeters or 4 to 8 inches) towards the next rock abrasion tool target site, Guadalupe. __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] comments from Bernd
Hi all, Bernd sent me this commentary today and I asked his permission to post it to the list: Today E. Olson posted some- thing about blueish hibonite crystals in Terry Boswell's CV3's and so I sent a private mail to Eric informing him that blueish hibonite (CaAl12O19) components are commonly found in CM2's but that they are rare in the Allende CV3 chondrite. I also added that, in CM chondrites like Murchison, Ti-bearing hibonite is blue, while it is tan or orange in Allende. The color difference is due to the presence of trivalent titanium (Ti3+) in blue hibonite whereas orange hibonite does not contain Ti3+. So if Terry's CV3s really contain b l u e hibonites, this would be a rare occurrence - Vigarano being the only exception. PS: Bernd is considering returning to the list. He left in protest of continual negative postings. If we want him back - especially for good, we will have to abandon past practices of attacking one another on the list. Best wishes, Michael -- When Jesus said Love your enemies I think he probably meant don't kill them. Anonymous -- For perspective, try THIS: http://micro.magnet.fsu.edu/primer/java/scienceopticsu/powersof10/index.html -- cool message fro Ben Jerry: www.TrueMajority.org/oreo -- AMAZING photos of Aurora Borealis, etc. http://faculty.rmwc.edu/tmichalik/atmosphere.htm -- Hubble space telescope - AMAZING photos!: http://wires.news.com.au/special/mm/030811-hubble.htm -- http://www.costofwar.com/ -- SUPPORT OUR TROUPS: http://www.takebackthemedia.com/onearmy.html -- Worth Seeing: Earth at night from satellite: http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/image/0011/earthlights_dmsp_big.jpg -- - Interactive Lady Liberty: http://doody36.home.attbi.com/liberty.htm -- Earth - variety of choices: http://www.fourmilab.ch/earthview/vplanet.html -- Michael Blood Meteorites: http://www.michaelbloodmeteorites.com/ __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] comments from Bernd
But...where are the references We miss you Bernd. Rob Wesel -- We are the music makers... and we are the dreamers of the dreams. Willy Wonka, 1971 - Original Message - From: Michael L Blood [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Meteorite-list Meteoritecentral [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2004 5:33 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] comments from Bernd Hi all, Bernd sent me this commentary today and I asked his permission to post it to the list: Today E. Olson posted some- thing about blueish hibonite crystals in Terry Boswell's CV3's and so I sent a private mail to Eric informing him that blueish hibonite (CaAl12O19) components are commonly found in CM2's but that they are rare in the Allende CV3 chondrite. I also added that, in CM chondrites like Murchison, Ti-bearing hibonite is blue, while it is tan or orange in Allende. The color difference is due to the presence of trivalent titanium (Ti3+) in blue hibonite whereas orange hibonite does not contain Ti3+. So if Terry's CV3s really contain b l u e hibonites, this would be a rare occurrence - Vigarano being the only exception. PS: Bernd is considering returning to the list. He left in protest of continual negative postings. If we want him back - especially for good, we will have to abandon past practices of attacking one another on the list. Best wishes, Michael -- When Jesus said Love your enemies I think he probably meant don't kill them. Anonymous -- For perspective, try THIS: http://micro.magnet.fsu.edu/primer/java/scienceopticsu/powersof10/index.html -- cool message fro Ben Jerry: www.TrueMajority.org/oreo -- AMAZING photos of Aurora Borealis, etc. http://faculty.rmwc.edu/tmichalik/atmosphere.htm -- Hubble space telescope - AMAZING photos!: http://wires.news.com.au/special/mm/030811-hubble.htm -- http://www.costofwar.com/ -- SUPPORT OUR TROUPS: http://www.takebackthemedia.com/onearmy.html -- Worth Seeing: Earth at night from satellite: http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/image/0011/earthlights_dmsp_big.jpg -- - Interactive Lady Liberty: http://doody36.home.attbi.com/liberty.htm -- Earth - variety of choices: http://www.fourmilab.ch/earthview/vplanet.html -- Michael Blood Meteorites: http://www.michaelbloodmeteorites.com/ __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] OT; Italian mafia and the mail?
I sent a package to Belgium and it took almost 2 months to get to the buyer. You should have seen all the threats and nasty- grams I got from that one!! And this was the second one I sent. Rosie - Original Message - From: Tom aka James Knudson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2004 3:29 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] OT; Italian mafia and the mail? Hello List, I know there is a great problem with the mail in Italy with the Italian mafia and all, but how long do I wait? I had an Italian winner of one of my auctions who had a feedback rating of 9, but one was a negative for non paying bidder. This auction ended the 2/11 and on 2/14 he said he was sending payment. Today being the 26th, I am wondering if the Italian mafia got a hold of his mail, the mails slow from Italy, or if the buyer is pulling a second non paying bidder game? How long do you wait for mail to arrive from over seas? It is so hard to communicate with him due to our language differences. Thanks, Tom peregrineflier IMCA #6168 __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] OT; Italian mafia and the mail?
In a message dated 2/26/2004 7:41:27 PM Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I sent a package to Belgium and it took almost 2 months to get to the buyer. You should have seen all the threats and nasty- grams I got from that one!! And this was the second one I sent. Rosie I send packages to France, Germany, Austria, Switzerland very often. I always send them by Global Priority Mail and they take an average of one week to get there. And no problem (Except for the one that made a detour thru Australia before going to Austria! Not everybody knows the difference, apparently!!! ) :-) Anne M. Black www. IMPACTIKA.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] IMCA #2356
[meteorite-list] Leucifer's Hammer
Dear List, I ordered my copy of Lucifer's Hammer at B.Dalton book store today, price $5.70 + tax. Thought you'd all like to know, I will offer a concise short book review after I read it if the list is dead. Best, DAve Freeman Ebay user ID mjwy __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Chat Room Open
Hello Everybody, Please visit my chatroom if desired. http://www.meteoritearticles.com/chatroom.htmlMark Bostick www.meteoritearticles.com
[meteorite-list] Fireball Report Feb. 25, 2004, Fort Collins, CO (fwd)
--- Forward Message --- Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 14:05:32 + From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: (meteorobs) Fireball Report February 25, 2004, Seen from downtown Denver, Colorado (fwd) --- Forwarded Message: - From:NAMN Fireball Reports [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Fireball Report February 25, 2004, Seen from downtown Denver, Colorado Date:Wed, 25 Feb 2004 23:11:30 -0500 (EST) - Your Name? Guy Clinger Your Town/State/Country? Denver/Colorado/USA Date and Time? February 25, 2004 What compass direction did the fireball appear from? ssw What compass direction did the fireball DISAPPEAR from? sw How long, in seconds, were you able to see it in the sky? 2 How many degrees off the horizon was it when it APPEARED? (As a reference, a closed fist held at arm's length is approximately 10 degrees.) 40 How many degrees off the horizon was it when it DISAPPEARED? 35 How bright did it appear? Like a star, Venus, the Moon, or the setting Sun? setting Sun Did it have any color(s)? yellow/orange Did it appear to fall apart as it went by? What did that look like? The main fireball remained intact, but it had a trail of sparks and smoke Did it leave a persistent streak in the sky after it was gone? How long did that last? Yes, several seconds. Smoke trail lasted at least 5 minutes. How fast did it move? Use a 1 to 5 scale, 1 being VERY slow, and 5 being extremely quick. 2 Did you hear a sound? If yes, what was the time delay from sighting to sound? No What is the closest Town/State to where you saw the fireball? Seen from downtown Denver, Colorado Please put any additional remarks, sketches, drawings, etc. below: I saw the fireball only for a second or two as it passed behind/between two skyscrapers as I was walking south on Broadway between 18th and 17th North at about 6:30 pm MST, just after dusk but before deep darkness. The fireball was south-southwest of me, moving toward the west, disappeared from view behind a building about soutwest from me, not too high in the sky. It moved slowly enough to be surprising to me. It appeared brighter than the moon, seemed about half the size of a full moon, and had a trail of sparks 4-6 times the diameter of the fireball. I asked a man walking next to me if he had seen it and he had, he seemed to have seen it longer than me and said that the front looked larger than the rear. It had a bright trail of sparks, mainly yellow with a touch of orange, trail seemed to linger a bit even after the main spark trail had passed. I clearly saw a smoke trail lingering in its path for the next 5 minutes until I entered a building. No sound. -- Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 21:14:44 + From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: (meteorobs) Fireball Report Feb. 25, 2004, Fort Collins, CO (fwd) - Forwarded Message: -- From:NAMN Fireball Reports [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Fireball Report Feb. 25, 2004, Fort Collins, CO Date:Thu, 26 Feb 2004 11:44:40 -0500 (EST) - Your Name? Jeff Biegert Your Town/State/Country? Fort Collins, CO, USA Date and Time? Feb. 25, 2004 What compass direction did the fireball appear from? South What compass direction did the fireball DISAPPEAR from? Southwest How long, in seconds, were you able to see it in the sky? 2.5 How many degrees off the horizon was it when it APPEARED? (As a reference, a closed fist held at arm's length is approximately 10 degrees.) 35 How many degrees off the horizon was it when it DISAPPEARED? 10 How bright did it appear? Like a star, Venus, the Moon, or the setting Sun? brighter then the moon Did it have any color(s)? red, yellow, blue, green Did it appear to fall apart as it went by? What did that look like? trail with spots, pieces breaking off Did it leave a persistent streak in the sky after it was gone? How long did that last? no How fast did it move? Use a 1 to 5 scale, 1 being VERY slow, and 5 being extremely quick. 2 Did you hear a sound? If yes, what was the time delay from sighting to sound? crackling, no delay What is the closest Town/State to where you saw the fireball? Fort Collins, CO Please put any additional remarks, sketches, drawings, etc. below: The event started due south at approx. 35 degrees elevation and traveled slowly south / southwest, below the moon and Venus. From my location, it looked as if it could have arrived in Rocky mountain National Park. It's magnitude seemed almost 2 times that of the crescent moon. The head of the meteor was red with some yellow, green and blue tailing behind along with a spotted train. The size is estimated at about 1/8 to 1/4 diameter of the moon, definitely the largest and brightest I have ever seen. The archive and Web site for our list is at http://www.meteorobs.org To stop getting all email from the 'meteorobs' lists, use
[meteorite-list] Mars Sunset Clip Tells Dusty Tale
MEDIA RELATIONS OFFICE JET PROPULSION LABORATORY CALIFORNIA INSTITUTE OF TECHNOLOGY NATIONAL AERONAUTICS AND SPACE ADMINISTRATION PASADENA, CALIFORNIA 91109. TELEPHONE (818) 354-5011 http://www.jpl.nasa.gov Guy Webster (818) 354-5011 Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif. Donald Savage (202) 358-1547 NASA Headquarters, Washington, D.C. NEWS RELEASE: 2004-070 February 26, 2004 Mars Sunset Clip Tells Dusty Tale Dust gradually obscures the Sun during a blue-sky martian sunset seen in a sequence of newly processed frames from NASA's Mars Exploration Rover Opportunity. It's inspirational and beautiful, but there's good science in there, too, said Dr. Jim Bell of Cornell University, Ithaca, N.Y., lead scientist for the panoramic cameras on Opportunity and its twin, Spirit. The amount of dust indicated by Opportunity's observations of the Sun is about twice as much as NASA's Mars Pathfinder lander saw in 1997 from another site on Mars. The sunset clip uses several of the more than 11,000 raw images that have been received so far from the 18 cameras on the two Mars Exploration Rovers and publicly posted at http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov . During a briefing today at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif., Bell showed some pictures that combine information from multiple raw frames. A patch of ground about half the area of a coffee table, imaged with the range of filters available on Opportunity's panoramic camera, has soil particles with a wide assortment of hues -- more spectral color diversity than we've seen in almost any other data set on Mars, Bell said. Opportunity is partway through several days of detailed observations and composition measurements at a portion of the rock outcrop in the crater where it landed last month. It used its rock abrasion tool this week for the first time, exposing a fresh rock surface for examination. That surface will be studied with its alpha particle X-ray spectrometer for identifying chemical elements and with its Moessbauer spectrometer for identifying iron-bearing minerals. With that rock-grinding session, all the tools have now been used on both rovers. Dr. Ray Arvidson of Washington University, St. Louis, deputy principal investigator for the rovers' science work, predicted that in two weeks or so, Opportunity will finish observations in its landing-site crater and be ready to move out to the surrounding flatland. At about that same time, Spirit may reach the rim of a larger crater nicknamed Bonneville and send back pictures of what's inside. We'll both be at the rims of craters, he said of the two rovers' science teams, one thinking about going in and the other thinking about going out onto the plain. Not counting occasional backup moves, Spirit has driven 171 meters (561 feet) from its lander. It has about half that distance still to go before reaching the crater rim. The terrain ahead looks different than what's behind, however. It's rockier, but we're after rocks, Arvidson said. Spirit can traverse the rockier type of ground in front of it, said Spirit Mission Manager Jennifer Harris of JPL. As it approached the edge of a small depression in the ground earlier this week, the rover identified the slope as a potential hazard, and did the right thing by stopping and seeking an alternate route, she said. However, engineers are also planning to transmit new software to both rovers in a few weeks to improve onboard navigation capabilities. We want to be more robust for the terrain we're seeing, Trosper said. The software revisions will also allow engineers to turn off a heater in Opportunity's arm, which has been wasting some power by going on during cold hours even when not needed. As it heads toward Bonneville to look for older rocks from beneath the region's current surface layer, Spirit is stopping frequently to examine soil and rocks along the way. Observations with its microscope at one wavy patch of windblown soil allowed scientists to study how martian winds affect the landscape. Coarser grains are concentrated on the crests, with finer grains more dominant in the troughs, a characteristic of ripples rather than of dunes, which are shaped by stronger winds. This gives us a better understanding of the current erosion process due to winds on Mars, said Shane Thompson, a science team collaborator from Arizona State University, Tempe. The rovers' main task is to explore their landing sites for evidence in the rocks and soil about whether the sites' past environments were ever watery and possibly suitable for sustaining life. JPL, a division of the California Institute of Technology in Pasadena, manages the Mars Exploration Rover project for NASA's Office of Space Science, Washington, D.C. Images and additional information about the project are available from JPL at http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov and from Cornell University at http://athena.cornell.edu/ . -end-
Re: [meteorite-list] Help me solve a mystery - NWA mystery
Bernhard, Adam and others: I saw this stone, and a hundred or more like it in Edwin Thompson's room at the Inn Suites. To me they looked like water worn stones also, most were noticeably paramagnetic with the exception of some that were less...like the one you got from Steve. I saw this particular stone in Tucson (Steve showed me) and I think that he got from ET also. My impression was it was a water worn LL or L6. Especially after I saw the entire batch in a tray in Edwin's room. I myself went through these oddly shaped stones and found a few that had nice chondrules. I bought one that was also oddly shaped with folds, etc. and cut it, and sure enough it has chondrules...but it is more like a H4 (strongly paramagnetic). Could regular rocks be mixed in ET's group that included real meteorites like the one I got, possibly...or these were all found in an area that had conditions that created such oddly shaped meteorites. They are strange looking...but is yours(Steve's) an achondrite???...I don't think so, John Hi, app. 2 weeks ago, Steve Arnold (Illinois) sold a mystery NWA on ebay. This is the text that came with the auction (as often with Steve, no pic): Up here for auction is a mystery.This is a 134.9 gram whole stone that has been cut by AL LANG.It is a unclassified NWA mystery stone.I had bob haag,richard norton,al lang,ed thompson,blaine reed, and a few others give thier opinion on what it might be.No one knows.It has a very rich dark brown matrix.Very few or none at all with chondrules.High in metal, but it pulls very weakly even with a strong magnet.You can be the lucky winner of this mystery stone and you can try and get it classified.It measures 6.5 cm x 5.2 cm x 3.8 cm.I will start the bidding at $1.00. Good luck. Well, I bidded and won the item. Today it arrived. I had a closer look at it, took some photographs and am looking for your expertise now. Let me describe the tactile impressions: The item is feels pretty cold when you hold it, and it has about the right weight for a meteorite of this size. However: the outside feels quite soft, more like an ordinary stone than a meteorite, like a pebble that has been in the water. There is indeed a lot of metal visible from the outside, but on the cut surface, the deeper you go inside, the less metal you find. A close examination with a 10x magnification showed no chondrules at all, at least for me. Here are three photos of the object (they are quite large in order to reveal more details). I have brightened the photos and added some contrast and some mild sharpening, but I'd say they are true to the visual appearance of the object: http://metcollector.rendelius.com/mystery1.jpg http://metcollector.rendelius.com/mystery2.jpg http://metcollector.rendelius.com/mystery3.jpg So - what's your impression? Is it a meteorite at all? What is it? Bernhard Title: Nachricht Hi, app. 2 weeks ago, Steve Arnold (Illinois) sold a "mystery NWA" on ebay. This is the text that came with the auction (as often with Steve, no pic): "Up here for auction is a mystery.This is a 134.9 gram whole stone that has been cut by AL LANG.It is a unclassified NWA mystery stone.I had bob haag,richard norton,al lang,ed thompson,blaine reed, and a few others give thier opinion on what it might be.No one knows.It has a very rich dark brown matrix.Very few or none at all with chondrules.High in metal, but it pulls very weakly even with a strong magnet.You can be the lucky winner of this mystery stone and you can try and get it classified.It measures 6.5 cm x 5.2 cm x 3.8 cm.I will start the bidding at $1.00. Good luck." Well, I bidded and won the item. Today it arrived. I had a closer look at it, took some photographs and am looking for your expertise now. Let me describe the tactile impressions: The item is feels pretty cold when you hold it, and it has about the right weight for a meteorite of this size. However: the outside feels quite "soft", more like an ordinary stone than a meteorite, like a pebble that has been in the water. There is indeed a lot of metal visible from the outside, but on the cut surface, the deeper you go inside, the less metal you find. A close examination with a 10x magnification showed no chondrules at all, at least for me. Here are three photos of the object (they are quite large in order to reveal more details). I have brightened the photos and added some contrast and some mild sharpening, but I'd say they are true to the visual appearance of the object: http://metcollector.rendelius.com/mystery1.jpg http://metcollector.rendelius.com/mystery2.jpg http://metcollector.rendelius.com/mystery3.jpg So - what's your impression? Is it a meteorite at all? What is it? Bernhard
[meteorite-list] OT; Italian mafia and the mail?
Hello List, I know there is a great problem with the mail in Italy with the Italian mafia and all, but how long do I wait? I had an Italian winner of one of my auctions who had a feedback rating of 9, but one was a negative for non paying bidder. This auction ended the 2/11 and on 2/14 he said he was sending payment. Today being the 26th, I am wondering if the Italian mafia got a hold of his mail, the mails slow from Italy, or if the buyer is pulling a second non paying bidder game? How long do you wait for mail to arrive from over seas? It is so hard to communicate with him due to our language differences. Thanks, Tom peregrineflier IMCA #6168 __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Survival after a large impact event (Delete if you don`t wish to know)
Worrying about surviving an asteroid impact? Maybe this is an even bigger worry, especially for our European friends by the sounds of this secret Pentagon report. For what it's worth: http://www.guardian.co.uk/climatechange/story/0,12374,1153530,00.html Regards, Charlie __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Fredrickburg
Dave Who? Dave F. Basilicofresco wrote: At 13.20 26/02/2004 -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Does anyone know what the classification for Fredrickburg is? Sure, Fredericksburg is an Hexahedrite IIAB. Found in Texas, TKW 30kg. bye, Dave __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: [meteorite-list] RE: Survival after a large impact event (Delete if you don`t wish to know)
I'd have to disagree from 2 standpoints: It's hard to imagine even the third world countries surviving and growing food when it's -30 degrees C, even if their survival skills where better on average than those in developed countries. eskimos, north canadians, and people in siberia, (as well as many other places) have been doing this for ages. surely SOME people will survice such an impact event Basically any society that can generate electricity can grow grops make heat for plants and people and provide protection, that's if civil war didn't break out before then! how much food generation capacity do we have in place that can be heated by artifical means almost immediatly (say by the next growing cycle)? if such an impact event were to happen tomorrow, we wouldnt have time to build 100 million acres of electrically heated greenhouses. sure technology would allow us to produce SOME food in just about any climate, but it certainly wouldnt be enough to support a large population. I'd venture to guess that it wouldnt even be enough to feed the farmers, electric grid workers, power plant engineers, fuel delivery service people, coal mine workers, and on down the line. I just dont think artificial environments would work in the macro sense. by the time we could ramp up production in such an environment large portions of the population would have died from starvation. now IF you happen to live in a community where there is a large farm, and there happens to be some natural gas wells, and conviniently there are local power generation capibilities, THEN maybe the citizens could work together to make such a possibility feasible, but it would be the exception, as opposed to the norm I'd think... It would be the quickest ones to adapt to a new climate that would survive, that is where technology comes into it's own! that I agree with 100% but I feal you are overestimating technologies ability to keep us alive... I'm sure it would allow a small number of people to survive such an event, but certainly not alot of the population.. _ Stay informed on Election 2004 and the race to Super Tuesday. http://special.msn.com/msn/election2004.armx __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] RE: Survival after a large impact event (Delete if you don`t wish to know)
Dirk, I take a different view. I think that post impact, you'd be supprised, whilst developed society would certainly breakdown, the advantages of technology shouldn't be underestimated, heating, lighting water purification, vaccination - all rely on technology the third world (on the whole) simply doesn't have. It's hard to imagine even the third world countries surviving and growing food when it's -30 degrees C, even if their survival skills where better on average than those in developed countries. Basically any society that can generate electricity can grow grops make heat for plants and people and provide protection, that's if civil war didn't break out before then! It would be the quickest ones to adapt to a new climate that would survive, that is where technology comes into it's own! Mark -Original Message- From: drtanuki [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 26 February 2004 14:42 To: mark ford; meteorite-list Subject: Survival after a large impact event (Delete if you don`t wish to know) Dear List Members, Survival of such event for most of the civilized world will suddenly become impossible. Imagine no food, water, heat, communications, transportation, and etc. Only those in the so-called third world will have the best chance at survival. The average person in most countries does not have the ability to grow food, use tools or make shelter, let alone survive the shock and awe (I hate to use the words of tyrants.) of such a global event. Suddenly most of the world will be in the dark, cold and starving. Suddenly the world with backward and uneducated lifestyles will have a better advantage to survive than the elite of the world. Peoples in sparsely populated areas and living as hunter-gatherers will have the highest probability of survival followed by low technology agriculturalists. Both upper northern latitudes and lower southern latitudes will be thrown into deep freeze. Acid rain and dust will rain for months. Such a happy future to be a dinosaur. Man will finally be humbled; but some life will continue certainly different as we know it now. NO GOVERNMENT in its right mind would give advance warning even if scientists do detect the object in time. So far, our best science is not even near early detection and even if it were there would be no plus gain. Modern technology will not be the savior of mankind that it appears, nor will capitalism or any conventional system; it will be mans' downfall. Sorry for the burden of knowing for those that didn`t want to know. I will take my meditation now. Sincerely, Dirk RossJapan Do you Yahoo!? Get better spam protection with Yahoo! Mail __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Bernd Pauli Email
Many TKS to all fo you that helped me or who were ready to do it. Bernd has so many friends ! I got the contact with him. Best Reagrds Michel FRANCO Caillou Noir www.caillou-noir.com BP 16, 100 Chemin des Campènes 74400 Les Praz de Chamonix FRANCE __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] CV3 mania!
Hi John and List, This is one fine looking meteorite!! Great image! I bet you can't stop looking at it! :-) Enjoy Moni From: mary kashuba [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Howard Wu [EMAIL PROTECTED],[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] CV3 mania! Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 20:56:29 -0800 Howard and List, I can't help clear any of it up, but here is a picture of a slice of some of this great xxx material I picked up in Tucson. http://www.johnkashuba.com/images/NWA%20xxx%20CV3xb.jpg John Kashuba Ontario, California - Original Message - From: Howard Wu To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2004 8:11 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] CV3 mania! Hi List Speaking of CV3's, there seems to be a new CV3 offering everyother day this week. All with gorgiously wild chondrites and inclusions of all descriptions and different xxx or none at all. I can't keep up with them all. Tired of more surprises. What is going on? Surely did one big fall hit last year and there now just trickling in or are these many falls that all have cool CAI's, etc. Will somebody who know what going on behind the scene sort this one out for us poor buyers. Howard Wu Adam Hupe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear List Members, We would like to draw your attention to a new CV3, NWA 3118. This stunning meteorite has a lot going for it including multi-colored chondrules, Huge CAIs and odd clasts. We loaded several inexpensive samples on ebay so that collectors can acquire some of this neat meteorite at near wholesale prices, some as low as $5.01 a gram for large specimens. Here are a few examples: Museum Quality with 3D chondrule: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=2228530808category=3239 Giant 18mm Chondrule: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemcategory=3239item=2228534822 Do not forget to check out the NWA 1836, monomict cumulate eucrite and over a hundred other auctions we are running this week, as well. To see all of our auctions click on the link below: http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/meteoritelab/ Thank you for looking and if you are bidding, good luck. Kind Regards, Adam and Greg Hupe The Hupe Collection IMCA 2185 __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly...Ping your friends today! Download Messenger Now _ Store more e-mails with MSN Hotmail Extra Storage 4 plans to choose from! http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200362ave/direct/01/ __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] CV3 mania! FYI
Dear list, Yes a new CV3 mania. With my team we have recovered too 2 different CV3 (one is listed on my website www.caillou-noir.com local name Tioulaoualene, analyzed by Jambon in LPMC Jussieu, publication pending ) and another one, 1954 g in many pieces found 2003. (Local name Ain Ouinet, Analyse at Open University, in process) I know that some people of my field party also extract some of what they find for me and send it through their caravan networks to Algeria and then Morocco. ( Probably for funding the Pelisson-Al Qaida coalition ;-) !!!) Has anyone an idea of where these new CV3 that make passionate debates on this list are supposed to come from, or said to come from. I am always impressed by dealers creativity ) Best regards. Michel - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Howard Wu [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2004 6:50 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] CV3 mania! Speaking of CV3's, there seems to be a new CV3 offering every other day this week.Will somebody who know what going on behind the scene sort this one out for us poor buyers. Hello Howard and list. Talking to the guy who is classifying a lot of things right now there were 3 new CV3s in Tucson this year. One was a nice gray with blueish hibbonite (sp?) crystals in it. Terry Boswell had some in his room. I am not sure of the differences in the other two. I sent some of my material off to be classified, if it was different, or to find out it was the same as something already being classiffied. Either way is fine I just want to know what to call it. I would not be surprised if the pieces Adam Hupe just put on eBay are the same material. That thin 10.3 gram piece with the chondrule sticking out both sides is so cool. No matter what the NWA number(s) finally wind up on it, it is great looking material. Also some of those large chondrules are really large spherical CAIs. -- Eric Olson ELKK Meteorites http://www.star-bits.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] comments from Bernd (blue hibonite)
Hello Michael, Eric, Terry... (Bernd ?) Just a comment about the Ti3+-containing blue hibonite. Ti3+ is paramagnetic and currently gives a characteristic EPR (Electron Paramagnetic Resonance) signal, especially if it is diluted as solid solution in another crystalline phase such as hibonite (I suppose Ti3+ partly replaces Al3+ in the hibonite structure). Ti3+ is indeed very rarely stabilized on Earth where it should readily oxidize to Ti4+, found in most of the minerals (Ti4+ is diamagnetic and thus not active in EPR). Conversely, Ti3+ is very likely to occur in space or on asteroids that do not have an oxidative atmosphere (vacuum is a reducing medium). This being, running an EPR spectrum could perhaps help definitely identifying the presence of blue hibonite in Terry's CV3's, provided Ti3+ did not totally oxidize to Ti4+ during the terrestrial life of the meteorite (possibly it should not if we deal with a real solid solution). To run such a spectrum, a few mg of folid is quite enough, as ppm Ti3+ concentrations are enough for a signal to be recorded (the more diluted the system, the sharpest the signal). During my past research I used to run such spectra regularly and could get quite familiar in interpreting Ti3+ EPR signals. Presently, I don't have any EPR equipment in my new lab but if some investigation is needed, I can contact some friend scientist involved in EPR, ask him to run some spectra on your powder and this perhaps would help telling more about these blue inclusions in the CV3. Just a suggestion. Tell me if there is interest. Best wishes, Zelimir At 17:33 26/02/04 -0800, you wrote: Hi all, Bernd sent me this commentary today and I asked his permission to post it to the list: Today E. Olson posted some- thing about blueish hibonite crystals in Terry Boswell's CV3's and so I sent a private mail to Eric informing him that blueish hibonite (CaAl12O19) components are commonly found in CM2's but that they are rare in the Allende CV3 chondrite. I also added that, in CM chondrites like Murchison, Ti-bearing hibonite is blue, while it is tan or orange in Allende. The color difference is due to the presence of trivalent titanium (Ti3+) in blue hibonite whereas orange hibonite does not contain Ti3+. So if Terry's CV3s really contain b l u e hibonites, this would be a rare occurrence - Vigarano being the only exception. PS: Bernd is considering returning to the list. He left in protest of continual negative postings. If we want him back - especially for good, we will have to abandon past practices of attacking one another on the list. Best wishes, Michael ** Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Groupe Sécurité et Ecologie Chimiques (GSEC) - ENSCMu 3, rue A. Werner F-68093 MULHOUSE Cedex, FRANCE Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 FAX: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 e-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ** __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] comments from Bernd
Rob Wesel wrote: But...where are the references We miss you Bernd. I for one, promise to never utter the dreaded Italiano M_ word again. I promise. Dave (how many of us Daves are on this list? I bet we have the Mikes beat.) __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] OT; Italian mafia and the mail?
I use to send from (and receive in) Belgium and France to (from) USA, parcels containing geological samples (minerals, meteorites, impactites...) since more than 25 years. It never took more than about ONE week (in agreement to what said Anne). I use small parcels (less than 1 kg) as this is cheaper, but larger are as fast, just a little more expensive. I send simply by air mail, NEVER insured (this considerably slows down the delivery!) and (very important!) put on the green tag for customs: geological or rock samples (for meteorites, tektites, impactites..) or minearlogical samples (for crystallized minerals) for study (or, sometimes: as gift), with no commercial value . Parcels are never open, even if they are sent to my private home, not to my research lab. I reckon that from France or Belgium to...Italy, it may take sometimes (but not so often) longer... Zelimir At 21:50 26/02/04 EST, you wrote: In a message dated 2/26/2004 7:41:27 PM Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I sent a package to Belgium and it took almost 2 months to get to the buyer. You should have seen all the threats and nasty- grams I got from that one!! And this was the second one I sent. Rosie I send packages to France, Germany, Austria, Switzerland very often. I always send them by Global Priority Mail and they take an average of one week to get there. And no problem (Except for the one that made a detour thru Australia before going to Austria! Not everybody knows the difference, apparently!!! ) :-) Anne M. Black www. IMPACTIKA.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] IMCA #2356 HTMLFONT FACE=arial,helveticaFONT SIZE=2 PTSIZE=10In a message dated 2/26/2004 7:41:27 PM Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: BR BR BRBLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style=BORDER-LEFT: #ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5pxI sent a package to Belgium and it took almost 2 months to get to the buyer. BRYou should have seen all the threats and nasty- grams I got from that one!! BRAnd this was the second one I sent. BR BRRosie BR/FONTFONT COLOR=#00 BACK=#ff style=BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ff SIZE=3 PTSIZE=12 FAMILY=SANSSERIF FACE=Arial LANG=0/BLOCKQUOTE BR/FONTFONT COLOR=#00 BACK=#ff style=BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ff SIZE=2 PTSIZE=10 FAMILY=SANSSERIF FACE=Arial LANG=0 BRI send packages to France, Germany, Austria, Switzerland very often. BRI always send them by Global Priority Mail and they take an average of one week to get there. And no problem (Except for the one that made a detour thru Australia before going to Austria! nbsp;Not everybody knows the difference, apparently!!! ) nbsp;:-) BR BRAnne M. Black BRwww. IMPACTIKA.com BR[EMAIL PROTECTED] BRIMCA nbsp;#2356/FONT/HTML ** Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Groupe Sécurité et Ecologie Chimiques (GSEC) - ENSCMu 3, rue A. Werner F-68093 MULHOUSE Cedex, FRANCE Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 FAX: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 e-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ** __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
