date:20070329

http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/russia-hits-back-at-space-blunder-claim/2007/03/29/1174761621087.html

It was a meteorite, not a satellite, says Russia
Sydney Morning Herald
March 29, 2007 -

A Chilean jetliner approaching New Zealand came within 20 seconds of
being hit by blazing objects hurtling down to Earth, New Zealand
aviation officials say.

US space officials said today it was most likely a close encounter with
a disintegrating meteor, denying assertions from New Zealand officials
that the LAN Chile plane narrowly missed being blasted by Russian space
debris that was returning to Earth ahead of schedule.

While it is not uncommon for space junk to fall into the South Pacific,
it is very uncommon to have a plane in the middle of it, said Airways
New Zealand spokesman Ken Mitchell.

Mitchell, whose agency handles air traffic control in the region, told
New Zealand National Radio that the flaming objects were likely space
junk arriving 12 hours ahead of Russian projections.

The airline said in a brief communique that the pilot, who was not
identified, made visual contact with incandescent fragments several
kilometres away during the Monday night flight, and that the incident
was reported to authorities in Chile and New Zealand.

But Russia's Federal Space Agency issued a statement saying that its
cargo ship Progress M-58 had fallen back to Earth according to the
timetable it had warned aviation officials about previously.

In other words, the Russians say the fragments of Progress didn't plunge
into the Pacific Ocean east of New Zealand until about around 2330 GMT
Tuesday. The fiery near-hit with the jet was reported about 12 hours
earlier, a time when the cargo ship was still attached to the
international space station.

Unless someone has their times wrong, there appears to be no
correlation, said Nicholas Johnson, orbital debris chief scientist for
NASA's Johnson Space Centre.

Johnson said there are no other reports from the US Space Surveillance
Network of other re-entering space junk at the time, so the flaming
objects must have been fragments of a meteor.

The Lan Chile pilot flying from Santiago, Chile, notified air traffic
controllers at Auckland after spotting the flaming objects just five
nautical miles (9.2 kilometres) in front of and behind his Airbus 340.

That distance would not have given the pilots much room for manoeuvre,
according to World Airliner magazine editor Tony Dickson. You're
talking about 20 seconds and that's not a lot of separation, he told
National Radio Thursday.

About 50 meteoroids enter the Earth's atmosphere every day - mostly
burning up as they speed in - said Bill Ailor, director of the Centre
for Orbital and Reentry Debris Studies at the Aerospace Corporation of
El Segundo, Calif.

Those that survive to hit the earth are called meteorites.

By contrast, about 150 pieces of man-made space junk fall back to Earth
each year. About two-thirds of these are unplanned but still known and
monitored, and larger man-made space equipment, such as the Progress
resupply ship, have motors to guide them back to Earth, Ailor said.

If they are calculated to have more than a 1 in 10,000 chance of hitting
people, they are shifted to a safer path, he said, though small errors
can lead to large variations in where the debris hits.

For de-orbit, everything has to be lined up right ... and your math has
to be right and also your time has to be precise, Ailor said. There
are lots of places where you can have problems.

No one has ever been killed by man-made space junk, Ailor said, though
in 1997, an Oklahoma woman was grazed in the shoulder by falling material.

---

http://www.radioaustralia.net.au/news/stories/s1885157.htm

NASA queries space junk in NZ flight drama
ABC Radio Australia
March 29, 2007

The American space agency, NASA, has cast doubt on whether it was
Russian space junk that came close to hitting an Auckland-bound
plane over the Pacific Ocean.

But as New Zealand correspondent Peter Lewis reports, NASA says the
plane still had a near miss with something from out of this world.

The pilot of a Lan Chile airbus reported seeing flaming debris
falling within a few kilometres of his plane which was en route
from Santiago to Auckland on Tuesday night.

New Zealand civil aviation authorities were alerted and began
investigating whether an obsolete Russian satellite which was
due to crash back to earth yesterday had re-entered the atmosphere
early.

But NASA, which keeps close tabs on space junk, now says the
satellite splashed down on schedule and therefore the Chilean
plane more than likely had a close encounter with a meteorite.

Earlier, Ken Mitchell, of Airways New Zealand, believing the near
miss involved the satellite, described the incident as a serious
safety concern.

He said then, an explanation would be sought from Russia on why
the re-entry time was incorrect.

[meteorite-list] Mars Exploration Rover Update - March 23, 2007


http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/mission/status.html

SPIRIT UPDATE: Spirit Studies Rocks in Vicinity of Home Plate - sol
1141-1144, March 23, 2007:

Spirit remains healthy and spent much of the week studying a new rock
target on Mitcheltree Ridge called Torquas. Scientists are trying to
understand what relationship Mitcheltree Ridge has to Home Plate --
for example, whether it is an extension of Home Plate or an entirely
different rock layer, and whether it has similar composition or morphology.

Torquas is nicknamed after a dried-up seabed covered with moss in the
Barsoom science fiction saga by Edgar Rice Burroughs.

Sol-by-sol summary:

In addition to daily observations of atmospheric dust levels and surveys
of the sky and ground with the miniature thermal emission spectrometer,
Spirit conducted the following activities:

Sol 1141 (March 20, 2007): Spirit acquired panoramic camera images of
Torquas, nudged closer to the outcrop, took post-drive images with the
navigation camera, acquired images of the sky with the panoramic camera,
and watched for dust devils.

Sol 1142: This was a runout sol, or Martian day, meaning the rover
completed pre-loaded activities resulting from an only partially
successful uplink of new instructions. The uplink was only partially
successful because the rover's best-lock frequency was out of range.
Runout activities included monitoring atmospheric dust, measuring light
looking east and west, imaging the calibration target, and taking
thumbnail images of the sky.

Sol 1143: Spirit acquired a 360-degree panorama of images with the
navigation camera, stereo microscopic images of Torquas prior to
brushing the surface with the rock abrasion tool, and more stereo images
after brushing the rock. The rover placed the alpha-particle X-ray
spectrometer on the rock and then collected data using the instrument.

Sol 1144 (March 23, 2007): Spirit's first planned task was to acquire
panoramic images of Mitcheltree Ridge. Other planned activities included
studies of Torquas using the Moessbauer spectrometer, surveys of layered
outcrops known as Zanor, Banth, Okar, and Dor using the
miniature thermal emission spectrometer, and photometric measurements
using the panoramic camera.

Odometry:

As of sol 1142 (March 21, 2007), Spirit's total odometry was 7,046
meters (4.38 miles).


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[meteorite-list] Mars Exploration Rover Update - March 27, 2007


http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/mission/status.html#opportunity

OPPORTUNITY UPDATE: Opportunity Begins Imaging of 'Cape of Good Hope' -
sol 1118-1125, March 27, 2007:

Opportunity is healthy and making progress on the imaging campaign of
Cape St. Vincent.

On Sol 1116, Opportunity experienced a fault due to a known but rare
race condition in the flight software. This race condition fault has now
occurred three times in 1,122 sols for Opportunity and three times in
1,143 sols for Spirit. Essentially, while the rover was booting up in
the morning, two sequences were competing to complete first. The lower
priority task was stopped by the higher priority task and when the
former attempted to complete, it was locked out of the rover's memory.
The software did as it is supposed to and threw up a red flag to
programmers and awaited its next commands.

On Sols 1117 and 1118 were spent recovering the rover from the fault.
Opportunity spent sols 1119 and 1120 resting since these sols fell on an
Earth weekend (the project no longer has the resources to bring in a
weekend sequencing team).

On Sol 1121, Opportunity drove to a position on the Cape of Good Hope
to image the first half of a long baseline stereo image of Cape St.
Vincent. On Sol 1123, Opportunity will bump 2.5 meters (8.2 feet) to
image the second half of the Cape St. Vincent stereo image.

The remainder of the sols were spent obtaining remote sensing science.

Sol-by-sol summary:

In addition to Opportunity's usual observations of panoramic camera tau
measurements, navigation camera bitty cloud scans (looking to the sky
for clouds), miniature thermal emission spectrometer sky and ground
stares, and panoramic camera sky spots, the rover also did the following:

Sol 1118 (March 17, 2007): On this sol, Opportunity recovered from the
race condition fault.

Sol 1119: Opportunity rested this sol (weekend in Pasadena).

Sol 1120: Opportunity rested this sol (weekend in Pasadena).

Sol 1121: On this sol, the rover drove to the first eye position of long
baseline stereo image of Cape St. Vincent (9.97 meters or 33 feet) and
began imaging.

Sol 1122: The rover conducted remote sensing of atmosphere and soil
properties on this sol.

Sol 1123: Opportunity bumped to the second eye position of long baseline
stereo image of Cape St. Vincent (about 2.5 meters or 8.2 feet) and
began imaging.

Sol 1124: On this sol the rover conducted a panoramic camera systematic
soil and ground survey. The navigation camera was used in support of the
miniature thermal emission spectrometer. The panoramic camera had a look
at the horizon and the miniature thermal emission spectrometer assessed
the foreground.

Sol 1125: Opportunity used this sol to look at the sky and ground with
its miniature thermal emission. That instrument was also used to monitor
for dust.

Current Odometry:

As of sol 1121, Opportunity's total odometry is 10,295.50 meters (6.4
miles).

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[meteorite-list] blue crystals as desiccants

2007-03-29 Thread Zelimir Gabelica

Hi Al, list,

The blue crystals are indeed a cobalt chloride. Most of the current 
colored (blue) dessicants actually consist in impregnating silica gel beads 
(balls etc), by dehydrated cobalt chloride, that is blue.
For those who worry about the chemistry involved, let me ensure you that 
(in principle) that compound, as well as silica gel, shouldn't behave 
harmful to meteorites, provided the dessicant is not in direct contact with 
the meteorite surface (what Al observed is therefore correct).

For those who wish to know more about what is going on, on a molecular 
level, the old popular chemistry stated that anhydrous Co(II) chloride 
(CoCl2) was blue, while once hydrated with 6 water molecules, it gets a 
red-pink color, thus becoming CoCl2.6H2O.

This is actually not so.
The real reaction is as follows:

In a fully dry medium, two (Co(H2O)6)Cl2 (pink) molecules would dehydrate, 
thus loose all their 12 H2O molecules, and eventually yield anhydrous 
Co(CoCl4).
You can note that the coordination of Co(II) ion (or Co2+ ion) had changed.
It was initially octahedral (6 water molecules surrounding a Co2+ ion - 
also noted Co(II)) and it became, upon dehydration, tetrahedrally 
coordinated, thus consisting in an anion CoCl4 2-,  neutralized by a Co 2+ 
cation.
In other words, two molecules of hexaaquacobalt(II) chloride transform, 
upon loosing their 12 water molecules, into anhydrous 
cobalt(II)tetrachlorocobaltate(II). The change of coordination is 
basically responsible for the color change.

Sorry for those who are not familiar with (or hate) chemical formulas but 
the message is that as soon as the dessicant is blue, the chloride anions 
remain inside the coordination sphere of the cobalt complex as ligands 
and (probably) won't diffuse towards the meteorite, even if the dessicant 
is in contact. Upon rehydration (perfectly reversible), it is the water 
that migrates inside the coordination sphere of Co(II) (that now gets an 
octahedral symmetry) and the chlorides are now out of the coordination 
sphere, (thus perhaps more prompt to react with the meteorite if in 
contact, although probably not, because the whole salt, so neutralized, is 
still very stable).

As a conclusion and whatever the chemistry be, both complexes are quite 
stable and I don't believe chloride ions will ever diffuse towards the 
meteorite surface if the dessicant is adequately separated from it (I mean 
water, that readily diffuses through the whole system, won't bring along 
the chloride ions during its migration).

Also, bear in mind that the cobalt salt is only a color indicator of the 
ambient humidity (moisture). Red means there is water around and blue 
meaning the environment is really anhydrous.
The silica gel is the real dessicant (it absorbs both the cobalt salt and 
water into its porous texture). In other words, the color of the 
impregnated Co salt indicates whether the silica gel is still empty (of 
water) and thus a good drying agent (blue) or it is saturated with water 
(pink), then meaning that water is all around and thus also in contact with 
the meteorite.

Hoping this can help.
If collectors use other type of colors (or dyes), it is better to check the 
chemical properties of the dye first.

Have fun,

Zelimir


A 07:33 29/03/2007 -0500, AL Mitterling a écrit :
Greetings all,

I am thinking of introducing a product to help keep meteorites dry. I'll
go into more details when I have the product ready for shipping.

I was wanting input from collectors about using some blue crystals (with
chloride) with white crystals. The idea is to know when to charge or dry
your desiccant. While it might seem a bad idea to use the blue crystals,
it has been my experience that they won't cause problems as long as they
don't come into direct contact with meteorites. I know of several large
collections that use this method and I myself have used it with no ill
effect. However collectors have the last say by buying a product or not
buying a product so your input is important.

There are other types of colors that can be used but I wanted to stay
away from those for fear of introducing something into the meteorites
that could cause problems. Using those other colors would require input
from scientists to verify that no harm would be transmitted or absorbed
into specimens. The blue white crystals don't seem to be a problem from
my understanding.

Perhaps when I am ready, some collectors would like to test the product
out for me.

Your turn.

--AL Mitterling
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Prof. Zelimir Gabelica
Université de Haute Alsace
ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC,
3, Rue A. Werner,
F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France
Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94
Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15

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[meteorite-list] Mike Farmer's new pallasite

2007-03-29 Thread David Hardy

Is there a provisional name for Mike's new pallasite?   Great looking 
meteorite, if you have not grabbed some yet, do so.

David Hardy



 

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[meteorite-list] Russia, China Sign Joint Agreement for Phobos Mission


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/6506539.stm

Russia, China aim for Red Planet
BBC News
March 29, 2007

China will launch a joint mission with Russia to Mars, a milestone in
space co-operation between the two countries.

The agreement was signed during a three-day visit to Russia by China's
president Hu Jintao.

The move follows pledges by Moscow to work more closely with the Chinese
on missions to Mars and the Moon.

A small satellite developed by China will piggyback on the Russian
launch of a spacecraft called Phobos Grunt, probably in October 2009.

In a statement, the China National Space Administration said the
agreement indicates the two sides have taken a key step forward to
working together on a large space programme.

After entering orbit around the Red Planet, the Chinese micro-satellite
will detach from the Russian spacecraft, and probe the Martian space
environment, according to the statement.

The Russian spacecraft will touch down on the Martian moon Phobos and
collect soil samples for return to Earth.

There was no mention of a timetable in the Chinese space agency
statement. But earlier Russian reports said the launch window for the
10-11 month voyage to Phobos, Mars' largest moon, will be in October 2009.

The agreement was signed by the China National Space Administration head
Sun Laiyan and Russian Federal Space Agency (Roscosmos) chief Anatoly
Perminov and witnessed by the two countries' presidents.

China is working on a three-stage plan for exploration of the Earth's
Moon, which includes sending a lunar orbiter called Chang'e-1 some time
this year, followed by a soft landing in 2012 and the return of lunar
samples in another five years.

A UK team has also been developing a concept mission to land a
spacecraft on the potato-shaped moon Phobos. It would act as a
technology demonstrator for a mission to bring Martian rocks back to Earth.

Both Europe and the US have made the objective of returning Martian
samples to Earth laboratories a top priority for their space programmes.
A joint venture is likely to occur within the next 15-20 years.

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[meteorite-list] Tracking Asteroids in New Mexico


http://www.dchieftain.com/news/70146-03-28-07.html

Tracking asteroids
Argen Duncan 
El Defensor Chieftain (New Mexico)
March 28, 2007

Magdalena Ridge Observatory may join the search

NASA doesn't have the money to locate all of the asteroids that could
collide with and cause devastating damage to Earth by its initial
deadline, but two Socorro-area observatories could help with the hunt.

Earlier this month, NASA announced it doesn't have the $1 billion for
its plan to find 90 percent of the 20,000 potentially hazardous
asteroids and comets by 2020, according to an article by Associated
Press writer Seth Borenstein. Secondary options with different prices
were also rejected.

However, New Mexico Tech astrophysicist Eileen Ryan is hoping the
Magdalena Ridge Observatory will join the search. Also, two telescopes
at the White Sands Missile Range's Stallion Range Center, which is
located east of San Antonio, N.M., have tracked near-earth asteroids
since 1998.

Astrophysicist Jennifer Evans of Massachusetts Institute of Technology's
Lincoln Laboratories said the telescopes the labs operate at the
Stallion Range have been used to find 1,800 of the more than 4,000
near-earth asteroids. NASA is funding the work.

The main asteroid belt has another 200,000 of the objects.

Not all asteroids are potentially hazardous. An object that is about
half a mile across could have catastrophic global effects if it hit
Earth, while something approximately 300 feet across or less could have
a regional impact.

We've been the dominant telescope site doing this (asteroid tracking),
but there are other sites and other sites going online, said Roger
Sudbury of Lincoln Labs

Sudbury said currently, astrophysicists only use the data for predicting
possible danger and not preventing collisions.

We don't have the capability to do anything right now, he said.

Lincoln Labs telescopes take digital photographs, which show objects as
white dots. The images go to Harvard's Smithsonian Minor Planet
Institute, where scientists determine which asteroids might cross
Earth's orbit.

The telescopes must scan large areas rapidly and return their view to
the same place regularly to detect whether objects are moving.

It has to come back to the particular spot in the sky every, oh, 20
minutes, Sudbury said.

Evans said the telescopes' range depends on the size of the objects.

The devices can see around Pluto if operators work hard, but don't show
much beyond Jupiter. Evans said the closest they look is 26,000 miles
from Earth.

Evans said about eight employees work on the Stallion site telescopes
regularly, with some dividing their time among multiple projects.

Another two dozen people help occasionally or support the scientific
efforts.

A couple of people work with the project part time from Massachusetts,
Evans said.

On Tech's part, Ryan said researchers at the Magdalena Ridge
Observatory, 30 miles west of Socorro, believe they can contribute to
the search for potentially dangerous asteroids because telescopes half
the size of their 2.4-meter device typically do the work.

Now, the Magdalena Ridge Observatory has NASA funding to look at
main-belt asteroids. Researchers have been using a telescope in Arizona,
but Ryan hopes to move operations to the local observatory and expand
them to include near-earth asteroids.

She plans to submit a proposal for the work in May and expects to learn
whether it will receive funding by the end of the year.

Ryan said NASA needs more resources to fulfill Congress' directives to
find 90 percent of asteroids 1 kilometer across, as well as smaller objects.

The Magdalena Ridge Observatory is the biggest telescope that could
focus on the project, and it's already built.

And so we exist as a facility all ready to go, Ryan said.

If the observatory got the job, she said, it would gather information
about sightings of other facilities.

Some telescopes can't interrupt the cadence of their sky mapping to look
closely at an object.

However, if no one follows up immediately, scientists might not collect
good orbit data or the asteroid might not return.

It might be lost permanently, Ryan said of the information.

Ryan said Tech astronomers would normally use a charge-coupled device,
like what a digital camera uses, to see asteroids.

Ryan said scientists want to learn not only which asteroids might hit
earth, but also what compositions and internal structures they have.

That information would allow people to decide whether to try to avoid a
collision by diverting or blowing up the asteroids.
 
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Re: [meteorite-list] blue crystals as desiccants

2007-03-29 Thread Mike Jensen


Hi Zelimir
Thanks for the fascinating explanation about how the chemistry of
cobalt chloride works. You actually made me say something I thought I
would never sayI'm really glad I took college chemistry. Of
course that was 25 years ago and I was kind of foolish then.

--
Mike
--
Mike Jensen
Jensen Meteorites
16730 E Ada PL
Aurora, CO 80017-3137
303-337-4361
IMCA 4264
website: www.jensenmeteorites.com

On 3/29/07, Zelimir Gabelica [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Hi Al, list,

The blue crystals are indeed a cobalt chloride. Most of the current
colored (blue) dessicants actually consist in impregnating silica gel beads
(balls etc), by dehydrated cobalt chloride, that is blue.
For those who worry about the chemistry involved, let me ensure you that
(in principle) that compound, as well as silica gel, shouldn't behave
harmful to meteorites, provided the dessicant is not in direct contact with
the meteorite surface (what Al observed is therefore correct).

For those who wish to know more about what is going on, on a molecular
level, the old popular chemistry stated that anhydrous Co(II) chloride
(CoCl2) was blue, while once hydrated with 6 water molecules, it gets a
red-pink color, thus becoming CoCl2.6H2O.

This is actually not so.
The real reaction is as follows:

In a fully dry medium, two (Co(H2O)6)Cl2 (pink) molecules would dehydrate,
thus loose all their 12 H2O molecules, and eventually yield anhydrous
Co(CoCl4).
You can note that the coordination of Co(II) ion (or Co2+ ion) had changed.
It was initially octahedral (6 water molecules surrounding a Co2+ ion -
also noted Co(II)) and it became, upon dehydration, tetrahedrally
coordinated, thus consisting in an anion CoCl4 2-,  neutralized by a Co 2+
cation.
In other words, two molecules of hexaaquacobalt(II) chloride transform,
upon loosing their 12 water molecules, into anhydrous
cobalt(II)tetrachlorocobaltate(II). The change of coordination is
basically responsible for the color change.

Sorry for those who are not familiar with (or hate) chemical formulas but
the message is that as soon as the dessicant is blue, the chloride anions
remain inside the coordination sphere of the cobalt complex as ligands
and (probably) won't diffuse towards the meteorite, even if the dessicant
is in contact. Upon rehydration (perfectly reversible), it is the water
that migrates inside the coordination sphere of Co(II) (that now gets an
octahedral symmetry) and the chlorides are now out of the coordination
sphere, (thus perhaps more prompt to react with the meteorite if in
contact, although probably not, because the whole salt, so neutralized, is
still very stable).

As a conclusion and whatever the chemistry be, both complexes are quite
stable and I don't believe chloride ions will ever diffuse towards the
meteorite surface if the dessicant is adequately separated from it (I mean
water, that readily diffuses through the whole system, won't bring along
the chloride ions during its migration).

Also, bear in mind that the cobalt salt is only a color indicator of the
ambient humidity (moisture). Red means there is water around and blue
meaning the environment is really anhydrous.
The silica gel is the real dessicant (it absorbs both the cobalt salt and
water into its porous texture). In other words, the color of the
impregnated Co salt indicates whether the silica gel is still empty (of
water) and thus a good drying agent (blue) or it is saturated with water
(pink), then meaning that water is all around and thus also in contact with
the meteorite.

Hoping this can help.
If collectors use other type of colors (or dyes), it is better to check the
chemical properties of the dye first.

Have fun,

Zelimir


A 07:33 29/03/2007 -0500, AL Mitterling a écrit :
Greetings all,

I am thinking of introducing a product to help keep meteorites dry. I'll
go into more details when I have the product ready for shipping.

I was wanting input from collectors about using some blue crystals (with
chloride) with white crystals. The idea is to know when to charge or dry
your desiccant. While it might seem a bad idea to use the blue crystals,
it has been my experience that they won't cause problems as long as they
don't come into direct contact with meteorites. I know of several large
collections that use this method and I myself have used it with no ill
effect. However collectors have the last say by buying a product or not
buying a product so your input is important.

There are other types of colors that can be used but I wanted to stay
away from those for fear of introducing something into the meteorites
that could cause problems. Using those other colors would require input
from scientists to verify that no harm would be transmitted or absorbed
into specimens. The blue white crystals don't seem to be a problem from
my understanding.

Perhaps when I am ready, some collectors would like to test the product
out for me.

Your turn.

--AL Mitterling
__

Re: [meteorite-list] Mike Farmer's new pallasite

David, it has no provisional name yet, that will be
done when the classification is done in the next few
weeks. We are now waiting on another slice to be made,
with interior crystals now that I have found more
pieces. The bulk analysis is done, we just need some
microprobe time on clean crystals.
Michael Farmer

--- David Hardy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Is there a provisional name for Mike's new
 pallasite?   Great looking meteorite, if you have
 not grabbed some yet, do so.
 
 David Hardy
 
 
 
  


 Now that's room service!  Choose from over 150,000
 hotels
 in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your
 fit.
 http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097
 __
 Meteorite-list mailing list
 Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com

http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
 

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[meteorite-list] Need Recommendations for Petrographic Thin Section Maker

2007-03-29 Thread Paul

Dear list members,

I need a number of petrographic thin sections made
for a project. Unfortunately, the petrographic thin
section lab, which I used has gone out of business. 

Can anyone recommend, off list if desired, one or 
more petrographic thin section lab(s), who make
quality standard petrographic thin sections? 

Yours,

Paul 
Baton Rouge, LA


 

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[meteorite-list] Petrographic Thin Section Maker

2007-03-29 Thread bernd . pauli

Paul inquired:

Can anyone recommend, off list if desired, one or more petrographic
thin section lab(s), who make quality standard petrographic thin sections? 

Hi Paul and List,

If *quality* is the key word, there is only one thin section maker:

David Mann from New Mexico!

He is the one who used to make David New's thin sections and thin section
collectors like Alex Seidel, Mark Bostick, John Kashuba, and others know
that these TS are beyond compare!

Best wishes,

Bernd


To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com

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[meteorite-list] AD - Super Auctions Ending - Definitely Worth Checking Out!

2007-03-29 Thread Adam Hupe

Dear List Members,

I have several SUPER auctions ending in a few hours. 
I loaded some outstanding examples and started them
out at just 99 cents, some worth hundreds, even
thousands! All of the specimens are excellent so be
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Best Regards,


Adam Hupe
The Hupe Collection
Team LunarRock
IMCA 2185
[EMAIL PROTECTED]



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Re: [meteorite-list] Petrographic Thin Section Maker

2007-03-29 Thread Impactika

In a message dated 3/29/2007 11:53:18 A.M. Mountain Standard Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Paul inquired:

Can anyone recommend,  off list if desired, one or more petrographic
thin section lab(s), who make  quality standard petrographic thin sections? 

Hi Paul and List,

If  *quality* is the key word, there is only one thin section maker:

David  Mann from New Mexico!

He is the one who used to make David New's thin  sections and thin section
collectors like Alex Seidel, Mark Bostick, John  Kashuba, and others know
that these TS are beyond compare!

Best  wishes,

Bernd

__

Yes, he is the best. And he works for me too!! 
 
But he does not like his name mentioned. He is supposed to be  retired!   ;-)

Anne M. Black
www.IMPACTIKA.com
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
President,  I.M.C.A. Inc.
www.IMCA.cc
 



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Re: [meteorite-list] Petrographic Thin Section Maker

2007-03-29 Thread Alexander Seidel

Ouch, Bernd, this name dropping should better have been kept a little bit more 
under the cover! Sorry, but this is my opinion for many a good reason  which 
the other persons named, who know that specific slide maker, may second...

Then again you are right, of course.

Alex
Berlin/Germany


 Original-Nachricht 
Datum: 29 Mar 2007 18:48:13 UT
Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
An: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Betreff: [meteorite-list] Petrographic Thin Section Maker

 Paul inquired:
 
 Can anyone recommend, off list if desired, one or more petrographic
 thin section lab(s), who make quality standard petrographic thin sections?
 
 Hi Paul and List,
 
 If *quality* is the key word, there is only one thin section maker:
 
 David Mann from New Mexico!
 
 He is the one who used to make David New's thin sections and thin section
 collectors like Alex Seidel, Mark Bostick, John Kashuba, and others know
 that these TS are beyond compare!
 
 Best wishes,
 
 Bernd
 
 
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
 
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Re: [meteorite-list] Petrographic Thin Section Maker

2007-03-29 Thread Michael L Blood

I have never used ANY other thin section maker. Cost is way higher
than others, but product is vastly superior. I slowed down a great
deal when Dean Bessey flooded the market with inferior thin
sections that he sold for cheaper than it cost me to have mine made,
even had the material been free - which of course, it wasn't.
He also takes MONTHS to get things made - but they are
THE best, by far. 
Best wishes, Michael

on 3/29/07 12:04 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 In a message dated 3/29/2007 11:53:18 A.M. Mountain Standard Time,
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 Paul inquired:
 
 Can anyone recommend,  off list if desired, one or more petrographic
 thin section lab(s), who make  quality standard petrographic thin sections?
 
 Hi Paul and List,
 
 If  *quality* is the key word, there is only one thin section maker:
 
  He is the one who used to make David New's thin  sections and thin section
 collectors like Alex Seidel, Mark Bostick, John  Kashuba, and others know
 that these TS are beyond compare!
 
 Best  wishes,
 
 Bernd
 
 __
 
 Yes, he is the best. And he works for me too!!
 
 But he does not like his name mentioned. He is supposed to be  retired!   ;-)
 
 Anne M. Black
 www.IMPACTIKA.com
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 President,  I.M.C.A. Inc.
 www.IMCA.cc
 
 
 
 
 ** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
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[meteorite-list] Space junk re-entry just misses Chilean jet liner

2007-03-29 Thread Kevin Forbes



Burning space junk falls near passenger plane
NZPA | Wednesday, 28 March 2007

The Civil Aviation Authority will investigate how falling space junk came 
within kilometres of a passenger flight into Auckland today.



The pilot of the Chilean plane saw the burning debris both in front and 
behind the aircraft while flying across the Pacific before landing safely at 
Auckland International Airport, One News reported tonight.


Russian authorities had warned an obsolete satellite was expected to fall in 
the area, but it happened 12 hours early.


A CAA spokesman said details had not yet been passed on to the authority, 
but a safety investigation would be launched once a report on the incident 
was received.



--
Kevin.

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[meteorite-list] Petrographic Thin Section Maker

2007-03-29 Thread bernd . pauli

Capt'n Blood:

I have never used ANY other thin section maker. Cost is way higher
than others, but product is vastly superior...He also takes MONTHS
to get things made ...

Good things do take time, as we all know. A superior product even longer!

Paul and others may also be interested in this piece of information:

Our very own Steve Schoner has also started producing his own thin sections.
So far I've only acquired one of these, the Potter TS + the 1.2-gram slice this
TS was cut from. To be able to say how professional Steve's thin sections are,
I would have to see several different TS, especially ones with lots of 
chondrules,
or ones with colorful crystals (brachinites, acapulcoites, etc.), ones with a 
lot
of delicate details, etc.

But, maybe, Steve would like to chime in and share his perspective!

As for Dean's TS, there was one advantage apart from the low price: the viewing 
area
was usually enormous, sometimes almost too big - but some were of mediocre 
quality,
others quite good whereas the ones David New sold were always of *superb* 
quality!

There was someone else who used to offer thin sections, and again, the price 
was tempting.
But when I complained about the proper thickness of several of these TS, the 
person I'm
talking about was very upset and angry. I promised him I would apologize, even 
in public,
if my complaint was unjustified. Soon after several of these TS were offered at 
reduced
prices on EBay and the information was correctly given that these thin sections 
had not
been ground to the proper thickness ... needless to say that I did not 
apologize!

Best wishes,

Bernd

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Re: [meteorite-list] Space junk re-entry just misses Chilean jet liner

2007-03-29 Thread Chris Peterson

So far, I've heard nothing to make me think that anything from space, 
natural or otherwise, came within a few kilometers of this plane. Is 
there anything to support this other than the report of the pilot? I've 
found that pilots, in general, provide some of the worst quality meteor 
reports. I'm doubtful that many pilots are capable of judging the 
distance to a meteor. Odds are, this thing actually burned up many 
kilometers above the plane.


Chris

*
Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com


- Original Message - 
From: Kevin Forbes [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2007 2:25 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Space junk re-entry just misses Chilean jet 
liner



Burning space junk falls near passenger plane
NZPA | Wednesday, 28 March 2007

The Civil Aviation Authority will investigate how falling space junk 
came

within kilometres of a passenger flight into Auckland today.


The pilot of the Chilean plane saw the burning debris both in front 
and
behind the aircraft while flying across the Pacific before landing 
safely at

Auckland International Airport, One News reported tonight.

Russian authorities had warned an obsolete satellite was expected to 
fall in

the area, but it happened 12 hours early.

A CAA spokesman said details had not yet been passed on to the 
authority,
but a safety investigation would be launched once a report on the 
incident

was received.


--
Kevin.


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Re: [meteorite-list] Space junk re-entry just misses Chilean jet liner

2007-03-29 Thread dean bessey

--- Chris Peterson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Odds are, this thing actually
 burned up many 
 kilometers above the plane.
 Chris
 
The pilot also claims to have herd a loud noise which
means it must have been pretty close to hear that
above the sound of the plane. Also he saw pieces in
front of and behind him so he was probably actually
inside the debris field.
Apparantly the aviation officials (CAA) in New Zealand
was informed by the russians about the space debris
dumping which is a relitively common occurance here
apparantly but the debris entered the atmosphere 12
hours early for some reason and planes were in the
area. An aerolinas argentinas flight was also entering
the area (From the opposite direction) and was warned
of the unexpected re-entry but the pilot decided to
continue their flight and they didnt witness anything.
The flight was inside auckland internationals control
zone but still over the pacific ocean (From what I
understand from local news here) so the debris fell in
the ocean so no search and recovery effort is
possible.
Cheers
DEAN



 

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Re: [meteorite-list] Space junk re-entry just misses Chilean jet liner

2007-03-29 Thread dean bessey

--- Chris Peterson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Odds are, this thing actually
 burned up many 
 kilometers above the plane.
 Chris
 
The pilot also claims to have herd a loud noise which
means it must have been pretty close to hear that
above the sound of the plane. Also he saw pieces in
front of and behind him so he was probably actually
inside the debris field.
Apparantly the aviation officials (CAA) in New Zealand
was informed by the russians about the space debris
dumping which is a relitively common occurance here
apparantly but the debris entered the atmosphere 12
hours early for some reason and planes were in the
area. An aerolinas argentinas flight was also entering
the area (From the opposite direction) and was warned
of the unexpected re-entry but the pilot decided to
continue their flight and they didnt witness anything.
The flight was inside auckland internationals control
zone but still over the pacific ocean (From what I
understand from local news here) so the debris fell in
the ocean so no search and recovery effort is
possible.
Cheers
DEAN



 

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Re: [meteorite-list] Petrographic Thin Section Maker

2007-03-29 Thread jeff hodges

Yes,
   
  I just talked to Dave earlier today before I saw
this thread.  It may explain some of the stress I
could sense in his voice when we spoke.  Not only is
he supposed to be retired, he currently has way too
much work to handle.  He is starting to feel a little
stressed and frustrated and is worried that he can't
keep his craftmanship up to the standard of quality he
expects.  He has had lots of people calling and trying
to get him to set dates and meet deadlines etc.  He
does not work this way. He takes his time and does the
job right.  The very few special people he does do
some occasional post-retirement work for all
understand this and often wait a year or more to get
some of their material finished.  Even though his work
is the best, his lab is not the place for just anyone
and everyone to start sending material off to.  Those
of you who know and work with Dave are already well
aware of this. For those that do not,  I hope that you
can respect this delicate situation and only send him
material via a personal referral from someone that
does work with him if you must, but don't expect it to
be easy to find someone willing to do so. He already
has more work than he wants to deal with and if he
gets inundated with new clients, especially demading
ones, I fear he will completely retire. Those of you
that are close to Dave like I am all know what that
would mean.  It would not be good for the meteorite
collectors of the world.  An extremely valuable assett
to the meteorite community will be gone forever. 

These are the facts, plain and simple.  Not just my
opinion.

Jeff Hodges



Alexander Seidel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 
  Ouch, Bernd, this name dropping should better have
been kept a little bit more under the cover! Sorry,
but this is my opinion for many a good reason which
the other persons named, who know that specific slide
maker, may second...

Then again you are right, of course.

Alex
Berlin/Germany


 Original-Nachricht 
Datum: 29 Mar 2007 18:48:13 UT
Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
An: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Betreff: [meteorite-list] Petrographic Thin Section
Maker

 Paul inquired:
 
 Can anyone recommend, off list if desired, one or
more petrographic
 thin section lab(s), who make quality standard
petrographic thin sections?
 
 Hi Paul and List,
 
 If *quality* is the key word, there is only one thin
section maker:
 
 David Mann from New Mexico!
 
 He is the one who used to make David New's thin
sections and thin section
 collectors like Alex Seidel, Mark Bostick, John
Kashuba, and others know
 that these TS are beyond compare!
 
 Best wishes,
 
 Bernd
 
 
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
 
 __
 Meteorite-list mailing list
 Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com

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Re: [meteorite-list] Space junk re-entry just misses Chilean jet liner

2007-03-29 Thread richard rumble

Courious as to how he saw the debris BEHIND his aircraft.. didn't know that 
they had a rear view mirror on those birds

Richard Rumble



-Original Message-
From: Kevin Forbes [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Mar 29, 2007 1:25 PM
To: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Subject: [meteorite-list] Space junk re-entry just misses Chilean jet liner


Burning space junk falls near passenger plane
NZPA | Wednesday, 28 March 2007

The Civil Aviation Authority will investigate how falling space junk came 
within kilometres of a passenger flight into Auckland today.


The pilot of the Chilean plane saw the burning debris both in front and 
behind the aircraft while flying across the Pacific before landing safely at 
Auckland International Airport, One News reported tonight.

Russian authorities had warned an obsolete satellite was expected to fall in 
the area, but it happened 12 hours early.

A CAA spokesman said details had not yet been passed on to the authority, 
but a safety investigation would be launched once a report on the incident 
was received.


--
Kevin.

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[meteorite-list] Looking for a picture of Krinov

2007-03-29 Thread Rob Wesel


Hello all

Anyone out there have an image of Krinov or know where I can find one?

Any help would be greatly appreciated

Rob Wesel
http://www.nakhladogmeteorites.com
--
We are the music makers...
and we are the dreamers of the dreams.
Willy Wonka, 1971




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Re: [meteorite-list] Space junk re-entry just misses Chilean jetliner

2007-03-29 Thread Chris Peterson

It would be normal to hear sonic booms if the plane was within 100 km or 
so of the object, which could easily be many kilometers higher. I've got 
many pilot reports of meteors level with or below the plane, when this 
was clearly not the case. Of course, typical meteors that are 100s of 
kilometers away may be seen below the plane (but distances are usually 
reported too close by one or two orders of magnitude).


While it certainly isn't impossible for meteoroids or space junk to 
survive (burning) to aircraft cruise heights, it's not common. Until I 
hear evidence other than just the pilot's report, I'll assume that what 
actually happened was far less dramatic than what is being reported.


Chris

*
Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com


- Original Message - 
From: dean bessey [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2007 4:16 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Space junk re-entry just misses Chilean 
jetliner




The pilot also claims to have herd a loud noise which
means it must have been pretty close to hear that
above the sound of the plane. Also he saw pieces in
front of and behind him so he was probably actually
inside the debris field.
Apparantly the aviation officials (CAA) in New Zealand
was informed by the russians about the space debris
dumping which is a relitively common occurance here
apparantly but the debris entered the atmosphere 12
hours early for some reason and planes were in the
area. An aerolinas argentinas flight was also entering
the area (From the opposite direction) and was warned
of the unexpected re-entry but the pilot decided to
continue their flight and they didnt witness anything.
The flight was inside auckland internationals control
zone but still over the pacific ocean (From what I
understand from local news here) so the debris fell in
the ocean so no search and recovery effort is
possible.
Cheers
DEAN


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Re: [meteorite-list] Looking for a picture of Krinov

Hi, Rob, List,


In the field:
http://www.tunguska.ru/history/persone/krinov/

The Academician:
http://www.tstu.ru/eng/tambov/tambov_img/imena_img/levkoev.jpg


Sterling K. Webb
---
- Original Message - 
From: Rob Wesel [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Meteorite List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2007 5:27 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Looking for a picture of Krinov


Hello all

Anyone out there have an image of Krinov or know where I can find one?

Any help would be greatly appreciated

Rob Wesel
http://www.nakhladogmeteorites.com
--
We are the music makers...
and we are the dreamers of the dreams.
Willy Wonka, 1971




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[meteorite-list] RUSSIAN SPACE JUNK NOW A METEORITE

2007-03-29 Thread dean bessey

I havent seen this on TV yet but it should make for
interesting news tonight I am sure:
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/1/story.cfm?c_id=1objectid=10431624
Cheers
DEAN
www.meteoriteshop.com



 

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Re: [meteorite-list] Looking for a picture of Krinov

2007-03-29 Thread Philip R. Burns


At 05:27 PM 3/29/2007, you wrote:


Anyone out there have an image of Krinov or know where I can find one?


Please see:

http://www.tunguska.ru/history/persone/krinov/


-- Philip R. Pib Burns
   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   http://www.pibburns.com/


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Re: [meteorite-list] Looking for a picture of Krinov ERROR

Hi, Rob,

Betrayed by Google! The second URL below
is Igor Levkoev, not Yevgeny Krinov. My bad.
So only one photo found:
http://www.tunguska.ru/history/persone/krinov/


Sterling K. Webb
-
- Original Message - 
From: Sterling K. Webb [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Rob Wesel [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Meteorite List 
meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2007 6:00 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Looking for a picture of Krinov


Hi, Rob, List,


In the field:
http://www.tunguska.ru/history/persone/krinov/

The Academician:
http://www.tstu.ru/eng/tambov/tambov_img/imena_img/levkoev.jpg


Sterling K. Webb
---
- Original Message - 
From: Rob Wesel [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Meteorite List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2007 5:27 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Looking for a picture of Krinov


Hello all

Anyone out there have an image of Krinov or know where I can find one?

Any help would be greatly appreciated

Rob Wesel
http://www.nakhladogmeteorites.com
--
We are the music makers...
and we are the dreamers of the dreams.
Willy Wonka, 1971




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[meteorite-list] H2 or L2 CLASS METEORITES

2007-03-29 Thread steve arnold

Hi list.I was thinking about this today and I have not
had time to research it.Are there any H2 or L2 class
meteorites that have been classified?This is a real
must thread for me.Any help would be welcome.




steve arnold,chicago

Steve R.Arnold,chicago,Ill,Usa!!
  Collecting Meteorites since 06/19/1999!!
  www.chicagometeorites.net
  Ebay I.D. Illinoismeteorites



 

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Re: [meteorite-list] Looking for a picture of Krinov ONE MORE

Hi, Rob, List,

Saved by Google! Here's another photo of
Krinov:
http://www.tstu.ru/win/tambov/tambov_img/imena_img/krinov.jpg
which is the one I meant to get before being
Konfused by Kyrillic.

Sterling K. Webb
(or should that be Ctepлинг?)
-
- Original Message - 
From: Sterling K. Webb [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Rob Wesel [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Meteorite List 
meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2007 6:51 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Looking for a picture of Krinov ERROR


Hi, Rob,

Betrayed by Google! The second URL below
is Igor Levkoev, not Yevgeny Krinov. My bad.
So only one photo found:
http://www.tunguska.ru/history/persone/krinov/


Sterling K. Webb
-
- Original Message - 
From: Sterling K. Webb [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Rob Wesel [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Meteorite List
meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2007 6:00 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Looking for a picture of Krinov


Hi, Rob, List,


In the field:
http://www.tunguska.ru/history/persone/krinov/

The Academician:
http://www.tstu.ru/eng/tambov/tambov_img/imena_img/levkoev.jpg


Sterling K. Webb
---
- Original Message - 
From: Rob Wesel [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Meteorite List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2007 5:27 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Looking for a picture of Krinov


Hello all

Anyone out there have an image of Krinov or know where I can find one?

Any help would be greatly appreciated

Rob Wesel
http://www.nakhladogmeteorites.com
--
We are the music makers...
and we are the dreamers of the dreams.
Willy Wonka, 1971




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Re: [meteorite-list] Space junk re-entry just misses Chilean jetliner

Hi,

Since the Progress module was still docked
with the ISS when this happened, it seems it was
a natural bolide, probably far, far away from
the plane.
If so, we missed a chance to start a new and
very exclusive Hammer List!
A little scribbled arithmetic shows that the
average total upper surface area exposed by all
the commercial air flights of all the world's airlines
summed up by the time they spend in the air
amounts to the same collisional cross-section
as about 10 square kilometers of land down here
on the planet.
Probably have to wait thousands of years for
a meteorite hit on a plane...


Sterling K. Webb
--
- Original Message - 
From: Chris Peterson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2007 4:29 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Space junk re-entry just misses Chilean 
jetliner


So far, I've heard nothing to make me think that anything from space,
natural or otherwise, came within a few kilometers of this plane. Is
there anything to support this other than the report of the pilot? I've
found that pilots, in general, provide some of the worst quality meteor
reports. I'm doubtful that many pilots are capable of judging the
distance to a meteor. Odds are, this thing actually burned up many
kilometers above the plane.

Chris

*
Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com


- Original Message - 
From: Kevin Forbes [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2007 2:25 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Space junk re-entry just misses Chilean jet
liner

 Burning space junk falls near passenger plane
 NZPA | Wednesday, 28 March 2007

 The Civil Aviation Authority will investigate how falling space junk
 came
 within kilometres of a passenger flight into Auckland today.


 The pilot of the Chilean plane saw the burning debris both in front
 and
 behind the aircraft while flying across the Pacific before landing
 safely at
 Auckland International Airport, One News reported tonight.

 Russian authorities had warned an obsolete satellite was expected to
 fall in
 the area, but it happened 12 hours early.

 A CAA spokesman said details had not yet been passed on to the
 authority,
 but a safety investigation would be launched once a report on the
 incident
 was received.


 --
 Kevin.

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Re: [meteorite-list] H2 or L2 CLASS METEORITES

2007-03-29 Thread tett


Steve,

No.

By definition, ordinary chondrites have a petrologic classification of 3 to 
6.  Sometimes 7 depending on the meteoriticist.


Petrologic types 1 and 2 do not occur in ordinary chondrites  Richard 
Norton R.F.S. 2ed pg 185


Richard Norton has much more to say about this in both Rocks from Space and 
The Cambridge Encyclopedia of Meteorites.


Cheers,

Mike Tettenborn

and - Original Message - 
From: steve arnold [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2007 7:57 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] H2 or L2 CLASS METEORITES



Hi list.I was thinking about this today and I have not
had time to research it.Are there any H2 or L2 class
meteorites that have been classified?This is a real
must thread for me.Any help would be welcome.




steve arnold,chicago

Steve R.Arnold,chicago,Ill,Usa!!
 Collecting Meteorites since 06/19/1999!!
 www.chicagometeorites.net
 Ebay I.D. Illinoismeteorites





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Re: [meteorite-list] H2 or L2 CLASS METEORITES

2007-03-29 Thread MexicoDoug

I was thinking about this today and I have not had time to research it.

Hello Steve,

I hope you can do some research sometime, Steve.  As H and L are thought
to be two unique and real parent bodies, your question can be stated
alternately:

Were there any places on the H parent body or the L parent body that did
not experience the thermally-induced alteration characteristic of
unequilibrated chondrites 3, and if so, did any residue from them reach
earth and drop meteorites?

I think the answer is no.  Harry McSween explains that on these parent
bodies, especially with reference to the onion-skin model of asteroids, the
incubation caused by radioactive disintegration warmed the whole of the
parent body uniformly enough to cook all of our H- and L-chondrites enough
according to 'current' understanding.  But that doesn't mean chance could
have thermally isolated or provided a shady heat sink somewhere on the
surface where the legendary H2 or L2 could have been protected from its
mother planetoid.

Carbonaceous chondrites meteorites show 2 and essentially 1 not because
they were heated, but rather because of their setting of primordial
material, like celestial cementing that formed them, altered them to varying
degrees with water, but not the heat on the H- and L- assumed to be larger
parent bodies.

Note since there are just two parent bodies here, it is easy to write off
the possibility of H2 and L2 just by saying, these bodies were simply too
warm for this to occur.  If you calculate an asteroid diameter to explain
the H3-6 distributions we know, for example, you can say how big the parent
body was, and once you say how big it was, you can argue by its thermal
properties how it all got warm and sufficiently metamorphic.

But this is all still conjecture.  The University of Chicago is always in
need of a few good men!!  Go Steve!!

Best Wishes and Best Health,
Doug

- Original Message - 
From: steve arnold [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2007 5:57 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] H2 or L2 CLASS METEORITES


 Hi list.I was thinking about this today and I have not
 had time to research it.Are there any H2 or L2 class
 meteorites that have been classified?This is a real
 must thread for me.Any help would be welcome.




 steve arnold,chicago

 Steve R.Arnold,chicago,Ill,Usa!!
   Collecting Meteorites since 06/19/1999!!
   www.chicagometeorites.net
   Ebay I.D. Illinoismeteorites







 The fish are biting.
 Get more visitors on your site using Yahoo! Search Marketing.
 http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/arp/sponsoredsearch_v2.php
 __
 Meteorite-list mailing list
 Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
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Re: [meteorite-list] H2 or L2 CLASS METEORITES

2007-03-29 Thread Jeff Grossman

No, and there probably never will be, at least I don't think such a 
classification would ever be widely accepted.


Type 2 is an old convention, and has only ever been applied to 
carbonaceous chondrites.  It originated with Wiik (1956), who divided 
the carbonaceous chondrites into 3 chemical groups, I, II, and 
III.  Group II had ~13 wt% H2O, no metal, and a lot of FeS.  The 
meteorites of this type were Cold Bokkeveld, Nogoya, Mighei, 
Nawapali, Haripura, Santa Cruz, Murray, and Boriskino, all of which 
we now call CM2.


In 1967, Van Schmus and Wood wrote the landmark paper that 
established the modern petrologic types.  The unequilibrated 
chondrites were divided into types 1, 2, and 3, basically along the 
same lines as Wiik's roman-numeral classes for carbonaceous 
chondrites.  Type 2 was specifically tailored to encompass Wiik's 
group II, and defined as having abundant fine-grained matrix, 4-18 
wt% H2O, low metal, and Ni-bearing sulfides.  All of the meteorites 
called type 2 by Van Schmus and Wood were again our modern CM2 
chondrites, with the addition of Al Rais and Renazzo (which we now 
call CR2), and Kaba (which is no longer called type 2).


Ordinary chondrites could not strictly be called type 2, even if one 
was found that was water-rich: they don't have enough matrix and have 
too much metal to fit the old petrologic definition, which was 
customized for only CM and CR carbonaceous chondrites.  In fact, 
Semarkona does have hydrous minerals, especially in its matrix, and I 
know that a number of my colleagues have been tempted to call it type 
2 (including Sears et al., 1980, of which I am an al).  But that 
would have caused a classification crisis in ordinary chondrite 
nomenclature since the petrologic types of those groups designate 
something quite different: they are strictly a metamorphic 
sequence.  So it just wasn't done.  Semarkona has stayed a type 3, 
despite the fact that it has probably experienced a similar degree of 
alteration as some CR2s.  It's really just a matter of tradition at 
this point.


Jeff



At 06:57 PM 3/29/2007, steve arnold wrote:

Hi list.I was thinking about this today and I have not
had time to research it.Are there any H2 or L2 class
meteorites that have been classified?This is a real
must thread for me.Any help would be welcome.




steve arnold,chicago

Steve R.Arnold,chicago,Ill,Usa!!
  Collecting Meteorites since 06/19/1999!!
  www.chicagometeorites.net
  Ebay I.D. Illinoismeteorites





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Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman   phone: (703) 648-6184
US Geological Survey  fax:   (703) 648-6383
954 National Center
Reston, VA 20192, USA


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Re: [meteorite-list] H2 or L2 CLASS METEORITES

2007-03-29 Thread tett


Doug,

Does petrologic grade 3, in essence, mean little to no thermal alteration? 
If so, then there can not be a type 2 even with a nice heat sink to protect 
these primordial chondrules.  In fact, McSween's chart on pg 63 2nd ed. 
shows type 3 as neither aqueous altered or thermally altered.  However, he 
does mention that these classifications are simplifications and intended to 
represent a range of alteration.  Why we now have LL3.7's etc.


Although I have not found this plainly stated, I believe the intent of the 
classification system was that H3.0 or L3.0 or LL3.0 are thermally unaltered 
and hence have pristine baby fresh chondrules.


The parent bodies for the carbonaceous chondrites did not experience the 
same temperatures leading to thermal alteration of their chondrules.  At 
least, I guess this is so.


Cheers,

Mike Tettenborn


- Original Message - 
From: MexicoDoug [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: Meteorite Mailing List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2007 9:05 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] H2 or L2 CLASS METEORITES



I was thinking about this today and I have not had time to research it.

Hello Steve,

I hope you can do some research sometime, Steve.  As H and L are 
thought

to be two unique and real parent bodies, your question can be stated
alternately:

Were there any places on the H parent body or the L parent body that did
not experience the thermally-induced alteration characteristic of
unequilibrated chondrites 3, and if so, did any residue from them reach
earth and drop meteorites?

I think the answer is no.  Harry McSween explains that on these parent
bodies, especially with reference to the onion-skin model of asteroids, 
the

incubation caused by radioactive disintegration warmed the whole of the
parent body uniformly enough to cook all of our H- and L-chondrites enough
according to 'current' understanding.  But that doesn't mean chance could
have thermally isolated or provided a shady heat sink somewhere on the
surface where the legendary H2 or L2 could have been protected from its
mother planetoid.

Carbonaceous chondrites meteorites show 2 and essentially 1 not 
because

they were heated, but rather because of their setting of primordial
material, like celestial cementing that formed them, altered them to 
varying

degrees with water, but not the heat on the H- and L- assumed to be larger
parent bodies.

Note since there are just two parent bodies here, it is easy to write off
the possibility of H2 and L2 just by saying, these bodies were simply too
warm for this to occur.  If you calculate an asteroid diameter to explain
the H3-6 distributions we know, for example, you can say how big the 
parent

body was, and once you say how big it was, you can argue by its thermal
properties how it all got warm and sufficiently metamorphic.

But this is all still conjecture.  The University of Chicago is always in
need of a few good men!!  Go Steve!!

Best Wishes and Best Health,
Doug

- Original Message - 
From: steve arnold [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2007 5:57 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] H2 or L2 CLASS METEORITES



Hi list.I was thinking about this today and I have not
had time to research it.Are there any H2 or L2 class
meteorites that have been classified?This is a real
must thread for me.Any help would be welcome.




steve arnold,chicago

Steve R.Arnold,chicago,Ill,Usa!!
  Collecting Meteorites since 06/19/1999!!
  www.chicagometeorites.net
  Ebay I.D. Illinoismeteorites









The fish are biting.
Get more visitors on your site using Yahoo! Search Marketing.
http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/arp/sponsoredsearch_v2.php
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Re: [meteorite-list] H2 or L2 CLASS METEORITES

2007-03-29 Thread MexicoDoug

Hi Mike,

In light of Jeff's post I'd tend to yield if I were in an argument and just
agree.  But if the purpose is to get a feel for what is happening and why,
it's more fun to keep these ideas alive.

Scientists can make conventions, and it is very hard to keep conventions
written in stone.  Until a new stone causing them to go back to the drawing
board.  The purpose of my post was to complement your ideas and get an
understanding of the processes.  If the scientists want to define 3.0 as the
lowest and take into consideration a well thought out scheme, that's fine.
Then, someone, somewhere, will come up with something that doesn't fit some
class and it will be worth $1000/gram and have everyone buzzing.

Yielding with a good fight, and remembering the 4 billion year old rocks
found in Australia,
Doug

PS as to McSween's chart, I think that is a red herring.  After all, if you
were to interpret it literally as you do, type I carbonaceous would be
more altered by water than type 2!!

- Original Message - 
From: tett [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: MexicoDoug [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Meteorite Mailing List
meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2007 7:31 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] H2 or L2 CLASS METEORITES


 Doug,

 Does petrologic grade 3, in essence, mean little to no thermal alteration?
 If so, then there can not be a type 2 even with a nice heat sink to
protect
 these primordial chondrules.  In fact, McSween's chart on pg 63 2nd ed.
 shows type 3 as neither aqueous altered or thermally altered.  However, he
 does mention that these classifications are simplifications and intended
to
 represent a range of alteration.  Why we now have LL3.7's etc.

 Although I have not found this plainly stated, I believe the intent of the
 classification system was that H3.0 or L3.0 or LL3.0 are thermally
unaltered
 and hence have pristine baby fresh chondrules.

 The parent bodies for the carbonaceous chondrites did not experience the
 same temperatures leading to thermal alteration of their chondrules.  At
 least, I guess this is so.

 Cheers,

 Mike Tettenborn


 - Original Message - 
 From: MexicoDoug [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: Meteorite Mailing List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
 Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2007 9:05 PM
 Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] H2 or L2 CLASS METEORITES


  I was thinking about this today and I have not had time to research
it.
 
  Hello Steve,
 
  I hope you can do some research sometime, Steve.  As H and L are
  thought
  to be two unique and real parent bodies, your question can be stated
  alternately:
 
  Were there any places on the H parent body or the L parent body that
did
  not experience the thermally-induced alteration characteristic of
  unequilibrated chondrites 3, and if so, did any residue from them
reach
  earth and drop meteorites?
 
  I think the answer is no.  Harry McSween explains that on these parent
  bodies, especially with reference to the onion-skin model of asteroids,
  the
  incubation caused by radioactive disintegration warmed the whole of the
  parent body uniformly enough to cook all of our H- and L-chondrites
enough
  according to 'current' understanding.  But that doesn't mean chance
could
  have thermally isolated or provided a shady heat sink somewhere on the
  surface where the legendary H2 or L2 could have been protected from its
  mother planetoid.
 
  Carbonaceous chondrites meteorites show 2 and essentially 1 not
  because
  they were heated, but rather because of their setting of primordial
  material, like celestial cementing that formed them, altered them to
  varying
  degrees with water, but not the heat on the H- and L- assumed to be
larger
  parent bodies.
 
  Note since there are just two parent bodies here, it is easy to write
off
  the possibility of H2 and L2 just by saying, these bodies were simply
too
  warm for this to occur.  If you calculate an asteroid diameter to
explain
  the H3-6 distributions we know, for example, you can say how big the
  parent
  body was, and once you say how big it was, you can argue by its thermal
  properties how it all got warm and sufficiently metamorphic.
 
  But this is all still conjecture.  The University of Chicago is always
in
  need of a few good men!!  Go Steve!!
 
  Best Wishes and Best Health,
  Doug
 
  - Original Message - 
  From: steve arnold [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
  Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2007 5:57 PM
  Subject: [meteorite-list] H2 or L2 CLASS METEORITES
 
 
  Hi list.I was thinking about this today and I have not
  had time to research it.Are there any H2 or L2 class
  meteorites that have been classified?This is a real
  must thread for me.Any help would be welcome.
 
 
 
 
  steve arnold,chicago
 
  Steve R.Arnold,chicago,Ill,Usa!!
Collecting Meteorites since 06/19/1999!!
www.chicagometeorites.net
Ebay I.D. Illinoismeteorites

[meteorite-list] Minerals within Meteorites

2007-03-29 Thread Cj ..

In addition to meteorites, does anyone collect the minerals found within 
meteorites?


Cj - 3432

Nothing in life is to be feared. It is only to be understood ...

_
The average US Credit Score is 675. The cost to see yours: $0 by Experian. 
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Re: [meteorite-list] H2 or L2 CLASS METEORITES

2007-03-29 Thread MexicoDoug

Mike (2), Looks like I just learned a lot tonight - in fact type 1
actually is more severely altered by water!  So scratch my PS, and thanks
for the comment.  If you read the text, though, you will see that type 3
(as far as I can see doesn't mean no alteration (as he explicitly stats with
aqueous), so I think that still leave the door open.

Wow, now it finally makes sense when comparing my CM2 to my CV3 - those
CM2's always didn't make sense to me...

Best, Doug



- Original Message - 
From: MexicoDoug [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: tett [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Meteorite Mailing List
meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2007 7:43 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] H2 or L2 CLASS METEORITES


 Hi Mike,

 In light of Jeff's post I'd tend to yield if I were in an argument and
just
 agree.  But if the purpose is to get a feel for what is happening and why,
 it's more fun to keep these ideas alive.

 Scientists can make conventions, and it is very hard to keep conventions
 written in stone.  Until a new stone causing them to go back to the
drawing
 board.  The purpose of my post was to complement your ideas and get an
 understanding of the processes.  If the scientists want to define 3.0 as
the
 lowest and take into consideration a well thought out scheme, that's fine.
 Then, someone, somewhere, will come up with something that doesn't fit
some
 class and it will be worth $1000/gram and have everyone buzzing.

 Yielding with a good fight, and remembering the 4 billion year old rocks
 found in Australia,
 Doug

 PS as to McSween's chart, I think that is a red herring.  After all, if
you
 were to interpret it literally as you do, type I carbonaceous would be
 more altered by water than type 2!!

 - Original Message - 
 From: tett [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: MexicoDoug [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Meteorite Mailing List
 meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
 Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2007 7:31 PM
 Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] H2 or L2 CLASS METEORITES


  Doug,
 
  Does petrologic grade 3, in essence, mean little to no thermal
alteration?
  If so, then there can not be a type 2 even with a nice heat sink to
 protect
  these primordial chondrules.  In fact, McSween's chart on pg 63 2nd ed.
  shows type 3 as neither aqueous altered or thermally altered.  However,
he
  does mention that these classifications are simplifications and intended
 to
  represent a range of alteration.  Why we now have LL3.7's etc.
 
  Although I have not found this plainly stated, I believe the intent of
the
  classification system was that H3.0 or L3.0 or LL3.0 are thermally
 unaltered
  and hence have pristine baby fresh chondrules.
 
  The parent bodies for the carbonaceous chondrites did not experience the
  same temperatures leading to thermal alteration of their chondrules.  At
  least, I guess this is so.
 
  Cheers,
 
  Mike Tettenborn
 
 
  - Original Message - 
  From: MexicoDoug [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  To: Meteorite Mailing List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
  Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2007 9:05 PM
  Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] H2 or L2 CLASS METEORITES
 
 
   I was thinking about this today and I have not had time to research
 it.
  
   Hello Steve,
  
   I hope you can do some research sometime, Steve.  As H and L are
   thought
   to be two unique and real parent bodies, your question can be stated
   alternately:
  
   Were there any places on the H parent body or the L parent body that
 did
   not experience the thermally-induced alteration characteristic of
   unequilibrated chondrites 3, and if so, did any residue from them
 reach
   earth and drop meteorites?
  
   I think the answer is no.  Harry McSween explains that on these
parent
   bodies, especially with reference to the onion-skin model of
asteroids,
   the
   incubation caused by radioactive disintegration warmed the whole of
the
   parent body uniformly enough to cook all of our H- and L-chondrites
 enough
   according to 'current' understanding.  But that doesn't mean chance
 could
   have thermally isolated or provided a shady heat sink somewhere on the
   surface where the legendary H2 or L2 could have been protected from
its
   mother planetoid.
  
   Carbonaceous chondrites meteorites show 2 and essentially 1 not
   because
   they were heated, but rather because of their setting of primordial
   material, like celestial cementing that formed them, altered them to
   varying
   degrees with water, but not the heat on the H- and L- assumed to be
 larger
   parent bodies.
  
   Note since there are just two parent bodies here, it is easy to write
 off
   the possibility of H2 and L2 just by saying, these bodies were simply
 too
   warm for this to occur.  If you calculate an asteroid diameter to
 explain
   the H3-6 distributions we know, for example, you can say how big the
   parent
   body was, and once you say how big it was, you can argue by its
thermal
   properties how it all got warm and sufficiently metamorphic.
  
   But

Re: [meteorite-list] H2 or L2 CLASS METEORITES

2007-03-29 Thread tett


Doug,

I think in this debate there is no clear winner.  You did yield but perhaps 
too easily.  Like you said, a chondrite could be found that is even more 
pristine than the current most pristine LL3.0 and then, besides sell it for 
$1000/gram, what do we do?


The convention system is a little hard to understand and could be simplified 
but I kinda like it the way it is.


As for the 4 billion year old ausie rocks, my 4.03 billion year old CANADIAN 
acasta gneiss is still the oldest found terrestrial rock to date.  My little 
25 gram chip sits contently amongst a pair a 7 year old Guatemalan lava 
rocks from Mount Pacaya.


Cheers,

Mike


- Original Message - 
From: MexicoDoug [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: tett [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Meteorite Mailing List 
meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com

Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2007 9:43 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] H2 or L2 CLASS METEORITES



Hi Mike,

In light of Jeff's post I'd tend to yield if I were in an argument and 
just

agree.  But if the purpose is to get a feel for what is happening and why,
it's more fun to keep these ideas alive.

Scientists can make conventions, and it is very hard to keep conventions
written in stone.  Until a new stone causing them to go back to the 
drawing

board.  The purpose of my post was to complement your ideas and get an
understanding of the processes.  If the scientists want to define 3.0 as 
the

lowest and take into consideration a well thought out scheme, that's fine.
Then, someone, somewhere, will come up with something that doesn't fit 
some

class and it will be worth $1000/gram and have everyone buzzing.

Yielding with a good fight, and remembering the 4 billion year old rocks
found in Australia,
Doug

PS as to McSween's chart, I think that is a red herring.  After all, if 
you

were to interpret it literally as you do, type I carbonaceous would be
more altered by water than type 2!!

- Original Message - 
From: tett [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: MexicoDoug [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Meteorite Mailing List
meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2007 7:31 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] H2 or L2 CLASS METEORITES



Doug,

Does petrologic grade 3, in essence, mean little to no thermal 
alteration?

If so, then there can not be a type 2 even with a nice heat sink to

protect

these primordial chondrules.  In fact, McSween's chart on pg 63 2nd ed.
shows type 3 as neither aqueous altered or thermally altered.  However, 
he

does mention that these classifications are simplifications and intended

to

represent a range of alteration.  Why we now have LL3.7's etc.

Although I have not found this plainly stated, I believe the intent of 
the

classification system was that H3.0 or L3.0 or LL3.0 are thermally

unaltered

and hence have pristine baby fresh chondrules.

The parent bodies for the carbonaceous chondrites did not experience the
same temperatures leading to thermal alteration of their chondrules.  At
least, I guess this is so.

Cheers,

Mike Tettenborn


- Original Message - 
From: MexicoDoug [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: Meteorite Mailing List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2007 9:05 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] H2 or L2 CLASS METEORITES


 I was thinking about this today and I have not had time to research

it.


 Hello Steve,

 I hope you can do some research sometime, Steve.  As H and L are
 thought
 to be two unique and real parent bodies, your question can be stated
 alternately:

 Were there any places on the H parent body or the L parent body that

did

 not experience the thermally-induced alteration characteristic of
 unequilibrated chondrites 3, and if so, did any residue from them

reach

 earth and drop meteorites?

 I think the answer is no.  Harry McSween explains that on these 
 parent

 bodies, especially with reference to the onion-skin model of asteroids,
 the
 incubation caused by radioactive disintegration warmed the whole of the
 parent body uniformly enough to cook all of our H- and L-chondrites

enough

 according to 'current' understanding.  But that doesn't mean chance

could

 have thermally isolated or provided a shady heat sink somewhere on the
 surface where the legendary H2 or L2 could have been protected from its
 mother planetoid.

 Carbonaceous chondrites meteorites show 2 and essentially 1 not
 because
 they were heated, but rather because of their setting of primordial
 material, like celestial cementing that formed them, altered them to
 varying
 degrees with water, but not the heat on the H- and L- assumed to be

larger

 parent bodies.

 Note since there are just two parent bodies here, it is easy to write

off

 the possibility of H2 and L2 just by saying, these bodies were simply

too

 warm for this to occur.  If you calculate an asteroid diameter to

explain

 the H3-6 distributions we know, for example, you can say how big the
 parent
 body was, and once you say how big it was, you can argue by its thermal

Re: [meteorite-list] IMPACT ICE AGES [WAS: Abstract: EL3 Chondrite (not Aubrite)NorthwestAfrica 2828]

2007-03-29 Thread E.P. Grondine

Hi Sterling, all - 

A brief summary of the end of the last ice age, which
is set out in depth in Man and Impact in the Americas:

1)Earlier there are warm currents off the west coast
of today's Canada. The Lenape were hunting sea turtle
there. These warm currents resulted in snow in today's
Canada, snow which reflected the Sun's heat back into
space, and the Earth got colder. 

2)An impact created the Alaskan and Siberian mucks,
and changed the currents in the North Pacific.  Colder
water now came down from further north, cooling the
current off the coast of Canada. Less snow on Canada,
more sunlight absorbed, the Earth warmed.

This is pretty much what the physical evidence shows,
and pretty much what the peoples remembered. I can't
speak beyond that: 10,000 years ago.  

What I can say about the earlier ice ages is that you
have to consider that the land which bounded those
early currents may have changed.

Finally, mt DNA shows the Iroquoian and Algonquin
peoples crossed Beringia earlier. Beringia was not
there later.

All this (in detail) and much much more in Man and
Impact in the Americas, and list members can contact
me off list for the special deal for a signed copy. I
hope those who obtained their copies in Tucson are
enjoying them, and I hope I will be able to write a
little more about the peoples and meteorites soon,
having covered the peoples and impacts in the book.
But then hell, I still need to write my Tucson thank
you note to everyone.

good hunting, 
Ed

--- Sterling K. Webb [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

 Hi, list, and E.P.
 
 who said:
  The present ice age is not going to return...
 [due to]
  a massive impact at the end of the last ice age
 [which
  altered currents]...
 
 The problem with this theory is that the current
 mild
 spell (which is NOT the end of the ice age) is
 mediated
 by warm midlevel currents (which do not seem to need
 an extraordinary explanation). Full glaciation is
 the
 result of the absence of these currents. If impacts
 are
 involved in any way (and they may be), they would
 produce
 coolings (and help ice ages) rather than preventing
 or
 ending them (or, more correctly, making them
 milder).
 
 The planet has long eons during which natural
 ice
 does not accumulate or persist more than momentarily
 anywhere on the planet at any time of the year.
 Ever.
 Often this greenhouse age lasts for many 10's or
 even
 100's of millions of years. During these times, the
 ocean
 bottom is anaerobic because the oceans do not
 circulate,
 because their bottom layers are the warmest level of
 the
 oceans, being highly saline. The temperature
 differential
 from equator to pole is much less than we are
 accustomed
 to, and the planet as a whole is much warmer than
 the
 maddest dreams of global warmists.
 
 In an Ice Age, the oceans circulate in short
 time
 scales (1000 years), the bottom waters are the
 coldest
 layers of the ocean, the sediments are aerobic. The
 temperature differential from equator to pole is,
 well,
 pack an extra sweater if you visit Antarctica. There
 are
 substantial portions of the planet where ice can be
 found
 at any time of the year. If this sounds oddly
 familiar,
 this is because this is the familiar world which we
 presently live in. This (look around you) is what an
 ice age is. This is an Ice Age, nor are we out of
 it.
 
 How'd it get that way?
 
 About 15 mya (million years ago), a serious
 cooling
 trend began. East Antarctica acquired the beginnings
 of
 its ice sheet 14 mya, the first ice in Antarctica in
 many ten's
 of millions of years. The earliest glaciers in
 Alaska show
 up 9 mya. West Antarctica started its ice sheet 6.5
 mya.
 The first South American glaciers appear 5.5 mya.
 Due to
 the uptake of water by ice, sealevels declined
 during
 this time.
 
 At 3.25 mya, cyclical glaciation world-wide
 (what most
 folks call ice-ages) began. Sealevels dropped
 sharply,
 and cooling became more intense. At 2.4 to 2.2 mya,
 the
 cooling trend steepened again. Another outcome of
 The Ice is global declines in the water content of
 the
 atmosphere (the cold trap), and world-wide droughts
 result after about 2.0 to 1.8 mya.
 
 About 800,000 years ago (Australasian tektite
 impact?), the cooling trend steepened more
 drastically.
 By 700,000 years ago, the North Polar Sea Ice
 persisted
 through the summer, thus becoming permanent (as if
 there were such a thing).
 
 We can see more detail in the last 128,000
 years,
 of course, and it presents a fascinating picture:
 128,000 to 115,000 ya (years ago) was a long
 interglacial or warm spell like today, one of the
 longest warm spells. It was very slightly warmer
 that it is today, which is the horrible state all
 the
 global warmists all fear, 2 to 4 degrees warmer than
 today. However, it was still a full blown ice age
 with
 all the ice age markers present: ice caps, glaciers,
 year-round sea ice, and so forth.
 At 115,000 ya, there was a false

[meteorite-list] Iron streams?

2007-03-29 Thread E.P. Grondine

Hi all - 

I was just contemplating the possibility of a
fragmented iron asteroid making repeated passes by the
Earth, and so I am wondering:

how do the compositions of Meteor Crater (canyon
diablo, odessa?), Campo de Cielo, and Sikote Alin
compare?

I am also wondering, has anybody ran 1950 DA's (hope I
got that name right - think that's the iron asteroid
that's supposed to show up here 800 years from now or
so) orbital elements backward in time?

good hunting,
Ed


 

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Re: [meteorite-list] Space junk re-entry just misses Chilean jet liner

2007-03-29 Thread AL Mitterling

One has to just love Harvey Nininger. A man very much ahead of his time. 
Though there are more aircraft in the air today, and they fly at higher 
altitudes than in Nininger's time, there are also many more automobiles 
these days. Best!


--AL

Nininger Moment #17 - Air Pilots and Meteor Hazards

During Nininger's time a number of airpilots reported having to take 
evasive steps to prevent collisions with falling meteors. One such 
newspaper reported an startling account of how a resourceful pilot 
battled a shower of meteors by making a serious of dips and swerves to 
avoid the incoming falling meteors saving himself, his eleven 
passengers, as well as the aircraft. One other pilot was said to have 
dipped his right wing to avoid a similar collision of a meteor which 
happened in Nebraska. Yet another pilot near Cheyenne Wyoming said he 
narrowly escaped injury when en-countering one of those pestiferous 
fiery projectiles which threaten to side swipe him from the left. He 
ducked, however and the missile sailed by, leaving him unharmed.


From the Standpoint of Nininger who had been studying meteoritic events 
and falls and spending much time at it, he considered  the reports 
humorous at best. Nininger reasoned that there were about  two thousand 
times more automobiles on the ground than airplanes in the air. Meteors 
reaching the lower atmosphere where these pilots saw these events would 
certainly reach the ground also, yet at that time no recorded automobile 
had been struck. A highly reported case happening in Crawfordville, 
Indiana had been discredited by scientists who investigated the matter. 
Nininger stated that you would expect one thousand automobile impacts 
for every one aircraft strike.


The stories were even really more incredible for another reason. 
Astronomers know that the fall of a meteor is an event most often seen 
in the higher atmosphere. Only two exceptions were noted where a meteor 
came closer to the ground than 4 miles. The vast majority of them 
extinguishing before they come within ten miles of the ground. Nininger 
stated that in other words, the meteor, or the light resulting from a 
meteorite's [meteoroids] encounter with the Earth's atmosphere is 
limited to the region of the stratosphere, far above  any height ever 
reach by airplanes of that day in ordinary flying.


Nininger knew of the fall of those cited above and concluded that the 
second pilot who thought he saw the meteor below him, plotted the meteor 
height at the burnout point at about 17 miles high, above the 
northeastern New Mexico soil. The second pilot who saw the same meteor 
fall was slightly more than a hundred miles from it at its nearest 
approach. The pilot over Nebraska that dipped his wing to avoid 
collision was 68 miles south of the line over which the dreaded missile 
was speeding at an elevation of approximately 20 miles.


Nininger concluded that pilots are no less reliable in such matters than 
are ground
observers, but the fact is that no one is able to judge the distance 
from him of a bright, dazzling light. He concluded that pilots 
apparently share the ignorance of the general public as the to the 
behavior of meteorites. Nininger stated that hundreds of other examples 
could be cited similar to the high school super- intending who told him 
exactly where a meteorite had landed in the neighboring field. From 
where he stood he was confident and pointed out the fall location. 
Fortunately, he knew the hour and minute of the fall and gave an 
eloquent description of the phenomenon, which sounded familiar to 
Nininger, as the story had been told by observers from all the way where 
they stood to where the meteorite had landed some 350 miles away


It is absolutely impossible for any single observer to judge the 
distance of a meteor. It's location can be determine only by a crossline 
survey. To this, pilots might contribute considerable information if 
they would take account of their exact location upon sighting and 
determine with their instruments the exact direction and altitude of the 
point where the meteor vanishes. Also recording the angle of decent 
would prove helpful. A pilots observation using these methods would be 
more than helpful than a person on the ground without any instruments to 
record what they see. Nininger also stated that at that time no report 
from an airpilot had ever been used to calculate the fall of a 
meteorite. He believed however that with his methods being noted that 
such reports could be very valuable.



The Nininger Moments are articles or books written originally by Harvey 
Nininger and put into a consolidated form by Al Mitterling. Some of the 
items written in the moments might be old out dated material and the 
reader is advised to keep this in mind.


--AL Mitterling

Chris Peterson wrote:

So far, I've heard nothing to make me think that anything from space, 
natural or otherwise, came within a few kilometers of this plane. Is

Re: [meteorite-list] Missed Meteorites Hunter/ Aid

2007-03-29 Thread Matthias Bärmann

Hi Aziz  list,

I understand that an Algerian jail isn't the place one wants to stay longer 
than necessary. And it shouldn't be the right place for a person who only wants 
to go hunting for meteorites - what still is one of the more innocent 
activities on our planet today. 

I hope and wish very much that Mohamed Aid will be free again soon and will be 
able to return back to his house, family and friends.

All best,

Matthias Baermann
  - Original Message - 
  From: Alhyane Abdelaziz 
  To: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com 
  Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2007 4:17 PM
  Subject: [meteorite-list] Missed Meteorites Hunter/ Aid


  Dear List,
  There in Morocco, was a very good friend to most of us, he is Mohamed Aid, 
the MOROCCO METEORITES MAN, this honorable guy went to Algeria to get some 
stones, but unfortunatly was arested by Algerian Melitary and he is in jail 
now, I tried myself to get some news about him, but nothing made a large smile 
on my face, just disapointing and being so sad.
  Most of very rare stones, Lunar, Martian ... were purchased from this poor 
guy.
  To those whom know Mohamed Aid, please pray for him to getting back home, or 
at least write some words, they may encourage him when returns to us, his inbox 
is desabled and can not receive emails.
  Cheers
  Aziz



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  Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at Yahoo! Games. 


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Re: [meteorite-list] Missed Meteorites Hunter/ Aid

2007-03-29 Thread M come Meteorite Meteorites

Thanks God, have ended to spam the list and in private
shipping tons of emails with different emails

Matteo

--- Alhyane Abdelaziz [EMAIL PROTECTED] ha
scritto:

 Dear List,
 There in Morocco, was a very good friend to most of
 us, he is Mohamed Aid, the MOROCCO METEORITES MAN,
 this honorable guy went to Algeria to get some
 stones, but unfortunatly was arested by Algerian
 Melitary and he is in jail now, I tried myself to
 get some news about him, but nothing made a large
 smile on my face, just disapointing and being so
 sad.
 Most of very rare stones, Lunar, Martian ... were
 purchased from this poor guy.
 To those whom know Mohamed Aid, please pray for him
 to getting back home, or at least write some words,
 they may encourage him when returns to us, his inbox
 is desabled and can not receive emails.
 Cheers
 Aziz
 
  
 -
 Be a PS3 game guru.
 Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and
 previews at Yahoo! Games.
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M come Meteorite - Matteo Chinellato
Via Triestina 126/A - 30173 - TESSERA, VENEZIA, ITALY
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sale Site: http://www.mcomemeteorite.it 
Collection Site: http://www.mcomemeteorite.info
MSN Messanger: spacerocks at hotmail.com
EBAY.COM:http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/mcomemeteorite/






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Re: [meteorite-list] Tennessee fall picture on postcard on ebay.

2007-03-29 Thread Joe

That is a brenham pallasite, I already have that same PostCard.
Joe Kerchner
illinoismeteorites.com

- Original Message 
From: ensoramanda [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Robin Galyan [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2007 5:33:48 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Tennessee fall picture on postcard on ebay.

The picture is of H O Stockwell raising the Brenham Pallasite in 1949.  
This picture features in Ellis L Pecks book Space Rocks and Buffalo 
Grass, which tells a great story about the history of the Brenham strewn 
field.  Well worth getting.
Ellis L Peck and Myron Kimberly (not shown in that picture) were the 
other two helping to raise the meteorite but it was Stockwell who spent 
many years trawling the fields with his wheelbarrow and detector.  
Quote..Some day we will have electronic instruments with a seat, so 
that ground can be covered more easily. 

I think there are still some guys doing something similar today I 
believe :-)

He found over 2733 kg in all but made very little out of his hunting as 
in the 40s and 50s interest in meteorites was at a low.In the end he 
accepted a modest offer from the local Greensburg Chamber of Commerce, 
who, I believe still display it today.

Graham Ensor, nr Barwell UK

Robin Galyan wrote:

 on ebay is a postcard showing excavation of a supposed 1000lb 
 meteorite in TN.   appears possibly 1930's-1940s cant tell for sure.
 http://cgi.ebay.com/Old-Postcard-of-1000-Pound-Meteorite-Found-in-Tenn_W0QQitemZ120099552758QQcategoryZ20236QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

 But in the usgs met database I dont find any from Greensburg where it 
 was supposedly found.The database in fact for TN only has one real 
 large puppy,   the Cosby's Creek find from 1837.   Two big chunks,  
 one 907KG (first) one 50.8 (found later).   

 So in tracking these two,   I find some at the TCU (m104.4) collection 
 and some at the Nat. Museum of History.

 So...   does anyone have any further information on what might be 
 called the Greensburg fall,  or on the cosby's creek fall?

 Thanks.
 Robin
 Knoxville, TN

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[meteorite-list] meteorite coins and other ridiculous wastes of time

2007-03-29 Thread Thaddeus Besedin

List, 
  Do we need Franklin Mint-esque coins to hype the insuperable wonder of actual 
meteoritic material free of made-to-order home shopping network (no trademark) 
gimmick? 
  These rank amongst the greatest achievements of Mike Farmer, capitalist of 
little self-control and imagination. Give us rocks, and that's it: you sell 
rocks. Collectors can become humorously obsessive when all reference to our 
target interests are accepted. Coins will distract from oxidation, reduction, 
recrystallization, and chondrules.
  -Thaddeus Besedin

 
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Re: [meteorite-list] Abstract: EL3 Chondrite (not Aubrite) NorthwestAfrica 2828

2007-03-29 Thread M come Meteorite Meteorites

unfortunately all analysis say this material I have
here is not a EL but a Aubrite...is not possible have
all from the world, dear USA people

Matteo

--- E.P. Grondine [EMAIL PROTECTED] ha scritto:

 Hello Sterling - 
 
 The present ice age is not going to return.  The
 currents of the Pacific Ocean were altered by a
 massive impact at the end of the last ice age, and
 most likely that impact was what ended it.
 
 The important point here is how long NWA meteorites
 have been accumulating, and as you point out it has
 been a relatively short period.
 
 Ed
 E.P. Grondine
 Man and Impact in the Americas
 $34.95 at amazon, or contact me off list 
 
 --- Sterling K. Webb [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 cglobal.net wrote:
 
  Hi, All,
  
   an ancient fluvial and/or acidic lacustrine
  environment...
  
  Most people think of the Sahara as an ancient,
  primordial environment. It's a relatively new
  feature.
  
  The Sahara was a well-watered mixed forest and
  glassland temperate environment, with lakes and
  many rivers (whose ancient courses are still
 visible
  in many places) 14,000 years ago and more.
  
  There was plentiful game and a large human
  population.
  The NE Sahara seems to have desertified first,
  driving
  humans into the Nile Valley. By 8 to 10 thousand
  years ago, it was a dry grassland and the lakes
 and
  rivers were vanishing rapidly. The Sahara grows
  from its center, where the bulk of the sand is
  generated
  that flows out to make the Great Sand Sea. The
  process
  is on-going and the remains of vast Roman
  plantations
  can be found 100 miles or more into the Sand that
  were
  thriving and productive 1600 years ago! North
 Africa
  was the Breadbasket of the Roman Empire, green
  and growing.
  
  Like so many deserts, it is unlikely to revert to
 a
  paradise again when the present Ice Age resumes
  after
  this interglacial, because of the smothering
 effect
  of
  the Sand. The Amazon Rain Forest, another
 temporary
  Interglacial abnormality, will likely recover from
  the
  damage done by its runaway forestation and revert
 to
  the vast rolling Sea of Grass it was 12 to 16
  thousand
  years ago, when things get back to normal.
  
  Any meteorite in the Sahara need not be highly
  ancient to be completely weathered out. One sees
  statements that completely weathered NWA's must
  have terrestrial ages of  40 to 50 thousand years.
  They would IF the Sahara had always been as dry
  as it is, but it hasn't been. They need only be
 old
  enough to have been exposed during the wet
 times.
  
  This one seems to have sat in the lake bottom for
  a long time, though, for all those changes. Still,
 I
  doubt it's more than 20,000 years old, tops, and
  it could be much younger. Chondrites don't last
  that long in water!
  
  
  Sterling K. Webb
 

-
  - Original Message - 
  From: Jeff Kuyken [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  To: Meteorite List
  meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
  Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2007 1:39 AM
  Subject: [meteorite-list] Abstract: EL3 Chondrite
  (not Aubrite) 
  NorthwestAfrica 2828
  
  
  Hi all,
  
  Thought some may find this abstract that I just
  found interesting.
  
 

http://adsabs.harvard.edu/cgi-bin/nph-bib_query?bibcode=2006AGUFM.P51E1247K
  
  Cheers,
  
  Jeff
  
 

--
  
  Title:
  EL3 Chondrite (not Aubrite) Northwest Africa 2828:
  An Unusual
  Paleo-meteorite Occurring as Cobbles in a
  Terrestrial Conglomerate
  
  Authors:
  Kuehner, S. M.; Irving, A. J.; Bunch, T. E.;
 Wittke,
  J. H.
  
  Publication:
  American Geophysical Union, Fall Meeting 2006,
  abstract #P51E-1247
  
  Publication Date:
  12/2006
  
  Abstract:
  Although we recently classified NWA 2828 as an
  aubrite [1], our examination
  of new material (now comprising over 120 stones
  totaling 27 kg) requires
  revision of that classification. New information
 on
  the find site in Algeria
  indicates that these stones were excavated from a
  subsurface deposit, and we
  have found terrestrial rhyolite pebbles and sandy
  matrix attached to several
  NWA 2828 stones (see images at
  http://www.ess.washington.edu/meteoritics).
  Thus this is a rare example of a paleo-meteorite
 or
  'fossil' meteorite. Some
  stones contain sparse (5 vol.%) but very distinct
  round, radial pyroxene
  chondrules (up to 3 mm across), as well as
 rounded,
  fine-grained aggregates
  (up to 6 mm across) rich in either enstatite or
  sodic plagioclase. Remnant
  Na-Al-Si-rich glass is present within cavities in
  chondrules, both between
  enstatite blades and in annular zones. The matrix
  contains pervasive 0.2-0.5
  mm cavities with coatings of calcite and minor
  halite and gypsum. Iron
  sulfate (after troilite), jarosite, an
 inhomogeneous
  (possibly amorphous)
  phase rich in Fe, Cr, Si, Ca, Ti, P, S and Cl,
 minor
  native sulfur and
  silica also are present, and brown Fe-rich

Re: [meteorite-list] H2 or L2 CLASS METEORITES

2007-03-29 Thread Dave Freeman mjwy


Dear Steve;
Check the updated pages in your Meteorites A to Z
For new list members, it is quite a useful book to determine 
classification information.

It was authored by our own list members Anne Black and the Jensen brothers!
I cherish my signed copy that brings me luck!
DF

steve arnold wrote:


Hi list.I was thinking about this today and I have not
had time to research it.Are there any H2 or L2 class
meteorites that have been classified?This is a real
must thread for me.Any help would be welcome.




steve arnold,chicago

Steve R.Arnold,chicago,Ill,Usa!!
 Collecting Meteorites since 06/19/1999!!
 www.chicagometeorites.net
 Ebay I.D. Illinoismeteorites





The fish are biting. 
Get more visitors on your site using Yahoo! Search Marketing.

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Re: [meteorite-list] Tennessee fall picture on postcard on

2007-03-29 Thread Robin Galyan

Many thanks to several of you profound students of the heavenly rocks,   you 
are all right on the button!   Yes,  there are several other postcards like 
that one that are properly identified,   but of course none have the detailed 
information like you all have presented me.Makes me want to really go to 
Kansas and see if I still have any farming friends out thereand take my 
detector of course.

Now, on the other topic I presented...Does anyone have any information 
about the Cosby Creek Fall?Any samples?   Are they ever traded?
Any information about how they were found?   

What about the Harriman finds? 

Im interested as you can see mostly in finds in East TN.  

Thanks again,

Robin
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[meteorite-list] OT - Insulting my service at the president's pleasure

2007-03-29 Thread ValparInt

 
Help me out here. What does this diatribe have to do with meteorites?
 
Paul
 
 
American presidents are expendable - what do you think elections do? Longer  
terms possible in congress are preferable for the purpose of long-term  
law-mongering, the work of professional politicians - lobbying does the  
talking, 
and legislation is the architecture of social order and political  identity. 
Democratic political economy itself can have no central political apex  without 
contradicting democratic ideals. 
Social contracts are mutual.  
It is common for naive nationalists blah blah blah blah  blah.




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[meteorite-list] Email to Walter Branch

2007-03-29 Thread Maria Haas

Hello Everyone,

Two of my emails to Sabrina through Walter's email have bounced. If the rest of 
you who are sending good wishes are also getting bounced, please feel free to 
forward the mails to me. I'd be happy to print them and put 'em in the mail to 
them.

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Re: [meteorite-list] meteorite coins and other ridiculous wastes of time

Is this a joke? If not, then, well, take a chill pill
and show me how many Lunar and Martian meteorites you
have brought to the world! 
My god, and some say that I am arrogant. It seems you
are outnumbered on this one, since I have sold them to
more than 100 members of this list, why don't you call
them all idiots for buying something that they liked.
Michael Farmer
--- Thaddeus Besedin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 List, 
   Do we need Franklin Mint-esque coins to hype the
 insuperable wonder of actual meteoritic material
 free of made-to-order home shopping network (no
 trademark) gimmick? 
   These rank amongst the greatest achievements of
 Mike Farmer, capitalist of little self-control and
 imagination. Give us rocks, and that's it: you sell
 rocks. Collectors can become humorously obsessive
 when all reference to our target interests are
 accepted. Coins will distract from oxidation,
 reduction, recrystallization, and chondrules.
   -Thaddeus Besedin
 
  
 -
 It's here! Your new message!
 Get new email alerts with the free Yahoo! Toolbar.
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Re: [meteorite-list] Missed Meteorites Hunter/ Aid

Aid Mohhamed is a nice guy, and a friend of mine, and
he NEVER sent an email to list list. 
Michael Farmer
So perhaps the endless spams to this list were from
you, not Aid.
--- M come Meteorite Meteorites
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Thanks God, have ended to spam the list and in
 private
 shipping tons of emails with different emails
 
 Matteo
 
 --- Alhyane Abdelaziz [EMAIL PROTECTED] ha
 scritto:
 
  Dear List,
  There in Morocco, was a very good friend to most
 of
  us, he is Mohamed Aid, the MOROCCO METEORITES MAN,
  this honorable guy went to Algeria to get some
  stones, but unfortunatly was arested by Algerian
  Melitary and he is in jail now, I tried myself to
  get some news about him, but nothing made a large
  smile on my face, just disapointing and being so
  sad.
  Most of very rare stones, Lunar, Martian ... were
  purchased from this poor guy.
  To those whom know Mohamed Aid, please pray for
 him
  to getting back home, or at least write some
 words,
  they may encourage him when returns to us, his
 inbox
  is desabled and can not receive emails.
  Cheers
  Aziz
  
   
  -
  Be a PS3 game guru.
  Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and
  previews at Yahoo! Games.
 __
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http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
  
 
 
 M come Meteorite - Matteo Chinellato
 Via Triestina 126/A - 30173 - TESSERA, VENEZIA,
 ITALY
 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sale Site: http://www.mcomemeteorite.it 
 Collection Site: http://www.mcomemeteorite.info
 MSN Messanger: spacerocks at hotmail.com

EBAY.COM:http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/mcomemeteorite/
 
 
   
 
   
   
 ___ 
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 http://it.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html
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Re: [meteorite-list] Missed Meteorites Hunter/ Aid

Aid Mohhamed is a nice guy, and a friend of mine, and
he NEVER sent an email to list list. 
Michael Farmer
So perhaps the endless spams to this list were from
you, not Aid.
--- M come Meteorite Meteorites
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Thanks God, have ended to spam the list and in
 private
 shipping tons of emails with different emails
 
 Matteo
 
 --- Alhyane Abdelaziz [EMAIL PROTECTED] ha
 scritto:
 
  Dear List,
  There in Morocco, was a very good friend to most
 of
  us, he is Mohamed Aid, the MOROCCO METEORITES MAN,
  this honorable guy went to Algeria to get some
  stones, but unfortunatly was arested by Algerian
  Melitary and he is in jail now, I tried myself to
  get some news about him, but nothing made a large
  smile on my face, just disapointing and being so
  sad.
  Most of very rare stones, Lunar, Martian ... were
  purchased from this poor guy.
  To those whom know Mohamed Aid, please pray for
 him
  to getting back home, or at least write some
 words,
  they may encourage him when returns to us, his
 inbox
  is desabled and can not receive emails.
  Cheers
  Aziz
  
   
  -
  Be a PS3 game guru.
  Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and
  previews at Yahoo! Games.
 __
  Meteorite-list mailing list
  Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
 

http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
  
 
 
 M come Meteorite - Matteo Chinellato
 Via Triestina 126/A - 30173 - TESSERA, VENEZIA,
 ITALY
 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sale Site: http://www.mcomemeteorite.it 
 Collection Site: http://www.mcomemeteorite.info
 MSN Messanger: spacerocks at hotmail.com

EBAY.COM:http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/mcomemeteorite/
 
 
   
 
   
   
 ___ 
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 http://it.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html
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Re: [meteorite-list] Missed Meteorites Hunter/ Aid

Aid Mohhamed is a nice guy, and a friend of mine, and
he NEVER sent an email to list list. 
Michael Farmer
So perhaps the endless spams to this list were from
you, not Aid.
--- M come Meteorite Meteorites
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Thanks God, have ended to spam the list and in
 private
 shipping tons of emails with different emails
 
 Matteo
 
 --- Alhyane Abdelaziz [EMAIL PROTECTED] ha
 scritto:
 
  Dear List,
  There in Morocco, was a very good friend to most
 of
  us, he is Mohamed Aid, the MOROCCO METEORITES MAN,
  this honorable guy went to Algeria to get some
  stones, but unfortunatly was arested by Algerian
  Melitary and he is in jail now, I tried myself to
  get some news about him, but nothing made a large
  smile on my face, just disapointing and being so
  sad.
  Most of very rare stones, Lunar, Martian ... were
  purchased from this poor guy.
  To those whom know Mohamed Aid, please pray for
 him
  to getting back home, or at least write some
 words,
  they may encourage him when returns to us, his
 inbox
  is desabled and can not receive emails.
  Cheers
  Aziz
  
   
  -
  Be a PS3 game guru.
  Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and
  previews at Yahoo! Games.
 __
  Meteorite-list mailing list
  Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
 

http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
  
 
 
 M come Meteorite - Matteo Chinellato
 Via Triestina 126/A - 30173 - TESSERA, VENEZIA,
 ITALY
 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sale Site: http://www.mcomemeteorite.it 
 Collection Site: http://www.mcomemeteorite.info
 MSN Messanger: spacerocks at hotmail.com

EBAY.COM:http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/mcomemeteorite/
 
 
   
 
   
   
 ___ 
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 http://it.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html
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[meteorite-list] pondering the displayed position versus angle of descent

2007-03-29 Thread Michael Murray


Hi all,
When studying the photos of the 10-ton Morito iron, as it is  
displayed in Palacio de Mineria, I'm wondering if it is displayed in  
the position in which it fell to the ground, or would one be inclined  
to think it would have came down on a fair angle (between 30 and 60  
degrees to vertical?  I like how it is displayed, don't get me  
wrong.  I think it's very impressive to see a nose cone shaped  
meteorite displayed with nose down.  (Please, that is not a dig at  
anyone out there displaying them sitting on their top).  For me, when  
I can see one nose down, it makes it easier to visualize it coming in  
on it's final leg of the journey.  I can almost see the fire and  
flames coming off the trailing edge.  : )


The thing is, I'm just pondering the angle of the larger stones as  
they are being displayed.  When I look at pictures of Ahnighito for  
example (I haven't seen it in person), I'm inclined, because of some  
of the features I think I see in the pictures, to believe it could be  
resting on one of its vertical sides.  And then again, if it was  
coming in at a pretty good angle of descent, how it is displayed may  
be closer to the position it was actually in when it touched down.   
What a thump that stone must have made when it hit.


Now to see if I can find out what ever happened to the four pieces of  
Long Island 1,100 lb Stony.  I think it would be interesting to try  
to figure out how it was falling given the four pieces put together.   
Anyone seen Long Island?  Anyone?  Anyone?


Mike




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Re: [meteorite-list] pondering the displayed position versus angle ofdescent

2007-03-29 Thread Chris Peterson

Even strongly oriented, 10 tons isn't enough mass to allow an iron 
meteorite to land carrying any of its original velocity. In other words, 
it was probably falling straight down when it hit (no fire either, I'm 
afraid). Its acquired orientation may have favored it falling cone down, 
but it might well have been tumbling and therefore landed on any face.


Chris

*
Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com


- Original Message - 
From: Michael Murray [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2007 10:14 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] pondering the displayed position versus angle 
ofdescent




Hi all,
When studying the photos of the 10-ton Morito iron, as it is 
displayed in Palacio de Mineria, I'm wondering if it is displayed in 
the position in which it fell to the ground, or would one be inclined 
to think it would have came down on a fair angle (between 30 and 60 
degrees to vertical?  I like how it is displayed, don't get me  wrong. 
I think it's very impressive to see a nose cone shaped  meteorite 
displayed with nose down.  (Please, that is not a dig at  anyone out 
there displaying them sitting on their top).  For me, when  I can see 
one nose down, it makes it easier to visualize it coming in  on it's 
final leg of the journey.  I can almost see the fire and  flames 
coming off the trailing edge.  : )


The thing is, I'm just pondering the angle of the larger stones as 
they are being displayed.  When I look at pictures of Ahnighito for 
example (I haven't seen it in person), I'm inclined, because of some 
of the features I think I see in the pictures, to believe it could be 
resting on one of its vertical sides.  And then again, if it was 
coming in at a pretty good angle of descent, how it is displayed may 
be closer to the position it was actually in when it touched down. 
What a thump that stone must have made when it hit.


Now to see if I can find out what ever happened to the four pieces of 
Long Island 1,100 lb Stony.  I think it would be interesting to try 
to figure out how it was falling given the four pieces put together. 
Anyone seen Long Island?  Anyone?  Anyone?


Mike


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Re: [meteorite-list] Tennessee fall picture on postcard on