Re: [meteorite-list] R: help me in understand analysis

[Adam Hupe via Meteorite-list]

In real estate, it is called doing your own due diligence.  I am simply 
trying to assist by providing the tools necessary for prospective buyers 
to make an informed purchasing decision.


You will find that a lot of reputable dealers and high end collectors 
have left the meteorite market due to the staggering amount of unproven 
and unclassified amount of material interfering with legitimate 
offerings. It is more difficult then ever navigating through all the 
listings to find valid material with perfect provenance.


Speaking of real estate, I need to work on something productive like 
property descriptions instead of creating a dealer snitch list.


I wish everybody the best in future acquisitions,

Adam



On 10/9/2017 3:34 PM, John Lutzon wrote:


Adam,
I was truly hoping to join your wagon train by virtue of your great
post regarding what to look out for in Ebay sales. I believe it may
have helped many people to not make a bad buy.

But now, again, you're losing me--again you state that you are aware
of 108 bad sales divided by the amount of Dealers and you know who
these sellers are -- but you're not tellin'--- smart !

And, you state that the Met-Bull will produce these bad dealers, by what means
do you mean?? Deduction ??

If you indeed want to help people Not make a bad deal--then why are you
basically making them jump through hoops. You are not helping anyone
by keeping this information to yourself. Either Name Them or quit writing
about this subjectit's doing no-one any good.

Get back on trackyou have alot to offer this community

John


- Original Message -
From: "Adam Hupe via Meteorite-list" 
To: "metlist" 
Sent: Monday, October 09, 2017 5:36 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] R: help me in understand analysis



I have been getting several requests to name the dealers engaged in less
than honest business practices.  I have publicly called out those who
violated the sanctity of meteorites I was involved with in the past by
self-pairing and piggy-backing material I placed on the market. At one
point, it was almost a full-time job.  I am not interested in creating a
"Dealer hall Of Shame" list however you can put one together yourself
with a little bit of work. You would be surprised at the number of
dealers who are engaged in deceptive trade practices.

I found 108 violations out of the 265 lunar meteorites currently listed
on eBay by simply cross referencing the Meteoritical Bulletin.  There
are a lot more than 108 if unclassified material with no numbers is
taken into account.

For NWA material, the Meteortical Bulletin will assist in providing you
with a list of dealers to avoid.  Carefully write down the NWA numbers
in question and enter them into the Meteoritical Bulletin search text field.

Link to the meteoritical Bulletin search page:

https://www.lpi.usra.edu/meteor/

Things to look out for in the bulletin.

If there is more material by weight available on the market than what is
listed in the bulletin, then there is fraud taking place.

If the number of complete stones listed in the Bulletin under a
particular NWA number is exceeded, then you are looking at another case
of self-pairing which is also fraud.

If you are not provided with a complete chain of custody back to the
persons name in the bulletin who submitted the meteorite for study, then
it is not worth pursuing.

If you type in the NWA number or name and no data shows up, it means the
stone is not official and has not been approved.

It is interesting to see who made the list of dealers to avoid!


Happy hunting,

Adam






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Re: [meteorite-list] R: help me in understand analysis

[John Lutzon via Meteorite-list]

Adam,
I was truly hoping to join your wagon train by virtue of your great 
post regarding what to look out for in Ebay sales. I believe it may 
have helped many people to not make a bad buy.

But now, again, you're losing me--again you state that you are aware
of 108 bad sales divided by the amount of Dealers and you know who
these sellers are -- but you're not tellin'--- smart !

And, you state that the Met-Bull will produce these bad dealers, by what means
do you mean?? Deduction ??

If you indeed want to help people Not make a bad deal--then why are you 
basically making them jump through hoops. You are not helping anyone
by keeping this information to yourself. Either Name Them or quit writing
about this subjectit's doing no-one any good.

Get back on trackyou have alot to offer this community

John


- Original Message - 
From: "Adam Hupe via Meteorite-list" 
To: "metlist" 
Sent: Monday, October 09, 2017 5:36 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] R: help me in understand analysis



I have been getting several requests to name the dealers engaged in less 
than honest business practices.  I have publicly called out those who 
violated the sanctity of meteorites I was involved with in the past by 
self-pairing and piggy-backing material I placed on the market. At one 
point, it was almost a full-time job.  I am not interested in creating a 
"Dealer hall Of Shame" list however you can put one together yourself 
with a little bit of work. You would be surprised at the number of 
dealers who are engaged in deceptive trade practices.

I found 108 violations out of the 265 lunar meteorites currently listed 
on eBay by simply cross referencing the Meteoritical Bulletin.  There 
are a lot more than 108 if unclassified material with no numbers is 
taken into account.

For NWA material, the Meteortical Bulletin will assist in providing you 
with a list of dealers to avoid.  Carefully write down the NWA numbers 
in question and enter them into the Meteoritical Bulletin search text field.

Link to the meteoritical Bulletin search page:

https://www.lpi.usra.edu/meteor/

Things to look out for in the bulletin.

If there is more material by weight available on the market than what is 
listed in the bulletin, then there is fraud taking place.

If the number of complete stones listed in the Bulletin under a 
particular NWA number is exceeded, then you are looking at another case 
of self-pairing which is also fraud.

If you are not provided with a complete chain of custody back to the 
persons name in the bulletin who submitted the meteorite for study, then 
it is not worth pursuing.

If you type in the NWA number or name and no data shows up, it means the 
stone is not official and has not been approved.

It is interesting to see who made the list of dealers to avoid!


Happy hunting,

Adam






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Re: [meteorite-list] R: help me in understand analysis

[Adam Hupe via Meteorite-list]

I have been getting several requests to name the dealers engaged in less 
than honest business practices.  I have publicly called out those who 
violated the sanctity of meteorites I was involved with in the past by 
self-pairing and piggy-backing material I placed on the market. At one 
point, it was almost a full-time job.  I am not interested in creating a 
"Dealer hall Of Shame" list however you can put one together yourself 
with a little bit of work. You would be surprised at the number of 
dealers who are engaged in deceptive trade practices.


I found 108 violations out of the 265 lunar meteorites currently listed 
on eBay by simply cross referencing the Meteoritical Bulletin.  There 
are a lot more than 108 if unclassified material with no numbers is 
taken into account.


For NWA material, the Meteortical Bulletin will assist in providing you 
with a list of dealers to avoid.  Carefully write down the NWA numbers 
in question and enter them into the Meteoritical Bulletin search text field.


Link to the meteoritical Bulletin search page:

https://www.lpi.usra.edu/meteor/

Things to look out for in the bulletin.

If there is more material by weight available on the market than what is 
listed in the bulletin, then there is fraud taking place.


If the number of complete stones listed in the Bulletin under a 
particular NWA number is exceeded, then you are looking at another case 
of self-pairing which is also fraud.


If you are not provided with a complete chain of custody back to the 
persons name in the bulletin who submitted the meteorite for study, then 
it is not worth pursuing.


If you type in the NWA number or name and no data shows up, it means the 
stone is not official and has not been approved.


It is interesting to see who made the list of dealers to avoid!


Happy hunting,

Adam






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Re: [meteorite-list] Speaking of 'wrongs!.......

[John Lutzon via Meteorite-list]

I have the capability to zoom in Macro close and, yes, I did find the 
little "made in china" sticker--they forgot to remove..

John 

- Original Message - 
From: "Anne Black via Meteorite-list" 
To: 
Sent: Monday, October 09, 2017 2:50 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Speaking of 'wrongs!...


This link was forwarded to me with a question:

Do you see a lot of real meteorites there?
http://english.sina.com/china/e/2016-04-07/doc-ifxrcizs6965189.shtml 

or there?
http://xw.kunming.cn/a/2017-04/27/content_4601780.htm


Anne M. Black
IMPACTIKA.com

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[meteorite-list] Speaking of 'wrongs!.......

[Anne Black via Meteorite-list]

This link was forwarded to me with a question:

Do you see a lot of real meteorites there?
http://english.sina.com/china/e/2016-04-07/doc-ifxrcizs6965189.shtml 

or there?
http://xw.kunming.cn/a/2017-04/27/content_4601780.htm


Anne M. Black
IMPACTIKA.com

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Re: [meteorite-list] R: help me in understand analysis

[Adam Hupe via Meteorite-list]

It is up to dealers to prove what they are selling is legitimate, not 
collectors/buyers after the transaction.  Why should a buyer have to ask 
for provenance and the chain of custody directly to the person named in 
a Meteoritical Bulletin? It is up to dealers to provide this information 
up front.  Who in their right mind would pay top dollar for untested and 
unclassified stones being put on the market as planetary pieces?


If a dealer is too lazy to follow protocol then why should he/she be 
rewarded? There is no value added by simply reselling untested stones 
that are accompanied with stolen nomenclature and Meteortical Bulletin 
entries.


Professionals see it as there is no such thing as an unclassified lunar. 
 It is either lunar or it is not.  There is no gray area. That is like 
somebody placing quartz (Herkimer Diamonds) on the market and trying to 
sell them as an unclassified natural diamonds. There are over 167,000 
loose diamonds being offered on eBay.  Guess how many are real?  Most 
educated prospective buyers will not consider a stone without GIA 
certification.  Buyers learned the hard way when spending thousands of 
dollars for worthless paste.


I see terrestrial breccias being offered up as lunar material on a 
consistent bases thus the acid test. If it fizzes or you cannot get a 
direct chain of custody to the classifying laboratory, you may consider 
asking for an immediate refund.  Save your hard earned money.  There is 
something to be learned from other markets where buyers have been stiffed.


Adam







On 10/9/2017 2:55 AM, Graham Ensor wrote:
I'm afraid it works the other way round too Adam...you would have to 
have a piece analysed by an expert to say what you are saying rather 
than just look at the pieces to see and conclude what they are. Every 
single piece of my lunar has been to the leading lab specializing in 
meteorites in the UK and been recorded, weighed and analysed to show it 
is lunar. I have the write up and science write up submitted for 
classification if you wish to see it. It is likely part of this new 
bigger find this year and matches the other material around that I see 
for what that is worth.


Which reputable dealers are you accusing of selling the lunar material 
you think is not lunar by just looking at it? I'm sure you should pass 
that information on to help the community.




On Mon, Oct 9, 2017 at 1:33 AM, Adam Hupe via Meteorite-list 
> wrote:


A lot of the garbage being sold as lunar meteorites by so-called
reputable dealers will not even pass the fizz test.

http://geology.com/minerals/acid-test.shtml


Collectors are being fleeced out of thousands of dollars by
terrestrial limestone breccias, some of which can be found in the
Atlas Mountains near an impact structure. I would avoid or ask for a
refund on any material that fizzes on a cut surface! I remember
seeing the same crustless, caliche-rich material offered up at the
Tucson Gem and Mineral show several years ago for $50.00/gram. Now
it is being offered on eBay and other venues due to a somewhat
similar appearance to genuine Lunar meteorites. I do not know if
refunds were given to those who purchase this terrestrial material
in the past or not.

This is but one example of why all stones suspected as being
planetary should be formally tested and classified.

If in doubt, throw it out or demand a refund.


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Re: [meteorite-list] It's Been a While

[Ruben Garcia via Meteorite-list]

I hope it cuts well too.  You should post a link to your sphere
collection, it's really cool!

On Sun, Oct 8, 2017 at 8:31 PM, bobadebt--- via Meteorite-list
 wrote:
> Hello to everyone
>
> I think the last time I posted was around 2014.
>
> Been real busy with work and other things.
>
> But I have been actively trying to grow my collection of 50mm Meteorite
> Spheres.
>
> I am up to 20 and I may have finally found a Mesosiderite that is large
> enough to produce another sphere for my collection so hopefully it will be
> number 21
>
> Ruben hooked me up with a 1500 gram Bondoc and I look forward to it’s
> arrival.
>
> I just hope it cuts well.
>
>
> __
>
> Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and the
> Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
> https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>



-- 



Rock On!

Ruben Garcia

www.RubenMrMeteoriteGarcia.com
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[meteorite-list] meteorites and geology

[Abdelfattah Gharrad via Meteorite-list]

Dear Lists, 
please clarify the relationship between geology and meteorites. 
Thanks,Abdelfattah.

 
|  | Garanti sans virus. www.avast.com  |

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[meteorite-list] It's Been a While

[bobadebt--- via Meteorite-list]

Hello to everyone

I think the last time I posted was around 2014.

Been real busy with work and other things.

But I have been actively trying to grow my collection of 50mm Meteorite Spheres.

I am up to 20 and I may have finally found a Mesosiderite that is large enough 
to produce another sphere for my collection so hopefully it will be number 21

Ruben hooked me up with a 1500 gram Bondoc and I look forward to it’s arrival.

I just hope it cuts well.
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[meteorite-list] Peekskill at 25 ./ October 9, 1992

[Darryl Pitt via Meteorite-list]

Hi, 

Today marks the 25th Anniversary of the Peeskskill event — which to this day 
still showcases the most video captures of its fireball from more different 
municipalities than any other meteorite….before it sliced through a Chevy 
Malibu in Peekskill, New York. 


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AOU3r3Q4-eY

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Re: [meteorite-list] R: help me in understand analysis

[Graham Ensor via Meteorite-list]

I'm afraid it works the other way round too Adam...you would have to have a
piece analysed by an expert to say what you are saying rather than just
look at the pieces to see and conclude what they are. Every single piece of
my lunar has been to the leading lab specializing in meteorites in the UK
and been recorded, weighed and analysed to show it is lunar. I have the
write up and science write up submitted for classification if you wish to
see it. It is likely part of this new bigger find this year and matches the
other material around that I see for what that is worth.

Which reputable dealers are you accusing of selling the lunar material you
think is not lunar by just looking at it? I'm sure you should pass that
information on to help the community.



On Mon, Oct 9, 2017 at 1:33 AM, Adam Hupe via Meteorite-list <
meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com> wrote:

> A lot of the garbage being sold as lunar meteorites by so-called reputable
> dealers will not even pass the fizz test.
>
> http://geology.com/minerals/acid-test.shtml
>
> Collectors are being fleeced out of thousands of dollars by terrestrial
> limestone breccias, some of which can be found in the Atlas Mountains near
> an impact structure. I would avoid or ask for a refund on any material that
> fizzes on a cut surface! I remember seeing the same crustless, caliche-rich
> material offered up at the Tucson Gem and Mineral show several years ago
> for $50.00/gram. Now it is being offered on eBay and other venues due to a
> somewhat similar appearance to genuine Lunar meteorites. I do not know if
> refunds were given to those who purchase this terrestrial material in the
> past or not.
>
> This is but one example of why all stones suspected as being planetary
> should be formally tested and classified.
>
> If in doubt, throw it out or demand a refund.
>
>
> __
>
> Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and the
> Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
> https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
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[meteorite-list] AD - Ebay: RARE METEORITE SLICES AND HIGH QUALITY THIN SECTIONS

[Peter Marmet via Meteorite-list]

Hello all,

just a quick note that I have a couple of very nice high quality meteorite thin 
sections on ebay, ending in a few hours.

The thin sections were made by very experienced professional thin section 
makers.

All but one sections started at just $1.99 !

In addition I have some great meteorite slices!

Please have a look:

goo.gl/NaU9R5 

Cheers,
Peter

Peter Marmet - IMCA #2747
Bern, Switzerland
http://www.marmet-meteorites.com __

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[meteorite-list] Meteorite Picture of the Day

[Paul Swartz via Meteorite-list]

No picture was submitted for today.

http://www.tucsonmeteorites.com/mpodmain.asp?DD=10/09/2017
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