Re: [meteorite-list] New Peru article

2007-10-03 Thread mexicodoug

Hi List amigos,

Just curious ... Sterling what model you have accounts for potato sized 
meteorites (and powder) scattered in and around meters from the impact, yet 
strictly powder inside, especially for a meteorite that sheds like this one 
particularly along its natural 'fault' lines.  Let me add that the collision 
physics probably is greatly different as the ground is a great deal more 
"compressible" than a typical collision where the rate of the speed of sound 
traveling from end and back determines the stresses experienced.  This is 
basically the difference between dividing by zero time to dividing by an 
extended time caused by the detrital inclusions in the energy absorbing 
sink.  The six meter depth of the crater in all likelyhood is an indication 
of significant damping more than anything else.  As is the great diameter a 
testimony of the characteristic of the ability of the ground to absorb 
shock.  The difference between falling from an altitude to a marble floor or 
a to bank of snow where you leave a big hole.


Even a three tone stone meteorite wouldn't be expected to maintain any 
cosmic velocity, and if it did by some stretch, it should have long sheered 
apart as it hit dense atmosphere.


Another random comment I have is that despite the observed peeing in the 
crater, the marly clay soil is quite basic (pH = 7.8 vs. acidic), so we may 
be lucky in that the meteorite remains preserved more than we think.


Finally, without any disrespect meant, I wanted to nominate the informal 
name of this meteorite to be "the Pisco Sour meteorite" (even though it is 
now quite alkaline).


Best health,
Doug

PS Randall, with all respect due and no malice intended, that joke you told 
about the Arequipan Republic makes you as the joke teller a homosexual girl, 
a result I don't think you intended (and please don't shoot the messenger). 
Run by your wife the version you posted "exactly" and see if she busts out 
laughing like we did.  But hey a little joshing is good for the soul...



- Original Message - 
From: "Sterling K. Webb" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: 
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2007 12:28 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] New Peru article



Hi,

   The only good news here is that the notorious
"meteoritotrafficantes americanos" have hopefully
slipped across the bandit border into Boliva.


police had searched for the meteorite hunters
at their hotel but were unable to catch them
because they had left.


   I was thinking it was getting near the time to
get out of Dodge; wasn't everybody? Mike, get
out of there.

   It will be interesting to watch the local scientific
authorities remove the massive multi-ton meteorite
from the muddy pit, from under five meters of water,
without draining it, as they said they would, before
the crater vanishes in a few months (as they also
said it would). Just kidding.

   Only problem is, after kicking numbers and
reports around for a day or two, I don't think that
there's anything under that mud but more mud.
According to the INGEMMET report, the windows
of a dwelling over 1000 meters away from the crater
were broken and blown out by the impact. I believe
that is diagnostic of a hypersonic impact (greater
than 340 m/s).

   Using the figure for average terrestrial rock, it
only takes about 100 joules per gram to powder it
to dust. At the speed of sound, each gram of the
meteoroid has 60 joules of kinetic energy; at Mach
1.3 (450 m/s), it has 100 joules per gram. At 1000 m/s
(or about Mach 3), it has over 500 joules per gram.

   Mike Farmer said, "The meteorite is very fragile,
very porous..." I doubt very much that it would take
100 joules (granite takes 100 joules) to be dusted.
Mike also mentioned locally taken photos that showed
"incredible amounts of meteorite powder."

   And lastly, it seems from those photos Mike saw
(and the photgrapher's story) that the fireball's ablative
smoke trail was visible pretty much all the way to the
crater location and the mushroom cloud. That would
mean that the object was in ablative flight all the way
to the ground. (It's worthwhile to point out that ablation
requires more than "merely" hypersonic speeds.)

   Then there's Dr. Daniels a.k.a. Gregory's report of
the tiny dust-like particles he meteoritotrafficanted from
a little old lady -- that's evidence that the crushing strength
of the material was exceeded, and because it was outside
the crater, must have come from the most protected
part of the impactor: its backside.

   That meteorite is dust. No matter what it massed,
there's nothing in that mudpit.

   And it's OK with me if I'm wrong and somebody
winches a ton or two of meteorite out of the mud; it
would be a great day. But... don't hold your breath.


Sterling K. Webb

- Original Message - 
From: "Darren Garrison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: 
Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2007 10:59 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] New Peru article

Re: [meteorite-list] Slickensides vs. Shock Veins..was Nice photos of Carancas Meteorite

2007-10-03 Thread dellenit
Hi Elton,

you are right with the slickensides. But some comments on Maskelynite:
It is NOT from olivine ! it is a glassy mineral which has a composition of 
plagioclase feldspar. It results from quenching from shock induced melt !
ref: http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/metsoc99/pdf/5047.pdf

Harald


- Original von:  Mr EMan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

> Hello Graham,List and-- Expeditionary Members,
wherever you are

 It is an easy mistake in the broad scheme of things
but the striation features in these photos are not
shock veins but slickensides. Slickensides are the 
slippage surfaces of micro/macro faults where each
side is ground down in a natural milling process.

In terrestrial geology, they may be filled with any of
several clay sediments-- some of which includes
melt/fusion particles (Google "slickenside" to see
that there is a book's worth of information that
slickensides can reveal about rock and soil dynamic
history.  One branch of my collecting is assembling
and cataloging slickensides samples and
locations..self gratuitous grin inserted here)

Slickensides accumulate a rock flour-like debris which
tends to lubricate and as a demarcation of chemical
and physical bonding between opposing surfaces-- it
keeps the adjacent sides from cementing.  Unhealed,
they are natural lines of weakness.  It makes perfect
sense that on one of those fragments pictured late
flight fragmentation shows a secondary fusion on a
preserved slickenside: probably a rare, even unique
surface feature as I know of no other example
preserved outside of post flight/ground impact
fragmentation. (e.g. Zag)

Shock veins on the other hand, are filled with the
mineral maskelynite which is the ultra compact spinel
form of olivine. It forms in very high pressure
environments such as asteroid collisions/shock events
or deep within planets. Maskelynite is one of the
major mineral forms in deep mantle here inside Earth. 

 In meteorites, the shock vein acts to cement the
sides together ceramically--known as a "healed"
fracture, it becomes stronger and less likely to
fracture along the shock vein itself.

Elton

--- ensoramanda <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> This looks like the real thing when compared to
> others I have seen or heard discribed.
> 
> Any comments about the features welcome.
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Re: [meteorite-list] Re-2: Titicaca meteorite-- phinally, photos

2007-10-03 Thread Mr EMan
Hello Listoids and Listoid Emeritus Bernd
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
<>


Recovered meteorites are no stranger to water...
Norton County and the Carancas fragments remind me so
much of the very friable meteorite Bjurböle, which
fell in Finland in 1899. As reported below, it was
extracted from 7 meters of mud through a foot of sea
ice by divers in the days before heated SCUBA suits
... Amazing! 

"Bjurböle is the biggest meteorite fall or find in
Finland so far. This meteorite was broken in many
pieces when it hits the sea ice of gulf of Finland
after widely observed bright fireball and sonic booms.
Pieces were recovered from 8 meters deep (0.4 meter
ice 0.5 meter water and 7 meters mud) by divers.
Meteorite made 4 meter wide hole in the ice and mud
was spread over 24 x 33 m wide area around the hole.
This meteorite is famous by its big condrules and
because it is very fragile."
...Jarmo Moilanen's website


Elton
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Re: [meteorite-list] New Peru article

2007-10-03 Thread Sterling K. Webb
Hi,

The only good news here is that the notorious
"meteoritotrafficantes americanos" have hopefully
slipped across the bandit border into Boliva.

> police had searched for the meteorite hunters
> at their hotel but were unable to catch them
> because they had left.

I was thinking it was getting near the time to
get out of Dodge; wasn't everybody? Mike, get
out of there.

It will be interesting to watch the local scientific
authorities remove the massive multi-ton meteorite
from the muddy pit, from under five meters of water,
without draining it, as they said they would, before
the crater vanishes in a few months (as they also
said it would). Just kidding.

Only problem is, after kicking numbers and
reports around for a day or two, I don't think that
there's anything under that mud but more mud.
According to the INGEMMET report, the windows
of a dwelling over 1000 meters away from the crater
were broken and blown out by the impact. I believe
that is diagnostic of a hypersonic impact (greater
than 340 m/s).

Using the figure for average terrestrial rock, it
only takes about 100 joules per gram to powder it
to dust. At the speed of sound, each gram of the
meteoroid has 60 joules of kinetic energy; at Mach
1.3 (450 m/s), it has 100 joules per gram. At 1000 m/s
(or about Mach 3), it has over 500 joules per gram.

Mike Farmer said, "The meteorite is very fragile,
very porous..." I doubt very much that it would take
100 joules (granite takes 100 joules) to be dusted.
Mike also mentioned locally taken photos that showed
"incredible amounts of meteorite powder."

And lastly, it seems from those photos Mike saw
(and the photgrapher's story) that the fireball's ablative
smoke trail was visible pretty much all the way to the
crater location and the mushroom cloud. That would
mean that the object was in ablative flight all the way
to the ground. (It's worthwhile to point out that ablation
requires more than "merely" hypersonic speeds.)

Then there's Dr. Daniels a.k.a. Gregory's report of
the tiny dust-like particles he meteoritotrafficanted from
a little old lady -- that's evidence that the crushing strength
of the material was exceeded, and because it was outside
the crater, must have come from the most protected
part of the impactor: its backside.

That meteorite is dust. No matter what it massed,
there's nothing in that mudpit.

And it's OK with me if I'm wrong and somebody
winches a ton or two of meteorite out of the mud; it
would be a great day. But... don't hold your breath.


Sterling K. Webb

- Original Message - 
From: "Darren Garrison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2007 10:59 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] New Peru article


http://www.livinginperu.com/news-4832-environmentnature-meteorite-crater-guarded-perus-police-after-u-s-citizens-attempt-traffick-it

Latest News in Peru / Archive
Environment/Nature | 3 October, 2007 [ 16:00 ]

Meteorite Crater Guarded by Peru's Police after U.S. Citizens Attempt to
Traffick it

(LIP-ir) -- Peru's official government news agency reported yesterday that 
the
crater where a meteorite fell in Puno, Peru was being guarded by 20 of 
Peru's
National Police officers.

Chief of the police station, Major Victor Anaya stated that the officers had
been placed near the meteorite landing site to keep a group of U.S. citizens
from trafficking pieces of the meteorite.

On Monday October 1, Ronald Woodman, the president of Peru's Geophysics
Institute (IGP) claimed that a group of U.S. citizens, led by Michael 
Farmer,
were attempting to traffick pieces of the meteorite.

Woodman stated that Farmer was a known meteorite hunter that searched for
meteorites around the world and sold them to collectors. He stated, "They
planned to start digging today and take them out of the country. This is 
worth
money, and they are taking them to sell them not to study them."

The Geophysics president expressed his discontent with respect to the team 
led
by Farmer. He stated that they were taking advantage of the townspeoples
ignorance, stating that the meteorite was worth much more than what they 
were
paying.

Anaya reported that police had searched for the meteorite hunters at their 
hotel
but were unable to catch them because they had left. He explained that the 
U.S.
citizens had urged the townspeople to collect samples, causing some of them 
to
attempt to drain the water from the crater
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Re: [meteorite-list] Slickensides vs. Shock Veins..was Nice photos of Carancas Meteorite

2007-10-03 Thread Mr EMan
Hello Graham,List and-- Expeditionary Members,
wherever you are

 It is an easy mistake in the broad scheme of things
but the striation features in these photos are not
shock veins but slickensides. Slickensides are the 
slippage surfaces of micro/macro faults where each
side is ground down in a natural milling process.

In terrestrial geology, they may be filled with any of
several clay sediments-- some of which includes
melt/fusion particles (Google "slickenside" to see
that there is a book's worth of information that
slickensides can reveal about rock and soil dynamic
history.  One branch of my collecting is assembling
and cataloging slickensides samples and
locations..self gratuitous grin inserted here)

Slickensides accumulate a rock flour-like debris which
tends to lubricate and as a demarcation of chemical
and physical bonding between opposing surfaces-- it
keeps the adjacent sides from cementing.  Unhealed,
they are natural lines of weakness.  It makes perfect
sense that on one of those fragments pictured late
flight fragmentation shows a secondary fusion on a
preserved slickenside: probably a rare, even unique
surface feature as I know of no other example
preserved outside of post flight/ground impact
fragmentation. (e.g. Zag)

Shock veins on the other hand, are filled with the
mineral maskelynite which is the ultra compact spinel
form of olivine. It forms in very high pressure
environments such as asteroid collisions/shock events
or deep within planets. Maskelynite is one of the
major mineral forms in deep mantle here inside Earth. 

 In meteorites, the shock vein acts to cement the
sides together ceramically--known as a "healed"
fracture, it becomes stronger and less likely to
fracture along the shock vein itself.

Elton

--- ensoramanda <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> This looks like the real thing when compared to
> others I have seen or heard discribed.
> 
> Any comments about the features welcome.
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[meteorite-list] New Peru article

2007-10-03 Thread Darren Garrison
http://www.livinginperu.com/news-4832-environmentnature-meteorite-crater-guarded-perus-police-after-u-s-citizens-attempt-traffick-it

Latest News in Peru / Archive
Environment/Nature | 3 October, 2007 [ 16:00 ]

Meteorite Crater Guarded by Peru's Police after U.S. Citizens Attempt to
Traffick it

(LIP-ir) -- Peru's official government news agency reported yesterday that the
crater where a meteorite fell in Puno, Peru was being guarded by 20 of Peru's
National Police officers.

Chief of the police station, Major Victor Anaya stated that the officers had
been placed near the meteorite landing site to keep a group of U.S. citizens
from trafficking pieces of the meteorite.

On Monday October 1, Ronald Woodman, the president of Peru's Geophysics
Institute (IGP) claimed that a group of U.S. citizens, led by Michael Farmer,
were attempting to traffick pieces of the meteorite.

Woodman stated that Farmer was a known meteorite hunter that searched for
meteorites around the world and sold them to collectors. He stated, "They
planned to start digging today and take them out of the country. This is worth
money, and they are taking them to sell them not to study them."

The Geophysics president expressed his discontent with respect to the team led
by Farmer. He stated that they were taking advantage of the townspeoples
ignorance, stating that the meteorite was worth much more than what they were
paying.

Anaya reported that police had searched for the meteorite hunters at their hotel
but were unable to catch them because they had left. He explained that the U.S.
citizens had urged the townspeople to collect samples, causing some of them to
attempt to drain the water from the crater
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Re: [meteorite-list] Response to Randall, Michael

2007-10-03 Thread Jason Utas
Hello "XXX," Randall, etc,

I'm going to take the time to go through this bit-by-bit.

>I reviewed the report sent in by Mr. Farmer today and then I asked my
Peruvian wife to her to call my friends in Desaguadero to find out
what the situation is. I read Mike's field report and he had mentioned
that they started to pump out the water in the crater and I was
curious to know if they found the meteorite.

Just curious? Based on your previous emails, I would personally
believe that an attempt such as his, coming from a person who -so-
exploits the natives of wherever meteorites happen to fall by paying
the finders drastically -more- than you paid them for samples
($0.50/g for samples that you say you're looking to sell for $30-60/g)
would have caused you to become at the very least furious.
- Who wouldn't be, with all of that lost profit?

>This is the story as my wife is relating to me after she talked to my
friend. Major Victor Anaya Barrientos of the Peruvian National Police
located in the town of Desaguadero.
Apparently, Mike and his associated went to the town of Desaguadero
and used their method of posting flyers and soliciting citizens to
sell them meteorites.They told people that the meteorite pieces were
very very valuable and they would pay good money for any samples. I
guess they made offers on a per gram basis that sent these people into
a frenzy.

And they didn't do this with your offer.  I wonder why...not

>They never went to the municipality and asked for any kind
of permission.

Please send a copy of whatever Peruvian law states that meteorites are
the property of the municipality, as opposed to that of the land
owner.  It's true, the pieces that Michael bought from the police, he
paid the police for, but in that case, the police should simply
forward the money to its rightful owners.  Peruvian law is the only
one to blame in this scenario.
Furthermore, I take it you have written consent of the municipality to
collect meteoric specimens?  Just wondering...whether or not it is
actually required is a matter of Peruvian national law, an area in
which I lack expertise, but it appears to me that you probably do as
well.

>And they never made any contacts with scientists or
researchers in Peru.

These scientists have proven themselves to be almost as intelligent as
you with regard to meteoritics and the recovery of such a large buried
mass.  I would personally deem it worth contacting at least some
officials beforehand, but to be perfectly frank, I am 100% sure that,
using my highschool physics qualifications as well as knowledge
gleaned on the subject of meteoritics over my past nine years of
collecting, I know more genrally about meteorites and impact mechanics
than they do.  I'm not talking about the real science of it -
macroscopy, etc, but with regard to recovering samples and college
level physics, I am certain that I am more proficient than they.  I
could very well be wrong, but, well, prove it.

>Local citizens swarmed to the site to look for
pieces and almost caused a riot.

"almost caused a riot."  This statement is clearly open to
interpretation and should be looked at closely.  "almost caused a
riot" implies that there was no actual riot and the degree to which
the event "almost" became a riot is something that I think you have
exaggerated to accomplish your own ends - of making Michael Farmer
look bad.  The only thing that this tells us, then, is that there was
some disturbance due to the amount of money that Michael offered for
material, which in turn shows everyone that what you offered must have
been a pittance in comparison.

>Apparently, the Spanish speaking
person with Mike told the people of the community that there was a big
meteorite in the hole and it was worth alot of money. This is the
equivalent of starting a revolution. The people gathered at the
municipality demanding that the government extract the meteorite.

Good - maybe now something will be done about it...those scientists of
which you speak, if they've even taken the time to visit the site yet,
haven't done a single thing about saving/preserving what is likely the
largest stony meteorite ever to fall in one piece.  If the common
people get worked up about selling it to whoever wants to buy it, I
say go ahead - at least the science won't be lost.
It's true, the crater is of value in itself, but surely some Peruvian
scientists have gone down there by now and taken some relatively
shallow cores to cross-section the crater so that a conclusion can be
drawn as to whether the hole really is an impact crater or if it's
simply an impact-pit.  Or would you/they prefer that the meteorite rot
for weeks before they get around to it...?

>The mayor of the city complied under duress, and started to pump out the
water. Meanwhile, news of this revolution went from the local to the
national level.

Hell, at least something is being done to prevent the wasting of such
a historic specimen...and you say the national government got 

[meteorite-list] Dr Daniels - proposal for new name

2007-10-03 Thread Mike Fowler

Additonally, naming it Lake Titicaca allows Bolivia to share. It is
right on the boarder (political). There is a saying in Peru about the
lake. Peru has the titty and Boliva has the caca. :)  
snip..


Apparently you have lost your sense of humor. It is a
common Peruvian joke. The Bolivians think it's funny also. I make no
apologies. snip..


Randall,

It is quite common that the person who tells a joke disparaging  
blacks, italians, poles, etc. thinks the joke is funny, but the  
person on the receiving end doesn't.
If you want to test what I'm talking about, maybe you could cross  
over the border to Bolivia and tell such a joke about lake Titicaca  
in a local bar, late at night!


I also noticed that you have a hard time accepting any criticism  
without descending into the gutter, or perhaps the toilet?


Sincerely,

Mike Fowler
Chicago


If I were you, I would start looking for your sense of humor. It's
probably hiding under your bed. Or maybe you accidently flushed it
down the toilet.

Randall








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Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorites-- they give you wings

2007-10-03 Thread Jerry
Now there's a link I could have done without[not the chicks of course]but 
jolting memories lost and forgotten.

Jerry Flaherty
- Original Message - 
From: "Darren Garrison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "Meteorite List" 
Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2007 5:06 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorites-- they give you wings



http://www.chicagometeorites.net/id44.html
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Re: [meteorite-list] Carancas Meteorite photos....again!

2007-10-03 Thread Jerry

Sorry i didn't respond initially. cool pics!
Jerry Flaherty
- Original Message - 
From: "ensoramanda" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: 
Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2007 1:51 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Carancas Meteorite photosagain!



Hi all,

I'll try this one more timeposted it once already but folks seem 
more interested in discussing other peoples arguments than looking at 
some detailed shots of the actual meteorite.


I obtained these photographs from a Bolivian Mineral dealer who seems to 
have been to the Carancas area and found several kilo's of the 
meteorite.  Not sure exactly if he bought them or collected them near 
the crater or elsewhere further back down the strewnfield...they look 
very fresh.. Comparing them with others so far I think they look 
genuine.  I would be glad of anyones comments on this 9.8g fragment.


Here they are...hope this post isnt delayed like the others last night!!

http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o43/LaburnumStudio/DSCN6903.jpg
http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o43/LaburnumStudio/DSCN6902.jpg
http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o43/LaburnumStudio/DSCN6901.jpg
http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o43/LaburnumStudio/DSCN6899.jpg
http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o43/LaburnumStudio/DSCN6898.jpg
http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o43/LaburnumStudio/DSCN6897.jpg
http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o43/LaburnumStudio/DSCN6894.jpg


Graham Ensor
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Re: [meteorite-list] Dr Daniels - proposal for new name

2007-10-03 Thread Dr. Richard Daniels
Mr. Fowler,

This may be my last post as Dr. Richard (Jack) Daniels. a.k.a Dr.
Dick.  I'll make a test. If it goes through, then I switch over,
permanently. Apparently you have lost your sense of humor. It is a
common Peruvian joke. The Bolivians think it's funny also. I make no
apologies. There's another one that I tell all the time. When asked if
I married, I tell them yes, but my wife is not Peruvian, she's
Arequipeña. Arequipeans like to think of themselves as an independent
country in Peru.  The exact joke is:

Tu Cansada?  Si
Tu Esposa Peruana? No
Que Pais? Arequipa

Republic Independente!

and the burst out laughing.

If I were you, I would start looking for your sense of humor. It's
probably hiding under your bed. Or maybe you accidently flushed it
down the toilet.


Randall

On 10/3/07, Mike Fowler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
>
> I think it is high time for Randall Gregory to sign his own emails
> and stop using a phony name, with a phony Dr. attached!
>
> I also think that if he is so sensitive to the feelings of the local
> people as he claims, he should never have repeated that joke about
> "caca for the Bolivians"
>
> Bolivians are people too, and that remark is very offensive!
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Mike Fowler
> Chicago
>
>
>
>
> > Additonally, naming it Lake Titicaca allows Bolivia to share. It is
> > right on the boarder (political). There is a saying in Peru about the
> > lake. Peru has the titty and Boliva has the caca. :)
> >
> > A meteorite couldn't have hit in a more beautiful place. I propose
> > Lake Titicaca meteorite. I also propose that the met-list votes on
> > this. Then, would anyone like to support start the submission to the
> > Meteoritical Society?
> >
> > Dr. Richard Daniels
>
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>


-- 
Regards,

Dr. Richard Daniels
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Re: [meteorite-list] Carnacas smoke-trail photos

2007-10-03 Thread Jerry

I too am in complete awe
Jerry Flaherty
- Original Message - 
From: "Darryl Pitt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Meteorite List" ; "Chris Peterson" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 9:37 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Carnacas smoke-trail photos






you know

what mike farmer has been up to the last few months  is nothing short  of 
extraordinary.


what is happening before each of us right now is the meteorite lore  of 
the future.


as everyone who even glances at this list knows,  i'm not blowing  smoke 
(trails) here.  kudos must also go to his hunting pals,  robert  ward and 
moritz karl , who i suspect help keep mike in motion.


astonishing.  simply astonishing.





On Oct 2, 2007, at 8:59 PM, Michael Farmer wrote:



Chris, it is a hell of a crater, at least 13 meters in
diameter, more than one meter of uplift, looks
identical to Meteor Crater to me, on a much smaller
scale.
There in fact does seem to be shocked material at the
crater, I found only inside and just outside the
crater, large pieces of compacted sandstone, yet there
is no sandstone there, it seems to have solidified on
the impact, everything else is more like soft mud.
Large, and I mean larger pieces of sod, weighing at
least 40 or 50 kilograms were thrown more than 50-100
meters, and smaller dirt clod debris thrown up to 15o
meters in all directions. This is a serious impact, I
mean you can call it what you want, but with the
uplift, the incredible debris field thrown to all
sides, the huge size, and volume of the crater itself,
certainly leads me to believe that the mass weighed
many tons and is obviously in the hole under some
meters of fallback debris. The locals report mushroom
cloud lingered for more than a hour.
As far as more pieces, this meterite came in over lake
Titikaka, and if you have never seen this lake, it is
HUGE! I would guess that as fragil as the meteorite
is, that tons of debris fell off but would most likely
have all fallen into the lake, or perhaps some on the
mountains just inside of Bolivia. It is not populated
there, and I assume from talking to most witnesses,
that the large main mass, which was a massive ball of
fire much larger and brighter than the Sun, caught
everyones attention pretty well, and would be so
bright that smaller pieces would be drowned out by the
intensity of the main mass. That is what I think
happened, surely many more pieces broke off but from
where the main mass hit, back down the flightpath is
nothing but swamps and high mountains for about 10
miles, then 15 miles of lake. Perfect for most
material to be lost.
Michael Farmer
--- Chris Peterson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:




What remains to be determined is if this is actually
a crater, or just a
big splash. In the first case, some shocked material
should show up, and
I think it's likely that nothing is left in the
bottom. If there really
is a big meteorite at the bottom, then this probably
isn't a crater in
the usual sense (that is, produced by a large energy
release as the
parent body explodes/vaporizes).

I don't believe I've seen anything credible to
suggest that the water
was actually boiling or steaming. It doesn't take
much energy to make a
hole this size in soft ground- probably around 100
kg TNT equivalent.
And that's not enough to heat up that much water
very much. So I expect
that any apparent bubbling was nothing more than an
effect of ground
water filling in the new hole.

If the recovered material is shocked fragments, it
may be structurally
quite different from the parent body.

Chris

*
Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com


- Original Message -
From: "Darren Garrison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 5:37 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Carnacas smoke-trail
photos





On Tue, 2 Oct 2007 15:54:57 -0700 (PDT), you



wrote:







Is it indeed possible that a mass of say 3-7 tons
could cause such intense heat on impact? We think



that



the compression of the soil, in an instant to many
meteors deep could also cause intense heating.
Every person we interviewed decribed boiling



water,



lots of steam, and horrible sulfer type smell. The




What I wonder is if maybe the pressure/heat could



have caused



dissolved gases to
bubble out from the water?  So it might not have



been at a boiling



temperature,
but still bubbling/steaming?  Too bad we don't



have samples of the



groundwater
and soil from the area to see if there is anything



weird/extensively



poluted
about it.

Also odd, of course, is a fraglie, porus stone as



you describe



surviving to the
ground big enough and fast enough to make the



crater.

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[meteorite-list] Mike Farmers Current status

2007-10-03 Thread Bob Evans

I havent heard from Mike. If anyone has, can you please email me off list?

Thanks,
Bob Evans
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Re: [meteorite-list] Lake Titicaca meteorite - The highest witnessed fall in history

2007-10-03 Thread Jeff Grossman

Just a second...

Tulung Dzong fell March 26, 1944, in Tibet.  According to MetBase, 
the coordinates are not known exactly, but the reported location is 
over 4000 m, about 20 km from any ground as low as 3843 m.  This 
unclassified stone is held by the Geological Survey of India, Calcutta.


Jeff

At 07:14 PM 10/3/2007, you wrote:

Woud these be a true statements?

The only meteorite to fall in an area of one of the natural wonders of
the world.

The only meteorite fall know to make people ill

The highest witnessed fall in history at 3,843 msl.

Dr. Richard Daniels
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Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman   phone: (703) 648-6184
US Geological Survey  fax:   (703) 648-6383
954 National Center
Reston, VA 20192, USA


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[meteorite-list] Congress Gets Bill to Save Arecibo Observatory

2007-10-03 Thread Ron Baalke

http://www.news.cornell.edu/stories/Oct07/Arecibo.bill.lg.html

Congress gets bill to save Arecibo Observatory

Oct. 3, 2007

By Lauren Gold
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cornell University

Congressmen Luis Fortuño of Puerto Rico and Dana 
Rohrabacher of California have introduced 
legislation in the U.S. House of Representatives 
to ensure continued operation of the Arecibo 
Observatory in Puerto Rico. They want to 
guarantee future federal funding for the 
astronomical and radar-imaging facility.

"The bill is an appeal for the NSF [National 
Science Foundation] and NASA to get together and 
talk about how they might jointly work to 
maintain the science program at Arecibo," said 
Robert Brown, director of Cornell's National 
Astronomy and Ionosphere Center, which manages 
the facility for the NSF. Brown, also an adjunct 
professor of astronomy at Cornell, said: "It 
doesn't ask for something new; rather, it seeks 
to maintain what goes on at the moment. The 
observatory is really an icon to the people of 
Puerto Rico -- it allows young people see ... 
that Puerto Rico and Puerto Ricans can be 
successful scientifically on a world stage."

The observatory is facing severe federal budget 
cuts by 2011 as the result of an NSF Senior 
Review panel recommendation last year. The 
observatory has reduced its operating budget from 
$10 million to $8 million since last year, and 
funding will remain level over the next three 
years.

Fortuño and others in Congress have also written 
to the NSF seeking reconsideration of the 
recommended budget cuts. Fortuño noted that the 
radio astronomy and radar capabilities of the 
facility are critical to detection and tracking 
of near-Earth objects (NEOs), including asteroids 
that could pose a hazard of catastrophic 
destruction and loss of life.

The legislation introduced by Fortuño and 
Rohrabacher would mandate the continued operation 
of the facility and would support the mission of 
NASA with respect to NEOs, as well as research 
for scientific and educational purposes important 
to Puerto Rico and the rest of the nation.

Fortuño said: "Nobel Prize-winning research has 
been conducted at Arecibo in the past and may be 
again in the future, unless the observatory is 
closed for short-sighted reasons. Maintaining 
this facility is an investment in our nation's 
future. The cost is small compared to the 
benefits for America and mankind."

Said Rohrabacher: "Arecibo is a key resource in 
understanding the characteristics of potentially 
hazardous asteroids and comets so that they can 
be dealt with effectively. There is no room for 
error when it comes to eliminating a threat that 
could kill millions."


##


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[meteorite-list] APL Astronomer Spies Conditions 'Just Right' For Building an Earth

2007-10-03 Thread Ron Baalke


Johns Hopkins University Applied Physics Laboratory
Office of Communications and Public Affairs
Laurel, Maryland
Media Contact: Michael Buckley
(240) 228-7536 or (443) 778-7536
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
October 3, 2007

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

APL ASTRONOMER SPIES CONDITIONS 'JUST RIGHT' FOR BUILDING AN EARTH

An Earth-like planet is likely forming 424 light-years away in a star 
system called HD 113766, say astronomers using NASA's Spitzer Space Telescope.

Scientists have discovered a huge belt of warm dust - enough to build 
a Mars-size planet or larger - swirling around a distant star that is 
just slightly more massive than our sun. The dust belt, which they 
suspect is clumping together into planets, is located in the middle 
of the system's terrestrial habitable zone. This is the region around 
a star where liquid water could exist on any rocky planets that might 
form. Earth is located in the middle of our sun's terrestrial habitable zone.

At approximately 10 million years old, the star is also at just the 
right age for forming rocky planets.

"The timing for this system to be building an Earth is very good," 
says Dr. Carey Lisse, of the Johns Hopkins University Applied Physics 
Laboratory, Laurel, Md. "If the system was too young, its 
planet-forming disk would be full of gas, and it would be making 
gas-giant planets like Jupiter instead. If the system was too old, 
then dust aggregation or clumping would have already occurred and all 
the system's rocky planets would have already formed."

According to Lisse, the conditions for forming an Earth-like planet 
are more than just being in the right place at the right time and 
around the right star - it's also about the right mix of dusty materials.

Using Spitzer's infrared spectrometer instrument, he determined that 
the material in HD 113866 is more processed than the snowball-like 
stuff that makes up infant solar systems and comets, which are 
considered cosmic "refrigerators" because they contain pristine 
ingredients from the early solar system. However, it is also not as 
processed as the stuff found in mature planets and the largest 
asteroids. This means the dust belt must be in a transitional phase, 
when rocky planets are just beginning to form.

How do scientists know the material is more processed than that of 
comets? From missions like NASA's Deep Impact - in which an 820-pound 
impactor spacecraft collided with comet Tempel 1 - scientists know 
that early star systems contain a lot of fragile organic material. 
That material includes polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons (carbon-based 
molecules found on charred barbeque grills and in automobile exhaust 
on Earth), water ice, and carbonates (chalk). Lisse says that HD 
113766 does not contain any water ice, carbonates or fragile organic 
materials.

>From meteorite studies on Earth, scientists also have a good idea of 
what makes up asteroids, the more processed rocky leftovers of planet 
formation. These studies tell us that metals began separating from 
rocks in Earth's early days, when the planet's body was completely 
molten. During this time, almost all the heavy metals fell to Earth's 
center in a process called "differentiation." Lisse says that, unlike 
planets and asteroids, the metals in HD 113766 have not totally 
separated from the rocky material, suggesting that rocky planets have 
not yet formed.

"The material mix in this belt is most reminiscent of the stuff found 
in lava flows on Earth. I thought of Mauna Kea material when I first 
saw the dust composition in this system; it contains raw rock and is 
abundant in iron sulfides, which are similar to fool's gold," says 
Lisse, referring to a well-known Hawaiian volcano.

"It is fantastic to think we are able to detect the process of 
terrestrial planet formation. Stay tuned; I expect lots more 
fireworks as the planet in HD 113766 grows," he adds.

Lisse has written a paper on his research that will be published in 
an upcoming issue of Astrophysical Journal; he will also present his 
findings next week at the American Astronomical Society Division for 
Planetary Sciences meeting in Orlando, Fla. Lisse's research was 
funded through a Johns Hopkins Applied Physics Laboratory Stuart S. 
Janney Fellowship and a Spitzer Space Telescope guest observer grant.

NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif., manages the 
Spitzer Space Telescope mission for NASA's Science Mission 
Directorate, Washington. Science operations are conducted at the 
Spitzer Science Center at the California Institute of Technology, 
also in Pasadena. Caltech manages JPL for NASA. The University of 
Maryland is responsible for overall Deep Impact mission science, and 
project management is handled by JPL.

###

Note to editors: an image to accompany this release is available at: 
http://www.jhuapl.edu/newscenter/pressreleases/2007/071003.asp

Science Contact: Dr. Carey Lisse
(240) 228-0535 or 

[meteorite-list] Dr Daniels - proposal for new name

2007-10-03 Thread Mike Fowler




I think it is high time for Randall Gregory to sign his own emails  
and stop using a phony name, with a phony Dr. attached!


I also think that if he is so sensitive to the feelings of the local  
people as he claims, he should never have repeated that joke about  
"caca for the Bolivians"


Bolivians are people too, and that remark is very offensive!

Sincerely,

Mike Fowler
Chicago





Additonally, naming it Lake Titicaca allows Bolivia to share. It is
right on the boarder (political). There is a saying in Peru about the
lake. Peru has the titty and Boliva has the caca. :)

A meteorite couldn't have hit in a more beautiful place. I propose
Lake Titicaca meteorite. I also propose that the met-list votes on
this. Then, would anyone like to support start the submission to the
Meteoritical Society?

Dr. Richard Daniels


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[meteorite-list] AD: Re: Rocks From Space Picture of the Day - October 3, 2007

2007-10-03 Thread Norbert & Heike Kammel

The BIGGEST Tatahouine's are still up for grabs!
http://www.rocksonfire.com/select-met.htm

Best regards from Down-Under,

Norbert Kammel
IMCA # 3420
www.rocksonfire.com


[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

http://www.spacerocksinc.com/October_3_2007.html









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[meteorite-list] FW: Dr. Richard Daniels is a pseudonym for RandallGregory, my way of not asking peo

2007-10-03 Thread Pete Pete


> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Dr. Richard Daniels is a pseudonym for 
> RandallGregory, my way of not asking peo
> Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 19:48:00 -0400
>
>
> Dear Randall,
>
> You were asking the List what they thought these stones were worth, and also 
> asked opinions of what they might fetch on eBay.
> If you don't recall, check the archives.
>
> This was after you acquired samples.
> These weren't simply curious questions - the motive was obvious and 
> undeniable.
>
> I have to say that your posing as "Dr Richard Daniels", and in at least one 
> post you made as him you had the audacity to refer to "Randall Gregory" 
> (yourself!) in a positive light! This leads me to believe that you are of low 
> ethics, and have no respect for other members of the List.
>
> Another List member asked you for specific details of your "Doctor" title.
>
> Will you answer him?
>
> Until you do, I will have to consider you as a fraud without any credibility.
>
> Sincerely,
> Pete
>
> 
> Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 15:06:19 -0700
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Dr. Richard Daniels is a pseudonym for 
> RandallGregory, my way of not asking peo
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Pete, (post please)
>
> Where is this ebay auction you're talking about? I still have all the stones 
> in my possession and haven't made a single dime. I'm in the process of 
> donating them to scientific institutions. I'll see what I have left when I'm 
> done.
>
> Randall
>
> Pete Pete wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> My sentiments, exactly, Martin!
>
>
>
> Pete
>
>
>
>
>
>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
>> Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 13:24:33 +0200
>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Dr. Richard Daniels is a pseudonym for 
>> RandallGregory, my way of not asking people to post for me
>>
>> Mr. Randall,
>>
>> I think I'm not the only one on that list here, who has the feeling, that
>> your posts are highly inconsistent.
>>
>> First we could read from you, that you're not sure about, that there is a
>> main mass some down below in the soil at all and that the crater/pit should
>> be preserved.
>> We read, that the poor locals should profit from the finds made there, that
>> all fragments collected and sold by locals without agreement of the land
>> owner are stolen goods and how immoral it is to sell such goods on ebay.
>> And that the best solution would be, that the meteorites and the crater
>> would be property of the Peruvian state as national treasure + that the
>> Peruvian scientists would be experienced enough to handle the case.
>>
>> In the same mails and later we read, that you not only have bought some
>> material at a not directly generous price, but that you bought it from the
>> local authorities, who had confiscated the material from people, who
>> collected it illegally (according your own words).
>> To give money to authorities to obtain secured material - hence either
>> property of state or in custody of the state is a simple act of corruption.
>>
>> And contradicting your own moral standards you started immediately to fence
>> those stones via ebay and to dealers like Matteo.
>>
>> After on the list was discussed, that there is a probability that the main
>> mass could exist below the crater and Farmer/Karl/Ward travelled to the
>> site, you showed an immediate eagerness to lead an initiative to excavate
>> it.
>>
>> Now, when they entered the scene offering the locals - remember your own
>> mails, who are poor and should profit from that situation - a much higher
>> and adequate price for the material, which they collected than you did with
>> your (seen from the collectors point of view) ridiculous price,
>> you seem not to be delighted.
>>
>> And furthermore you condemn, that they sensitized the population about the
>> importance of that case, in giving them a more adequate imagination that the
>> possible main mass is more important than the crater and that it has a high
>> value, which lead to the exact result, which you always wanted from the
>> beginning on, but which you weren't able to accomplish,
>> that the importance and the basic necessity to act was finally recognized on
>> a national level. Instead to be happy about that, and also that the area is
>> now protected by police from further "looting", you call it now an
>> "irreparable damage".
>>
>> And with all respect, the questions about meteorites, you posed here on the
>> list, give not directly an impression, that you're an expert in meteoritics,
>> neither do I see, why you should be entitled for the " all your work at
>> preservation" and not rather the Peruvian scientists, who - at least you
>> expressed it so in one of your early mails - are in your opinion
>> sufficiently trained to investigate that fall.
>>
>> So even if we let that strange issues from the private mails Farmer
>> published here aside,
>> the observer will see a remarkable bigo

Re: [meteorite-list] Lake Titicaca Meteorite - proposal for new name

2007-10-03 Thread Norbert Classen
"Dr. Daniels", dear List Members,

So you want "full disclosure"?

Like McCartney Taylor, I would also like to know the institution you did
your PhD at... And, could you please enlighten us why you are operating
under two different names, one claiming a (questionable?) academic degree? I
don't know for the laws in your country, but at least in Europe it's a
criminal offense to use fake academic degrees or to attach an academic
degree to a fictional name. JFYI.

On another issue: in several posts you claimed that you'd respect the
(indigenous) people in South America, local laws, etc. pp. But then you
wrote:

> Additonally, naming it Lake Titicaca allows Bolivia to share. It is
> right on the boarder (political). There is a saying in Peru about the
> lake. Peru has the titty and Boliva has the caca. :)

While the first part of your statement is true - the fall area of this new
meteorite is actually not too far away from the famous ruins of Tihuanaku on
the Bolivian side of the border - the people in Bolivia would certainly not
be amused by your "joke"... (I seriously doubt that it's a Peruvian saying
as it doesn't make much sense in Quechua or Aymara, and not even in the
usual South American "Castillano".) I wonder what my old friend and teacher
Dr. Jorge Miranda-Luizaga from the Ministerio de Justicia, Bolivia, would
make of this, and your attitude of being a "big fish" in the Lake Titicaca
(area), or in South America at large? If you like, I can ask him.

You seem to believe that you can insult everyone - the scientific community
by using a (questionable?) academic degree, and attaching it to the name of
a Whiskey brand (I got this from one of your recent emails to this list);
other meteorite hunters who did nothing else than you (buying pieces of this
meteorites from the locals), and then calling them criminals; the people of
Bolivia; and last but not least the members of this list by playing silly
games with us. At least I'm disgusted, and sick of it. 

Sincerelly,
Norbert Classen
www.meteoris.de 

PS: If you respond to this email please make sure to sign with your REAL
name, or am I expecting too much???


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[meteorite-list] Current inventory of Randall's Lake Titicaca meteorite collection

2007-10-03 Thread Dr. Richard Daniels
I want full disclosure.

I am starting to organize, photograph, and record my stones. Right
now, I'm in the donation stage but I will be selling one 8.2 gram
stone on eBay to help defray the cost of my trip and hopefully provide
me with funds to make another Carancas expedition shortly. That one
eBay auction will determine a lot of things.

Because of all the accusations, I will list the entire lot of stones
on an Excel spreadsheet and make it available as requested. I want
full disclosure, and this spreadsheet will show all donations and
sales to various organizations and individuals. To date, nothing has
been sold or shipped, just tentative donations.

Dr. Richard Daniels
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[meteorite-list] Mark Bostick`s meteorite chatroom open for discussion--sorry bounced

2007-10-03 Thread drtanuki

> 
> All,
> 
> As above.  Thank you Mark Bostick!
> 
> Dirk...Tokyo
> 
> http://www.meteoritearticles.com/chatroom.html
> 
> http://www.meteoritearticles.com/colwichita.html
> 
> 
> 

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[meteorite-list] Mark Bostick chatroom open third try bounced again

2007-10-03 Thread drtanuki
List,

Please join Mark Bostick`s chatroom for discussion.

Thank you Mark!

http://www.meteoritearticles.com/chatroom.html

Dirk Ross...Tokyo
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[meteorite-list] Mark Bostick`s meteorite chatroom open for discussion

2007-10-03 Thread drtanuki
All,

As above.  Thank you Mark Bostick!

Dirk...Tokyo

http://www.meteoritearticles.com/chatroom.html

http://www.meteoritearticles.com/colwichita.html


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[meteorite-list] Fw: News and Views in Peru

2007-10-03 Thread Jose Campos

yes, that's correct: caza = hunter;  cazameteoritos = meteorite hunter

José Campos
Portugal

- Original Message - 
From: "drtanuki" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Sterling K. Webb" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; 


Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2007 9:40 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] News and Views in Peru



Sterling and All,

 Caza- chasers, hunters.

Dirk Ross...Tokyo


--- "Sterling K. Webb" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:


Hi, All,

Beyond the views of Randall Richard Daniels
Gregory
on Mike Farmer, it seems that others in Peru are not
happy
with him. Taking no sides, just the messenger,
folks.

Here's a Peruvian news article:





Here's a cleaned up machine translation:



---


[Headline]  They try to deal in pieces of the fallen
meteorite

[Subhead]  A group of Americans came with this
purpose
  to Carancas.

The president of the Geophysical Institute of
Peru (IGP),
Ronald Woodman, denounced the group of Americans
directed by Michael Farmer (famous searcher of
meteors in
the world) that tries to deal in remains of the
meteorite that
fell [down] in the locality of Carancas in the
middle of the
past September.

"They sneak in [literally, "glide"] to initiate
the excavations
to extract the remains at the border with Bolivia,
since the
meteorite fell [down] within one kilometer of the
border with
this country," Woodman declared.

It [is] recounted that the group of five North
Americans
have come to the place with the support of the
Police and that
seemingly the settlers [villagers] negotiated with
these "merchants
of meteorites."

Ronald Woodman said that the "cazameteoritos"
would be
taking advantage of the ignorance of the settlers on
the real
value of the objects. There are not many in the
world; they are
valuable pieces for museums and collectors, as noted
below.

The facts:

TRAFFIC. The citizen Michael Farmer sold a lunar
fragment
of approximately 1 kg found near to Agadir (Morocco)
for
1.5 million dollars



---


It would appear that entering the country from
Bolivia,
one mile away, with an international airport in
nearby LaPaz,
is inherently suspicious to some Peruvians.

There is an implication (but no direct
statement) that
"trafficing" in meteorites is a shady quasi-legal
affair, as there
is much emphasis on the fact that Mike buys and
sells them.
I wish I knew what "cazameteoritos" means but the
online
translator won't translate it (nor the word "caza"
either).
Meteorite traders? Meteorite peddlers? Meteorite
Con-men?


Sterling K. Webb


---


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Re: [meteorite-list] Question about shock veins...?

2007-10-03 Thread Rob McCafferty

--- ensoramanda <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


> My question is...Could it be possible that the shock
> veins were produced 
> as a direct result of the hypervelocity impact or is
> that not 
> possibleare they much more likely to be formed
> in space during 
> asteroid impacts.
> 


O. Richard Norton's book Encyclopedia of Meteorites
describes shock and the pressures required to create
the effects seen. 
I am pretty sure that the effects seen inside
meteorites are due to the asteroidal impacts and are
in fact ancient relics, not features of their impact
with earth.
Sterling is indeed a magnificent source of information
in this regard, without whom, this list would be
mostly a tiresome stream of rantings and adverts. Long
may he stay here and enlighten us.
I am sure he will be able to tell you catagorically
rather than the vague hunch from numbers I think I
have seen in the past (some from Sterling and almost
certainly remembered incorrectly)
I envision him sitting late of evenings with a pad and
pencil with a calculator just trying to solve our
problems. All right, I admit, I'm really in awe of the
fact that his maths is good enough to be able to do
it.

Great question Endorsorama. Not one I'd have
considered. 

Rob McC

(wow a metlist post that compliments people! rarer
than olivine dioginite)


   

Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who knows. 
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[meteorite-list] Lake Titicaca meteorite - The highest witnessed fall in history

2007-10-03 Thread Dr. Richard Daniels
Woud these be a true statements?

The only meteorite to fall in an area of one of the natural wonders of
the world.

The only meteorite fall know to make people ill

The highest witnessed fall in history at 3,843 msl.

Dr. Richard Daniels
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[meteorite-list] a suggestion from Captain Blood - lets see if the link works and you can click on it

2007-10-03 Thread Bob WALKER

Listoids

Captain Blood has kindly suggested I put the link more properly as 
http://www.qmig.org so youse can click on it


And a special message from Captain Blood and I

IMCA metstruck page has had a big update 
http://imca.repetti.net/metinfo/metstruck.html many new hammers are listed 
subtly - they are of course mostly referenced - last snapshot we recall only 
had up to Moss (referenced as 30) so any of them that are referenced 31 to 
41 are indeed newly listed hammers !


Its a bugger of a job to list all of them - you really have to read the blue 
book word by word - some of them that MB and I consider to be hammers arent 
listed eg Plainview and KN and I have traded email on this but they wont be 
listed unless proper references can be sighted and maybe listoids can help 
with this


More importantly MB and I are on the hunt for the new hammers and would ask 
if youse contact us off-list if you know of any for sale


Cheers 


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[meteorite-list] Fw: More Peru News, Including Locationa and Trajectory of Peru Impact

2007-10-03 Thread Jose Campos

Hi Paul,

Many thanks for the interesting links on the Titicaca (Carrancas?) meteor 
fligh path.

Best wishes,
José Campos
Portugal

- Original Message - 
From: "Paul" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: 
Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 8:52 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] More Peru News,Including Locationa and Trajectory 
of Peru Impact




Dear friends,

more about the Peru impact, including a figure showing the
location of the impact and presumed trajectory of the meteorite
can be found in:

Mysteries remain over Peru meteorite impact

by Jeff Hecht New Scientist, September 28, 2007

http://www.signs-of-the-times.org/articles/show/140757-Mysteries+remain+over+Peru+meteorite+impact

Inferred trajectory and location of impact shown at:

http://www.signs-of-the-times.org/image/image/3376/dn12704-3_800.jpg

Wild theories about meteorite in Peru discounted
Globe and Mail, Canada Sep 26, 2007

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20070926.wmeteor26/BNStory/Science/home

It came from space by Margaret Munro ,
CanWest News
Service, September 27, 2007

http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/story.html?id=965de176-30b8-4dcc-99c0-7afb84b996ad&k=40357

Yours,

Paul H.







Need a vacation? Get great deals
to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel.
http://travel.yahoo.com/
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[meteorite-list] News and Views in Peru

2007-10-03 Thread Mike Fowler



Hi Sterling,

"Cazameteoritos"  means meteorite hunter, or meteorite chaser.   
Nothing pejorative there, just an accurate description of Mike Farmer.


Sincerely,

Mike Fowler
Chicago

PS  My wife is Peruvian.



There is an implication (but no direct statement) that
"trafficing" in meteorites is a shady quasi-legal affair, as there
is much emphasis on the fact that Mike buys and sells them.
I wish I knew what "cazameteoritos" means but the online
translator won't translate it (nor the word "caza" either).
Meteorite traders? Meteorite peddlers? Meteorite Con-men?


Sterling K. Webb


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[meteorite-list] FW: Good Auctions Ending Today! Highlighted Links For Your Pleasure!

2007-10-03 Thread michael cottingham



From: michael cottingham [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2007 3:23 PM
To: 'michael cottingham'
Subject: AD: Good Auctions Ending Today! Highlighted Links For Your
Pleasure!

Hello everyone,

SPECIAL NOTE!  If you like inclusions and chondrules…you should go for a
walk through my ebay store and see what I added this week!

Today, I have about 40 auctions ending, these were started out at 0.99
cents. Also, there are about 80 more auctions, some with buy it now and some
with reduced opening prices. Also, there is a 20% off sale in my ebay store,
running throughout the day. 


Try this link for soon to end items:
http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQfbfmtZ1QQsabfmtsZ1QQsascsZ1QQsassZmeteoriteQ2dco
llector


or

http://stores.ebay.com/Voyage-Botanica-Natural-History




Check These Out!

A 47 gram Mesosiderite beauty!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200156874066

A 49 gram beautiful slice of NWA 4475, price is at $1.80 !
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200156874617

A good deal on an H5. NWA 4300,  A big 314 gram piece, with polished face!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200156875038

A 37 gram slice of Lahoma, Oklahoma, check out the inclusion in this one!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200156876308

NWA 4482, PALLASITE Specimen… please look, you won’t be disappointed, 26
grams!  Still at $4.80!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200156879394

Slice of NWA 2690, Eucrite, A 9.87 gram beautiful slice.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200156885811

A very lovely specimen of an EL3, NWA 2965,  36.68 grams. 
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200156888489

SPECIAL SPECIMEN!
A micro of a super rare fall from Sudan! This is a rarity. MALAKAL. You
don’t see this one too often, and it has fusion crust!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200156956975

An Australian Classic!  A 34.6 gram specimen of DALGETY DOWNS, Still a
bargin price for someone! Comes with Monnig Collection Label!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200156896574

A fantastic fusion crusted individual of SAU 001, 32 grams!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200156897129

A rare H7, 2.06 gram slice of NWA 4229. One of the rarest meteorites out
there…
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200156897813

A nice CV3 slice, still at 0.99 cents!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200156898832

An “R” Chondrite, R3.8 to be exact, nice 6.76 gram specimen. Still a deal
for someone.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200156893752

A 28.34 gram, slice of Vyatka, the Russian meteorite!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200156893470

Another great chance to add CALI, COLOMBIA to your collection… This one is a
part slice!  Started at 0.99 cents!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200156889587

The CHAVES, Howardite from Portugal! Rare, Rare, Rare and one of my last
pieces!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200156958114

For those of you who collect Big & Rare pieces… Roosevelt County 081, flight
oriented main mass.. last chance to own this one!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200156944687


Check out these really cool LL5 specimens. A lot of Chondrules in these
specimens… different shapes & sizes, I finally cut my big main mass and I am
glad that I did. Each slice was an adventure… very much worth a look even if
you don’t buy any!
http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?fsop=1&fsoo=1&from=R45&satitle=mete
orite+nwa+2380


Also, I have some of the finest specimens of SAU 001 that I have ever had! 
Galaxies of Chondrules.. must see to believe!  Check them out! Here is an
example, and I have more in my store and up for auction!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200159262467


 
Of course there are many, many more to see and choose from…

Go to:
http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQfbfmtZ1QQsabfmtsZ1QQsascsZ1QQsassZmeteoriteQ2dco
llector




Thanks and Best Wishes

Michael Cottingham













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Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorites-- they give you wings

2007-10-03 Thread Sterling K. Webb
Gaos and Gams!
Steve's Specialties!


Sterling K. Webb
---
- Original Message - 
From: "Darren Garrison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Meteorite List" 
Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2007 4:06 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorites-- they give you wings


http://www.chicagometeorites.net/id44.html
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[meteorite-list] Dr. Daniels

2007-10-03 Thread mccartney
Could we know the institution you did your PhD at?  Just to verify and 
ascertain the validity of your character. 





Sent via the WebMail system at blackbearddata.com


 
   
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Re: [meteorite-list] News and Views in Peru

2007-10-03 Thread Sterling K. Webb
Hi, Dirk, Paco, List

Thanks for pinning that down.

Francisco wrote:
> But this articles sounds really offensive, with bad intention, in
> Spanish. Then English translation seems softer.

I knew the article was critical, but tone is harder to
catch, especially with an online translator in a language
where your knowledge is sketchy (like mine of Spanish).

I think that, in Mike's case, "Meteorite Chaser"
is closer to the mark! A lot of hunters sit and wait,
something he seems to hardly get a chance to do.


Sterling K. Webb
--
- Original Message - 
From: "drtanuki" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Sterling K. Webb" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; 

Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2007 3:40 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] News and Views in Peru


Sterling and All,

  Caza- chasers, hunters.

Dirk Ross...Tokyo


--- "Sterling K. Webb" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

> I wish I knew what "cazameteoritos" means but the
> online
> translator won't translate it (nor the word "caza"
> either).
> Meteorite traders? Meteorite peddlers? Meteorite
> Con-men?
>
>
> Sterling K. Webb
>
---

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[meteorite-list] Meteorites-- they give you wings

2007-10-03 Thread Darren Garrison
http://www.chicagometeorites.net/id44.html
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Re: [meteorite-list] WAAAAAH! Mikey got a booboo

2007-10-03 Thread Bob Evans

Thaddeus,

Im sorry but I dont have time to read every post.
Could you elaborate on your comments. Im curious about your opinion.

Thanks,
BE
- Original Message - 
From: "Thaddeus Besedin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: 
Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2007 2:20 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] WAH! Mikey got a booboo



List,
Defend your source, but don't ask questions as to his
ethics.
With Mike's impulse disorder evident, who indeed is
nursing a bottle?




Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who 
knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.

http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545469
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Re: [meteorite-list] Dr. Richard Daniels is a pseudonym for RandallGregory, my way of not asking peo

2007-10-03 Thread Pete Pete





My sentiments, exactly, Martin!



Pete





> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
> Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 13:24:33 +0200
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Dr. Richard Daniels is a pseudonym for 
> RandallGregory, my way of not asking people to post for me
>
> Mr. Randall,
>
> I think I'm not the only one on that list here, who has the feeling, that
> your posts are highly inconsistent.
>
> First we could read from you, that you're not sure about, that there is a
> main mass some down below in the soil at all and that the crater/pit should
> be preserved.
> We read, that the poor locals should profit from the finds made there, that
> all fragments collected and sold by locals without agreement of the land
> owner are stolen goods and how immoral it is to sell such goods on ebay.
> And that the best solution would be, that the meteorites and the crater
> would be property of the Peruvian state as national treasure + that the
> Peruvian scientists would be experienced enough to handle the case.
>
> In the same mails and later we read, that you not only have bought some
> material at a not directly generous price, but that you bought it from the
> local authorities, who had confiscated the material from people, who
> collected it illegally (according your own words).
> To give money to authorities to obtain secured material - hence either
> property of state or in custody of the state is a simple act of corruption.
>
> And contradicting your own moral standards you started immediately to fence
> those stones via ebay and to dealers like Matteo.
>
> After on the list was discussed, that there is a probability that the main
> mass could exist below the crater and Farmer/Karl/Ward travelled to the
> site, you showed an immediate eagerness to lead an initiative to excavate
> it.
>
> Now, when they entered the scene offering the locals - remember your own
> mails, who are poor and should profit from that situation - a much higher
> and adequate price for the material, which they collected than you did with
> your (seen from the collectors point of view) ridiculous price,
> you seem not to be delighted.
>
> And furthermore you condemn, that they sensitized the population about the
> importance of that case, in giving them a more adequate imagination that the
> possible main mass is more important than the crater and that it has a high
> value, which lead to the exact result, which you always wanted from the
> beginning on, but which you weren't able to accomplish,
> that the importance and the basic necessity to act was finally recognized on
> a national level. Instead to be happy about that, and also that the area is
> now protected by police from further "looting", you call it now an
> "irreparable damage".
>
> And with all respect, the questions about meteorites, you posed here on the
> list, give not directly an impression, that you're an expert in meteoritics,
> neither do I see, why you should be entitled for the " all your work at
> preservation" and not rather the Peruvian scientists, who - at least you
> expressed it so in one of your early mails - are in your opinion
> sufficiently trained to investigate that fall.
>
> So even if we let that strange issues from the private mails Farmer
> published here aside,
> the observer will see a remarkable bigotry in your emails and will most
> probably come to the conclusion, that your motivation isn't morale but
> profane greed.
>
> Regards,
> Martin
>
>
>
> -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
> Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Im Auftrag von Dr.
> Richard Daniels
> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 3. Oktober 2007 11:46
> An: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
> Betreff: [meteorite-list] Dr. Richard Daniels is a pseudonym for
> RandallGregory, my way of not asking people to post for me
>
> XXX,
>
> This is critical, I'll try to post but if it doesn't make it could you
> send it to someone that will post. I know you want to stay out of the
> middle.
>
> I reviewed the report sent in by Mr. Farmer today and then I asked my
> Peruvian wife to her to call my friends in Desaguadero to find out
> what the situation is. I read Mike's field report and he had mentioned
> that they started to pump out the water in the crater and I was
> curious to know if they found the meteorite.
>
> This is the story as my wife is relating to me after she talked to my
> friend. Major Victor Anaya Barrientos of the Peruvian National Police
> located in the town of Desaguadero.
>
> Apparently, Mike and his associated went to the town of Desaguadero
> and used their method of posting flyers and soliciting citizens to
> sell them meteorites.They told people that the meteorite pieces were
> very very valuable and they would pay good money for any samples. I
> guess they made offers on a per gram basis that sent these people into
> a frenzy. They never went to the municipality and asked for any kind
> of permission. And they never made any contacts with scie

[meteorite-list] QMIG update - sorry if this is a repeat post but I aint sure if it got thru...

2007-10-03 Thread Bob WALKER

Listoids

www.qmig.org

Update of news page only but more to follow...

EMP of Tenham strewnfield seven happens today at JCU

Rumblings that the EMP of the Birdsville Seven may even arrive soon...

Maybe some more pictures later today

I have to do a mark one eyeball comparison of a thin-section of a known lake 
Machattie that will be ready late today and of my Lake Machattie 2 - wait 
and see if they are paired or not ?


Cheers 


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[meteorite-list] In defense of Mike

2007-10-03 Thread Dr. Richard Daniels
Mike made some mistakes. I think he realizes that sometimes certain
techniques to obtain meteorites in some countries, will not work in
others. I know he will be more careful when he travels. I believe Mike
will now take the time to learn about the people that he deals with.
With this knowledge, I'm certain he'll represent the meteorite
community as a true professional.


Dr. Richard Daniels
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[meteorite-list] RFS Picture of the Day: Wafer-thin slice ofTatahouine in Backlighting

2007-10-03 Thread bernd . pauli
Hello List,

Someone asked in a private mail: "What's mosaicism?"

Here's an excellent explanation by O.R. Norton - it can be
found in "Cambridge Encyclopedia of Meteorites", p. 344:

"A characteristic of a mineral crystal seen microscopically under
crossed polarizers in which extinction is not uniform but checkered
into a mosaic pattern due to small irregularities within the crystal.
This occurs when the crystal has been distorted by shock metamorphism.
Mosaicism is an indicator of shock effects produced by an impacting
body."

I am glad someone asked this question as it may be the answer to my
own question about those dark bands in Tatahouine: "Does anybody
have any information about the nature of the dark bands that are visible
not only in this backlit specimen but usually in all Tatahouine specimens?
Shock darkening?"

Best wishes,

Bernd

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[meteorite-list] In defense of Mike

2007-10-03 Thread Dr. Richard Daniels
Mike made some mistakes. I think he realizes that sometimes certain
techniques to obtain meteorites in some countries, will not work in
others. I know he will be more careful when he travels. I believe Mike
will now take the time to learn about the people that he deals with.
With this knowledge, I'm certain he'll represent the meteorite
community as a true professional.


Dr. Richard Daniels
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[meteorite-list] Lake Titicaca Meteorite - proposal for new name

2007-10-03 Thread Dr. Richard Daniels
Lake Titicaca is the highest navigable lake in the world located in
the land of the Incas. This area is also the center of Peruvian
Forklore. Oceanographer Jacques Yves Cousteau spent eight weeks using
mini-subs to explore for a 2,000 lb. chain of gold thrown into the
lake by the Incas to prevent it being taken from the Spanish. A new
species of frog was found in the lake. A frog that never surfaces! In
the year 2000, a huge ancient underwater temple was discovered
measuring 660 ft. long by 160ft. wide dating back almost 1,500 years.

Additonally, naming it Lake Titicaca allows Bolivia to share. It is
right on the boarder (political). There is a saying in Peru about the
lake. Peru has the titty and Boliva has the caca. :)

A meteorite couldn't have hit in a more beautiful place. I propose
Lake Titicaca meteorite. I also propose that the met-list votes on
this. Then, would anyone like to support start the submission to the
Meteoritical Society?

Dr. Richard Daniels
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Re: [meteorite-list] News and Views in Peru

2007-10-03 Thread drtanuki
Sterling and All,

  Caza- chasers, hunters.

Dirk Ross...Tokyo


--- "Sterling K. Webb" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

> Hi, All,
> 
> Beyond the views of Randall Richard Daniels
> Gregory
> on Mike Farmer, it seems that others in Peru are not
> happy
> with him. Taking no sides, just the messenger,
> folks.
> 
> Here's a Peruvian news article:
>

> 
> Here's a cleaned up machine translation:
> 
>
---
> 
> [Headline]  They try to deal in pieces of the fallen
> meteorite
> 
> [Subhead]  A group of Americans came with this
> purpose
>   to Carancas.
> 
> The president of the Geophysical Institute of
> Peru (IGP),
> Ronald Woodman, denounced the group of Americans
> directed by Michael Farmer (famous searcher of
> meteors in
> the world) that tries to deal in remains of the
> meteorite that
> fell [down] in the locality of Carancas in the
> middle of the
> past September.
> 
> "They sneak in [literally, "glide"] to initiate
> the excavations
> to extract the remains at the border with Bolivia,
> since the
> meteorite fell [down] within one kilometer of the
> border with
> this country," Woodman declared.
> 
> It [is] recounted that the group of five North
> Americans
> have come to the place with the support of the
> Police and that
> seemingly the settlers [villagers] negotiated with
> these "merchants
> of meteorites."
> 
> Ronald Woodman said that the "cazameteoritos"
> would be
> taking advantage of the ignorance of the settlers on
> the real
> value of the objects. There are not many in the
> world; they are
> valuable pieces for museums and collectors, as noted
> below.
> 
> The facts:
> 
> TRAFFIC. The citizen Michael Farmer sold a lunar
> fragment
> of approximately 1 kg found near to Agadir (Morocco)
> for
> 1.5 million dollars
> 
>
---
> 
> It would appear that entering the country from
> Bolivia,
> one mile away, with an international airport in
> nearby LaPaz,
> is inherently suspicious to some Peruvians.
> 
> There is an implication (but no direct
> statement) that
> "trafficing" in meteorites is a shady quasi-legal
> affair, as there
> is much emphasis on the fact that Mike buys and
> sells them.
> I wish I knew what "cazameteoritos" means but the
> online
> translator won't translate it (nor the word "caza"
> either).
> Meteorite traders? Meteorite peddlers? Meteorite
> Con-men?
> 
> 
> Sterling K. Webb
>
---
> 
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[meteorite-list] Question about shock veins...?

2007-10-03 Thread ensoramanda

Hi,

In the photos of the Carancas meteorite I posted recently it is obvious 
that it is full of shock veins.  Mike Farmer also mentioned this 
characteristic in his pieces and that it had fragmented along some of 
these veins. My photographs show what may be a surface like this...or it 
could be crust.


My question is...Could it be possible that the shock veins were produced 
as a direct result of the hypervelocity impact or is that not 
possibleare they much more likely to be formed in space during 
asteroid impacts.


Stirling has posted lots of info regarding the energy and forces 
possibly involved...could this have happened and the fragments collected 
show this striated surface along shock veins as a result?


...check out the 3rd and last two photos to see this surfacereminds 
me of some of the marks on Sikhote alin shrapnel...but obviously formed 
by some other mechanism in this.


http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o43/LaburnumStudio/DSCN6903.jpg
http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o43/LaburnumStudio/DSCN6902.jpg
http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o43/LaburnumStudio/DSCN6901.jpg
http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o43/LaburnumStudio/DSCN6899.jpg
http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o43/LaburnumStudio/DSCN6898.jpg
http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o43/LaburnumStudio/DSCN6897.jpg
http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o43/LaburnumStudio/DSCN6894.jpg

Graham Ensor



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[meteorite-list] News and Views in Peru

2007-10-03 Thread Sterling K. Webb
Hi, All,

Beyond the views of Randall Richard Daniels Gregory
on Mike Farmer, it seems that others in Peru are not happy
with him. Taking no sides, just the messenger, folks.

Here's a Peruvian news article:


Here's a cleaned up machine translation:

---

[Headline]  They try to deal in pieces of the fallen meteorite

[Subhead]  A group of Americans came with this purpose
  to Carancas.

The president of the Geophysical Institute of Peru (IGP),
Ronald Woodman, denounced the group of Americans
directed by Michael Farmer (famous searcher of meteors in
the world) that tries to deal in remains of the meteorite that
fell [down] in the locality of Carancas in the middle of the
past September.

"They sneak in [literally, "glide"] to initiate the excavations
to extract the remains at the border with Bolivia, since the
meteorite fell [down] within one kilometer of the border with
this country," Woodman declared.

It [is] recounted that the group of five North Americans
have come to the place with the support of the Police and that
seemingly the settlers [villagers] negotiated with these "merchants
of meteorites."

Ronald Woodman said that the "cazameteoritos" would be
taking advantage of the ignorance of the settlers on the real
value of the objects. There are not many in the world; they are
valuable pieces for museums and collectors, as noted below.

The facts:

TRAFFIC. The citizen Michael Farmer sold a lunar fragment
of approximately 1 kg found near to Agadir (Morocco) for
1.5 million dollars

---

It would appear that entering the country from Bolivia,
one mile away, with an international airport in nearby LaPaz,
is inherently suspicious to some Peruvians.

There is an implication (but no direct statement) that
"trafficing" in meteorites is a shady quasi-legal affair, as there
is much emphasis on the fact that Mike buys and sells them.
I wish I knew what "cazameteoritos" means but the online
translator won't translate it (nor the word "caza" either).
Meteorite traders? Meteorite peddlers? Meteorite Con-men?


Sterling K. Webb
---

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[meteorite-list] Lake Titicaca Meteorite - proposal for new name

2007-10-03 Thread Dr. Richard Daniels
Lake Titicaca is the highest navigable lake in the world located in
the land of the Incas. This area is also the center of Peruvian
Forklore. Oceanographer Jacques Yves Cousteau spent eight weeks using
mini-subs to explore for a 2,000 lb. chain of gold thrown into the
lake by the Incas to prevent it being taken from the Spanish. A new
species of frog was found in the lake. A frog that never surfaces! In
the year 2000, a huge ancient underwater temple was discovered
measuring 660 ft. long by 160ft. wide dating back almost 1,500 years.

Additonally, naming it Lake Titicaca allows Bolivia to share. It is
right on the boarder (political). There is a saying in Peru about the
lake. Peru has the titty and Boliva has the caca. :)

A meteorite couldn't have hit in a more beautiful place. I propose
Lake Titicaca meteorite. I also propose that the met-list votes on
this. Then, would anyone like to support start the submission to the
Meteoritical Society?

Dr. Richard Daniels
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[meteorite-list] WAAAAAH! Mikey got a booboo

2007-10-03 Thread Thaddeus Besedin
List, 
Defend your source, but don't ask questions as to his
ethics.
 With Mike's impulse disorder evident, who indeed is
nursing a bottle?


   

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[meteorite-list] Carancas or Titicaca? More data and a thin section of the stone

2007-10-03 Thread Sterling K. Webb
Hi, Jeff, List

I used the word "convention" in the sense that it
is "conventional" to do so, as most meteorites carry
the name of a human settlement of some kind. Technically,
it's the nearest "place name" that is unambiguously
locatable that is required.

http://www.meteoriticalsociety.org/bulletin/nc-guidelines.htm
"3.1 Geographic features. A new meteorite shall be
named after a nearby geographical locality. Every effort
should be made to avoid unnecessary duplication or ambiguity,
and to select a permanent feature such as a town, village, river,
bay, cape, mountain or island which appears on widely used
maps and is sufficiently close to the recovery site to convey
meaningful locality information. In sparsely populated areas
with few place names, less permanent features such as ranches
or stations or, in extreme cases, local unofficial names of
distinctive quality may be used, provided the latitude and
longitude of the recovery site are well determined. The names
of large geographic features such as continents, countries,
provinces, states, and large counties should be avoided if
names that are more specific are available, except as specified
in §3.3 and §3.4. In general, the selected feature should be the
closest such feature to the site of the recovery. If, for example,
the name of the nearest town is already used, the meteorite should
not be named for the next nearest town. In such a case, a different
geographic feature (e.g., a stream) should be selected, if available
(if not, §3.3 applies)."

However, the village of Carancas is such a feature and
appears to be much closer to the crater than Lake Titicaca.
Randall Gregory says the crater is virtually on the banks
of the Lake, but it doesn't look that way on these maps.

Maps of the locale can be found at this site:
http://www.earthfiles.com/news.php?ID=1321&category=Science

The site also contains the full text of the INGEMMET initial
report (but NOT all the pictures) which contains interesting data.
There is an interview with Jose Machero, one of the authors of
the INGEMMET report (in which he says that the water table there
is one meter below grade).

The full INGEMMET report, with more thin section photos than
the above reference, including polarized views, can also be found at:
http://www.ingemmet.gob.pe/

Go over to the right and click on the Carancas link.

Some quotes from that report:

Impact location
Country Peru
Region  Puno
ProvinceChucuito
District  Desaguadero
CommunityCarancas
Coordinates   Lat: 16°39'52"S  Long: 69°02'38"W 
Elev: 3 824 m a.s.l.

General description of the phenomenon
(Only anecdotic information based upon witnesses' declarations)
Apparent displacement azimuth of the object: towards N030°E.
The object was observed since it was at about 1 000 m from the earth 
surface.
The object presented a strongly luminous head (white light) and a white 
smoky queue.
No other objects were observed to fall after the main body.
There was a strong explosion that was felt up to Desaguadero city
20 km from the impact site.
Some window glasses of the Local Health Center (at 1 km
from the site) were broken.
The explosion "sound" lasts about 15 minutes (!)
After the impact, boiling water was seen in the crater,
and a smoke column was formed that lasts for several minutes.
A "sulfurous" smell was reported there.

General description of effects on ground

The impact created a crater when collided with the soft
ground (reddish brown soil). The crater is composed
by a hole and an ejecta rim. The central hole became a
pond, by infill with groundwater that crops out after the
impact (figure 2). The following table gives the diameters
and other measures of the geoform.

N to S -- Pond 7.4 m -- Rim 13.3 m
E to W -- Pond 7.8 m -- Rim 13.8 m

The maximum rim height was 1 m above the original soil
level, and was seen in the northern border. The photo of
figure 2 is looking northward. Dispersal ejecta made by
brown soil with grey patina (meteorite powder), up to 5 cm
in diameter were found at 200 m from the impact point.

Three days after the fall, water in the pond was 1 m below
the original soil level. It presented turbid brown aspect, with
pH = 7.8, temperature 17.9°C, conductivity > 4000 milisiems,
and total suspended solids > 2000 ppm. (Measurements by
Prof. Mario Soto, Univ. of Altiplano, Puno).

Composition

Thin and polished sections were prepared for petro-mineralogic
determinations under optical microscope. The results revealed
chondritic texture and a mineral composition including:

Pyroxene 140%
Olivine  20%
Feldspar10%
Pyroxene 210%

Opaque minerals total about 20% and include:

Kamacite   15%
Troilite 5%
Cromite traces
Native Cu  traces


Sterling K. Webb
--
- Original Message - 
From:

Re: [meteorite-list] Carancas Meteorite photos....again!

2007-10-03 Thread Dr. Richard Daniels
I can start to upload some digital photos of meteorite's in my
possession if anyone would care to host.

Randall

On 10/3/07, ensoramanda <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I'll try this one more timeposted it once already but folks seem
> more interested in discussing other peoples arguments than looking at
> some detailed shots of the actual meteorite.
>
> I obtained these photographs from a Bolivian Mineral dealer who seems to
> have been to the Carancas area and found several kilo's of the
> meteorite.  Not sure exactly if he bought them or collected them near
> the crater or elsewhere further back down the strewnfield...they look
> very fresh.. Comparing them with others so far I think they look
> genuine.  I would be glad of anyones comments on this 9.8g fragment.
>
> Here they are...hope this post isnt delayed like the others last night!!
>
> http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o43/LaburnumStudio/DSCN6903.jpg
> http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o43/LaburnumStudio/DSCN6902.jpg
> http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o43/LaburnumStudio/DSCN6901.jpg
> http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o43/LaburnumStudio/DSCN6899.jpg
> http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o43/LaburnumStudio/DSCN6898.jpg
> http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o43/LaburnumStudio/DSCN6897.jpg
> http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o43/LaburnumStudio/DSCN6894.jpg
>
>
> Graham Ensor
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[meteorite-list] Carancas meteorite - research paper #1 - Effects of meteorite dust on mucus membranes

2007-10-03 Thread Dr. Richard Daniels
Greetings,

1)  I believe nobody in Carancas knew what impacted. Their first
thought was that an airplane had crashed as did the people in Aplao,
Chiclayo and Cusco. A normal and natural reaction. This is all they
know, because sometimes airplane fly over.

I am speculating. If it had been a nuclear-powered satellite, then the
police from Desaguadero would be dead by now.  Fair assumption?

2) Wrong assumption. The police collected them because people were
getting sick. This is a very close-nit community, and they were trying
to protect the people. In my opinion, they were heroic.

3) Yes, I agree. Mike is welcome back into Peru to volunteer his
services to search for strewnfields as is any other person with
legitimate interest. I've heard reports of other impacts in a 25 km
radius and there may be quite a bit of other material.

4) Yes, thank you. :)

I would like to add, that when my wife was pouring grains of meteorite
dust from a bottle I bought from Justina. She said her nose felt like
the stinging of a thousand little bees. (Spanish interpretation).

Would anyone care to do analysis on the effects of this meteoric dust
(vaporized and aerosolized) on mucusoal membranes. If so, what would
be the minimum you would require for analysis? Include credentials
please. I be happy to send some, just pay for shipping.

Randall
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[meteorite-list] Carancas meteorite - research paper #1 - Effects of meteorite dust on mucus membranes

2007-10-03 Thread Dr. Richard Daniels
Greetings,

1)  I believe nobody in Carancas knew what impacted. Their first
thought was that an airplane had crashed as did the people in Aplao,
Chiclayo and Cusco. A normal and natural reaction. This is all they
know, because sometimes airplane fly over.

I am speculating. If it had been a nuclear-powered satellite, then the
police from Desaguadero would be dead by now.  Fair assumption?

2) Wrong assumption. The police collected them because people were
getting sick. This is a very close-nit community, and they were trying
to protect the people. In my opinion, they were heroic.

3) Yes, I agree. Mike is welcome back into Peru to volunteer his
services to search for strewnfields as is any other person with
legitimate interest. I've heard reports of other impacts in a 25 km
radius and there may be quite a bit of other material.

4) Yes, thank you. :)

I would like to add, that when my wife was pouring grains of meteorite
dust from a bottle I bought from Justina. She said her nose felt like
the stinging of a thousand little bees. (Spanish interpretation).

Would anyone care to do analysis on the effects of this meteoric dust
(vaporized and aerosolized) on mucusoal membranes. If so, what would
be the minimum you would require for analysis? Include credentials
please. I be happy to send some, just pay for shipping.

Randall
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[meteorite-list] Carancas Meteorite photos....again!

2007-10-03 Thread ensoramanda

Hi all,

I'll try this one more timeposted it once already but folks seem 
more interested in discussing other peoples arguments than looking at 
some detailed shots of the actual meteorite.


I obtained these photographs from a Bolivian Mineral dealer who seems to 
have been to the Carancas area and found several kilo's of the 
meteorite.  Not sure exactly if he bought them or collected them near 
the crater or elsewhere further back down the strewnfield...they look 
very fresh.. Comparing them with others so far I think they look 
genuine.  I would be glad of anyones comments on this 9.8g fragment.


Here they are...hope this post isnt delayed like the others last night!!

http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o43/LaburnumStudio/DSCN6903.jpg
http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o43/LaburnumStudio/DSCN6902.jpg
http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o43/LaburnumStudio/DSCN6901.jpg
http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o43/LaburnumStudio/DSCN6899.jpg
http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o43/LaburnumStudio/DSCN6898.jpg
http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o43/LaburnumStudio/DSCN6897.jpg
http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o43/LaburnumStudio/DSCN6894.jpg


Graham Ensor
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[meteorite-list] Carnacas smoke-trail photos MIKE FARMER.

2007-10-03 Thread Metorman46
Michael; Thank you very much for sharing your experiences and reporting on  
the peru meteorite fall.This seems to be a very important event judging from  
your reports of heat,mushroom cloud and large sulphur outgassing from the  
impact.Wow! what an experience for the teenager who photographed the smoke 
trail  
and other events associated with this fall.A real dream come true for any  
meteorite enthusiast.Job well done by the teenager and especially by you and  
your entourage.Thanks.
 
Best Regards;Herman Archer IMCA # 2770






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[meteorite-list] Test from MARSROX

2007-10-03 Thread Kevin Kichinka
Test
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[meteorite-list] RFS Picture of the Day: Waver-thin slice of Tatahouine in Backlighting

2007-10-03 Thread bernd . pauli
Hello All,

I would like to invite you to take a look at this fascinating,
translucent, wafer-thin slice of the Tatahouine diogenite.

I was thrilled to see and photograph this phenomenon called
mosaicism, these 90° cleavages and all these readily recognizable
crystal faces.

This dazzling white "arrowhead" (looks like the bow of a ship) in
the eight o'clock position probably represents the exact outlines
of that part of a euhedral pyroxene crystal!

Does anybody have any information about the nature of the dark
bands that are visible not only in this backlit specimen but usually
in all Tatahouine specimens? Shock darkening?

Well, while we are at it: We usually thank Michael Johnson for all
these beautiful pictures but have you ever thought about making a
donation? Saying "Thank you!" is fine but webspace costs money!

Michael added me to the contribution list today. See here:

http://www.spacerocksinc.com/RSPOD_2007.html

Well, my $20 won't make a huge difference - but 10x, 20x or 30x that
amount by several list members will have an "impact" and we can thus
make sure that Michael can continue letting us enjoy list members' out-
standing photographic contributions!!!

Best wishes,

Bernd



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Re: [meteorite-list] Carancas

2007-10-03 Thread E.P. Grondine
Hi all - 

Some topics:

1) The Soviet Union manufactured nuclear powered
reconnaissance satellites.  One fell in Canada some
years back. I don't know where the cores from the rest
are now - sorry, stroke. As Carancas is clearly not
one of these, perhaps sulfuric acid fumes account for
the illnesses.

2) Scaling laws are a poorly defined and for the most
part classified.  Digging out a good publicly
available scaling law for my book "Man and Impact in
the Americas" was tough, and I still don't know if I
applied it correctly.  The numbers I gave for impacts
during man's evolution should be ball park accurate. 
Sterling, they're in the book. I wish I had been able
to check them with you before publication. Sorry,
stroke, you know.

3) I may not have the sequence right here, but it
appears that the police seized what fragments they
could from the people who had illegally collected 
them from the land owner's land.  The money the police
received from Mr. Farmer should go to the land owner,
unless the fragments were collected elsewhere, or the
collectors had permission to hunt. I believe that is
how the law has evolved here, but I may be mistaken.

4) It strikes me that the appropriate course for Mike
now would be to enlist the local people to try and
recover those "impossible" fragments from along the
flight path.  

5) Governmental institutions is Peru move as slowly as
those elsewhere. It would appear that the recovery
will have to be a local effort, involving the mayor
and the local people. Remember to dig a pit latrine
nearby.

6) According to oral tradition, the area
(specifically, on the road to Cuzco) was hit by
fragments of Comet Encke around 580 CE, leading to the
collapse of the Pukara (Man and Impact in the
Americas, pages 224-226). Given the cometary source, I
doubt if any fragments remain in the field there, but
who knows?

Of course, we'll all be entertained over the coming
weeks by accounts from the field of how events
progress.  

good hunting, 
E.P. Grondine
Man and Impact in the Americas



 



 














   

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[meteorite-list] Rocks From Space Picture of the Day - Update

2007-10-03 Thread SPACEROCKSINC
Rocks From Space Picture of the Day  
updated:
http://www.spacerocksinc.com/RSPOD_2007.html

Regards,
Michael  Johnson
www.spacerocksinc.com
www.sikhote-alin.org  




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[meteorite-list] Huge Rare Sale, Extra 15% Off - AD

2007-10-03 Thread Greg Hupe

Dear List Members,

In celebration of finally being up and running and appear to have a solid 
Internet connection, I have loaded 160 eBay auctions today, all with Buy it 
Now (general descriptions below). I would like to extend an extra 15% 
discount to List members this week on the Buy it Now prices. Simply "Click 
it", win it and then take the 15% off at time of payment, or email me ahead 
of time and I will discount the amount on the invoice I will send to you (if 
I send you a non-discounted invoice for the Buy it Now amount, send me an 
email and I will revise it). I also have 26 auctions ending in about 5 
hours, many still at just 99 cents. Here are a few excellent deals that will 
end later today:


Some auctions ending today:
NWA 1195 Martian
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=180163785326&ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT&ih=008
NWA 4472 Lunar
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=180163793522&ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT&ih=008
NWA 4527 Martian (Almost out!)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=180163793964&ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT&ih=008
NEA 001 Lunar
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=180163794491&ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT&ih=008

Buy it Now auctions loaded today:
NWA 4587 Ungrouped Achondrite paired to NWA 011
NWA 4468 Primitive Martian (Awesome!!!)
NWA 4590 "Tamassint" Angrite (Gorgeous and Fresh!)
NWA 4473 Brecciated Diogenite, slices and whole stones (Lunar-Like)
NWA 4527 Marian (Almost out)
NWA 4528 H5 - 500g Lots
NWA 4528 H5 - 1-kilo Wholesale Lots
NWA 869 L4-6 - 1-kilo Lots
Unclassifed Saharan - 2-kilo Lots

To see all of my eBay auctions currently running, please click here 
http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault If you have any questions, 
please feel free to email me off list.


NEW - NWA 2952, a CK4 Carbonaceous Chondrite Found in the Sahara Desert in 
2005.

This beautiful meteorite has a variety of colored chondrules and an
abundance of CAI's imbedded in a greenish-gray matrix. A Total Known Weight
of only 102 grams in a single stone is all there is of this example.

Close-up image of variety of colorful chondrules:
http://www.lunarrock.com/nwa2952/nwa2952a1.jpg
Close-up image of CAI's and chondrules:
http://www.lunarrock.com/nwa2952/nwa2952b1.jpg

Available NWA 2952 CK4 Specimens:
5.754g cs, $175.00
http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/nwa2952/dsc1.jpg
5.45g cs, $165.00
http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/nwa2952/dsc2.jpg
4.758g cs, $155.00
http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/nwa2952/dsc3.jpg
4.342g cs, $140.00
http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/nwa2952/dsc4.jpg
4.186g cs, $135.00
http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/nwa2952/dsc5.jpg
4.162g ec, $133.00
http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/nwa2952/dsc6.jpg
4.132g cs, $136.00
http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/nwa2952/dsc7.jpg
3.928g ec, $130.00
http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/nwa2952/dsc8.jpg
3.364g cs, $114.00
http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/nwa2952/dsc9.jpg
3.304g ec, $112.00
http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/nwa2952/dsc00010.jpg
3.224g ps, $106.00
http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/nwa2952/dsc00011.jpg
2.47g cs, $86.00
http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/nwa2952/dsc00012.jpg
2.268g cs, $80.00
http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/nwa2952/dsc00013.jpg
2.102g cs, $74.00
http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/nwa2952/dsc00014.jpg
1.974g ec, $70.00
http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/nwa2952/dsc00015.jpg
1.062g ps, $37.00
http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/nwa2952/dsc00017.jpg
686mg ps, $27.00
http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/nwa2952/dsc00018.jpg
596mg polished fragment, $24.00
http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/nwa2952/dsc00019.jpg
432mg polished fragment, $17.00
http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/nwa2952/dsc00021.jpg
324mg ps, $13.00
http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/nwa2952/dsc00022.jpg
cs - complete slice
ps - part slice
ec - end cut

Thank you for looking, I hope you find that special deal you have been 
waiting for!


Best regards,
Greg
P.S. Glad to be back to offer many rare and amazing meteorites I have been 
fortunate to acquire over the last few years.



Greg Hupe
The Hupe Collection
NaturesVault (eBay)
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.LunarRock.com
IMCA 3163

To see all of my eBay auctions currently running, please click here 
http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault



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Re: [meteorite-list] Bolide in Iraq?

2007-10-03 Thread Darren Garrison
On Wed, 3 Oct 2007 14:55:15 +0100, you wrote:

>Is anyone aware of a bolide event that might have occurred at 2130 GMT on 8 
>Aug 07 in the northern Iraq / southern Kurdistan region?
>
>
>
>A fireball, trailing a "corkscrew" shaped smoke trail was observed for 3-4 
>seconds travelling from South to North by the crew of a commercial aircraft.
>

Oh, great.  Now Allah's joining the fight.
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[meteorite-list] Bolide in Iraq?

2007-10-03 Thread Spaceguard
Is anyone aware of a bolide event that might have occurred at 2130 GMT on 8 
Aug 07 in the northern Iraq / southern Kurdistan region?




A fireball, trailing a "corkscrew" shaped smoke trail was observed for 3-4 
seconds travelling from South to North by the crew of a commercial aircraft.




It is most likely that the aircraft was under fire from a surface to air 
missile, but there are some aspects that don't jive!




Many thanks in advance.



Jay Tate

The Spaceguard Centre

http://www.spaceguarduk.com



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[meteorite-list] Oh, my!

2007-10-03 Thread Darren Garrison
http://www.cnn.com/2007/TECH/space/10/03/takei.asteroid.ap/index.html

Asteroid renamed for 'Star Trek' actor

NEW YORK (AP) -- A piece of outer space named for George Takei is in kind of a
rough neighborhood for somebody who steers a starship: an asteroid belt.An
asteroid between Mars and Jupiter has been renamed 7307 Takei in honor of the
actor, best known for his role as Hikaru Sulu in the original "Star Trek" series
and movies.

"I am now a heavenly body," Takei, 70, said Tuesday, laughing. "I found out
about it yesterday. ... I was blown away. It came out of the clear, blue sky --
just like an asteroid."

The celestial rock, discovered by two Japanese astronomers in 1994, was formerly
known as 1994 GT9. It joins the 4659 Roddenberry (named for the show's creator,
Gene Roddenberry) and the 68410 Nichols (for co-star Nichelle Nichols, who
played Lt. Uhura). Other main-belt asteroids have been named for science fiction
luminaries Robert Heinlein and Isaac Asimov.

The renaming of 7307 Takei was approved by the International Astronomical
Union's Committee on Small Body Nomenclature. About 14,000 asteroid names have
been approved by the panel, while about 165,000 asteroids have been identified
and numbered, union spokesman Lars Lindberg Christensen said.

Unlike the myriad Web sites that offer to sell naming rights to stars, the IAU
committee-approved names are actually used by astronomers, said Tom Burbine, the
Mount Holyoke College astronomy professor who proposed the name swap.

"This is the name that will be used for all eternity," he said.

Burbine said he suggested Takei's name in part out of appreciation for his work
with the Japanese American Citizens League and with the gay rights group Human
Rights Campaign. Takei, a spokesman for HRC's Coming Out Project, was cultural
affairs chairman of the JACL, and he was appointed to the Japan-U.S. Friendship
Commission by former President Clinton.

Takei has appeared on NBC's "Heroes" and appears regularly on Howard Stern's
satellite radio show.

Under the committee's policies, whoever discovers an asteroid has 10 years in
which to propose a name. After that, the panel considers other suggestions,
although it warns would-be namers to avoid anything "in questionable taste" and
any names honoring political or military figures sooner than 100 years after
their deaths.
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Re: [meteorite-list] Carnacas smoke-trail photos

2007-10-03 Thread Chris Peterson

Hi Sterling-

I don't place much faith in seismic data as an accurate estimator of 
impact size. It is poor at distinguishing between the energy dissipated 
at impact and the much larger energy dissipated in the atmosphere. And 
there are many uncertainties with respect to the efficiency of energy 
conversion during small impacts. I've got three well accepted models, 
and they vary over more than an order of magnitude in predicting the 
size of impactor in a case like this (but are much closer with respect 
to crater aspect ratio).


Anyway, at this point these calculations are really just useful for 
estimating a reasonable range of possibilities for the impactor. 
Hopefully there is some real data out there somewhere. If all we ever 
have to work with is a little shocked material and a few witness 
reports, we'll probably never know what happened with any precision.


Chris

*
Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com


- Original Message - 
From: "Sterling K. Webb" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: 
Cc: "Chris Peterson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2007 12:45 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Carnacas smoke-trail photos



Chris --

The seismic measurement is of a 20-21 GJ event.
The Russian formulas for scaling crater energy,
developed from their work with the various sizes of
the Sikhote-Alin craters, would make it about 18 GJ.
The ground at Carancas is not merely wet soil, it is
wet rocky soil, a different kettle of resistance. You
can see the strata in the walls of the crater.

You specify a 5 GJ event, but your 10 ton and
1500 m/s example would have 11.25 GJ, not the
5 GJ you specifiy. Even a 5 GJ event would be
500 joules per gram of meteorite when it only
takes 100 joules per gram to powder even harder
terrestrial rock. The actual energy of the 10 ton,
1500 m/s example would be 1125 joules per gram
of meteorite, very close to the energy required to
completely melt ten tons of rock.

Of course, that's assuming all the energy is released
within the impactor and so, is only true for the leading
portion of the impactor. As the crater evolves, it takes
its share of the energy away.

The heat of vaporization for most earthly rocks is
around 18,000 joules per gram of rock. That's the
figure used to calculate vaporization for underground
bomb blasts. Silica is quite tough; it takes 22,000
joules per gram. Meteoritic material with a lot of
dissolved iron would also be hard to vaporize, but
after much Googling I can't find a value, so I will
be scientific and assume it's similar to the terrestrial
average. (Anybody know the actual figure?)

To be vaporized by a 21-22 GJ impact, a one ton impactor
would need ~6500 m/s impact velocity. In fact, for any
rock impactor to be vaporized, it needs to convert 18,000
joules of KE to heat for each gram, so roughly 6000 m/s
is the speed needed to vaporize any rock on impact,
regardless of its size. That's a high velocity to get all the
way to the surface.


Sterling K. Webb


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Re: [meteorite-list] Legal issues concerning Mike Farmer

2007-10-03 Thread Dave
Randall,

After all the personal attacks on Mike and his wife (that was TOTALLY uncalled 
for) it's too late for you to claim the moral high ground.  You lost that 
battle.

You are quite transparent and your motives quite clear.  Your comments are all 
self-serving and the bottom line is... you only care about YOU.

Dave
 

>From: "Dr. Richard Daniels" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Date: 2007/10/03 Wed AM 06:09:41 CDT
>To: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
>Subject: [meteorite-list] Legal issues concerning Mike Farmer

>Mike has publically accused me of commiting a crime and attempting to
>ruin my professional standing in a community of professionals by
>sending e-mails to a United States audience of professional people on
>a United States server. This is considered slander. I believe American
>laws apply regardless of where I reside. I am still an American
>citizen.  Mr. Farmer can expect a summons when the lawyers have
>finished their legal research. Additionally, I will start legal action
>here in Peru for the crimes I believe that he comitted. Since he
>quelled my efforts to save the crater and meteorite by his actions, I
>am redirecting my efforts to this legal issue. To all of the following
>statements I have proof or a high degree of proof.
>
>
>Crime #1 tresspassing
>Failure to ask the owner's permission to trespass is considered a
>crime. I had negotiated to purchase the land the crater surrounding
>the crater, but not the crater itself in the interest of science. The
>land owner and I agreed to the price of $25,000. The deal was
>consumated with a hand shake. In Peru as in the United States it is
>considered a legal transaction. And anyone failing to ask permission
>is guilty of tresspassing under property right laws. I believe it is
>common practice for professional meteorite hunters to as permission
>first. I asked permission when I first arrived out of respect. It was
>this statement to Mr. Farmer when I told him I could have had him
>arrested for trespassing. That too is recorded in e-mail
>corrospondence with the list.
>
>
>Crime #2 Buying stolen property
>
>Mr. Farmer knew before-hand the police has meteorites and that these
>meteorite could have been considered stolen under both countries laws.
>A dated e-mail is in possession of the list-members. However, this
>presents a unique situation. After the meteorite struck, people called
>the police thinking that an airplane had crashed. People closest to
>the site started to complain of illness. The police gathered these
>strange gray fragments and took them back to the police station. Seven
>policemen started to complain of the same symptoms. They didn't know
>at the time what these fragments were or how dangerous they might be.
>If it had, in reality, been a nuclear powered satellite (if one even
>exists) these heroic police might be dead by now. It was the
>scientists from the Max Schreir Planetarium in Bolivia that asked the
>police if they could by some stones from them. It's quite possible
>that they sold others to the University of San Augustin in Arequipa,
>Peru.but I am unaware of any transaction. I purchased the large stone
>explaining to the police that I wanted to donate it to scientific
>instutions in Peru and the United States. They sold me a stone. Mr.
>Farmer solicited the police to sell him a stone. To this he has
>already admitted. Since he knew these were stolen from my e-mail. He
>had prior knowledge and was fully aware. To date, Mr. Farmer and I are
>the only two Americans to have stones from this fall.
>
>
>Crime #3 Conspiracy to commit Grand Larceny
>Mr. Farmer made suggestions to currently persons unknown (but will be
>found) of how the meteorite might be extracted at night, privately and
>without government support. This is conspiracy to comit grand larceny.
> His statement was reported to the police by a person of conscience.
>Although these people are poor, they have religion and are basically
>honest.
>
>He essentially admitted to the crime when he made the statement that
>the police wanted him to leave when he had purchased stones from them
>the day before. Mike was the goose that laid the golden egg. The price
>he paid the police has not been determined but it is expected to be
>quite large since the police already had a relative worth of the
>stones.
>
>Sidenote:  If I was a policeman in Desag and a man was paying me money
>for rocks, I would protect this walking ATM and try to keep him safe
>and protected. I would also want to keep him around as long as
>possible.
>
>A bigger part of the problem is that it is believed that he posted
>flyers throughout the town, saying he would pay big money for rocks
>which is a common technique Mr. Farmer uses. His Columbia expedition
>stated that he posted hundreds of flyers. Upon reading the flyers, the
>dirt-poor people of Desaguadero literally ran to the crater to find
>rocks and swamed the scene. He also told people that there was a very
>valuable meteorite worth thousands and th

[meteorite-list] Pultusk Wanted

2007-10-03 Thread MARK BOSTICK

Hello everyone,

I am looking for 100-200 grams of Pultusk.  Please e-mail privately price 
and descriptions.


Clear Skies,
Mark Bostick
Kansas Meteorite Society
www.meteoritearticles.com


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Re: [meteorite-list] Legal issues concerning Mike Farmer

2007-10-03 Thread MARK BOSTICK

Randall,

I think you should stay away from the bottle and not pretend to be a lawyer.

Mark


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[meteorite-list] Libyan Desert Glass For Sell

2007-10-03 Thread meteorite

Dear List Member,



I have an important Libyan glass lot for sell, approx 13 kg or 13000 Grams

The large one is approx 2700 Grams.

http://lorenzo.lorenzo.free.fr/ebayart/verre_Libyque/



If someone interested to buy, please contact me off list and let me know 
your best offer.




Don't hesitate to contact me if any questions or requests.

Best regards,

Sincerely.

Arnaud VB

IMCA# 2093


---
E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel. 06 13 24 09 84
---

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Re: [meteorite-list] Dr. Richard Daniels is a pseudonym for RandallGregory, my way of not asking people to post for me

2007-10-03 Thread Martin Altmann
Mr. Randall,

I think I'm not the only one on that list here, who has the feeling, that
your posts are highly inconsistent.

First we could read from you, that you're not sure about, that there is a
main mass some down below in the soil at all and that the crater/pit should
be preserved.
We read, that the poor locals should profit from the finds made there, that
all fragments collected and sold by locals without agreement of the land
owner are stolen goods and how immoral it is to sell such goods on ebay.
And that the best solution would be, that the meteorites and the crater
would be property of the Peruvian state as national treasure + that the
Peruvian scientists would be experienced enough to handle the case.

In the same mails and later we read, that you not only have bought some
material at a not directly generous price, but that you bought it from the
local authorities, who had confiscated the material from people, who
collected it illegally (according your own words).
To give money to authorities to obtain secured material - hence either
property of state or in custody of the state is a simple act of corruption.

And contradicting your own moral standards you started immediately to fence
those stones via ebay and to dealers like Matteo.

After on the list was discussed, that there is a probability that the main
mass could exist below the crater and Farmer/Karl/Ward travelled to the
site, you showed an immediate eagerness to lead an initiative to excavate
it.

Now, when they entered the scene offering the locals - remember your own
mails, who are poor and should profit from that situation - a much higher
and adequate price for the material, which they collected than you did with
your (seen from the collectors point of view) ridiculous price,
you seem not to be delighted.

And furthermore you condemn, that they sensitized the population about the
importance of that case, in giving them a more adequate imagination that the
possible main mass is more important than the crater and that it has a high
value, which lead to the exact result, which you always wanted from the
beginning on, but which you weren't able to accomplish,
that the importance and the basic necessity to act was finally recognized on
a national level. Instead to be happy about that, and also that the area is
now protected by police from further "looting", you call it now an
"irreparable damage".

And with all respect, the questions about meteorites, you posed here on the
list, give not directly an impression, that you're an expert in meteoritics,
neither do I see, why you should be entitled for the " all your work at
preservation" and not rather the Peruvian scientists, who - at least you
expressed it so in one of your early mails - are in your opinion
sufficiently trained to investigate that fall.

So even if we let that strange issues from the private mails Farmer
published here aside,
the observer will see a remarkable bigotry in your emails and will most
probably come to the conclusion, that your motivation isn't morale but
profane greed.

Regards,
Martin



-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Im Auftrag von Dr.
Richard Daniels
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 3. Oktober 2007 11:46
An: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Betreff: [meteorite-list] Dr. Richard Daniels is a pseudonym for
RandallGregory, my way of not asking people to post for me

XXX,

This is critical, I'll try to post but if it doesn't make it could you
send it to someone that will post. I know you want to stay out of the
middle.

I reviewed the report sent in by Mr. Farmer today and then I asked my
Peruvian wife to her to call my friends in Desaguadero to find out
what the situation is. I read Mike's field report and he had mentioned
that they started to pump out the water in the crater and I was
curious to know if they found the meteorite.

This is the story as my wife is relating to me after she talked to my
friend. Major Victor Anaya Barrientos of the Peruvian National Police
located in the town of Desaguadero.

Apparently, Mike and his associated went to the town of Desaguadero
and used their method of posting flyers and soliciting citizens to
sell them meteorites.They told people that the meteorite pieces were
very very valuable and they would pay good money for any samples. I
guess they made offers on a per gram basis that sent these people into
a frenzy. They never went to the municipality and asked for any kind
of permission. And they never made any contacts with scientists or
researchers in Peru. Local citizens swarmed to the site to look for
pieces and almost caused a riot. Apparently, the Spanish speaking
person with Mike told the people of the community that there was a big
meteorite in the hole and it was worth alot of money. This is the
equivalent of starting a revolution. The people gathered at the
municipality demanding that the government extract the meteorite. The
mayor of the city complied under duress, and starte

[meteorite-list] Legal issues concerning Mike Farmer

2007-10-03 Thread Dr. Richard Daniels
Mike has publically accused me of commiting a crime and attempting to
ruin my professional standing in a community of professionals by
sending e-mails to a United States audience of professional people on
a United States server. This is considered slander. I believe American
laws apply regardless of where I reside. I am still an American
citizen.  Mr. Farmer can expect a summons when the lawyers have
finished their legal research. Additionally, I will start legal action
here in Peru for the crimes I believe that he comitted. Since he
quelled my efforts to save the crater and meteorite by his actions, I
am redirecting my efforts to this legal issue. To all of the following
statements I have proof or a high degree of proof.


Crime #1 tresspassing
Failure to ask the owner's permission to trespass is considered a
crime. I had negotiated to purchase the land the crater surrounding
the crater, but not the crater itself in the interest of science. The
land owner and I agreed to the price of $25,000. The deal was
consumated with a hand shake. In Peru as in the United States it is
considered a legal transaction. And anyone failing to ask permission
is guilty of tresspassing under property right laws. I believe it is
common practice for professional meteorite hunters to as permission
first. I asked permission when I first arrived out of respect. It was
this statement to Mr. Farmer when I told him I could have had him
arrested for trespassing. That too is recorded in e-mail
corrospondence with the list.


Crime #2 Buying stolen property

Mr. Farmer knew before-hand the police has meteorites and that these
meteorite could have been considered stolen under both countries laws.
A dated e-mail is in possession of the list-members. However, this
presents a unique situation. After the meteorite struck, people called
the police thinking that an airplane had crashed. People closest to
the site started to complain of illness. The police gathered these
strange gray fragments and took them back to the police station. Seven
policemen started to complain of the same symptoms. They didn't know
at the time what these fragments were or how dangerous they might be.
If it had, in reality, been a nuclear powered satellite (if one even
exists) these heroic police might be dead by now. It was the
scientists from the Max Schreir Planetarium in Bolivia that asked the
police if they could by some stones from them. It's quite possible
that they sold others to the University of San Augustin in Arequipa,
Peru.but I am unaware of any transaction. I purchased the large stone
explaining to the police that I wanted to donate it to scientific
instutions in Peru and the United States. They sold me a stone. Mr.
Farmer solicited the police to sell him a stone. To this he has
already admitted. Since he knew these were stolen from my e-mail. He
had prior knowledge and was fully aware. To date, Mr. Farmer and I are
the only two Americans to have stones from this fall.


Crime #3 Conspiracy to commit Grand Larceny
Mr. Farmer made suggestions to currently persons unknown (but will be
found) of how the meteorite might be extracted at night, privately and
without government support. This is conspiracy to comit grand larceny.
 His statement was reported to the police by a person of conscience.
Although these people are poor, they have religion and are basically
honest.

He essentially admitted to the crime when he made the statement that
the police wanted him to leave when he had purchased stones from them
the day before. Mike was the goose that laid the golden egg. The price
he paid the police has not been determined but it is expected to be
quite large since the police already had a relative worth of the
stones.

Sidenote:  If I was a policeman in Desag and a man was paying me money
for rocks, I would protect this walking ATM and try to keep him safe
and protected. I would also want to keep him around as long as
possible.

A bigger part of the problem is that it is believed that he posted
flyers throughout the town, saying he would pay big money for rocks
which is a common technique Mr. Farmer uses. His Columbia expedition
stated that he posted hundreds of flyers. Upon reading the flyers, the
dirt-poor people of Desaguadero literally ran to the crater to find
rocks and swamed the scene. He also told people that there was a very
valuable meteorite worth thousands and thousands of dollars buried in
the crater. This in turn caused other people to protest the municpal
offices, demanding the government dig out the meteorite. The mayor of
Desaguadero tried to comply with the wishes of the people. Especially
since this is an election year. It was a crude attempt at best, but
nevertheless an attempt.

This, almost full-scale uprising and protest drew the attention of the
people of Puno. The regional government petitioned the Ministry of the
Interior to declare the area government property. The property is now
cordoned off and police guards posted. Last night on th

[meteorite-list] Rocks From Space Picture of the Day - October 3, 2007

2007-10-03 Thread SPACEROCKSINC
http://www.spacerocksinc.com/October_3_2007.html









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Re: [meteorite-list] Carnacas smoke-trail photos

2007-10-03 Thread Jeff Grossman

There is no such naming convention.

Jeff

At 01:03 AM 10/3/2007, Sterling K. Webb wrote:

The name of the village closest to the
crater site is CARANCAS, not Carnacas.
Under the naming convention, the nearest
named human settlement would end up
as the name of the meteorite when all the
dust settles, no?

Let's all practice: CA - RAN - CAS.


Sterling K. Webb
-
- Original Message -
From: "Michael L Blood" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Michael Farmer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Chris Peterson"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Meteorite List"

Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 11:33 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Carnacas smoke-trail photos


Perhaps I am dumber than a bag of hammers, but
I am confused Are Carnacas and Titicaca two separate falls
Or one in the same? Is anyone else confused on this issue?
Michael

on 10/2/07 5:59 PM, Michael Farmer at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> Chris, it is a hell of a crater, at least 13 meters in
> diameter, more than one meter of uplift, looks
> identical to Meteor Crater to me, on a much smaller
> scale.
> There in fact does seem to be shocked material at the
> crater, I found only inside and just outside the
> crater, large pieces of compacted sandstone, yet there
> is no sandstone there, it seems to have solidified on
> the impact, everything else is more like soft mud.
> Large, and I mean larger pieces of sod, weighing at
> least 40 or 50 kilograms were thrown more than 50-100
> meters, and smaller dirt clod debris thrown up to 15o
> meters in all directions. This is a serious impact, I
> mean you can call it what you want, but with the
> uplift, the incredible debris field thrown to all
> sides, the huge size, and volume of the crater itself,
> certainly leads me to believe that the mass weighed
> many tons and is obviously in the hole under some
> meters of fallback debris. The locals report mushroom
> cloud lingered for more than a hour.
> As far as more pieces, this meterite came in over lake
> Titikaka, and if you have never seen this lake, it is
> HUGE! I would guess that as fragil as the meteorite
> is, that tons of debris fell off but would most likely
> have all fallen into the lake, or perhaps some on the
> mountains just inside of Bolivia. It is not populated
> there, and I assume from talking to most witnesses,
> that the large main mass, which was a massive ball of
> fire much larger and brighter than the Sun, caught
> everyones attention pretty well, and would be so
> bright that smaller pieces would be drowned out by the
> intensity of the main mass. That is what I think
> happened, surely many more pieces broke off but from
> where the main mass hit, back down the flightpath is
> nothing but swamps and high mountains for about 10
> miles, then 15 miles of lake. Perfect for most
> material to be lost.
> Michael Farmer
> --- Chris Peterson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> What remains to be determined is if this is actually
>> a crater, or just a
>> big splash. In the first case, some shocked material
>> should show up, and
>> I think it's likely that nothing is left in the
>> bottom. If there really
>> is a big meteorite at the bottom, then this probably
>> isn't a crater in
>> the usual sense (that is, produced by a large energy
>> release as the
>> parent body explodes/vaporizes).
>>
>> I don't believe I've seen anything credible to
>> suggest that the water
>> was actually boiling or steaming. It doesn't take
>> much energy to make a
>> hole this size in soft ground- probably around 100
>> kg TNT equivalent.
>> And that's not enough to heat up that much water
>> very much. So I expect
>> that any apparent bubbling was nothing more than an
>> effect of ground
>> water filling in the new hole.
>>
>> If the recovered material is shocked fragments, it
>> may be structurally
>> quite different from the parent body.
>>
>> Chris
>>
>> *
>> Chris L Peterson
>> Cloudbait Observatory
>> http://www.cloudbait.com
>>
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> From: "Darren Garrison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> To: 
>> Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 5:37 PM
>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Carnacas smoke-trail
>> photos
>>
>>
>>> On Tue, 2 Oct 2007 15:54:57 -0700 (PDT), you
>> wrote:
>>>
 Is it indeed possible that a mass of say 3-7 tons
 could cause such intense heat on impact? We think
>> that
 the compression of the soil, in an instant to many
 meteors deep could also cause intense heating.
 Every person we interviewed decribed boiling
>> water,
 lots of steam, and horrible sulfer type smell. The
>>>
>>> What I wonder is if maybe the pressure/heat could
>> have caused
>>> dissolved gases to
>>> bubble out from the water?  So it might not have
>> been at a boiling
>>> temperature,
>>> but still bubbling/steaming?  Too bad we don't
>> have samples of the
>>> groundwater
>>> and soil from the area to see if there is anything
>> weird/extensively
>>> poluted
>>> ab

[meteorite-list] Dr. Richard Daniels is a pseudonym for Randall Gregory, my way of not asking people to post for me

2007-10-03 Thread Dr. Richard Daniels
XXX,

This is critical, I'll try to post but if it doesn't make it could you
send it to someone that will post. I know you want to stay out of the
middle.

I reviewed the report sent in by Mr. Farmer today and then I asked my
Peruvian wife to her to call my friends in Desaguadero to find out
what the situation is. I read Mike's field report and he had mentioned
that they started to pump out the water in the crater and I was
curious to know if they found the meteorite.

This is the story as my wife is relating to me after she talked to my
friend. Major Victor Anaya Barrientos of the Peruvian National Police
located in the town of Desaguadero.

Apparently, Mike and his associated went to the town of Desaguadero
and used their method of posting flyers and soliciting citizens to
sell them meteorites.They told people that the meteorite pieces were
very very valuable and they would pay good money for any samples. I
guess they made offers on a per gram basis that sent these people into
a frenzy. They never went to the municipality and asked for any kind
of permission. And they never made any contacts with scientists or
researchers in Peru. Local citizens swarmed to the site to look for
pieces and almost caused a riot. Apparently, the Spanish speaking
person with Mike told the people of the community that there was a big
meteorite in the hole and it was worth alot of money. This is the
equivalent of starting a revolution. The people gathered at the
municipality demanding that the government extract the meteorite. The
mayor of the city complied under duress, and started to pump out the
water. Meanwhile, news of this revolution went from the local to the
national level.

Local people were upset as they expected the city to find this million
dollar meteorite that Mike and his friends told them. This caused so
many problems with the municipality that the Minister of Interior at
the national level has issued an order to close the site declaring
that the site government property. The site now has a 24 hour police
guard and everyone is forbidden from entering the site. Mike never
realized the consequences of his actions. The reason he and his
friends were harassed was the police believed that they were
"trafficantes" or traffickers. The police were entirely correct in
their assessment, and gave a message to Mike that they wanted him and
his friends to leave.

The damage he caused might be irreparable. I intend on visiting the
site in a short time to see what the situation is and report back to
the list. I will try to work with my colleagues in Peru and Bolivia,
the Universities to organize an effort to extract the meteorite as a
National Treasure for the people of Peru. I believe this meteorite can
be still be saved and the crater preserved. But now that the national
government is involved, all my work at preservation might have been in
vain.

Right now, I am furious with Mike and his actions. No respect for
people. I am also deeply offended when he called the Mayor and other
Peruvian scientists stupid. Here is a man with a high school education
calling college educated professionals stupid.  He called Desaguadero
a "craphole". Yes, it is a very poor city high in the Andes and is no
way plush as the area of Tuscon he lives in. He went in with his
greedy little plan and hurt alot of people, while never trying to
understand the culture or the people.  Just criticism and a ton of
negativity toward everything. The Peruvians are good, decent,
hard-working, and religious people and I happy and proud to be
associated with them. Besides the damage he caused in Desaguadero, I
believe he tarnished the image of meteoritic community.

It really makes me think, What is the definition of a "professional"
meteorite hunter?

I take responsibility for everything I say in this post and I am
expecting criticism. After I read Mike's field report, I sent him an
e-mail. I won't post it to the list, but it is available to anyone
that wants to read it.

I am now appealing to the meteoritic community of scientists to help
me at a national level so our government can contact and assist the
government of Peru in extracting this meteorite. Every meteorite has
the potiential to harbor organic compounds or fossilized remains and
should be studied.  Give me leads or referrals is all I ask.


Randall
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[meteorite-list] AD: ebay auctions ending soon!

2007-10-03 Thread Sergey Vasiliev
Hello List!

I have some ebay auctions ending in a few hours:

*** RARE!!! Meteorite Northeast Africa 001 (Lunar) ***:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190156952845

*** Meteorite Yurtuk (AHOW) - 0.087g ***:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=190156952895

*** Meteorite Dar al Gani 400 (ALUN-A) - 0.148g***:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=190156953196

*** Meteorite Dar al Gani 400 (ALUN-A) - 0.632g***:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=190156971747

There are more auctions. Nice Sikhote-Alin fragments and other meteorites.

All can be seen here:
http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZsvassiliev


Thanks!
Sergey

-
Sergey Vasiliev
U Dalnice 839,
Prague 5, 15500
Czech Republic
--
http://www.sv-meteorites.com
http://impactites.net
http://systematic-mineralogy.com

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[meteorite-list] Carefully read - Threats from Mr. Gregory then drawn your own conclusions

2007-10-03 Thread Dr. Richard Daniels
Matteo,

Please post. Thanks again.

Randall


BTW, what size stone would you like?
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[meteorite-list] Determination of a main mass at Carancas

2007-10-03 Thread Dr. Richard Daniels
Drill some holes using portable wide bore angular well drilling or
core sampling equipment, then lower a submersible fluxgate
magnetometer and take readings. I read in Mr. Gregory's post's that
some of this meteorite dust was collected with magnets. Therefore, the
main mass should have a strong magnetic field.
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