Re: [meteorite-list] Carnacas smoke-trail photos
Chris -- The seismic measurement is of a 20-21 GJ event. The Russian formulas for scaling crater energy, developed from their work with the various sizes of the Sikhote-Alin craters, would make it about 18 GJ. The ground at Carancas is not merely wet soil, it is wet rocky soil, a different kettle of resistance. You can see the strata in the walls of the crater. You specify a 5 GJ event, but your 10 ton and 1500 m/s example would have 11.25 GJ, not the 5 GJ you specifiy. Even a 5 GJ event would be 500 joules per gram of meteorite when it only takes 100 joules per gram to powder even harder terrestrial rock. The actual energy of the 10 ton, 1500 m/s example would be 1125 joules per gram of meteorite, very close to the energy required to completely melt ten tons of rock. Of course, that's assuming all the energy is released within the impactor and so, is only true for the leading portion of the impactor. As the crater evolves, it takes its share of the energy away. The heat of vaporization for most earthly rocks is around 18,000 joules per gram of rock. That's the figure used to calculate vaporization for underground bomb blasts. Silica is quite tough; it takes 22,000 joules per gram. Meteoritic material with a lot of dissolved iron would also be hard to vaporize, but after much Googling I can't find a value, so I will be scientific and assume it's similar to the terrestrial average. (Anybody know the actual figure?) To be vaporized by a 21-22 GJ impact, a one ton impactor would need ~6500 m/s impact velocity. In fact, for any rock impactor to be vaporized, it needs to convert 18,000 joules of KE to heat for each gram, so roughly 6000 m/s is the speed needed to vaporize any rock on impact, regardless of its size. That's a high velocity to get all the way to the surface. Sterling K. Webb - - Original Message - From: Chris Peterson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 9:49 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Carnacas smoke-trail photos Hi Michael- As a physicist (and not on the scene), my instinct is simply to perform some simple calculations to get some sense of what the various possibilities are. Assuming wet soil, which seems like what the crater was formed in, it requires about 5 GJ (~1 ton TNT) to produce a crater that size. That might reasonably be created by a 2 meter diameter, 10 ton stone impacting at 1.5 km/s. Under those conditions, the impactor would be largely converted to dust, but there would be little vaporization. A lot of water could be vaporized, which would explain the cloud that was seen, but there wouldn't be enough residual heat to boil water that refilled the crater, or even make it hot. Of course, it could have been a smaller object falling faster, or even a rather large object (~5 meter diameter) falling at a 200 m/s terminal velocity. The crater type would range from an explosive impact crater to a simple excavated hole. Distinguishing between these extremes will require getting soil samples from around the crater extending at least a few hundred meters, as well as collecting detailed measurements of the crater to determine its precise shape. Unfortunately, the conditions don't seem ideal for conducting this kind of research. Personally, I wouldn't be optimistic about finding any large body in the crater, unless the actual impact was subsonic. One question involving the fireball: did the impact occur simultaneously with the end of the fireball (which would imply a hypersonic impact of a small body), or did the impact occur a minute or more after the fireworks (which would suggest a low speed impact by a larger body)? Anyway, keep up the good work, and collect whatever data you can. I hope that the fireball was caught on a DoD satellite, and that the light curve will be released. That would greatly assist in analyzing the nature of the parent body. Chris * Chris L Peterson Cloudbait Observatory http://www.cloudbait.com - Original Message - From: Michael Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Chris Peterson [EMAIL PROTECTED]; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 6:59 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Carnacas smoke-trail photos Chris, it is a hell of a crater, at least 13 meters in diameter, more than one meter of uplift, looks identical to Meteor Crater to me, on a much smaller scale. There in fact does seem to be shocked material at the crater, I found only inside and just outside the crater, large pieces of compacted sandstone, yet there is no sandstone there, it seems to have solidified on the impact, everything else is more like soft mud. Large, and I mean larger pieces of sod, weighing at least 40 or 50 kilograms were thrown more than 50-100 meters, and smaller dirt clod debris thrown up to 15o meters in all directions. This is
Re: [meteorite-list] Peru's Geological Institute: Crater WhereMeteorite Landed is to Disappear in 2 Months
Apparently Director Nuñez del Prado does not believe in PUMPS. It would seem that, in Peru, geologists are not familiar with digging holes. (How do they mine there without digging holes?) They will retrieve the meteorite without any attempt to extract the water from the crater. They will use scuba divers? Well, in a few months time, the crater will be gone, everybody will stop pestering them, and the Geological, Mining and Metallurgical Institute can go back to its siesta! Or perhaps, he too is a victim of journalistic understanding? Sterling K. Webb - Original Message - From: Darren Garrison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteorite List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2007 12:56 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Peru's Geological Institute: Crater WhereMeteorite Landed is to Disappear in 2 Months http://www.livinginperu.com/news-4827-environmentnature-perus-geological-institute-crater-where-meteorite-landed-is-disappear-2-months (LIP-ir) -- Peru's Geological, Mining and Metallurgical Institute (INGEMMET) announced today that the crater left by the meteorite that landed in a small town in Puno, Peru would disappear in two or three months. Experts estiamted that the crater would be gone within this time because of the accumulation of dirt and water in the hole itself. They stated that the accumulation would be due to the rainy season this region of Peru is experiencing. Director of Geology for Peru´s INGEMMET, Hernando Nuñez del Prado, stated that the roof which was to be built could keep the crater safe from the intense rain. He stated that the rain would increase the river's activity, thus causing it to directly affect the crater. There will be no evidence that a meteorite had landed there, said Nuñez del Prado. The specialist said he was sorry because he knew that locals wanted the crater to be a tourist attraction. Nuñez del Prado requested that no unauthorized person get close to the area where the meteorite had landed. He explained that the next two months should be dedicated to a serious investigation and a scientific study of the area. After thesestudies are done, the specialist stated that scientists would search for and retrieve the meteorite which is several meters below the earth. In addition, he explained that an attempt to extract the water from the crater would not be made because it would be impossible. He stated that the earth was saturated with water and the crater would always be full. __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Determination of a main mass at Carancas
Drill some holes using portable wide bore angular well drilling or core sampling equipment, then lower a submersible fluxgate magnetometer and take readings. I read in Mr. Gregory's post's that some of this meteorite dust was collected with magnets. Therefore, the main mass should have a strong magnetic field. __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Carefully read - Threats from Mr. Gregory then drawn your own conclusions
Matteo, Please post. Thanks again. Randall BTW, what size stone would you like? __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] AD: ebay auctions ending soon!
Hello List! I have some ebay auctions ending in a few hours: *** RARE!!! Meteorite Northeast Africa 001 (Lunar) ***: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=190156952845 *** Meteorite Yurtuk (AHOW) - 0.087g ***: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemrd=1item=190156952895 *** Meteorite Dar al Gani 400 (ALUN-A) - 0.148g***: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemrd=1item=190156953196 *** Meteorite Dar al Gani 400 (ALUN-A) - 0.632g***: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemrd=1item=190156971747 There are more auctions. Nice Sikhote-Alin fragments and other meteorites. All can be seen here: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZsvassiliev Thanks! Sergey - Sergey Vasiliev U Dalnice 839, Prague 5, 15500 Czech Republic -- http://www.sv-meteorites.com http://impactites.net http://systematic-mineralogy.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Dr. Richard Daniels is a pseudonym for Randall Gregory, my way of not asking people to post for me
XXX, This is critical, I'll try to post but if it doesn't make it could you send it to someone that will post. I know you want to stay out of the middle. I reviewed the report sent in by Mr. Farmer today and then I asked my Peruvian wife to her to call my friends in Desaguadero to find out what the situation is. I read Mike's field report and he had mentioned that they started to pump out the water in the crater and I was curious to know if they found the meteorite. This is the story as my wife is relating to me after she talked to my friend. Major Victor Anaya Barrientos of the Peruvian National Police located in the town of Desaguadero. Apparently, Mike and his associated went to the town of Desaguadero and used their method of posting flyers and soliciting citizens to sell them meteorites.They told people that the meteorite pieces were very very valuable and they would pay good money for any samples. I guess they made offers on a per gram basis that sent these people into a frenzy. They never went to the municipality and asked for any kind of permission. And they never made any contacts with scientists or researchers in Peru. Local citizens swarmed to the site to look for pieces and almost caused a riot. Apparently, the Spanish speaking person with Mike told the people of the community that there was a big meteorite in the hole and it was worth alot of money. This is the equivalent of starting a revolution. The people gathered at the municipality demanding that the government extract the meteorite. The mayor of the city complied under duress, and started to pump out the water. Meanwhile, news of this revolution went from the local to the national level. Local people were upset as they expected the city to find this million dollar meteorite that Mike and his friends told them. This caused so many problems with the municipality that the Minister of Interior at the national level has issued an order to close the site declaring that the site government property. The site now has a 24 hour police guard and everyone is forbidden from entering the site. Mike never realized the consequences of his actions. The reason he and his friends were harassed was the police believed that they were trafficantes or traffickers. The police were entirely correct in their assessment, and gave a message to Mike that they wanted him and his friends to leave. The damage he caused might be irreparable. I intend on visiting the site in a short time to see what the situation is and report back to the list. I will try to work with my colleagues in Peru and Bolivia, the Universities to organize an effort to extract the meteorite as a National Treasure for the people of Peru. I believe this meteorite can be still be saved and the crater preserved. But now that the national government is involved, all my work at preservation might have been in vain. Right now, I am furious with Mike and his actions. No respect for people. I am also deeply offended when he called the Mayor and other Peruvian scientists stupid. Here is a man with a high school education calling college educated professionals stupid. He called Desaguadero a craphole. Yes, it is a very poor city high in the Andes and is no way plush as the area of Tuscon he lives in. He went in with his greedy little plan and hurt alot of people, while never trying to understand the culture or the people. Just criticism and a ton of negativity toward everything. The Peruvians are good, decent, hard-working, and religious people and I happy and proud to be associated with them. Besides the damage he caused in Desaguadero, I believe he tarnished the image of meteoritic community. It really makes me think, What is the definition of a professional meteorite hunter? I take responsibility for everything I say in this post and I am expecting criticism. After I read Mike's field report, I sent him an e-mail. I won't post it to the list, but it is available to anyone that wants to read it. I am now appealing to the meteoritic community of scientists to help me at a national level so our government can contact and assist the government of Peru in extracting this meteorite. Every meteorite has the potiential to harbor organic compounds or fossilized remains and should be studied. Give me leads or referrals is all I ask. Randall __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Carnacas smoke-trail photos
There is no such naming convention. Jeff At 01:03 AM 10/3/2007, Sterling K. Webb wrote: The name of the village closest to the crater site is CARANCAS, not Carnacas. Under the naming convention, the nearest named human settlement would end up as the name of the meteorite when all the dust settles, no? Let's all practice: CA - RAN - CAS. Sterling K. Webb - - Original Message - From: Michael L Blood [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Michael Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Chris Peterson [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Meteorite List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 11:33 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Carnacas smoke-trail photos Perhaps I am dumber than a bag of hammers, but I am confused Are Carnacas and Titicaca two separate falls Or one in the same? Is anyone else confused on this issue? Michael on 10/2/07 5:59 PM, Michael Farmer at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Chris, it is a hell of a crater, at least 13 meters in diameter, more than one meter of uplift, looks identical to Meteor Crater to me, on a much smaller scale. There in fact does seem to be shocked material at the crater, I found only inside and just outside the crater, large pieces of compacted sandstone, yet there is no sandstone there, it seems to have solidified on the impact, everything else is more like soft mud. Large, and I mean larger pieces of sod, weighing at least 40 or 50 kilograms were thrown more than 50-100 meters, and smaller dirt clod debris thrown up to 15o meters in all directions. This is a serious impact, I mean you can call it what you want, but with the uplift, the incredible debris field thrown to all sides, the huge size, and volume of the crater itself, certainly leads me to believe that the mass weighed many tons and is obviously in the hole under some meters of fallback debris. The locals report mushroom cloud lingered for more than a hour. As far as more pieces, this meterite came in over lake Titikaka, and if you have never seen this lake, it is HUGE! I would guess that as fragil as the meteorite is, that tons of debris fell off but would most likely have all fallen into the lake, or perhaps some on the mountains just inside of Bolivia. It is not populated there, and I assume from talking to most witnesses, that the large main mass, which was a massive ball of fire much larger and brighter than the Sun, caught everyones attention pretty well, and would be so bright that smaller pieces would be drowned out by the intensity of the main mass. That is what I think happened, surely many more pieces broke off but from where the main mass hit, back down the flightpath is nothing but swamps and high mountains for about 10 miles, then 15 miles of lake. Perfect for most material to be lost. Michael Farmer --- Chris Peterson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What remains to be determined is if this is actually a crater, or just a big splash. In the first case, some shocked material should show up, and I think it's likely that nothing is left in the bottom. If there really is a big meteorite at the bottom, then this probably isn't a crater in the usual sense (that is, produced by a large energy release as the parent body explodes/vaporizes). I don't believe I've seen anything credible to suggest that the water was actually boiling or steaming. It doesn't take much energy to make a hole this size in soft ground- probably around 100 kg TNT equivalent. And that's not enough to heat up that much water very much. So I expect that any apparent bubbling was nothing more than an effect of ground water filling in the new hole. If the recovered material is shocked fragments, it may be structurally quite different from the parent body. Chris * Chris L Peterson Cloudbait Observatory http://www.cloudbait.com - Original Message - From: Darren Garrison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 5:37 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Carnacas smoke-trail photos On Tue, 2 Oct 2007 15:54:57 -0700 (PDT), you wrote: Is it indeed possible that a mass of say 3-7 tons could cause such intense heat on impact? We think that the compression of the soil, in an instant to many meteors deep could also cause intense heating. Every person we interviewed decribed boiling water, lots of steam, and horrible sulfer type smell. The What I wonder is if maybe the pressure/heat could have caused dissolved gases to bubble out from the water? So it might not have been at a boiling temperature, but still bubbling/steaming? Too bad we don't have samples of the groundwater and soil from the area to see if there is anything weird/extensively poluted about it. Also odd, of course, is a fraglie, porus stone as you describe surviving to the ground big enough and fast enough to make the crater.
[meteorite-list] Rocks From Space Picture of the Day - October 3, 2007
http://www.spacerocksinc.com/October_3_2007.html ___ ** See what's new at http://www.aol.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Legal issues concerning Mike Farmer
Mike has publically accused me of commiting a crime and attempting to ruin my professional standing in a community of professionals by sending e-mails to a United States audience of professional people on a United States server. This is considered slander. I believe American laws apply regardless of where I reside. I am still an American citizen. Mr. Farmer can expect a summons when the lawyers have finished their legal research. Additionally, I will start legal action here in Peru for the crimes I believe that he comitted. Since he quelled my efforts to save the crater and meteorite by his actions, I am redirecting my efforts to this legal issue. To all of the following statements I have proof or a high degree of proof. Crime #1 tresspassing Failure to ask the owner's permission to trespass is considered a crime. I had negotiated to purchase the land the crater surrounding the crater, but not the crater itself in the interest of science. The land owner and I agreed to the price of $25,000. The deal was consumated with a hand shake. In Peru as in the United States it is considered a legal transaction. And anyone failing to ask permission is guilty of tresspassing under property right laws. I believe it is common practice for professional meteorite hunters to as permission first. I asked permission when I first arrived out of respect. It was this statement to Mr. Farmer when I told him I could have had him arrested for trespassing. That too is recorded in e-mail corrospondence with the list. Crime #2 Buying stolen property Mr. Farmer knew before-hand the police has meteorites and that these meteorite could have been considered stolen under both countries laws. A dated e-mail is in possession of the list-members. However, this presents a unique situation. After the meteorite struck, people called the police thinking that an airplane had crashed. People closest to the site started to complain of illness. The police gathered these strange gray fragments and took them back to the police station. Seven policemen started to complain of the same symptoms. They didn't know at the time what these fragments were or how dangerous they might be. If it had, in reality, been a nuclear powered satellite (if one even exists) these heroic police might be dead by now. It was the scientists from the Max Schreir Planetarium in Bolivia that asked the police if they could by some stones from them. It's quite possible that they sold others to the University of San Augustin in Arequipa, Peru.but I am unaware of any transaction. I purchased the large stone explaining to the police that I wanted to donate it to scientific instutions in Peru and the United States. They sold me a stone. Mr. Farmer solicited the police to sell him a stone. To this he has already admitted. Since he knew these were stolen from my e-mail. He had prior knowledge and was fully aware. To date, Mr. Farmer and I are the only two Americans to have stones from this fall. Crime #3 Conspiracy to commit Grand Larceny Mr. Farmer made suggestions to currently persons unknown (but will be found) of how the meteorite might be extracted at night, privately and without government support. This is conspiracy to comit grand larceny. His statement was reported to the police by a person of conscience. Although these people are poor, they have religion and are basically honest. He essentially admitted to the crime when he made the statement that the police wanted him to leave when he had purchased stones from them the day before. Mike was the goose that laid the golden egg. The price he paid the police has not been determined but it is expected to be quite large since the police already had a relative worth of the stones. Sidenote: If I was a policeman in Desag and a man was paying me money for rocks, I would protect this walking ATM and try to keep him safe and protected. I would also want to keep him around as long as possible. A bigger part of the problem is that it is believed that he posted flyers throughout the town, saying he would pay big money for rocks which is a common technique Mr. Farmer uses. His Columbia expedition stated that he posted hundreds of flyers. Upon reading the flyers, the dirt-poor people of Desaguadero literally ran to the crater to find rocks and swamed the scene. He also told people that there was a very valuable meteorite worth thousands and thousands of dollars buried in the crater. This in turn caused other people to protest the municpal offices, demanding the government dig out the meteorite. The mayor of Desaguadero tried to comply with the wishes of the people. Especially since this is an election year. It was a crude attempt at best, but nevertheless an attempt. This, almost full-scale uprising and protest drew the attention of the people of Puno. The regional government petitioned the Ministry of the Interior to declare the area government property. The property is now cordoned off and police guards posted. Last night on
Re: [meteorite-list] Dr. Richard Daniels is a pseudonym for RandallGregory, my way of not asking people to post for me
Mr. Randall, I think I'm not the only one on that list here, who has the feeling, that your posts are highly inconsistent. First we could read from you, that you're not sure about, that there is a main mass some down below in the soil at all and that the crater/pit should be preserved. We read, that the poor locals should profit from the finds made there, that all fragments collected and sold by locals without agreement of the land owner are stolen goods and how immoral it is to sell such goods on ebay. And that the best solution would be, that the meteorites and the crater would be property of the Peruvian state as national treasure + that the Peruvian scientists would be experienced enough to handle the case. In the same mails and later we read, that you not only have bought some material at a not directly generous price, but that you bought it from the local authorities, who had confiscated the material from people, who collected it illegally (according your own words). To give money to authorities to obtain secured material - hence either property of state or in custody of the state is a simple act of corruption. And contradicting your own moral standards you started immediately to fence those stones via ebay and to dealers like Matteo. After on the list was discussed, that there is a probability that the main mass could exist below the crater and Farmer/Karl/Ward travelled to the site, you showed an immediate eagerness to lead an initiative to excavate it. Now, when they entered the scene offering the locals - remember your own mails, who are poor and should profit from that situation - a much higher and adequate price for the material, which they collected than you did with your (seen from the collectors point of view) ridiculous price, you seem not to be delighted. And furthermore you condemn, that they sensitized the population about the importance of that case, in giving them a more adequate imagination that the possible main mass is more important than the crater and that it has a high value, which lead to the exact result, which you always wanted from the beginning on, but which you weren't able to accomplish, that the importance and the basic necessity to act was finally recognized on a national level. Instead to be happy about that, and also that the area is now protected by police from further looting, you call it now an irreparable damage. And with all respect, the questions about meteorites, you posed here on the list, give not directly an impression, that you're an expert in meteoritics, neither do I see, why you should be entitled for the all your work at preservation and not rather the Peruvian scientists, who - at least you expressed it so in one of your early mails - are in your opinion sufficiently trained to investigate that fall. So even if we let that strange issues from the private mails Farmer published here aside, the observer will see a remarkable bigotry in your emails and will most probably come to the conclusion, that your motivation isn't morale but profane greed. Regards, Martin -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Im Auftrag von Dr. Richard Daniels Gesendet: Mittwoch, 3. Oktober 2007 11:46 An: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Betreff: [meteorite-list] Dr. Richard Daniels is a pseudonym for RandallGregory, my way of not asking people to post for me XXX, This is critical, I'll try to post but if it doesn't make it could you send it to someone that will post. I know you want to stay out of the middle. I reviewed the report sent in by Mr. Farmer today and then I asked my Peruvian wife to her to call my friends in Desaguadero to find out what the situation is. I read Mike's field report and he had mentioned that they started to pump out the water in the crater and I was curious to know if they found the meteorite. This is the story as my wife is relating to me after she talked to my friend. Major Victor Anaya Barrientos of the Peruvian National Police located in the town of Desaguadero. Apparently, Mike and his associated went to the town of Desaguadero and used their method of posting flyers and soliciting citizens to sell them meteorites.They told people that the meteorite pieces were very very valuable and they would pay good money for any samples. I guess they made offers on a per gram basis that sent these people into a frenzy. They never went to the municipality and asked for any kind of permission. And they never made any contacts with scientists or researchers in Peru. Local citizens swarmed to the site to look for pieces and almost caused a riot. Apparently, the Spanish speaking person with Mike told the people of the community that there was a big meteorite in the hole and it was worth alot of money. This is the equivalent of starting a revolution. The people gathered at the municipality demanding that the government extract the meteorite. The mayor of the city complied under duress, and started to
[meteorite-list] Libyan Desert Glass For Sell
Dear List Member, I have an important Libyan glass lot for sell, approx 13 kg or 13000 Grams The large one is approx 2700 Grams. http://lorenzo.lorenzo.free.fr/ebayart/verre_Libyque/ If someone interested to buy, please contact me off list and let me know your best offer. Don't hesitate to contact me if any questions or requests. Best regards, Sincerely. Arnaud VB IMCA# 2093 --- E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tel. 06 13 24 09 84 --- __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Legal issues concerning Mike Farmer
Randall, I think you should stay away from the bottle and not pretend to be a lawyer. Mark __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Pultusk Wanted
Hello everyone, I am looking for 100-200 grams of Pultusk. Please e-mail privately price and descriptions. Clear Skies, Mark Bostick Kansas Meteorite Society www.meteoritearticles.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Legal issues concerning Mike Farmer
Randall, After all the personal attacks on Mike and his wife (that was TOTALLY uncalled for) it's too late for you to claim the moral high ground. You lost that battle. You are quite transparent and your motives quite clear. Your comments are all self-serving and the bottom line is... you only care about YOU. Dave From: Dr. Richard Daniels [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2007/10/03 Wed AM 06:09:41 CDT To: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] Legal issues concerning Mike Farmer Mike has publically accused me of commiting a crime and attempting to ruin my professional standing in a community of professionals by sending e-mails to a United States audience of professional people on a United States server. This is considered slander. I believe American laws apply regardless of where I reside. I am still an American citizen. Mr. Farmer can expect a summons when the lawyers have finished their legal research. Additionally, I will start legal action here in Peru for the crimes I believe that he comitted. Since he quelled my efforts to save the crater and meteorite by his actions, I am redirecting my efforts to this legal issue. To all of the following statements I have proof or a high degree of proof. Crime #1 tresspassing Failure to ask the owner's permission to trespass is considered a crime. I had negotiated to purchase the land the crater surrounding the crater, but not the crater itself in the interest of science. The land owner and I agreed to the price of $25,000. The deal was consumated with a hand shake. In Peru as in the United States it is considered a legal transaction. And anyone failing to ask permission is guilty of tresspassing under property right laws. I believe it is common practice for professional meteorite hunters to as permission first. I asked permission when I first arrived out of respect. It was this statement to Mr. Farmer when I told him I could have had him arrested for trespassing. That too is recorded in e-mail corrospondence with the list. Crime #2 Buying stolen property Mr. Farmer knew before-hand the police has meteorites and that these meteorite could have been considered stolen under both countries laws. A dated e-mail is in possession of the list-members. However, this presents a unique situation. After the meteorite struck, people called the police thinking that an airplane had crashed. People closest to the site started to complain of illness. The police gathered these strange gray fragments and took them back to the police station. Seven policemen started to complain of the same symptoms. They didn't know at the time what these fragments were or how dangerous they might be. If it had, in reality, been a nuclear powered satellite (if one even exists) these heroic police might be dead by now. It was the scientists from the Max Schreir Planetarium in Bolivia that asked the police if they could by some stones from them. It's quite possible that they sold others to the University of San Augustin in Arequipa, Peru.but I am unaware of any transaction. I purchased the large stone explaining to the police that I wanted to donate it to scientific instutions in Peru and the United States. They sold me a stone. Mr. Farmer solicited the police to sell him a stone. To this he has already admitted. Since he knew these were stolen from my e-mail. He had prior knowledge and was fully aware. To date, Mr. Farmer and I are the only two Americans to have stones from this fall. Crime #3 Conspiracy to commit Grand Larceny Mr. Farmer made suggestions to currently persons unknown (but will be found) of how the meteorite might be extracted at night, privately and without government support. This is conspiracy to comit grand larceny. His statement was reported to the police by a person of conscience. Although these people are poor, they have religion and are basically honest. He essentially admitted to the crime when he made the statement that the police wanted him to leave when he had purchased stones from them the day before. Mike was the goose that laid the golden egg. The price he paid the police has not been determined but it is expected to be quite large since the police already had a relative worth of the stones. Sidenote: If I was a policeman in Desag and a man was paying me money for rocks, I would protect this walking ATM and try to keep him safe and protected. I would also want to keep him around as long as possible. A bigger part of the problem is that it is believed that he posted flyers throughout the town, saying he would pay big money for rocks which is a common technique Mr. Farmer uses. His Columbia expedition stated that he posted hundreds of flyers. Upon reading the flyers, the dirt-poor people of Desaguadero literally ran to the crater to find rocks and swamed the scene. He also told people that there was a very valuable meteorite worth thousands and thousands of dollars buried in the crater. This in turn caused other people to protest
[meteorite-list] Oh, my!
http://www.cnn.com/2007/TECH/space/10/03/takei.asteroid.ap/index.html Asteroid renamed for 'Star Trek' actor NEW YORK (AP) -- A piece of outer space named for George Takei is in kind of a rough neighborhood for somebody who steers a starship: an asteroid belt.An asteroid between Mars and Jupiter has been renamed 7307 Takei in honor of the actor, best known for his role as Hikaru Sulu in the original Star Trek series and movies. I am now a heavenly body, Takei, 70, said Tuesday, laughing. I found out about it yesterday. ... I was blown away. It came out of the clear, blue sky -- just like an asteroid. The celestial rock, discovered by two Japanese astronomers in 1994, was formerly known as 1994 GT9. It joins the 4659 Roddenberry (named for the show's creator, Gene Roddenberry) and the 68410 Nichols (for co-star Nichelle Nichols, who played Lt. Uhura). Other main-belt asteroids have been named for science fiction luminaries Robert Heinlein and Isaac Asimov. The renaming of 7307 Takei was approved by the International Astronomical Union's Committee on Small Body Nomenclature. About 14,000 asteroid names have been approved by the panel, while about 165,000 asteroids have been identified and numbered, union spokesman Lars Lindberg Christensen said. Unlike the myriad Web sites that offer to sell naming rights to stars, the IAU committee-approved names are actually used by astronomers, said Tom Burbine, the Mount Holyoke College astronomy professor who proposed the name swap. This is the name that will be used for all eternity, he said. Burbine said he suggested Takei's name in part out of appreciation for his work with the Japanese American Citizens League and with the gay rights group Human Rights Campaign. Takei, a spokesman for HRC's Coming Out Project, was cultural affairs chairman of the JACL, and he was appointed to the Japan-U.S. Friendship Commission by former President Clinton. Takei has appeared on NBC's Heroes and appears regularly on Howard Stern's satellite radio show. Under the committee's policies, whoever discovers an asteroid has 10 years in which to propose a name. After that, the panel considers other suggestions, although it warns would-be namers to avoid anything in questionable taste and any names honoring political or military figures sooner than 100 years after their deaths. __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Carnacas smoke-trail photos
Hi Sterling- I don't place much faith in seismic data as an accurate estimator of impact size. It is poor at distinguishing between the energy dissipated at impact and the much larger energy dissipated in the atmosphere. And there are many uncertainties with respect to the efficiency of energy conversion during small impacts. I've got three well accepted models, and they vary over more than an order of magnitude in predicting the size of impactor in a case like this (but are much closer with respect to crater aspect ratio). Anyway, at this point these calculations are really just useful for estimating a reasonable range of possibilities for the impactor. Hopefully there is some real data out there somewhere. If all we ever have to work with is a little shocked material and a few witness reports, we'll probably never know what happened with any precision. Chris * Chris L Peterson Cloudbait Observatory http://www.cloudbait.com - Original Message - From: Sterling K. Webb [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Cc: Chris Peterson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2007 12:45 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Carnacas smoke-trail photos Chris -- The seismic measurement is of a 20-21 GJ event. The Russian formulas for scaling crater energy, developed from their work with the various sizes of the Sikhote-Alin craters, would make it about 18 GJ. The ground at Carancas is not merely wet soil, it is wet rocky soil, a different kettle of resistance. You can see the strata in the walls of the crater. You specify a 5 GJ event, but your 10 ton and 1500 m/s example would have 11.25 GJ, not the 5 GJ you specifiy. Even a 5 GJ event would be 500 joules per gram of meteorite when it only takes 100 joules per gram to powder even harder terrestrial rock. The actual energy of the 10 ton, 1500 m/s example would be 1125 joules per gram of meteorite, very close to the energy required to completely melt ten tons of rock. Of course, that's assuming all the energy is released within the impactor and so, is only true for the leading portion of the impactor. As the crater evolves, it takes its share of the energy away. The heat of vaporization for most earthly rocks is around 18,000 joules per gram of rock. That's the figure used to calculate vaporization for underground bomb blasts. Silica is quite tough; it takes 22,000 joules per gram. Meteoritic material with a lot of dissolved iron would also be hard to vaporize, but after much Googling I can't find a value, so I will be scientific and assume it's similar to the terrestrial average. (Anybody know the actual figure?) To be vaporized by a 21-22 GJ impact, a one ton impactor would need ~6500 m/s impact velocity. In fact, for any rock impactor to be vaporized, it needs to convert 18,000 joules of KE to heat for each gram, so roughly 6000 m/s is the speed needed to vaporize any rock on impact, regardless of its size. That's a high velocity to get all the way to the surface. Sterling K. Webb __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Bolide in Iraq?
Is anyone aware of a bolide event that might have occurred at 2130 GMT on 8 Aug 07 in the northern Iraq / southern Kurdistan region? A fireball, trailing a corkscrew shaped smoke trail was observed for 3-4 seconds travelling from South to North by the crew of a commercial aircraft. It is most likely that the aircraft was under fire from a surface to air missile, but there are some aspects that don't jive! Many thanks in advance. Jay Tate The Spaceguard Centre http://www.spaceguarduk.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Bolide in Iraq?
On Wed, 3 Oct 2007 14:55:15 +0100, you wrote: Is anyone aware of a bolide event that might have occurred at 2130 GMT on 8 Aug 07 in the northern Iraq / southern Kurdistan region? A fireball, trailing a corkscrew shaped smoke trail was observed for 3-4 seconds travelling from South to North by the crew of a commercial aircraft. Oh, great. Now Allah's joining the fight. __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Huge Rare Sale, Extra 15% Off - AD
Dear List Members, In celebration of finally being up and running and appear to have a solid Internet connection, I have loaded 160 eBay auctions today, all with Buy it Now (general descriptions below). I would like to extend an extra 15% discount to List members this week on the Buy it Now prices. Simply Click it, win it and then take the 15% off at time of payment, or email me ahead of time and I will discount the amount on the invoice I will send to you (if I send you a non-discounted invoice for the Buy it Now amount, send me an email and I will revise it). I also have 26 auctions ending in about 5 hours, many still at just 99 cents. Here are a few excellent deals that will end later today: Some auctions ending today: NWA 1195 Martian http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemrd=1item=180163785326ssPageName=STRK:MESE:ITih=008 NWA 4472 Lunar http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemrd=1item=180163793522ssPageName=STRK:MESE:ITih=008 NWA 4527 Martian (Almost out!) http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemrd=1item=180163793964ssPageName=STRK:MESE:ITih=008 NEA 001 Lunar http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemrd=1item=180163794491ssPageName=STRK:MESE:ITih=008 Buy it Now auctions loaded today: NWA 4587 Ungrouped Achondrite paired to NWA 011 NWA 4468 Primitive Martian (Awesome!!!) NWA 4590 Tamassint Angrite (Gorgeous and Fresh!) NWA 4473 Brecciated Diogenite, slices and whole stones (Lunar-Like) NWA 4527 Marian (Almost out) NWA 4528 H5 - 500g Lots NWA 4528 H5 - 1-kilo Wholesale Lots NWA 869 L4-6 - 1-kilo Lots Unclassifed Saharan - 2-kilo Lots To see all of my eBay auctions currently running, please click here http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault If you have any questions, please feel free to email me off list. NEW - NWA 2952, a CK4 Carbonaceous Chondrite Found in the Sahara Desert in 2005. This beautiful meteorite has a variety of colored chondrules and an abundance of CAI's imbedded in a greenish-gray matrix. A Total Known Weight of only 102 grams in a single stone is all there is of this example. Close-up image of variety of colorful chondrules: http://www.lunarrock.com/nwa2952/nwa2952a1.jpg Close-up image of CAI's and chondrules: http://www.lunarrock.com/nwa2952/nwa2952b1.jpg Available NWA 2952 CK4 Specimens: 5.754g cs, $175.00 http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/nwa2952/dsc1.jpg 5.45g cs, $165.00 http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/nwa2952/dsc2.jpg 4.758g cs, $155.00 http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/nwa2952/dsc3.jpg 4.342g cs, $140.00 http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/nwa2952/dsc4.jpg 4.186g cs, $135.00 http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/nwa2952/dsc5.jpg 4.162g ec, $133.00 http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/nwa2952/dsc6.jpg 4.132g cs, $136.00 http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/nwa2952/dsc7.jpg 3.928g ec, $130.00 http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/nwa2952/dsc8.jpg 3.364g cs, $114.00 http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/nwa2952/dsc9.jpg 3.304g ec, $112.00 http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/nwa2952/dsc00010.jpg 3.224g ps, $106.00 http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/nwa2952/dsc00011.jpg 2.47g cs, $86.00 http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/nwa2952/dsc00012.jpg 2.268g cs, $80.00 http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/nwa2952/dsc00013.jpg 2.102g cs, $74.00 http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/nwa2952/dsc00014.jpg 1.974g ec, $70.00 http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/nwa2952/dsc00015.jpg 1.062g ps, $37.00 http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/nwa2952/dsc00017.jpg 686mg ps, $27.00 http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/nwa2952/dsc00018.jpg 596mg polished fragment, $24.00 http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/nwa2952/dsc00019.jpg 432mg polished fragment, $17.00 http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/nwa2952/dsc00021.jpg 324mg ps, $13.00 http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/nwa2952/dsc00022.jpg cs - complete slice ps - part slice ec - end cut Thank you for looking, I hope you find that special deal you have been waiting for! Best regards, Greg P.S. Glad to be back to offer many rare and amazing meteorites I have been fortunate to acquire over the last few years. Greg Hupe The Hupe Collection NaturesVault (eBay) [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.LunarRock.com IMCA 3163 To see all of my eBay auctions currently running, please click here http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Rocks From Space Picture of the Day - Update
Rocks From Space Picture of the Day updated: http://www.spacerocksinc.com/RSPOD_2007.html Regards, Michael Johnson www.spacerocksinc.com www.sikhote-alin.org ** See what's new at http://www.aol.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Carancas
Hi all - Some topics: 1) The Soviet Union manufactured nuclear powered reconnaissance satellites. One fell in Canada some years back. I don't know where the cores from the rest are now - sorry, stroke. As Carancas is clearly not one of these, perhaps sulfuric acid fumes account for the illnesses. 2) Scaling laws are a poorly defined and for the most part classified. Digging out a good publicly available scaling law for my book Man and Impact in the Americas was tough, and I still don't know if I applied it correctly. The numbers I gave for impacts during man's evolution should be ball park accurate. Sterling, they're in the book. I wish I had been able to check them with you before publication. Sorry, stroke, you know. 3) I may not have the sequence right here, but it appears that the police seized what fragments they could from the people who had illegally collected them from the land owner's land. The money the police received from Mr. Farmer should go to the land owner, unless the fragments were collected elsewhere, or the collectors had permission to hunt. I believe that is how the law has evolved here, but I may be mistaken. 4) It strikes me that the appropriate course for Mike now would be to enlist the local people to try and recover those impossible fragments from along the flight path. 5) Governmental institutions is Peru move as slowly as those elsewhere. It would appear that the recovery will have to be a local effort, involving the mayor and the local people. Remember to dig a pit latrine nearby. 6) According to oral tradition, the area (specifically, on the road to Cuzco) was hit by fragments of Comet Encke around 580 CE, leading to the collapse of the Pukara (Man and Impact in the Americas, pages 224-226). Given the cometary source, I doubt if any fragments remain in the field there, but who knows? Of course, we'll all be entertained over the coming weeks by accounts from the field of how events progress. good hunting, E.P. Grondine Man and Impact in the Americas Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=listsid=396545469 __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] RFS Picture of the Day: Waver-thin slice of Tatahouine in Backlighting
Hello All, I would like to invite you to take a look at this fascinating, translucent, wafer-thin slice of the Tatahouine diogenite. I was thrilled to see and photograph this phenomenon called mosaicism, these 90° cleavages and all these readily recognizable crystal faces. This dazzling white arrowhead (looks like the bow of a ship) in the eight o'clock position probably represents the exact outlines of that part of a euhedral pyroxene crystal! Does anybody have any information about the nature of the dark bands that are visible not only in this backlit specimen but usually in all Tatahouine specimens? Shock darkening? Well, while we are at it: We usually thank Michael Johnson for all these beautiful pictures but have you ever thought about making a donation? Saying Thank you! is fine but webspace costs money! Michael added me to the contribution list today. See here: http://www.spacerocksinc.com/RSPOD_2007.html Well, my $20 won't make a huge difference - but 10x, 20x or 30x that amount by several list members will have an impact and we can thus make sure that Michael can continue letting us enjoy list members' out- standing photographic contributions!!! Best wishes, Bernd __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Test from MARSROX
Test __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Carnacas smoke-trail photos MIKE FARMER.
Michael; Thank you very much for sharing your experiences and reporting on the peru meteorite fall.This seems to be a very important event judging from your reports of heat,mushroom cloud and large sulphur outgassing from the impact.Wow! what an experience for the teenager who photographed the smoke trail and other events associated with this fall.A real dream come true for any meteorite enthusiast.Job well done by the teenager and especially by you and your entourage.Thanks. Best Regards;Herman Archer IMCA # 2770 ** See what's new at http://www.aol.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Carancas Meteorite photos....again!
Hi all, I'll try this one more timeposted it once already but folks seem more interested in discussing other peoples arguments than looking at some detailed shots of the actual meteorite. I obtained these photographs from a Bolivian Mineral dealer who seems to have been to the Carancas area and found several kilo's of the meteorite. Not sure exactly if he bought them or collected them near the crater or elsewhere further back down the strewnfield...they look very fresh.. Comparing them with others so far I think they look genuine. I would be glad of anyones comments on this 9.8g fragment. Here they are...hope this post isnt delayed like the others last night!! http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o43/LaburnumStudio/DSCN6903.jpg http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o43/LaburnumStudio/DSCN6902.jpg http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o43/LaburnumStudio/DSCN6901.jpg http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o43/LaburnumStudio/DSCN6899.jpg http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o43/LaburnumStudio/DSCN6898.jpg http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o43/LaburnumStudio/DSCN6897.jpg http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o43/LaburnumStudio/DSCN6894.jpg Graham Ensor __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Carancas meteorite - research paper #1 - Effects of meteorite dust on mucus membranes
Greetings, 1) I believe nobody in Carancas knew what impacted. Their first thought was that an airplane had crashed as did the people in Aplao, Chiclayo and Cusco. A normal and natural reaction. This is all they know, because sometimes airplane fly over. I am speculating. If it had been a nuclear-powered satellite, then the police from Desaguadero would be dead by now. Fair assumption? 2) Wrong assumption. The police collected them because people were getting sick. This is a very close-nit community, and they were trying to protect the people. In my opinion, they were heroic. 3) Yes, I agree. Mike is welcome back into Peru to volunteer his services to search for strewnfields as is any other person with legitimate interest. I've heard reports of other impacts in a 25 km radius and there may be quite a bit of other material. 4) Yes, thank you. :) I would like to add, that when my wife was pouring grains of meteorite dust from a bottle I bought from Justina. She said her nose felt like the stinging of a thousand little bees. (Spanish interpretation). Would anyone care to do analysis on the effects of this meteoric dust (vaporized and aerosolized) on mucusoal membranes. If so, what would be the minimum you would require for analysis? Include credentials please. I be happy to send some, just pay for shipping. Randall __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Carancas meteorite - research paper #1 - Effects of meteorite dust on mucus membranes
Greetings, 1) I believe nobody in Carancas knew what impacted. Their first thought was that an airplane had crashed as did the people in Aplao, Chiclayo and Cusco. A normal and natural reaction. This is all they know, because sometimes airplane fly over. I am speculating. If it had been a nuclear-powered satellite, then the police from Desaguadero would be dead by now. Fair assumption? 2) Wrong assumption. The police collected them because people were getting sick. This is a very close-nit community, and they were trying to protect the people. In my opinion, they were heroic. 3) Yes, I agree. Mike is welcome back into Peru to volunteer his services to search for strewnfields as is any other person with legitimate interest. I've heard reports of other impacts in a 25 km radius and there may be quite a bit of other material. 4) Yes, thank you. :) I would like to add, that when my wife was pouring grains of meteorite dust from a bottle I bought from Justina. She said her nose felt like the stinging of a thousand little bees. (Spanish interpretation). Would anyone care to do analysis on the effects of this meteoric dust (vaporized and aerosolized) on mucusoal membranes. If so, what would be the minimum you would require for analysis? Include credentials please. I be happy to send some, just pay for shipping. Randall __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Carancas Meteorite photos....again!
I can start to upload some digital photos of meteorite's in my possession if anyone would care to host. Randall On 10/3/07, ensoramanda [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, I'll try this one more timeposted it once already but folks seem more interested in discussing other peoples arguments than looking at some detailed shots of the actual meteorite. I obtained these photographs from a Bolivian Mineral dealer who seems to have been to the Carancas area and found several kilo's of the meteorite. Not sure exactly if he bought them or collected them near the crater or elsewhere further back down the strewnfield...they look very fresh.. Comparing them with others so far I think they look genuine. I would be glad of anyones comments on this 9.8g fragment. Here they are...hope this post isnt delayed like the others last night!! http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o43/LaburnumStudio/DSCN6903.jpg http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o43/LaburnumStudio/DSCN6902.jpg http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o43/LaburnumStudio/DSCN6901.jpg http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o43/LaburnumStudio/DSCN6899.jpg http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o43/LaburnumStudio/DSCN6898.jpg http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o43/LaburnumStudio/DSCN6897.jpg http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o43/LaburnumStudio/DSCN6894.jpg Graham Ensor __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Carancas or Titicaca? More data and a thin section of the stone
Hi, Jeff, List I used the word convention in the sense that it is conventional to do so, as most meteorites carry the name of a human settlement of some kind. Technically, it's the nearest place name that is unambiguously locatable that is required. http://www.meteoriticalsociety.org/bulletin/nc-guidelines.htm 3.1 Geographic features. A new meteorite shall be named after a nearby geographical locality. Every effort should be made to avoid unnecessary duplication or ambiguity, and to select a permanent feature such as a town, village, river, bay, cape, mountain or island which appears on widely used maps and is sufficiently close to the recovery site to convey meaningful locality information. In sparsely populated areas with few place names, less permanent features such as ranches or stations or, in extreme cases, local unofficial names of distinctive quality may be used, provided the latitude and longitude of the recovery site are well determined. The names of large geographic features such as continents, countries, provinces, states, and large counties should be avoided if names that are more specific are available, except as specified in §3.3 and §3.4. In general, the selected feature should be the closest such feature to the site of the recovery. If, for example, the name of the nearest town is already used, the meteorite should not be named for the next nearest town. In such a case, a different geographic feature (e.g., a stream) should be selected, if available (if not, §3.3 applies). However, the village of Carancas is such a feature and appears to be much closer to the crater than Lake Titicaca. Randall Gregory says the crater is virtually on the banks of the Lake, but it doesn't look that way on these maps. Maps of the locale can be found at this site: http://www.earthfiles.com/news.php?ID=1321category=Science The site also contains the full text of the INGEMMET initial report (but NOT all the pictures) which contains interesting data. There is an interview with Jose Machero, one of the authors of the INGEMMET report (in which he says that the water table there is one meter below grade). The full INGEMMET report, with more thin section photos than the above reference, including polarized views, can also be found at: http://www.ingemmet.gob.pe/ Go over to the right and click on the Carancas link. Some quotes from that report: Impact location Country Peru Region Puno ProvinceChucuito District Desaguadero CommunityCarancas Coordinates Lat: 16°39'52S Long: 69°02'38W Elev: 3 824 m a.s.l. General description of the phenomenon (Only anecdotic information based upon witnesses' declarations) Apparent displacement azimuth of the object: towards N030°E. The object was observed since it was at about 1 000 m from the earth surface. The object presented a strongly luminous head (white light) and a white smoky queue. No other objects were observed to fall after the main body. There was a strong explosion that was felt up to Desaguadero city 20 km from the impact site. Some window glasses of the Local Health Center (at 1 km from the site) were broken. The explosion sound lasts about 15 minutes (!) After the impact, boiling water was seen in the crater, and a smoke column was formed that lasts for several minutes. A sulfurous smell was reported there. General description of effects on ground The impact created a crater when collided with the soft ground (reddish brown soil). The crater is composed by a hole and an ejecta rim. The central hole became a pond, by infill with groundwater that crops out after the impact (figure 2). The following table gives the diameters and other measures of the geoform. N to S -- Pond 7.4 m -- Rim 13.3 m E to W -- Pond 7.8 m -- Rim 13.8 m The maximum rim height was 1 m above the original soil level, and was seen in the northern border. The photo of figure 2 is looking northward. Dispersal ejecta made by brown soil with grey patina (meteorite powder), up to 5 cm in diameter were found at 200 m from the impact point. Three days after the fall, water in the pond was 1 m below the original soil level. It presented turbid brown aspect, with pH = 7.8, temperature 17.9°C, conductivity 4000 milisiems, and total suspended solids 2000 ppm. (Measurements by Prof. Mario Soto, Univ. of Altiplano, Puno). Composition Thin and polished sections were prepared for petro-mineralogic determinations under optical microscope. The results revealed chondritic texture and a mineral composition including: Pyroxene 140% Olivine 20% Feldspar10% Pyroxene 210% Opaque minerals total about 20% and include: Kamacite 15% Troilite 5% Cromite traces Native Cu traces Sterling K. Webb -- - Original Message - From: Jeff Grossman
[meteorite-list] WAAAAAH! Mikey got a booboo
List, Defend your source, but don't ask questions as to his ethics. With Mike's impulse disorder evident, who indeed is nursing a bottle? Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=listsid=396545469 __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Lake Titicaca Meteorite - proposal for new name
Lake Titicaca is the highest navigable lake in the world located in the land of the Incas. This area is also the center of Peruvian Forklore. Oceanographer Jacques Yves Cousteau spent eight weeks using mini-subs to explore for a 2,000 lb. chain of gold thrown into the lake by the Incas to prevent it being taken from the Spanish. A new species of frog was found in the lake. A frog that never surfaces! In the year 2000, a huge ancient underwater temple was discovered measuring 660 ft. long by 160ft. wide dating back almost 1,500 years. Additonally, naming it Lake Titicaca allows Bolivia to share. It is right on the boarder (political). There is a saying in Peru about the lake. Peru has the titty and Boliva has the caca. :) A meteorite couldn't have hit in a more beautiful place. I propose Lake Titicaca meteorite. I also propose that the met-list votes on this. Then, would anyone like to support start the submission to the Meteoritical Society? Dr. Richard Daniels __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] News and Views in Peru
Hi, All, Beyond the views of Randall Richard Daniels Gregory on Mike Farmer, it seems that others in Peru are not happy with him. Taking no sides, just the messenger, folks. Here's a Peruvian news article: http://www.larepublica.com.pe/content/view/181193/30/ Here's a cleaned up machine translation: --- [Headline] They try to deal in pieces of the fallen meteorite [Subhead] A group of Americans came with this purpose to Carancas. The president of the Geophysical Institute of Peru (IGP), Ronald Woodman, denounced the group of Americans directed by Michael Farmer (famous searcher of meteors in the world) that tries to deal in remains of the meteorite that fell [down] in the locality of Carancas in the middle of the past September. They sneak in [literally, glide] to initiate the excavations to extract the remains at the border with Bolivia, since the meteorite fell [down] within one kilometer of the border with this country, Woodman declared. It [is] recounted that the group of five North Americans have come to the place with the support of the Police and that seemingly the settlers [villagers] negotiated with these merchants of meteorites. Ronald Woodman said that the cazameteoritos would be taking advantage of the ignorance of the settlers on the real value of the objects. There are not many in the world; they are valuable pieces for museums and collectors, as noted below. The facts: TRAFFIC. The citizen Michael Farmer sold a lunar fragment of approximately 1 kg found near to Agadir (Morocco) for 1.5 million dollars --- It would appear that entering the country from Bolivia, one mile away, with an international airport in nearby LaPaz, is inherently suspicious to some Peruvians. There is an implication (but no direct statement) that trafficing in meteorites is a shady quasi-legal affair, as there is much emphasis on the fact that Mike buys and sells them. I wish I knew what cazameteoritos means but the online translator won't translate it (nor the word caza either). Meteorite traders? Meteorite peddlers? Meteorite Con-men? Sterling K. Webb --- __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] News and Views in Peru
Sterling and All, Caza- chasers, hunters. Dirk Ross...Tokyo --- Sterling K. Webb [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, All, Beyond the views of Randall Richard Daniels Gregory on Mike Farmer, it seems that others in Peru are not happy with him. Taking no sides, just the messenger, folks. Here's a Peruvian news article: http://www.larepublica.com.pe/content/view/181193/30/ Here's a cleaned up machine translation: --- [Headline] They try to deal in pieces of the fallen meteorite [Subhead] A group of Americans came with this purpose to Carancas. The president of the Geophysical Institute of Peru (IGP), Ronald Woodman, denounced the group of Americans directed by Michael Farmer (famous searcher of meteors in the world) that tries to deal in remains of the meteorite that fell [down] in the locality of Carancas in the middle of the past September. They sneak in [literally, glide] to initiate the excavations to extract the remains at the border with Bolivia, since the meteorite fell [down] within one kilometer of the border with this country, Woodman declared. It [is] recounted that the group of five North Americans have come to the place with the support of the Police and that seemingly the settlers [villagers] negotiated with these merchants of meteorites. Ronald Woodman said that the cazameteoritos would be taking advantage of the ignorance of the settlers on the real value of the objects. There are not many in the world; they are valuable pieces for museums and collectors, as noted below. The facts: TRAFFIC. The citizen Michael Farmer sold a lunar fragment of approximately 1 kg found near to Agadir (Morocco) for 1.5 million dollars --- It would appear that entering the country from Bolivia, one mile away, with an international airport in nearby LaPaz, is inherently suspicious to some Peruvians. There is an implication (but no direct statement) that trafficing in meteorites is a shady quasi-legal affair, as there is much emphasis on the fact that Mike buys and sells them. I wish I knew what cazameteoritos means but the online translator won't translate it (nor the word caza either). Meteorite traders? Meteorite peddlers? Meteorite Con-men? Sterling K. Webb --- __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Lake Titicaca Meteorite - proposal for new name
Lake Titicaca is the highest navigable lake in the world located in the land of the Incas. This area is also the center of Peruvian Forklore. Oceanographer Jacques Yves Cousteau spent eight weeks using mini-subs to explore for a 2,000 lb. chain of gold thrown into the lake by the Incas to prevent it being taken from the Spanish. A new species of frog was found in the lake. A frog that never surfaces! In the year 2000, a huge ancient underwater temple was discovered measuring 660 ft. long by 160ft. wide dating back almost 1,500 years. Additonally, naming it Lake Titicaca allows Bolivia to share. It is right on the boarder (political). There is a saying in Peru about the lake. Peru has the titty and Boliva has the caca. :) A meteorite couldn't have hit in a more beautiful place. I propose Lake Titicaca meteorite. I also propose that the met-list votes on this. Then, would anyone like to support start the submission to the Meteoritical Society? Dr. Richard Daniels __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Question about shock veins...?
Hi, In the photos of the Carancas meteorite I posted recently it is obvious that it is full of shock veins. Mike Farmer also mentioned this characteristic in his pieces and that it had fragmented along some of these veins. My photographs show what may be a surface like this...or it could be crust. My question is...Could it be possible that the shock veins were produced as a direct result of the hypervelocity impact or is that not possibleare they much more likely to be formed in space during asteroid impacts. Stirling has posted lots of info regarding the energy and forces possibly involved...could this have happened and the fragments collected show this striated surface along shock veins as a result? ...check out the 3rd and last two photos to see this surfacereminds me of some of the marks on Sikhote alin shrapnel...but obviously formed by some other mechanism in this. http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o43/LaburnumStudio/DSCN6903.jpg http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o43/LaburnumStudio/DSCN6902.jpg http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o43/LaburnumStudio/DSCN6901.jpg http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o43/LaburnumStudio/DSCN6899.jpg http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o43/LaburnumStudio/DSCN6898.jpg http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o43/LaburnumStudio/DSCN6897.jpg http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o43/LaburnumStudio/DSCN6894.jpg Graham Ensor __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] QMIG update - sorry if this is a repeat post but I aint sure if it got thru...
Listoids www.qmig.org Update of news page only but more to follow... EMP of Tenham strewnfield seven happens today at JCU Rumblings that the EMP of the Birdsville Seven may even arrive soon... Maybe some more pictures later today I have to do a mark one eyeball comparison of a thin-section of a known lake Machattie that will be ready late today and of my Lake Machattie 2 - wait and see if they are paired or not ? Cheers __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Meteorites-- they give you wings
http://www.chicagometeorites.net/id44.html __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Dr. Daniels
Could we know the institution you did your PhD at? Just to verify and ascertain the validity of your character. Sent via the WebMail system at blackbearddata.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorites-- they give you wings
Gaos and Gams! Steve's Specialties! Sterling K. Webb --- - Original Message - From: Darren Garrison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteorite List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2007 4:06 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorites-- they give you wings http://www.chicagometeorites.net/id44.html __ __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] WAAAAAH! Mikey got a booboo
Thaddeus, Im sorry but I dont have time to read every post. Could you elaborate on your comments. Im curious about your opinion. Thanks, BE - Original Message - From: Thaddeus Besedin [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2007 2:20 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] WAH! Mikey got a booboo List, Defend your source, but don't ask questions as to his ethics. With Mike's impulse disorder evident, who indeed is nursing a bottle? Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=listsid=396545469 __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Dr. Richard Daniels is a pseudonym for RandallGregory, my way of not asking peo
My sentiments, exactly, Martin! Pete From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 13:24:33 +0200 Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Dr. Richard Daniels is a pseudonym for RandallGregory, my way of not asking people to post for me Mr. Randall, I think I'm not the only one on that list here, who has the feeling, that your posts are highly inconsistent. First we could read from you, that you're not sure about, that there is a main mass some down below in the soil at all and that the crater/pit should be preserved. We read, that the poor locals should profit from the finds made there, that all fragments collected and sold by locals without agreement of the land owner are stolen goods and how immoral it is to sell such goods on ebay. And that the best solution would be, that the meteorites and the crater would be property of the Peruvian state as national treasure + that the Peruvian scientists would be experienced enough to handle the case. In the same mails and later we read, that you not only have bought some material at a not directly generous price, but that you bought it from the local authorities, who had confiscated the material from people, who collected it illegally (according your own words). To give money to authorities to obtain secured material - hence either property of state or in custody of the state is a simple act of corruption. And contradicting your own moral standards you started immediately to fence those stones via ebay and to dealers like Matteo. After on the list was discussed, that there is a probability that the main mass could exist below the crater and Farmer/Karl/Ward travelled to the site, you showed an immediate eagerness to lead an initiative to excavate it. Now, when they entered the scene offering the locals - remember your own mails, who are poor and should profit from that situation - a much higher and adequate price for the material, which they collected than you did with your (seen from the collectors point of view) ridiculous price, you seem not to be delighted. And furthermore you condemn, that they sensitized the population about the importance of that case, in giving them a more adequate imagination that the possible main mass is more important than the crater and that it has a high value, which lead to the exact result, which you always wanted from the beginning on, but which you weren't able to accomplish, that the importance and the basic necessity to act was finally recognized on a national level. Instead to be happy about that, and also that the area is now protected by police from further looting, you call it now an irreparable damage. And with all respect, the questions about meteorites, you posed here on the list, give not directly an impression, that you're an expert in meteoritics, neither do I see, why you should be entitled for the all your work at preservation and not rather the Peruvian scientists, who - at least you expressed it so in one of your early mails - are in your opinion sufficiently trained to investigate that fall. So even if we let that strange issues from the private mails Farmer published here aside, the observer will see a remarkable bigotry in your emails and will most probably come to the conclusion, that your motivation isn't morale but profane greed. Regards, Martin -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Im Auftrag von Dr. Richard Daniels Gesendet: Mittwoch, 3. Oktober 2007 11:46 An: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Betreff: [meteorite-list] Dr. Richard Daniels is a pseudonym for RandallGregory, my way of not asking people to post for me XXX, This is critical, I'll try to post but if it doesn't make it could you send it to someone that will post. I know you want to stay out of the middle. I reviewed the report sent in by Mr. Farmer today and then I asked my Peruvian wife to her to call my friends in Desaguadero to find out what the situation is. I read Mike's field report and he had mentioned that they started to pump out the water in the crater and I was curious to know if they found the meteorite. This is the story as my wife is relating to me after she talked to my friend. Major Victor Anaya Barrientos of the Peruvian National Police located in the town of Desaguadero. Apparently, Mike and his associated went to the town of Desaguadero and used their method of posting flyers and soliciting citizens to sell them meteorites.They told people that the meteorite pieces were very very valuable and they would pay good money for any samples. I guess they made offers on a per gram basis that sent these people into a frenzy. They never went to the municipality and asked for any kind of permission. And they never made any contacts with scientists or researchers in Peru. Local citizens swarmed to the site to look for pieces and almost caused a
[meteorite-list] In defense of Mike
Mike made some mistakes. I think he realizes that sometimes certain techniques to obtain meteorites in some countries, will not work in others. I know he will be more careful when he travels. I believe Mike will now take the time to learn about the people that he deals with. With this knowledge, I'm certain he'll represent the meteorite community as a true professional. Dr. Richard Daniels __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] RFS Picture of the Day: Wafer-thin slice ofTatahouine in Backlighting
Hello List, Someone asked in a private mail: What's mosaicism? Here's an excellent explanation by O.R. Norton - it can be found in Cambridge Encyclopedia of Meteorites, p. 344: A characteristic of a mineral crystal seen microscopically under crossed polarizers in which extinction is not uniform but checkered into a mosaic pattern due to small irregularities within the crystal. This occurs when the crystal has been distorted by shock metamorphism. Mosaicism is an indicator of shock effects produced by an impacting body. I am glad someone asked this question as it may be the answer to my own question about those dark bands in Tatahouine: Does anybody have any information about the nature of the dark bands that are visible not only in this backlit specimen but usually in all Tatahouine specimens? Shock darkening? Best wishes, Bernd __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] In defense of Mike
Mike made some mistakes. I think he realizes that sometimes certain techniques to obtain meteorites in some countries, will not work in others. I know he will be more careful when he travels. I believe Mike will now take the time to learn about the people that he deals with. With this knowledge, I'm certain he'll represent the meteorite community as a true professional. Dr. Richard Daniels __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] News and Views in Peru
Hi, Dirk, Paco, List Thanks for pinning that down. Francisco wrote: But this articles sounds really offensive, with bad intention, in Spanish. Then English translation seems softer. I knew the article was critical, but tone is harder to catch, especially with an online translator in a language where your knowledge is sketchy (like mine of Spanish). I think that, in Mike's case, Meteorite Chaser is closer to the mark! A lot of hunters sit and wait, something he seems to hardly get a chance to do. Sterling K. Webb -- - Original Message - From: drtanuki [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Sterling K. Webb [EMAIL PROTECTED]; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2007 3:40 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] News and Views in Peru Sterling and All, Caza- chasers, hunters. Dirk Ross...Tokyo --- Sterling K. Webb [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I wish I knew what cazameteoritos means but the online translator won't translate it (nor the word caza either). Meteorite traders? Meteorite peddlers? Meteorite Con-men? Sterling K. Webb --- __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] FW: Good Auctions Ending Today! Highlighted Links For Your Pleasure!
From: michael cottingham [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2007 3:23 PM To: 'michael cottingham' Subject: AD: Good Auctions Ending Today! Highlighted Links For Your Pleasure! Hello everyone, SPECIAL NOTE! If you like inclusions and chondrules you should go for a walk through my ebay store and see what I added this week! Today, I have about 40 auctions ending, these were started out at 0.99 cents. Also, there are about 80 more auctions, some with buy it now and some with reduced opening prices. Also, there is a 20% off sale in my ebay store, running throughout the day. Try this link for soon to end items: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQfbfmtZ1QQsabfmtsZ1QQsascsZ1QQsassZmeteoriteQ2dco llector or http://stores.ebay.com/Voyage-Botanica-Natural-History Check These Out! A 47 gram Mesosiderite beauty! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemrd=1item=200156874066 A 49 gram beautiful slice of NWA 4475, price is at $1.80 ! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemrd=1item=200156874617 A good deal on an H5. NWA 4300, A big 314 gram piece, with polished face! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemrd=1item=200156875038 A 37 gram slice of Lahoma, Oklahoma, check out the inclusion in this one! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemrd=1item=200156876308 NWA 4482, PALLASITE Specimen please look, you wont be disappointed, 26 grams! Still at $4.80! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemrd=1item=200156879394 Slice of NWA 2690, Eucrite, A 9.87 gram beautiful slice. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemrd=1item=200156885811 A very lovely specimen of an EL3, NWA 2965, 36.68 grams. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemrd=1item=200156888489 SPECIAL SPECIMEN! A micro of a super rare fall from Sudan! This is a rarity. MALAKAL. You dont see this one too often, and it has fusion crust! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemrd=1item=200156956975 An Australian Classic! A 34.6 gram specimen of DALGETY DOWNS, Still a bargin price for someone! Comes with Monnig Collection Label! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemrd=1item=200156896574 A fantastic fusion crusted individual of SAU 001, 32 grams! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemrd=1item=200156897129 A rare H7, 2.06 gram slice of NWA 4229. One of the rarest meteorites out there http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemrd=1item=200156897813 A nice CV3 slice, still at 0.99 cents! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemrd=1item=200156898832 An R Chondrite, R3.8 to be exact, nice 6.76 gram specimen. Still a deal for someone. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemrd=1item=200156893752 A 28.34 gram, slice of Vyatka, the Russian meteorite! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemrd=1item=200156893470 Another great chance to add CALI, COLOMBIA to your collection This one is a part slice! Started at 0.99 cents! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemrd=1item=200156889587 The CHAVES, Howardite from Portugal! Rare, Rare, Rare and one of my last pieces! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemrd=1item=200156958114 For those of you who collect Big Rare pieces Roosevelt County 081, flight oriented main mass.. last chance to own this one! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemrd=1item=200156944687 Check out these really cool LL5 specimens. A lot of Chondrules in these specimens different shapes sizes, I finally cut my big main mass and I am glad that I did. Each slice was an adventure very much worth a look even if you dont buy any! http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?fsop=1fsoo=1from=R45satitle=mete orite+nwa+2380 Also, I have some of the finest specimens of SAU 001 that I have ever had! Galaxies of Chondrules.. must see to believe! Check them out! Here is an example, and I have more in my store and up for auction! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemrd=1item=200159262467 Of course there are many, many more to see and choose from Go to: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQfbfmtZ1QQsabfmtsZ1QQsascsZ1QQsassZmeteoriteQ2dco llector Thanks and Best Wishes Michael Cottingham __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] a suggestion from Captain Blood - lets see if the link works and you can click on it
Listoids Captain Blood has kindly suggested I put the link more properly as http://www.qmig.org so youse can click on it And a special message from Captain Blood and I IMCA metstruck page has had a big update http://imca.repetti.net/metinfo/metstruck.html many new hammers are listed subtly - they are of course mostly referenced - last snapshot we recall only had up to Moss (referenced as 30) so any of them that are referenced 31 to 41 are indeed newly listed hammers ! Its a bugger of a job to list all of them - you really have to read the blue book word by word - some of them that MB and I consider to be hammers arent listed eg Plainview and KN and I have traded email on this but they wont be listed unless proper references can be sighted and maybe listoids can help with this More importantly MB and I are on the hunt for the new hammers and would ask if youse contact us off-list if you know of any for sale Cheers __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] News and Views in Peru
Hi Sterling, Cazameteoritos means meteorite hunter, or meteorite chaser. Nothing pejorative there, just an accurate description of Mike Farmer. Sincerely, Mike Fowler Chicago PS My wife is Peruvian. There is an implication (but no direct statement) that trafficing in meteorites is a shady quasi-legal affair, as there is much emphasis on the fact that Mike buys and sells them. I wish I knew what cazameteoritos means but the online translator won't translate it (nor the word caza either). Meteorite traders? Meteorite peddlers? Meteorite Con-men? Sterling K. Webb __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Fw: More Peru News, Including Locationa and Trajectory of Peru Impact
Hi Paul, Many thanks for the interesting links on the Titicaca (Carrancas?) meteor fligh path. Best wishes, José Campos Portugal - Original Message - From: Paul [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 8:52 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] More Peru News,Including Locationa and Trajectory of Peru Impact Dear friends, more about the Peru impact, including a figure showing the location of the impact and presumed trajectory of the meteorite can be found in: Mysteries remain over Peru meteorite impact by Jeff Hecht New Scientist, September 28, 2007 http://www.signs-of-the-times.org/articles/show/140757-Mysteries+remain+over+Peru+meteorite+impact Inferred trajectory and location of impact shown at: http://www.signs-of-the-times.org/image/image/3376/dn12704-3_800.jpg Wild theories about meteorite in Peru discounted Globe and Mail, Canada Sep 26, 2007 http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20070926.wmeteor26/BNStory/Science/home It came from space by Margaret Munro , CanWest News Service, September 27, 2007 http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/story.html?id=965de176-30b8-4dcc-99c0-7afb84b996adk=40357 Yours, Paul H. Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel. http://travel.yahoo.com/ __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.13.39/1044 - Release Date: 02-10-2007 11:10 __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Lake Titicaca meteorite - The highest witnessed fall in history
Woud these be a true statements? The only meteorite to fall in an area of one of the natural wonders of the world. The only meteorite fall know to make people ill The highest witnessed fall in history at 3,843 msl. Dr. Richard Daniels __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Question about shock veins...?
--- ensoramanda [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My question is...Could it be possible that the shock veins were produced as a direct result of the hypervelocity impact or is that not possibleare they much more likely to be formed in space during asteroid impacts. O. Richard Norton's book Encyclopedia of Meteorites describes shock and the pressures required to create the effects seen. I am pretty sure that the effects seen inside meteorites are due to the asteroidal impacts and are in fact ancient relics, not features of their impact with earth. Sterling is indeed a magnificent source of information in this regard, without whom, this list would be mostly a tiresome stream of rantings and adverts. Long may he stay here and enlighten us. I am sure he will be able to tell you catagorically rather than the vague hunch from numbers I think I have seen in the past (some from Sterling and almost certainly remembered incorrectly) I envision him sitting late of evenings with a pad and pencil with a calculator just trying to solve our problems. All right, I admit, I'm really in awe of the fact that his maths is good enough to be able to do it. Great question Endorsorama. Not one I'd have considered. Rob McC (wow a metlist post that compliments people! rarer than olivine dioginite) Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=listsid=396545469 __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Fw: News and Views in Peru
yes, that's correct: caza = hunter; cazameteoritos = meteorite hunter José Campos Portugal - Original Message - From: drtanuki [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Sterling K. Webb [EMAIL PROTECTED]; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2007 9:40 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] News and Views in Peru Sterling and All, Caza- chasers, hunters. Dirk Ross...Tokyo --- Sterling K. Webb [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, All, Beyond the views of Randall Richard Daniels Gregory on Mike Farmer, it seems that others in Peru are not happy with him. Taking no sides, just the messenger, folks. Here's a Peruvian news article: http://www.larepublica.com.pe/content/view/181193/30/ Here's a cleaned up machine translation: --- [Headline] They try to deal in pieces of the fallen meteorite [Subhead] A group of Americans came with this purpose to Carancas. The president of the Geophysical Institute of Peru (IGP), Ronald Woodman, denounced the group of Americans directed by Michael Farmer (famous searcher of meteors in the world) that tries to deal in remains of the meteorite that fell [down] in the locality of Carancas in the middle of the past September. They sneak in [literally, glide] to initiate the excavations to extract the remains at the border with Bolivia, since the meteorite fell [down] within one kilometer of the border with this country, Woodman declared. It [is] recounted that the group of five North Americans have come to the place with the support of the Police and that seemingly the settlers [villagers] negotiated with these merchants of meteorites. Ronald Woodman said that the cazameteoritos would be taking advantage of the ignorance of the settlers on the real value of the objects. There are not many in the world; they are valuable pieces for museums and collectors, as noted below. The facts: TRAFFIC. The citizen Michael Farmer sold a lunar fragment of approximately 1 kg found near to Agadir (Morocco) for 1.5 million dollars --- It would appear that entering the country from Bolivia, one mile away, with an international airport in nearby LaPaz, is inherently suspicious to some Peruvians. There is an implication (but no direct statement) that trafficing in meteorites is a shady quasi-legal affair, as there is much emphasis on the fact that Mike buys and sells them. I wish I knew what cazameteoritos means but the online translator won't translate it (nor the word caza either). Meteorite traders? Meteorite peddlers? Meteorite Con-men? Sterling K. Webb --- __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.14.0/1046 - Release Date: 03-10-2007 10:08 __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Mark Bostick`s meteorite chatroom open for discussion
All, As above. Thank you Mark Bostick! Dirk...Tokyo http://www.meteoritearticles.com/chatroom.html http://www.meteoritearticles.com/colwichita.html __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Mark Bostick chatroom open third try bounced again
List, Please join Mark Bostick`s chatroom for discussion. Thank you Mark! http://www.meteoritearticles.com/chatroom.html Dirk Ross...Tokyo __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Mark Bostick`s meteorite chatroom open for discussion--sorry bounced
All, As above. Thank you Mark Bostick! Dirk...Tokyo http://www.meteoritearticles.com/chatroom.html http://www.meteoritearticles.com/colwichita.html __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Current inventory of Randall's Lake Titicaca meteorite collection
I want full disclosure. I am starting to organize, photograph, and record my stones. Right now, I'm in the donation stage but I will be selling one 8.2 gram stone on eBay to help defray the cost of my trip and hopefully provide me with funds to make another Carancas expedition shortly. That one eBay auction will determine a lot of things. Because of all the accusations, I will list the entire lot of stones on an Excel spreadsheet and make it available as requested. I want full disclosure, and this spreadsheet will show all donations and sales to various organizations and individuals. To date, nothing has been sold or shipped, just tentative donations. Dr. Richard Daniels __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] FW: Dr. Richard Daniels is a pseudonym for RandallGregory, my way of not asking peo
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Dr. Richard Daniels is a pseudonym for RandallGregory, my way of not asking peo Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 19:48:00 -0400 Dear Randall, You were asking the List what they thought these stones were worth, and also asked opinions of what they might fetch on eBay. If you don't recall, check the archives. This was after you acquired samples. These weren't simply curious questions - the motive was obvious and undeniable. I have to say that your posing as Dr Richard Daniels, and in at least one post you made as him you had the audacity to refer to Randall Gregory (yourself!) in a positive light! This leads me to believe that you are of low ethics, and have no respect for other members of the List. Another List member asked you for specific details of your Doctor title. Will you answer him? Until you do, I will have to consider you as a fraud without any credibility. Sincerely, Pete Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 15:06:19 -0700 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Dr. Richard Daniels is a pseudonym for RandallGregory, my way of not asking peo To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Pete, (post please) Where is this ebay auction you're talking about? I still have all the stones in my possession and haven't made a single dime. I'm in the process of donating them to scientific institutions. I'll see what I have left when I'm done. Randall Pete Pete wrote: My sentiments, exactly, Martin! Pete From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 13:24:33 +0200 Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Dr. Richard Daniels is a pseudonym for RandallGregory, my way of not asking people to post for me Mr. Randall, I think I'm not the only one on that list here, who has the feeling, that your posts are highly inconsistent. First we could read from you, that you're not sure about, that there is a main mass some down below in the soil at all and that the crater/pit should be preserved. We read, that the poor locals should profit from the finds made there, that all fragments collected and sold by locals without agreement of the land owner are stolen goods and how immoral it is to sell such goods on ebay. And that the best solution would be, that the meteorites and the crater would be property of the Peruvian state as national treasure + that the Peruvian scientists would be experienced enough to handle the case. In the same mails and later we read, that you not only have bought some material at a not directly generous price, but that you bought it from the local authorities, who had confiscated the material from people, who collected it illegally (according your own words). To give money to authorities to obtain secured material - hence either property of state or in custody of the state is a simple act of corruption. And contradicting your own moral standards you started immediately to fence those stones via ebay and to dealers like Matteo. After on the list was discussed, that there is a probability that the main mass could exist below the crater and Farmer/Karl/Ward travelled to the site, you showed an immediate eagerness to lead an initiative to excavate it. Now, when they entered the scene offering the locals - remember your own mails, who are poor and should profit from that situation - a much higher and adequate price for the material, which they collected than you did with your (seen from the collectors point of view) ridiculous price, you seem not to be delighted. And furthermore you condemn, that they sensitized the population about the importance of that case, in giving them a more adequate imagination that the possible main mass is more important than the crater and that it has a high value, which lead to the exact result, which you always wanted from the beginning on, but which you weren't able to accomplish, that the importance and the basic necessity to act was finally recognized on a national level. Instead to be happy about that, and also that the area is now protected by police from further looting, you call it now an irreparable damage. And with all respect, the questions about meteorites, you posed here on the list, give not directly an impression, that you're an expert in meteoritics, neither do I see, why you should be entitled for the all your work at preservation and not rather the Peruvian scientists, who - at least you expressed it so in one of your early mails - are in your opinion sufficiently trained to investigate that fall. So even if we let that strange issues from the private mails Farmer published here aside, the observer will see a remarkable bigotry in your emails and will most probably come to the conclusion, that your motivation isn't morale but profane greed. Regards, Martin -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: [EMAIL
Re: [meteorite-list] Lake Titicaca Meteorite - proposal for new name
Dr. Daniels, dear List Members, So you want full disclosure? Like McCartney Taylor, I would also like to know the institution you did your PhD at... And, could you please enlighten us why you are operating under two different names, one claiming a (questionable?) academic degree? I don't know for the laws in your country, but at least in Europe it's a criminal offense to use fake academic degrees or to attach an academic degree to a fictional name. JFYI. On another issue: in several posts you claimed that you'd respect the (indigenous) people in South America, local laws, etc. pp. But then you wrote: Additonally, naming it Lake Titicaca allows Bolivia to share. It is right on the boarder (political). There is a saying in Peru about the lake. Peru has the titty and Boliva has the caca. :) While the first part of your statement is true - the fall area of this new meteorite is actually not too far away from the famous ruins of Tihuanaku on the Bolivian side of the border - the people in Bolivia would certainly not be amused by your joke... (I seriously doubt that it's a Peruvian saying as it doesn't make much sense in Quechua or Aymara, and not even in the usual South American Castillano.) I wonder what my old friend and teacher Dr. Jorge Miranda-Luizaga from the Ministerio de Justicia, Bolivia, would make of this, and your attitude of being a big fish in the Lake Titicaca (area), or in South America at large? If you like, I can ask him. You seem to believe that you can insult everyone - the scientific community by using a (questionable?) academic degree, and attaching it to the name of a Whiskey brand (I got this from one of your recent emails to this list); other meteorite hunters who did nothing else than you (buying pieces of this meteorites from the locals), and then calling them criminals; the people of Bolivia; and last but not least the members of this list by playing silly games with us. At least I'm disgusted, and sick of it. Sincerelly, Norbert Classen www.meteoris.de PS: If you respond to this email please make sure to sign with your REAL name, or am I expecting too much??? __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Dr Daniels - proposal for new name
I think it is high time for Randall Gregory to sign his own emails and stop using a phony name, with a phony Dr. attached! I also think that if he is so sensitive to the feelings of the local people as he claims, he should never have repeated that joke about caca for the Bolivians Bolivians are people too, and that remark is very offensive! Sincerely, Mike Fowler Chicago Additonally, naming it Lake Titicaca allows Bolivia to share. It is right on the boarder (political). There is a saying in Peru about the lake. Peru has the titty and Boliva has the caca. :) A meteorite couldn't have hit in a more beautiful place. I propose Lake Titicaca meteorite. I also propose that the met-list votes on this. Then, would anyone like to support start the submission to the Meteoritical Society? Dr. Richard Daniels __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] APL Astronomer Spies Conditions 'Just Right' For Building an Earth
Johns Hopkins University Applied Physics Laboratory Office of Communications and Public Affairs Laurel, Maryland Media Contact: Michael Buckley (240) 228-7536 or (443) 778-7536 [EMAIL PROTECTED] October 3, 2007 FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE APL ASTRONOMER SPIES CONDITIONS 'JUST RIGHT' FOR BUILDING AN EARTH An Earth-like planet is likely forming 424 light-years away in a star system called HD 113766, say astronomers using NASA's Spitzer Space Telescope. Scientists have discovered a huge belt of warm dust - enough to build a Mars-size planet or larger - swirling around a distant star that is just slightly more massive than our sun. The dust belt, which they suspect is clumping together into planets, is located in the middle of the system's terrestrial habitable zone. This is the region around a star where liquid water could exist on any rocky planets that might form. Earth is located in the middle of our sun's terrestrial habitable zone. At approximately 10 million years old, the star is also at just the right age for forming rocky planets. The timing for this system to be building an Earth is very good, says Dr. Carey Lisse, of the Johns Hopkins University Applied Physics Laboratory, Laurel, Md. If the system was too young, its planet-forming disk would be full of gas, and it would be making gas-giant planets like Jupiter instead. If the system was too old, then dust aggregation or clumping would have already occurred and all the system's rocky planets would have already formed. According to Lisse, the conditions for forming an Earth-like planet are more than just being in the right place at the right time and around the right star - it's also about the right mix of dusty materials. Using Spitzer's infrared spectrometer instrument, he determined that the material in HD 113866 is more processed than the snowball-like stuff that makes up infant solar systems and comets, which are considered cosmic refrigerators because they contain pristine ingredients from the early solar system. However, it is also not as processed as the stuff found in mature planets and the largest asteroids. This means the dust belt must be in a transitional phase, when rocky planets are just beginning to form. How do scientists know the material is more processed than that of comets? From missions like NASA's Deep Impact - in which an 820-pound impactor spacecraft collided with comet Tempel 1 - scientists know that early star systems contain a lot of fragile organic material. That material includes polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons (carbon-based molecules found on charred barbeque grills and in automobile exhaust on Earth), water ice, and carbonates (chalk). Lisse says that HD 113766 does not contain any water ice, carbonates or fragile organic materials. From meteorite studies on Earth, scientists also have a good idea of what makes up asteroids, the more processed rocky leftovers of planet formation. These studies tell us that metals began separating from rocks in Earth's early days, when the planet's body was completely molten. During this time, almost all the heavy metals fell to Earth's center in a process called differentiation. Lisse says that, unlike planets and asteroids, the metals in HD 113766 have not totally separated from the rocky material, suggesting that rocky planets have not yet formed. The material mix in this belt is most reminiscent of the stuff found in lava flows on Earth. I thought of Mauna Kea material when I first saw the dust composition in this system; it contains raw rock and is abundant in iron sulfides, which are similar to fool's gold, says Lisse, referring to a well-known Hawaiian volcano. It is fantastic to think we are able to detect the process of terrestrial planet formation. Stay tuned; I expect lots more fireworks as the planet in HD 113766 grows, he adds. Lisse has written a paper on his research that will be published in an upcoming issue of Astrophysical Journal; he will also present his findings next week at the American Astronomical Society Division for Planetary Sciences meeting in Orlando, Fla. Lisse's research was funded through a Johns Hopkins Applied Physics Laboratory Stuart S. Janney Fellowship and a Spitzer Space Telescope guest observer grant. NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif., manages the Spitzer Space Telescope mission for NASA's Science Mission Directorate, Washington. Science operations are conducted at the Spitzer Science Center at the California Institute of Technology, also in Pasadena. Caltech manages JPL for NASA. The University of Maryland is responsible for overall Deep Impact mission science, and project management is handled by JPL. ### Note to editors: an image to accompany this release is available at: http://www.jhuapl.edu/newscenter/pressreleases/2007/071003.asp Science Contact: Dr. Carey Lisse (240) 228-0535 or (443)
[meteorite-list] Congress Gets Bill to Save Arecibo Observatory
http://www.news.cornell.edu/stories/Oct07/Arecibo.bill.lg.html Congress gets bill to save Arecibo Observatory Oct. 3, 2007 By Lauren Gold [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cornell University Congressmen Luis Fortuño of Puerto Rico and Dana Rohrabacher of California have introduced legislation in the U.S. House of Representatives to ensure continued operation of the Arecibo Observatory in Puerto Rico. They want to guarantee future federal funding for the astronomical and radar-imaging facility. The bill is an appeal for the NSF [National Science Foundation] and NASA to get together and talk about how they might jointly work to maintain the science program at Arecibo, said Robert Brown, director of Cornell's National Astronomy and Ionosphere Center, which manages the facility for the NSF. Brown, also an adjunct professor of astronomy at Cornell, said: It doesn't ask for something new; rather, it seeks to maintain what goes on at the moment. The observatory is really an icon to the people of Puerto Rico -- it allows young people see ... that Puerto Rico and Puerto Ricans can be successful scientifically on a world stage. The observatory is facing severe federal budget cuts by 2011 as the result of an NSF Senior Review panel recommendation last year. The observatory has reduced its operating budget from $10 million to $8 million since last year, and funding will remain level over the next three years. Fortuño and others in Congress have also written to the NSF seeking reconsideration of the recommended budget cuts. Fortuño noted that the radio astronomy and radar capabilities of the facility are critical to detection and tracking of near-Earth objects (NEOs), including asteroids that could pose a hazard of catastrophic destruction and loss of life. The legislation introduced by Fortuño and Rohrabacher would mandate the continued operation of the facility and would support the mission of NASA with respect to NEOs, as well as research for scientific and educational purposes important to Puerto Rico and the rest of the nation. Fortuño said: Nobel Prize-winning research has been conducted at Arecibo in the past and may be again in the future, unless the observatory is closed for short-sighted reasons. Maintaining this facility is an investment in our nation's future. The cost is small compared to the benefits for America and mankind. Said Rohrabacher: Arecibo is a key resource in understanding the characteristics of potentially hazardous asteroids and comets so that they can be dealt with effectively. There is no room for error when it comes to eliminating a threat that could kill millions. ## __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Mike Farmers Current status
I havent heard from Mike. If anyone has, can you please email me off list? Thanks, Bob Evans __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Carnacas smoke-trail photos
I too am in complete awe Jerry Flaherty - Original Message - From: Darryl Pitt [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteorite List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com; Chris Peterson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 9:37 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Carnacas smoke-trail photos you know what mike farmer has been up to the last few months is nothing short of extraordinary. what is happening before each of us right now is the meteorite lore of the future. as everyone who even glances at this list knows, i'm not blowing smoke (trails) here. kudos must also go to his hunting pals, robert ward and moritz karl , who i suspect help keep mike in motion. astonishing. simply astonishing. On Oct 2, 2007, at 8:59 PM, Michael Farmer wrote: Chris, it is a hell of a crater, at least 13 meters in diameter, more than one meter of uplift, looks identical to Meteor Crater to me, on a much smaller scale. There in fact does seem to be shocked material at the crater, I found only inside and just outside the crater, large pieces of compacted sandstone, yet there is no sandstone there, it seems to have solidified on the impact, everything else is more like soft mud. Large, and I mean larger pieces of sod, weighing at least 40 or 50 kilograms were thrown more than 50-100 meters, and smaller dirt clod debris thrown up to 15o meters in all directions. This is a serious impact, I mean you can call it what you want, but with the uplift, the incredible debris field thrown to all sides, the huge size, and volume of the crater itself, certainly leads me to believe that the mass weighed many tons and is obviously in the hole under some meters of fallback debris. The locals report mushroom cloud lingered for more than a hour. As far as more pieces, this meterite came in over lake Titikaka, and if you have never seen this lake, it is HUGE! I would guess that as fragil as the meteorite is, that tons of debris fell off but would most likely have all fallen into the lake, or perhaps some on the mountains just inside of Bolivia. It is not populated there, and I assume from talking to most witnesses, that the large main mass, which was a massive ball of fire much larger and brighter than the Sun, caught everyones attention pretty well, and would be so bright that smaller pieces would be drowned out by the intensity of the main mass. That is what I think happened, surely many more pieces broke off but from where the main mass hit, back down the flightpath is nothing but swamps and high mountains for about 10 miles, then 15 miles of lake. Perfect for most material to be lost. Michael Farmer --- Chris Peterson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What remains to be determined is if this is actually a crater, or just a big splash. In the first case, some shocked material should show up, and I think it's likely that nothing is left in the bottom. If there really is a big meteorite at the bottom, then this probably isn't a crater in the usual sense (that is, produced by a large energy release as the parent body explodes/vaporizes). I don't believe I've seen anything credible to suggest that the water was actually boiling or steaming. It doesn't take much energy to make a hole this size in soft ground- probably around 100 kg TNT equivalent. And that's not enough to heat up that much water very much. So I expect that any apparent bubbling was nothing more than an effect of ground water filling in the new hole. If the recovered material is shocked fragments, it may be structurally quite different from the parent body. Chris * Chris L Peterson Cloudbait Observatory http://www.cloudbait.com - Original Message - From: Darren Garrison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 5:37 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Carnacas smoke-trail photos On Tue, 2 Oct 2007 15:54:57 -0700 (PDT), you wrote: Is it indeed possible that a mass of say 3-7 tons could cause such intense heat on impact? We think that the compression of the soil, in an instant to many meteors deep could also cause intense heating. Every person we interviewed decribed boiling water, lots of steam, and horrible sulfer type smell. The What I wonder is if maybe the pressure/heat could have caused dissolved gases to bubble out from the water? So it might not have been at a boiling temperature, but still bubbling/steaming? Too bad we don't have samples of the groundwater and soil from the area to see if there is anything weird/extensively poluted about it. Also odd, of course, is a fraglie, porus stone as you describe surviving to the ground big enough and fast enough to make the crater. __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Lake Titicaca meteorite - The highest witnessed fall in history
Just a second... Tulung Dzong fell March 26, 1944, in Tibet. According to MetBase, the coordinates are not known exactly, but the reported location is over 4000 m, about 20 km from any ground as low as 3843 m. This unclassified stone is held by the Geological Survey of India, Calcutta. Jeff At 07:14 PM 10/3/2007, you wrote: Woud these be a true statements? The only meteorite to fall in an area of one of the natural wonders of the world. The only meteorite fall know to make people ill The highest witnessed fall in history at 3,843 msl. Dr. Richard Daniels __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman phone: (703) 648-6184 US Geological Survey fax: (703) 648-6383 954 National Center Reston, VA 20192, USA __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] AD: Re: Rocks From Space Picture of the Day - October 3, 2007
The BIGGEST Tatahouine's are still up for grabs! http://www.rocksonfire.com/select-met.htm Best regards from Down-Under, Norbert Kammel IMCA # 3420 www.rocksonfire.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://www.spacerocksinc.com/October_3_2007.html ___ ** See what's new at http://www.aol.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Dr Daniels - proposal for new name
Mr. Fowler, This may be my last post as Dr. Richard (Jack) Daniels. a.k.a Dr. Dick. I'll make a test. If it goes through, then I switch over, permanently. Apparently you have lost your sense of humor. It is a common Peruvian joke. The Bolivians think it's funny also. I make no apologies. There's another one that I tell all the time. When asked if I married, I tell them yes, but my wife is not Peruvian, she's Arequipeña. Arequipeans like to think of themselves as an independent country in Peru. The exact joke is: Tu Cansada? Si Tu Esposa Peruana? No Que Pais? Arequipa Republic Independente! and the burst out laughing. If I were you, I would start looking for your sense of humor. It's probably hiding under your bed. Or maybe you accidently flushed it down the toilet. Randall On 10/3/07, Mike Fowler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think it is high time for Randall Gregory to sign his own emails and stop using a phony name, with a phony Dr. attached! I also think that if he is so sensitive to the feelings of the local people as he claims, he should never have repeated that joke about caca for the Bolivians Bolivians are people too, and that remark is very offensive! Sincerely, Mike Fowler Chicago Additonally, naming it Lake Titicaca allows Bolivia to share. It is right on the boarder (political). There is a saying in Peru about the lake. Peru has the titty and Boliva has the caca. :) A meteorite couldn't have hit in a more beautiful place. I propose Lake Titicaca meteorite. I also propose that the met-list votes on this. Then, would anyone like to support start the submission to the Meteoritical Society? Dr. Richard Daniels __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- Regards, Dr. Richard Daniels __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Carancas Meteorite photos....again!
Sorry i didn't respond initially. cool pics! Jerry Flaherty - Original Message - From: ensoramanda [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2007 1:51 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Carancas Meteorite photosagain! Hi all, I'll try this one more timeposted it once already but folks seem more interested in discussing other peoples arguments than looking at some detailed shots of the actual meteorite. I obtained these photographs from a Bolivian Mineral dealer who seems to have been to the Carancas area and found several kilo's of the meteorite. Not sure exactly if he bought them or collected them near the crater or elsewhere further back down the strewnfield...they look very fresh.. Comparing them with others so far I think they look genuine. I would be glad of anyones comments on this 9.8g fragment. Here they are...hope this post isnt delayed like the others last night!! http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o43/LaburnumStudio/DSCN6903.jpg http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o43/LaburnumStudio/DSCN6902.jpg http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o43/LaburnumStudio/DSCN6901.jpg http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o43/LaburnumStudio/DSCN6899.jpg http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o43/LaburnumStudio/DSCN6898.jpg http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o43/LaburnumStudio/DSCN6897.jpg http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o43/LaburnumStudio/DSCN6894.jpg Graham Ensor __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorites-- they give you wings
Now there's a link I could have done without[not the chicks of course]but jolting memories lost and forgotten. Jerry Flaherty - Original Message - From: Darren Garrison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteorite List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2007 5:06 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorites-- they give you wings http://www.chicagometeorites.net/id44.html __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Dr Daniels - proposal for new name
Additonally, naming it Lake Titicaca allows Bolivia to share. It is right on the boarder (political). There is a saying in Peru about the lake. Peru has the titty and Boliva has the caca. :) snip.. Apparently you have lost your sense of humor. It is a common Peruvian joke. The Bolivians think it's funny also. I make no apologies. snip.. Randall, It is quite common that the person who tells a joke disparaging blacks, italians, poles, etc. thinks the joke is funny, but the person on the receiving end doesn't. If you want to test what I'm talking about, maybe you could cross over the border to Bolivia and tell such a joke about lake Titicaca in a local bar, late at night! I also noticed that you have a hard time accepting any criticism without descending into the gutter, or perhaps the toilet? Sincerely, Mike Fowler Chicago If I were you, I would start looking for your sense of humor. It's probably hiding under your bed. Or maybe you accidently flushed it down the toilet. Randall __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Response to Randall, Michael
Hello XXX, Randall, etc, I'm going to take the time to go through this bit-by-bit. I reviewed the report sent in by Mr. Farmer today and then I asked my Peruvian wife to her to call my friends in Desaguadero to find out what the situation is. I read Mike's field report and he had mentioned that they started to pump out the water in the crater and I was curious to know if they found the meteorite. Just curious? Based on your previous emails, I would personally believe that an attempt such as his, coming from a person who -so- exploits the natives of wherever meteorites happen to fall by paying the finders drastically -more- than you paid them for samples ($0.50/g for samples that you say you're looking to sell for $30-60/g) would have caused you to become at the very least furious. - Who wouldn't be, with all of that lost profit? This is the story as my wife is relating to me after she talked to my friend. Major Victor Anaya Barrientos of the Peruvian National Police located in the town of Desaguadero. Apparently, Mike and his associated went to the town of Desaguadero and used their method of posting flyers and soliciting citizens to sell them meteorites.They told people that the meteorite pieces were very very valuable and they would pay good money for any samples. I guess they made offers on a per gram basis that sent these people into a frenzy. And they didn't do this with your offer. I wonder why...not They never went to the municipality and asked for any kind of permission. Please send a copy of whatever Peruvian law states that meteorites are the property of the municipality, as opposed to that of the land owner. It's true, the pieces that Michael bought from the police, he paid the police for, but in that case, the police should simply forward the money to its rightful owners. Peruvian law is the only one to blame in this scenario. Furthermore, I take it you have written consent of the municipality to collect meteoric specimens? Just wondering...whether or not it is actually required is a matter of Peruvian national law, an area in which I lack expertise, but it appears to me that you probably do as well. And they never made any contacts with scientists or researchers in Peru. These scientists have proven themselves to be almost as intelligent as you with regard to meteoritics and the recovery of such a large buried mass. I would personally deem it worth contacting at least some officials beforehand, but to be perfectly frank, I am 100% sure that, using my highschool physics qualifications as well as knowledge gleaned on the subject of meteoritics over my past nine years of collecting, I know more genrally about meteorites and impact mechanics than they do. I'm not talking about the real science of it - macroscopy, etc, but with regard to recovering samples and college level physics, I am certain that I am more proficient than they. I could very well be wrong, but, well, prove it. Local citizens swarmed to the site to look for pieces and almost caused a riot. almost caused a riot. This statement is clearly open to interpretation and should be looked at closely. almost caused a riot implies that there was no actual riot and the degree to which the event almost became a riot is something that I think you have exaggerated to accomplish your own ends - of making Michael Farmer look bad. The only thing that this tells us, then, is that there was some disturbance due to the amount of money that Michael offered for material, which in turn shows everyone that what you offered must have been a pittance in comparison. Apparently, the Spanish speaking person with Mike told the people of the community that there was a big meteorite in the hole and it was worth alot of money. This is the equivalent of starting a revolution. The people gathered at the municipality demanding that the government extract the meteorite. Good - maybe now something will be done about it...those scientists of which you speak, if they've even taken the time to visit the site yet, haven't done a single thing about saving/preserving what is likely the largest stony meteorite ever to fall in one piece. If the common people get worked up about selling it to whoever wants to buy it, I say go ahead - at least the science won't be lost. It's true, the crater is of value in itself, but surely some Peruvian scientists have gone down there by now and taken some relatively shallow cores to cross-section the crater so that a conclusion can be drawn as to whether the hole really is an impact crater or if it's simply an impact-pit. Or would you/they prefer that the meteorite rot for weeks before they get around to it...? The mayor of the city complied under duress, and started to pump out the water. Meanwhile, news of this revolution went from the local to the national level. Hell, at least something is being done to prevent the wasting of such a historic specimen...and you say the national government got wind of this
[meteorite-list] New Peru article
http://www.livinginperu.com/news-4832-environmentnature-meteorite-crater-guarded-perus-police-after-u-s-citizens-attempt-traffick-it Latest News in Peru / Archive Environment/Nature | 3 October, 2007 [ 16:00 ] Meteorite Crater Guarded by Peru's Police after U.S. Citizens Attempt to Traffick it (LIP-ir) -- Peru's official government news agency reported yesterday that the crater where a meteorite fell in Puno, Peru was being guarded by 20 of Peru's National Police officers. Chief of the police station, Major Victor Anaya stated that the officers had been placed near the meteorite landing site to keep a group of U.S. citizens from trafficking pieces of the meteorite. On Monday October 1, Ronald Woodman, the president of Peru's Geophysics Institute (IGP) claimed that a group of U.S. citizens, led by Michael Farmer, were attempting to traffick pieces of the meteorite. Woodman stated that Farmer was a known meteorite hunter that searched for meteorites around the world and sold them to collectors. He stated, They planned to start digging today and take them out of the country. This is worth money, and they are taking them to sell them not to study them. The Geophysics president expressed his discontent with respect to the team led by Farmer. He stated that they were taking advantage of the townspeoples ignorance, stating that the meteorite was worth much more than what they were paying. Anaya reported that police had searched for the meteorite hunters at their hotel but were unable to catch them because they had left. He explained that the U.S. citizens had urged the townspeople to collect samples, causing some of them to attempt to drain the water from the crater __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Slickensides vs. Shock Veins..was Nice photos of Carancas Meteorite
Hello Graham,List and-- Expeditionary Members, wherever you are It is an easy mistake in the broad scheme of things but the striation features in these photos are not shock veins but slickensides. Slickensides are the slippage surfaces of micro/macro faults where each side is ground down in a natural milling process. In terrestrial geology, they may be filled with any of several clay sediments-- some of which includes melt/fusion particles (Google slickenside to see that there is a book's worth of information that slickensides can reveal about rock and soil dynamic history. One branch of my collecting is assembling and cataloging slickensides samples and locations..self gratuitous grin inserted here) Slickensides accumulate a rock flour-like debris which tends to lubricate and as a demarcation of chemical and physical bonding between opposing surfaces-- it keeps the adjacent sides from cementing. Unhealed, they are natural lines of weakness. It makes perfect sense that on one of those fragments pictured late flight fragmentation shows a secondary fusion on a preserved slickenside: probably a rare, even unique surface feature as I know of no other example preserved outside of post flight/ground impact fragmentation. (e.g. Zag) Shock veins on the other hand, are filled with the mineral maskelynite which is the ultra compact spinel form of olivine. It forms in very high pressure environments such as asteroid collisions/shock events or deep within planets. Maskelynite is one of the major mineral forms in deep mantle here inside Earth. In meteorites, the shock vein acts to cement the sides together ceramically--known as a healed fracture, it becomes stronger and less likely to fracture along the shock vein itself. Elton --- ensoramanda [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This looks like the real thing when compared to others I have seen or heard discribed. Any comments about the features welcome. __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] New Peru article
Hi, The only good news here is that the notorious meteoritotrafficantes americanos have hopefully slipped across the bandit border into Boliva. police had searched for the meteorite hunters at their hotel but were unable to catch them because they had left. I was thinking it was getting near the time to get out of Dodge; wasn't everybody? Mike, get out of there. It will be interesting to watch the local scientific authorities remove the massive multi-ton meteorite from the muddy pit, from under five meters of water, without draining it, as they said they would, before the crater vanishes in a few months (as they also said it would). Just kidding. Only problem is, after kicking numbers and reports around for a day or two, I don't think that there's anything under that mud but more mud. According to the INGEMMET report, the windows of a dwelling over 1000 meters away from the crater were broken and blown out by the impact. I believe that is diagnostic of a hypersonic impact (greater than 340 m/s). Using the figure for average terrestrial rock, it only takes about 100 joules per gram to powder it to dust. At the speed of sound, each gram of the meteoroid has 60 joules of kinetic energy; at Mach 1.3 (450 m/s), it has 100 joules per gram. At 1000 m/s (or about Mach 3), it has over 500 joules per gram. Mike Farmer said, The meteorite is very fragile, very porous... I doubt very much that it would take 100 joules (granite takes 100 joules) to be dusted. Mike also mentioned locally taken photos that showed incredible amounts of meteorite powder. And lastly, it seems from those photos Mike saw (and the photgrapher's story) that the fireball's ablative smoke trail was visible pretty much all the way to the crater location and the mushroom cloud. That would mean that the object was in ablative flight all the way to the ground. (It's worthwhile to point out that ablation requires more than merely hypersonic speeds.) Then there's Dr. Daniels a.k.a. Gregory's report of the tiny dust-like particles he meteoritotrafficanted from a little old lady -- that's evidence that the crushing strength of the material was exceeded, and because it was outside the crater, must have come from the most protected part of the impactor: its backside. That meteorite is dust. No matter what it massed, there's nothing in that mudpit. And it's OK with me if I'm wrong and somebody winches a ton or two of meteorite out of the mud; it would be a great day. But... don't hold your breath. Sterling K. Webb - Original Message - From: Darren Garrison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2007 10:59 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] New Peru article http://www.livinginperu.com/news-4832-environmentnature-meteorite-crater-guarded-perus-police-after-u-s-citizens-attempt-traffick-it Latest News in Peru / Archive Environment/Nature | 3 October, 2007 [ 16:00 ] Meteorite Crater Guarded by Peru's Police after U.S. Citizens Attempt to Traffick it (LIP-ir) -- Peru's official government news agency reported yesterday that the crater where a meteorite fell in Puno, Peru was being guarded by 20 of Peru's National Police officers. Chief of the police station, Major Victor Anaya stated that the officers had been placed near the meteorite landing site to keep a group of U.S. citizens from trafficking pieces of the meteorite. On Monday October 1, Ronald Woodman, the president of Peru's Geophysics Institute (IGP) claimed that a group of U.S. citizens, led by Michael Farmer, were attempting to traffick pieces of the meteorite. Woodman stated that Farmer was a known meteorite hunter that searched for meteorites around the world and sold them to collectors. He stated, They planned to start digging today and take them out of the country. This is worth money, and they are taking them to sell them not to study them. The Geophysics president expressed his discontent with respect to the team led by Farmer. He stated that they were taking advantage of the townspeoples ignorance, stating that the meteorite was worth much more than what they were paying. Anaya reported that police had searched for the meteorite hunters at their hotel but were unable to catch them because they had left. He explained that the U.S. citizens had urged the townspeople to collect samples, causing some of them to attempt to drain the water from the crater __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
